Microsoft Lumia 950 XL review(theverge.com)
theverge.com
Microsoft Lumia 950 XL review
http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/18/10571504/microsoft-lumia-950-xl-review
57 comments
Universal apps and the same operating system across all devices is surely the future.
Not until we find a UI that rules all categories. Touch apps are typically bad desktop apps, desktop apps are typically bad touch apps. As respectively shown by Windows 8 on desktops and Microsoft Office on the original Surface RT. WIMP is probably still the best paradigm for desktops.
I do agree that platform fragmentation is bad. Apple has traditionally been pretty good at this (at least it's the same language and largely the same or comparable Frameworks).
Not until we find a UI that rules all categories. Touch apps are typically bad desktop apps, desktop apps are typically bad touch apps. As respectively shown by Windows 8 on desktops and Microsoft Office on the original Surface RT. WIMP is probably still the best paradigm for desktops.
I do agree that platform fragmentation is bad. Apple has traditionally been pretty good at this (at least it's the same language and largely the same or comparable Frameworks).
Universal apps have different UIs for different categories. You can put a phone UI, a tablet UI, and a desktop UI into one app.
"Fragmented platforms is a programmers hell. Universal apps and the same operating system across all devices is surely the future."
That's not going to happen, sorry. Windows and OSX for the desktop and Android and iOS for mobile devices is how it's going to stay for a quite some time.
That's not going to happen, sorry. Windows and OSX for the desktop and Android and iOS for mobile devices is how it's going to stay for a quite some time.
Android and iOS are already trying to be better desktop OSes, and Ubuntu and Windows are trying to be better phone OSes. I don't think it's going to take that long to bridge the gap.
It's not up to the platform whether it gets marketshare or not. It's up to the market.
For Desktops and Phones the winners have already been chosen.
For Desktops and Phones the winners have already been chosen.
People get new phones every 2-4 years, and carriers are pushing people to upgrade even faster. If there's a really compelling new platform, we could see a huge shift on that time scale.
No Operating System can be that compelling to prompt such a dramatic shift in four years. People aren't really compelled by such things.
> As a developer I like what MS is doing. Fragmented platforms is a programmers hell. Universal apps and the same operating system across all devices is surely the future.
Whether it is or not (I don't think so) that's not really what Microsoft is doing. You can't just download Windows 10 software and run it on Windows 10 Mobile.
Nor should you be able to. Phone software should be written for a phone. I don't want to run a Windows desktop app on my phone any more than I want to run a phone app on my desktop PC. They are fundamentally different platforms, with different interfaces, different screen sizes and different needs.
Whether it is or not (I don't think so) that's not really what Microsoft is doing. You can't just download Windows 10 software and run it on Windows 10 Mobile.
Nor should you be able to. Phone software should be written for a phone. I don't want to run a Windows desktop app on my phone any more than I want to run a phone app on my desktop PC. They are fundamentally different platforms, with different interfaces, different screen sizes and different needs.
> You can't just download Windows 10 software and run it on Windows 10 Mobile.
That's exactly what you can do, given that the app is written against UWP.
We already universal apps between phones and tablets and we use webapps everywhere. Different screen sizes, different usage scenarios, different input methods – those are all things you can adjust your interface for.
That's exactly what you can do, given that the app is written against UWP.
We already universal apps between phones and tablets and we use webapps everywhere. Different screen sizes, different usage scenarios, different input methods – those are all things you can adjust your interface for.
Bluetooth keyboard and mouse can handle input. So, why can't you run StarCraft II on your phone?
Is StarCraft II written against UWP?
If there trying to unify platforms then it should not need to be a UWP app. Until then there just adding a new standard. https://xkcd.com/927/
I mean the laptop / phone divide is not all that wide in terms of Ram or Gflops. So, why not just run windows on everything?
I mean the laptop / phone divide is not all that wide in terms of Ram or Gflops. So, why not just run windows on everything?
Windows does run on everything. It won't run plain old Intel Win32 binaries on everything, with good reason.
UWP is hardly a new standard. It's the continuation of the Windows Phone/Windows 8 APIs and WPF, which dates back to 2006.
I think the biggest issue is that on Win32 both code and developers are much, much more powerful. You can't make Steam for UWP, or an IDE, or something like AutoCad with its plugin support. Other than mobile support, there is little reason to use UWP over Win32 (perhaps with WPF).
A shame, because we really need to move on from Win32.
UWP is hardly a new standard. It's the continuation of the Windows Phone/Windows 8 APIs and WPF, which dates back to 2006.
I think the biggest issue is that on Win32 both code and developers are much, much more powerful. You can't make Steam for UWP, or an IDE, or something like AutoCad with its plugin support. Other than mobile support, there is little reason to use UWP over Win32 (perhaps with WPF).
A shame, because we really need to move on from Win32.
You would use techniques that are conceptually similar to responsive web design to deliver a UI that is appropriate for each of the supported devices. I assume this kind of thing has already been done for years for phone/tablet apps, this is just adding desktop as well.
Actually yes, in the latest versions of phone and desktop you can run the same exact app across both. These new phones are actually running Windows and can run any of the new style apps in theory.
> can run any of the new style apps
This is not the same thing as being able to run any Windows Desktop App.
Also it's not established whether this makes for good Desktop and/or Phone software as a result.
This is not the same thing as being able to run any Windows Desktop App.
Also it's not established whether this makes for good Desktop and/or Phone software as a result.
For me, it is - I love the fact that the News, Weather, Email, Calendar, Calculator, Timer/Stopwatch, Cortana, Office Mobile (word/excel/onenote/powerpoint), Skydrive apps on Windows Phone 10 are the same, with the same UI and funcionality that on my Windows 10 desktop. It works perfectly with touch and it works perfectly with mouse and keyboard.
Now I only download an app if it is UWP because it is so much more convenient.
The subscore at the bottom of the article for "ecosystem" was given a rating of 6 (out of 10). To me, a "6" would mean "above-average".
Yet, the review actually says:
"What’s not encouraging is the state of apps for the Lumia 950 XL. I wanted to switch back to using this as my daily device over the past two weeks, but I simply couldn’t hack it. It stayed in my pocket while I used my iPhone 6S Plus, simply because so many apps are still missing or inadequate on Windows Phone. I’ve been to a lot of events recently and need Periscope to stream from the Verge account, or to use Snapchat. I simply can’t do this with the Lumia 950 XL, and I can’t even access our Trello work app. If I can’t get my work done on the move, it’s really difficult to switch back to a Windows phone.
Microsoft’s original plan was to support Android apps on Windows 10 Mobile, but that seems very unlikely now. Most of the third-party apps are just poor ports from iOS and Android, and lack key new features. The Twitter and Instagram apps are still depressing examples of the state of Windows, and I don’t feel like much has changed over the past year. Microsoft’s mobile store needs some serious love, but it’s running out of time."
Seems like the "ecosystem" score should actually have been a "2" or "3".
Followup clarification to the replies: For those who think a score of 2 or 3 is wrong, The Verge's own explanation for the scoring [1] says...
[1]http://www.theverge.com/how-we-rate
Yet, the review actually says:
"What’s not encouraging is the state of apps for the Lumia 950 XL. I wanted to switch back to using this as my daily device over the past two weeks, but I simply couldn’t hack it. It stayed in my pocket while I used my iPhone 6S Plus, simply because so many apps are still missing or inadequate on Windows Phone. I’ve been to a lot of events recently and need Periscope to stream from the Verge account, or to use Snapchat. I simply can’t do this with the Lumia 950 XL, and I can’t even access our Trello work app. If I can’t get my work done on the move, it’s really difficult to switch back to a Windows phone.
Microsoft’s original plan was to support Android apps on Windows 10 Mobile, but that seems very unlikely now. Most of the third-party apps are just poor ports from iOS and Android, and lack key new features. The Twitter and Instagram apps are still depressing examples of the state of Windows, and I don’t feel like much has changed over the past year. Microsoft’s mobile store needs some serious love, but it’s running out of time."
Seems like the "ecosystem" score should actually have been a "2" or "3".
Followup clarification to the replies: For those who think a score of 2 or 3 is wrong, The Verge's own explanation for the scoring [1] says...
...
2: Slightly better than garbage, but still incredibly bad.
3: Not a complete disaster, but not something we’d recommend.
...
6: Good. There are issues, but also redeeming qualities.
...
[1]http://www.theverge.com/how-we-rate
The subscore at the bottom of the article for "ecosystem" was given a rating of 6 (out of 10). To me, a "6" would mean "above-average".
6 out of 10 is not above average. If you got 6 answers right out of 10 on a test, you'd call that "barely more than half right". This is how American review scores work: they're based on school grades where anything below 8 is pretty much unacceptable.
6 out of 10 is not above average. If you got 6 answers right out of 10 on a test, you'd call that "barely more than half right". This is how American review scores work: they're based on school grades where anything below 8 is pretty much unacceptable.
That is not a very good way of scoring, because nobody cares about the difference between about "bad" and "awful" yet those classifications have the most bits of information.
Perhaps start at 5 and go to 15.
Perhaps start at 5 and go to 15.
6 is literally 60% - a D-, or on a test containing 100 questions at 1 point each, the minimum score required not to outright fail. At most US universities you won't get a degree with a 6/10 average.
It's probably like video game reviews where 9-10 means OK, and 6 means bad.
I'd argue that that "five line" should be at "acceptable". If the other app stores are all excellent and one is merely "good" it shouldn't necessarily get a sub-five rating.
Don't look for a rational system for any kind of review ratings anywhere. They can't be rational and objective, they're totally subjective.
And on top of that, they can't give a 2 or 3 to Microsoft's new flagship phone because they want to receive a review unit of the Surface Pro 4 next spring and they won't get one if they take that big of a dump on the Lumia 950 XL.
And on top of that, they can't give a 2 or 3 to Microsoft's new flagship phone because they want to receive a review unit of the Surface Pro 4 next spring and they won't get one if they take that big of a dump on the Lumia 950 XL.
It's hard to do a meaningful average when there are so few competitors. Being a 6 might be "not terrible", but it's going up against the iTunes and Android ecosystems which are incredibly large.
It's startling how quickly the turnaround for Microsoft has happened, and how badly they missed the transition to mobile.
For years the main strike against alternative platforms to Windows was the lack of software. Even ten years ago it was almost impossible to buy Mac software in the shops, back when software came in boxes.
And now Windows (albeit on mobile) is struggling to get traction due to lack of software.
For years the main strike against alternative platforms to Windows was the lack of software. Even ten years ago it was almost impossible to buy Mac software in the shops, back when software came in boxes.
And now Windows (albeit on mobile) is struggling to get traction due to lack of software.
With so few entries, let's have a look at the verge Android & iOS ecosystems scores in the 6P / 6S reviews : they both get 9.
either its 3 vs 9 or 6 vs 9, in both cases it is still an enormous gap.
either its 3 vs 9 or 6 vs 9, in both cases it is still an enormous gap.
This probably won't be a popular opinion on HN, but as much as people usually make fun of reviewers citing design, it does matter to me and many other people. I'm not saying I would REFUSE to own a device that wasn't pretty (and honestly even some of Apple's stuff strikes me as a little ugly) but design does matter, especially when you're a multi-billion dollar company and you could easily locate and supply some designers to wrap your electronics in a spiffy housing.
To me, it's less about you should have something pretty, and more about why don't you have something pretty? It's not like a case made of silver plastic with a few chrome bits or maybe something in matte black with accents is massively expensive to make.
This is especially true for Windows Phone I think, because it has such a rep already for being dull even by Blackberry standards.
FTR: I had a Lumia Icon for about a year, and dumped it for the same reason as the author: Ecosystem was glitchy, the app market was way out of touch with Android and iOS in terms of quality and diversity, and the iPhone 6+ finally offered an iOS device of a decent size which was my final beef with it. Sold.
To me, it's less about you should have something pretty, and more about why don't you have something pretty? It's not like a case made of silver plastic with a few chrome bits or maybe something in matte black with accents is massively expensive to make.
This is especially true for Windows Phone I think, because it has such a rep already for being dull even by Blackberry standards.
FTR: I had a Lumia Icon for about a year, and dumped it for the same reason as the author: Ecosystem was glitchy, the app market was way out of touch with Android and iOS in terms of quality and diversity, and the iPhone 6+ finally offered an iOS device of a decent size which was my final beef with it. Sold.
Agreed. You're carrying this thing around with you 16 hours a day. Design is crucial. And if it isn't then increasingly, you'll be fine with a 100 dollar generic phone. Unfortunately, design is something that you can't just throw dollars at, unlike the tech. Your people have to have some form of inspiration, that they're doing something beautiful, that their aesthetic efforts are appreciated, that they work in a place that has some measure of artistic thinking. MS doesn't seem to have that mojo. Just look at the Xbox One vs the PS4. Throw decent components into the most generic black plastic box you can source then scratch a few patterns on it. Awful.
Then you contrast that with the Halo 5 XBox one, designed in a place that does have artists in a creative environment...
I mean it's not gorgeous but it's a hell of improvement, accomplished with just different printing on the outside.
I mean it's not gorgeous but it's a hell of improvement, accomplished with just different printing on the outside.
Most reviews for this phone were out 1 month ago. Theverge took its time.
Continuum is the most promising feature of the phone. It actually becomes a "real" computer, even though this is just the start.
I think Microsoft is doing the right thing lately by leveraging its strength, the desktop.
Reviewers are always blaming the ecosystem. But imagine the future when smartphones get more powerful and the Win32 windows app can be distributed through the Windows Store (this will arrive at some point). The phone would naturally gain the ability to run a win32 app when plugged to a screen.
The phone would run both Win10 Universal apps and any old windows app that's been there since the early ages of the PC era. The ecosystem would become suddenly a lot better and the phone more interesting.
Continuum is the most promising feature of the phone. It actually becomes a "real" computer, even though this is just the start.
I think Microsoft is doing the right thing lately by leveraging its strength, the desktop.
Reviewers are always blaming the ecosystem. But imagine the future when smartphones get more powerful and the Win32 windows app can be distributed through the Windows Store (this will arrive at some point). The phone would naturally gain the ability to run a win32 app when plugged to a screen.
The phone would run both Win10 Universal apps and any old windows app that's been there since the early ages of the PC era. The ecosystem would become suddenly a lot better and the phone more interesting.
> It actually becomes a "real" computer,
I don't think that it does, not like the first few versions of the Ubuntu Phone became a real Gnome desktop. This Windows phone's desktop mode seems like a larger screen with mouse/keyboard support. Can it handle more than one app at a time? Still impressive as hell though and I agree with it being the future of devices.
I don't think that it does, not like the first few versions of the Ubuntu Phone became a real Gnome desktop. This Windows phone's desktop mode seems like a larger screen with mouse/keyboard support. Can it handle more than one app at a time? Still impressive as hell though and I agree with it being the future of devices.
You get multitasking, the taskbar and windowing. It's unforunate that there are so few apps. Microsoft made a good effort with Office, now imagine getting Visual Studio on there. That would rock.
The "Windows Continuum" is what I have wanted from a PDA / smart phone since the Newton. I really would love something I could carry with me and then dock to get the big screen experience. I do wish it was OS X (not iOS or at least not a locked iOS), but this is a step closer.
Me too but my feeling is that Apple is putting more resources on iOS and is betting on it to gain more usage over Mac OS for most users. The release of the iPad pro is the most recent sign of that trend.
The Mac app store is not that successful which is not very surprising as it requires devs to invest in a new app with a completely different set of competencies.
iOS and the iPhone are Apple cash cow presently.
That's why Microsoft strategy makes sense to me. They have a chance at least. We'll see.
The Mac app store is not that successful which is not very surprising as it requires devs to invest in a new app with a completely different set of competencies.
iOS and the iPhone are Apple cash cow presently.
That's why Microsoft strategy makes sense to me. They have a chance at least. We'll see.
Yeah, I know its pretty over for OS X despite what Apple says. The quality of the "California" series has been horrible with networking, constant sandbox problems, and Finder errors that should have been caught on day 1 of testing. It just makes me queasy every time I have to open Console and look at all the errors scrolling by. I just hate not having a Terminal if I plug into a monitor. Or maybe I'm just bummed that I am going to end up learning Swift (I really don't like it) replace a language I enjoy (Objective-C). Won't be the first time I've programmed in something I dislike to get the results I want.
I sometimes wonder if a Cocoa 2 evolution of the desktop to bring the Cocoa & Cocoa Touch back together, although I believe the Mac App Store is problematic for entirely different reasons.
I sometimes wonder if a Cocoa 2 evolution of the desktop to bring the Cocoa & Cocoa Touch back together, although I believe the Mac App Store is problematic for entirely different reasons.
Win32 apps suck at touch and always have. MS has had pen and then touch devices out via OEMs for over a decade. Trying to close a browser window via a 16px "x" is terrible on a 12" laptop; but on a phone?
Your phone running full Win32 APIs probably isn't the great boon it'd otherwise be. Likewise Windows tablets have not gotten much traction in the past (or present) -- you simply must have a pen and most likely a Bluetooth keyboard to properly use them. I bought a few, tried to use them, gave them to people -- Android devices just blow them away.
The real touch apps --- Metro -- are pretty terrible (slow, even MS's own Metro calc takes seconds to load.) And of course mean rewriting a lot of things.
Your phone running full Win32 APIs probably isn't the great boon it'd otherwise be. Likewise Windows tablets have not gotten much traction in the past (or present) -- you simply must have a pen and most likely a Bluetooth keyboard to properly use them. I bought a few, tried to use them, gave them to people -- Android devices just blow them away.
The real touch apps --- Metro -- are pretty terrible (slow, even MS's own Metro calc takes seconds to load.) And of course mean rewriting a lot of things.
It would be kind of funny if in a few years the stars align and MS's monopoly on the desktop somehow leapfrogs them into the front on phones.
As a 950 owner I'd say that review is harsh but fair. At this point I can't recommend to anyone that they buy these phones unless they've decided that both android and iOS are not for them and still want a high-end phone. Frustratingly the user experience is becoming more like android with every wp version increment, and the whole reason I went to wp in the first place is because i didn't like android (or iOS) as a phone ui. maybe a surface phone will turn things around next year...
Everything is boxes forever.
I fucking hate minimalist UI.
I fucking hate minimalist UI.
How developing apps for Windows Phone can be compared with iphone/android? I have experience in neither, but I expected Windows to gain traction given the free VS IDE, adequate emulators, and universal apps automatically suitable for desktop use.
Is it just small market share blocking wider adoption, or is the tooling somehow lacking still?
Is it just small market share blocking wider adoption, or is the tooling somehow lacking still?
When it comes to Microsoft, the tooling never lacks. Usually it's the best you can get.
It didn't help much far. I remember being in complete awe when you could run Windows Phone 7 demo apps on Microsoft's tutorial pages by virtue of Silverlight. Developer tools have indeed never been the problem.
It's the endless restarts (WM6 -> WP7 -> WP8, and to some extend WM10), lack of Microsoft's engagement (why not launch a Surface Phone and be done with it), the lack of good hardware, and simply the lack of developers.
At this point, I do not see much of a future for Windows Phone/Mobile. It will probably continue to exist as one of their 'hobby projects'. But Satya Nadella realized (correctly) that much more can be gained by serving the market. Now Microsoft's own applications are better on iOS and Android than Windows Mobile.
It's the endless restarts (WM6 -> WP7 -> WP8, and to some extend WM10), lack of Microsoft's engagement (why not launch a Surface Phone and be done with it), the lack of good hardware, and simply the lack of developers.
At this point, I do not see much of a future for Windows Phone/Mobile. It will probably continue to exist as one of their 'hobby projects'. But Satya Nadella realized (correctly) that much more can be gained by serving the market. Now Microsoft's own applications are better on iOS and Android than Windows Mobile.
Continuum is an impressive tech demo (for a feature that nobody to speak of is demanding).
Still, I think an x86 Surface Phone that goes heavy on the whole-PC-in-your-pocket mantra really is Microsoft's Hail Mary pass for getting Windows Mobile to stick.
Still, I think an x86 Surface Phone that goes heavy on the whole-PC-in-your-pocket mantra really is Microsoft's Hail Mary pass for getting Windows Mobile to stick.
Continuum sounds awesome. I've been wishing for this for years. My current ~2 year old Nexus 5 has much higher hardware specs than my desktop from 10 years ago (2x the cores, 4x the RAM), and I'd love to be able to take my computer everywhere in my pocket.
This feature almost makes we want to go out and buy this phone, just to support the concept. But then again, Windows Mobile... Arg.
This feature almost makes we want to go out and buy this phone, just to support the concept. But then again, Windows Mobile... Arg.
> Not enough apps
So the review says not enough apps, but not enough apps bundled with the phone or in the store? and what kind of app is missing?
So the review says not enough apps, but not enough apps bundled with the phone or in the store? and what kind of app is missing?
In the store. The author lists some missing apps under the heading "The app gap problem still exists".
I'm a WP 8.1 user. The main problem isn't so much that there aren't enough apps or that entire classes of apps are completely missing, but that the apps that are there lag way behind equivalent Android and iOS apps in quality and features.
The apps are also crappy quality, many just being wrappers for YouTube channels. The reviews are somehow worse than YouTube comments. Even their "top" charts have random crap in it like "FreeFlix Free Movies" or "Free Mp3 Downloader". For a while, MS was extremely uncooperative with trademark issues (Netflix had to get fake Netflix apps removed several times; other ISVs reported MS just wouldn't respond at all, even on well-known and obvious scam apps.)
Even now, searching for "Game of Thrones" leads to a scam $5 paid app that doesn't even have a website.
MS actually paid to help create this scenario. They were offering $100 or $200 per app for shovelware.
There seems to be zero QC or curation or any sense of class in the Windows Store. So they get the downsides of a closed platform, with the downsides of just letting people publish crap. Even Google Play is better.
Even now, searching for "Game of Thrones" leads to a scam $5 paid app that doesn't even have a website.
MS actually paid to help create this scenario. They were offering $100 or $200 per app for shovelware.
There seems to be zero QC or curation or any sense of class in the Windows Store. So they get the downsides of a closed platform, with the downsides of just letting people publish crap. Even Google Play is better.
for some reason, nokia's 930 has much nicer curves than this one. there isn't a whole lot of that in either model, but this one somehow looks like a lame htc.
I have a Lumia 930. I love it enough to not notice that there aren't enough apps for it.
I have a Lumia 930. I love it enough to not notice that there aren't enough apps for it.
I'd like to know what's the turnover of a phone like this?
How do people put up with non-iOS phones? I scrolled halfway down that article and mobile chrome decided to reflow and take me back to the beginning.
Sooner or later PC's are going to get so small they fit in your pocket. I just hope windows phone keeps going until then. Im not sure how apple and android will cope with that future.
In the meantime, I think the Lumias are just fine. They makes calls, they takes pictures, they gets you on the internet. What else is there? I haven't noticed any apps I cant get either. Then again you don't miss what you never knew.