We shut down our startup(entrepreneurs.maqtoob.com)
entrepreneurs.maqtoob.com
We shut down our startup
https://entrepreneurs.maqtoob.com/my-cofounder-said-i-love-what-were-doing-and-we-shut-down-our-startup-80d5e710c2b2#.fpa1bd25p
117 comments
You are describing a traditional, organically grown local business. And absoulutely nothing wrong with that, but quite different from the Dishero situation of needing to find a viable path to an exit or at least the next round.
I don't think it is possible to scale a business before you've validated the concept on a smaller scale. Validation really should come first and that includes the business model.
You hit it on the head, this is everything wrong with the startup community, your path should be to a viable business, doing something you love, not just wealth.
I’ve found that focusing on the giving ensures we make enough to keep giving.
Money quote for me.
Money quote for me.
>Probably my favorite action is when I show up delivering what my customer has ordered, only to cancel the order because I know the customer does not need the items. These are not products I can simply sell some other day. When that happens—and it always does—my customers know our focus is taking care of them, not making every possible sale.
What do you do with the food from the cancelled order?
What do you do with the food from the cancelled order?
I give away as much of it as possible. Mostly to random strangers, but also to friends, work and home neighbors, and some to other customers who may have a use. There are times product gets thrown out, too. Unfortunately, local food banks and shelters don't accept products like I make.
You've probably thought of this but -- sample it to the next restaurant you drive past who looks like they could sell it? Back of house is always hungry, so you just need to make sure the manager or chef actually gets one, along with your business card.
I have thought of it. Still, thank you for the good suggestion. The reason I don't do it is logistical: until I'm in a larger facility I have limitations on production, and I make certain I don't create insurmountable complications on my end for supplying my customers.
>Back of house is always hungry....
True, but maybe even more potentially valuable is that getting to eat something other than what they usually eat makes the "new" product seem even better. This was learned as we often give away products to the food establishments where we pick up our lunch.
>Back of house is always hungry....
True, but maybe even more potentially valuable is that getting to eat something other than what they usually eat makes the "new" product seem even better. This was learned as we often give away products to the food establishments where we pick up our lunch.
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I think with Dishero, the issue is product-market fit, and without it, none of the other stuff matters. My guess is the restaurants understand your product better and can more easily see how they can make money with it.
Can I join you?
They went from a company trying to sell to restaurants to one that will sell to developers?
Developers are some of the cheapest people I know. Many refuse to even pay for tools that save them a lot of hours per month (i.e. PyCharm). They don't know how to value their own time.
So unless they start targeting the C level management this product is probably doomed.
Developers are some of the cheapest people I know. Many refuse to even pay for tools that save them a lot of hours per month (i.e. PyCharm). They don't know how to value their own time.
So unless they start targeting the C level management this product is probably doomed.
Developers are cheap in that they won't pay for something themselves if they have a remotely functional workaround. Development teams, however, are much less frugal about spending their employer's money to save them time and pain, and it's pretty easy to get management to sign off on purchasing something that will save their developers time, pain, or just plain make them happier.
> and it's pretty easy to get management to sign off on purchasing something
Whooa, where is this mythical land of milk and honey, and can I but tickets to get there?
Whooa, where is this mythical land of milk and honey, and can I but tickets to get there?
Do you work someplace that won't pay for Photoshop or even SublimeText (et al)?
I worked in companies that would try to avoid paying for those and companies that would never pay for those no matter what.
I've worked for companies that would never pay for those, companies that would pay for pretty much anything if we made a case that it would help us, and my current employer, who will pay for things that we can prove delivers value, but don't default to saying "yes, we'll pay for," and who also audit every subscription they're paying for quarterly.
How successful were those companies?
I work for a smallish company, as a developer. We get to choose our own tools. I think the reasoning is valid -- who would know better than the developers what actually will make them more productive?
In practice, I don't need to approve any purchase with management. I have a company credit card, and if I feel I need license for Sublime Text I'll just buy it.
But you are right -- as a private person I'm quite a bit more price sensitive about my tools than as a professional who is expected to deliver.
In practice, I don't need to approve any purchase with management. I have a company credit card, and if I feel I need license for Sublime Text I'll just buy it.
But you are right -- as a private person I'm quite a bit more price sensitive about my tools than as a professional who is expected to deliver.
> it's pretty easy to get management to sign off on purchasing something that will save their developers time, pain, or just plain make them happier.
Managers will also pay to increase the quality of a developers output. This includes testing/QA and code review tools for example.
Managers will also pay to increase the quality of a developers output. This includes testing/QA and code review tools for example.
Having grown up in a restaurant to become a developer, I would say it's a lot harder to sell to a restaurant.
My parents would never spend any budget on anything tech at all. They would still have a hard time seeing the benefits of something like JustEat or Deliveroo, where an outsider might think it was obvious. I suspect there's a lot of restaurant businesses with very conservative owners.
A dev can easily go and pay a few hundred buck for some IDE that they turn out not to use after a few weeks.
My parents would never spend any budget on anything tech at all. They would still have a hard time seeing the benefits of something like JustEat or Deliveroo, where an outsider might think it was obvious. I suspect there's a lot of restaurant businesses with very conservative owners.
A dev can easily go and pay a few hundred buck for some IDE that they turn out not to use after a few weeks.
"I suspect there's a lot of restaurant businesses with very conservative owners."
That's probably most restaurants, given how shitty the margins in that business are. An owner can ill afford to make a mistake.
That's probably most restaurants, given how shitty the margins in that business are. An owner can ill afford to make a mistake.
What were the pricing models of JustEat and Deliveroo?
I don't think they are trying to sell to developers (even if developers are their users).
I'm missing the bit where there was a word of appreciation for the paying customers and I suspect that they didn't rate a mention is a factor in why this company was unsuccessful.
He also kind of shittalked his cofounder. Implicit in the setup of the piece is the fact that his cofounder was essentially clueless about everything.
"I asked my close friend of 20 years how he was doing. Dmitry answered, “Awesome! I love what we’re doing these days!” ... It was obvious that my most sarcastic friend genuinely meant every word. Little did we know then, that Dishero, the company we had co-founded a year and a half ago, would be shut down within the next 72 hours as a direct result of his answer."
"I asked my close friend of 20 years how he was doing. Dmitry answered, “Awesome! I love what we’re doing these days!” ... It was obvious that my most sarcastic friend genuinely meant every word. Little did we know then, that Dishero, the company we had co-founded a year and a half ago, would be shut down within the next 72 hours as a direct result of his answer."
If they don't want to work on a restaurant service, that's fine. But I'm not sure their learnings are spot-on. Looks to me like the raised a lot of money which wouldn't be a problem unless they started over-spending (which they did; 17 people & 3 countries???).
For an offering like that, get out of SF and find a "small" city like Des Moines or Tallahassee that has 1,000 restaurants but not a million Silicon Valley sales bros calling them every 5 minutes. Prove the business with a lean team before opening up the purse strings.
For an offering like that, get out of SF and find a "small" city like Des Moines or Tallahassee that has 1,000 restaurants but not a million Silicon Valley sales bros calling them every 5 minutes. Prove the business with a lean team before opening up the purse strings.
There are many options for mobile app debugging / analytics already, I feel like these founders just want to start something... anything... Maybe it's time to take some time off and reflect? I've never started a company so I don't know these things, but it seems like a desperate move to me.
> I feel like these founders just want to start something... anything...
Wantrepreneurship... I've been there too. Taking some time off is definitely the best cure but $1.8M in the bank is very tempting to keep diving into anything as long as you can keep deluding yourself you're working on the next big thing.
Wantrepreneurship... I've been there too. Taking some time off is definitely the best cure but $1.8M in the bank is very tempting to keep diving into anything as long as you can keep deluding yourself you're working on the next big thing.
I don't understand why the investors would not take the $1.8M back once the idea they invested in was shut down.
I guess they value the founder more than the money? Their lottery ticket already failed, this is a pure free bonus round.
You know that standard VC advertising line "we invest in the team"? It's not always bullshit.
And if you've already seen the team in action and like how they make decisions you're better off effectively giving a known quantity a new $1.8M investment (with zero transaction cost) than taking a flyer on not only a new business idea but a new team as well.
And if you've already seen the team in action and like how they make decisions you're better off effectively giving a known quantity a new $1.8M investment (with zero transaction cost) than taking a flyer on not only a new business idea but a new team as well.
> selling to restaurants is a dead end.
I can expand on that: Selling to small-to-medium-enterprises is a dead end. They are entirely focused on the near-term, and usually their finances are hand-to-mouth each month. Unless you can demonstrate that they will be making real, actual money with your product from day one, without any extra effort, save yourself the bother.
I can expand on that: Selling to small-to-medium-enterprises is a dead end. They are entirely focused on the near-term, and usually their finances are hand-to-mouth each month. Unless you can demonstrate that they will be making real, actual money with your product from day one, without any extra effort, save yourself the bother.
Can you expand on your experiences, and why you think they are a trend?
"the goal to replace the paper menus and give restaurants full control over their online presence."
"Our business was seemingly working and from 30K feet — it looked great:"
"We had had happy customers and revenue almost from day one. Our revenue grew continuously for 11 months in a row."
"Despite of all of the above, Dishero was still in a mediocre category: we were burning $100K/m and making $9K/m in revenue. The revenue continued to grow, but the growth was painfully slow and unpredictable."
We're not in a bubble....
"Our business was seemingly working and from 30K feet — it looked great:"
"We had had happy customers and revenue almost from day one. Our revenue grew continuously for 11 months in a row."
"Despite of all of the above, Dishero was still in a mediocre category: we were burning $100K/m and making $9K/m in revenue. The revenue continued to grow, but the growth was painfully slow and unpredictable."
We're not in a bubble....
Right! I'm sorry, but $9k/mo in revenue with 45 sales people and $100k in expenses??
Definitely not in a bubble. I run my own bootstrapped company that does $5k/mo recurring and my expenses are sub $750 a month.
Definitely not in a bubble. I run my own bootstrapped company that does $5k/mo recurring and my expenses are sub $750 a month.
The core take away here is that unless you are one of the top 3 employees in a start-up, or even moderately successful business, you are trivially expendable. No matter if you put in hours of overtime, poured your hart and soul into your job, all of that is null and void on the whim of the owners. Of course they will have a rational justification why you lost your job. Unless you control your destiny you will forever be subject to the destiny of others.
Take all of this into consideration when next interviewing and negotiate for the best possible deal, knowing that no amount of possible "future" prospects is a solid as hard cash in the bank now, be as predatory and hard nosed as you can possibly be. You are working for Me(Inc) and its dependants, you are morally obliged to extract every last drop of value you can from your current employment relationship, because, as you can see from this example, the converse is a given.
Take all of this into consideration when next interviewing and negotiate for the best possible deal, knowing that no amount of possible "future" prospects is a solid as hard cash in the bank now, be as predatory and hard nosed as you can possibly be. You are working for Me(Inc) and its dependants, you are morally obliged to extract every last drop of value you can from your current employment relationship, because, as you can see from this example, the converse is a given.
No matter if you put in hours of overtime, poured your hart and soul into your job, all of that is null and void on the whim of the owners.
Well presumably you got paid. I'm not sure what else an employee has a right to expect beyond that.
Well presumably you got paid. I'm not sure what else an employee has a right to expect beyond that.
Restaurants have terrible margins (in the 3% range [1]) and high failure rates themselves. Selling to them as a startup is like playing on ultrahard mode difficulty, unless you're solving a hair-on-fire level pain point. The total neglect most restaurants show towards their websites and menus would indicate it's actually not a very high priority problem.
Startups are already hard just by themselves. If you want to increase your chances, pick a industry with healthy margins.
[1] http://smallbusiness.chron.com/average-profit-margin-restaur...
Startups are already hard just by themselves. If you want to increase your chances, pick a industry with healthy margins.
[1] http://smallbusiness.chron.com/average-profit-margin-restaur...
Interestingly, I found this post to be full of answers and opportunities in the restaurant space.
-> "replace the paper menus and give restaurants full control over their online presence"
This isn't a task of selling to a restaurant. Restaurants don't make their own menus, they go to designers. Designers are the customer for new paper menus. They are currently being threatened by Canva, which is making it easier for non-designers to get a better product.
->"[restaurant owner] doesn’t have a spreadsheet estimating how many people show up on a Tuesday night"
Uh, HUGE opportunity. Machine learning across what is going on in a city and how that would affect restuarant sales. Network effects (if you're getting data as well as selling answers) and you get to sell the same product again and again and again.
I'm maybe not so sure they were looking at the opportunities enough.
-> "replace the paper menus and give restaurants full control over their online presence"
This isn't a task of selling to a restaurant. Restaurants don't make their own menus, they go to designers. Designers are the customer for new paper menus. They are currently being threatened by Canva, which is making it easier for non-designers to get a better product.
->"[restaurant owner] doesn’t have a spreadsheet estimating how many people show up on a Tuesday night"
Uh, HUGE opportunity. Machine learning across what is going on in a city and how that would affect restuarant sales. Network effects (if you're getting data as well as selling answers) and you get to sell the same product again and again and again.
I'm maybe not so sure they were looking at the opportunities enough.
It would be really interesting to see long-term stats on success rates of founders who pivoted vs those who persevered with the original idea.
I can't figure out what this would tell you. Would it tell you that initial ideas were often better or worse than subsequent ideas? The sensitivity of teams to how product market fit occurred? I can't figure out how it would be actionable, due to the wide gamut of ideas and execution.
indeed
>Here’s our big insight / little secret — selling to restaurants is a dead end.
But fantastic if you can make it work a la Grubhub and Seamless who got $360 million in revenues primarily by selling to restaurants.
The restaurant business is indeed hard, but lucky (or good) sales people have had tremendous success and profitability tackling it.
But fantastic if you can make it work a la Grubhub and Seamless who got $360 million in revenues primarily by selling to restaurants.
The restaurant business is indeed hard, but lucky (or good) sales people have had tremendous success and profitability tackling it.
I think the key difference is that Grubhub and Seamless offer restaurants an additional revenue stream without the overhead or operational headaches of doing in themselves.
SinglePlatform did _exactly_ what this business did (centralized menu mgmt), but was profitable and sold for $100million.
"SinglePlatform is your connection to the top search engines, travel and review sites, online listing directories and mobile apps used by over 200 million people to find local businesses." (from website)
Sounds more like digital facing store front management, way beyond centralized menu management, which would be a clear value add for local restauraunts.
Sounds more like digital facing store front management, way beyond centralized menu management, which would be a clear value add for local restauraunts.
Isn't that Locu?
> But fantastic if you can make it work a la Grubhub and Seamless who got $360 million in revenues primarily by selling to restaurants.
Grubhub, Seamless, Doordash etc aren't selling to restaurants, they are buying from restaurants and reselling the product to consumers. Like Amazon or Staples or your local corner store.
Grubhub, Seamless, Doordash etc aren't selling to restaurants, they are buying from restaurants and reselling the product to consumers. Like Amazon or Staples or your local corner store.
I don't think those are quite the same thing, they are still ultimately consumer businesses. The end customer is the public, not restaurant owners
Yeah, don't try to sell to restaurants. I'm not sure if that, or running a restaurant, is the worse idea.
Worse to sell to a restaurant since if you have a chance of success if you are running a restaurant.
There whole SMB market is a death trap for technology companies. It looks so attractive on the surface; great demand and no competition, but the reason there is no competition is the cost of acquiring a customer in this market is greater than the lifetime customer value.
There whole SMB market is a death trap for technology companies. It looks so attractive on the surface; great demand and no competition, but the reason there is no competition is the cost of acquiring a customer in this market is greater than the lifetime customer value.
So how does slack, square and shopify do it with their SMB products?
It is not impossible in this market, just very hard. The key is getting your cost of customer acquisition down below your lifetime customer value. You can do this two ways - use a low touch sales model or offer a sticky product with high margins at a relatively high price.
The problem is not many products can be sold successfully into the SMB market with a low touch sales model - the decision makers are just too busy running their businesses to investigate what technology products will make their life easier on their own (hence the need for sales staff).
Once you need sales staff you need a product that is going to give you a high lifetime customer value and there are not many technology products aimed at the SMB market that can offer this. I sell into SMB market, but I sell a very expensive SAAS product in a tiny niche. This makes a great lifestyle business, but it has no interest to investors because the total market size is just too small.
The problem is not many products can be sold successfully into the SMB market with a low touch sales model - the decision makers are just too busy running their businesses to investigate what technology products will make their life easier on their own (hence the need for sales staff).
Once you need sales staff you need a product that is going to give you a high lifetime customer value and there are not many technology products aimed at the SMB market that can offer this. I sell into SMB market, but I sell a very expensive SAAS product in a tiny niche. This makes a great lifestyle business, but it has no interest to investors because the total market size is just too small.
I recommend you don't even think about the term SMB. It's such a broad category.
You can't just group all small businesses together and say you can't sell to this group. They all have different pain points and problems. Some products address them (slack), others don't (op)
You can't just group all small businesses together and say you can't sell to this group. They all have different pain points and problems. Some products address them (slack), others don't (op)
'traps' don't necessarily have a 100% capture rate.
Exactly. People see the few companies that manage to succeed in this market and assume it is easier than it really is - the few survivors hide the thousands of companies that tried and failed.
Square seems to be doing not too shabbily in that market.
That's because they hit squarely (no pun intended) on a pain point with a clearly better solution.
How is spending 100k/m, while only bringing in 9k/m is a "moderate success"? Their lessons learned is basically "tech startups in the restaurant space is a stupid idea"!
Shouldn't there be a lower cost way to figure out WTP, CAC, churn rate, customer purchase journey map, etc. etc. before starting a company and having a large-ish sales/marketing team?
[deleted]
IMHO the wrong thing about most startups (no offence), is that they all want to change the world. Everyone wants to redefine an existing market as that all previous guys who tried to do it were idiots or didn't know a thing about what they were doing. It's not a bad thing to be ambitious but don't think you are the only special in the universe.
I agree. I mean, Dishero was very young. I doubt that in a market as conservative as the one they were in they'd find the magic bullet in less than two years.
Very good read, but at the end, there is no universal recipe for either success or failure.
What exactly did Dishero do? I don't understand from the article.
[deleted]
Thanks for sharing
A lot of what's said is very similar in the education space as well so I can somewhat understand. Great writeup!
good read
"We had raised a total of $2.8M (2 rounds)"
"we were burning $100K/m and making $9K/m in revenue"
That is how startups in America work: a) take any idea b) find enough believers c) throw money at the problem until it either works out or fails.
I mean are those people for real? It's like watching 5y olds playing monopoly
How about: If you need millions investment for your idea then your idea is just BAD (except you are building Teslas maybe)
That is how startups in America work: a) take any idea b) find enough believers c) throw money at the problem until it either works out or fails.
I mean are those people for real? It's like watching 5y olds playing monopoly
How about: If you need millions investment for your idea then your idea is just BAD (except you are building Teslas maybe)
We're going to add the Principle of Charity (http://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html) to the HN guidelines as a way of emphasizing how badly comments like this break them.
If you assume that other people are stupid, nothing is easier than to conclude that they're stupid as well. This is good for attracting upvotes from others who feel the same way you do in the first place. But it's deeply bad for thoughtful discussion.
If you assume that other people are stupid, nothing is easier than to conclude that they're stupid as well. This is good for attracting upvotes from others who feel the same way you do in the first place. But it's deeply bad for thoughtful discussion.
1. You've been saying that for a long time. Do it! Is this a trickier task than I think it is? Can I do it for you?
2. Consider adding AGF at the same time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith
Not all of WP's idioms are valuable, but there aren't many community management problems they haven't engaged with (and none of the ones they've missed apply to HN) and this is one of their better results.
Post-Dang HN has been pretty great. Thanks! Level it up again. :)
2. Consider adding AGF at the same time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith
Not all of WP's idioms are valuable, but there aren't many community management problems they haven't engaged with (and none of the ones they've missed apply to HN) and this is one of their better results.
Post-Dang HN has been pretty great. Thanks! Level it up again. :)
They didn't throw "millions" at the idea. If you read the article carefully, they stopped after spending $1M, i.e., with 2/3 of their investors' money still in the bank. Yes, maybe they could've stopped/pivoted sooner, but once you are experimenting with something, you need to be patient enough to give it a shot.
And it looks like the investors opted for sticking with the team for their next shot as opposed to taking that money back - an option that was on the table. That's an indicator of trust, so maybe the team isn't that clueless after all.
I don't necessarily agree. Some businesses simply can't be started without a ton of cash (like building cars like you mentioned). I don't think you could bootstrap a new supermarket concept. Sometimes you just have to get investors to try out an idea.
Yea but they were not building Teslas, they were doing some app/site for restaurants...
I wonder what they spend 100k a month on.
Servers are cheap. Engineers and sales people are not.
Startups often evolve as a clearing of multiple hurdles of "optimism" in succession before they fail.
Agreed. I don't look at this and think "mediocre success", as they described it. I see failure.
> we were burning $100K/m and making $9K/m in revenue
There's all that needed to be said, right there.
There's all that needed to be said, right there.
I like how he specifically called that "mediocre success"...
Even worse, he contrasted "mediocre success" against "failure", whereas anyone outside of the tech bubble would have looked at the numbers and rightly called it a failure outright.
The bubble is not in valuations, the bubble is in people's heads - the naive delusion that you can disrupt all aspects of human nature by applying enough technology and holistic ideology.
The bubble is not in valuations, the bubble is in people's heads - the naive delusion that you can disrupt all aspects of human nature by applying enough technology and holistic ideology.
The bubble is not in valuations, the bubble is in people's heads - the naive delusion that you can disrupt all aspects of human nature by applying enough technology and holistic ideology.
It may be true that there are aspects of human nature that can't be disrupted by technology, but the problem is recognising which can and which can't. Often when something fails you don't actually know because it may succeed under slightly different circumstances. The failure of a startup is evidence that there may not be a market for "disrupting human nature" in that domain, but it definitely isn't proof.
It may be true that there are aspects of human nature that can't be disrupted by technology, but the problem is recognising which can and which can't. Often when something fails you don't actually know because it may succeed under slightly different circumstances. The failure of a startup is evidence that there may not be a market for "disrupting human nature" in that domain, but it definitely isn't proof.
>the naive delusion that you can disrupt all aspects of human nature by applying enough technology
This. Absolutely this. Superior software/technology has, is, and will lose to crappy stuff from time to time. And here is why... psychology trumps technology. If your technology doesn't align well with psychology then you have an enormous uphill climb to conquer. If your solution requires people to fight their nature, best of luck to you.
This. Absolutely this. Superior software/technology has, is, and will lose to crappy stuff from time to time. And here is why... psychology trumps technology. If your technology doesn't align well with psychology then you have an enormous uphill climb to conquer. If your solution requires people to fight their nature, best of luck to you.
As someone running a bootstrapped small business that lives and dies on cashflow while we try to reach larger success that statement struck me as crazy.
It would be fun to spend some time working in a venture backed company since it's so different from the reality I operate in currently.
It would be fun to spend some time working in a venture backed company since it's so different from the reality I operate in currently.
"default dead" [1]
1 http://paulgraham.com/aord.html
1 http://paulgraham.com/aord.html
That's a great read. I'm flabbergasted that founders don't model their expected finances. I mean, Jesus, what are they thinking? How, then, do they make decisions?
Even if the model turns out to be grossly incorrect at least you get some idea of critical factors and milestones. And, it's fun! So you update it regularly. Here we are nearing the end of Q2....
Even if the model turns out to be grossly incorrect at least you get some idea of critical factors and milestones. And, it's fun! So you update it regularly. Here we are nearing the end of Q2....
Many founders have never had to do anything remotely like running a business. Particularly when they started the company more to build something they wish existed than to make crazy amounts of money.
"Mediocre category" O_O
It's dead, Jim (unless you can increase that revenue FAST)...
It's dead, Jim (unless you can increase that revenue FAST)...
Every time I read one of these (less and less frequently) I find that the core problem is the management writing the article.
None of the insights they talk about are particularly noteworthy or trade secrets. They could have been discovered as part of coming up with their business plan. It's more than fair to assume they'll make the mistake again.
None of the insights they talk about are particularly noteworthy or trade secrets. They could have been discovered as part of coming up with their business plan. It's more than fair to assume they'll make the mistake again.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11925924 and downweighted it.
It's not strictly off-topic, but it's a nasty, generic dismissal. Piling onto other people's mistakes ("They could have been discovered as part of coming up with their business plan") is a lousy thing to do, and if you're going to do it here (though please don't), your comment should have at least have some other redeeming quality. Instead you draw contemptuous conclusions about someone's character, kicking them when they're down.
This is the sort of comment that, even assuming it's 100% correct, says more about the commenter than its subject. I'm ashamed to see things like this on HN and particularly ashamed that they routinely attract upvotes.
It's not strictly off-topic, but it's a nasty, generic dismissal. Piling onto other people's mistakes ("They could have been discovered as part of coming up with their business plan") is a lousy thing to do, and if you're going to do it here (though please don't), your comment should have at least have some other redeeming quality. Instead you draw contemptuous conclusions about someone's character, kicking them when they're down.
This is the sort of comment that, even assuming it's 100% correct, says more about the commenter than its subject. I'm ashamed to see things like this on HN and particularly ashamed that they routinely attract upvotes.
[deleted]
This was a hurtful response.
I am a single poster/person, not a group of people or a pattern of commenting.
I am a single poster/person, not a group of people or a pattern of commenting.
None of the insights they talk about are particularly noteworthy or trade secrets.
The trade secret is in what's not mentioned: what's wrong with paper menus?
The trade secret is in what's not mentioned: what's wrong with paper menus?
Consider a menu to be like the API documentation for a restaurant. Keeping printed documentation in sync with what's available online is actually quite hard, especially if it's something that changes regularly. It feels like something that can be improved by keeping everything digital.
If a user insisted on written documentation for a project that moved quickly, how would you manage that? Would you give them a printed copy? Or would you say "the latest docs are at <uri>"?
If a user insisted on written documentation for a project that moved quickly, how would you manage that? Would you give them a printed copy? Or would you say "the latest docs are at <uri>"?
What I can't figure out is how you get around menus, does everybody use a tablet? I know Chili's has something a little like that these days, but seriously, I don't want to hold a tablet at dinner.
Gotta love hacker news: I think I just lost half my karma points near me for asking a question, suggesting that maybe, just maybe we shouldn't rush to judge people so negatively. Haters gonna hate...
Please don't violate the HN guidelines by going on about downvotes (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
I agree with you that the comment you replied to was unduly negative. It was probably unfair to downvote yours, though it wasn't particularly substantive.
We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11926020 and marked it off-topic.
I agree with you that the comment you replied to was unduly negative. It was probably unfair to downvote yours, though it wasn't particularly substantive.
We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11926020 and marked it off-topic.
Another one of these posts? When will they end.
"We shut down our startup"
Thanks for letting us know.
"We shut down our startup"
Thanks for letting us know.
I thought it was pretty interesting. Also the related comments here.
On average, my customers resell my products for about 2.5 times what they pay me. Depending on the customer, my products requires anywhere from no labor to 20 seconds of labor from restaurant staff.
The business was profitable its first month and has shown year-over-year growth every year in both product sales and revenue. Everything is done by myself and one other person (who joined after two years). We’ve spent $40 on marketing from that time I had business cards printed. We have higher per-month revenue than Dishero and there’s never been a monthly loss.
As food industry people, we use our understanding of the food environment to help our customers. We know the awfulness that is restaurant life and we accommodate our customers’ needs using what we know, what customers tell us, and what we see that isn’t stated.
Probably my favorite action is when I show up delivering what my customer has ordered, only to cancel the order because I know the customer does not need the items. These are not products I can simply sell some other day. When that happens—and it always does—my customers know our focus is taking care of them, not making every possible sale.
In short: We have relationships with customers, and relationships are always give-and-take arrangements. I’ve found that focusing on the giving ensures we make enough to keep giving.
All those self-congratulatory things said, I have no doubt that our success thus far can be attributed to customer service. No, that’s not saying anything novel, but—as always—it requires listening, watching, adaptability, frustration, flexibility, and a host of other behaviors/actions. It’s hard work and it’s not easy to get out of my own head to get inside someone else’s head.
The economic and non-economic results have been good. We haven’t lost any customers. The majority of our customers have found ways to get more products from us. All new business has come from word of mouth.
But I don’t think there’s anything novel in what we’ve done. I say that because I believe the success of every business come down to three factors: cash flow, logistics, and people skills. I don’t know of an instance in any industry where a great product overcame deficiency in those areas.
I was unfamiliar with Dishero prior to this piece. From what was shared, it’s hard to see if they did well with logistics or people skills (the author says they missed on cash flow). The author noted they had trouble overcoming the logistics of interacting with restaurant staff. If so, it’s difficult then to build relationships, so there goes people skills.
It certainly sounds, though, like the people behind Dishero had some good product-making skills. And I have nothing but respect for the decision to cut their losses. I can’t imagine the difficulty of that choice, and the accompanying pain, despite the apparent wisdom of that decision. My best to those people in their next pursuits.