India's Flipkart Has an Amazon Problem(bloomberg.com)
bloomberg.com
India's Flipkart Has an Amazon Problem
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-18/india-s-flipkart-has-an-amazon-problem
89 comments
> Flipkart also did something interesting that fueled their early growth - they offered 'Cash on Delivery' model, cause many people in India don't use Credit/Debit cards for shopping!
COD model was available way before Flipkart even existed.
> To me Flipkart's weakness in strategic vision started showing up in dealing with the fashion segment
The main weakness with Flipkart are some decisions like making Myntra app only shopping locations. They did it for a full 1 year after reverting back to website access. All this for just more customer data.
COD model was available way before Flipkart even existed.
> To me Flipkart's weakness in strategic vision started showing up in dealing with the fashion segment
The main weakness with Flipkart are some decisions like making Myntra app only shopping locations. They did it for a full 1 year after reverting back to website access. All this for just more customer data.
I never understood buying clothes online. Its really not the same as ordering the 1.5L Prestige pressure cooker.
Most Indians need to see the clothes, and may be even try them once for the right size. I'm extremely skeptical of buying any clothes or shoes unless I see them.
The only thing people really buy online are stuff they already know about(like the 1.5L Pressure cooker) or throw away stuff.
Most Indians need to see the clothes, and may be even try them once for the right size. I'm extremely skeptical of buying any clothes or shoes unless I see them.
The only thing people really buy online are stuff they already know about(like the 1.5L Pressure cooker) or throw away stuff.
If the clothes/shoes don't fit as expected, you just send it back...
Whoever, initiated and approved that move!!. Quick Google search showed this name - Punit Soni. Why did he leave? Fallout with the CEO and team?
How does a quick google search give you the name of the responsible person! That's some insider info :)
searching for "flipkart app only strategy responsible" showed this result http://www.businessinsider.com/flipkart-punil-soni-explains-...
on the first page as the 4rth result for me.
on the first page as the 4rth result for me.
>they offered 'Cash on Delivery' model
Nothing new. Online retailers had had that option for years before flipkart arrived on the scene.
Nothing new. Online retailers had had that option for years before flipkart arrived on the scene.
>I never understood such an upmarked Myntra acquisition.
Because it was a merger forced upon them by the common investors - Tiger & Accel.
Ah ok, that makes sense. A weakness then that they had to focus on making the merger work and keeping the investors happy, when there were more important things to do.
You underestimated the power of Amazon here - it's not technical prowess or recommendation engine. The war was never about technical prowess. It's Amazon's customer service which pulling Flipkart/Snapdeal down to the ground and beating them hard.
Agreed. I have been using Flipkart since they launched. Amazon customer service and shopping experience are just impeccable, esp when compared to the competition. And as for Snapdeal, it's usually something just short of a nightmare.
Another aspect is user experience while using their apps and websites. Click any Flipkart link from a mobile browser or an app like Twitter, you'll reach their `Install our app` page. Nothing else. You can't do anything if you have not installed their app. While Amazon simply lets me see the product or even buy it from right there while showing install app or view in app in a corner.
Whenever I see that Flipkart page asking me to install their app to see a product I feel satisfied that I don't have it installed. I just close the browser tab.
I just checked and last time I bought something from Flipkart was around 2 years ago. It was the Xiaomi MI3 phone which was available only on Flipkart. Last Snapdeal purchase was some 1.5 years ago. I wish I could spread my purchases across these portals just to help avoid a monopoly kind of scenario but these options are just too bad to go with.
Another aspect is user experience while using their apps and websites. Click any Flipkart link from a mobile browser or an app like Twitter, you'll reach their `Install our app` page. Nothing else. You can't do anything if you have not installed their app. While Amazon simply lets me see the product or even buy it from right there while showing install app or view in app in a corner.
Whenever I see that Flipkart page asking me to install their app to see a product I feel satisfied that I don't have it installed. I just close the browser tab.
I just checked and last time I bought something from Flipkart was around 2 years ago. It was the Xiaomi MI3 phone which was available only on Flipkart. Last Snapdeal purchase was some 1.5 years ago. I wish I could spread my purchases across these portals just to help avoid a monopoly kind of scenario but these options are just too bad to go with.
This is the correct answer. It is not discount or catalogue that is making Flipkart bleed, it is the customer service provided by their competitior. Amazon commitment to keeping customers happy is praise worthy. Many people do not buy very costly items from flipkart (namely phones, TVs, etc) because they are not really sure whether the return policy will hold and when will they get refund where as on the other hand, faith in Amazon is unshaken and people generally prefer it's platform for buying. Less I talk about Snapdeal, better it is. Snapdeal is not going to survive this war, Flipkart might. Almost nobody I know buys from Snapdeal because of their subpar customer service, though I agree that the sample set is not very large here.
Very true! I've practically experienced the difference.
I don't underestimate Amazon at all! Gave it a lot of credit for strategy, vendor management and logistics along with the technology.
Flipkart was not the first to introduce CoD. CoD in India is an ancient concept. Indian postal service ran a system where one could order products via mail and make the payment at the postal office. If I remember correctly it was called VPP and my grandfather had purchased things like imported Cigars and German radios using this system in 60s. Even in 90s Rediff and Indiatimes offered CoD.
CoD has been offered by almost every postal service in the world. It used to be one of the main ways of paying for goods you ordered, and remained so well into the 80's or 90's in countries where credit card penetration remained low. The main limitation in most countries have been the pickup at the post office.
I made my first CoD payment (for an Amazon order) when I lived in Japan in 2004.
I'm not surprised. Remnants of the old postal payment methods have been persistent in many European countries too. I'm from Norway, and despite being born in '75, between CoD and post/bank giro's cheques got killed off early enough that prior to moving to the UK in 2000 I only ever have vague memories from my childhood of my parents paying with checks - it was unusual in the early 80's. In the UK I still need a check book for the occasional (now finally very rare) instance where someone insists of being paid that way (the UK in theory has a giro system; in practice it only sees use for some very limited usage areas)
Because these methods were so widespread and credit card penetration was low (due to strict consumer credit laws, very, very few credit cards were available well into the 80's, and debit cards were often just ATM cards without a card number), they carried over to many online shops too.
Because these methods were so widespread and credit card penetration was low (due to strict consumer credit laws, very, very few credit cards were available well into the 80's, and debit cards were often just ATM cards without a card number), they carried over to many online shops too.
I've used both Flipkart and Amazon(India) sites.
1. For me, Flipkart's introduction was only due to the huge discounted prices. Also it was new, better and trusted experience compared to Ebay(India). And Amazon came late in the game. Mentally I associate Flipkart with huge Discounts (and Mi phones). And those discounts don't exist any more.
2. Amazon.in is just a great user experience. Flipkart.com still feels like a site with ads (but those aren't ads :). In its first few months - Amazon.in was terribly slow - but now thats never a problem. Now Amazon is easier to surf and look at and the rates are almost similar
3. Flipkart has a trust problem with many users and its just harder to fix that. On one account they had no-idea where the item was. After a lot of delay(about a week) - they sent me the same item twice and they didn't realize it. After a week I wrote back to them to collect the duplicate item and I got the response below:
"This is due to the fact that most our courier partners are tied up with us for deliveries alone and some of the locations are currently not serviceable by our pick-up partners.
Once the product is reaches us, I assure you that the courier charges you incur will be reimbursed to your Flipkart Wallet and you’ll receive an automated e-mail as soon as your wallet is credited. This has unlimited validity.
Kindly pack the product in the brand box if any with the MRP tag and send it to the below mentioned address with the return ID labeled on it. Also, please mention your address. "
Why would I hustle to courier them back? And "no pickup partners in that area" was a plain lie. I just try to avoid Flipkart after that incident and prefer buying from Amazon even if it is slightly costlier.
4. And when they went "Mobile-only"... I was like - I DO NOT WANT THAT APP (They reversed that BAD decision pretty soon)
1. For me, Flipkart's introduction was only due to the huge discounted prices. Also it was new, better and trusted experience compared to Ebay(India). And Amazon came late in the game. Mentally I associate Flipkart with huge Discounts (and Mi phones). And those discounts don't exist any more.
2. Amazon.in is just a great user experience. Flipkart.com still feels like a site with ads (but those aren't ads :). In its first few months - Amazon.in was terribly slow - but now thats never a problem. Now Amazon is easier to surf and look at and the rates are almost similar
3. Flipkart has a trust problem with many users and its just harder to fix that. On one account they had no-idea where the item was. After a lot of delay(about a week) - they sent me the same item twice and they didn't realize it. After a week I wrote back to them to collect the duplicate item and I got the response below:
"This is due to the fact that most our courier partners are tied up with us for deliveries alone and some of the locations are currently not serviceable by our pick-up partners.
Once the product is reaches us, I assure you that the courier charges you incur will be reimbursed to your Flipkart Wallet and you’ll receive an automated e-mail as soon as your wallet is credited. This has unlimited validity.
Kindly pack the product in the brand box if any with the MRP tag and send it to the below mentioned address with the return ID labeled on it. Also, please mention your address. "
Why would I hustle to courier them back? And "no pickup partners in that area" was a plain lie. I just try to avoid Flipkart after that incident and prefer buying from Amazon even if it is slightly costlier.
4. And when they went "Mobile-only"... I was like - I DO NOT WANT THAT APP (They reversed that BAD decision pretty soon)
I have not bought anything from Flipkart since more than one year. The company was doomed from the start, I had the chance to see it form their interview process. It is so broken that I felt it outrageous that it was the _hottest_ startup in India.
Amazon is awesome, because it provides low prices + quality service. It isn't just "discount retailing"
Flipkart built its reputation on motorola phones because Moto was exclusive on Flipkart, beyond that they never really picked up, the thing is Flipkart's quality reduced time over time and their approach itself was wrong, they started on "discounts" when they should have started on maintaining their customer service.
But typical Indian business, once they "grow" they don't care about customers anymore, the only puzzling thing is that how does Flipkart act like it from now itself, by no definition are they grown or successful or both.
Amazon is awesome, because it provides low prices + quality service. It isn't just "discount retailing"
Flipkart built its reputation on motorola phones because Moto was exclusive on Flipkart, beyond that they never really picked up, the thing is Flipkart's quality reduced time over time and their approach itself was wrong, they started on "discounts" when they should have started on maintaining their customer service.
But typical Indian business, once they "grow" they don't care about customers anymore, the only puzzling thing is that how does Flipkart act like it from now itself, by no definition are they grown or successful or both.
How is it typical of Indian businesses? I feel like this is overgeneralizing that aspect.
I can see what you mean in this specific instance though. I wonder if its just lack of experience in transitions from a small company to a bigger one in the India startup environment.
I can see what you mean in this specific instance though. I wonder if its just lack of experience in transitions from a small company to a bigger one in the India startup environment.
It is kind of the general business attitude here, unfortunately.
I disagree. That is over generalization.
No, it's just generalization, and that's why I said general business attitude.
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I would put the whole Indian business thing in a different way. India is a pretty difficult market. Its not that the companies don't care about the customers rather things get complicated too quickly.
Amazon had to cutback on its returns and refunds policy on mobile phones back in Feb/March. Comparatively I can still get refunds on Amazon US.
Logistics is also a nightmare in India which causes a lot of delays.
Amazon had to cutback on its returns and refunds policy on mobile phones back in Feb/March. Comparatively I can still get refunds on Amazon US.
Logistics is also a nightmare in India which causes a lot of delays.
The thing is I don't care about delays, refunds or returns.
All I care is that I get a good service. Amazon sends more communication, if their product is delayed, the make sure that they send a SMS. Of course we don't expect everything to be delivered daily
Basically it is obvious since Amazon has been matured into a good product since the past 30yrs!
All I care is that I get a good service. Amazon sends more communication, if their product is delayed, the make sure that they send a SMS. Of course we don't expect everything to be delivered daily
Basically it is obvious since Amazon has been matured into a good product since the past 30yrs!
>>Mentally I associate Flipkart with huge Discounts (and Mi phones). And those discounts don't exist any more.
Sure thing! Only a recent incident when my dad wanted to buy a phone. He isn't tech savvy, but I suggest him I can order one for him and have it delivered to the home. He asks if there are any discounts online? If not he asks why not just go to the shop and spend some time get a look and feel of the product and then buy.
Also regarding Mi phones. Trust me their flash sale was a major cause of concern why most customers felt humiliated to wait for hours and then discover the phones sold out within a second.
>>Flipkart has a trust problem with many users and its just harder to fix that.
A relative ordered two phones, they sent only one in CoD. Reason claimed was they were not sure customer would buy. It sort of became a cause of concern because he was buying for his sisters and it went to some kind of family misunderstanding that he bought it only for one sister.
He cribbed and did a good deal of negative ranting about Flipkart in a family function. My guess is a good 20-30 people were scared away from buying in Flipkart again.
Sure thing! Only a recent incident when my dad wanted to buy a phone. He isn't tech savvy, but I suggest him I can order one for him and have it delivered to the home. He asks if there are any discounts online? If not he asks why not just go to the shop and spend some time get a look and feel of the product and then buy.
Also regarding Mi phones. Trust me their flash sale was a major cause of concern why most customers felt humiliated to wait for hours and then discover the phones sold out within a second.
>>Flipkart has a trust problem with many users and its just harder to fix that.
A relative ordered two phones, they sent only one in CoD. Reason claimed was they were not sure customer would buy. It sort of became a cause of concern because he was buying for his sisters and it went to some kind of family misunderstanding that he bought it only for one sister.
He cribbed and did a good deal of negative ranting about Flipkart in a family function. My guess is a good 20-30 people were scared away from buying in Flipkart again.
Flipkart has far better ui. I can filter down my choices. Was never impressed with amazons search. Flipkart has good service as well. But i prefer amazon after the whole mobile only thing.
Amazon has earned my trust in every serious interaction I've had with them (live in USA and have prime subscription). Package never arrived? Reimbursed. Next day shipping and it took 2 days? Reimbursed. "New" book from reseller is clearly marked up with underlines and notes? Free book, no need to ship it back.
The trust I have with this company is the reason why I order from them so consistently, even if they are more expensive. People in India are surely learning the same thing.
The trust I have with this company is the reason why I order from them so consistently, even if they are more expensive. People in India are surely learning the same thing.
Completely agree -- BUT -- that's why they need to take the counterfeit items problem that is invading their site very seriously. They've bought a lot of good will with putting the customer first. But humans are easy to forget the good when bad things happen to them. Amazon could easily lose its hard won good will from the fake goods problem it has on its hands now.
I am confident they will handle it based only on the history I have with them. Killing the golden goose to protect a bunch of thieves makes zero sense.
But companies have made worse mistakes, so who knows.
But companies have made worse mistakes, so who knows.
> People in India are surely learning the same thing.
Flipkart from circa 2012 had that. The story should probably more about how they lost that trust.
I used to order things on Flipkart regularly (during my WFH years in Bangalore) because the couriers were employed by them, had multiple delivery attempts in a day and items in general came in a day or two to my doorstep.
At that point, it was as if they treated "shipping" as their primary product rather than the box they were delivering.
For my vantage point, the whole process starts to unravel with "WS Retail" and Flipkart's schism.
Suddenly, it looked there was a split-brain between buying, shipping and delivering.
Flipkart from circa 2012 had that. The story should probably more about how they lost that trust.
I used to order things on Flipkart regularly (during my WFH years in Bangalore) because the couriers were employed by them, had multiple delivery attempts in a day and items in general came in a day or two to my doorstep.
At that point, it was as if they treated "shipping" as their primary product rather than the box they were delivering.
For my vantage point, the whole process starts to unravel with "WS Retail" and Flipkart's schism.
Suddenly, it looked there was a split-brain between buying, shipping and delivering.
I wonder what the trust looks like in the other direction: if you can get free stuff by lying to customer service, what happens if that becomes popular in the customer base?
Meh, that doesn't seem a huge risk. Lying to customer service isn't a life hack. It's unethical and a crime. Depending on the specifics, it could be mail fraud, a felony.
Maybe I'm naive, but I believe most adults are not actually willing to commit fraud in writing. And besides the risk of prosecution, most people like to think of themselves as honest people. It's hard to continue that narrative if you're proactively engaging in fraud.
Maybe I'm naive, but I believe most adults are not actually willing to commit fraud in writing. And besides the risk of prosecution, most people like to think of themselves as honest people. It's hard to continue that narrative if you're proactively engaging in fraud.
I was wondering if this varies by country; both the expected extent to which one should game the system (e.g. prevalence of bribes) and actual ability of the authorities to prosecute people.
Ah, yeah, I bet you're right.
They are learning that very fast. See this : http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-techno... . People were abusing their customer service and they killed the goose. Now the whole return for mobile phones also factors in your buying history and is evaluated on case by case basis.
I stopped using Flipkart when they went pushy with their mobile app. If you went to their website on a mobile, it just insisted that you download the app, with no other option, which I didn't want to do. I just went to amazon.in
Edit: Coming to think of it, as a personal anecdote, I pretty much use the web for a lot of stuff now. News (firefox bookmarks), Social (twitter, linkedin), Shopping (amazon) - it's all the web. There used to be a time when I had privacy/battery sucking apps for them all. I still use apps for Navigation (google maps), Messaging (whatsapp, sms), Mail (gmail), Music (native player), and Cab-hailing (ola) though.
Edit: Coming to think of it, as a personal anecdote, I pretty much use the web for a lot of stuff now. News (firefox bookmarks), Social (twitter, linkedin), Shopping (amazon) - it's all the web. There used to be a time when I had privacy/battery sucking apps for them all. I still use apps for Navigation (google maps), Messaging (whatsapp, sms), Mail (gmail), Music (native player), and Cab-hailing (ola) though.
Just checked Flipkart's website and it's not even responsive. Horizontal scroll appears at width of 1284 pixel. I think this in 2016 is just insane.
Not sure what are you looking at. They do have a great mobile website and i could see it.
It's only mobile though. Try visiting it on a desktop browser. If you have your screen stretched out enough to be considered "landscape", you only get a screen showing "Please rotate your device"
Hey i didn't check on mobile, but i checked on desktop and tried minimising my browser and it isn't even a bit responsive. Used Chrome on linux to be specific.
Surely this is nothing that Flipkart cannot fixed without some lobbying?
I am not trying to be facetious, India is very protectionist. Amazon can only operate as a marketplace, not a seller, yet they have one seller accounting for as much as 50% of sales ... a little suspicious.
The Indian govt. has introduced regulations, no doubt from Flipkart lobbying, to remedy the situation [0].
Amazon must be dumping money into Indian operations in order to kill competitors and hope once they have a monopoly, they can raise prices and lobby the government themselves.
[0] http://fortune.com/2016/04/08/amazon-regulatory-hurdles-indi...
I am not trying to be facetious, India is very protectionist. Amazon can only operate as a marketplace, not a seller, yet they have one seller accounting for as much as 50% of sales ... a little suspicious.
The Indian govt. has introduced regulations, no doubt from Flipkart lobbying, to remedy the situation [0].
Amazon must be dumping money into Indian operations in order to kill competitors and hope once they have a monopoly, they can raise prices and lobby the government themselves.
[0] http://fortune.com/2016/04/08/amazon-regulatory-hurdles-indi...
We do not have lobbying in India. It's called bribing, and I doubt flipkart is doing it. Entrenched companies like reliance/tata are known for that but smaller ones like flipkart cannot take the risk of getting caught.
> Entrenched companies like reliance/tata are known for that
Tangential to the topic, but can you point out where has Tata been found to have been indulging in that? If I recall correctly, Tata has refused to work with the Government when it required them to do something illegal on multiple occasions. This is why Tata went out of the airline market.
Tangential to the topic, but can you point out where has Tata been found to have been indulging in that? If I recall correctly, Tata has refused to work with the Government when it required them to do something illegal on multiple occasions. This is why Tata went out of the airline market.
You can search for Tata group role in 2G scam. I don't know what is current status of case. But Tata group was lobbying with then Telecom minister. One example of probe into Tata conduct:
http://www.firstpost.com/business/corporate-business/2g-scam...
But you can find a lot about this case. The point being Tata or anyone are not absolutely clean.
http://www.firstpost.com/business/corporate-business/2g-scam...
But you can find a lot about this case. The point being Tata or anyone are not absolutely clean.
Amazon is like Google, they provide such an excellent service that customers use them.
Uber is being used despite the fact that it is technically illegal because it is so popular with the users.
users matter, even if Amazon dumped billion dollar's in Modi's account, all he can do is urge people to use amazon, he can't or rather no govt official can make flipkart go away.
Also if you read Amazon's book, the story of Amazon, they never ever raised prices, they always have reduced prices all the time. And we Indians have a nice behaviour, we always buy from where we have the lowest price possible!
Uber is being used despite the fact that it is technically illegal because it is so popular with the users.
users matter, even if Amazon dumped billion dollar's in Modi's account, all he can do is urge people to use amazon, he can't or rather no govt official can make flipkart go away.
Also if you read Amazon's book, the story of Amazon, they never ever raised prices, they always have reduced prices all the time. And we Indians have a nice behaviour, we always buy from where we have the lowest price possible!
Here's what Flipkart is planning to do about it.
- Shrink marketplace model. - Increase inventory led sales. - Tighter quality control. - Work with large retailers & cut down on the seller base. - Bring back private labels. - Build financial services ecosystem.
A detailed account on how Flipkart is trying to mend its ways is here: http://goo.gl/zRZ1FP.
- Shrink marketplace model. - Increase inventory led sales. - Tighter quality control. - Work with large retailers & cut down on the seller base. - Bring back private labels. - Build financial services ecosystem.
A detailed account on how Flipkart is trying to mend its ways is here: http://goo.gl/zRZ1FP.
That is the typical Indian business model, first be humble and when things aren't working then jack up the prices and stop treating customers as king
FK sold me a FlipKart first membership for Rs. 500/year. When I tried to use it, I realized it was only for products sold by WS Retail. Of which there is an ever shrinking quantity.
Pretty crappy experience honestly.
Pretty crappy experience honestly.
Amazon has a lot of cash & experience to pamper customers but once it wins over, all that'll change. The best outcome for millions of customers is to have 1 or 2 strong competitors to Amazon that'll be around for a long time to come. Else you'll be stuck with Amazon's monopoly !
Amazon never changed in US. They are number 1 here
Prices have steadily crept upward, especially since Amazon started to branch out into video streaming. Prices have become so bad that I am discontinuing my prime membership when it runs out in 6 weeks.
I am consistently finding things cheaper on any of eBay, jet.com and Newegg. With shop runner from my Amex card, I often get free second day on Newegg. Then jet.com gives second day for free. eBay does not, but unless the seller is in China, I get fairly quick shipping.
In any case, monoprice and newegg are consistently cheaper on their main items (cables at monoprice and computer parts at newegg) while jet.com and eBay often beat Amazon by incredible margins on just about anything. I recently brought a Xeon E5-1670 for only $40 and 5lbs of paprika for only $10.49 a lb from eBay. Amazon's pricing was far higher.
I also purchased various pantry items and bananas from jet.com. They were not only cheaper than Amazon, but they were cheaper than the best brick and mortar store deals (which are also consistently better than Amazon), in one case being better by a factor of 2. The bananas were also packaged with reusable refrigerant packs that would have likely cost me more than the $0.81 each of the two banana bunches cost.
I am at the point where I am ready to stop looking up prices on Amazon because I expect one of the other sites to not only have the item, but sell it for significantly less. If by some miracle Amazon does sell it for less, it ought to appear in a search on Google shopping or pricegrabber.com.
I feel like Amazon has started taking its customers for granted. It is like they no longer feel compelled to compete on price because they expect people not to compare under the now false assumption that Amazon's pricing is good. Getting good pricing from Amazon requires using a side like camel camel camel or price zombie and playing a waiting game with them when the price is high, which is almost always the case.
Also, unlike Amazon, you can often stack cash back sites like top cash back, be frugal and fat wallet with purchases at other sites thanks to their affiliate programs. There are even comparison cashback sites like cashbackholic and cashbackmonitor. eBay is the only notable exception in making cashback limited to a small number of categories at most cashback sites.
If you have not noticed a change, you do likely not do comparison shopping to be able to have noticed.
I am consistently finding things cheaper on any of eBay, jet.com and Newegg. With shop runner from my Amex card, I often get free second day on Newegg. Then jet.com gives second day for free. eBay does not, but unless the seller is in China, I get fairly quick shipping.
In any case, monoprice and newegg are consistently cheaper on their main items (cables at monoprice and computer parts at newegg) while jet.com and eBay often beat Amazon by incredible margins on just about anything. I recently brought a Xeon E5-1670 for only $40 and 5lbs of paprika for only $10.49 a lb from eBay. Amazon's pricing was far higher.
I also purchased various pantry items and bananas from jet.com. They were not only cheaper than Amazon, but they were cheaper than the best brick and mortar store deals (which are also consistently better than Amazon), in one case being better by a factor of 2. The bananas were also packaged with reusable refrigerant packs that would have likely cost me more than the $0.81 each of the two banana bunches cost.
I am at the point where I am ready to stop looking up prices on Amazon because I expect one of the other sites to not only have the item, but sell it for significantly less. If by some miracle Amazon does sell it for less, it ought to appear in a search on Google shopping or pricegrabber.com.
I feel like Amazon has started taking its customers for granted. It is like they no longer feel compelled to compete on price because they expect people not to compare under the now false assumption that Amazon's pricing is good. Getting good pricing from Amazon requires using a side like camel camel camel or price zombie and playing a waiting game with them when the price is high, which is almost always the case.
Also, unlike Amazon, you can often stack cash back sites like top cash back, be frugal and fat wallet with purchases at other sites thanks to their affiliate programs. There are even comparison cashback sites like cashbackholic and cashbackmonitor. eBay is the only notable exception in making cashback limited to a small number of categories at most cashback sites.
If you have not noticed a change, you do likely not do comparison shopping to be able to have noticed.
I noticed Amazon are not the cheapest anymore. However often the free shipping option with Amazon is not matched by other retailers. Amazon looks more expensive unless you factor that in, then they are the same or cheaper.
However if you spend enough at another retailer to get free shipping then it can be a much better deal.
I assume Amazon's scale allows them to put the delivery companies under a lot of pressure, so they push the free delivery to smaller spends which means they don't have to compete so strongly on the item price.
However if you spend enough at another retailer to get free shipping then it can be a much better deal.
I assume Amazon's scale allows them to put the delivery companies under a lot of pressure, so they push the free delivery to smaller spends which means they don't have to compete so strongly on the item price.
Amazon has hasn't had any serious competition in the US for many years, yet it still offers great customer experience.
Flipkart still has a big 'brand equity' outside metro. Today in small town online shopping means 'Flipkart' (the way Search = Google). And in these places eCommerce solves real life problems. The addressable market is huge and still untapped to large extent.
Most of these places 'Amazon' is still an alien word (but that is changing - albeit slowly).
However, the way I see it there is a little window where Flipkart can still leverage their brand reach, by not loosing the customers while they cleanup their act. Most of these customers would still put up with troubles as they perhaps have a big inertia in moving to a new shopping experience. But it is matter of time.
Flipkart in my experience do not know how to hire people. I have seen top level product management and design - they would not stand a chance when it would come to out thinking and out executing Amazon.
[Edit] And add the fact that Amazon India can willy nilly use the code base of Amazon.com. Till sometime back (perhaps even today, haven't checked recently) Flipkart didn't have any personalization feature in their mobile app. There was no mechanism of surfacing products based upon purchase history or even browsing pattern. It didn't even remember where I last closed the app - every d*&^% time I had to navigate and reach to the place where I was interrupted and had left the app.
Most of these places 'Amazon' is still an alien word (but that is changing - albeit slowly).
However, the way I see it there is a little window where Flipkart can still leverage their brand reach, by not loosing the customers while they cleanup their act. Most of these customers would still put up with troubles as they perhaps have a big inertia in moving to a new shopping experience. But it is matter of time.
Flipkart in my experience do not know how to hire people. I have seen top level product management and design - they would not stand a chance when it would come to out thinking and out executing Amazon.
[Edit] And add the fact that Amazon India can willy nilly use the code base of Amazon.com. Till sometime back (perhaps even today, haven't checked recently) Flipkart didn't have any personalization feature in their mobile app. There was no mechanism of surfacing products based upon purchase history or even browsing pattern. It didn't even remember where I last closed the app - every d*&^% time I had to navigate and reach to the place where I was interrupted and had left the app.
Personal observations: Indian consumers are highly price sensitive, and will usually go for the cheapest option. Saving money, bargaining and price comparison are almost ingrained in the culture. :) With this in mind, I wonder who buys from Flipkart and what reasons they have to buy from there (just familiarity?), because its prices are usually a lot higher than Amazon.in or Paytm or Snapdeal. The product selection (in electronics, kitchen items) is also smaller on Flipkart compared to Amazon.in.
Whenever I have checked Flipkart in the past to see if the price was comparatively lesser, I've provided feedback on the price, the specs listed (incomplete), and so on, right on the product page. But it doesn't look like any of that feedback was ever acted upon. For what it's worth, Amazon.in didn't act on any feedback that I have provided several times either (it fails miserably on simple things like sorting products by price or by another attribute, and hasn't gotten it right till today). Technology and website wise, both Flipkart and Amazon.in look like they're designed and developed by incompetent development teams, along with a product data team that has very little clue on product attributes and how to list them. The managers in both companies don't seem to care either.
The app-only strategy by Flipkart (which was quickly reverted) and Myntra (reverted last month) was a bad idea from the beginning. The apps involve too many taps and navigation back and forth between screens to refine searches or find things. The more tech-savvy people distrust apps and also prefer a better shopping experience by using larger screen desktop/laptop browsers to open multiple tabs and compare prices (and maybe not logging in and clearing older cookies to avoid any user profile based bias that changes prices for certain users).
Whenever I have checked Flipkart in the past to see if the price was comparatively lesser, I've provided feedback on the price, the specs listed (incomplete), and so on, right on the product page. But it doesn't look like any of that feedback was ever acted upon. For what it's worth, Amazon.in didn't act on any feedback that I have provided several times either (it fails miserably on simple things like sorting products by price or by another attribute, and hasn't gotten it right till today). Technology and website wise, both Flipkart and Amazon.in look like they're designed and developed by incompetent development teams, along with a product data team that has very little clue on product attributes and how to list them. The managers in both companies don't seem to care either.
The app-only strategy by Flipkart (which was quickly reverted) and Myntra (reverted last month) was a bad idea from the beginning. The apps involve too many taps and navigation back and forth between screens to refine searches or find things. The more tech-savvy people distrust apps and also prefer a better shopping experience by using larger screen desktop/laptop browsers to open multiple tabs and compare prices (and maybe not logging in and clearing older cookies to avoid any user profile based bias that changes prices for certain users).
I remember reading about Flipkart when they turned off their website. At the time I thought that was a potential terrible sign of things to come (moving to walled garden mobile apps instead of URLs and websites).
Thankfully, hardly anyone of consequence followed suit and the move was widely seen as a disaster.
Thankfully, hardly anyone of consequence followed suit and the move was widely seen as a disaster.
They came back to the web with "Flipkart Lite"[1]. Despite the name it's actually pretty good from what I've heard.
[1] http://stories.flipkart.com/introducing-flipkart-lite/
[1] http://stories.flipkart.com/introducing-flipkart-lite/
In my opinion Amazon helped Flipkart grow. If there wasn't any worthy opponent the growth would have been less aggressive. Now that the aggressive growth has plateaued, it makes sense to grow smarter.
Fact is, Amazon in India picked up in last 2years only while Flipkart already made its mark and doing billion dollar business.
What changed, in your opinion? Why now, for Amazon?
As an ex-myntra (part of flipkart) engineer, the efficiency of the engineering systems is too low. Tried too many things by taking customers satisfaction for toss. App only is the worst thing they tried out and it backfired alot. At the same time Amazon stuck to basic principles like customer satisfaction and quality of the services.
That is wrong. Flipkart made Amazon to come to India and take this market seriously. If there was no Flipkart, Amazon would not have bothered to come to India for a few more years (citing regulations and blah blah blah)
FK is done and dusted. It still has a strong brand presence but it has failed to capture the younger segment of the market. And this is the segment that often tells older consumers where to shop.
Case in point: my mom doesn't know what Amazon is, but knows about Flipkart. When she asked me how to shop for a particular item on FK, I told her to use Amazon instead.
She is now an Amazon customer. To her, it's one and the same thing, and Amazon is more trustworthy because it was recommended by her tech-savvy son
Case in point: my mom doesn't know what Amazon is, but knows about Flipkart. When she asked me how to shop for a particular item on FK, I told her to use Amazon instead.
She is now an Amazon customer. To her, it's one and the same thing, and Amazon is more trustworthy because it was recommended by her tech-savvy son
China's e-commerce sites don't have such a worry. They have Great Firewall. Trade barrier works! /s
I don't think that /s is necessary. I think the years have proved that china's trade barrier has worked wonders for home grown businesses. Look at didi chuxing. Blindly aped uber and worth more than them now. On the other hand look at India's own uber competitor: ola. They're struggling almost as much as flipkart while uber thunders ahead.
But as an Indian consumer, I have happy that I have a choice and I believe in the long run the more open Indian market would prove more beneficial to local businesses.
Their market caps notwithstanding - Alibaba, Didi Kuaidi and Baidu are not global companies. India already has one of the largest global ad networks outside of Google i.e. InMobi and I believe over the next 20 years, you'll see much more truly global Internet companies started out of India vs. China.
Their market caps notwithstanding - Alibaba, Didi Kuaidi and Baidu are not global companies. India already has one of the largest global ad networks outside of Google i.e. InMobi and I believe over the next 20 years, you'll see much more truly global Internet companies started out of India vs. China.
Unfortunately most Chinese are not tech workers reaping in cash, they're consumers who have to make do with poorer quality local offerings like Baidu and Weibo.
Of course trade protectionism is good for the protected industries. That should be self-evident.
The more important question is whether the benefit to domestic industry offsets the harm to consumers. Traditional economics would say no and I'd be inclined to agree.
The more important question is whether the benefit to domestic industry offsets the harm to consumers. Traditional economics would say no and I'd be inclined to agree.
Amazon is years ahead in customer support and services. Yes. but in terms of products sold, I'd argue that they are mostly the same: made in China or southeast Asia.
Almost anything can be bought on Amazon, but yes the majority of all products in the world are produced in Asia. I'm not sure why that's a bad thing.
>and worth more than them now
You cannot trust any valuation that comes out of China.
You cannot trust any valuation that comes out of China.
Works for whom? Definitely not the consumer. I am happy my friends and family are enjoying the reliability and customer support of Amazon. I wished flipkart upped their game, but apparently they did not. Amazon has a well of experience, even though the market is new, they know what parameters to look for and best of all, can wait for a decade before turning profit.
I still don't understand why they made the weird move to be "Mobile Only". It was insane.
On a side note, I'm a little weary of CEOs who have pictures of Steve Jobs up on walls and try hard to emulate him. Just because that style of leadership worked at Apple doesn't mean it works everywhere.
On a side note, I'm a little weary of CEOs who have pictures of Steve Jobs up on walls and try hard to emulate him. Just because that style of leadership worked at Apple doesn't mean it works everywhere.
A while ago.. I read a very interesting and detailed article about the same thing..
http://www.foundingfuel.com/article/saving-private-flipkart/
Worth reading to compare and highlights the some of the points in the above article with much more detail..
Worth reading to compare and highlights the some of the points in the above article with much more detail..
I'm curious: How does an ecommerce physical product delivery service in India solve a major problem, namely that there are taxes and customs tariffs when goods are transported exclusively within India, from warehouse to customer delivery location, across Indian state boundaries? I've seen the queues of cargo trucks waiting at state borders for tax purposes and it seems like a grossly inefficient bureaucratic nightmare.
Flipkart has had this coming. They grew too confident, even to the extent of making significantly anti customer moves. Whereas amazon make you feel like you are the center of the universe.
Another problem is that amazon's retail business is not a big earner, even after so many years. But all flipkart has is retail. They don't have the technical superiority to do something like aws.
Think about it. Flipkart offices are some of the best places to work. They hire the smartest, pay a lot and there's a lot of autonomy at work. But u didn't make sense for maintaining a website. A small team of IT guys can do that. They are competing in retail, where other stuff like logistics and partnerships and marketing matter. Not the design of the website. What are all those software engineers doing? They're definitely not building an aws. They're just maintaining the website.
Another problem is that amazon's retail business is not a big earner, even after so many years. But all flipkart has is retail. They don't have the technical superiority to do something like aws.
Think about it. Flipkart offices are some of the best places to work. They hire the smartest, pay a lot and there's a lot of autonomy at work. But u didn't make sense for maintaining a website. A small team of IT guys can do that. They are competing in retail, where other stuff like logistics and partnerships and marketing matter. Not the design of the website. What are all those software engineers doing? They're definitely not building an aws. They're just maintaining the website.
Their engineers are not only maintaining that website, they are -
1. Maintaining app
2. Recommendation service
3. Search
4. Analytics
5. Modeling
6. Handling a website used by millions of users is not an easy thing
Not trying to defend flipkart, only sharing my perspective
Not trying to defend flipkart, only sharing my perspective
> What are all those software engineers doing? They're definitely not building an aws. They're just maintaining the website.
Consider that Amazon built up the IT capability to build AWS because of the thousands of engineers they had hired that were "just maintaining the website". It's not a simple problem.
Consider that Amazon built up the IT capability to build AWS because of the thousands of engineers they had hired that were "just maintaining the website". It's not a simple problem.
[deleted]
1. amzn.in
2. flipkart.com
3. snapdeal.com
AND
4. shopclues.com
2. flipkart.com
3. snapdeal.com
AND
4. shopclues.com
Am I missing something here?
Only the top 2 are comparable:
1. amzn.in (90)
2. flipkart.com (80)
3. snapdeal.com (40)
AND
4. shopclues.com (<10)
1. amzn.in (90)
2. flipkart.com (80)
3. snapdeal.com (40)
AND
4. shopclues.com (<10)
Must say though that Amazon's recommendation engine and technical prowess in general is superior. I imagine so are Amazon's warehousing robots and logistics. Also from what I once heard, their Vendor Managers are more efficient (and aggressive) in dealing with the merchants.
To me Flipkart's weakness in strategic vision started showing up in dealing with the fashion segment - I never understood such an upmarked Myntra acquisition. They already had the fashion segment on their site back then! And then they got even more heady and switched to an App-Only Shop for couple of days. Whoever, initiated and approved that move!! (Side note: Flipkart founders are ex-Amazonians.)