Women’s Gymnastics Deserves Better TV Coverage(newyorker.com)
newyorker.com
Women’s Gymnastics Deserves Better TV Coverage
http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/how-to-really-watch-olympic-gymnastics
67 comments
I blame the Huffpo. These narratives are their bread and butter and that site is incredibly popular with liberals. Its odd that liberals went from their 60s era 'freedom from authority' ideals to becoming authorities themselves and engaging in exactly what authorities back then were doing: being overly moralistic, shaming sexuality - especially for boys, creating narratives of 'the other,' being dishonest to win political points, shaming/chiding for social control, etc.
The Huffpo is about as far as you can get from the Summer of Love as humanely possible. Regressive liberalism is a real thing and barely recognized. It seems liberals have very much bought into shaming and apparently it gets results (ad revenue, facebook likes, etc).
The Huffpo is about as far as you can get from the Summer of Love as humanely possible. Regressive liberalism is a real thing and barely recognized. It seems liberals have very much bought into shaming and apparently it gets results (ad revenue, facebook likes, etc).
>Not enough drama for you? How about the fact that gymnasts risk their health every time they step onto the mat?
So do most athletes, honestly - especially those at the Olympics. Weight lifters hauling up double their weight above their head? Swimmers who have muscles strong enough to dislocate their own joints? Pole vaulters hefting themselves two stories in the air? Cyclists going 40+mph down roads with minimal protective gear?
The capabilities of even the worst olympic contenders boggles my mind. They should all get air time.
So do most athletes, honestly - especially those at the Olympics. Weight lifters hauling up double their weight above their head? Swimmers who have muscles strong enough to dislocate their own joints? Pole vaulters hefting themselves two stories in the air? Cyclists going 40+mph down roads with minimal protective gear?
The capabilities of even the worst olympic contenders boggles my mind. They should all get air time.
What you quoted is a criticism of American sports-media, not Americans.
If you subscribe to the theory that the media is in a deliberate conspiracy against the public, that might hold.
If you believe (as I do) that the media is mostly in the business of giving people what they want (not what they say they want, but what they actually choose to reward with ad impressions) then they are exactly the same.
If you believe (as I do) that the media is mostly in the business of giving people what they want (not what they say they want, but what they actually choose to reward with ad impressions) then they are exactly the same.
That's not how mass media works. 10,010,000 mildly interested people beats 10,000,000 highly interested people. If you care about the sport you're going to watch even if the coverage I crap, thus people who care are ignorable if they can get an extra 0.01% of viewers or just save some money.
So yes there are dumb people in the US and NBC wants them to tune in. But, that says little about the rest of the US population.
So yes there are dumb people in the US and NBC wants them to tune in. But, that says little about the rest of the US population.
No conspiracy is required. I just think they're doing the easier thing that follows narratives from non-sports programming, instead of doing the harder thing and getting experts who are good at explaining a sport to non-experts.
This.
It's becoming rather annoying how "holier than thou" the modern American has become. What's so distressing, is that these authors/people, never recognize their own shortcomings, but are so adept at pointing out others.
It's becoming rather annoying how "holier than thou" the modern American has become. What's so distressing, is that these authors/people, never recognize their own shortcomings, but are so adept at pointing out others.
> How about the fact that gymnasts risk their health every time they step onto the mat?
Obligatory
http://xkcd.com/1701/
Obligatory
http://xkcd.com/1701/
I think all the events need better coverage. I've seen more footage of Ryan Seacrest drinking caipirinhas than that of the sports I'd enjoy watching.
Is it too much to ask in 2016 for a single web page that lets me filter down to each event and see all the heats leading up to the final? Or how about a single page with all the events happening live so I can put the one I actually want to watch?
Is it too much to ask in 2016 for a single web page that lets me filter down to each event and see all the heats leading up to the final? Or how about a single page with all the events happening live so I can put the one I actually want to watch?
I think this is the real complaint. Women's gymnastics hasn't been any less well covered than things like weightlifting, it's just been crappy coverage from top to bottom.
Presumably The New Yorker recognized that "women's gymnastics is getting shortchanged" is a better human-interest story than "the US Olympic coverage is terrible", but the second option has more substance.
Presumably The New Yorker recognized that "women's gymnastics is getting shortchanged" is a better human-interest story than "the US Olympic coverage is terrible", but the second option has more substance.
You mean this?
http://www.nbcolympics.com/live-stream-schedule
or do you mean this?
http://www.nbcolympics.com/full-schedule
http://www.nbcolympics.com/live-stream-schedule
or do you mean this?
http://www.nbcolympics.com/full-schedule
Thanks! I think that might be what I'm looking for but, try as it might, my browser won't load any of the streams. Not sure if it's plugin related or if the site is simply being hugged to death.
By any chance do you use the HTTPS Everywhere browser extension? If so, try disabling it. A friend of mine just figured out (after a few days not understanding the strange errors) that the extension is incompatible with nbcolympics.com.
If I got all my information about the Olympics from watching NBC, I'd believe that only a few events are taking place, and that only Americans (and a handful of people from other countries) are competing.
"Look! The American took 3th place! Let's interview her and show a little mini-biography of her life and not even show or mention the Australian and Chinese competitors who took gold and silver!"
"Look! The American took 3th place! Let's interview her and show a little mini-biography of her life and not even show or mention the Australian and Chinese competitors who took gold and silver!"
I watch weightlifting pretty closely, and most of the globe's networks seem to stream the BBC feed. It's one of the better broadcasts out there -- really knowledgeable commentators, completely neutral, just there for the joy of the sport and competition.
All of the globe's networks are actually using one stream from the Olympic Broadcasting Services http://www.obs.tv/
I found the making of videos they have on that page interesting. Basically the OBS are the ones doing the actual filming and broadcasting of all the Olympic events , and then all the broadcasters of the world rebroadcast that. They also provide all the onscreen graphics.
So NBC could send down a tech crew and an uplink truck and we would still get full coverage of the Olympics minus all the color commentary.
I found the making of videos they have on that page interesting. Basically the OBS are the ones doing the actual filming and broadcasting of all the Olympic events , and then all the broadcasters of the world rebroadcast that. They also provide all the onscreen graphics.
So NBC could send down a tech crew and an uplink truck and we would still get full coverage of the Olympics minus all the color commentary.
Oh awesome, thanks for the info. I'm watching a CBC stream and it's CBC branded -- but I know NBC and BBC show the same footage, and at least BBC the same commentators.
My first thought seeing this article was "Since when? NBC streamed gymnastic coverage in place of showing weightlifting".
The BBC feed for weightlifting has been excellent (and it's a sport that needs it, with more 'meta' strategy than many things), while NBC's coverage has been US-obsessed and tepid-to-awful for pretty much every competition.
The BBC feed for weightlifting has been excellent (and it's a sport that needs it, with more 'meta' strategy than many things), while NBC's coverage has been US-obsessed and tepid-to-awful for pretty much every competition.
The BBC feed is great. When the Olympics are current I rent a linode in the UK so I can stream it. There's probably another way, but it only costs a few bucks.
Please don't assume it is much better outside the US. If you watch the winter games while visiting Japan you would think that the entire Olympics was just a few minor events that served as bookends for the ski jumping competition. In the UK I get good options from the BBC but event then for major sports the coverage focuses on the athletes that the audience cares about, which is basically team GB plus any major names in the sport or expected winners. It is better for the lesser-known sports where you just about everyone is unknown; at least I did get to see all of the rowing and fencing qualifications and medal rounds (no joke, my daughters are into both events and so we spent a lot of time watching.)
If it really bothers you I think that a decent proxy and the BBC iPlayer can get you good all-around event coverage...or so people have told me...
If it really bothers you I think that a decent proxy and the BBC iPlayer can get you good all-around event coverage...or so people have told me...
Although it's quite buggy (particularly with Chromecast), doesn't NBC Sports allow you to do that? I've watched most all the prelims I was hoping to watch. Of course you need a TV provider to login.
I think they have that. [0] lets you filter by sport (or athelete) to see all the results, and move ahead and back day by day. And I think this[1] is basically what your second query is looking for
[0] - http://results.nbcolympics.com/schedules/ [1] - https://www.nbcolympics.com/live-stream-schedule
[0] - http://results.nbcolympics.com/schedules/ [1] - https://www.nbcolympics.com/live-stream-schedule
In Germany we have something like 6 live streams from the TV stations.[1] It is pretty great, you can watch an entire event, and potentially understand what they are doing. By contrast the TV coverage is half of the time some guy in a studio talking, and then they will show a single attempt by some German athlete, which is over before I have identified which sport they are showing.
[1] (No idea if these only work in Germany... )
http://rio.zdf.de/live/
http://rio.sportschau.de/rio2016/live/Alle-Livestreams-von-O...
[1] (No idea if these only work in Germany... )
http://rio.zdf.de/live/
http://rio.sportschau.de/rio2016/live/Alle-Livestreams-von-O...
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Sports coverage in The Netherlands is mostly drama free and during the olympics the commentators take their time to explain things. If foreigners would watch they probably would think we have the most boring sports channels of the world.
The olympic games are also covered without commercials. Maybe NBC is spicing things up to make sure people don't go away during commercials?
The olympic games are also covered without commercials. Maybe NBC is spicing things up to make sure people don't go away during commercials?
I don't know if my case has anything to do with this.
I (male) really enjoy watching all gymnastics (both female and male competitions). I always sort of admire people who can perform feats that I cannot do (I used to watch Bob Ross for hours, for example. I know, kill me, but I was mesmerized by his works).
Anyway, one day I was watching the female competition and a relative told me that it was "creepy to be watching girls." It kind of took me aback. Since then, I avoid it.
There has been this sad evolution in our society where adult males interacting with girls or teenagers in a normal way is still considered "creepy." Sadly, I don't hug my nieces anymore, for example.
It's sad.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the drop in stats.
I (male) really enjoy watching all gymnastics (both female and male competitions). I always sort of admire people who can perform feats that I cannot do (I used to watch Bob Ross for hours, for example. I know, kill me, but I was mesmerized by his works).
Anyway, one day I was watching the female competition and a relative told me that it was "creepy to be watching girls." It kind of took me aback. Since then, I avoid it.
There has been this sad evolution in our society where adult males interacting with girls or teenagers in a normal way is still considered "creepy." Sadly, I don't hug my nieces anymore, for example.
It's sad.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the drop in stats.
Anyway, one day I was watching the female competition and a relative told me that it was "creepy to be watching girls." It kind of took me aback. Since then, I avoid it.
So a relative with "issues" gets to determine what you watch? I don't know what your perverted relative is watching (has NBC gotten that bad?), but I'm watching athletes pour their hearts out in a gymnastics routine.
So a relative with "issues" gets to determine what you watch? I don't know what your perverted relative is watching (has NBC gotten that bad?), but I'm watching athletes pour their hearts out in a gymnastics routine.
You can't win - if you enjoy watching a sport with females participating in it, you are a "creep". If you watch men's diving you are "obviously gay".
Please, please do hug your nieces (and nephews).
Please, please do hug your nieces (and nephews).
By stopping watching aren't you tacitly agreeing with your relative? Why not just tell them that it isn't and continue watching?
You really should meet my relatives.
I am a woman who used to do gymnastics. I agree that you should grow a set. The world is not made better by decent men caving to this crap. It is made better by decent men giving push back and helping to set the standard for how to be decent. Tacitly agreeing that the only reason a man might want to watch women's gymnastics is for creepy reasons makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.
It is sort of like that line about "If we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." It is tautological. And it would be really nice if more men connected with women for non creepy reasons instead of decent men bailing because, gosh, WHAT WILL ASSHOLES THINK????
Assholes gonna asshole. You cannot let them set the standard.
It is sort of like that line about "If we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." It is tautological. And it would be really nice if more men connected with women for non creepy reasons instead of decent men bailing because, gosh, WHAT WILL ASSHOLES THINK????
Assholes gonna asshole. You cannot let them set the standard.
Grow a set? sigh
Regardless, everybody chill and just tell me this is not out of this world:
http://i.imgur.com/lIcKou6.gifv
Regardless, everybody chill and just tell me this is not out of this world:
http://i.imgur.com/lIcKou6.gifv
You're not making that sound appealing.
No, you really should grow a pair :-)
I am guessing traditionally, up until 10 years ago, it was other countries which did better at gymnastics (especially rivals like Soviet Union, Romania, China). It was just not interesting for Americans to watch those who we were told are our enemies win gold medals.
Now that our team is doing better, I can see there being an interest in broadcasting it better.
Now that our team is doing better, I can see there being an interest in broadcasting it better.
Pre-Phelps swimming, women's gymnastics was the focal point of US summer olympic TV coverage.
The US women's team was very competitive in the 90's and 00's.
The US women's team was very competitive in the 90's and 00's.
Pure anecdote, but off the top of my head I could name at least ten women's Olympics gymnasts from the past twenty years and not a single swimmer other than Phellps and Lochte. The Bela Karolyi era was very, very good for US gymnasts and TV coverage followed. It seems to be the summer games analogue to figure skating in the winter games, Americans are consistently competitive and attention/coverage follows, particularly given the perceived demographics of Olympics viewers vis a vis other sporting events.
> up until 10 years ago
This made me curious, as it didn't match my recollection. Checking the medal counts, it's apparent that the USA women's gymnastics team has been very competitive for roughly 30 years now. It's fair to wonder why the coverage isn't better by now.
This made me curious, as it didn't match my recollection. Checking the medal counts, it's apparent that the USA women's gymnastics team has been very competitive for roughly 30 years now. It's fair to wonder why the coverage isn't better by now.
Looking there up until 2004 I see mostly SU, Romania, China. There is only a single gold for US in 1984 by Retton and a silver for Miller in 92.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_g...
That kind of jives with my recollection how medals were distributed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_g...
That kind of jives with my recollection how medals were distributed.
You're ignoring the team all-around. The US got silver in 84, bronze in 92, gold in 96, and bronze in 2000. I think it's fair to say that the US as a team was one of the dominant forces in that time period, even if they didn't have the individual medalists.
Bit longer than 10 years ago. Americans have been very into gymnastics at the Olympics since at least Mary Lou Retton in 84, and the 96 Olympics the womens team was a huge part of the storyline. Same with Beijing and London.
Mens generally doesn't get the same attention in the US, but the womens team tend to be some of the most highly recognized and reported on during and after the games.
Mens generally doesn't get the same attention in the US, but the womens team tend to be some of the most highly recognized and reported on during and after the games.
Mary Lou Retton. `84, LA Olympics.
Gynmastics was a Big Deal then.
Gynmastics was a Big Deal then.
I bet. But it was one gold medal in what 50 years?
No, there was also Shannon Miller and the other Americans in '96, the first time that the US team won a gold medal in competition with the Russian team.
Gymnastics has been hugely popular in the USA during my entire life (more than 40 years, I'm afraid).
Gymnastics has been hugely popular in the USA during my entire life (more than 40 years, I'm afraid).
I'm sorry, but this critic is way off base about NBC's gymnastics coverage. NBC should be applauded for letting the performances speak for themselves and having the self-restraint to focus on what the gymnasts do well rather than poisoning the mood by expounding on minor imperfections.
Additionally, I didn't get a single hint NBC was characterizing these gymnasts as 'teenage pixies,' or trying to deceive the viewer to ramp up the drama. NBC let the images do the talking, and the US team was a picture of control, power, and intensity.
Last night the US had essentially won the competition before the floor exercise, but still, as NBC showed the US gymnasts warm-up, I was overcome with a realization of just how powerful these young American women are and how well they represent the United States to the rest of the world. Tears swelled.
After Raisman's transcendent floor routine, NBC showed her parents in the stands. Despite being nervous wrecks in all the previous camera shots, they looked on expressionless, probably coming to an unknowable realization of their own. Raisman eventually walked over to her bag at the side of the arena and the Chinese team basically lined up to pay respect and show their admiration. The crowd started chanting Ali's name, which I've never heard at a gymnastics event.
I hope the critic wasn't consumed with the inane chatter of the internet during these moments. Then again, here I am engaging in the same. I just wish journalists would stop treating opinions from the internet as legitimate and representative, particularly from Twitter.
Additionally, I didn't get a single hint NBC was characterizing these gymnasts as 'teenage pixies,' or trying to deceive the viewer to ramp up the drama. NBC let the images do the talking, and the US team was a picture of control, power, and intensity.
Last night the US had essentially won the competition before the floor exercise, but still, as NBC showed the US gymnasts warm-up, I was overcome with a realization of just how powerful these young American women are and how well they represent the United States to the rest of the world. Tears swelled.
After Raisman's transcendent floor routine, NBC showed her parents in the stands. Despite being nervous wrecks in all the previous camera shots, they looked on expressionless, probably coming to an unknowable realization of their own. Raisman eventually walked over to her bag at the side of the arena and the Chinese team basically lined up to pay respect and show their admiration. The crowd started chanting Ali's name, which I've never heard at a gymnastics event.
I hope the critic wasn't consumed with the inane chatter of the internet during these moments. Then again, here I am engaging in the same. I just wish journalists would stop treating opinions from the internet as legitimate and representative, particularly from Twitter.
I was watching the Irish (rte sport) coverage of the Men's team, and it was amazing to see the pacing. I saw a bunch of routines, some warmups, some taping and untaping or wrists, Shots of the teams on the sidelines and processing to the next apparatus, occasional commercial breaks.
And the Irish weren't in the competition. So, no opportunity for extra rah rah nationalism.
And the Irish weren't in the competition. So, no opportunity for extra rah rah nationalism.
A lot of the problem is that it's programmed the same way that something like Strictly Come Dancing (Dancing With the Stars) is - the focus is on the "ooooooh" factor far more than it is on getting people to understand what they're watching.
With the best will in the world, most people seeing any sport in the olympics probably aren't actually following that sport. As a result, trying to get people up to speed so they can understand why the judging scores are what they are, at the same time as they're trying to watch the action, is never going to work. This is only further hampered in something like gymnastics, where the scoring is incredibly detailed and complex, and the time someone's doing something is so short.
Whilst I wish people were more informed about what they're looking at, I get the impression most people don't really care that much, and just want to look at what olympians do and be astounded at it.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
With the best will in the world, most people seeing any sport in the olympics probably aren't actually following that sport. As a result, trying to get people up to speed so they can understand why the judging scores are what they are, at the same time as they're trying to watch the action, is never going to work. This is only further hampered in something like gymnastics, where the scoring is incredibly detailed and complex, and the time someone's doing something is so short.
Whilst I wish people were more informed about what they're looking at, I get the impression most people don't really care that much, and just want to look at what olympians do and be astounded at it.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
My issue is with NBC's rights to the coverage. I've seen way too many articles now with entertaining headlines and info, but no video of the actual occurrence because NBC has the rights. If you're lucky you'll find a tweet of somebody filming their TV screen.
I have a theory on the popularity of certain sports, and I think it could come down to whether the sport is clear on how performances are ranked.
Basically if it requires judges it will be limited in its mass market appeal.
Sports that require judges:
- Aren't going to appeal as much to men as a whole. Men like clear rules and clear outcomes. Boxing is probably the only popular sport that's often not clear - but it has knockouts and TKOs which help clarify.
- Will have a lot of off-putting or repetitive banter because you have to explain how the judges rate things that aren't obvious and sometimes make no sense. The judges and commentators can come across as snooty & pretentious too.
- Often leave a bad taste in your mouth if your perception of the winner is different.
Basically if it requires judges it will be limited in its mass market appeal.
Sports that require judges:
- Aren't going to appeal as much to men as a whole. Men like clear rules and clear outcomes. Boxing is probably the only popular sport that's often not clear - but it has knockouts and TKOs which help clarify.
- Will have a lot of off-putting or repetitive banter because you have to explain how the judges rate things that aren't obvious and sometimes make no sense. The judges and commentators can come across as snooty & pretentious too.
- Often leave a bad taste in your mouth if your perception of the winner is different.
I'm sorry, but this critic is way off base about NBC's gymnastics coverage. NBC should be applauded for letting the performances speak for themselves and having the self-restraint to focus on what the gymnasts do well rather than poisoning the mood by expounding on minor imperfections.
Additionally, I didn't get a single hint NBC was characterizing these gymnasts as 'teenage pixies,' nor trying to deceive the viewer to ramp up the drama. NBC let the images do the talking, and the US team was a picture of control, power, and intensity.
Last night the US had essentially won the competition before the floor exercise, but still, as NBC showed the US gymnasts warm-up, I was overcome with a realization of just how powerful these young American women are and how well they represent the United States to the rest of the world. Tears swelled.
After a transcendent Raisman floor routine, NBC showed her parents in the stands. Despite being nervous wrecks in all the previous camera shots, they looked on expressionless, probably coming to an unknowable realization of their own. Raisman eventually walked over to her bag at the side of the arena and the Chinese team basically lined up to pay respect and show their admiration. The crowd started chanting Ali's name, which I've never heard at a gymnastics event. It was high Sport and great TV.
I hope the critic wasn't consumed with the inane chatter of the internet during these moments. Then again, here I am engaging in the same. I just wish journalists would stop treating opinions from the internet as representative and worth responding to, particularly those from Twitter.
Additionally, I didn't get a single hint NBC was characterizing these gymnasts as 'teenage pixies,' nor trying to deceive the viewer to ramp up the drama. NBC let the images do the talking, and the US team was a picture of control, power, and intensity.
Last night the US had essentially won the competition before the floor exercise, but still, as NBC showed the US gymnasts warm-up, I was overcome with a realization of just how powerful these young American women are and how well they represent the United States to the rest of the world. Tears swelled.
After a transcendent Raisman floor routine, NBC showed her parents in the stands. Despite being nervous wrecks in all the previous camera shots, they looked on expressionless, probably coming to an unknowable realization of their own. Raisman eventually walked over to her bag at the side of the arena and the Chinese team basically lined up to pay respect and show their admiration. The crowd started chanting Ali's name, which I've never heard at a gymnastics event. It was high Sport and great TV.
I hope the critic wasn't consumed with the inane chatter of the internet during these moments. Then again, here I am engaging in the same. I just wish journalists would stop treating opinions from the internet as representative and worth responding to, particularly those from Twitter.
"Why Americans are bad." written by some self-loathing Americans at the New Yorker Department of Puffington Host-Style Clickbait Generation.
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I agree to an extent. The gymnastics events should be live on one of NBC's various channels. However, the thing to remember is that the women won gold at ~5:30 EST. I would not be happy if they cut away from live swimming to show tape-delayed gymnastics. Gymnastics is getting the short end of the stick partially due to tbe schedules.
Nevermind all the sports that don't get any TV coverage I guess?
The annoyance may come from the fact that the various broadcasters pay an ungodly amount of money for the rights to show the Olympics, and then do a poor job of actually showing those sports (unless you're interested in sports where you're country is likely to win medals).
Also see : http://gymcastic.com/nbcimprovements/
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zakk(1)
>One of the factors preventing Americans from appreciating just how difficult it is to do what an Olympic gymnast does is the fact that competitors are expected to perform their routines without betraying any evidence of effort.
I've stopped reading twitter/news due to this constant moral chiding. I don't understand this (recent?) obsession with pointing out how Americans are stupid/ignorant/racists/misogynists/shallow. Wish we could keep this kind of stuff out of HN.
Only egomaniacs overestimate their own virtuousness and underestimate everyone else's.