The Penny Must Die(theecjournal.com)
theecjournal.com
The Penny Must Die
http://www.theecjournal.com/single-post/2016/02/14/Why-The-Penny-Must-Die
98 comments
I know voting turnout is sadly low, but that does not constitute people not participating in the process. Senators and representatives are elected. These representatives' failure to do their job does not constitute a failure on the part of the people to do their job (voting). Pretending like people could do more when the system simply does not allow it is disingenuous and takes the blame away from where it rests: the elected representatives who refuse to do their jobs. And let's not pretend that calling/emailing/mailing/tweeting/etc. representatives is something that should be required to get our representatives to do their job. What kind of responsible, decent person needs to be prodded tens of thousands of times before they do their job?
I know voting turnout is sadly low, but that does not constitute people not participating in the process.
...It's the most basic level of participation; if that's not failing to participate in the process, what is? You're welcome to rail against the entirety of the history of who politicians are and how they behave, but it's at your peril.
In the same way that you can't just turn a computer on and leave it alone forever, you can't do the same thing with government. Politicians have always been, and will probably always been unrelentingly worthless scumbags.
...It's the most basic level of participation; if that's not failing to participate in the process, what is? You're welcome to rail against the entirety of the history of who politicians are and how they behave, but it's at your peril.
In the same way that you can't just turn a computer on and leave it alone forever, you can't do the same thing with government. Politicians have always been, and will probably always been unrelentingly worthless scumbags.
At least as far back as the 1970's, every time our civil servants in the treasury ask congress to let them stop making pennies, the John Birch Society types raise such a stink about how this is a communist conspiracy to enable world government, that the politicians drop it as not being worth the fight. Source: Michael Blumenthal, Secretary of the Treasury 1977-79.
Your thinking on the subject is a symptom of something else.
The "question before the question" is-- why is the penny worthless? That's the uncomfortable situation.
The "question before the question" is-- why is the penny worthless? That's the uncomfortable situation.
Your thinking on the subject is a symptom of something else.
Sure, if you're very new to this planet and aren't aware that, "The penny must die" has been published in some form for longer than you've been alive. The actual question isn't engaging, isn't new, and doesn't represent a significant issue facing any of us. The issue behind why we keep regurgitating the same issues and pawing at them like blind fools however, is interesting.
Sure, if you're very new to this planet and aren't aware that, "The penny must die" has been published in some form for longer than you've been alive. The actual question isn't engaging, isn't new, and doesn't represent a significant issue facing any of us. The issue behind why we keep regurgitating the same issues and pawing at them like blind fools however, is interesting.
The EU still has 1/2cent coins (although I think Belgium no longer allows shops to give them as change).
Pennies are gone in AU/NZ and other south pacific countries.
Pennies are gone in AU/NZ and other south pacific countries.
Canada got rid of it a few years ago despite all the wild-eyed hysteria surrounding the phase-out. Senior citizens did not go bankrupt, stores selling inexpensive items did not go under, and a myriad of other nonsense proved to be utterly unfounded.
A penny is so worthless these days even homeless people throw them out.
Visiting the US is like visiting a time machine where pennies and dollar bills still exist, where chip and pin is only just coming into fashion, and where "checks" are still used for ordinary transactions like buying groceries.
A penny is so worthless these days even homeless people throw them out.
Visiting the US is like visiting a time machine where pennies and dollar bills still exist, where chip and pin is only just coming into fashion, and where "checks" are still used for ordinary transactions like buying groceries.
> where "checks" are still used for ordinary transactions like buying groceries.
I've been wondering if there are statistics regarding the usage of checks. When I was younger almost every week I'd get stuck in line by someone very, very slowly writing a check. But I haven't seen someone write one in...well it must be at least 3 or 4 years ago and that was at some tiny store that didn't accept credit cards.
Do people really still write checks in a number that's in any way significant?
I've been wondering if there are statistics regarding the usage of checks. When I was younger almost every week I'd get stuck in line by someone very, very slowly writing a check. But I haven't seen someone write one in...well it must be at least 3 or 4 years ago and that was at some tiny store that didn't accept credit cards.
Do people really still write checks in a number that's in any way significant?
I write 5 or 6 checks per month for various things like paying the vet (horses), paying the farrier (horses), paying an instructor of mine, paying board (horses again), etc. Also rent - my apartment complex supports ePay, but adds a surcharge. No surcharge with checks.
I don't in stores but it's still pretty much the standard way to pay a lot of service people. (Physical checks are also used in a number of payments I make through my online bank bill pay although I never see the actual check.)
> it's still pretty much the standard way to pay a lot of service people
Fair enough I was mostly referring to using them at retail locations like I thought parent was alluding to. I forgot I also pay more service folks with a check (though with things like stripe I see more and more service folks using those to prevent bounced checks).
Fair enough I was mostly referring to using them at retail locations like I thought parent was alluding to. I forgot I also pay more service folks with a check (though with things like stripe I see more and more service folks using those to prevent bounced checks).
My wife still prefers to use them for groceries - I'm not really sure why, but she does.
They aren't any slower than a card nowadays, with check printers. You don't even have to sign them.
They aren't any slower than a card nowadays, with check printers. You don't even have to sign them.
Card = tap and done here. For larger purchases chip and a 4-digit PIN. Never bounces. Never gets stolen and used to make fraudulent withdrawals, at least so long as skimmers are mostly mag-stripe readers.
> Card = tap and done here
Almost nowhere we shop has NFC readers yet. They're gaining adoption, but they're far from ubiquitous.
Those that do often require that you sign a receipt in addition to presenting your device or card. I've had one place go as far as to require a PIN and a signature... on a purchase where I had to unlock my phone with a fingerprint.
Compare that to "hand the clerk a paper check, clerk inserts it into the register, then hands it back to you".
> Never bounces
Sure they can. They can also be reversed, in some cases weeks after the purchase. Large retailers who print/scan checks (e.g., WalMart) present it to the bank electronically, instantly. There's actually a significantly stronger guarantee that the money is actually there in that case.
> Never gets stolen and used to make fraudulent withdrawals, at least so long as skimmers are mostly mag-stripe readers.
This is a risk, sure - but it's on the retailers, not the consumer. It's a hassle for a consumer but most banks will happily reverse the charges for you if you report a checkbook stolen.
Almost nowhere we shop has NFC readers yet. They're gaining adoption, but they're far from ubiquitous.
Those that do often require that you sign a receipt in addition to presenting your device or card. I've had one place go as far as to require a PIN and a signature... on a purchase where I had to unlock my phone with a fingerprint.
Compare that to "hand the clerk a paper check, clerk inserts it into the register, then hands it back to you".
> Never bounces
Sure they can. They can also be reversed, in some cases weeks after the purchase. Large retailers who print/scan checks (e.g., WalMart) present it to the bank electronically, instantly. There's actually a significantly stronger guarantee that the money is actually there in that case.
> Never gets stolen and used to make fraudulent withdrawals, at least so long as skimmers are mostly mag-stripe readers.
This is a risk, sure - but it's on the retailers, not the consumer. It's a hassle for a consumer but most banks will happily reverse the charges for you if you report a checkbook stolen.
I saw a middle aged person buy groceries with a check a week ago.
The canadian penny phase out went so smooth I didn't even notice it... Until I went to the U.S. and the cashier gave me pennies. I felt somewhere between being pissed off and amused.
Same. Whenever I go to the US and they give me pennies, I just give them right back. I have zero use for pennies. I also really wish they switched from dollar bills to coins.
Canada still has pricing to the penny, and if you pay with something electronic (like a card, or online transfer) you still pay the exact amount, to the penny.
It's just cash that gets rounded. This means there is no reason for shops to adjust their pricing for rounding (basically impossible anyway as GST/HST/PST tax is added later) since only a minority pay with cash. It's a good way to avoid any side effects of getting rid of the small coins.
It's just cash that gets rounded. This means there is no reason for shops to adjust their pricing for rounding (basically impossible anyway as GST/HST/PST tax is added later) since only a minority pay with cash. It's a good way to avoid any side effects of getting rid of the small coins.
And the Tories got a substantial boost in popularity at a time when they were mired in scandal. Cynics speculated that they saved the phase out to have an easy policy they could roll out when they needed it.
But I think it was the media's policy of always showing both sides of an issue that made it seem much more contentious than it really was.
But I think it was the media's policy of always showing both sides of an issue that made it seem much more contentious than it really was.
But many EU countries, including Belgium, Finland, Ireland and the Netherlands, do not. (Technically, they do exist for collectors, but all prices are rounded up/down to the nearest 5c and you never encounter them in daily life.)
> The EU still has 1/2cent coins
I was confused there for a second because "1/2cent coins" looks like "half-cent coins", where you actually mean "one-cent and two-cent coins".
And yeah, I would like to see these go. I refer to them simply as "Buntmetall" (a German word that translates literally as "colored metal"; appropriate since the small coins are brown-ish) and throw them away at any occasion.
I was confused there for a second because "1/2cent coins" looks like "half-cent coins", where you actually mean "one-cent and two-cent coins".
And yeah, I would like to see these go. I refer to them simply as "Buntmetall" (a German word that translates literally as "colored metal"; appropriate since the small coins are brown-ish) and throw them away at any occasion.
A huge feature of the AU detonation system is that we actually give the coins sensible names. Instead of making up confusing names like penny and nickel and what not (which I can never remember what they are, no matter how much time I spend in the US). Just call them by their face value and be done with it.
There's a particular coin in the US that doesn't actually say the value on it anywhere - it's particularly annoying.
There's a particular coin in the US that doesn't actually say the value on it anywhere - it's particularly annoying.
I suppose you are speaking of a dime, since all the other coins are clearly marked with their value. It is odd that the dime doesn't say it's 10 cents. I guess it's just one of those cultural things that we are supposed to just know.
For a moment I thought you were talking about half-cent coins.
The Netherlands no longer uses the 1 or 2 cent coins - they are not accepted for payment, even if you have enough to make a round 5 cent amount.
They should accept them, as per the Euro agreement.
Should they? If so, wouldn't not accepting cash be illegal, too? Quite a few shops and, I think, most company canteens only accept electronic payment.
IIRC (long time since I checked) that's illegal, too, a merchant should always accept cash up to the legal limits imposed on cash payments
Yes, several countries have done away with the smallest denomination. Nothing to miss about carrying less coins around
But the $1 bill really ought to be a coin instead
But the $1 bill really ought to be a coin instead
>But the $1 bill really ought to be a coin instead
There have been various efforts at dollar coins and they've never really taken off.
I would hate this. I don't use a lot of cash in general but I really like the fact that, when I do use cash, except for some quarters I save for parking meters, coins are basically in the dump in a jar when I get home value. I dislike when I travel to UK/EU that there's coinage of sufficient value that I can't just ignore my loose change.
If I have to use cash I'd much rather just use bills. Coins require some sort of different container to carry them.
There have been various efforts at dollar coins and they've never really taken off.
I would hate this. I don't use a lot of cash in general but I really like the fact that, when I do use cash, except for some quarters I save for parking meters, coins are basically in the dump in a jar when I get home value. I dislike when I travel to UK/EU that there's coinage of sufficient value that I can't just ignore my loose change.
If I have to use cash I'd much rather just use bills. Coins require some sort of different container to carry them.
The whole point of having a $1 coin is so buying something like a can of coke or paying for a parking spot doesn't involve stuffing ten or quarters into the machine. It's two or three coins if you're doing it right, max.
Parking meters. Laundry. Vending machines. Public transit. These are all things made immeasurably better by having coins that have value.
> I can't just ignore my loose change.
Sure you can. Back when I was still using cash I'd just dump it all in a jar and at the end of the year I'd have at least $800-1000 of savings.
It's also nice that with a single coin you can buy something. A bagel? A muffin? A coffee? If you shop at the right place you might even be able to swing a muffin and a coffee for a single coin.
You really can't get much for $0.25 these days. Even a pack of gum is vastly more than that.
Parking meters. Laundry. Vending machines. Public transit. These are all things made immeasurably better by having coins that have value.
> I can't just ignore my loose change.
Sure you can. Back when I was still using cash I'd just dump it all in a jar and at the end of the year I'd have at least $800-1000 of savings.
It's also nice that with a single coin you can buy something. A bagel? A muffin? A coffee? If you shop at the right place you might even be able to swing a muffin and a coffee for a single coin.
You really can't get much for $0.25 these days. Even a pack of gum is vastly more than that.
If you gave me this argument 10 years ago I'd be completely on board with you. Today? Not so much.
> Parking meters.
Lately I've been seeing updated parking meters that take credit cards. Not sure how common it is but depends on your area.
> Laundry.
Last time I did laundry at a laundromat they had credit card machines on each washer and dryer. I just kinda assumed this was becoming more and more common.
> Vending machines.
I've never seen a vending machine in my life that didn't accept bills. Even better, I haven't seen a vending machine in the past 2 years that didn't accept credit cards. Granted I know they still exist I just hadn't run into one in a couple of years.
> Public transit.
All the public transit I take (train, sometimes bus) accept either specialized cards that can be refilled via vending machines or online (with credit, debit or cash). Vending machines for tickets typically take credit, debit or cash, too.
I'm sure buses will allow coins but is its usage even common anymore?
> It's also nice that with a single coin you can buy something. A bagel? A muffin? A coffee? If you shop at the right place you might even be able to swing a muffin and a coffee for a single coin. You really can't get much for $0.25 these days. Even a pack of gum is vastly more than that.
It's "nice"? Personally I find it "nice" to be able to buy something with a single bill. Is your point necessarily better than my point?
> Parking meters.
Lately I've been seeing updated parking meters that take credit cards. Not sure how common it is but depends on your area.
> Laundry.
Last time I did laundry at a laundromat they had credit card machines on each washer and dryer. I just kinda assumed this was becoming more and more common.
> Vending machines.
I've never seen a vending machine in my life that didn't accept bills. Even better, I haven't seen a vending machine in the past 2 years that didn't accept credit cards. Granted I know they still exist I just hadn't run into one in a couple of years.
> Public transit.
All the public transit I take (train, sometimes bus) accept either specialized cards that can be refilled via vending machines or online (with credit, debit or cash). Vending machines for tickets typically take credit, debit or cash, too.
I'm sure buses will allow coins but is its usage even common anymore?
> It's also nice that with a single coin you can buy something. A bagel? A muffin? A coffee? If you shop at the right place you might even be able to swing a muffin and a coffee for a single coin. You really can't get much for $0.25 these days. Even a pack of gum is vastly more than that.
It's "nice"? Personally I find it "nice" to be able to buy something with a single bill. Is your point necessarily better than my point?
Maybe the US will never get it and will skip from $1 bills to online payment but with the way the roll-out of the chip/pin thing is going that'll be decades away.
Until then coins are the best way for people who don't have a credit card to pay for things like that. Services like Apple Pay are still in the early adoption phase and aren't as reliable.
All your arguments, and I mean literally all of them, were what people were harping about before the $1 coin showed up here over thirty years ago. Nobody misses $1 bills. Literally nobody.
Until then coins are the best way for people who don't have a credit card to pay for things like that. Services like Apple Pay are still in the early adoption phase and aren't as reliable.
All your arguments, and I mean literally all of them, were what people were harping about before the $1 coin showed up here over thirty years ago. Nobody misses $1 bills. Literally nobody.
Basically the only thing I use coins for is parking meters and having a bunch of quarters in my car isn't a big deal. I don't use laundry machines. I don't know the last time I used a vending machine. I have a stored value card for public transit.
I do need $1-ish value cash for tips etc. from time to time and I don't want to carry coinage for that purpose.
I do need $1-ish value cash for tips etc. from time to time and I don't want to carry coinage for that purpose.
Lets kill two birds with one stones and also abolish the horrific tipping culture the US has ;)
I'd be happy if prices were set such that tips weren't a necessary part of many workers' incomes, but annoyed if I had to carry around coins for the specific purpose of showing my especial appreciation of something.
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Most of the point-of-sale debit machines here have a configurable tip option, so you can punch in a fixed amount or a percentage if you're so inclined.
Cash tips usually come out of change. If they only give you $0.10 to work with, win some lose some.
Cash tips usually come out of change. If they only give you $0.10 to work with, win some lose some.
You can feed a dollar or three into a soda machine (or swipe your card) in the US
Yes it requires a different container. It's called a pocket. Or a coin purse, which can be easily found.
And it saves space, both in the wallet and in my pocket.
And it saves space, both in the wallet and in my pocket.
I've got no interest in carrying something extra. I'm well aware of how to carry coins, which I have little choice but to do in the UK/EU. I'm very happy in the US to basically never deal with coins.
I already carry a wallet, why would I want a coin purse as well? An empty purse would take up more space in my pocket than a dozen dollar bills in my wallet. I've occasionally got coins in my pocket because I receive them as change, but they go in my car's ashtray or a box of coins I've got at home, whichever I reach first.
Every couple of years, I take them to a coin machine and take a couple % hit for the machine's surcharge. More, higher-value coins = more waste, both of space, and in terms of returning them to a valuable form.
Every couple of years, I take them to a coin machine and take a couple % hit for the machine's surcharge. More, higher-value coins = more waste, both of space, and in terms of returning them to a valuable form.
They've never taken off because they get cancelled too soon. And now everyone knows a new dollar coin will get cancelled, so why bother doing anything to support them?
The US has dollar coins. They're not used much, despite decades of efforts from the US Mint to promote them. It's getting hard to get a roll of them from a bank. There are Susan B. Anthony dollars, Sacajawea dollars, and U.S. President dollars, all compatible.
If you want some, go to a US post office, put a $20 bill in the stamp vending machine, and press coin return. The older machines give change in dollar coins.
If you want some, go to a US post office, put a $20 bill in the stamp vending machine, and press coin return. The older machines give change in dollar coins.
Last time I was at a US Post Office I had to use a credit card to buy a stamp.
Guess those machines are being phased out
Guess those machines are being phased out
Metro ticket machines in Seattle also give them in change.
Well, I'm from Europe --- and I can't stand the dollar bill. It's just too niggling an amount of money to be worth getting my wallet out for. Whenever I visit the US I always ask for change in dollar coins instead of bills (which tends to get some rather odd looks), and once in Dallas I resorted to feeding banknotes into a DART ticket machine, because it would give change in dollar coins.
In the UK, where I grew up, the smallest (proper) banknote is five pounds (worth about seven dollars). (The (proper) is because there are still some Scottish one pound notes floating around. I believe they're still valid, but they're not printed any more and so are decades old and disgusting, and you need to be really unlucky to see one.) In Switzerland, where I live, it's ten francs (worth about ten dollars). Switzerland actually has five franc coins, which are amazingly chunky things.
...the smallest coin in Switzerland, BTW, is five rappen (one rappen is a hundredth of a franc). The two rappen coin was deprecated in 1978, and the one rappen coin in 2007.
In the UK, where I grew up, the smallest (proper) banknote is five pounds (worth about seven dollars). (The (proper) is because there are still some Scottish one pound notes floating around. I believe they're still valid, but they're not printed any more and so are decades old and disgusting, and you need to be really unlucky to see one.) In Switzerland, where I live, it's ten francs (worth about ten dollars). Switzerland actually has five franc coins, which are amazingly chunky things.
...the smallest coin in Switzerland, BTW, is five rappen (one rappen is a hundredth of a franc). The two rappen coin was deprecated in 1978, and the one rappen coin in 2007.
As a European, I feel the exact opposite about the 1€ coin. I would much rather have a paper bill. The coins make my wallet heavy and tend to fall out far easier than bills.
What are you doing putting coins in your wallet? That's your mistake.
You're also highly unlikely to have more than 3 or 4 of those. If you have 5 just trade up for a bill. Most stores will be very grateful to get some change back.
You're also highly unlikely to have more than 3 or 4 of those. If you have 5 just trade up for a bill. Most stores will be very grateful to get some change back.
Serious question: Where else am I supposed to put my change?
Also, four 1€ coins are already heavy and clunky enough, and I don't want to keep track of how many of them I have so I can awkwardly exchange them for a 5€ bill when the time is ripe. I'd much rather have bills to start with.
Pockets were invented centuries ago for precisely this reason. I can't believe you're struggling with something so simple as coins.
Nobody here is clamouring for the $1 bill to come back. The only thing more annoying than a pocket full of $1 coins is a bunch of absolutely disgustingly filthy $1 bills.
Nobody here is clamouring for the $1 bill to come back. The only thing more annoying than a pocket full of $1 coins is a bunch of absolutely disgustingly filthy $1 bills.
Chaos aside, I wonder what the impact would be of simply declaring that all pennies are now worth $1. Based on circulation ca. 2009 it would imply a $1.65 trillion "conversion"; ~10% of GDP.
They've tried multiple times now. The public loves their greenbacks.
At what point is the nickel not worth the effort to keep around as well? It might be easier to sell everyone on the idea of rounding to the nearest 10 cents to keep prices nice and even.
Yes, the nickel is just as bad. New Zealand got rid of their 5¢ coin about 10 years ago, but they had (and have) a 20¢ coin instead of 25¢, so they could easily drop the decimal. My proposal would be to drop the penny and nickel, keep the dime, and replace the quarter with a 50¢ coin.
New Zealand phased out their 5cent coins a decade ago.
Context: NZD0.05 is worth about the same as 0.05USD ‡†
‡ Purchasing power to a citizen of the corresponding country, rather than exchange rate (exchange rate only makes ~30% difference).
† probably quite a good approximation given years difference.
‡ Purchasing power to a citizen of the corresponding country, rather than exchange rate (exchange rate only makes ~30% difference).
† probably quite a good approximation given years difference.
The problem with phasing out nickels is you have to phase out quarters first and replace them with 20c.
Or drop the dime too and round to the quarter like Denmark did.
The problem with that rounding is that I suspect I know which direction the rounding will always go... and for things like gasoline or water (or even pork chops, which differ in size) there's no way to prevent a price that would require rounding.
Many other countries solve this by just rounding the final price up or down regardless. So if your fuel comes to $100.02, all you pay is $100. If it comes to $100.04, you pay $100.05.
It works fine, no one dies.
It works fine, no one dies.
I believe other countries solve this by legally mandating fair rounding.
...so what?
well I suspect they would just push us to a digital currency and be done with it. slowly take away the small currencies and try to convince people that if they want to save money long term (as in get the penny values back) they need to convert
Places like Australia got rid of 1c and 2c coins (with the 5c being the smallest denomination) long before 'digital currency' was on the minds of anyone.
The penny lobby [1] is a front for the zinc industry. Mostly Jarden Zinc Products.
[1] http://www.pennies.org
[1] http://www.pennies.org
> The reason why we have money is so that they can facilitate trade of goods and services so that we don’t have to barter like savages.
This is entirely wrong. In high school you're taught that we went from barter to money to credit, but in reality, the earliest human economies were credit based.
People sometimes say, "x society collapsed and reverted to barter," but in every case, they "revert" to the currency of trade from the previous state .. or they use something generic like "Oxen" but they never actually trade in real Oxen; they just use it as a unit of measure.
I do agree the penny should be deprecated, and I know it sounds nit-picky, but myths like this prop up a narrative that doesn't match with history, and it distorts our perception of what money and markets truly are.
I highly recommend the book Debt the First 5,000 Years, as it goes into great detail about the history of debt, money and slavery.
This is entirely wrong. In high school you're taught that we went from barter to money to credit, but in reality, the earliest human economies were credit based.
People sometimes say, "x society collapsed and reverted to barter," but in every case, they "revert" to the currency of trade from the previous state .. or they use something generic like "Oxen" but they never actually trade in real Oxen; they just use it as a unit of measure.
I do agree the penny should be deprecated, and I know it sounds nit-picky, but myths like this prop up a narrative that doesn't match with history, and it distorts our perception of what money and markets truly are.
I highly recommend the book Debt the First 5,000 Years, as it goes into great detail about the history of debt, money and slavery.
Not a fan of the "they cost more to make than they're worth" argument. How much does it cost to make a $100 bill?
Nevertheless, we Canadians have been without pennies for a few years now. I have no complaints, just less change, which is nice.
Nevertheless, we Canadians have been without pennies for a few years now. I have no complaints, just less change, which is nice.
Wouldn't the next logical conclusion be to get rid of cash altogether?
Did I fall for a slippery slope fallacy?
Did I fall for a slippery slope fallacy?
That 15 cents helps facilitate commerce, and the lifetime of a bill is usually more than a single transaction. It's not a huge cost unless people are destroying a lot of bills.
> Wouldn't the next logical conclusion be to get rid of cash altogether?
I like this solution. Get rid of the need for money, too.
I like this solution. Get rid of the need for money, too.
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The flip side of US denominational conservativism that appeared starting in, oh, the 1950s or so is that $20 bills are effectively the maximum value you can depend on being routinely accepted.
I get $100 bills to travel overseas (and they're routinely accepted if I'm using US currency for something). But I'd in no way depend on getting a $50 or $100 accepted in a US store. I admit that I see fewer signs to that effect these days than I maybe did in the past but I do have to go int to a bank teller if I want to get $100 bills for travelling.
I get $100 bills to travel overseas (and they're routinely accepted if I'm using US currency for something). But I'd in no way depend on getting a $50 or $100 accepted in a US store. I admit that I see fewer signs to that effect these days than I maybe did in the past but I do have to go int to a bank teller if I want to get $100 bills for travelling.
Americans are too sentimental, its why we could never switch to the metric system. And congress voting to get rid of the penny is so low on priority I wouldn't count on it happening soon.
Pennies are made because there is demand. If businesses stop requesting rolls of pennies, the mint would make less of them. If you want to get rid of pennies lobby businesses to round their after tax prices to the nearest nickel. Just McDonalds and Walmart dropping the penny might cut the amount in circulation by a significant amount.
Pennies are made because there is demand. If businesses stop requesting rolls of pennies, the mint would make less of them. If you want to get rid of pennies lobby businesses to round their after tax prices to the nearest nickel. Just McDonalds and Walmart dropping the penny might cut the amount in circulation by a significant amount.
When I visited India I found that one rupee is the smallest increment offered. It's very roughly equivalent to the American nickel. Even though cost of living there is much cheaper, the coarser grain of currency does not cause trouble.
When available currency has limited resolution merchants simply adjust their quantities to match.
Wouldn't it be nice to just pay 3.50 and get a tad more product than 3.37 and futz with the change?
When available currency has limited resolution merchants simply adjust their quantities to match.
Wouldn't it be nice to just pay 3.50 and get a tad more product than 3.37 and futz with the change?
The problem in the US with getting rid of pennies is that the US does not quote prices with sales tax included (unlike every other country on the planet). If you do that then you can quote prices at appropriate price points (4.25, 5.95 etc)
Of course if you get rid of the penny then rounding only occurs when you pay with cash - when you pay with a card you still get to pay to the penny
Of course if you get rid of the penny then rounding only occurs when you pay with cash - when you pay with a card you still get to pay to the penny
>unlike every other country on the planet
That's not true at all. Many prices (in restaurants but also elsewhere) in both Canada and Europe don't include sales tax/VAT.
That's not true at all. Many prices (in restaurants but also elsewhere) in both Canada and Europe don't include sales tax/VAT.
Some restaurants and coffee shops already display prices with tax, and round everything to the nearest nickel.
What's wrong with rounding?
Nothing, but you don't need to round when you use a card
There is a basic problem with this argument.
There are lots of places in the world that accept and use the dollar as a means of trade, where the penny is still of value.
https://qz.com/260980/meet-the-countries-that-dont-use-their...
What amounts to a rounding error for most Americans would quickly add up in places that depend on the dollar for currency (official or un officially) as they typically have larger marginal populations.
There are lots of places in the world that accept and use the dollar as a means of trade, where the penny is still of value.
https://qz.com/260980/meet-the-countries-that-dont-use-their...
What amounts to a rounding error for most Americans would quickly add up in places that depend on the dollar for currency (official or un officially) as they typically have larger marginal populations.
Huh? Ecuador uses the US dollar and issues their own coins.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian_centavo_coins
Americans were able to trade fine in the past when a penny had far more purchasing power. Other counties will manage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian_centavo_coins
Americans were able to trade fine in the past when a penny had far more purchasing power. Other counties will manage.
This is not the problem of the USA.
If somewhere the economy of a country is built on melting down pennies and making brass statues that's also not the problem of the US Mint.
Afaik most of them use their own currency instead of american coins. Like in cambodia everything below 1$ is handled in their own currency
And they should keep using pennies but valuing them at the base metal value ...
Obligatory link to John Oliver discussing the same topic in his usual manner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tyszHg96KI
Archived copy that can be read without JS enabled:
https://archive.fo/wM6HU
https://archive.fo/wM6HU
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It's a small thing, but then, so is a canary in a coal mine. This penny thing has been an irritant for years, and the things presaged by accepting that are starting to emerge... like failing infrastructure.