How Not to Die of Botulism (2013)(theatlantic.com)
theatlantic.com
How Not to Die of Botulism (2013)
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/12/how-not-to-die-of-botulism/281649/?single_page=true
103 comments
Boiling for ten minutes will not kill spores, but will inactivate the toxin.
Is this true? So if the toxin is already there, and you boil it, you'd be fine? I feel like that's not true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botulism#Prevention
> the botulinum toxin is destroyed by thorough cooking over the course of a few minutes
> the botulinum toxin is destroyed by thorough cooking over the course of a few minutes
> bad bacteria proliferates without oxygen, without salt and without acid
Why is that so? Why can't some of the bad types of bacteria proliferate in other environments?
Why is that so? Why can't some of the bad types of bacteria proliferate in other environments?
They can, however they are much more likely to be crowded out. The botulism spores are also more heat resistant than pretty much anything else. So the fastest way to die of botulism is canning food wrong.You kill all the bacteria. The botulism spores survive and prosper without any competition. Compare that to failed fermentation for example where you will have a large quantity of a mix of bacteria that is likely to look and smell and taste obviously wrong while not being packed with neuro toxins.
How not to die of botulism: Understand home food preservation and follow the recipe.
The rules are simple: 1. C. Botulinin is everywhere. It is in the food you are preserving. Deal with it. 2. Heat kills C. Botulinin. Propper pressure canning times and temperatures of properly diced foods will kill it. 3. Acidity inhibits C. Botulinun metabolism. Boiling water bath canning of high acid foods like dill pickles is sufficient to keep any remaining microbes from producing toxins. (Botulism toxin is a metabolism byproduct. ) 4. 10 minutes at boiling temperatures before serving will break down botulism toxin. 5. When in doubt, throw it out.
Was that hard?
The most subtle mistake to make is if the canning recipe says dice into 1/4 inch cubes, don't use a different size. It changes the convection currents in the jar and it may not reach required temperature/times in the core. Also be careful with home made salsa as the acidity can vary wildly depending on numerous factors.
The rules are simple: 1. C. Botulinin is everywhere. It is in the food you are preserving. Deal with it. 2. Heat kills C. Botulinin. Propper pressure canning times and temperatures of properly diced foods will kill it. 3. Acidity inhibits C. Botulinun metabolism. Boiling water bath canning of high acid foods like dill pickles is sufficient to keep any remaining microbes from producing toxins. (Botulism toxin is a metabolism byproduct. ) 4. 10 minutes at boiling temperatures before serving will break down botulism toxin. 5. When in doubt, throw it out.
Was that hard?
The most subtle mistake to make is if the canning recipe says dice into 1/4 inch cubes, don't use a different size. It changes the convection currents in the jar and it may not reach required temperature/times in the core. Also be careful with home made salsa as the acidity can vary wildly depending on numerous factors.
Based on the (2013) article, Heat kills it, but not just boiling water heat - you need the 250 degree pressure cooking heat.
Not really mentioned is that it's lack of oxygen that really enables things to go downhill, which is why you should never make your own infused oils - "homemade garlic infused olive oil, what could go wrong?" DEATH
Also, I can't think of the last thing I ate that was kept at a rolling boil for 10 minutes, and I probably don't want to. Botox is not the only thing that would eliminate.
Not really mentioned is that it's lack of oxygen that really enables things to go downhill, which is why you should never make your own infused oils - "homemade garlic infused olive oil, what could go wrong?" DEATH
Also, I can't think of the last thing I ate that was kept at a rolling boil for 10 minutes, and I probably don't want to. Botox is not the only thing that would eliminate.
Another reason that contributes to garlic-infused olive oil's danger is that the garlic tends to kill off other microorganisms that could compete with botulism, but it doesn't kill botulism itself.
See this is why people die. I had no idea of this danger and was just thinking the other day of making a garlic-infuses oil.
You absolutely can make garlic oil; you just shouldn't hold it for very long.
There are techniques you can use to make long-holding garlic oil, too. The simplest is to make mojo, which is garlic oil acidified with lime juice. But there are also techniques to directly acidify the garlic without drastically modifying the flavor.
Garlic infuses fast, so an even simpler strategy is just to make it the day you're planning to use it.
There are techniques you can use to make long-holding garlic oil, too. The simplest is to make mojo, which is garlic oil acidified with lime juice. But there are also techniques to directly acidify the garlic without drastically modifying the flavor.
Garlic infuses fast, so an even simpler strategy is just to make it the day you're planning to use it.
I often made garlic/oil/chili pepper spaghetti in the past. IMO doing anything fancy with the oil is completely unnecessary as you can infuse tons of flavour right at the cooking stage that happens 10min before eating: Use four garlic cloves per person, slice as thinly as you can (think Good Fellas), boil together with chili at the lowest heat in a high quality olive oil just until soft, take off the heat. Add pasta water,
salt, fresh italian flat parsley, almost cooked spaghetti and heat/soak for another minute, serve with parmesan. I also like to add sun dried oil tomatoes (commercial of course) together with the parsley. There, I don't understand how you need more
garlic flavour.
I do sort of the opposite thing: I dump a whole mess of whole cloves --- sometimes even the supermarket jugs of peeled garlic (which are for any other application pretty gross) --- into a saucier, cover with oil (cheap oil is fine, I think, because cooking is going to destroy the subtle flavors), and cook in a very slow oven until the garlic is soft.
Slightly off topic:
I want to take a moment to point out something else that is completely unnecessary: Flambé. If anything I think that adding alcohol and immediately burning it off will only remove the subtle flavors the food already has.
Sorry, I can't agree. "Crêpes Suzette" are delicious...
I agree that Crepes are amazing - I make them often (Nutella and banana mostly, sometimes just sugar), but I disagree that Flambe improves the flavor at all.. There is no need to Flambe the dish prior to serving it.
Almost all flavor is in the aroma. Flambe does nothing to add flavor - at best it is removing those precious aromatic compounds and at worst an inexperienced cook is going to burn down their kitchen. Flambe is all for show.
If you want to add flavor from alcohol (like Grand Marnier), you should just render it down into a syrup. Anyway, that's the advice I got from a better chef than myself, just passing along the knowledge.
Almost all flavor is in the aroma. Flambe does nothing to add flavor - at best it is removing those precious aromatic compounds and at worst an inexperienced cook is going to burn down their kitchen. Flambe is all for show.
If you want to add flavor from alcohol (like Grand Marnier), you should just render it down into a syrup. Anyway, that's the advice I got from a better chef than myself, just passing along the knowledge.
Yeah, food safety is a bit of a mine field. Other common foods to watch out for are improperly cooked beans and green potatoes.
It is indeed. I often wonder whether there is a website out there that lists every single risky food out there and gives you tips on how to prepare it without dying. As an example, I often wash my hands incredibly frequently when cooking food, but I see professional chefs who just wipe their hands on their apron. Where is the balance?
https://www.foodsafety.gov
As far as hand washing goes. Wash your hands at the start. Avoid cross contamination by washing your hands immediately after handling raw meat. You can wipe your hands on a (clean) apron or towel if you want to go from chopping veggies to handling raw chicken but not the other way around.
Always wash all fresh fruits and vegetables even ones you don't eat the outside of (oranges, grapefruits)
When I handle raw meat I always wear gloves and wash my hands after j take the gloves off. The gloves remind me that I'm "unsafe" when I am wearing them.
The health department required us to have separate cutting boards for meat and veggies when I worked in a kitchen. I think that's a good idea for home as well.
As far as hand washing goes. Wash your hands at the start. Avoid cross contamination by washing your hands immediately after handling raw meat. You can wipe your hands on a (clean) apron or towel if you want to go from chopping veggies to handling raw chicken but not the other way around.
Always wash all fresh fruits and vegetables even ones you don't eat the outside of (oranges, grapefruits)
When I handle raw meat I always wear gloves and wash my hands after j take the gloves off. The gloves remind me that I'm "unsafe" when I am wearing them.
The health department required us to have separate cutting boards for meat and veggies when I worked in a kitchen. I think that's a good idea for home as well.
It's not a website, but there's a great book about cooking called Keys to Good Cooking by Harold McGee. (It's not really a cookbook because there aren't any recipes in it.) Each chapter begins with a section on food safety for that particular category.
Things that are ready to eat, won't get anyone sick. With raw meat, you have to wash your hands. If you touch cooked meat it's fine to wipe off your hands and handle bread. Because the cooked meat is safe to eat, it can't contaminate anything in such a way to make it dangerous.
Just be cautions of the unsafe side. You can never wipe your hands when they're unsafe (raw meat juice). Because the next time you wipe your hands, you're bringing the contamination back. I wash spatulas and forks that handle unsafe stuff like meat and eggs while they're cooking to help contain that danger.
Just be cautions of the unsafe side. You can never wipe your hands when they're unsafe (raw meat juice). Because the next time you wipe your hands, you're bringing the contamination back. I wash spatulas and forks that handle unsafe stuff like meat and eggs while they're cooking to help contain that danger.
Cooked and chilled rice used to be the leading cause of food poisoning in the UK, which is saying something when you consider how many chickens are infected with salmonella and campylobacter. (campylobacter has recently taken the lead in number of food poisoning cases).
I've been sickened by this before eating leftover fried rice from a Chinese restaurant. It was the first time I went there and I really liked the food, but I can't stomach going back. It's also known as "Fried Rice Syndrome".
Chickens have been vaccinated against Salmonella in the UK since the '90s. (Vaguely remember the Salmonella scandal in the '80s as a kid.)
What is it about cooked and chilled rice that makes it a leading source of food poisoning?
Didn't know either, found this[1]: "Uncooked rice frequently contains bacteria called Bacillus cereus. These bacteria can form protective spores that survive the cooking process. If cooled slowly, these spores can germinate, grow and produce an emetic (vomit inducing) toxin. Reheating rice before serving will not inactivate the emetic toxin or kill all the bacterial cells, so the rice may not be safe."
The more you know. The suggestion is to cool it down as fast as possible and put it in the fridge. NHS says the "symptoms are relatively mild and usually last about 24 hours", so it seems unlikely that it's gonna kill you (IANA doctor).
[1] http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/safe_cooling...
[2] http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/can-reheating-rice-cause-food-po...
The more you know. The suggestion is to cool it down as fast as possible and put it in the fridge. NHS says the "symptoms are relatively mild and usually last about 24 hours", so it seems unlikely that it's gonna kill you (IANA doctor).
[1] http://www.foodsafety.govt.nz/elibrary/industry/safe_cooling...
[2] http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/can-reheating-rice-cause-food-po...
This always struck me as weird because of how many people I know who cook a giant pot of rice in a rice cooker and just leave it on the counter as they eat the rice over a couple days. Never knew it to cause vomiting.
That's a good point and made me do some more research. The range at which B. cereus grows ends at around 50C -- the exact figure varies depending on the source. Generally, 65C seems to be considered safe. The "warm" mode of (some? check your manual) rice cookers is designed specifically to target that temperature range to avoid contamination[2][3].
[1] Gilbert RJ, Stringer MF, Peace TC. The survival and growth of Bacillus cereus in boiled and fried rice in relation to outbreaks of food poisoning. The Journal of Hygiene. 1974;73(3):433-444. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2130471/ Possibly the "seminal paper" when it comes to rice and B. cereus?
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_cooker#History
[3] Manual for some random rice cooker on Amazon: "In Keep warm status, it will reheat to maintain the temperature at 73C" http://img1.midea.com/my/Local_Library/info_instructions/ins...
[1] Gilbert RJ, Stringer MF, Peace TC. The survival and growth of Bacillus cereus in boiled and fried rice in relation to outbreaks of food poisoning. The Journal of Hygiene. 1974;73(3):433-444. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2130471/ Possibly the "seminal paper" when it comes to rice and B. cereus?
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_cooker#History
[3] Manual for some random rice cooker on Amazon: "In Keep warm status, it will reheat to maintain the temperature at 73C" http://img1.midea.com/my/Local_Library/info_instructions/ins...
I can't find it now, but I remember reading a stat about far more sushi restaurants in the US getting fined by health inspectors due to improper rice temperature handling rather than fish handling as I had intuitively expected.
The fish is easy, just keep it cold. The rice, not so simple. :)
The fish is easy, just keep it cold. The rice, not so simple. :)
Wow crazy.
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/can-reheating-rice-cause-food-po...
> Yes, you can get food poisoning from eating reheated rice. However, it's not the reheating that causes the problem, but the way the rice has been stored before it is reheated.
> How does reheated rice cause food poisoning?
> Uncooked rice can contain spores of Bacillus cereus, a bacterium that can cause food poisoning. The spores can survive when rice is cooked.
> If rice is left standing at room temperature, the spores can grow into bacteria. These bacteria will multiply and may produce toxins (poisons) that cause vomiting or diarrhoea.
> The longer cooked rice is left at room temperature, the more likely it is that the bacteria or toxins could make the rice unsafe to eat.
Reheating the rice will kill the bacteria, but will not remove the toxin. It also puts the rice at bacteria breeding temperature again.
> Yes, you can get food poisoning from eating reheated rice. However, it's not the reheating that causes the problem, but the way the rice has been stored before it is reheated.
> How does reheated rice cause food poisoning?
> Uncooked rice can contain spores of Bacillus cereus, a bacterium that can cause food poisoning. The spores can survive when rice is cooked.
> If rice is left standing at room temperature, the spores can grow into bacteria. These bacteria will multiply and may produce toxins (poisons) that cause vomiting or diarrhoea.
> The longer cooked rice is left at room temperature, the more likely it is that the bacteria or toxins could make the rice unsafe to eat.
Reheating the rice will kill the bacteria, but will not remove the toxin. It also puts the rice at bacteria breeding temperature again.
According to this Lifehacker article (http://skillet.lifehacker.com/leftover-rice-could-make-you-v...)
> According to food scientist Donald Schaffner of Rutgers University, some restaurants “cook up a large batch of rice, hold it at room temperature all day,” and then take portions from the batch as needed. “Because Bacillus makes a heat stable toxin,” he explained “this is not a best practice, and has led to outbreaks in the past.”
That doesn't sound like something you would do in home cooking, so if the large number of food poisoning cases come from restaurants doing that, they may not be a good guide to the "absolute" danger from rice.
> According to food scientist Donald Schaffner of Rutgers University, some restaurants “cook up a large batch of rice, hold it at room temperature all day,” and then take portions from the batch as needed. “Because Bacillus makes a heat stable toxin,” he explained “this is not a best practice, and has led to outbreaks in the past.”
That doesn't sound like something you would do in home cooking, so if the large number of food poisoning cases come from restaurants doing that, they may not be a good guide to the "absolute" danger from rice.
Lots of outbreaks come from home cooks making a big batch of rice and then saving a portion to make fried rice the next day.
If it's a large portion of rice, and you don't spread it out to allow it to cool, the temperature of the rice will stay in the danger zone for hours--even in a refrigerator.
If it's a large portion of rice, and you don't spread it out to allow it to cool, the temperature of the rice will stay in the danger zone for hours--even in a refrigerator.
It's also related the surface area of grains of cooked rice.
http://www.bbc.com/food/rice
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Undercooked shitake mushrooms are also sometimes poisonous.
> improperly cooked beans
Can you expand on this one? A quick google search and I'm not finding anything. Do you mean bean sprouts?
Can you expand on this one? A quick google search and I'm not finding anything. Do you mean bean sprouts?
So dont use the fancy decanters you find at Goodwill.
Yes, it is pretty hard. The article is largely about foods that are not made in boiling water or pressure canners. The Underground Meats HACCP plan is not simply "10 minutes at boiling temperatures".
What got me was learning more about dishonest labeling:
> "... “Nitrate-free” and “no nitrite added” meats, Hunter adds, are a “huge hoax,” as they are made with celery powder—an alternative source of nitrates, albeit not labeled as such."
And not only that but despite claims, nitrates seem to not have negative health effects at the levels used in cured meats.
> "... “Nitrate-free” and “no nitrite added” meats, Hunter adds, are a “huge hoax,” as they are made with celery powder—an alternative source of nitrates, albeit not labeled as such."
And not only that but despite claims, nitrates seem to not have negative health effects at the levels used in cured meats.
Nitrites
Which puts me in mind of the "the sandwich" scene from The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson
"If the manifest of ingredients on the bottle had been legible, it would have read something like this:
"Water, blackstrap molasses, imported habanero peppers, salt, garlic, ginger, tomato puree, axle grease, real hickory smoke, snuff, butts of clove cigarettes, Guiness Stout fermentation dregs, uranium mill tailings, muffler cores, monosodium glutamate, nitrates, nitrites, nitrotes and nitrutes, nutrites, natrotes, powdered pork nose hairs, dynamite, activated charcoal, match-heads, used pipe cleaners, tar, nicotine, single-malt whiskey, smoked beef lymph nodes, autumn leaves, red fuming nitric acid, bituminous coal, fallout, printer's ink, laundry starch, drain cleaner, blue chrysotile asbestos, carrageenan, BHA, BHT, and natural flavorings."
"If the manifest of ingredients on the bottle had been legible, it would have read something like this:
"Water, blackstrap molasses, imported habanero peppers, salt, garlic, ginger, tomato puree, axle grease, real hickory smoke, snuff, butts of clove cigarettes, Guiness Stout fermentation dregs, uranium mill tailings, muffler cores, monosodium glutamate, nitrates, nitrites, nitrotes and nitrutes, nutrites, natrotes, powdered pork nose hairs, dynamite, activated charcoal, match-heads, used pipe cleaners, tar, nicotine, single-malt whiskey, smoked beef lymph nodes, autumn leaves, red fuming nitric acid, bituminous coal, fallout, printer's ink, laundry starch, drain cleaner, blue chrysotile asbestos, carrageenan, BHA, BHT, and natural flavorings."
> The most subtle mistake to make is if the canning recipe says dice into 1/4 inch cubes
How do pickles work then? They're never diced.
How do pickles work then? They're never diced.
The salt and acidity kill botulism.
Here is a small summary of the different kind of fermentation to better understand the article.
The three main type of fermentation are:
- Alcoholic fermentation (beer, wine,etc.): without oxygen, yeast produce ethanol from sugar, like when you leave some fruits rotten without too much oxygens...but fruits rotten because fungi proliferates quicker due to the presence of oxygen
- lacto-fermentation (cheese, yoghurt, etc.): without oxygen and in a warm environment, lacto-bacillus produce lactic acid from sugar
- acetic fermentation (vinegar) : WITH oxygen (seldom one), acetobacter bacterias produce acetic acid from ethanol
Louis Pasteur said "Fermentation is Life without oxygen", so whenever there is oxygen, you'll see the usual rot produced by fungi (yes, very crude simplification). So the main aspect of fermentation is to ensure an anaerobic environment, often with water or when you remove oxygen from a recipient by aspiring it.
The other types of fermentation are more seldom: propionic fermentation (from lactic acid to propionic acid like in the gruyere cheese), butyric fermentation (like in rancid butter), malolactic fermentation (from malic acid to lactic acid, because the malic acid, found in grappes and apples gives a very acidic taste and is used to lower that acidic taste in some wines).
- Alcoholic fermentation (beer, wine,etc.): without oxygen, yeast produce ethanol from sugar, like when you leave some fruits rotten without too much oxygens...but fruits rotten because fungi proliferates quicker due to the presence of oxygen
- lacto-fermentation (cheese, yoghurt, etc.): without oxygen and in a warm environment, lacto-bacillus produce lactic acid from sugar
- acetic fermentation (vinegar) : WITH oxygen (seldom one), acetobacter bacterias produce acetic acid from ethanol
Louis Pasteur said "Fermentation is Life without oxygen", so whenever there is oxygen, you'll see the usual rot produced by fungi (yes, very crude simplification). So the main aspect of fermentation is to ensure an anaerobic environment, often with water or when you remove oxygen from a recipient by aspiring it.
The other types of fermentation are more seldom: propionic fermentation (from lactic acid to propionic acid like in the gruyere cheese), butyric fermentation (like in rancid butter), malolactic fermentation (from malic acid to lactic acid, because the malic acid, found in grappes and apples gives a very acidic taste and is used to lower that acidic taste in some wines).
I'm surprised the article didn't explain outright that the botulinum toxin is the most toxic substance on earth. More than cyanide, sarin, VX, plutonium or anything else man made or natural.
Another interesting side note is Napoleon Bonaparte offered a prize to anyone who could preserve food. Armies used to have to eat what they found locally since carrying large amount of food was too tedious. In the late 1700s Nicolas Appert managed to discover heat "pasteurization" (well before Louis Pasteur method in the 1860s). The only problem was Appert used heat that was too high and for too long resulting in mushy food Pasteur's method had better results.
Interestingly Pasteur was inspired by a relative of Napoleon 1st only this time it was a nephew Napoleon III.
Another interesting side note is Napoleon Bonaparte offered a prize to anyone who could preserve food. Armies used to have to eat what they found locally since carrying large amount of food was too tedious. In the late 1700s Nicolas Appert managed to discover heat "pasteurization" (well before Louis Pasteur method in the 1860s). The only problem was Appert used heat that was too high and for too long resulting in mushy food Pasteur's method had better results.
Interestingly Pasteur was inspired by a relative of Napoleon 1st only this time it was a nephew Napoleon III.
It touched on it:
Botulinum toxin, a protein produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum, could be “the most poisonous poison” there is, as writer Carl Lamanna called it in an article for Science, in 1959. First weaponized by Imperial Japan in the 1930s, and later, Nazi Germany, the United States, the Soviet Union, Syria, Iran, Iraq, and North Korea, a single gram of toxin could theoretically kill more than a million people if dispersed into the air and inhaled.
Botulinum toxin, a protein produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum, could be “the most poisonous poison” there is, as writer Carl Lamanna called it in an article for Science, in 1959. First weaponized by Imperial Japan in the 1930s, and later, Nazi Germany, the United States, the Soviet Union, Syria, Iran, Iraq, and North Korea, a single gram of toxin could theoretically kill more than a million people if dispersed into the air and inhaled.
Ah, I missed that. I recall reading that part but missed the parts in quotes.
What I wonder is why the bacterium produces such a strong toxin in the first place. Is there any evolutionary advantage to making animals sick, or is just a coincidence?
"the gene that encodes for the toxin protein is
actually carried by a virus or phage that infects the bacteria" [0]
It seems the advantage for the virus in making the bacteria produce enough toxin to kill a duck fifty times over is that the maggots which eat the dead duck (and carry the bacteria and virus) each pick up enough toxin to kill another duck.
See diagram on carcass-maggot botulism in the reference. (Or not if you haven't eaten breakfast yet).
[0] https://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/field_manual/chapter_...
It seems the advantage for the virus in making the bacteria produce enough toxin to kill a duck fifty times over is that the maggots which eat the dead duck (and carry the bacteria and virus) each pick up enough toxin to kill another duck.
See diagram on carcass-maggot botulism in the reference. (Or not if you haven't eaten breakfast yet).
[0] https://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/field_manual/chapter_...
Not sure how good this is, but: https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Clostridium_botulin...
> but when they are activated and resume growth, the bacteria release several different types of potent neurotoxins that can cause the paralyzing disease botulism. The production of the neurotoxins acts as a defense mechanism for the bacteria for protection from intense heat, increased acidity, and possible fragmentation and damages.
> but when they are activated and resume growth, the bacteria release several different types of potent neurotoxins that can cause the paralyzing disease botulism. The production of the neurotoxins acts as a defense mechanism for the bacteria for protection from intense heat, increased acidity, and possible fragmentation and damages.
Distracting and compromising the immune system of a large animal while taking advantage of the free resources in the environment would probably have a very strong evolutionary advantage.
Or it could be more like the benefit yeast gets from producing alcohol, which it resists better than most other microbes.
Or it could be more like the benefit yeast gets from producing alcohol, which it resists better than most other microbes.
There are bacteria that are poisonous, and there are bacteria that aren't. Clearly, both strategies are viable. So I think any explanation has to explain not just that poison is an advantage, but explain when it is and when it isn't.
I assume this was posted because of the Otto Warmbier situation? [1]
[1]: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40308028
[1]: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40308028
Well, I don't want to defend or speak for North Korea. But there was a lot of anger regarding what happened to Warmbier.
Obviously NK overreacted for talking a "propaganda poster". He got XX years hard labor. But a westerner is normally kept in a hotel room in NK until an agreement has been reached and then he is released.
Warmbier had his medical "incident", as far as I know, over a year ago. So they must have fed him artificially and cared for him since. Also, AFAIK, they send an NMR image of his brain to the US doctors before he was released. I doubt that many North Koreans have access to this level of treatment.
So unfortunate this story is, I advise to use caution before reaching quick judgments.
Obviously NK overreacted for talking a "propaganda poster". He got XX years hard labor. But a westerner is normally kept in a hotel room in NK until an agreement has been reached and then he is released.
Warmbier had his medical "incident", as far as I know, over a year ago. So they must have fed him artificially and cared for him since. Also, AFAIK, they send an NMR image of his brain to the US doctors before he was released. I doubt that many North Koreans have access to this level of treatment.
So unfortunate this story is, I advise to use caution before reaching quick judgments.
> But a westerner is normally kept in a hotel room in NK until an agreement has been reached and then he is released.
This is not true. There have been multiple stories, such as the two journalists released a while back, that they are kept in small cement cells, often without light. It may vary depending on the person but I haven't heard someone being held in anything other than a typical prison cell.
They aren't beaten or physically abused but they do undergo some long-lasting psychological abuse.
Their stay usually lasts months as well.
This is not true. There have been multiple stories, such as the two journalists released a while back, that they are kept in small cement cells, often without light. It may vary depending on the person but I haven't heard someone being held in anything other than a typical prison cell.
They aren't beaten or physically abused but they do undergo some long-lasting psychological abuse.
Their stay usually lasts months as well.
They took care of him after the incident that caused brain damage, but is there any proof the incident itself was botulism?
His doctors say the pattern of brain damage does not match that of botulism. More symptomatic of a respiratory arrest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJKmyCKM7W0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJKmyCKM7W0
The pattern of brain injury they're referring to is probably "anoxic brain injury." Botulism itself doesn't cause that, but it certainly can cause respiratory failure (by paralyzing the phrenic nerve), which can then cause anoxic brain injury. There's no reliable way to tell at this point whether botulism was the cause in Warmbier's case (there's no test to find out after the fact). I'm an MD.
Of course the NK story is very suspect. We need more information, but it seems unlikely that we'll get it.
Of course the NK story is very suspect. We need more information, but it seems unlikely that we'll get it.
We're sure that he wasn't because he was beaten though, right?
There hasn't been any US prisoners in NK who were physically abused during their stay for PR purposes. I'm curious if he sustained a fall or some other accidental injury. Maybe he caused it himself and didn't get proper treatment.
He was held for an unusually long time compared to most people.
There hasn't been any US prisoners in NK who were physically abused during their stay for PR purposes. I'm curious if he sustained a fall or some other accidental injury. Maybe he caused it himself and didn't get proper treatment.
He was held for an unusually long time compared to most people.
No. We don't know what happened. I am not an MD. I am sure there are many options what could happened.
But the way he was taken care of and returned (they could have claimed he died) seems to suggest that he was not put into this condition on purpose.
But the way he was taken care of and returned (they could have claimed he died) seems to suggest that he was not put into this condition on purpose.
He was only returned after the Swedish embassy learned about his condition. He had already been in a coma for a year by then and would have stayed in the DPRK for the remainder of his sentence otherwise.
If they claimed that a man in his twenties had died of a heart attack as they did with Japanese citizens they abducted, that would have been an even bigger scandal.
If they claimed that a man in his twenties had died of a heart attack as they did with Japanese citizens they abducted, that would have been an even bigger scandal.
>But there was a lot of anger regarding what happened to Warmbier.
The news coverage of the incident has seemed rather strange to me. Nobody would be shocked if he had exited an US prison in a coma, although I guess people don't get out for "humanitarian reasons" in the US. (Except once every 4/8 years, I guess)
The news coverage of the incident has seemed rather strange to me. Nobody would be shocked if he had exited an US prison in a coma, although I guess people don't get out for "humanitarian reasons" in the US. (Except once every 4/8 years, I guess)
I think the outrage is moreso because he wasn't a spy or someone trying to attack DPRK or the North Koreans. He was imprisoned on relatively minor (speaking in context) charges and instead of simply being held prisoner seems to have suffered permanent disability.
Yes, and I'm trying to say that this would be nothing out of the ordinary for someone imprisoned for minor crimes in the US.
I mean in the US they regularly cook prisoners to death http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2009/09/dog-days-tu...
I mean in the US they regularly cook prisoners to death http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2009/09/dog-days-tu...
Wow... what did I just read....
I knew the prisoner situation in the US was harsh but this is unbelievable.
I knew the prisoner situation in the US was harsh but this is unbelievable.
I saw this recently too, in Northern California. Beware nachos from family-owned gas stations...
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/05/23/529589579/nac...
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/05/23/529589579/nac...
I didn't hear about this one but there was a recent outbreak of wild mushrooms being sold up in Northern California. It poisoned something like 17 people including one young child. I believe at least a few died from them.
Eating misidentified wild mushrooms causes liver failure not botulism.
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I wonder why there aren't any cheap, simple tests for botulism that people could use to test their home-cooked food. You'd think something like that would be available by now.
My guess is that it is so toxic that the quantities needed to kill you are nearly undetectable.
Please correct me, as this is only my personal understanding of how botulism works.
What kills me? Only the toxin. Neither the bacteria nor the spores are directly lethal.
How does the toxin get into my body?
A) I eat it, from food contaminated with toxin.
B) I breath it, from toxin in the air.
C) I eat or breath bacteria / spores, and they produce the toxin inside my body.
How does that happen?
A) Badly preserved food. Normal, fresh food, does not contain toxin, but can contain spores / bacteria. Over long periods of time (how long?), in the right conditions (low oxygen / low salt / low acid) bacteria will proliferate (even starting from the very resistant spores), and eventually produce toxin. This can not be seen / smelled, and is the source of most toxin poisoning.
B) Only in warfare, and not even sure if that's been developed. Maybe even forbidden by international conventions "regulating" warfare?
C) Only if I am a baby. Adult's digestive tract will kill both bacteria and spores, preventing toxin production.
How much toxin is lethal?
According to the article, a microgram can kill an adult.
What is the rate of toxin production by the bacteria? How long do I need to leave toxin-free food exposed to bacteria in order to become dangerously poisoned?
At home we usually leave cooked food standing for the next day (sometimes, against my will, outside the fridge) and then we heat it at low temperatures and eat it. Is this safe? Probably yes botulism-wise, but has other problems.
What kills me? Only the toxin. Neither the bacteria nor the spores are directly lethal.
How does the toxin get into my body?
A) I eat it, from food contaminated with toxin.
B) I breath it, from toxin in the air.
C) I eat or breath bacteria / spores, and they produce the toxin inside my body.
How does that happen?
A) Badly preserved food. Normal, fresh food, does not contain toxin, but can contain spores / bacteria. Over long periods of time (how long?), in the right conditions (low oxygen / low salt / low acid) bacteria will proliferate (even starting from the very resistant spores), and eventually produce toxin. This can not be seen / smelled, and is the source of most toxin poisoning.
B) Only in warfare, and not even sure if that's been developed. Maybe even forbidden by international conventions "regulating" warfare?
C) Only if I am a baby. Adult's digestive tract will kill both bacteria and spores, preventing toxin production.
How much toxin is lethal?
According to the article, a microgram can kill an adult.
What is the rate of toxin production by the bacteria? How long do I need to leave toxin-free food exposed to bacteria in order to become dangerously poisoned?
At home we usually leave cooked food standing for the next day (sometimes, against my will, outside the fridge) and then we heat it at low temperatures and eat it. Is this safe? Probably yes botulism-wise, but has other problems.
Even if there was no risk of botulism, attempting to make alcohol from potatoes and wild microbes sounds like a bad idea in any case. Yeast can't ferment starch directly, so you'd need some other microbe to ferment it to sugars first. Eg. to make sake, rice is fermented by koji (Aspergillus oryzae) to sugars, and then yeast further ferments it to alcohol. You almost certainly have wild yeasts floating about nearby, but it's less likely that there's something that will convert the starch to sugars effectively. You could easily end up with chunks of rotting potato and no extra alcohol from them.
>Yeast can't ferment starch directly
This isn't really true. Saccharomyces cerevisiae can't generally ferment starch directly, but various forms of Brettanomyces can. Wild yeast and bacteria that can ferment starch are pretty common -- a turbid mash (which leaves a bunch of starches in the wort) is still used before putting the wort into a cool ship to be inoculated with wild yeast and then fermented in barrels.
Granted, a true wild sour usually takes a few months to a few years to ferment out all the starches and develop the flavors that are so interesting, but "Yeast can't ferment starch directly" is an oversimplification.
This isn't really true. Saccharomyces cerevisiae can't generally ferment starch directly, but various forms of Brettanomyces can. Wild yeast and bacteria that can ferment starch are pretty common -- a turbid mash (which leaves a bunch of starches in the wort) is still used before putting the wort into a cool ship to be inoculated with wild yeast and then fermented in barrels.
Granted, a true wild sour usually takes a few months to a few years to ferment out all the starches and develop the flavors that are so interesting, but "Yeast can't ferment starch directly" is an oversimplification.
I think traditional moonshine recipes called for boiling potatoes first to convert starch to sugars. Also baking yeast is quite effective at fermentation and survives to fairly high alcohol levels.
For fun some years ago I made some moonshine using cornmeal and brown sugar. Built my own still too, fun stuff. Just gotta make sure everything is lead free and discard heads and tails.
I used a valved reflux still and kept temps within a couple degrees of ideal. Ran the result through carbon filters at the end. Couldn't tell the difference between my stuff and everclear
For fun some years ago I made some moonshine using cornmeal and brown sugar. Built my own still too, fun stuff. Just gotta make sure everything is lead free and discard heads and tails.
I used a valved reflux still and kept temps within a couple degrees of ideal. Ran the result through carbon filters at the end. Couldn't tell the difference between my stuff and everclear
A readily available way to make sugar from starch is saliva. Chew your potato for a while, spit it into the jar, repeat. That's the traditional way to produce maize beer in Amazonia and elsewhere :)
Botulism is incredibly rare in Europe (maybe a handful of cases in each country per year); in which regions is it an issue? The article mentions canned foods which I imagine are not so common in countries with food scarcity.
The article mentions infants who are at greater risk.
The article is also talking about home canned foods.
Here's the CDC surveillance report on botulism for 2015: https://www.cdc.gov/nationalsurveillance/pdfs/botulism_cste_...
> A total of 199 confirmed and 14 probable cases of botulism were reported to CDC in 2015. Among confirmed cases, infant botulism accounted for 141 (71%) cases, foodborne botulism for 39 (20%) cases, wound botulism for 15 (8%) cases, and botulism of unknown or other transmission category for 4 (2%) cases (Table 1). Among probable cases, foodborne botulism accounted for 6 (43%) cases and wound botulism for 8 (57%) cases.
> The 141 cases of infant botulism were reported from 33 states and the District of Columbia. The median age of patients was 2.7 months with a range of 0 – 10 months; 70 (50%) were girls. Toxin type A accounted for 60 (43%), toxin type B accounted for 79 (56%), and toxin type Bf accounted for 2 (1%). No deaths were reported.
> The 39 cases of confirmed foodborne botulism were reported from 7 states (Figure 1). The median age of patients was 59 years with a range of 9 – 92 years; 25 (64%) were women. There were 5 outbreaks (events with two or more cases) accounting for 37 confirmed cases. One outbreak was associated with home-canned potatoes in a potato salad served at a church potluck (27 cases),† one was associated with fermented seal flipper (4 cases), and one was associated with beets roasted in aluminum foil and kept at room temperature for several days then made into a soup (2 cases). In addition, there were two outbreaks of two cases each living in the same household or facility in which the foodborne source was unknown (Tab
The article is also talking about home canned foods.
Here's the CDC surveillance report on botulism for 2015: https://www.cdc.gov/nationalsurveillance/pdfs/botulism_cste_...
> A total of 199 confirmed and 14 probable cases of botulism were reported to CDC in 2015. Among confirmed cases, infant botulism accounted for 141 (71%) cases, foodborne botulism for 39 (20%) cases, wound botulism for 15 (8%) cases, and botulism of unknown or other transmission category for 4 (2%) cases (Table 1). Among probable cases, foodborne botulism accounted for 6 (43%) cases and wound botulism for 8 (57%) cases.
> The 141 cases of infant botulism were reported from 33 states and the District of Columbia. The median age of patients was 2.7 months with a range of 0 – 10 months; 70 (50%) were girls. Toxin type A accounted for 60 (43%), toxin type B accounted for 79 (56%), and toxin type Bf accounted for 2 (1%). No deaths were reported.
> The 39 cases of confirmed foodborne botulism were reported from 7 states (Figure 1). The median age of patients was 59 years with a range of 9 – 92 years; 25 (64%) were women. There were 5 outbreaks (events with two or more cases) accounting for 37 confirmed cases. One outbreak was associated with home-canned potatoes in a potato salad served at a church potluck (27 cases),† one was associated with fermented seal flipper (4 cases), and one was associated with beets roasted in aluminum foil and kept at room temperature for several days then made into a soup (2 cases). In addition, there were two outbreaks of two cases each living in the same household or facility in which the foodborne source was unknown (Tab
There was a really bad incident in Greenland in 2013[1]. They were making kiviak, auk fermented in the carcass of a seal. I heard it was the use of eider birds instead of auk that prevented proper fermentation, but this article included that a plastic bag was used in the preparation of this batch of kiviak presumably with the auk birds in the plastic bag inside of the seal carcass. Perfect low oxygen conditions for C. Botulinum to thrive.
[1] https://thefourthcontinent.com/2013/08/07/greenland-terducke...
[1] https://thefourthcontinent.com/2013/08/07/greenland-terducke...
> Simply put, about 400 dead birds (usually auk) are stuffed into a body of a dead seal and left under a rock to ferment for many months. Prepared this way, the seal’s fat tenderises and preserves it, which means that you can eat the entire bird raw, save the feathers. The innards turn into a liquid, and a popular way to consume it is by biting the head off and sucking out the juices inside.
Holy crap. Dying of paralysis sounds like a mercy.
Holy crap. Dying of paralysis sounds like a mercy.
Botulism spores are also found in honey. It's in small enough amounts it's not a problem for adults, but this is why you don't give babies honey until 1 year old.
Fascinating, I bet the vast majority of the population has no idea regarding the dangers of canning.
Wouldn't this risk apply to all food preservation?
Wouldn't this risk apply to all food preservation?
This should be in a hitch-hiker's-guide-like guide offline woven into our clothes for the distopian future.
Salmonella and botulism are in part the reasons of why canned food usually come with a layer of Bisphenol A (aka BPA).
Botulism is rather infrequent but 2 ways I can think of getting it: 1) giving honey to infants, 2) eating food from dented cans.
Botulism is rather infrequent but 2 ways I can think of getting it: 1) giving honey to infants, 2) eating food from dented cans.
>Brazenly, he sampled a few drops of this extract himself
Damn that's hardcore. Observes that it kills animals so he tries a little himself. wow.
Damn that's hardcore. Observes that it kills animals so he tries a little himself. wow.
influx(1)
People inject this into their face. Housewives.
So? It's safe and effective in that application. My wife used to get it administered in the brow, temples and neck for migraines. You're not going to wind up paralyzed.
See also: formaldehyde, which is both toxic and required by our bodies to create some critical amino acids.
See also: formaldehyde, which is both toxic and required by our bodies to create some critical amino acids.
The open source food safety idea is genius.
Understand the bacterias ecosystem is also a good way to understand home food preservation, in a salty and no oxygen environment (like salted water) you incentive lactobacillus that will consume sugars to produce lactic acid (and thus lower the ph), hence not a good environment for Clostridium Botulinum and fungi...so yes you can use heat to kill Clostridium Botulinum but you can also use other bacterias and the environment, the problem with heat is that you often kill "all" the bacterias leaving a highway for "pathogen" ones if the heating was not done properly.
Lacto-fermentation is a fascinating world: https://www.thespruce.com/g00/how-lacto-fermentation-works-1...
And as a french guy, here we know a lot about cheese and lacto-fermentation :-) as all cheese, after coagulation, start from the transformation of lactose (a sugar) to lactic acid thanks to the bacterias (and lot of french cheese use...salted water).
UPDATE: the official recommandations to remove the toxin produced by Clostridium Botulinum: boil during 10 minutes, to kill the spore: heat above 120°C during at least 30 minutes, to prevent its proliferation in the first place: water with NaCl at a 15% concentration, OR 2% of acetic acid (vinegar) OR oxygen (but in that case the fungi will gently occupy the place).