OpenMoko: 10 Years After(vanille.de)
vanille.de
OpenMoko: 10 Years After
http://www.vanille.de/openmoko-10-years-after-mickeys-story/
71 comments
I loved my freerunner but the article hit the nail on the head - there seemed to be a whole bunch of half-finished software stacks for it, rather than ome complete one.
The next one, which was definitely going to be the real future of Openmoko, was always a few months away, and as soon as it got close you'd find out the team had ditched the framework and were already working on the next next one.
As a result, as someone who had wanted to jump in and start experimenting with writing application code, there wasn't really a platform to do that on. So after a few months of frustratingly dropped calls, or silent calls and unsent text messages, I went out and bought a small, shiny feature phone and didn't look at another smartphone until the nokia N900 showed up.
The next one, which was definitely going to be the real future of Openmoko, was always a few months away, and as soon as it got close you'd find out the team had ditched the framework and were already working on the next next one.
As a result, as someone who had wanted to jump in and start experimenting with writing application code, there wasn't really a platform to do that on. So after a few months of frustratingly dropped calls, or silent calls and unsent text messages, I went out and bought a small, shiny feature phone and didn't look at another smartphone until the nokia N900 showed up.
That seems to be an ongoing problem with FOSS.
Because nobody is there to crack whips about quality targets etc, devs keep wondering off path as they run out of shiny features to implement, or find themselves going "I could do X if only...", and thus a new codebase is birthed...
Because nobody is there to crack whips about quality targets etc, devs keep wondering off path as they run out of shiny features to implement, or find themselves going "I could do X if only...", and thus a new codebase is birthed...
The major problem in this case (IMHO) was that there was someone to crack the whip, and they didn't do it!
The project was run by a company who had employees and at least one manager, but nobody was setting a direction for those employees to move in, and making the hard decisions (like "no, we're sticking with this stack to get something stable and production ready, even if it is flawed").
The project was run by a company who had employees and at least one manager, but nobody was setting a direction for those employees to move in, and making the hard decisions (like "no, we're sticking with this stack to get something stable and production ready, even if it is flawed").
Or rather, it makes you wonder if the devs ever used the software themselves. In my experience, above all else, dogfooding is what gets software into a productive state.
I'm grateful to OpenMoko every time I fire up dfu-util to flash something over USB.
Has anyone tried to approach the Shenzhen companies doing quality knockoffs of iPhones and Galaxies about doing a FOSS phone with OpenMoko features? I mean, they clearly can build one. Question is whether they would for a reasonable amount of money.
The problem is these would be gonkai phones (see link). Within the western legal framework of "intellectual property" you can't open source what you don't own. The impedance miss-match between the two working methodologies makes any conversion a lot of work, e.g. the Fernvale effort to make a open hardware _dumb_ phone platform: https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4297
I also still have my Freerunner in a drawer somewhere. I bought the phone early on and then ended up starting the android-on-freerunner project[1], when Koolu, the company that had begun an Android port, abandoned the project. I used the Cupcake version as a daily driver for quite a while, but it was never anywhere near as stable as a "real" phone.
1 - https://gitlab.com/android-on-freerunner/android-on-freerunn...
1 - https://gitlab.com/android-on-freerunner/android-on-freerunn...
I bought a Neo Freerunner when it came out. I tried make it my daily phone, and invested a lot of time hacking on it - in the end a wasted effort. There were show-stopper bugs and face-palm-worthy design missteps at every level of the stack.
Its developer community was fragmented among a half-dozen different distros from birth; Openmoko themselves forked their own distro so that even if you wanted to run the "official" one, you had two incompatible choices - and neither the two "official" distros, nor any of the user-developed ones, supported all of the hardware + apps necessary to actually use this thing as a phone. (I.e. one might have audio but not support making calls; another might support making calls but no audio volume; a third might lose all your contacts, etc.) If we could have taken the union of features from all these distros, it could have had a great smartphone OS; that just goes to show what gratuitous fragmentation cost us.
As for hardware, we were screwed from both sides by the hardware companies (flaky drivers) and Openmoko's own circuit design. Due to driver/card incompatibility, I never found a high capacity SD card which would work completely reliably in the phone; only the cramped 512MB SD card which came with the phone worked reliably. Mind you most of the time the problem would show up after you spent a few hours compiling & setting up Gentoo or whatever on a new 8GB SD card only to have the 3rd boot fail with a corrupted card.
And in the circuit design side, from the specific problems the phone's board had, I get the feeling Openmoko's engineers were computer engineers but not very knowledgeable in audio electronics. They failed to properly separate and route the audio ground, nor to give a good range of audio volumes, and connections for the mixer chip were a mess. Actually, electrical noise was a problem in other areas, as well; accessing the SD card generated noise or RF leakage which would cause the GPS unit to lose it's lock. (So good luck loading a map while navigating.) Interference in bandwidth (albeit just in contention for buses, not actually noise) was also responsible for the limitation of not being able to use the SD card and talk to the video processor at full rate at the same time - so playing video from the card was not workable, either.
I had some fun with the device, learned a little bit, and ultimately rebuilt it into a larger case with a larger battery and an amplifier for the earpiece. However, I would have been better served if I had done all these things on a development board, rather than being tricked into buying a prototype development board shaped like a phone. The experience led to me "missing the boat" on getting into mobile development; it took a long time for me to get another smartphone, because I had blown my money and my efforts on the freerunner. For the next couple years whenever I would consider getting another smartphone my then-wife (now ex) would counter "yeah that's what you said when you wanted to buy the freerunner - and you have that and you don't even use it!"
Its developer community was fragmented among a half-dozen different distros from birth; Openmoko themselves forked their own distro so that even if you wanted to run the "official" one, you had two incompatible choices - and neither the two "official" distros, nor any of the user-developed ones, supported all of the hardware + apps necessary to actually use this thing as a phone. (I.e. one might have audio but not support making calls; another might support making calls but no audio volume; a third might lose all your contacts, etc.) If we could have taken the union of features from all these distros, it could have had a great smartphone OS; that just goes to show what gratuitous fragmentation cost us.
As for hardware, we were screwed from both sides by the hardware companies (flaky drivers) and Openmoko's own circuit design. Due to driver/card incompatibility, I never found a high capacity SD card which would work completely reliably in the phone; only the cramped 512MB SD card which came with the phone worked reliably. Mind you most of the time the problem would show up after you spent a few hours compiling & setting up Gentoo or whatever on a new 8GB SD card only to have the 3rd boot fail with a corrupted card.
And in the circuit design side, from the specific problems the phone's board had, I get the feeling Openmoko's engineers were computer engineers but not very knowledgeable in audio electronics. They failed to properly separate and route the audio ground, nor to give a good range of audio volumes, and connections for the mixer chip were a mess. Actually, electrical noise was a problem in other areas, as well; accessing the SD card generated noise or RF leakage which would cause the GPS unit to lose it's lock. (So good luck loading a map while navigating.) Interference in bandwidth (albeit just in contention for buses, not actually noise) was also responsible for the limitation of not being able to use the SD card and talk to the video processor at full rate at the same time - so playing video from the card was not workable, either.
I had some fun with the device, learned a little bit, and ultimately rebuilt it into a larger case with a larger battery and an amplifier for the earpiece. However, I would have been better served if I had done all these things on a development board, rather than being tricked into buying a prototype development board shaped like a phone. The experience led to me "missing the boat" on getting into mobile development; it took a long time for me to get another smartphone, because I had blown my money and my efforts on the freerunner. For the next couple years whenever I would consider getting another smartphone my then-wife (now ex) would counter "yeah that's what you said when you wanted to buy the freerunner - and you have that and you don't even use it!"
Thank you for the summary, it perfectly pictures my experience too. I had spent do much time and effort (did the audio cap fix, baseband update and few more)... So much that even now phone calls with my brother (also freerunner ex-user) still start with "do you have an echo".
I used freerunner for quite some time as secondary phone, developed an app or two in python/enlightenment (efl), wrote much of the SHR wiki manual and ended up not even considering Firefox phone or Ubuntu phone at all...
I used freerunner for quite some time as secondary phone, developed an app or two in python/enlightenment (efl), wrote much of the SHR wiki manual and ended up not even considering Firefox phone or Ubuntu phone at all...
I still remember how happy i was holding the first Opensource Linux phone in my hands back in 2008 . It was fun to compile a basic c program using gcc . I remember my first hack of my life #1024 http://neofundas.blogspot.ie/2009/09/1024-hardware-fixdeep-s...
Also remember when at 6.30 AM in morning you have to type "ps -ef | grep -i alarm" , find the process id and then kill -9 id to stop the alarm and that too using the stylus. Definitely these commands will make sure that you will wake up 100% , a perfect alarm :)
As usual here's another victim of the free software problem - too much emphasis on freedom and not enough on actual functionality.
I don't care how free your phone is, if it can't make phone calls I don't want it, nor does anyone else.
I don't care how free your phone is, if it can't make phone calls I don't want it, nor does anyone else.
I remember 2007, when I started my bachelors degree some senior students had one and were so proud.
Half a year later, nobody talked about it anymore and it was iPhone all the way.
Half a year later, nobody talked about it anymore and it was iPhone all the way.
I'm genuinely surprised to find out, in this thread, that so many people actually bought an Openmoko device. I only remember it being a perennial work-in-progress, and when they eventually started actually selling something, it was so painfully obsolete that I couldn't get myself to consider it (unlike the N900).
It's sampling bias: the sort of people who would buy an Openmoko device even before it has working software are also the sort of people who would browse HN regularly.
Or even more so, comment on this thread.
I wasn't going to, because I didn't have one - but one of my coworkers at the time had one, and we absolutely made fun of him that he had to first get a new kernel to be able to either send a text message or make a call (don't remember which of the two, the other one didn't work at all).
I wasn't going to, because I didn't have one - but one of my coworkers at the time had one, and we absolutely made fun of him that he had to first get a new kernel to be able to either send a text message or make a call (don't remember which of the two, the other one didn't work at all).
Ah, nostalgia. I remember attending a big OpenMoko announcement as FOSDEM. Naturally, it being FOSDEM, it was allocated a tiny room which was completely and utterly packed. g
I've always wanted to run openmoko. If I could run it on modern phones and replace android, I totally would.
I remember John "Maddog" Hall speaking about it in Brazil. I was just a kid at the time.
Yeah, Maddog had something he was running that was supporting them with Android.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koolu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koolu
I remember these, definitely had it's unique features about them at the time.
I bought one of these way back when. It was the model with the hole in it for hooking to a lanyard or something else absurd...
It was so dumb and jittery I microwaved it a little and then swatted it off my roof with a tennis racket.
Was fun, would destroy again 10/10
It was so dumb and jittery I microwaved it a little and then swatted it off my roof with a tennis racket.
Was fun, would destroy again 10/10
I still have my Freerunner in a box somewhere. So much promise...
I keep wondering if there's something I could do with it. At this point, though, it's probably more a historical footnote than anything.
I keep wondering if there's something I could do with it. At this point, though, it's probably more a historical footnote than anything.
Here's a small discussion from 10 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14388
[deleted]
Since the main page is a bit slow, here's a mirror:
https://archive.is/8wYHe
https://archive.is/8wYHe
This is a project I followed pretty closely at the time and I always felt it was doomed. There were probably 100 reasons it failed that I wasn't aware of but it seemed at the time like people really wanted the open software and platform but OpenMoki got religious about hardware which no one really wanted or cared about. Ultimately this was the route Android went and we see the results.
It is classic for FOSS wonks (I am one!) to forget that most people don't care about the principles of FOSS, they just care about the practical implications of FOSS which aren't always the same thing.
It is classic for FOSS wonks (I am one!) to forget that most people don't care about the principles of FOSS, they just care about the practical implications of FOSS which aren't always the same thing.
I see a contradiction in your arguments:
> it seemed at the time like people really wanted the open software and platform
vs.
> It is classic for FOSS wonks (I am one!) to forget that most people don't care about the principles of FOSS
> it seemed at the time like people really wanted the open software and platform
vs.
> It is classic for FOSS wonks (I am one!) to forget that most people don't care about the principles of FOSS
There's the community and then there's paying customers. The former want open software and platform, the latter want a functioning phone. They're both "people", but they're not necessarily the same "people".
But if
> it seemed at the time like people really wanted the open software and platform
is true, there should nevertheless be a sufficiently large audience. The product will perhaps never become mainstream, but the audience should be sufficiently large that a company can survive on them as customers.
> it seemed at the time like people really wanted the open software and platform
is true, there should nevertheless be a sufficiently large audience. The product will perhaps never become mainstream, but the audience should be sufficiently large that a company can survive on them as customers.
How is that a contradiction? My point is that open software has large and immediate positive implications for end users but hardware does not.
If you really want an open software and platform (statement 1) you care about the principles of FOSS (a contradiction to statement 2), since if you only want some specific side benefits that FOSS provides, there exist "better" (quotes because as an FOSS fan these are note better) options.
No true Scotsman fallacy.
"If you really want an open source platform" is interpreted to mean different things to different people. Open source may literally mean "open source" without the associated zealous frothing at the mouth RMS association. No contradiction here.
"If you really want an open source platform" is interpreted to mean different things to different people. Open source may literally mean "open source" without the associated zealous frothing at the mouth RMS association. No contradiction here.
Yeah, Android put the effort into software and let manufacturers deal with the hardware.
It's sad that their approach failed though, I'd really like a modern device with something like OsmocomBB available right about now...
It's sad that their approach failed though, I'd really like a modern device with something like OsmocomBB available right about now...
Doesn't close on a bright note:
>However, the sad truth is that it looks like there is no business case anymore for a truly open platform based on custom-designed hardware, since people refuse to spend extra money for tweakability, freedom, and security. Despite us living in times where privacy is massively endangered. If anyone out there thinks different and plans a project, please holler and get me on board!
>However, the sad truth is that it looks like there is no business case anymore for a truly open platform based on custom-designed hardware, since people refuse to spend extra money for tweakability, freedom, and security. Despite us living in times where privacy is massively endangered. If anyone out there thinks different and plans a project, please holler and get me on board!
No, that wasn't it. I had the 2nd-gen openmoko phone. It just didn't work. You won't get users until you have something that /does something/. I never even got a phone call made with it. The system didn't have enough of a working spine to make it worth investing time or energy into to get it further.
If you want an open source project to work, it has to already work and then have easy places where people can start making changes. Otherwise, they don't know how much work is needed to get anything done, and don't want to risk weeks of work for minimal, if any, results.
If you want an open source project to work, it has to already work and then have easy places where people can start making changes. Otherwise, they don't know how much work is needed to get anything done, and don't want to risk weeks of work for minimal, if any, results.
This is one of my most frequent criticisms about open source software. jwz wrote about it almost 20 years ago. (It can even apply to highly polished software like Android, or Signal, or Firefox today, that for one reason or another make things really difficult to work with—if you can work with them at all.)
> People only really contribute when they get something out of it. When someone is first beginning to contribute, they especially need to see some kind of payback, some kind of positive reinforcement, right away. For example, if someone were running a web browser, then stopped, added a simple new command to the source, recompiled, and had that same web browser plus their addition, they would be motivated to do this again, and possibly to tackle even larger projects.
> We never got there. We never distributed the source code to a working web browser, more importantly, to the web browser that people were actually using. We didn't release the source code to the most-previous-release of Netscape Navigator: instead, we released what we had at the time, which had a number of incomplete features, and lots and lots of bugs. And of course we weren't able to release any Java or crypto code at all.
> What we released was a large pile of interesting code, but it didn't much resemble something you could actually use.
"nomo zilla: resignation and postmortem". 1999. https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html
> People only really contribute when they get something out of it. When someone is first beginning to contribute, they especially need to see some kind of payback, some kind of positive reinforcement, right away. For example, if someone were running a web browser, then stopped, added a simple new command to the source, recompiled, and had that same web browser plus their addition, they would be motivated to do this again, and possibly to tackle even larger projects.
> We never got there. We never distributed the source code to a working web browser, more importantly, to the web browser that people were actually using. We didn't release the source code to the most-previous-release of Netscape Navigator: instead, we released what we had at the time, which had a number of incomplete features, and lots and lots of bugs. And of course we weren't able to release any Java or crypto code at all.
> What we released was a large pile of interesting code, but it didn't much resemble something you could actually use.
"nomo zilla: resignation and postmortem". 1999. https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html
Note that jwz redirects traffic coming from HN to an imgur photo of a testicle.
To view this article, right click and choose "Open link in incognito window" or click https://anon.to/?https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html
To view this article, right click and choose "Open link in incognito window" or click https://anon.to/?https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html
Does he? I just clicked on the link and it was fine for me, no genitalia so far.
Maybe he's got a whitelist for some specific articles he allows HN to view.
Edit: never mind it's just my browser somehow stripping referer headers.
Maybe he's got a whitelist for some specific articles he allows HN to view.
Edit: never mind it's just my browser somehow stripping referer headers.
$ curl -IA "foo" https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
$ curl -IA "foo" --referer "news.ycombinator.com" https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html
HTTP/1.1 302 Found
Location: http://i.imgur.com/32R3qLv.png
Safari with uBlock Origin. It could just be Safari's default configuration that for some reason strips referers. In any case I'm glad it protects me from this sort of stuff especially at work. What a dick move from JWZ (no pun intended).
In my opinion, with a couple of phase 0 devices sitting in their fancy lock-tite boxes gathering dust - while the dev workbench is littered with current-target mobile devices far in advance - the only difference is that the hardware team behind OpenMoko ran out of gumption/funding/$$$.
Hardware is much harder to do, the more you screw it up.
Designs which don't work - i.e. basic power management - will cripple early-stage hardware development, and its one of the reasons hardware, is well .. hard.
OpenMoko didn't screw up, open-source-wise, no sir. I think you are mistaken in this claim.
Where they screwed up is not getting the hardware really nailed, such that it warranted actual production in the 10's of 1000's of units. It had to work, and you have to ship in the 5x'es before you gain any traction with a new hardware platform.
OpenMoko was many things (I still have 3) .. but it wasn't a failure of open source software. Without that stack, the thing wouldn't have even gotten off the ground. It didn't reach orbit, because of that 5x traction ..
Hardware is much harder to do, the more you screw it up.
Designs which don't work - i.e. basic power management - will cripple early-stage hardware development, and its one of the reasons hardware, is well .. hard.
OpenMoko didn't screw up, open-source-wise, no sir. I think you are mistaken in this claim.
Where they screwed up is not getting the hardware really nailed, such that it warranted actual production in the 10's of 1000's of units. It had to work, and you have to ship in the 5x'es before you gain any traction with a new hardware platform.
OpenMoko was many things (I still have 3) .. but it wasn't a failure of open source software. Without that stack, the thing wouldn't have even gotten off the ground. It didn't reach orbit, because of that 5x traction ..
I think that jwz enjoyed a reputation beyond his deserts. I don't find him particularly insightful. I also don't seem to take your point in mentioning this? Is this really an "open source" thing? Is it a bad thing, or merely an effect of a normal software development practice?
Although I don't know what "a reputation beyond his deserts means", I do know that focusing on jwz is not relevant. Either the message is true, or it isn't. Anything else is classic ad hominem and a digression from the point, you know?
> Is this really an "open source" thing?
Well, that the source be open to hack on is something that's pretty much a precondition to the situation where some random person finds themselves attempting to contribute to someone else's project. If you know of a way that's possible with anything that isn't open source, then maybe give an example? (If you interpreted my comment as one intended to be an argument against open source—and in favor of closed source, say—then you interpreted it incorrectly.)
> Is it a bad thing
A project that seeks contributors but exists in a state where contribution is more difficult than it could be is very much something I would call a bad thing.
> normal software development
"Normal"? Maybe. Yes, even. But not an intrinsic side effect of trying to develop software or run a project.
> Is this really an "open source" thing?
Well, that the source be open to hack on is something that's pretty much a precondition to the situation where some random person finds themselves attempting to contribute to someone else's project. If you know of a way that's possible with anything that isn't open source, then maybe give an example? (If you interpreted my comment as one intended to be an argument against open source—and in favor of closed source, say—then you interpreted it incorrectly.)
> Is it a bad thing
A project that seeks contributors but exists in a state where contribution is more difficult than it could be is very much something I would call a bad thing.
> normal software development
"Normal"? Maybe. Yes, even. But not an intrinsic side effect of trying to develop software or run a project.
> I do know that focusing on jwz is not relevant.
You could have made your point yourself, but you quoted jwz at length because you felt it loaned more credibility to the idea than if you had used your own words. I guess that was your intent, and I could be entirely wrong, but I don't blame someone else for making that conclusion.
> Either the message is true, or it isn't.
This is a discussion board. People discuss ideas. He did address your point, but he also discussed a tangent you introduced.
You could have made your point yourself, but you quoted jwz at length because you felt it loaned more credibility to the idea than if you had used your own words. I guess that was your intent, and I could be entirely wrong, but I don't blame someone else for making that conclusion.
> Either the message is true, or it isn't.
This is a discussion board. People discuss ideas. He did address your point, but he also discussed a tangent you introduced.
As this is partially a matter of opinion I believe that the character and prejudices of jwz can be called into question in a relevant manner. He was once renowned as a wise and talented programmer. That was a while ago. He's most famous for negative and somewhat inflammatory opinions. I'm not going to say that I think his argument here is bad by virtue of that, which I hope excuses me from ad hominem, but I question the applicability and the degree to which his wisdom can be generally applied. There's few enough people who don't know something I don't know, but if this is one of those things then I'd like to hear a bit more corroboration of these opinions.
(apologizes for responding to you and not GP directly with some criticisms. I had a response typed somewhere...)
(apologizes for responding to you and not GP directly with some criticisms. I had a response typed somewhere...)
I think it may be a bit premature.
Just look at what people are doing with RPis and various radio boards.
There was one such project posted on HN recently that had a RPi Zero W hooked up to a touch screen and a mobile radio. All battery powered.
In a sense the Openmoko was too early and too bespoke. Thus driving the cost of entry for would be tinkerers through the roof.
Just look at what people are doing with RPis and various radio boards.
There was one such project posted on HN recently that had a RPi Zero W hooked up to a touch screen and a mobile radio. All battery powered.
In a sense the Openmoko was too early and too bespoke. Thus driving the cost of entry for would be tinkerers through the roof.
I think it goes to the other poster's point: "You won't get users until you have something that /does something/"
The RPi was ready to roll out of the gate - they had a working Linux distro from the get-go that actually worked. They also provided really simple instructions on how to get said Linux distro onto a SD card. You can boot the RPi and have it be useful within a matter of minutes.
Openmoko simply never got near enough to working where the community felt like picking it up and running with it.
I don't think Openmoko was premature - it was incomplete. You're not going to get much participation from the community if doing anything useful on your platform first involves fixing/finishing the platform.
The RPi was ready to roll out of the gate - they had a working Linux distro from the get-go that actually worked. They also provided really simple instructions on how to get said Linux distro onto a SD card. You can boot the RPi and have it be useful within a matter of minutes.
Openmoko simply never got near enough to working where the community felt like picking it up and running with it.
I don't think Openmoko was premature - it was incomplete. You're not going to get much participation from the community if doing anything useful on your platform first involves fixing/finishing the platform.
You're right. The rpi is feature complete for me. Everything works as expected. I don't have to change any of the platform or OS code. I can simply build on top. But I guess shipping a feature complete smartphone is much harder.
The Pi zero phone is a cool hack but I doubt many would opt to use it as a 'daily driver'.
Broadcom, according to the wikipedia page for VideoCore, did however make a couple of Cortex-A9/A7 SoCs that made their way into low end 2012-3 era Android phones.
Perhaps a startup might recycle old Broadcom-based HTC and Samsung models in collaboration with the RPi team.
Broadcom, according to the wikipedia page for VideoCore, did however make a couple of Cortex-A9/A7 SoCs that made their way into low end 2012-3 era Android phones.
Perhaps a startup might recycle old Broadcom-based HTC and Samsung models in collaboration with the RPi team.
Perhaps. Thing is though that by bring a generic stack of boards, it does not live or die by that one project.
A RPiZ with a mobile data connection but no screen is still a potential IoT platform etc.
Openmoko with its bespoke board lived or died by how well it performed as a phone.
A RPiZ with a mobile data connection but no screen is still a potential IoT platform etc.
Openmoko with its bespoke board lived or died by how well it performed as a phone.
I've hope projects like Halium, UBports, Plasma Mobile, etc end up bringing an open hardware project.
Yeah, it seems like mobile oses are about as common as Linux distros in 1995. Sailfish, Maru, lineage, among the two you mention. If you have a nexus 5 or one plus one, you're in luck.
I recently tried lineage, ubports and plasma, and though I liked ubports, lineage was a breath of fresh air. Selinux, opengapps, regular privacy notifications, twrp, and privacy and security seem to have not taken a back seat in general. Sign me up.
If there hadn't been contracts 10yrs ago, I probably would have gotten an openmoko. Wanted one badly. If lineage, ubports, and plasma among others can keep developing alternatives to stock android, no reason to see why at least some or all hardware doesn't follow. It's taken AMD the better part of 10 years to have open source drivers that are as good as their closed source drivers on almost all of their GPUs if I'm not mistaken.
I recently tried lineage, ubports and plasma, and though I liked ubports, lineage was a breath of fresh air. Selinux, opengapps, regular privacy notifications, twrp, and privacy and security seem to have not taken a back seat in general. Sign me up.
If there hadn't been contracts 10yrs ago, I probably would have gotten an openmoko. Wanted one badly. If lineage, ubports, and plasma among others can keep developing alternatives to stock android, no reason to see why at least some or all hardware doesn't follow. It's taken AMD the better part of 10 years to have open source drivers that are as good as their closed source drivers on almost all of their GPUs if I'm not mistaken.
> If you have a nexus 5 or one plus one, you're in luck.
Which raises the question: if you want a phone that can run a FOSS mobile OS, what do you choose today? Nexus 5 and OPO were great a few years back (I bought the latter) but there is a need in the marketplace for (read: I need) an updated product that can run such a mobile OS.
Which raises the question: if you want a phone that can run a FOSS mobile OS, what do you choose today? Nexus 5 and OPO were great a few years back (I bought the latter) but there is a need in the marketplace for (read: I need) an updated product that can run such a mobile OS.
Your best bet is to keep an eye on what Halium Project[+] choose as its reference phones.
[+] https://halium.org/
[+] https://halium.org/
What's the difference between Halium and Mer? They both seem to be similar projects.
Packaging. If I understand correctly, Halium's goals are simpler in just doing enough to bootstrap the libhybris layer.
This allows projects such as Mer, Plasma Mobile, LuneOS, UBports and AsteroidOS etc to pool efforts without any distro-specific assumptions.
This allows projects such as Mer, Plasma Mobile, LuneOS, UBports and AsteroidOS etc to pool efforts without any distro-specific assumptions.
Currently it's the Nexus 5.
Depends on how open you want to be. Is CopperheadOS open enough for you? Then get a Nexus 5x/6P or a Pixel with the OS preinstalled.
Yep, Lineage is available on a 5X, Samsung S7, LG G5, etc.. Libhybris/Halium uses the driver parts of AOSP if I understand correctly, and Lineage uses ART in addition, they are all dependent on AOSP in some way currently atleast.
Google's project treble might make haliums' job a bit easier, so you might see halium on more devices than you'd think. Just speculating.
Google's project treble might make haliums' job a bit easier, so you might see halium on more devices than you'd think. Just speculating.
I could be wrong, but my feeling at the time was there was a lack of experience of a strong low-level hardware designer. I remember bug #1024... all I really wanted to use my freerunner daily was making/receiving calls (you know basic phone stuff), something flip phones at the time were absolutely rock-solid at.
I was one of the Google Summer of Code "interns" for OpenMoko back in 2008. I was so excited to get the free OpenMoko device and actually implemented gesture recognition and screen orientation for the device part of the GSoC project. Here's a video of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2S2rQUETwc
But let me tell you about the device:
1. You couldn't even make a phone call with it. There was a hardware bug that stopped it from making phone calls. It was basically a PDA...
2. If the battery ever ran out, you couldn't start the phone anymore. You had to have a spare Nokia phone that you'd use to charge that battery. Thank god they were using Nokia-compatible batteries. The gist was, never ever to let the phone's battery reach 0%.
3. The development of any UX components was cumbersome. They always insisted in supporting GTK and another platform which I forgot its name. They were such a small team and yet they were building two projects which essentially were doing the same thing. Why?!
Those three were just a few problems. The Freerunner was definitely not a user-friendly phone.
But let me tell you about the device:
1. You couldn't even make a phone call with it. There was a hardware bug that stopped it from making phone calls. It was basically a PDA...
2. If the battery ever ran out, you couldn't start the phone anymore. You had to have a spare Nokia phone that you'd use to charge that battery. Thank god they were using Nokia-compatible batteries. The gist was, never ever to let the phone's battery reach 0%.
3. The development of any UX components was cumbersome. They always insisted in supporting GTK and another platform which I forgot its name. They were such a small team and yet they were building two projects which essentially were doing the same thing. Why?!
Those three were just a few problems. The Freerunner was definitely not a user-friendly phone.
I worked at the Free Software Foundation at the time. We were lucky to know someone at MIT with access to the tools to fix the tiny hardware bug by soldering something near the SD card slot IIRC.
We also had multiple batteries and multiple beefy micro USB chargers (used later on our G1s) as well as external Nokia battery chargers around the place.
I think I managed to take a call once. I could never send SMS, but I would play a lot of numptyphysics on the MBTA with the combination ballpoint pen/mechanical pencil/stylus I bought.
Sean visited us in the office a couple of times beforehand. I remember showing him some of the HTML tricks Apple were doing for Mobile Safari with viewports and fullscreen things, I don't think anyone ever implemented them. This was pre-App Store too, I think.
I remember being so wary that someone would steal my awesome new phone at first, but that quickly wore off and I went back to my Nokia flip phone until Google had developer G1s (ADP1) with a fancy backplate on them.
We also had multiple batteries and multiple beefy micro USB chargers (used later on our G1s) as well as external Nokia battery chargers around the place.
I think I managed to take a call once. I could never send SMS, but I would play a lot of numptyphysics on the MBTA with the combination ballpoint pen/mechanical pencil/stylus I bought.
Sean visited us in the office a couple of times beforehand. I remember showing him some of the HTML tricks Apple were doing for Mobile Safari with viewports and fullscreen things, I don't think anyone ever implemented them. This was pre-App Store too, I think.
I remember being so wary that someone would steal my awesome new phone at first, but that quickly wore off and I went back to my Nokia flip phone until Google had developer G1s (ADP1) with a fancy backplate on them.
I had a FreeRunner that I used as a daily phone for a few months (until I got a TMobile G1). It most certainly could make phone calls. IIRC, I used a Qt-based environment that was basically a PDA + a dialer. It even had a webkit-based browser. I remember buying a Nokia wall charger so I could charge a second (and third) battery given that the OpenMoko consumed batteries quickly.
My most memorable moment with the FreeRunner was when I finally received my G1. The screen on the G1 was so much brighter, the phone itself was far more responsive, and it had EDGE data service (my area didn't have 3G). I never bothered fixing the usb port that I broke because the G1 was so much better.
My most memorable moment with the FreeRunner was when I finally received my G1. The screen on the G1 was so much brighter, the phone itself was far more responsive, and it had EDGE data service (my area didn't have 3G). I never bothered fixing the usb port that I broke because the G1 was so much better.
> I remember buying a Nokia wall charger so I could charge a second (and third) battery given that the OpenMoko consumed batteries quickly.
If I recall correctly, the OpenMoko didn't have working CPU frequency management; it was always running at the maximum CPU frequency.
I actually wrote something to manage the CPU frequency for the GTA01, but never pushed it upstream; by then, the GTA01 was a dead end, and the GTA02 used IIRC a different chip.
Edit: for the curious, here's the code: http://repo.or.cz/linux-2.6/s3c2410-cpufreq.git/refs
If I recall correctly, the OpenMoko didn't have working CPU frequency management; it was always running at the maximum CPU frequency.
I actually wrote something to manage the CPU frequency for the GTA01, but never pushed it upstream; by then, the GTA01 was a dead end, and the GTA02 used IIRC a different chip.
Edit: for the curious, here's the code: http://repo.or.cz/linux-2.6/s3c2410-cpufreq.git/refs
I had issues making calls on my Freerunner, sure, and it certainly wasn't very user friendly (even flashing replicant to it resulted in a very buggy daily driver) but I did enjoy the phone for what it was; a fun platform to hack around with and one of the first (and perhaps almost the only?) mobile device with hackability not only in mind, but centric to its design.
I hope alternatives like the Neo900 make it off the ground, but I'm not holding my breath. Most people just don't seem to care about open hardware when they could be getting the latest, fastest SoC for their $varPhone. Maybe it makes me weird that I'd rather use an open device with a single ARM core at 800Mhz than a closed one that uses the Snapdragon 835...
I hope alternatives like the Neo900 make it off the ground, but I'm not holding my breath. Most people just don't seem to care about open hardware when they could be getting the latest, fastest SoC for their $varPhone. Maybe it makes me weird that I'd rather use an open device with a single ARM core at 800Mhz than a closed one that uses the Snapdragon 835...
Maybe it makes me weird that I'd rather use an open device with a single ARM core...
IMHO, it's neither a question of being weird nor about the power of the phone. The problem is that choosing an architecture that isn't mass produced, you are doomed to disappear no matter what.
I wouldn't care to use an underpowered phone, provided that it's cheap and widely available, being "cheap" an (important) part of "widely available". A hackable phone would generate interesting apps for a wide market. But you need that there are a lot of people that can buy it and has some problem accessing an Android and its apps.
IMHO, it's neither a question of being weird nor about the power of the phone. The problem is that choosing an architecture that isn't mass produced, you are doomed to disappear no matter what.
I wouldn't care to use an underpowered phone, provided that it's cheap and widely available, being "cheap" an (important) part of "widely available". A hackable phone would generate interesting apps for a wide market. But you need that there are a lot of people that can buy it and has some problem accessing an Android and its apps.
Somewhat related: I was a little interested in Firefox OS. When I tried to get a device I found that I should either be in a wait list for months, buy a "more or less compatible" phone (it might work or it might not) or get a ZTE (brand that I hadn't heard of until then) with lackluster features at a premium price, compared to a regular Samsung.
Being an early adopter is not for everyone, for sure. But being the only adopter is definitely a PITA :)
Being an early adopter is not for everyone, for sure. But being the only adopter is definitely a PITA :)
Not many people know this, but OpenMoko was largely rolled by Dash Navigation -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko#Dash_Express. This gave Sean and Co. the cash and ability to develop the OpenMoko, but unfortunately, Dash failed, because as a CNAV device, it was too little, too late as compared to the ultra-converged cell phone. I wish that they would have found other entities to back the project, but the market just wasn't there yet.