Ask HN: Entrepreneurship to escape depression?
31 comments
Have you considered volunteering instead? Volunteering will look great on your resume and it will give you skills that you can apply in your next job. Also it will help you expand your network which might be the main reason why you're not finding the opportunities you are seeking.
Entrepreneurship can be quite difficult, and it takes a really heavy emotional toll on people. If you consider yourself a person with depressive tendencies, I would consider dealing with those first before starting a company.
https://www.inc.com/magazine/201309/jessica-bruder/psycholog...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanwestwood/2016/01/08/psychol...
Entrepreneurship can be quite difficult, and it takes a really heavy emotional toll on people. If you consider yourself a person with depressive tendencies, I would consider dealing with those first before starting a company.
https://www.inc.com/magazine/201309/jessica-bruder/psycholog...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanwestwood/2016/01/08/psychol...
Entrepreneurship is not an easy road. It can be ultimately very fulfilling but being depressed is not the state to start it.
You have to hit upon an idea (note that, it need not be THE idea), take it to customers. If you get positive response, you go with it and build the core of your product and take it to customers again. Get their feedback, iterate. Spend more than 50% of your time marketing. If at anypoint you believe the product is not the success you estimated it to be, you will need to pivot. All of these are very hard decisions and grueling work. And you need to do it alone. You will also need several months of backup to see you through till you get your first sales.
Being your own master is the ultimate freedom. Before you go that path, take a vacation or meet friends to alleviate the depression. If that is not enough, see a professional.
If you do go the entrepreneurial route, these tips might help you.
1. Finding a compatible cofounder can help keep loneliness at bay and focus on what is truly important. Ideally they should complement your skill set.
2. Any product, big or small, should be decomposed into small chunks. Each chunk you finish should be releasable. i.e there should a concrete output at the end. That will give tangible feedback and keep your morale high.
3. Split chunks further into tasks that are very specific and unambiguous, and finishable in small period of time, say two hours or less. So every time you sit to work, you will know exactly you are going to do. Makes it easy to get into flow. Also, time tracking will give you the satisfaction that progress is made. A common pitfall is for founders to force themselves to work night and day to finish it at fast as possible, at the compromising health, sanity and relationships . Unfortunately this can lead to burnout.
4. Design is secondary. Domain names are secondary. The core product is all that matters. For my first product, i wasted so much time just coming up with that perfect name! Nope, does not matter.
5. Market, market, market. You need to learn how to take it in front of your customer. There is no escape from this part. And if you are not already familiar with it, that in itself is a big undertaking.
Wishing you the best.
You have to hit upon an idea (note that, it need not be THE idea), take it to customers. If you get positive response, you go with it and build the core of your product and take it to customers again. Get their feedback, iterate. Spend more than 50% of your time marketing. If at anypoint you believe the product is not the success you estimated it to be, you will need to pivot. All of these are very hard decisions and grueling work. And you need to do it alone. You will also need several months of backup to see you through till you get your first sales.
Being your own master is the ultimate freedom. Before you go that path, take a vacation or meet friends to alleviate the depression. If that is not enough, see a professional.
If you do go the entrepreneurial route, these tips might help you.
1. Finding a compatible cofounder can help keep loneliness at bay and focus on what is truly important. Ideally they should complement your skill set.
2. Any product, big or small, should be decomposed into small chunks. Each chunk you finish should be releasable. i.e there should a concrete output at the end. That will give tangible feedback and keep your morale high.
3. Split chunks further into tasks that are very specific and unambiguous, and finishable in small period of time, say two hours or less. So every time you sit to work, you will know exactly you are going to do. Makes it easy to get into flow. Also, time tracking will give you the satisfaction that progress is made. A common pitfall is for founders to force themselves to work night and day to finish it at fast as possible, at the compromising health, sanity and relationships . Unfortunately this can lead to burnout.
4. Design is secondary. Domain names are secondary. The core product is all that matters. For my first product, i wasted so much time just coming up with that perfect name! Nope, does not matter.
5. Market, market, market. You need to learn how to take it in front of your customer. There is no escape from this part. And if you are not already familiar with it, that in itself is a big undertaking.
Wishing you the best.
I think I have depression too and anxiety. A direct impact of my depression is that I can’t sleep. But unlike you, my depression is accumulated through work, knowing each day I die a little in my cubical and losing my time to become who I wanted myself to be. I actually want to quit my job to cure my depression.
Would a better job help? One that is aligned with your goals?
I doubt it, otherwise doctors would be prescribing becoming an entrepreneur as a solution to depression for millions of people. However, i'll tell you what entrepreneurship gives me. Even when I've been failing, even when the number of sign ups is not living up to expectations, being an entrepreneur makes me happier by giving me hope for a better future. Having a job, anywhere outside Silicon Valley perhaps, just doesn't pay enough, I've been a senior developer and I can't save any meaningful amount of income to escape constant working, I don't want luxury things, I just want the freedom to spend my time in a way that I want before I'm dead. Entrepreneurship makes me feel like anything is possible. However it's hard, and you may not generate any revenue for several years so often having a job while doing it on the side is necessary. I don't think it will help with depression unfortunately, but it can help provide hope.
Think of starting a startup as a long road trip where everything that can go wrong will go wrong.
Now imagine you have an emotional gas tank, and there's a really long distance between gas stations. If you start your journey out with your emotional gas tank near empty, you're probably not going to make it.
A startup will only amplify your depression, and when that happens you'll find yourself slowly pushing the rest of the way instead of driving.
Source: someone who went that route primarily out of having nothing to lose, almost five years ago.
Now imagine you have an emotional gas tank, and there's a really long distance between gas stations. If you start your journey out with your emotional gas tank near empty, you're probably not going to make it.
A startup will only amplify your depression, and when that happens you'll find yourself slowly pushing the rest of the way instead of driving.
Source: someone who went that route primarily out of having nothing to lose, almost five years ago.
I would try to get some cognitive behavioral therapy in if you can. An 8 week course may change your life. You have these automatic thoughts that aren’t you and are not true so CBT gives you the skills and tools to recognize them and deal with them. Journaling or writing down your thoughts can help as well.
Seconded, CBT is very good with this.
There should be free or discounted CBT therapy (with graduate students) available in your area.
There should be free or discounted CBT therapy (with graduate students) available in your area.
Yep, I would vote for CBT too. Exercise also works surprisingly well - especially if it gets you outside.
Taking on contract/consulting work is probably a bit easier to start out with compared to starting a full on company, and can give you the flexibility needed to work your own hours and from home while dealing with your mental health.
This may be hard to find in Switzerland though and you may need to resort to trying to find relatively low paying work on Upwork, at least to start. The fact that your English is decent should help find you a gig. You should also go in with the mindset that finding a gig is a numbers game, and you will not get the first gig you apply to, even with a perfect application.
Once your portfolio, experience, confidence, and health is built up, doors should start to open.
This may be hard to find in Switzerland though and you may need to resort to trying to find relatively low paying work on Upwork, at least to start. The fact that your English is decent should help find you a gig. You should also go in with the mindset that finding a gig is a numbers game, and you will not get the first gig you apply to, even with a perfect application.
Once your portfolio, experience, confidence, and health is built up, doors should start to open.
Entrepreneurship is for the insane. I think depression counts.
Depression can also be source of energy and it powers creativity. It's a double edged sword; it can either drive you forward or drag you back.
But don't expect it to cure your depression. The highs are high and the lows are very low. You still have things to lose - your reputation, bankruptcy, your employees' livelihood. And like an effective drug, you might actually be reliant on depression as a form of energy.
Also be careful as you can easily get trapped in a bad business, making too little revenue to grow but also invested too much to quit. This is much worse than being stuck driving for Uber.
It's also harder to pitch while depressed. Investors like optimism. So I would recommend something you can completely bootstrap.
I'd go for low hanging fruit that you can almost immediately cash in on. You can do ecommerce on a niche. SaaS is nice but it needs a lot of time to start. Avoid things like games which are difficult to monetize.
Inexperience isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, people tend to do better when they can't just quit for some high paying job. You will get stuck at some point, and it's usually people like you who push past the obstacles.
You can check out indiehackers.com for a broad range of stories.
Depression can also be source of energy and it powers creativity. It's a double edged sword; it can either drive you forward or drag you back.
But don't expect it to cure your depression. The highs are high and the lows are very low. You still have things to lose - your reputation, bankruptcy, your employees' livelihood. And like an effective drug, you might actually be reliant on depression as a form of energy.
Also be careful as you can easily get trapped in a bad business, making too little revenue to grow but also invested too much to quit. This is much worse than being stuck driving for Uber.
It's also harder to pitch while depressed. Investors like optimism. So I would recommend something you can completely bootstrap.
I'd go for low hanging fruit that you can almost immediately cash in on. You can do ecommerce on a niche. SaaS is nice but it needs a lot of time to start. Avoid things like games which are difficult to monetize.
Inexperience isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, people tend to do better when they can't just quit for some high paying job. You will get stuck at some point, and it's usually people like you who push past the obstacles.
You can check out indiehackers.com for a broad range of stories.
Literally “run away” from your problems. As in start running 5 miles a day if health permits.
No, only a different way to tackle the problem of having no money and depending on social security.
So says your depressed mindset! But, have you actually tried it? You might be surprised at the change in your mindset. With the more positive mindset that would result from running/exercise, then good things may well happen. (Saying this as someone who has been there, done that, bought the t-shirt). I would also look into CBT/professional help.
Job interview is all about an impression. You can tweak that impression.
Wear bright clothes, white or light blue. Avoid dark colors. Wear some glasses even if you see perfectly. It makes you look more friendly and competent. Be like an actor. Smile and practice. Remember; It's not personal, it's a show.
With respect to options, have you tried applying for jobs in western Europe? You can legally work in any EU country.
Starting a company is like climbing a mountain. Doing that while depressed, without financial runway and in the most expensive country is not a good start.
You could do something very different. You could go to south east Asia, teach English to survive while starting a company on the side. Cost of living is very cheap, nice weather too. As a westerner you can also easily get a girlfriend there. All nice things, but the real reason is financial runway of course.
Wear bright clothes, white or light blue. Avoid dark colors. Wear some glasses even if you see perfectly. It makes you look more friendly and competent. Be like an actor. Smile and practice. Remember; It's not personal, it's a show.
With respect to options, have you tried applying for jobs in western Europe? You can legally work in any EU country.
Starting a company is like climbing a mountain. Doing that while depressed, without financial runway and in the most expensive country is not a good start.
You could do something very different. You could go to south east Asia, teach English to survive while starting a company on the side. Cost of living is very cheap, nice weather too. As a westerner you can also easily get a girlfriend there. All nice things, but the real reason is financial runway of course.
I have serious health problems that make a regular job not work for me. I asked around and Patrick McKenzie suggested a writing service to work for and that has worked well for me. I also blog about my experiences with that and how to make that work. I am slowly branching out into other related things, such as resume editing. My income is gradually going up.
You can also blog, comic, create an Etsy shop, try to make money online with things like Zazzle, etc. I would shoot for getting some money coming in, then trying to improve on it. Google for examples of people who did something vaguely similar and read their stories.
I still don't make very much money, but I make more than I used to and it pays better than not being able to work at all. And, yes, that fact does a lot for my mental health.
You can also blog, comic, create an Etsy shop, try to make money online with things like Zazzle, etc. I would shoot for getting some money coming in, then trying to improve on it. Google for examples of people who did something vaguely similar and read their stories.
I still don't make very much money, but I make more than I used to and it pays better than not being able to work at all. And, yes, that fact does a lot for my mental health.
As a depressed person that’s about 5 years into a reasonably successful startup, I would say no, entrepreneurship is not a silver bullet. It sounds like you, as do I, tend to take things personally. You might feel that every minor failing of your business reflects on you as a person, and I can tell you that it can be crippling.
That’s not at all to say that running a business can never be rewarding - it often is! - but I do not think that it is a good surrogate for talking to someone, whether that’s a therapist or even a loved one. You are more than the sum of your faults and I find nothing to be more helpful than periodic reminders of that fact.
That’s not at all to say that running a business can never be rewarding - it often is! - but I do not think that it is a good surrogate for talking to someone, whether that’s a therapist or even a loved one. You are more than the sum of your faults and I find nothing to be more helpful than periodic reminders of that fact.
First off take a listen to Sherry Walling's podcast, it's made for you.
ZenFounder.com
I'll also recommend her husband Rob's podcast as well.
StartUpsForTheRestOfUs.com
I would recommend starting with episode 1 for both.
You can follow Rob along over the years from drop shipping beach towels through .net invoice and hittail to drip with a $XXM exit. Inspiring.
What type of skills/business are you thinking about?
Starting your own thing is hard, not sure I'd recommend it if you are feeling depressed.
You might want to take a job outside your skill set, even part time to get back in the game. Do something interesting you've always wanted to try. If it's part time you could do contract work the remaining time if that's a possibility.
Take a look at your resume are you providing too much information or maybe not showing something that was keeping you busy in your gap areas. Maybe review your resume with someone to make sure you're presenting things honestly but in a better light. You might be too hard on yourself.
Good luck getting on track and getting your own thing going.
Feel free to email me at my HN username at gmail. I can provide some guidance if you're a developer.
ZenFounder.com
I'll also recommend her husband Rob's podcast as well.
StartUpsForTheRestOfUs.com
I would recommend starting with episode 1 for both.
You can follow Rob along over the years from drop shipping beach towels through .net invoice and hittail to drip with a $XXM exit. Inspiring.
What type of skills/business are you thinking about?
Starting your own thing is hard, not sure I'd recommend it if you are feeling depressed.
You might want to take a job outside your skill set, even part time to get back in the game. Do something interesting you've always wanted to try. If it's part time you could do contract work the remaining time if that's a possibility.
Take a look at your resume are you providing too much information or maybe not showing something that was keeping you busy in your gap areas. Maybe review your resume with someone to make sure you're presenting things honestly but in a better light. You might be too hard on yourself.
Good luck getting on track and getting your own thing going.
Feel free to email me at my HN username at gmail. I can provide some guidance if you're a developer.
There are no guarantees in life, but if I am you, I'll forget about startups and focus on a way to earn my FU money. This will give you the ultimate freedom and cure your depression.
One idea to get you thinking is the stock market. You don't need money to start, just time and looks like you have plenty... Find some data and start building and testing trading strategies and ideas and who knows, maybe you'll find your edge and once you do, you'll have a proof to convince friends/relatives, your doctor, dentist, accountant, banker, etc to invest in you... Believe me, this is the perfect business and it is truly location independent...
Well if you need to raise, then it's not that different from applying for a job. You won't be making a salary for quite a while either. Whatever you end up working on might often feel like a disaster.
Maybe you can get a free psychiatrist in Swiss? And if money isn't a problem perhaps you could think of a broader range of things to do? A very low paying job at a startup? Volunteer work? Research work? No work? Helping family? Getting married? So many things you could do!
Good luck!
Maybe you can get a free psychiatrist in Swiss? And if money isn't a problem perhaps you could think of a broader range of things to do? A very low paying job at a startup? Volunteer work? Research work? No work? Helping family? Getting married? So many things you could do!
Good luck!
Hello, I was in a similar situation 10 years ago. Wanna talk with me? [email protected]
I may not believe in depression, but I'm trying to do this in response to having a hard time in life (issues with well-paid employment and belonging) while severely autistic/Asperger's.
It isn't helping much for finding a place in the world, but the activity this is generating is making me much happier. I have realised how powerful I am. I am actually pretty awesome to be doing the things that I'm doing. That feels good!
Not much luck with earning money though. I'm fine with it, my part-time job provides for me well enough. If money is an issue, you may want to first try to get some financial stability before you take a leap into creating something of your own.
EDIT: Post an anonymized resume here. Can't hurt. Worst case scenario you'll get some feedback.
It isn't helping much for finding a place in the world, but the activity this is generating is making me much happier. I have realised how powerful I am. I am actually pretty awesome to be doing the things that I'm doing. That feels good!
Not much luck with earning money though. I'm fine with it, my part-time job provides for me well enough. If money is an issue, you may want to first try to get some financial stability before you take a leap into creating something of your own.
EDIT: Post an anonymized resume here. Can't hurt. Worst case scenario you'll get some feedback.
My resume isn't in English, so posting it wouldn't be helpful. I guess the main problem of my resume is the long time, years, of unemployment, combined with not much work experience.
What did you do while unemployed? Even if it doesn't seem directly related to what you want to do, you never know what will peak the hiring managers interest
Where are you located?
Switzerland
Mail me your resume to the email in my HN handle. I am a tech recruiter located in Zurich and might be able to help.
cheers
cheers
Depressed? Try microdosing shrooms. Might even help get your startup ideas off the ground.
Have you pinpointed a specific problem that you have at interviews?
No, as I have not been invited to any interviews so far. In the past I have been judged as reserved and quiet, which I guess could be a problem at interviews.
imho the best help itt: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15741151
I'm stuck in a vicious circle: because of my depression I don't find a job, and not finding a job feeds my depression. And after having applied to countless jobs without luck, I guess my chances are very low to get out of it following this path, despite a strong local economy.
So I think the only path that remains is to start something on my own, even though I am a complete newbie. But I have nothing to lose as I already lost (almost) everything. Are there any such resources specific for people with depression, or success stories? Any other thoughts?
Thank you.