Google Is Eating Apple's Ecosystem for Lunch(char.gd)
char.gd
Google Is Eating Apple's Ecosystem for Lunch
https://char.gd/blog/2018/google-is-eating-apples-ecosystem-for-lunch
52 comments
I don't see facebook surviving long term, they have close to no hardware presence (with the exception of oculus) and all their products are constantly challenged in one way or another. Very few people I know actually use facebook and even WhatsApp adoption is pretty low and inconsistent. In other words none of their products are essential or irreplaceable the way Google and Apple products are to some people.
Very few people I know actually use facebook and even WhatsApp adoption is pretty low and inconsistent.
If very people you know use Facebook and Facebook has over 210 million users in the United States (https://www.statista.com/statistics/398136/us-facebook-user-...) isn't that the definition of "anecdote is not data"?
If you look at the daily usage numbers of Facebook and Instagram, the data doesn't support your conclusion.
If Apple one day said they weren't going to allow Facebook on their phone, who do you think it would hurt more - Facebook or Apple (ignoring the fact that the FB experience is a lot better in the browser.)
If very people you know use Facebook and Facebook has over 210 million users in the United States (https://www.statista.com/statistics/398136/us-facebook-user-...) isn't that the definition of "anecdote is not data"?
If you look at the daily usage numbers of Facebook and Instagram, the data doesn't support your conclusion.
If Apple one day said they weren't going to allow Facebook on their phone, who do you think it would hurt more - Facebook or Apple (ignoring the fact that the FB experience is a lot better in the browser.)
This horrifies me!
Can't think of anything I would want less than one of the big 5 US companies spying on me everywhere all the time.
Can't think of anything I would want less than one of the big 5 US companies spying on me everywhere all the time.
What about headcrabs attaching to your face?
Had to Google that since I don't play games.;)
[deleted]
I've watched network traffic from ghome for over a year now. It is not even remotely "always on". It's running updates and pushing voice to commands.
This seems like quite a distorted definition of spying. Is Hacker News spying on you by keeping access logs of site usage? That doesn't seem like a fair characterization either.
This seems like quite a distorted definition of spying. Is Hacker News spying on you by keeping access logs of site usage? That doesn't seem like a fair characterization either.
What can I say I don't trust Google. No walled gardens for me.
So, the article is about Apple and a very fair comparison is that Google is a more open and less locked in ecosystem than either Apple or Amazon.
So... I'm not sure what your point is.
If it's that you hate corporate products then... what exactly are you accessing this website on? An Amiga?
So... I'm not sure what your point is.
If it's that you hate corporate products then... what exactly are you accessing this website on? An Amiga?
My point if it wasn't clear, which I thought it was, was that the article horrifies me.
Accessing this site? Linux laptop running tor browser what else?
Accessing this site? Linux laptop running tor browser what else?
So, a corporate browser using technology funded by corporate excess and State research efforts. Oh, and it's actually proven to be only a mediocre baffle on security when attacked at scale.
You rebel, you.
My dude, privacy is dead and we killed it. There is no hiding anymore, short of bombing us back to the victorian era.
You rebel, you.
My dude, privacy is dead and we killed it. There is no hiding anymore, short of bombing us back to the victorian era.
That's a pathetic ad hominem strategy.
Your point is that there is no privacy so why bother, similar to the arguement that if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about.
Sorry but, my dude, google, amazon, microsoft, apple, etc al, don't and won't get my business however much you think I'm wasting my time.
Your point is that there is no privacy so why bother, similar to the arguement that if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to worry about.
Sorry but, my dude, google, amazon, microsoft, apple, etc al, don't and won't get my business however much you think I'm wasting my time.
> Sorry but, my dude, google, amazon, microsoft, apple, etc al, don't and won't get my business however much you think I'm wasting my time.
Amazon and Google fund Linux a lot, and many of the products we use and support give money to Amazon and Google for hosting.
So no, I don't believe what you're saying. If you do, either you're incredibly careful or you're willfully misinformed.
But on topic, data leaks from using digital services is a result of physics, not avarice. While we might try to offer guidance and punish wrongdoers, demands for digital privacy are a fool's errand. You might as well demand blood from a stone. And if anyone thought it was worth anything, they'd just start mining data and reselling it out of the channels you DO use.
For example, nothing really stops this website forum from selling your IP and browsing habits and even a recognizer for your unique style of writing, other than ethics and economics.
Your solution is to turn off the computer and flee, or find ways to work within the new framework and make it so that governments and citizens, good or bad, private or public, everyone has access to the same information and information processing capability.
Amazon and Google fund Linux a lot, and many of the products we use and support give money to Amazon and Google for hosting.
So no, I don't believe what you're saying. If you do, either you're incredibly careful or you're willfully misinformed.
But on topic, data leaks from using digital services is a result of physics, not avarice. While we might try to offer guidance and punish wrongdoers, demands for digital privacy are a fool's errand. You might as well demand blood from a stone. And if anyone thought it was worth anything, they'd just start mining data and reselling it out of the channels you DO use.
For example, nothing really stops this website forum from selling your IP and browsing habits and even a recognizer for your unique style of writing, other than ethics and economics.
Your solution is to turn off the computer and flee, or find ways to work within the new framework and make it so that governments and citizens, good or bad, private or public, everyone has access to the same information and information processing capability.
> Amazon and Google fund Linux a lot, and many of the products we use and support give money to Amazon and Google for hosting.
> So no, I don't believe what you're saying. If you do, either you're incredibly careful or you're willfully misinformed.
You don't have to believe anything, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Even if it was possible you've made up your mind and now with your lofty ideals are doing what any zealot does; that is try and browbeat anyone who doesn't agree with you into submission.
How Linux is funded has nothing to do with the issue and is besides the point, more of a straw-man argument as is who pays Amazon and Google; I don't.
> But on topic, data leaks from using digital services is a result of physics, not avarice. While we might try to offer guidance and punish wrongdoers, demands for digital privacy are a fool's errand. You might as well demand blood from a stone. And if anyone thought it was worth anything, they'd just start mining data and reselling it out of the channels you DO use.
Physics? I'd have to take you at your word I'm more included to think incompetence.
Let them do that, as far as I'm concerned this is again besides the point, not my data, only those who sign up to this sort of thing are at risk. If digital privacy is a fools errand then excuse me I need to finish my errand, look this stone I have is bleeding!
> For example, nothing really stops this website forum from selling your IP and browsing habits and even a recognizer for your unique style of writing, other than ethics and economics.
Other than this website not having my actual IP address or browsing habits seeing as I only login to comment; not to mention this account is useless to them seeing as it will be abandoned soon, like all my previous accounts. Actually one of the reasons I like this website so much.
> Your solution is to turn off the computer and flee, or find ways to work within the new framework and make it so that governments and citizens, good or bad, private or public, everyone has access to the same information and information processing capability.
I really have no idea what you are talking about. I have access to the same information as you (provided it's freely available and not in the walled gardens of facebook, google, twitter, etc al). I am clearly not about to turn my computer off and flee... I'm still here, for now.
> So no, I don't believe what you're saying. If you do, either you're incredibly careful or you're willfully misinformed.
You don't have to believe anything, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Even if it was possible you've made up your mind and now with your lofty ideals are doing what any zealot does; that is try and browbeat anyone who doesn't agree with you into submission.
How Linux is funded has nothing to do with the issue and is besides the point, more of a straw-man argument as is who pays Amazon and Google; I don't.
> But on topic, data leaks from using digital services is a result of physics, not avarice. While we might try to offer guidance and punish wrongdoers, demands for digital privacy are a fool's errand. You might as well demand blood from a stone. And if anyone thought it was worth anything, they'd just start mining data and reselling it out of the channels you DO use.
Physics? I'd have to take you at your word I'm more included to think incompetence.
Let them do that, as far as I'm concerned this is again besides the point, not my data, only those who sign up to this sort of thing are at risk. If digital privacy is a fools errand then excuse me I need to finish my errand, look this stone I have is bleeding!
> For example, nothing really stops this website forum from selling your IP and browsing habits and even a recognizer for your unique style of writing, other than ethics and economics.
Other than this website not having my actual IP address or browsing habits seeing as I only login to comment; not to mention this account is useless to them seeing as it will be abandoned soon, like all my previous accounts. Actually one of the reasons I like this website so much.
> Your solution is to turn off the computer and flee, or find ways to work within the new framework and make it so that governments and citizens, good or bad, private or public, everyone has access to the same information and information processing capability.
I really have no idea what you are talking about. I have access to the same information as you (provided it's freely available and not in the walled gardens of facebook, google, twitter, etc al). I am clearly not about to turn my computer off and flee... I'm still here, for now.
I clicked "flag" because this strikes me exactly as an unmarked advertisement.
I agree, this feels and reads like an ad. Also, the word "Amazon" appears zero times and this is an article about voice assistants.
I vouched because I don't think it's a paid ad, and I have similar feelings about Google home after using one and watching its network traffic for awhile.
All of my devices are Apple devices. A crappy Dell laptop and my disasstifaction with Windows led me to switch to Apple 12 years ago. I loved the Mac operating system and that momentum got me to buy iPads and their phones. I use Apple Music. I use iDrive.
I don’t use Siri. Apple Maps sucks and as a result I don’t use CarPlay. Apple Music search sucks. There’s a bunch of thing now in Apple’s ecosystem that don’t “just work”. More and more I find myself telling my wife that Apple is slipping. Privacy concerns are the only thing keeping off of Google’s system but it won’t be long before the hostile nature of Apples system forces me to abandon ship.
I think Apple ought to spend a year concentrating on fixing the increasing number of annoyances and stop doing stupid things like keeping Google maps off Car Play. What’s the point of adding features that don’t “just work”?
I don’t use Siri. Apple Maps sucks and as a result I don’t use CarPlay. Apple Music search sucks. There’s a bunch of thing now in Apple’s ecosystem that don’t “just work”. More and more I find myself telling my wife that Apple is slipping. Privacy concerns are the only thing keeping off of Google’s system but it won’t be long before the hostile nature of Apples system forces me to abandon ship.
I think Apple ought to spend a year concentrating on fixing the increasing number of annoyances and stop doing stupid things like keeping Google maps off Car Play. What’s the point of adding features that don’t “just work”?
I’m in the same boat, and resolved never to buy a new iPhone again since from a consumer perspective I believe the premium cost is unjustified. I bought my most recent iPhone on Swappa but I’m getting closer to the point where I leave Apple altogether.
Last week I had to connect my iPhone to my computer (despite wireless sync being enabled), use iTunes to copy audiobook files to my phone, and then for some reason I can only access them in the iBooks app on the phone, despite them not being available in the app of the same name on my Mac. It reminded me of Bill Gates’ famous MovieMaker rant.
One more thing...if I want to watch video files on my iOS device, why do I need to use an obscure app called TV? Would it make sense if I had to use an app called Radio to listen to audio files?
Last week I had to connect my iPhone to my computer (despite wireless sync being enabled), use iTunes to copy audiobook files to my phone, and then for some reason I can only access them in the iBooks app on the phone, despite them not being available in the app of the same name on my Mac. It reminded me of Bill Gates’ famous MovieMaker rant.
One more thing...if I want to watch video files on my iOS device, why do I need to use an obscure app called TV? Would it make sense if I had to use an app called Radio to listen to audio files?
There are tons of simple ways to get those files into any video or book reader you want. Using iTunes you could have loaded them into the app if your choice as well. Granted it would be nice if iTunes had defaults for which apps what files went to, but this is entirely eliminated using the files app, airdrop, cloud services etc.
You don’t have to use TV. You can use each channel’s first party app. But if you use a variety of them, TV rolls that up into a TiVo like “Up Next” and searchable Library for discovery.
I'm in a similar boat, even down to when/why I switched. I have an Apple Watch, MBP, and iPhone, and am mostly happy with them. I also have a google home and a bunch of chromecasts. Siri just doesn't seem to work as well, while home is constantly improving.
Software wise, Inbox is better than Mail.app, Google maps are better, Google calendar is better, Google photos are better, etc...
Software wise, Inbox is better than Mail.app, Google maps are better, Google calendar is better, Google photos are better, etc...
I was offered an iPad mini in 2012, decided to buy a MacBook Pro in 2013 and it ultimately led me to buy an iPhone a bit later and eventually an Apple Watch. I was very contented with it all.
It's 2018 and my iPhone is sluggish as hell. My Mac is really slow too, and I definitely believe that the price of those devices is really too high for the time they last. I couldn't resolve to get back to the big G, because I really care about my privacy.
After some research, I rented a VPS (2vCPU, 4GB RAM, 2TB disk for 11€/month) and installed a Nextcloud instance on it to backup my files and photos mostly. I got back my old Nexus 5 and installed LineageOS without Google Apps nor MicroG (all I have installed on it comes from F-Droid, which rebuilds from source and signs the apk).
I can tell I'm much more satisfied with this set-up. I have to use an iPhone 6 at work, and it feels really silly that an older Nexus 5 is lightning fast compared to my iPhone 6. The latter keeps hanging and freezing all the time. Even simple tasks as text messaging or email consultation is a pain.
It's 2018 and my iPhone is sluggish as hell. My Mac is really slow too, and I definitely believe that the price of those devices is really too high for the time they last. I couldn't resolve to get back to the big G, because I really care about my privacy.
After some research, I rented a VPS (2vCPU, 4GB RAM, 2TB disk for 11€/month) and installed a Nextcloud instance on it to backup my files and photos mostly. I got back my old Nexus 5 and installed LineageOS without Google Apps nor MicroG (all I have installed on it comes from F-Droid, which rebuilds from source and signs the apk).
I can tell I'm much more satisfied with this set-up. I have to use an iPhone 6 at work, and it feels really silly that an older Nexus 5 is lightning fast compared to my iPhone 6. The latter keeps hanging and freezing all the time. Even simple tasks as text messaging or email consultation is a pain.
Why is Apple trusted here but Google isn't?
Google photos is one of the most amazing and useful apps I’ve ever used. Being able to search on the contents of a photo is the first real 21st app that I’ve run across, in my opinion.
However I’ll never move to Android. I’ve tried it and it just isn’t as good as iOS. I’m not saying iOS is great but it’s ceetainly better in my opinion.
Things like FaceTime are very easy for my parents and relatives to understand vs something like Skype or google hangouts. Photostream sharing is also a very easy and intuitive way for me to share pics of the kids with my relatives as well.
The biggest thing for me, though, was the fact that iMessage and iPhone was uncrackable by the fbi. It’s a very public fight they had to keep our data secure.
However I’ll never move to Android. I’ve tried it and it just isn’t as good as iOS. I’m not saying iOS is great but it’s ceetainly better in my opinion.
Things like FaceTime are very easy for my parents and relatives to understand vs something like Skype or google hangouts. Photostream sharing is also a very easy and intuitive way for me to share pics of the kids with my relatives as well.
The biggest thing for me, though, was the fact that iMessage and iPhone was uncrackable by the fbi. It’s a very public fight they had to keep our data secure.
An interesting take on Google vs Apple. I would have loved to hear at least something about Alexa. I’m a hardcore Apple and Amazon user (plenty of Google too). I see myself staying imperfectly hybrid for awhile.
(Edit:) the observation of post-screen being a way to be connected but not distracted was a real revelation. Would love that....
Amazon’s Echo is far ahead of Google Home in sales. They’re trying to get voice in everything. Many companies were showing off Alexa built into their products at CES.
Voice as a user interface is almost here:
https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/voice-as-a-user-inte...
How long before a significant amount of search is simply asking some device a question and being told the answer?
Voice as a user interface is almost here:
https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/voice-as-a-user-inte...
How long before a significant amount of search is simply asking some device a question and being told the answer?
> How long before a significant amount of search is simply asking some device a question and being told the answer?
Probably never. People read way faster than listen and in a productivity obsessed world this matters a lot. People also don't want others to hear what they are searching for. And these things are part of human nature, not something to get used to.
I can see people doing voice-typing on mobile when they are in private, because mobile is super awkward to type on. But that's about it.
Probably never. People read way faster than listen and in a productivity obsessed world this matters a lot. People also don't want others to hear what they are searching for. And these things are part of human nature, not something to get used to.
I can see people doing voice-typing on mobile when they are in private, because mobile is super awkward to type on. But that's about it.
It's already 20% and that stat is nearly a year old
https://searchengineland.com/google-reveals-20-percent-queri...
https://searchengineland.com/google-reveals-20-percent-queri...
Is Alexa launched for non US? European market is pretty big and needs support for non English languages (Google home is already launched in a bunch of European countries).
Similar to Apple with the iPhone, Amazon dominance on voice interfaces might end up being only true for the US market.
Similar to Apple with the iPhone, Amazon dominance on voice interfaces might end up being only true for the US market.
Apple iPhone does really well in Asia. Not sure where you think dominance is only true for the USA.
It's a strange world, because in terms of functionality the echo is a toy compared to Home.
Well, we all know that the google services are pretty convenient, but the problem is much less their functionality as the things 'you have to do' in order to use them, like:
- load all your images on their servers
- load all your documents on their servers
- load all your mails on their servers
- load all your contacts on their servers
- load all your appointments on their servers
- load all your...
That way it is completely non-transparent what they are doing with your data. I mean for every app on our smartphone we have a detailed list of permissions, but for google its just 'take it all'?!?
- load all your images on their servers
- load all your documents on their servers
- load all your mails on their servers
- load all your contacts on their servers
- load all your appointments on their servers
- load all your...
That way it is completely non-transparent what they are doing with your data. I mean for every app on our smartphone we have a detailed list of permissions, but for google its just 'take it all'?!?
There are detailed user agreements for photos, drive and calendar that are comparable to other services, and agencies salivating at the thought of winning a class action privacy lawsuit. Google has to be pretty careful, because all it takes is one whistleblower and even Donald Trump won't be able to evict them from the global news cycle.
And it's not like Apple's any different here, or like it's realistic to try and do these sorts of things from local resources.
I've been working on moving a lot of my data and services off the cloud and it's very hard even if you know what you're doing. You need to be able to build a home lab, have some solution for connectivity to your home (most people have never heard of ngrok, dyndns simply doesn't work well for many use cases), and spend lots of money on storage. This isn't like renting more expensive cloud computing services, the cost is below $25USD a month.
And it's not like Apple's any different here, or like it's realistic to try and do these sorts of things from local resources.
I've been working on moving a lot of my data and services off the cloud and it's very hard even if you know what you're doing. You need to be able to build a home lab, have some solution for connectivity to your home (most people have never heard of ngrok, dyndns simply doesn't work well for many use cases), and spend lots of money on storage. This isn't like renting more expensive cloud computing services, the cost is below $25USD a month.
Yeah, my “workflow” when I get in the car:
1: “hey Siri, open google” -> opens google app
2: “ok google, navigate to [name of destination] -> opens it in google maps...
1: “hey Siri, open google” -> opens google app
2: “ok google, navigate to [name of destination] -> opens it in google maps...
I don't disagree that technically that Google is better at this kind of stuff than Apple, but "millions" of devices is vague. Google doesn't release numbers. How many has it sold?
Everything he says is technically possible, but how many people are both technical enough to set this stuff up and care enough to even bother? I know people who have smart speakers, but most of them just use them for music.
Everything he says is technically possible, but how many people are both technical enough to set this stuff up and care enough to even bother? I know people who have smart speakers, but most of them just use them for music.
Almost all of the magical things described are exactly why I will never own one of these. Google makes money off of knowing everything about you. Orwell's "1984" is a bit ridiculous, but with respect to technology, we are almost there. At least Apple still makes money off of selling things, I think there is at least a better chance of privacy with them.
Can I buy into the google software ecosystem + Google Home without trading in my MBP/iPhone/iPad for a Chromebook/Pixel/Nexus?
You can use the search engine, Gmail, YouTube, Youtube TV, Google Maps, Google Chrome and Google Analytics all on an iPhone or Mac.
Yes, all the core Google services are available on Apple devices (search, inbox, photos, drive, maps, chat, chrome...)
Seems like the wrong question, at least with respect to your MBP.
I want to know if we can get compelling competition to macOS & MBP? Use that platform as a trojan horse to win over developers.
I want to know if we can get compelling competition to macOS & MBP? Use that platform as a trojan horse to win over developers.
Yes, it's basically what I have. I'm not a fan of the Chromebook/Pixel hardware, but a lot of Google software is much better than Apple.
Sure. Just replace one by one them when the time comes.
[deleted]
Here we go again...
Ok a couple of quick quotes:
"I say 'OK Google, goodbye when I leave the house to turn off the lights" k. I just turn off the lights. Why do I need a Google Home to do that? Why can't I do that with Homekit or Echo?
" grew frustrated by Apple's terrible iCloud pricing, and how seemingly great Google Photos appeared to be"
iCloud's pricing isn't terrible, it's just fine. They don't mine my photos and data, and I pay $2.99/month for 200gb. Some people don't understand that "free" photo storage isn't actually free.
"First, Google Assistant alongside Google Home is wild. When you own a Pixel, saying OK Google at home activates your speakers and your phone"
yawn
"Apple's direction, for better or for worse, is to lock you into a single track and make it agonizing to use anything but the official services"
Really?
Look, I think the Pixel 2 is a great phone and Google has some great products, even if I disagree with their business practices, but this article is over-the-top bad.
Ok a couple of quick quotes:
"I say 'OK Google, goodbye when I leave the house to turn off the lights" k. I just turn off the lights. Why do I need a Google Home to do that? Why can't I do that with Homekit or Echo?
" grew frustrated by Apple's terrible iCloud pricing, and how seemingly great Google Photos appeared to be"
iCloud's pricing isn't terrible, it's just fine. They don't mine my photos and data, and I pay $2.99/month for 200gb. Some people don't understand that "free" photo storage isn't actually free.
"First, Google Assistant alongside Google Home is wild. When you own a Pixel, saying OK Google at home activates your speakers and your phone"
yawn
"Apple's direction, for better or for worse, is to lock you into a single track and make it agonizing to use anything but the official services"
Really?
Look, I think the Pixel 2 is a great phone and Google has some great products, even if I disagree with their business practices, but this article is over-the-top bad.
Has anyone here tried using Purism? They're claiming that they provide 'high-quality privacy, security, and freedom focused computers and software.' They have their own OS and software. I'm tempted to buy one of their laptops and put on an order for their upcoming mobile phone. Does anyone have any experience with this company and its products? Do you lose a lot when you move from the evil 5?
https://puri.sm/
https://puri.sm/
Your comment has nothing to do with Google, Apple, ecosystems, lunch, or assistants. It's difficult to interpret it as anything but spam or trolling.
How is that related to the topic in any way?
It looks like they changed their ecosystem to use Google Products because they have more feature that they want. All of these decisions are valid. To be honest the biggest issue with Google is the support and longevity of the software that they create. On Apple it seems like they are slowly moving to more of a service oriented platform and are attempting to overhaul it but at the cost of their Prosumers.
I really hope that eventually in the "post screen era" that we don't have to buy devices that are owned by one company.