New York Will Never Be Silicon Valley. And It's Good with That(bloomberg.com)
bloomberg.com
New York Will Never Be Silicon Valley. And It's Good with That
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-27/new-york-will-never-be-silicon-valley-and-it-s-good-with-that
82 comments
I have lived both places (SF in the dotcom period) and now live in New York.
I love SV for many things and there are many great people there, but at the end of the day, New York is my city because its more human, honest, candid and less tribal.
I love SV for many things and there are many great people there, but at the end of the day, New York is my city because its more human, honest, candid and less tribal.
clickbait filler "news/journalism" like this just irritate me so much.
Firstly, who said we want to be silicon valley? Secondly, who are these two journalists that gives them the authority to say what ny is good or not good with? What the hell do they know about anything? Thirdly, they comparing a major city to what amounts to a business district. Maybe if they compared district ( garment, finance ) to silicon valley, there might be a point to this article.
It's such a non-story turned into one just because they need to publish rubbish everyday.
Firstly, who said we want to be silicon valley? Secondly, who are these two journalists that gives them the authority to say what ny is good or not good with? What the hell do they know about anything? Thirdly, they comparing a major city to what amounts to a business district. Maybe if they compared district ( garment, finance ) to silicon valley, there might be a point to this article.
It's such a non-story turned into one just because they need to publish rubbish everyday.
Is it not amazing that both areas, cannot solve problems such as homelessness and traffic/congestion.
Really makes you think why some people go into these fields.($$$, not all but some)
It is ironic because with all the money they make, they cannot afford to live in the cities that they work.(http://www.businessinsider.com/silicon-valley-unaffordable-e...
If only the government could match private sector wages. I think a lot of people would be way more interested in the public good then!
Really makes you think why some people go into these fields.($$$, not all but some)
It is ironic because with all the money they make, they cannot afford to live in the cities that they work.(http://www.businessinsider.com/silicon-valley-unaffordable-e...
If only the government could match private sector wages. I think a lot of people would be way more interested in the public good then!
Because there's available women in NYC.
in other news; oranges aren't apples. and oranges are good with that.
Low hanging fruit, but shouldn't it be the apple being okay with that?
/Recent parent practicing dad humor
/Recent parent practicing dad humor
nyc is the big apple. i was turning the headline around to humorously point out the converse
(:
The Big Apple to small oranges.
yeah I'm ok with not being SV.
Oh how sad. How will we New Yorkers live without the lack of public transportation, NIMBYism gone insane, the complete opposition to building more than 1 housing unit on 15,000 square feet of land and no housing options for lower and middle income workers within 2 hours of where they work?
We’re catching up on the public-transport front!
http://uk.businessinsider.com/public-transit-ranking-cities-...
http://uk.businessinsider.com/public-transit-ranking-cities-...
The BART stops at midnight either way, reliability be damned.
Well, to be honest, the MTA is kind of shit. We'll see what Andy Byford can do to elevate it from third world squalor to something functional.
> the MTA is kind of shit
The organization, sure. However, the transportation complaints seem to be more of a publicity stunt than anything^. I've lived in NY for 30+ years, NYC for 10 of that. Excluding a few subsections, public transportation as a whole has barely changed in my 15 years of using it (regarding the numbers, part of my time I did as a commuter from the 'burbs).
^ In regards to taxes. A summary of my comments the last time this came up:
NYC residents pay a ton in taxes and get little back. Our state taxes get moved upstate and our federal taxes go to poor states. I really think it's just trying to put pressure on our representatives to be a bit more "selfish" as to what happens with our taxes.
Both the MTA and Metro North are owned by the state. One of them has 300k daily riders, the other has 5.5m daily riders. 150k of those MN riders end up in the city everyday, so both groups are using state owned products, one group is potentially using BOTH (I always did when I commuted from Westchester to the financial district). The 4 commuter lines combined (NJTransit, PATH, LIRR, Metro North) have 1/3 the total daily ridership of the subway, but get almost double the amount of subsidies from state coffers.
The organization, sure. However, the transportation complaints seem to be more of a publicity stunt than anything^. I've lived in NY for 30+ years, NYC for 10 of that. Excluding a few subsections, public transportation as a whole has barely changed in my 15 years of using it (regarding the numbers, part of my time I did as a commuter from the 'burbs).
^ In regards to taxes. A summary of my comments the last time this came up:
NYC residents pay a ton in taxes and get little back. Our state taxes get moved upstate and our federal taxes go to poor states. I really think it's just trying to put pressure on our representatives to be a bit more "selfish" as to what happens with our taxes.
Both the MTA and Metro North are owned by the state. One of them has 300k daily riders, the other has 5.5m daily riders. 150k of those MN riders end up in the city everyday, so both groups are using state owned products, one group is potentially using BOTH (I always did when I commuted from Westchester to the financial district). The 4 commuter lines combined (NJTransit, PATH, LIRR, Metro North) have 1/3 the total daily ridership of the subway, but get almost double the amount of subsidies from state coffers.
Right because MTA isn't an old broken down mess (I read too many articles about this and I don't even live near NYC)
That's just because we have high expectations. Having lived in both the Bay Area and NYC, in NYC we generally expect the MTA to work reliably, frequently, and 24/7, because it usually does. In the Bay Area I had no such expectations: I knew there were trips I just couldn't make by transit in a reasonable fashion, and other trips that I couldn't make quickly. So when the transit systems failed to deliver, I wasn't actually disappointed.
For instance, my current commute from voice lessons in the Upper West Side to my apartment in Brooklyn (about 9 miles) is one 30-minute train ride, with a train arriving at least every 5 minutes, plus a 5-minute walk on each side. I'm disappointed when that train doesn't go to Brooklyn on weekends because of construction or something, and I need to make one transfer to another train that also comes within about a minute of me getting to the transfer station.
My voice lessons in SF were in Diamond Heights, under 3 miles from my apartment in the Mission. All the commute options involved a bus that comes every half hour, and getting to that bus involved either a transfer from another bus, or walking 15 minutes to take BART one stop. So I would just take a Lyft or a ZipCar, and if the every-half-hour bus wasn't running that day, I wouldn't even notice because I didn't consider it an option. (Sometimes for the return trip I would walk >20 minutes downhill to Glen Park BART, but it's too steep to be a reasonable commute uphill.)
And then I moved to Oakland and gave up on going to voice lessons entirely.
Both the MTA and the Bay Area transit systems have plenty of room for improvement. The difference is that we think that improvement to the MTA is politically realistic, that covering the city with good, reliable transit is within the realm of possibility because we're so close to being there. That's why we make more noise in NYC. In SF, it didn't feel like there was a point.
For instance, my current commute from voice lessons in the Upper West Side to my apartment in Brooklyn (about 9 miles) is one 30-minute train ride, with a train arriving at least every 5 minutes, plus a 5-minute walk on each side. I'm disappointed when that train doesn't go to Brooklyn on weekends because of construction or something, and I need to make one transfer to another train that also comes within about a minute of me getting to the transfer station.
My voice lessons in SF were in Diamond Heights, under 3 miles from my apartment in the Mission. All the commute options involved a bus that comes every half hour, and getting to that bus involved either a transfer from another bus, or walking 15 minutes to take BART one stop. So I would just take a Lyft or a ZipCar, and if the every-half-hour bus wasn't running that day, I wouldn't even notice because I didn't consider it an option. (Sometimes for the return trip I would walk >20 minutes downhill to Glen Park BART, but it's too steep to be a reasonable commute uphill.)
And then I moved to Oakland and gave up on going to voice lessons entirely.
Both the MTA and the Bay Area transit systems have plenty of room for improvement. The difference is that we think that improvement to the MTA is politically realistic, that covering the city with good, reliable transit is within the realm of possibility because we're so close to being there. That's why we make more noise in NYC. In SF, it didn't feel like there was a point.
I live in NYC and take the trains and buses everyday. There is a huge gulf between being occasionally inconvenienced and just having no other option.
Some people get so obsessed with NYC public transport they completely miss the big picture. Yeah your train may be 10 minutes delayed but at least there is a train. The perfect is the enemy of the good. The messy complexity of real life ( including corrupt politicians) is never going to look like something you dreamed up in sim city.
Some people get so obsessed with NYC public transport they completely miss the big picture. Yeah your train may be 10 minutes delayed but at least there is a train. The perfect is the enemy of the good. The messy complexity of real life ( including corrupt politicians) is never going to look like something you dreamed up in sim city.
It's vastly easier to fix an already established public transit system than implement a new one in the United States.
I honestly doubt another subway system will be built in a new city within the next decade, which is pathetic for other reasons.
I honestly doubt another subway system will be built in a new city within the next decade, which is pathetic for other reasons.
NY and Chicago - you guys get to be our financial centers. You get to play with the money that SV and the SV wannabes make. We already have Seattle, Portland, LA, Vegas, Salt Lake, Phoenix, Austin, Louisville, Madison, Indianapolis, Columbus, Kansas City, Minneapolis, Philadelphia, Boston, Raleigh, DC, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Miami, Provo, Baltimore, and Ann Arbor. Stop trying to create another overpriced tech mecca.
I don't think Seattle wants to be SV whatsoever, nor does it have to try to be.
In fact there's a lot of open, albeit in jest, hostility towards the "californication" of the PNW.
In fact there's a lot of open, albeit in jest, hostility towards the "californication" of the PNW.
Portland? My two tech friends in Portland love it, but neither say it's a tech mecca at all.
More of a Portland-culture Mecca, as redundant as it sounds
I don't get who "we" is supposed to be in this statement. Who has Indianapolis and SLC?
The USA. He's saying the USA already has enough tech cities.
I think they fall in the SV Wannabes category.
no one sane is going to call indianapolis a tech mecca
Good heavens yes old chap we don't want those greasy engineer types getting the sort of bonus that partners at the vampire squid get
[deleted]
> the presence of other industries like finance, media and advertising
This is a huge part of why I didn't enjoy being in SF (admittedly for a very short few months).
Every party I went to, most conversations I had (or overheard in a coffee shop) were tech-related. It felt impossible to have a conversation about anything else, and all conversations naturally gravitated towards tech like some sort of awful singularity.
It's pretty refreshing regularly talking to people who work in the arts, finance, education, administration, etc. If nothing else, just for novelty's sake - more interesting conversations happen when you can't talk about your work all the time.
This is a huge part of why I didn't enjoy being in SF (admittedly for a very short few months).
Every party I went to, most conversations I had (or overheard in a coffee shop) were tech-related. It felt impossible to have a conversation about anything else, and all conversations naturally gravitated towards tech like some sort of awful singularity.
It's pretty refreshing regularly talking to people who work in the arts, finance, education, administration, etc. If nothing else, just for novelty's sake - more interesting conversations happen when you can't talk about your work all the time.
I think this says more about the extensive tech-party/meetup culture in the bay area than any meaningful population statistics. Tech isn't even the largest industry in San Francisco [1]. As anywhere, you'll have a diverse set of friends/acquaintances in your hometown, but if you come to SF for tech reasons, chances are, you'll only meet tech people.
It only took me a slight active effort to diversify and you can meet the most interesting people in Healthcare, non-profits and tourism. New York, though remains unmatched in diversity along every dimension possible. It is not even quite the fair comparison given the population size differences between SF and NYC.
[1]: https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Tech-isn-t-biggest-S...
It only took me a slight active effort to diversify and you can meet the most interesting people in Healthcare, non-profits and tourism. New York, though remains unmatched in diversity along every dimension possible. It is not even quite the fair comparison given the population size differences between SF and NYC.
[1]: https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Tech-isn-t-biggest-S...
"As anywhere, you'll have a diverse set of friends/acquaintances in your hometown, but if you come to SF for tech reasons, chances are, you'll only meet tech people."
It's not even remotely the same "as anywhere". If you come to SF and live a middle-class life, you'll be surrounded by tech people. It breaks down on economic lines -- well-off people are in tech (and perhaps law and medicine), and everyone else is struggling.
Can you make friends outside of your industry? Sure, I had plenty. But it was increasingly difficult to meet those people without making a conscious effort to do so, and that's the difference.
It's not even remotely the same "as anywhere". If you come to SF and live a middle-class life, you'll be surrounded by tech people. It breaks down on economic lines -- well-off people are in tech (and perhaps law and medicine), and everyone else is struggling.
Can you make friends outside of your industry? Sure, I had plenty. But it was increasingly difficult to meet those people without making a conscious effort to do so, and that's the difference.
Having spent the last few months living in the Bay Area after decades on the east coast and Midwest I find the constant banter about technology refreshing.
In other parts of the nation that I’ve lived there is less mono culture but I often hit a wall chasing my ideas.
In the Bay Area there is limitless possibility not just embraced but quarterbacked by seemingly everyone I meet.
If New York or Chicago had a culture that not only embraced these other wonderful cultural aspects of life but also had this focus of building big ideas so deeply engrained in their way of life then I’d be there and not here.
That said, the rent is too dang high out in the Bay. Time to end NIMBYISM in this state!
In other parts of the nation that I’ve lived there is less mono culture but I often hit a wall chasing my ideas.
In the Bay Area there is limitless possibility not just embraced but quarterbacked by seemingly everyone I meet.
If New York or Chicago had a culture that not only embraced these other wonderful cultural aspects of life but also had this focus of building big ideas so deeply engrained in their way of life then I’d be there and not here.
That said, the rent is too dang high out in the Bay. Time to end NIMBYISM in this state!
[deleted]
This is one of the biggest appeals NYC has over Silicon Valley in my opinion. It's also why, when I had the choice to intern in Silicon Valley, I chose to intern in Santa Cruz instead. It's close enough to the Valley that I could attend cool tech events (albeit with a not particularly pleasant commute), while Santa Cruz still enjoyed the Bay Area's good weather and is not (yet) a tech monoculture.
I remember a while back someone was talking about how one thing they love about living in SV is how you can go to a bar and end up spending the night chatting about JavaScript frameworks with the guy sitting next to you.
That just horrified me. Sorry, but that's work stuff. Work stuff stays at work. If you hang out with people in different industries, you're less inclined to talk about work stuff because neither of you will understand the nuances of the other's job.
That just horrified me. Sorry, but that's work stuff. Work stuff stays at work. If you hang out with people in different industries, you're less inclined to talk about work stuff because neither of you will understand the nuances of the other's job.
Its not just work though. It can be learning a new framework to build an open source tool or something that can generate side income. And in my experience, I sometimes get unstuck on "work stuff" by a chance conversation at an event/bar, which makes me happier/helps my career :)
I guess this goes back to pg's essay on the messages cities send [0] that was posted here the other day. One person offered a particularly insightful comment on the message of my city, Dallas. I'll quote the most relevant part:
> I'd also say the message to me is "work hard, play hard, and keep a work life balance". People in Dallas get shit done, but they aren't going to work for more than 40-50 hours/week.
I can confirm that the culture here is very 9-5. We don't have the ambition-centric culture that SF has, and that works for me because I'm honestly not an ambitious person. You're probably not going to find many people here who are trying to grow their own business on the side or who go to a bar still trying to work through problems they're stuck on at work. I go to the bar when my job is stressing me out so I can forget about the stress by drinking tasty alcoholic treats until I can no longer concentrate on anything.
[0] http://www.paulgraham.com/cities.html
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16468986
> I'd also say the message to me is "work hard, play hard, and keep a work life balance". People in Dallas get shit done, but they aren't going to work for more than 40-50 hours/week.
I can confirm that the culture here is very 9-5. We don't have the ambition-centric culture that SF has, and that works for me because I'm honestly not an ambitious person. You're probably not going to find many people here who are trying to grow their own business on the side or who go to a bar still trying to work through problems they're stuck on at work. I go to the bar when my job is stressing me out so I can forget about the stress by drinking tasty alcoholic treats until I can no longer concentrate on anything.
[0] http://www.paulgraham.com/cities.html
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16468986
> you're less inclined to talk about work stuff because neither of you will understand the nuances of the other's job.
Yes, thank you for this! I was struggling to articulate why those novel conversations happen, but this is totally the reason.
Yes, thank you for this! I was struggling to articulate why those novel conversations happen, but this is totally the reason.
I am probably an exception, but I actually love this monoculture. I don't have to explain to anyone that I work at Houzz and get blank stares. The monoculture also has advantages of adopting things quickly. Like Tesla cars were on the road here earlier than anywhere else. Or adoption of Uber / Lyft etc. It almost like a glimpse into the future. And as someone pointed out, many of these companies are not "tech" strictly. Something like Mozilla is a tech company. Tesla is an automative company that takes advantage of technology. So it is not like this monoculture only talks about React native.
This is why I, and others like Peter Thiel, prefer LA over SF. LA is far less of a political, social, and cultural monoculture. And it has way better normal people/ethnic food, rather than an abundance of coconut oil roasted kale.
Shouldn’t be hard to step out of the bubble. Im in the Bay Area and leave technology at work—it almost never comes up in normal day to day interactions. Try expanding your set of friends or getting a non tech hobby. Good luck!
> Shouldn’t be hard to step out of the bubble
It really was.
It's been substantially easier to step out of the bubble in NYC. So easy that I didn't even have to intentionally do it.
It really was.
It's been substantially easier to step out of the bubble in NYC. So easy that I didn't even have to intentionally do it.
This may be a streetlight bias, but it seems (from a distance) that big US cities have more industrial specialization these days, with a big cultural weight.
SF/SV for tech. LA for media. Houston for oil....
Is it as prominent as it seems?
SF/SV for tech. LA for media. Houston for oil....
Is it as prominent as it seems?
This is a long standing historical pattern. Human Capital is very powerful, and urban concentrations of them create powerful synergies. The concentration of Cherry tree agriculture east of the Bay Area is another example. It's not just the soil there.
It depends on the city.
You mentioned Houston as an example. Well, Houston has a rivalry with Dallas, where I live. One thing that came up when gas prices dropped like a rock a few years ago was that Houston's economy also dropped like a rock because of how dependent the whole city is on oil, but Dallas was totally unfazed by the whole thing because of how diverse our economy is, causing some of my more crass fellow Dallasites to lord it over Houston about how much better we're doing economically and making fun of Houston for putting all their eggs in one basket (IMO, that was going too far: as much as I like to joke about how much Houston sucks, it's always just joking, and I'm not going to take pleasure in their unemployment).
You mentioned Houston as an example. Well, Houston has a rivalry with Dallas, where I live. One thing that came up when gas prices dropped like a rock a few years ago was that Houston's economy also dropped like a rock because of how dependent the whole city is on oil, but Dallas was totally unfazed by the whole thing because of how diverse our economy is, causing some of my more crass fellow Dallasites to lord it over Houston about how much better we're doing economically and making fun of Houston for putting all their eggs in one basket (IMO, that was going too far: as much as I like to joke about how much Houston sucks, it's always just joking, and I'm not going to take pleasure in their unemployment).
I thought this way for a long, long time. I missed NYC where every day I could go interact with a different industry at a Meetup. Then we moved South to San Mateo and we started finding more people who weren't in tech. It's nice. Not NYC-nice, but it's enough that I'm not pulling out my hair anymore.
Reminds me of one of my favorite lines in The Big Short:
"I told you we'd meet again. Unfortunately it's a place like this I would never be in... I had fashion friends."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enxLiMNGpkA
"I told you we'd meet again. Unfortunately it's a place like this I would never be in... I had fashion friends."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enxLiMNGpkA
[deleted]
Aside from the pleasant aspects of not drowning in a monoculture, it also helps with keeping a better sense of how people think outside of tech. A balanced perspective is definitely better than just a novelty in my opinion.
In Silicon Valley everything is just framed in the context of technology because that is what we do.
The diversity of startups is huge: marketing, software for construction project management, dog walking apps, you get the idea.
To say there is no diversity in the Bay Area might just mean people aren't looking hard enough.
Hell, you can go work for Tesla, in the automotive industry.
The fact that they are all tech companies is just the process we're going through in general at the moment as software continues to fill gaps where things are done manually or otherwise inefficiently.
The diversity of startups is huge: marketing, software for construction project management, dog walking apps, you get the idea.
To say there is no diversity in the Bay Area might just mean people aren't looking hard enough.
Hell, you can go work for Tesla, in the automotive industry.
The fact that they are all tech companies is just the process we're going through in general at the moment as software continues to fill gaps where things are done manually or otherwise inefficiently.
> The diversity of startups is huge: marketing, software for construction project management, dog walking apps, you get the idea.
Sure, but they're software startups first and foremost. Conversations felt like they inevitably drifted to very stereotypical discussions ("What's your stack?" or "Who's funding you?") because that's most people's day-to-day.
It's a bit like speaking to a group of executives (who also might come from diverse sectors) vs. speaking to a group of teachers, artists, dog walkers, and construction workers.
Sure, but they're software startups first and foremost. Conversations felt like they inevitably drifted to very stereotypical discussions ("What's your stack?" or "Who's funding you?") because that's most people's day-to-day.
It's a bit like speaking to a group of executives (who also might come from diverse sectors) vs. speaking to a group of teachers, artists, dog walkers, and construction workers.
That's right - and I alluded to that in my comment.
My point is that startups hire SME in all of those areas - people are actually dog walkers, teachers, artists, etc.
It may not be the focus - but the people and jobs are there even if not the primary focus.
My point is that startups hire SME in all of those areas - people are actually dog walkers, teachers, artists, etc.
It may not be the focus - but the people and jobs are there even if not the primary focus.
The fact that you have to look for it in the first place is the problem. You have to actively seek this out. In NYC, the reverse is true. If you want to be in a monoculture, you must actively avoid others.
This is not accurate.
I spent a lot of time in NYC after college and you have to go out of your way to mingle between groups.
Finance people hang out with finance people, entertainment people with entertainment people etc.
I don't think either place is ideal, but they both offer something is all I'm saying, if NYC has an edge here.
I spent a lot of time in NYC after college and you have to go out of your way to mingle between groups.
Finance people hang out with finance people, entertainment people with entertainment people etc.
I don't think either place is ideal, but they both offer something is all I'm saying, if NYC has an edge here.
I currently live in NY and have for the past few years - I have never experienced having to go out of my way to mingle with different groups. I also lived in San Francisco for years, prior to moving here. While there, I definitely had to go out of my way and really out of the city sometimes to meet different people doing things unrelated to tech or healthcare.
Maybe, but it is worth pointing out that some VC firms are fighting the good fight to transform New York into a rival of Silicon Valley. I'd especially praise Primary Ventures for their efforts:
"Long Live Silicon Alley: The Inaugural NYC Summit"
http://www.primary.vc/blog/summit-17
I was at one of their gatherings not long ago and they pointed out that New York is the world capitol for domain-specific knowledge in at least a dozen industries: publishing, law, medicine, fashion, art, education, finance, and more. There is a potential there for a kind of success that will be different than Silicon Valley's, but not necessarily inferior to Silicon Valley.
"Long Live Silicon Alley: The Inaugural NYC Summit"
http://www.primary.vc/blog/summit-17
I was at one of their gatherings not long ago and they pointed out that New York is the world capitol for domain-specific knowledge in at least a dozen industries: publishing, law, medicine, fashion, art, education, finance, and more. There is a potential there for a kind of success that will be different than Silicon Valley's, but not necessarily inferior to Silicon Valley.
Thank god. Not to disparage SV, but one thing I love about this city is the diversity of the subcultures here. I'd hate for it to be dominated by any one industry.
New York would want to compete, and it's big enough to do so. And I don't blame them for escaping the "city/state/geographical category is the next Silicon Valley" drivel that's been written previously because otherwise you just end up being eclipsed by Silicon Valley in endless comparisons between them.
For the benefit of those who haven't read the actual article: "New York will never be Silicon Valley" is meant by the author as a compliment, not an insult.
Relevant quotes:
Investors, founders and employees point to all the things that make New York one-of-a-kind as the reason tech is growing in America’s biggest city: the presence of other industries like finance, media and advertising, much more gender and racial diversity and the metropolis’s centuries-old status as a center of global commerce. New York provides a contrast to Silicon Valley, which has been criticized for tunnel vision, being insular, out of touch with the rest of the country and overly homogeneous–both company employees and the people for whom they create products.
Instead of being dragged down or drowned out by New York’s well-established mega-businesses, startups are feeding off them, hiring their disaffected employees, building products to make them more efficient and partnering with them in ways that help both sides.
“We wouldn't have been able to start our company with this scale anywhere other than New York,’’ says Ryan Williams, the chief executive officer of Cadre, a real estate investment startup backed by Andreessen Horowitz. Being in the center of finance gives the firm access to top Wall Street talent and helped it land $250 million to invest on behalf of Goldman Sachs Group Inc.
The proximity to major offices of many of the brands Zola sells through its site was a major benefit to being in the city, she says. Having the headquarters of top media and advertising companies a ten-minute subway ride away went a long way too
“New York is a much better place for fostering women entrepreneurs and women in tech,” says Samuels, who worked in the industry on both coasts. Both Ma and Ferreira agree.
Relevant quotes:
Investors, founders and employees point to all the things that make New York one-of-a-kind as the reason tech is growing in America’s biggest city: the presence of other industries like finance, media and advertising, much more gender and racial diversity and the metropolis’s centuries-old status as a center of global commerce. New York provides a contrast to Silicon Valley, which has been criticized for tunnel vision, being insular, out of touch with the rest of the country and overly homogeneous–both company employees and the people for whom they create products.
Instead of being dragged down or drowned out by New York’s well-established mega-businesses, startups are feeding off them, hiring their disaffected employees, building products to make them more efficient and partnering with them in ways that help both sides.
“We wouldn't have been able to start our company with this scale anywhere other than New York,’’ says Ryan Williams, the chief executive officer of Cadre, a real estate investment startup backed by Andreessen Horowitz. Being in the center of finance gives the firm access to top Wall Street talent and helped it land $250 million to invest on behalf of Goldman Sachs Group Inc.
The proximity to major offices of many of the brands Zola sells through its site was a major benefit to being in the city, she says. Having the headquarters of top media and advertising companies a ten-minute subway ride away went a long way too
“New York is a much better place for fostering women entrepreneurs and women in tech,” says Samuels, who worked in the industry on both coasts. Both Ma and Ferreira agree.
SV is rather provincial, as are Boston, etc, so it's a bit amusing that anyone would presume that NYC, with all its flaws, would suffer from some kind of SV-envy, that it somehow aspires to be one of those boorish enclaves. Certainly, NYC is glad it has a tech sector that is growing, but it a bit difficult to imagine a major city without a tech sector. The occupational diversity alone makes it a microcosm. A tech monoculture inspires images of a 21st century Lehigh Valley.
I grew up right outside of NYC and still live here, probably will never leave. I only have one other friend in tech and I honestly like it that way. I think you get a different perspective on things. I get to learn about a bunch of different industries and see things in a way I probably wouldn't if all my friends were in the same field.
Likewise, I grew up in Scarsdale. Very few of my friends work withinin the same industry. Excluding a few people in finance, I'm working through my group of friends in my head and everyone else works in a different industry: publishing, law, actuarial, fashion, art sales, advertising, education, medicine, and insurance (just off the top of my head). What's really nice about it is that we're all able to learn a bit about each industry. I don't need a mile deep, but it's nice to learn a few feet wide.
> ...much more racial diversity
Right, if you ignore the fact Asians make up a third of SV and hugely contribute to the tech scene, the area is totally lacking diversity.
NYC is so superficially centered on appearances, that I would never want SF to be like it. The type of strange ideas and interesting people I met in SF wouldn't have thrived in NYC. It doesn't surprise me that something like YC bloomed in SV, not in NYC, at least until it became a trendy industry. There's a reason why industries that involve appearances thrive in NYC, such as media, advertising, and fashion.
Don't get me wrong, I love NYC, I lived there for a number of years and missed it when I moved to SF. But I've always disliked the sense of superiority that NYC has over the rest of the country.
From my experience on living in both cities, NYC might be more diverse in industry, but at parties I found people in SF to be far more open to more thought provoking, controversial, and unconventional ideas.
Right, if you ignore the fact Asians make up a third of SV and hugely contribute to the tech scene, the area is totally lacking diversity.
NYC is so superficially centered on appearances, that I would never want SF to be like it. The type of strange ideas and interesting people I met in SF wouldn't have thrived in NYC. It doesn't surprise me that something like YC bloomed in SV, not in NYC, at least until it became a trendy industry. There's a reason why industries that involve appearances thrive in NYC, such as media, advertising, and fashion.
Don't get me wrong, I love NYC, I lived there for a number of years and missed it when I moved to SF. But I've always disliked the sense of superiority that NYC has over the rest of the country.
From my experience on living in both cities, NYC might be more diverse in industry, but at parties I found people in SF to be far more open to more thought provoking, controversial, and unconventional ideas.
The Bay Area is a beautiful melting pot of ethnically Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Black, and Indian folks that appears very diverse if you look at physical appearance.
But if you have lived in S.F. and also New York, it's easy to see why someone would claim N.Y. is more diverse. I think it has a lot to do with embracing different ways of living. Its a pretty common joke how much conformity there is in the Bay in a basic workplace enviroment, ie. wear this flannel shirt, have 'x' opinion on social media, have 'x' political view.
New York isn't better or worse, but it feels like there is more variety in your day to day interactions with different types of people.
But if you have lived in S.F. and also New York, it's easy to see why someone would claim N.Y. is more diverse. I think it has a lot to do with embracing different ways of living. Its a pretty common joke how much conformity there is in the Bay in a basic workplace enviroment, ie. wear this flannel shirt, have 'x' opinion on social media, have 'x' political view.
New York isn't better or worse, but it feels like there is more variety in your day to day interactions with different types of people.
> The Bay Area is a beautiful melting pot of ethnically Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, Black, and Indian folks that appears very diverse if you look at physical appearance.
I noticed this in the Dallas/Ft Worth area too. What I also noticed was how many friends in both NYC and SF were completely oblivious to the fact that cities besides their own can also be rather diverse.
Both SF and NYC are constantly in their own bubbles, and I wish that they'd break out of them more instead of dismissing 98% of the country as "flyover states."
I noticed this in the Dallas/Ft Worth area too. What I also noticed was how many friends in both NYC and SF were completely oblivious to the fact that cities besides their own can also be rather diverse.
Both SF and NYC are constantly in their own bubbles, and I wish that they'd break out of them more instead of dismissing 98% of the country as "flyover states."
I left the Bay Area for the Pacific Northwest (and not Portland or Seattle)...the bubbles do exist...out here I can talk with my neighbor about all kinds of things pertaining to farming, self-sufficiency, home repair, electronics (as most farmers are pretty well versed in basic electronic repair), etc...I now look at SF/LA/NY as being stuck in their own superficial bubbles and I'm glad I left.
By "NYC" do you mean "Manhattan between 14th St and the park"? Queens is the most ethnically diverse urban area in the world. SF is seeing its diversity dwindle.
If you think specific types of industry are an indicator of an area's superficiality, I'd like to remind you of a media company in SF called Lucasfilm, an ad company in nearby Mountain View called Google (a client of SF's Epsilon) and a fashion company called Gap Inc.
If you think specific types of industry are an indicator of an area's superficiality, I'd like to remind you of a media company in SF called Lucasfilm, an ad company in nearby Mountain View called Google (a client of SF's Epsilon) and a fashion company called Gap Inc.
> I'd like to remind you of a media company in SF called Lucasfilm, an ad company in nearby Mountain View called Google (a client of SF's Epsilon) and a fashion company called Gap Inc.
Don't forget Levi's, Pixar, etc.
Don't forget Levi's, Pixar, etc.
I don't get that comment. My experience is the complete opposite.
People in SV like to think they have unconventional ideas, but they all think the same way. ie, if you don't have the same pseudo-thought-provoking-disruptive ideas as the others, you will be laughed at literally.
I will quote Noam Chomsky, that perfectly summarizes SV in my opinion: ` One of the ways you control what people think is by creating the illusion that there’s a debate going on, but making sure that that debate stays within very narrow margins. `
NYC is way more diverse both graphically and in thoughts as you have people having completely different lifes, in different type of industries, with real-issues at hands.
People in SV like to think they have unconventional ideas, but they all think the same way. ie, if you don't have the same pseudo-thought-provoking-disruptive ideas as the others, you will be laughed at literally.
I will quote Noam Chomsky, that perfectly summarizes SV in my opinion: ` One of the ways you control what people think is by creating the illusion that there’s a debate going on, but making sure that that debate stays within very narrow margins. `
NYC is way more diverse both graphically and in thoughts as you have people having completely different lifes, in different type of industries, with real-issues at hands.
NYC is full of strange ideas and interesting people.
...and those strange and interesting people can still afford to live in NYC. Just look at the exodus of artists from San Francisco to Oakland, and now with landlords chasing everyone out of lofts in Oakland [1,2], from Oakland to LA. Despite paying lip service to the creative and the weird, the Bay Area has done very little to actually protect those folks [3].
[1] http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/07/29/oakland-artists-...
[2] https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/23/residents-in-salt-lic...
[3] https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/Artis...
[1] http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/07/29/oakland-artists-...
[2] https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/23/residents-in-salt-lic...
[3] https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/Artis...
One thing about racial diversity - a lot of metrics simply divide up the world into 4 groups (white, black, asian, hispanic) and then measure how close a population is to 25% of each group.
Quite a while ago (like 15+ years ago), I read a bit on language diversity, a chart of the number of languages spoken by at least 1000 households. San Francisco actually was highest on the list, higher even than New York (which was also very high up there).
Sorry for no cite, it was a while ago, I haven't been able to recreate this. SF's diversity may have dropped a bit since then, but it's most assuredly still there (I hear several different languages at least every day just walking around). But I do think it's another decent metric. After all, by the first measurement, there is essentially no diversity in Asia, which is absurd.
Quite a while ago (like 15+ years ago), I read a bit on language diversity, a chart of the number of languages spoken by at least 1000 households. San Francisco actually was highest on the list, higher even than New York (which was also very high up there).
Sorry for no cite, it was a while ago, I haven't been able to recreate this. SF's diversity may have dropped a bit since then, but it's most assuredly still there (I hear several different languages at least every day just walking around). But I do think it's another decent metric. After all, by the first measurement, there is essentially no diversity in Asia, which is absurd.
I think New York has over 800 different languages spoken - this article from the economist says it's the top in the US, close to the top in the world: https://www.economist.com/node/21528592
Unless you're a republican
There is a reason why Godzilla stamps Empire State Building out more often than Golden Gate Bridge in the movies :)