The Last Days of the Blue-Blood Harvest(theatlantic.com)
theatlantic.com
The Last Days of the Blue-Blood Harvest
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/05/blood-in-the-water/559229/?single_page=true
33 comments
There was an older article in the Atlantic that showed we aren't actually sure if the horseshoe crabs are unharmed by being taken out of the water and draining a lot of their blood. The declining numbers says we might be harming them or it might be some other factor.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/02/the-b...
I'm similarly suspicious of "catch & release" fishing...
I just literally don't understand catch and release. Your entertainment is to embed a hook in a fish so you can then remove it from the water, remove the hook, and throw it back in the water?
Why?
Why?
You set aside your responsibilities, shift into a different mental pattern, and do that for a few hours.
There are species of trout and salmon that are savvy at distinguishing between a piece of food and a hook disguised as one. Catching one can be a game over several hours. Once you have caught a fish, you put it back for your mates later on.
The reason for putting the fish back is that - often - more work goes into stocking the fisheries than than into fishing them. It is a bit like owning a boat. Courses of fish populations are repopulated through dedicated hatcheries, run by the fishing groups.
Also, there is a pokemon dynamic to creating your library of lures.
There are species of trout and salmon that are savvy at distinguishing between a piece of food and a hook disguised as one. Catching one can be a game over several hours. Once you have caught a fish, you put it back for your mates later on.
The reason for putting the fish back is that - often - more work goes into stocking the fisheries than than into fishing them. It is a bit like owning a boat. Courses of fish populations are repopulated through dedicated hatcheries, run by the fishing groups.
Also, there is a pokemon dynamic to creating your library of lures.
Pokemon analogy is terrific.
I don't fish, but:
Presumably it's enjoyable to sit in nature, far from distractions, with a variable reward that something happens every hour or so, and occasionally the thing that happens warrants a photo and something you can tell your friends about? A bit like watching cricket, actually.
Presumably it's enjoyable to sit in nature, far from distractions, with a variable reward that something happens every hour or so, and occasionally the thing that happens warrants a photo and something you can tell your friends about? A bit like watching cricket, actually.
I don't think you understand what literally means.
Also, anything can seem absurd if you are extremely reductionist and present it in an uncharitable fashion.
(I've never fished before, just some remarks)
Also, anything can seem absurd if you are extremely reductionist and present it in an uncharitable fashion.
(I've never fished before, just some remarks)
> I don't think you understand what literally means.
> I just literally don't understand [how] catch and release [is entertaining]
Is that better? I know the meaning and used the word appropriately. I just left out a few other words because I thought my intent would be clear.
But you know, it's trendy to complain about "literally" now so have at it.
> I just literally don't understand [how] catch and release [is entertaining]
Is that better? I know the meaning and used the word appropriately. I just left out a few other words because I thought my intent would be clear.
But you know, it's trendy to complain about "literally" now so have at it.
You're literally that guy. :D https://xkcd.com/725/
Never done it but I've always assumed fishing is just about sitting and doing not much in a pleasant place, a form of meditation. Sucks for the fish though.
Torturing fish for fun seems distinctly suspect to me as well.
I was careful to not use words related to pain, because whenever you mention that people are quick to claim that fish don't feel pain. Probably because so many people catch & release.
I still have yet to see a study on the topic, so maybe they're right. But I doubt it to be honest.
I still have yet to see a study on the topic, so maybe they're right. But I doubt it to be honest.
Yeah, I've heard those arguments before and I find them pretty specious. We humans are always super quick to claim that it's ok to do <thing that inflicts pain> on <thing that we want to do it to> because <some reason that thing doesn't actually feel pain anyway>. It's been applied to fish, human infants, black people, and all manner of other creatures that someone wants to inflict something nasty upon.
Right.
I don't think it's about the fish in particular, but that we're training ourselves--practicing even--to be uncompassionate to all things, human or not. We're supposed to be the better species here.
I don't think it's about the fish in particular, but that we're training ourselves--practicing even--to be uncompassionate to all things, human or not. We're supposed to be the better species here.
commercial fishing industries have a vested interest in achieving the maximum sustainable yield.
furthermore, legislation like quota systems are generally supported because it gives companies a golden ticket to harvest while denying newcomers from entering the space.
furthermore, legislation like quota systems are generally supported because it gives companies a golden ticket to harvest while denying newcomers from entering the space.
yet in practice overfishing occurs in species after species; individual interests do not always align with the macro interests.
that's why i think there's an interesting story lurking here. there were probably a small number of technocratic players involved (maybe even one) who were able to specify how the chain should work.
that's why i think there's an interesting story lurking here. there were probably a small number of technocratic players involved (maybe even one) who were able to specify how the chain should work.
Monitoring and enforcement have been tough (infeasible). I’ve been away from conservation for a while now, but I’d hope it’s gotten better with satelites, drones.
That sounds logical, but in my experience as a coastal New Englander, boat owner and former Seafood.com employee, (albeit 20 years ago), commercial fishing _communities_ (possibly critically distinct from the "industries" you noted) skew heavily towards anti-fisheries management. Think "NMFS destroys families" bumper stickers.
Ha. My side was saying NMFS hadn’t met a salmon run they couldn’t manage into extinction. I mostly gave up in 2000. Since then, from the popular press, it seems the stakeholders had reduced the friction. Gods, that’d be nice. I’d love to take my (future) grandkids salmon fishing, like my grandpa did us.
Unfortunately overfishing is super common. Tragedy of the commons and all that.
Quota systems and overfishing aren't mutually exclusive either. There's plenty of fisheries quotas that are still higher than a sustainable quota should be.
Quota systems and overfishing aren't mutually exclusive either. There's plenty of fisheries quotas that are still higher than a sustainable quota should be.
The cod wars between the UK and Iceland would suggest that fisheries policy is often not exactly the most calmly rational of human endeavours.
Horseshoe crabs are rather extraordinary creatures. They're essentially unchanged for 450 million years, and look like it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_crab
The roe is edible too, but has to be prepared very carefully as it can contain the same poison (tetratodoxin) as blowfish/fugu:
https://praneesthaikitchen.com/2013/01/28/horseshoe-crab-egg...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_crab
The roe is edible too, but has to be prepared very carefully as it can contain the same poison (tetratodoxin) as blowfish/fugu:
https://praneesthaikitchen.com/2013/01/28/horseshoe-crab-egg...
"Horseshoe-crab blood is exquisitely sensitive to toxins from bacteria. It is used to test for contamination during the manufacture of anything that might go inside the human body"
This seems like an impossibly random discovery. Did scientists test the blood of various animals until they finally found an optimum with horseshoe crabs ?
This seems like an impossibly random discovery. Did scientists test the blood of various animals until they finally found an optimum with horseshoe crabs ?
Please read the article entirely before rushing to comment...
”Bang, a pathologist, was interested in the creature’s primitive immune system. He settled on a protocol of injecting bacteria from seawater directly into horseshoe crabs, which cause their blood to clump into “stringy masses.”
Bang suspected this clotting had a purpose. It immobilized the bacteria, sealing off the rest of the horseshoe crab’s body from an invading pathogen. Intriguingly, their blood turned to gel even if he boiled the bacteria injection for five or 10 minutes first. This should have killed the bacteria and sterilized the injected solution. Bang realized the blood was sensitive not just to live bacteria but to bacterial toxins that persist even after sterilization.”
”Bang, a pathologist, was interested in the creature’s primitive immune system. He settled on a protocol of injecting bacteria from seawater directly into horseshoe crabs, which cause their blood to clump into “stringy masses.”
Bang suspected this clotting had a purpose. It immobilized the bacteria, sealing off the rest of the horseshoe crab’s body from an invading pathogen. Intriguingly, their blood turned to gel even if he boiled the bacteria injection for five or 10 minutes first. This should have killed the bacteria and sterilized the injected solution. Bang realized the blood was sensitive not just to live bacteria but to bacterial toxins that persist even after sterilization.”
Or you can just post your comment without reading the long article and some gloomy scold will do the hard work for you :)
This reminds me of how the best way to get the correct answer to a question on a technical forum isn't to ask, but to post the wrong answer. Someone will be along shortly to correct you.
https://xkcd.com/386/
This reminds me of how the best way to get the correct answer to a question on a technical forum isn't to ask, but to post the wrong answer. Someone will be along shortly to correct you.
https://xkcd.com/386/
I probably spend an hour reading HN comments for
every minute I spend reading the posted articles. The signal:noise ratio is remarkable.
For this, I prefer The Codeless Code and The Purple Beggar http://thecodelesscode.com/case/170
“My walk once took me past a beggar whose sign read, You do not DARE throw coins at ME! His body was purple with bruises but his bowl was always full.”
Perfect.
I could have sworn that this principle was an internet adage like Godwin's law or Poe's law, but I couldn't find one.
Perfect.
I could have sworn that this principle was an internet adage like Godwin's law or Poe's law, but I couldn't find one.
Was expecting an article about the French Revolution. Disappoint.
No crowdshare guillotine apps yet, but I hear Khosla Ventures and KPCB want to invest to materialize this category.
there must be an interesting story here about how they figured out that they needed to do this with a sustainable take rate (unlike most commercial fishing industries).