Content Snare: Leaving a job to build a SaaS business(failory.com)
failory.com
Content Snare: Leaving a job to build a SaaS business
https://www.failory.com/mistakes/content-snare
47 comments
Apologies for the low value comment, but I loved the little comic on that page. Precisely described the problem and makes me want to throw money at them to make it go away, despite it being completely irrelevant to me.
Haha those started because I drew up some extremely crappy stick figures to send to a designer to do up properly. People in our Facebook group were like "OMG THEY ARE AMAZING KEEP THEM"
Now they're on the home page
Now they're on the home page
The best part of this service is that it nags the clients for you and they won’t hold the annoyance against you.
I’m thinking maybe building a similar service for managing people. Call it tasksnare. Take all the confrontation out of management. You just set up a task on tasksnare and it will keep checking up with the worker until it’s done?
What do you guys think?
I’m thinking maybe building a similar service for managing people. Call it tasksnare. Take all the confrontation out of management. You just set up a task on tasksnare and it will keep checking up with the worker until it’s done?
What do you guys think?
> they won’t hold the annoyance against you.
It's a bit simplistic to think that.
I've never been a fan of these overly technical solutions to what is actually a social issue.
It's a bit simplistic to think that.
I've never been a fan of these overly technical solutions to what is actually a social issue.
Imo It woudlnt work, because contentsnare is content as a deliverable whereas a task can be very vague and nonconcrete
Theres already things like followupthen.com. also a few tokls for monitoring if your emails are replied to in gmail i think already
Theres already things like followupthen.com. also a few tokls for monitoring if your emails are replied to in gmail i think already
Daily standup meeting
There are un-intrusive bots for that
There are un-intrusive bots for that
I think there are much better ways of solving this problem. I'm only really experienced with software developers, so I'll stick to that, but I think it's probably similar in a lot of other situations.
Measurement in processes is a kind of Heisenberg situation. Every time you measure something, you have potential for affecting it. For example, if I go to a developer and repeatedly ask if they are done yet, there is a good probability that the developer will decide to be "done" just to get me off their back. Later when you discover that important things were skipped in order to get it out the door quickly, you will have a problem.
Because of this, it is better to have "passive" measurement. In other words, the activity itself should indicate whether or not it is done. If we were watching someone dig a ditch, we could decide if the ditch were dug just by looking at it. If it wasn't done, we could get a feeling for how long it will take by looking at how much was done so far. If we do that discretely, then the worker is not affected.
Of course, with software, this is not really feasible most of the time. You could insist that people check in their code often and follow the progress, but most management does not want to be so involved. Instead, it's better to have a shared document where a developer marks that they have started development on something and marks when they have finished (i.e. the code is merged and is or can be shipped).
As long as the developers are good about indicating this (and, as a manager, you should be strict about making sure this is done), then you know when tasks are started and finished. What's missing is "how much longer". Again, it is not a good idea to ask the developer. Instead we should rely on statistics.
Each task will take a certain amount of time. We can estimate that time. The estimate is a random variable with a certain distribution. I'm not sure what that distribution will be, but let's consider a case where each task is set up so that it is expected to take about the same amount of time. The time between completions might reasonably be governed by an exponential probability distribution. In other words, over time it becomes more and more likely that the task will be complete. For each task, there is an average completion time. Furthermore, if we group the tasks into a reasonably sized iteration (say 30 or more tasks), we can measure the average of these averages over many iterations.
As an example, say we have 10 iterations, each with 30 tasks. Each iteration will have an average duration for the task over the 30 tasks. We can then compute the average of those averages over the 10 iterations. The cool thing is that no matter what the distribution of the individual tasks, the average of the average is normally distributed. This distribution has the wonderful property that half of the distribution lies to the left of the mean and half lies to the right.
This allows you to predict pretty closely when an iteration will finish (though not individual tasks!). In other words, you can take that average of the average, multiply it by 30 (the iteration size) and 50% of the time you will complete the iteration in under that amount of time. If you also look at the variance you can calculate the 70%, 90% or whatever completion rate you desire.
Of course, it doesn't always work -- only when your team works well together and when they aren't pressured or pestered all the time. It's the manager's job to ensure that this happens -- let the statistics predict completion time.
You may be wondering, "What if I want to know the completion time of an individual task"? My answer: as a general rule, don't do that. It's a terribly horrible idea. It breaks your team. Of course there are times when you absolutely need to do it, in which case you can pester them in person. You should do it so infrequently that using a service would seem ludicrous. If you absolutely must micro-manage your team for every task, then you have broken your team and no tool is going to save you.
Measurement in processes is a kind of Heisenberg situation. Every time you measure something, you have potential for affecting it. For example, if I go to a developer and repeatedly ask if they are done yet, there is a good probability that the developer will decide to be "done" just to get me off their back. Later when you discover that important things were skipped in order to get it out the door quickly, you will have a problem.
Because of this, it is better to have "passive" measurement. In other words, the activity itself should indicate whether or not it is done. If we were watching someone dig a ditch, we could decide if the ditch were dug just by looking at it. If it wasn't done, we could get a feeling for how long it will take by looking at how much was done so far. If we do that discretely, then the worker is not affected.
Of course, with software, this is not really feasible most of the time. You could insist that people check in their code often and follow the progress, but most management does not want to be so involved. Instead, it's better to have a shared document where a developer marks that they have started development on something and marks when they have finished (i.e. the code is merged and is or can be shipped).
As long as the developers are good about indicating this (and, as a manager, you should be strict about making sure this is done), then you know when tasks are started and finished. What's missing is "how much longer". Again, it is not a good idea to ask the developer. Instead we should rely on statistics.
Each task will take a certain amount of time. We can estimate that time. The estimate is a random variable with a certain distribution. I'm not sure what that distribution will be, but let's consider a case where each task is set up so that it is expected to take about the same amount of time. The time between completions might reasonably be governed by an exponential probability distribution. In other words, over time it becomes more and more likely that the task will be complete. For each task, there is an average completion time. Furthermore, if we group the tasks into a reasonably sized iteration (say 30 or more tasks), we can measure the average of these averages over many iterations.
As an example, say we have 10 iterations, each with 30 tasks. Each iteration will have an average duration for the task over the 30 tasks. We can then compute the average of those averages over the 10 iterations. The cool thing is that no matter what the distribution of the individual tasks, the average of the average is normally distributed. This distribution has the wonderful property that half of the distribution lies to the left of the mean and half lies to the right.
This allows you to predict pretty closely when an iteration will finish (though not individual tasks!). In other words, you can take that average of the average, multiply it by 30 (the iteration size) and 50% of the time you will complete the iteration in under that amount of time. If you also look at the variance you can calculate the 70%, 90% or whatever completion rate you desire.
Of course, it doesn't always work -- only when your team works well together and when they aren't pressured or pestered all the time. It's the manager's job to ensure that this happens -- let the statistics predict completion time.
You may be wondering, "What if I want to know the completion time of an individual task"? My answer: as a general rule, don't do that. It's a terribly horrible idea. It breaks your team. Of course there are times when you absolutely need to do it, in which case you can pester them in person. You should do it so infrequently that using a service would seem ludicrous. If you absolutely must micro-manage your team for every task, then you have broken your team and no tool is going to save you.
This was insightful! I've read though previous long discussions on HN and elsewhere about the relevance, meaning and value of estimates in project management. Your comment really summed up how to approach estimating tasks in a logical and sensible way, that I think makes sense for both developers and managers.
I think there are much better ways of solving this problem.
The author of the article has proved there's a market. If you think there's a better way then there's money on the table waiting for you to pick it up. Until you prove your ideas with execution, they'll remain conjecture.
The author of the article has proved there's a market. If you think there's a better way then there's money on the table waiting for you to pick it up. Until you prove your ideas with execution, they'll remain conjecture.
This made do much sense... Thanks for sharing
First, I just want to say that building anything and getting paying customers is never easy so it's impressive to see what these guys have done.
While there is definitely a large market of agencies suffering from this problem, I don't think this is the "true" solution.
Clients hire an agency because they just want to pay somebody to build them a website (or whatever it actually is). When approaching this, they are almost definitely not thinking at all about having to do anything other than tell the agency what they want.
This is the client having unrealistic expectations, but they aren't supposed to be the experts, so it should be on the agency to be clear about those expectations. Even if you think you're clear about the about of work required of them, most client will drag their feet to no end on delivering the content. This is because they have 1,000 other things to do, don't really know where to even begin, and are getting frustrated because the reason they went to an agency was because they didn't have the time to deal with this.
Looking at setting up endless reminders as a solution misses the reason they came to you and loses out on a ton of value. Clients don't want to do this. Find a way so that they don't have to and then charge for that. If a client doesn't want to pay to have you do it at the start, give them a deadline for the content, if they don't get it to you by then, they can either get the site as-is or pay to have you do it for them.
What content do you need from the client? Figure out what questions you have to ask them to create that content, schedule a call, then ask them those questions, get a transcript, and give it to a copywriter. Then give the result to the client along with a timeline of "if this isn't approved or edited by X, then it is going live as-is."
I get where Content Snare is coming from, but I think it misses a much bigger underlying point of why this is such a problem.
While there is definitely a large market of agencies suffering from this problem, I don't think this is the "true" solution.
Clients hire an agency because they just want to pay somebody to build them a website (or whatever it actually is). When approaching this, they are almost definitely not thinking at all about having to do anything other than tell the agency what they want.
This is the client having unrealistic expectations, but they aren't supposed to be the experts, so it should be on the agency to be clear about those expectations. Even if you think you're clear about the about of work required of them, most client will drag their feet to no end on delivering the content. This is because they have 1,000 other things to do, don't really know where to even begin, and are getting frustrated because the reason they went to an agency was because they didn't have the time to deal with this.
Looking at setting up endless reminders as a solution misses the reason they came to you and loses out on a ton of value. Clients don't want to do this. Find a way so that they don't have to and then charge for that. If a client doesn't want to pay to have you do it at the start, give them a deadline for the content, if they don't get it to you by then, they can either get the site as-is or pay to have you do it for them.
What content do you need from the client? Figure out what questions you have to ask them to create that content, schedule a call, then ask them those questions, get a transcript, and give it to a copywriter. Then give the result to the client along with a timeline of "if this isn't approved or edited by X, then it is going live as-is."
I get where Content Snare is coming from, but I think it misses a much bigger underlying point of why this is such a problem.
There's more to Content Snare than just blasting your clients with reminders. One of the most important parts is making it easy for clients to provide content. You can do that by providing structure and visual references.
That way it's easier for them to understand what they need to provide.
When they understand what needs to be done, it often gets done.
We've found that's the big difference between the people Content Snare works for and ones it doesn't. The ones that take the time to lay it out properly and provide instructions get content faster. The ones that sign up, put in a couple of pages and let it blast their clients never get anywhere.
This is why I'm in the process of creating a bunch of templates that lay out copywriting instructions and wireframes... to get people started down the right path faster
(sorry if this is hard to read. I'm on my phone and half was done with speech to text)
That way it's easier for them to understand what they need to provide.
When they understand what needs to be done, it often gets done.
We've found that's the big difference between the people Content Snare works for and ones it doesn't. The ones that take the time to lay it out properly and provide instructions get content faster. The ones that sign up, put in a couple of pages and let it blast their clients never get anywhere.
This is why I'm in the process of creating a bunch of templates that lay out copywriting instructions and wireframes... to get people started down the right path faster
(sorry if this is hard to read. I'm on my phone and half was done with speech to text)
This was the value I perceived mostly as well. I likely wouldn't use reminders at all. In my experience, if a client isn't on the ball and can't remember or be bothered to send content, I probably don't want to work with them.
Making it easy to send the content though, that's great. Keeping it all in one place is even better.
This would be great if you could host it at your own domain (or can you already?) so clients just go to your website to do it rather than a totally different service. Just drop a widget into your own web page or something, tell clients to go to yoursite.com/content/clientName where they log in and start viewing. I suppose that would complicate things in other ways, but it would be nice in general to not make a user remember yet another service and url that's totally disparate from your own company.
Making it easy to send the content though, that's great. Keeping it all in one place is even better.
This would be great if you could host it at your own domain (or can you already?) so clients just go to your website to do it rather than a totally different service. Just drop a widget into your own web page or something, tell clients to go to yoursite.com/content/clientName where they log in and start viewing. I suppose that would complicate things in other ways, but it would be nice in general to not make a user remember yet another service and url that's totally disparate from your own company.
That's good to hear actually.
Right now you get a subdomain of contentsnare.com
I think it really needs the space of a full browser window to get the full experience, especially if there are screenshots/wireframes in the layout.
If this was squashed down into a typical column on the website, it could get a little crowded and hard to follow but I definitely see your point on this.
The best we have right now is the ability to share a request with a link - no login required. So you could have a button in your client portal or a client-specific page to open their request
Right now you get a subdomain of contentsnare.com
I think it really needs the space of a full browser window to get the full experience, especially if there are screenshots/wireframes in the layout.
If this was squashed down into a typical column on the website, it could get a little crowded and hard to follow but I definitely see your point on this.
The best we have right now is the ability to share a request with a link - no login required. So you could have a button in your client portal or a client-specific page to open their request
It's definitely not a universal scenario that the agency can produce 100% of the content for the client. Sure the content should be part of the planning and budgeting up front, and the agency should do as much of it as they can. But a common example of where you may need content from the client is a hotel that wants to do a new photoshoot for their new website. They know that photos are incredibly important to their marketing, they often have a preferred photographer they want to work with directly, even if you're local and offer to conduct the photoshoot for them, they can probably do a better job producing those assets than you can because they know their property inside and out.
That's a classic case where you have to depend on the client for content and a tool like Content Snare might be useful.
That's a classic case where you have to depend on the client for content and a tool like Content Snare might be useful.
This is hitting it on the head. A lot of clients don't want to provide their own content and spend time filling out headings and searching for images, sure some do but mostly they are focusing on their business and while yes they are the ones closest to the metal, actually doing the work, they aren't and likely shouldn't be doing the copywriting. Speak with them, figure out as much as you can about them, take notes, and get a copywriter like you said.
More often this goes pretty smoothly and they'll review the website quickly and will send corrections like "Oh, you should add this sentence." or "Don't say that, remove it." I usually do a few pieces and make sure the tone is on point and then take that new information to flesh out the rest of the site.
It's a lot easier for them to edit a "complete" product than to see a blank canvas and have to figure out what goes where.
More often this goes pretty smoothly and they'll review the website quickly and will send corrections like "Oh, you should add this sentence." or "Don't say that, remove it." I usually do a few pieces and make sure the tone is on point and then take that new information to flesh out the rest of the site.
It's a lot easier for them to edit a "complete" product than to see a blank canvas and have to figure out what goes where.
Yeah, it's a bit like the client asking you to collect and present information, then passing the question back to the client using a slick interface :)
Slightly off-topic, but if you're in the building phase, I HIGHLY recommend setting up a placeholder website and putting up some content and getting some backlinks.
If you have 12+ months of content and backlinks, you will have a much better foundation for getting organic traffic once you do launch.
If you have 12+ months of content and backlinks, you will have a much better foundation for getting organic traffic once you do launch.
$1k per month? Is that revenue? Doesn't sound like it's doing too great.
I think a lot of developers forget, perhaps due to their current annual salary and due to high costs of living, that a geography-independent $1K a month is nothing to sneeze at.
For example, rent in Michigan for a three bedroom apartment is about $1,200 a month [1], meaning your rent would be $400. Let’s say you spend $200 a month on groceries, and spend $400 a month on insurance, gas, bills, and other mandatory expenses.
Congratulations: you’re short term net financial neutral!
In theory, as long as your acquisition rate is neutral or positive compared to churn, you now live for free, without a boss and without an expectation of a 40 hour workweek. In theory, you can now retire. In practice, you can grow revenue, and nothing’s stopping you from starting business two and increasing your “retirement’s” margin.
For the right person, these conditions are life-changing.
[1] https://smartasset.com/mortgage/the-cost-of-living-in-michig...
For example, rent in Michigan for a three bedroom apartment is about $1,200 a month [1], meaning your rent would be $400. Let’s say you spend $200 a month on groceries, and spend $400 a month on insurance, gas, bills, and other mandatory expenses.
Congratulations: you’re short term net financial neutral!
In theory, as long as your acquisition rate is neutral or positive compared to churn, you now live for free, without a boss and without an expectation of a 40 hour workweek. In theory, you can now retire. In practice, you can grow revenue, and nothing’s stopping you from starting business two and increasing your “retirement’s” margin.
For the right person, these conditions are life-changing.
[1] https://smartasset.com/mortgage/the-cost-of-living-in-michig...
> a geography-independent $1K a month is nothing to sneeze at.
Right. Also, it's not very obvious, but it looks like the creator is from Australia, likely lives there (as the address listed in about page is also an Aussie address).
Not sure about Cost of Living, but definitely gotta be less than Bay Area / Silicon Valley...
James ( Jimmy?), if you are reading this, you might wanna update your about page with some story about you (builds trust), instead of a testimonial from a random user... https://contentsnare.com/about/
Right. Also, it's not very obvious, but it looks like the creator is from Australia, likely lives there (as the address listed in about page is also an Aussie address).
Not sure about Cost of Living, but definitely gotta be less than Bay Area / Silicon Valley...
James ( Jimmy?), if you are reading this, you might wanna update your about page with some story about you (builds trust), instead of a testimonial from a random user... https://contentsnare.com/about/
I also thought that was weird? The about page is not for testimonials, it's generally a place for information about who made the site/business right?
Agreed on the reaction to the "about" page.
Cost of living in Australia isn't always great (real estate close to Sydney is nuts, and there was even a brief period where SF looked like a bargain a few years ago). But Brisbane isn't that bad.
Cost of living in Australia isn't always great (real estate close to Sydney is nuts, and there was even a brief period where SF looked like a bargain a few years ago). But Brisbane isn't that bad.
FYI $1k / month in Australia would be extremely difficult to live comfortably on.
With mean Average Weekly Earnings (for salary earners) approaching AUD$85k/year[1] before tax (not sure what average household income is), I'd say $1k is basically impossible to live on.
And for some context, I currently can't hire any mid-to-senior software developers in Sydney for less than $150k/year package.
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/average-australian-weekly...
And for some context, I currently can't hire any mid-to-senior software developers in Sydney for less than $150k/year package.
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com.au/average-australian-weekly...
It's interesting you guys went straight to the about page. I've basically not updated that because our analytics show that no one is visiting it.
But can't ignore this. Removed testimonial and will update on Monday.
Cheers guys
Oh and yeah, 1k in Australia buys you a couple of pairs of socks and some McDonalds
(only half kidding)
But can't ignore this. Removed testimonial and will update on Monday.
Cheers guys
Oh and yeah, 1k in Australia buys you a couple of pairs of socks and some McDonalds
(only half kidding)
You might be interested to learn that average rents in Brisbane/Sydney/Melbourne are about AUD$2600/month (~USD$1900) for a small 2 bedroom apartment.
Plus expensive power, fuel, telecommunications, food, etc due to oligopolies in each of those spaces.
What I'm getting at, is that $1000/month doesn't go very far in any of our capital cities (and most people here live in or directly around our capital cities).
Plus expensive power, fuel, telecommunications, food, etc due to oligopolies in each of those spaces.
What I'm getting at, is that $1000/month doesn't go very far in any of our capital cities (and most people here live in or directly around our capital cities).
> average rents in Brisbane/Sydney/Melbourne are about AUD$2600/month (~USD$1900)
Melbourne and Sydney maybe, but Brisbane is drastically cheaper. When I was studying in Brisbane a few years ago my rent was in the ballpark of $300-400 AUD per week for 2-3 bedrooms, even at the higher end of $400/w that's only $1700AUD/m. You can even buy a two bedroom apartment for under $300k in Brisbane, compared to the $1m or more the same would run you in Sydney or Melbourne.
In contrast, when I graduated and moved to Sydney for work we lived a similar distance from the city as we did in Brisbane and yet were paying $500/w for 1 bed and much less total room.
I suspect Darwin, Perth, and Hobart are similarly cheaper. Generalising and saying all our capitals are expensive is incorrect, though I can understand why perceptions are driven by what happens in Melbourne and Sydney since nearly 50% of the population lives in one or the other.
Melbourne and Sydney maybe, but Brisbane is drastically cheaper. When I was studying in Brisbane a few years ago my rent was in the ballpark of $300-400 AUD per week for 2-3 bedrooms, even at the higher end of $400/w that's only $1700AUD/m. You can even buy a two bedroom apartment for under $300k in Brisbane, compared to the $1m or more the same would run you in Sydney or Melbourne.
In contrast, when I graduated and moved to Sydney for work we lived a similar distance from the city as we did in Brisbane and yet were paying $500/w for 1 bed and much less total room.
I suspect Darwin, Perth, and Hobart are similarly cheaper. Generalising and saying all our capitals are expensive is incorrect, though I can understand why perceptions are driven by what happens in Melbourne and Sydney since nearly 50% of the population lives in one or the other.
For some context. I live in both Sydney and Brisbane (and commute). There are some slight variances, but if you’re comparing like-for-like in apartments/living, the costs are also very similar.
And the populations of the regions around those three cities makes up more than half the population of Australia.
And the populations of the regions around those three cities makes up more than half the population of Australia.
What I like about Finance is that the "competition" is the masses of people that can barely have a conversation about cost of living.
I was living on just $400 a month in Chiang Mai. I would drool over a grand!!
That's actually an old figure. About 5x that now. Sure growth could be stronger but it's about 10% a month at the moment
I read it as $1k growth per month.
In my experience, ramping to $1k/month is the toughest part.
Getting from $1k to $10k/month is much easier. You have momentum, traffic, and some authority.
Getting from $1k to $10k/month is much easier. You have momentum, traffic, and some authority.
Here's hoping.
It's been a pretty hard slog to get from 1k to 5k but something seems to have happened in the last month and growth has ramped up considerably. Wish I knew what actually caused that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's been a pretty hard slog to get from 1k to 5k but something seems to have happened in the last month and growth has ramped up considerably. Wish I knew what actually caused that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Depends on how long they've been around.
If you launched an hour ago and you have $1k/mo run rate that is mind blowing.
If you launched a year ago, its decent.
If you launched 10 years ago, its abysmal.
If you launched an hour ago and you have $1k/mo run rate that is mind blowing.
If you launched a year ago, its decent.
If you launched 10 years ago, its abysmal.
Using it since last month. It really helps our fulfillment teams. Still a young product, but it solves the need quite well.
Thanks Julien!
Cool product, looks like it solves an annoying problem for agencies!
As a marketing consultant, this looks really useful. Signed up. Separate note, do you have an affiliate program? Would love to try to drive conversions for % revenue. My email is in my profile. I specialize in targeting SMBs on Facebook.
Sure do. I'll shoot you an email but there's also an affiliate application form at https://contentsnare.com/affiliate-application/
"The original idea was actually completely different to what we ended up building."
Nearly every internet-startup, ever
Nearly every internet-startup, ever
https://contentsnare.com
I had the same exact problem this site solves. Built a website for my Boxing Trainer (for free) with content placeholder and a landing page video. He never gave me the content like Services, Testimonials, Certifications etc... for months at end, despite a lot of pestering from my end and despite servicing a lot of happy clients who were only too glad to provide testimonials.
Then he TXT-ed me one day and said that a Gym that was looking to hire him told him that his website looks "empty" and he was mad at me.