Ask HN: Do you do drugs while coding?
44 comments
On the contrary, I think Javascript on its own isn't all that unwieldy; however, the monolithic toolchain that developers insist on wrapping their otherwise simple code in is what drives me up the wall.
Cannabis: Between 6AM - 10PM are Sativas/Hybrids only (aka, a head buzz). Indicas/Hybrids after 10PM - 5AM (aka, a body buzz). Adderall: 80-120mg per day over 3 dosings 40mg on wake, 40mg 2pm, and 40mg at 5-7pm. Never drink, just not my thing. I use to shroom or roll with friends a handful of times per year (spring cleaning for the mind). We all stopped, but then I got depression, so I have been sorting out a shroom (or xtc or lsd or k or whatever seems right) to replace the 6 month on anti-depressants that I forced myself and doctor off of. Harsher on my system than any drug I've ever taken. That and Adderall would/will have worst long term effects to organs I assume and I've tried almost all common and some not-so except heroin and crack nor would I smoke meth -- those felt and sounded like alice and the rabbit hole with no return. Never had a problem quitting any drug on a moments notice, except for the weed. I know, odd, but that is the only one I might never give up. It calms the anger and frustrations that builds at myself internally suffering due to my LD (learning disabilities) over the day.
To underscore my point on how harsh the anti-depressants for a few months were. 10 years or so back, I got MRSA from a dirty beach blanket in an in-grow calf leg hair (or only thing I can assume). I ended up at emergency room. They had to give "Drug of Last Resort" Vancomycin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_of_last_resort which 100% wiped out my microbiomes and then some. Still, with no gut bacteria no food nor illicit drug had even close to harshest ever those effects of that antidepressant. Never had skin problems, major ones. Never had a day every 45 days or so randomly where I was more depressed than ever while properly taking it.
To underscore my point on how harsh the anti-depressants for a few months were. 10 years or so back, I got MRSA from a dirty beach blanket in an in-grow calf leg hair (or only thing I can assume). I ended up at emergency room. They had to give "Drug of Last Resort" Vancomycin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_of_last_resort which 100% wiped out my microbiomes and then some. Still, with no gut bacteria no food nor illicit drug had even close to harshest ever those effects of that antidepressant. Never had skin problems, major ones. Never had a day every 45 days or so randomly where I was more depressed than ever while properly taking it.
There's truly nothing in my life as deeply satisfying as coding on 60mgs of adderall and a small bowl or two of cannabis. Unfortunately I've gotten spoiled by looking at code in a state of euphoria, and now I'm completely unproductive while sober. I can't even bear to spend 20 minutes looking at the code I was obsessively writing for 18 hours yesterday. It's just too boring and complex in my normal state of mind. I hope that's just a psychological thing and not because of any permanent damage. I would love to erase all drugs from my life but the code I write in 1 day under the influence is easily better than what I would produce in a month of sobriety.
You should consider trying something like Sober October. No offense, but keeping that up sounds like a quick and painful way to burn out.
I could see others conclude, yes, that is damage or will be from drugs. Which I disagree, but it could then be argued, that of course due to damage affecting my thinking and reasons to think otherwise, not true either. But I don't need to be right, just need to say I know that is one valid angle.
Psychological, your neuro pathways are getting a strong message to build one of the strongest connections between cannabis and addy. That can be reversed or reeducated. I think our brains still need majorly heavy hours of liberal arts, day dreaming, reading books per day or per week + sleep. I use a sleep calculator too, changed my life way more than I assumed.
Psychological, your neuro pathways are getting a strong message to build one of the strongest connections between cannabis and addy. That can be reversed or reeducated. I think our brains still need majorly heavy hours of liberal arts, day dreaming, reading books per day or per week + sleep. I use a sleep calculator too, changed my life way more than I assumed.
What sleep calculator do you use? How has it changed your life?
I 98.7% (close to 100% is my point) never wake up in REM anymore which is the "feel tired all day" state you would feel. I get thru at least one or two full sleep cycles relative to my ability to be percise-ish. I didn't know it was REM that screwed me. I thought, it was an, "at least 4 hours or you are screwed" type rule of thumb. The key is to get thru the full 90 minute (avg) 5 stage sleep cycle and then either wake up or commit to 2 cycles, etc. One or two still has you tired compared to a refreshing 4-5 (low end) or higher. But I was amazed that waking up in REM in the 5th cycle hurts worse sometimes, that getting only 90 cycle or two, egress before next round and surprisingly refresh I can get thru a day. I'm sure a non-layman in the field could turn my Dr. Suess version of an explanation to a more accurate and nuanced version. Tried others, more complex, this is perfect for my needs never looked back:
https://sleepcalculator.com/
https://sleepcalculator.com/
Not OP, but making sure I have good sleep definately had a big impact on my live, as I now have full productive day to do stuff, instead of having the first half of the day ruined by waking up at the wrong time.
The two options that work best for me are: - Wake up with the sun. Not feasible for every job, or when you have meetings early in the day, but if you have the freedom to do so, I'd recommend it. - Sleep phase alarm that measures your sleep phase by laying on the edge of your mattress and wakes you accordingly. More reliable than a sleep calculator, in my experience. My app of choice for Android is "Sleep as Android" (which is also an awesome Alarm in general).
Your mileage may of course vary, especially if you are already hooked on morning coffee.
The two options that work best for me are: - Wake up with the sun. Not feasible for every job, or when you have meetings early in the day, but if you have the freedom to do so, I'd recommend it. - Sleep phase alarm that measures your sleep phase by laying on the edge of your mattress and wakes you accordingly. More reliable than a sleep calculator, in my experience. My app of choice for Android is "Sleep as Android" (which is also an awesome Alarm in general).
Your mileage may of course vary, especially if you are already hooked on morning coffee.
That's an interesting point. I don't do "drugs" ever (coffee and wine permitting), but definitely there is a right balance between "care enough to do this for N hours" and "mentally capable to jump the hoops involved". I think being less sober supports the former whilst hurting the latter, but the optimal balance is definitely not "fully sober".
Maybe my body is just amphetamine-sensitive, but 80-120mg of Adderall per day sounds insane.
40mg is normal. 60mg is high dose. 80-120 is absolutely abuse except in 0.1% of the population that just doesn't respond.
20mg XR has me uneasily wired for 18+ hours. Rarely take it because of that.
20mg XR has me uneasily wired for 18+ hours. Rarely take it because of that.
I smoke cannabis. But sometimes I get so high that finding a coding error may be frustrating and a long job.
I like cannabis and coding, but I feel I code faster and better (harder, stronger...) when I'm totally sober.
I like cannabis and coding, but I feel I code faster and better (harder, stronger...) when I'm totally sober.
I like your honesty.
A little seems to help, especially when you're getting older and it's getting more painful to stare at text all day.
Too much though, and you might as well take a nap and then get some coffee. (But if you're an obsessive retard like me, you skip the nap and double the coffee. The battle waits for no one. To war!)
I do like to brainstorm super high, though. The best ideas seem to repeatedly emerge from the fog, while dead ends drift away.
But yeah, for getting things done, better to go easy on it.
I say use it if it helps you, but don't fool yourself. Keep it real.
A little seems to help, especially when you're getting older and it's getting more painful to stare at text all day.
Too much though, and you might as well take a nap and then get some coffee. (But if you're an obsessive retard like me, you skip the nap and double the coffee. The battle waits for no one. To war!)
I do like to brainstorm super high, though. The best ideas seem to repeatedly emerge from the fog, while dead ends drift away.
But yeah, for getting things done, better to go easy on it.
I say use it if it helps you, but don't fool yourself. Keep it real.
Coffee. I drink a strong black cup of coffee within my first hour awake and then have another after lunch.
I am against other forms of performance-enhancing drugs (other than caffeine). They create a doping culture that is no different from that displayed in professional sports.
If you have a professionally diagnosed learning disorder, you may find help from meds. If you have a learning disability, avoid a job that requires you to program all day . You will be trudging against a perpetual, strong counter-current that will compound your challenges.
I am against other forms of performance-enhancing drugs (other than caffeine). They create a doping culture that is no different from that displayed in professional sports.
If you have a professionally diagnosed learning disorder, you may find help from meds. If you have a learning disability, avoid a job that requires you to program all day . You will be trudging against a perpetual, strong counter-current that will compound your challenges.
> I am against other forms of performance-enhancing drugs (other than caffeine). They create a doping culture that is no different from that displayed in professional sports.
It is different because programmers aren’t directly competing with each other under controlled conditions. If caffeine were illegal, would you still be in favour of it?
> If you have a serious, professionally diagnosed learning disability, maybe you shouldn't try programming all day?
If someone can program effectively with a prescribed drug, why on earth shouldn’t they? Not allowing a disabled person to do a job that they can with some reasonable adjustments made by the employer is legal discrimination.
Between those two comments, it just sounds like you’re afraid of being outperformed by people who are prescribed drugs you can’t get legally.
It is different because programmers aren’t directly competing with each other under controlled conditions. If caffeine were illegal, would you still be in favour of it?
> If you have a serious, professionally diagnosed learning disability, maybe you shouldn't try programming all day?
If someone can program effectively with a prescribed drug, why on earth shouldn’t they? Not allowing a disabled person to do a job that they can with some reasonable adjustments made by the employer is legal discrimination.
Between those two comments, it just sounds like you’re afraid of being outperformed by people who are prescribed drugs you can’t get legally.
Oh, I can easily be outperformed by people not on drugs.
No, it would be a waste of drugs.
Weed only. Only when working on rough-draft/poc code. Oh, and making architecture diagram.
I can either see the big picture clearly, draw.
Or I see the narrow problem in detail. Crank that Boston+Rush playlist and code one component complete but rough.
Also, sometimes I've got to grind through managerial paperwork, so reefer there too.
When I moved to Seattle I learned of a "Northwest speedball" - espresso+weed.
Oh and I use alcohol at nearly every sales/networking function.
I can either see the big picture clearly, draw.
Or I see the narrow problem in detail. Crank that Boston+Rush playlist and code one component complete but rough.
Also, sometimes I've got to grind through managerial paperwork, so reefer there too.
When I moved to Seattle I learned of a "Northwest speedball" - espresso+weed.
Oh and I use alcohol at nearly every sales/networking function.
I like your seeing the big picture remark. I've felt before like I best understood a system, high. Mostly for me it makes for half refactored code. It's better to smoke and browse documentation/learn.
I sometimes smoke a small bowl of cannabis if it's getting late in the day and I'm becoming frustrated over a problem. It helps me continue working without throwing my laptop out the window. It can also aid my creativity, which can be useful.
If I am learning something brand new I prefer to be sober. But if I'm doing something I know or iterating on previous concepts I like to be high. I am definitely slower while high, however. And after a couple bowls over the day my brain gets too fogged to do anything complex. I've got RSI and that makes things slow anyway but when I'm high I'm less frustrated by it. Especially when WSR doesn't recognize what I say 5+ times in a row.
Modafinil a few times a week, until I get headaches. And then I stop for a couple of days. Been meaning to get hold of some Adderall. Other than that, caffeine via drink (coffee/energy drink). Weed isn't a drug I'd pair with coding. I'm only an occasional smoker anyway. And I don't drink alcohol very often. Only really drink as part of social obligation.
Modafinil can (sometimes literally) save your life when you're sleep deprived or during a crunch time. Not to be abused, obviously. Everything else just fails in at least one of 3 ways: tolerance build up, side effects or just not enough impact.
Can confirm, modafinil saved me just this week. It's great as long as you can flex your schedule to catch up on sleep relatively quickly after the crunch.
Something I've noticed with it is that I can breath a lot easier when I take it. I have asthma and get seasonal allergies, and it dilates my sinus cavity.
Something I've noticed with it is that I can breath a lot easier when I take it. I have asthma and get seasonal allergies, and it dilates my sinus cavity.
Someone was telling me the other day that they're starting to use it as a first line treatment for depression and people have been on it continuously for years. I wonder what it would do to the valley if all the programmers were on it...
I've seen it being abused by people who are creeping into a burnout. Making the burn in deeper.
Like any stim, especially in our community, be careful.
It sure is fun, but pretty much wasted if doing on a day to day job.
Like any stim, especially in our community, be careful.
It sure is fun, but pretty much wasted if doing on a day to day job.
I've never used it, but it does have far, far lower abuse potential than traditional stims such adderall or other amphetamines. I could definitely buy that psychological dependence could occur pretty easily, though.
Coffee. If I need to slog through something tedious I'll drink a beer or two.
I feel like I'm on drugs (amphetamine specifically) while coding.
edit: and it is annoying, addictive and inefficient, I would've preferred to have a clear head.
edit: and it is annoying, addictive and inefficient, I would've preferred to have a clear head.
Caffeine. I've tried to code while high, but it didn't work well. I got stumped trying to name variables.
Cannabis makes it harder to focus.
Caffeine works top notch tho.
Caffeine works top notch tho.
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Just coffee.
Only sugar.
Coffee and energy drinks.
never tried
no
no
no
Oh wait, except Javascript. I don't know how frontend people manage to get anything done in that carnival funhouse ecosystem if they're not on drugs. Now that I think about it, the main frontend guy who did our coffeescript deprecation is kind of a pothead...