Allegations of overpriced repair charges at Apple Store [video](youtube.com)
youtube.com
Allegations of overpriced repair charges at Apple Store [video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XneTBhRPYk
67 comments
> To take the car analogy from the video a bit further, how many car owners stick to using the dealer to service their vehicles for the entire life of the car?
Most of them, I assumed. Is that not the case?
Most of them, I assumed. Is that not the case?
I only know of one person who regularly uses the dealership for servicing. Car dealerships are known for ripoff prices - you only use it if you don't know any better, don't care about the cost or just want a one-stop "they take care of everything" shop (non-dealership repair shops are often more specialized to particular aspects of cars).
For those that didn't watch the video before commenting the 'water indicators' happen with just normal humidity, not actual contact with water. Like the little moisture indicators digikey gives out. It's a terrible method of determining damage.
The real issue however is that apple purposefully makes it hard to do repairs and replacement. It's anti consumer behavior, and it amazes me that some of the culture here doesn't find it appalling. $2000 for a laptop it should be at the least repairable.
The real issue however is that apple purposefully makes it hard to do repairs and replacement. It's anti consumer behavior, and it amazes me that some of the culture here doesn't find it appalling. $2000 for a laptop it should be at the least repairable.
Specifically, they occur only at 100 percent humidity causing condensation.
That could happen if you take the laptop from a cold air conditioned room to outside. The warm wet outside air touches the cold laptop and condenses.
This type of condensation is pretty bad for electrical devices too though.
Ideally the device would be gas and liquid sealed, and this wouldn't be an issue.
That could happen if you take the laptop from a cold air conditioned room to outside. The warm wet outside air touches the cold laptop and condenses.
This type of condensation is pretty bad for electrical devices too though.
Ideally the device would be gas and liquid sealed, and this wouldn't be an issue.
I'm just going to quote Linus (Tech Tips) from his experience just trying to purchase parts for an iMac Pro:
> "…So if an authorized service provider fails to return a defective part during the exchange for any reason, they get dinged for the price of the replacement part in what is a clear effort to prevent any spare parts from making their way out into the wild. … This is far from the only punitive measure that Apple appears to be willing to inflict upon its ‘partners’. From talking to them, we were struck by the culture of fear that Apple cultivates among its authorized service providers. They explicitly prevent them from ordering replacement parts for the sake of having them on hand. So what that means is that they require a work order to be placed before the part will even be shipped, which creates massive delays of potentially weeks, for something as simple as a freaking RAM swap. Which makes the AASP look bad in comparison to Apple’s own service centers. But that’s Apple’s policy. To make matters worse, if an AASP attempts to order a part that they don’t yet have the certification for, Apple will send them a fine instead of the parts they ordered. And this is all for the privilege of having access to Apple’s supply chain. Oh and the best part is anyone caught talking about any of this to anybody outside of Apple; for them this is grounds for severe retaliation: Revocation of AASP status or certifications, fines or even potential legal actions … By comparison, Samsung has a web portal that you can log into and order any replacement phone parts that you could want…"
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwEInwvFbwk
(I had original transcribed it here: https://penguindreams.org/blog/i-paid-180-for-headphones-tha...)
> "…So if an authorized service provider fails to return a defective part during the exchange for any reason, they get dinged for the price of the replacement part in what is a clear effort to prevent any spare parts from making their way out into the wild. … This is far from the only punitive measure that Apple appears to be willing to inflict upon its ‘partners’. From talking to them, we were struck by the culture of fear that Apple cultivates among its authorized service providers. They explicitly prevent them from ordering replacement parts for the sake of having them on hand. So what that means is that they require a work order to be placed before the part will even be shipped, which creates massive delays of potentially weeks, for something as simple as a freaking RAM swap. Which makes the AASP look bad in comparison to Apple’s own service centers. But that’s Apple’s policy. To make matters worse, if an AASP attempts to order a part that they don’t yet have the certification for, Apple will send them a fine instead of the parts they ordered. And this is all for the privilege of having access to Apple’s supply chain. Oh and the best part is anyone caught talking about any of this to anybody outside of Apple; for them this is grounds for severe retaliation: Revocation of AASP status or certifications, fines or even potential legal actions … By comparison, Samsung has a web portal that you can log into and order any replacement phone parts that you could want…"
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwEInwvFbwk
(I had original transcribed it here: https://penguindreams.org/blog/i-paid-180-for-headphones-tha...)
I've worked at an AASP and managed Apple Self Service programs at two companies so I have a bit more information to what you posted.
Apple is very strict when it comes to service repairs because the supply chain and processes for receiving parts is essentially the same between AASP repairs and those done at stores and at depot centers. Nowadays, AASP repairs represent a tiny fraction of all repairs and Apple grandfathering old AASPs and allowing companies to participate in Self Service repairs is more of a courtesy than anything else.
- AASPs can order spare parts under an "exchange" option or as "new". New parts are typically ordered when a customer has lost an item (keycap, charger, apple remote). Everything else usually gets processed as an exchange repair. Apple learns a lot from the defective parts it receives during a repair. They also don't want defective/broken parts floating around eBay so it provides AASPs a monetary incentive to send back KBBs. - AASPs can keep parts on-hand. These parts can be purchased on a credit line and the AASP will receive a refund on the cost of these parts after the repair is done and the KBB (known bad board/part) is sent to Apple. Plus they will receive compensation if the product is under warranty in the amount of 75-100 bucks for doing the repair right. - I would agree that not everything in GSX should be kept highly confidential. Apple's takeapart guides are really awesome and I wish they were published freely. Within GSX is the coveted VIG (visual inspection guides) which determine which classes of repairs on an iPhone or iPad are covered under warranty. For example, a scratched camera lens on an iPhone 4S warranted a whole unit replacement back then even though no formal repair extension program was announced to customers. Maybe this was a serious problem or maybe Apple was giving customers a courtesy repair on this type of issue. But surely publishing this document would cause some people with 4Ss to intentionally scratch their camera lens to get a free replacement device. - And of course, if you aren't certified on a product line Apple doesn't want you opening repairs or ordering parts for that line. In my experience, you can't even open repairs on certain products unless you've passed an online qualification exam (for $100). I think this is pretty reasonable. I've never received parts only to be later charged for not being certified on the defective product.
Apple is very strict when it comes to service repairs because the supply chain and processes for receiving parts is essentially the same between AASP repairs and those done at stores and at depot centers. Nowadays, AASP repairs represent a tiny fraction of all repairs and Apple grandfathering old AASPs and allowing companies to participate in Self Service repairs is more of a courtesy than anything else.
- AASPs can order spare parts under an "exchange" option or as "new". New parts are typically ordered when a customer has lost an item (keycap, charger, apple remote). Everything else usually gets processed as an exchange repair. Apple learns a lot from the defective parts it receives during a repair. They also don't want defective/broken parts floating around eBay so it provides AASPs a monetary incentive to send back KBBs. - AASPs can keep parts on-hand. These parts can be purchased on a credit line and the AASP will receive a refund on the cost of these parts after the repair is done and the KBB (known bad board/part) is sent to Apple. Plus they will receive compensation if the product is under warranty in the amount of 75-100 bucks for doing the repair right. - I would agree that not everything in GSX should be kept highly confidential. Apple's takeapart guides are really awesome and I wish they were published freely. Within GSX is the coveted VIG (visual inspection guides) which determine which classes of repairs on an iPhone or iPad are covered under warranty. For example, a scratched camera lens on an iPhone 4S warranted a whole unit replacement back then even though no formal repair extension program was announced to customers. Maybe this was a serious problem or maybe Apple was giving customers a courtesy repair on this type of issue. But surely publishing this document would cause some people with 4Ss to intentionally scratch their camera lens to get a free replacement device. - And of course, if you aren't certified on a product line Apple doesn't want you opening repairs or ordering parts for that line. In my experience, you can't even open repairs on certain products unless you've passed an online qualification exam (for $100). I think this is pretty reasonable. I've never received parts only to be later charged for not being certified on the defective product.
Apple quoted me nearly $2000 at their Sydney store to fix my 2014 MBP for some water damage when I derped a cup of tea onto the keyboard.
Having discovered Louis Rossman via Reddit, I shipped my laptop to his store in NYC and was able to get my laptop repaired for less than a quarter of that price. Happy to answer any questions about my experience.
I'm a convert for the repair movement for life.
Having discovered Louis Rossman via Reddit, I shipped my laptop to his store in NYC and was able to get my laptop repaired for less than a quarter of that price. Happy to answer any questions about my experience.
I'm a convert for the repair movement for life.
I spilt a glass of water on an old Lenovo laptop I had (while it was running), the keyboard had a tray under it which drained outside of the laptop. [0] But if i had damaged it, every single part was removable, orderable and replaceable.
[0] http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/avoiding-water-on-the-brain
[0] http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/avoiding-water-on-the-brain
Ever since I saw this in person I've wondered why other manufacturers haven't copied it. Easily one of the best ideas on the market.
With regards to the article, what could be worse than Mountain Dew? Milk?
With regards to the article, what could be worse than Mountain Dew? Milk?
Spill trays, albeit without the gutter, used to be a common feature, but they were a casualty of the thinness wars. A super-thin spill try can't hold much liquid, so what's the point? I like this solution from Lenovo.
Being able to pull a laptop's battery as soon as liquid was spilled on it was another great feature for survivability. Water doesn't directly damage electronics in and of itself. The damage is usually done by the short-circuits liquids facilitate. Disconnecting the battery before the liquid spreads through the device can prevent a lot of damage. I suppose the thinness wars probably killed this feature too.
Being able to pull a laptop's battery as soon as liquid was spilled on it was another great feature for survivability. Water doesn't directly damage electronics in and of itself. The damage is usually done by the short-circuits liquids facilitate. Disconnecting the battery before the liquid spreads through the device can prevent a lot of damage. I suppose the thinness wars probably killed this feature too.
The mac keyboards have a nearly hermetic seal on the backside, the backlight is backed with plastic and rubber and soft-glued to the backside of the keyboard tray.
If you do spill on a mac, flip it upside down asap and power it off asap. Then remove the back panel and disconnect the battery. The keyboard might be lost, but the rest of the computer is usually fine.
If you do spill on a mac, flip it upside down asap and power it off asap. Then remove the back panel and disconnect the battery. The keyboard might be lost, but the rest of the computer is usually fine.
How long did he take to repair it? I’m amazed he isn’t backed up for months. Hell, my local cobbler is really good, and it takes a fortnight to re-heel a boot. I couldn’t be without my laptop for that long.
Roughly three weeks. Honestly their communication could've been clearer and let me know my options versus me having to kind of prod a bit.
Also it's not _just_ his practice, as he's got many other technicians that he trains to do this level of high quality repairs.
Also it's not _just_ his practice, as he's got many other technicians that he trains to do this level of high quality repairs.
I feel like Apple has apolicy that anything with red water indicators needs to be replaced. Since they charge a fixed price for labor and guarantee the repair they are protecting themselves from giving a faulty device to the customer. A third-party technician can bend back the pin, and ignore anything else because they are allowed to partially repair the device to a lesser standard.
The same thing goes with cars, the dealership will only replace OEM parts and usually won’t offer to repair something. A local mechanic has more freedom to give you the option of repair the part for less money even if the part is now less reliable.
The same thing goes with cars, the dealership will only replace OEM parts and usually won’t offer to repair something. A local mechanic has more freedom to give you the option of repair the part for less money even if the part is now less reliable.
Yes, but that is not really the issue here. To take your analogy, you have the RIGHT to go to a local mechanic who can get parts for your car. Apple is trying as hard as they can to kill the 3rd party repair shops and make there life difficult. This behavior should be illegal since they provide a valuable service as your local mechanic does.
Car companies are trying just as hard to make third party repairs hard as well. So many things can only be replaced now anyway.
It's not just Apple, which is why we need a law.
It's not just Apple, which is why we need a law.
> The same thing happens with cars, the dealership will only do repairs with OEM parts and won’t attempt to weld anything back together instead option to replace it.
No, but they might be willing to rotate your tires without requiring you get a new transmission, even if they really recommend it. Now, if the dealership was also the manufacturer, and had a way to prevent repair materials from reaching the public, then perhaps they would be a but more strict about requiring all-or-nothing repairs...
No, but they might be willing to rotate your tires without requiring you get a new transmission, even if they really recommend it. Now, if the dealership was also the manufacturer, and had a way to prevent repair materials from reaching the public, then perhaps they would be a but more strict about requiring all-or-nothing repairs...
I could see how that was their policy, however, they could have explained to the customer their options. Either have it repaired here and Apple will guarantee it, or take it to an independent repair shop and potentially get it fixed for much cheaper. I realize they're not obligated to do that, but I certainly would think a lot more highly of Apple if they did that.
That does appear to be where some of their more outlandish pricing comes from. They'll either do a repair that brings the machine up to snuff (bar normal wear), or they won't.
So that bent pin is now a substandard, weakened part. If that pin's in a socket, the socket oughta be replaced. But Apple don't expect local techs to be soldering things, so the socket doesn't get replaced, the whole subassembly does. Next thing you know, you're getting a whole motherboard for that bent pin. And they were stupidly expensive even before they started soldering ram (& storage?) to them.
If that wasn't expensive enough, the liquid indicators play hell with this, for exactly the same reason. If they actually believe there's liquid damage, the list of subassemblies that need to be replaced to bring the machine up to par, gets very spendy very quickly.
I don't know if there's really an easy way to change this. The more you try to standardise the operation, the less flexible it gets. Overkill is great when it's on Apple's dime, and shocking when it isn't.
So that bent pin is now a substandard, weakened part. If that pin's in a socket, the socket oughta be replaced. But Apple don't expect local techs to be soldering things, so the socket doesn't get replaced, the whole subassembly does. Next thing you know, you're getting a whole motherboard for that bent pin. And they were stupidly expensive even before they started soldering ram (& storage?) to them.
If that wasn't expensive enough, the liquid indicators play hell with this, for exactly the same reason. If they actually believe there's liquid damage, the list of subassemblies that need to be replaced to bring the machine up to par, gets very spendy very quickly.
I don't know if there's really an easy way to change this. The more you try to standardise the operation, the less flexible it gets. Overkill is great when it's on Apple's dime, and shocking when it isn't.
So you're saying that a Macbook Pro isn't up to snuff if they replace a single broken keyboard key. They need to replace the battery, too. I mean, the user might have pressed on the key slightly harder than normal to determine it was broken, which would flex the case slightly and put a non-stardard pressure on the battery, weakening the casing.
Stop justifying their terrible policies. Their decisions are purely economic and magical thinking about technology lets them get away with it. A bent data pin on a connector doesn't lead to a catastrophic cascade of system-wide failures. If it does, then Apple shouldn't be making computers. I guarantee that at some point in the production line those connectors were heaped in a bucket. Maybe a standard bucket, but a bucket nonetheless.
Anecdote time. I got curious about some old PC parts I had in the basement and decided to throw them together. Motherboard, 1st gen Core 2 Duo (with heatsink and original thermal paste), Nvidia 6800GT, etc - pieces from 10+ years ago that I rode hard sat unprotected in a milk crate for over a decade and were moved across the country 3 times. I've been using them as a NAS for the last 6 months (powered 24/7) with no problems. It isn't even in a case. I use a scissors to short the power leads directly on the motherboard to boot it. And that's far from the first time I've janked a computer together.
Perhaps a better example, I volunteer regularly at a computer recycling place and regularly see 5+ year old laptops that were given to people that must have used them for fighting off bears and stirring soup. We clean em up, test em, and put them up for resale. Sure there are occasionally broken ones, but they're surprisingly rare. No one there has ever seen a computer even remotely resembling the condition of the Macbook brought in by the lady in Louis's follow up video.
If you really believe that a tiny dent in a corner of the chassis leads to irreparable, functional damage to an Apple computer, why on Earth would you continue to buy them? And if you don't believe that, why do you allow them to cloud your logic to the point where it's even defensible?
And while I'm ranting, you don't need moisture indicator stickers. Is there corrosion? Is there evidence of arcing/shorts? Are there water stains or bits of debris? That's all you need. Instead, companies put bright stickers that change colors so that it looks impressive and irrefutable to customers and so they don't have to train their technicians to identify water damage.
It isn't just Apple, but companies love to follow Apple's lead in all the wrong ways, so if people don't start pushing back on these anti-consumer moves, we'll all end up trying to convince ourselves that notches on phones aren't the dumbest design choice of the last century. Anyways, sorry for ranting. The whole situation just bothers me.
Stop justifying their terrible policies. Their decisions are purely economic and magical thinking about technology lets them get away with it. A bent data pin on a connector doesn't lead to a catastrophic cascade of system-wide failures. If it does, then Apple shouldn't be making computers. I guarantee that at some point in the production line those connectors were heaped in a bucket. Maybe a standard bucket, but a bucket nonetheless.
Anecdote time. I got curious about some old PC parts I had in the basement and decided to throw them together. Motherboard, 1st gen Core 2 Duo (with heatsink and original thermal paste), Nvidia 6800GT, etc - pieces from 10+ years ago that I rode hard sat unprotected in a milk crate for over a decade and were moved across the country 3 times. I've been using them as a NAS for the last 6 months (powered 24/7) with no problems. It isn't even in a case. I use a scissors to short the power leads directly on the motherboard to boot it. And that's far from the first time I've janked a computer together.
Perhaps a better example, I volunteer regularly at a computer recycling place and regularly see 5+ year old laptops that were given to people that must have used them for fighting off bears and stirring soup. We clean em up, test em, and put them up for resale. Sure there are occasionally broken ones, but they're surprisingly rare. No one there has ever seen a computer even remotely resembling the condition of the Macbook brought in by the lady in Louis's follow up video.
If you really believe that a tiny dent in a corner of the chassis leads to irreparable, functional damage to an Apple computer, why on Earth would you continue to buy them? And if you don't believe that, why do you allow them to cloud your logic to the point where it's even defensible?
And while I'm ranting, you don't need moisture indicator stickers. Is there corrosion? Is there evidence of arcing/shorts? Are there water stains or bits of debris? That's all you need. Instead, companies put bright stickers that change colors so that it looks impressive and irrefutable to customers and so they don't have to train their technicians to identify water damage.
It isn't just Apple, but companies love to follow Apple's lead in all the wrong ways, so if people don't start pushing back on these anti-consumer moves, we'll all end up trying to convince ourselves that notches on phones aren't the dumbest design choice of the last century. Anyways, sorry for ranting. The whole situation just bothers me.
How does Apple win this game?
Louis Rossman is famous because he’s bloody good. Not many people are as good as he is.
How many Rossman’s would Apple need to employ? Where do they come from? Does Rossman want to work at Apple Doncaster, the store in the mall 20kms out of central Melbourne here in Australia? Didn’t think so.
If you’ve been in a store recently you know what it’s like. It’s madness in there. They must see a hundred people an hour, from people like us who know exactly what we want, to the elderly lady opposite me last time who was being taught, patiently, that it’s okay now to charge her phone overnight.
I’ve worked in support, I’ve done my time there, and the volume of support they must field boggles the mind. It’s very easy to criticise, especially a case like this, but think about it. How would you run it? You gonna employ 10,000 Rossmans and have them all out the back inspecting pins? It’s just not realistic.
As others have said here, the fact that you can walk in to a store* and have your thing fixed, often while you wait, often for free, is amazing. I think it’s amazing. It’s one of the many reasons I continue to buy Apple kit, despite cases like this one. Because what’s my better option? I don’t believe that I have one, because I don’t live within walking distance of Louis Rossman.
(*After making an appointment 3 days before.)
Louis Rossman is famous because he’s bloody good. Not many people are as good as he is.
How many Rossman’s would Apple need to employ? Where do they come from? Does Rossman want to work at Apple Doncaster, the store in the mall 20kms out of central Melbourne here in Australia? Didn’t think so.
If you’ve been in a store recently you know what it’s like. It’s madness in there. They must see a hundred people an hour, from people like us who know exactly what we want, to the elderly lady opposite me last time who was being taught, patiently, that it’s okay now to charge her phone overnight.
I’ve worked in support, I’ve done my time there, and the volume of support they must field boggles the mind. It’s very easy to criticise, especially a case like this, but think about it. How would you run it? You gonna employ 10,000 Rossmans and have them all out the back inspecting pins? It’s just not realistic.
As others have said here, the fact that you can walk in to a store* and have your thing fixed, often while you wait, often for free, is amazing. I think it’s amazing. It’s one of the many reasons I continue to buy Apple kit, despite cases like this one. Because what’s my better option? I don’t believe that I have one, because I don’t live within walking distance of Louis Rossman.
(*After making an appointment 3 days before.)
Rossman does depot-level repairs. They don't need 10,000 depots. They need a few. They could potentially have someone like him video or phone-linked to stores to answer tough questions (and very well may). They then need good policies and training for the frontline staff to sort out when something can be sent for repair and when it can't. It would also help if they revived SOS-APPL and started making parts easily available.
I suspect it wouldn't take much money at all for Apple to buy Rossman, drop him in a big NYC depot with a Jurassic Park-style viewing window for fanbois to watch things get fixed while he livestreams the repairs, and quickly turn this into a PR win. They could replicate that in several other large cities easily. Will they? Probably not.
I suspect it wouldn't take much money at all for Apple to buy Rossman, drop him in a big NYC depot with a Jurassic Park-style viewing window for fanbois to watch things get fixed while he livestreams the repairs, and quickly turn this into a PR win. They could replicate that in several other large cities easily. Will they? Probably not.
Must you ruin it with the “fanbois“ comment?
Are all the people currently watching him repair PCs on YouTube fanbois?
Are all the people currently watching him repair PCs on YouTube fanbois?
Sure. I'm a huge fan of "competent professionals doing professional things" youtube. My suggestions are a strange hodgepodge of HVAC repairs, electricians, welders, carpenters and other folks sharing their day-to-day job.
The first thing about this video is that the laptop malfunction was at lest shady to me. There is no way in which that pin would bend itself, unless another repair was previously made or it was actually bent on purpose.
The second thing - I think it might even be 'product placement', because the shop image and address are clearly explained in the video.
In my opinion there's nothing wrong here: Apple's employee saw that there is water damage, he concluded that he needed to replace that part. This is just process, that they need to follow. We can't force Apple to change their processes and strategies, especially if this means less profit. It is after all a business, that is built to make money.
The second thing - I think it might even be 'product placement', because the shop image and address are clearly explained in the video.
In my opinion there's nothing wrong here: Apple's employee saw that there is water damage, he concluded that he needed to replace that part. This is just process, that they need to follow. We can't force Apple to change their processes and strategies, especially if this means less profit. It is after all a business, that is built to make money.
Except that there was no actual water damage. I've bought some of that 3M material for some research experiments and it really shouldn't be used the way it is in electronics. It can turn red in humid environments. They're best used with things that are IPS rated like Pelican boxes, to assure rain isn't getting into them in an outdoor environment.
But if it can be tripped from humidity how can it be effective in pelican boxes...
> The first thing about this video is that the laptop malfunction was at lest shady to me.
Some reporters, when trying to track down illegitimate fees for car repairs, purposefully perform a trivial forced issue, such as a bent sparkplug ground electrode. These sorts of things should be trivial to diagnose.
Even if the CBC did this, which I am skeptical given the lineage of the CBC, it would still be an entirely valid exercise.
Some reporters, when trying to track down illegitimate fees for car repairs, purposefully perform a trivial forced issue, such as a bent sparkplug ground electrode. These sorts of things should be trivial to diagnose.
Even if the CBC did this, which I am skeptical given the lineage of the CBC, it would still be an entirely valid exercise.
The problem is not that Apple overcharges for repairs or misdiagnose issues. It's that they are trying to reduce the traditionally available alternative options a customer can take instead.
My MacBook Pro late 2011 model suffered from the GPU flaw less than a week after Apple's "free repair" window ended. This repair window only existed because apple failed to recognise it and a class action lawsuit resulted.
Even after a repair it's never truly fault free, due to refurbed motherboards being used.
That was the end of my relationship with apple.
Even after a repair it's never truly fault free, due to refurbed motherboards being used.
That was the end of my relationship with apple.
I was with you right up until the end; the "I had one bad incident with company X so I'll never buy from them again" is a really tiring thing to hear. This is akin to "I had a bad flight on Delta so I'm never flying with them again" Ok, I get it, you had a bad experience. That doesn't mean your next flight on Delta will be bad, or your next experience with an Apple product. You should demand more of Apple, and get the compensation you deserve. Other companies aren't better, though. Apple's hardware, customer satisfaction and general end-to-end experience, on the whole, is the best in the industry. Tossing them aside because of one bad experience with a hardware product feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
[edit] The repair process with Apple, in particular, is really spectacular. If you break your phone on vacation in Australia (like I did), you walk into an Apple store and 2 hours later you're off to the races. Try that with LG/Samsung/Huawei/HTC. Good luck even finding one of their stores. Do they have stores? You'll mail the product in I'd imagine, and weeks later, maybe, you'll get one back? Who pays for shipping again? If your laptop breaks, same deal. Anywhere in the world. Yes, it's not perfect. However, the idea that I can count on my Apple products no matter where I am or what I'm doing is worth the premium alone. Finally, for better or worse (or rather, for more expensive) Apple is pushing AppleCare+ to all laptops and phones, which means that accidental damage like this would be covered for a low, flat fee no matter what happened to your device.
I'm actually surprised you had issues with a refurb product. The thing about refurbs is, unlike new ones, they're individually tested.
I don't mind that they will only do complete repairs. What I do care about is them actively trying to hamper third-party repair shops and opposing right-to-repair legislation. That's not ok.
[edit] The repair process with Apple, in particular, is really spectacular. If you break your phone on vacation in Australia (like I did), you walk into an Apple store and 2 hours later you're off to the races. Try that with LG/Samsung/Huawei/HTC. Good luck even finding one of their stores. Do they have stores? You'll mail the product in I'd imagine, and weeks later, maybe, you'll get one back? Who pays for shipping again? If your laptop breaks, same deal. Anywhere in the world. Yes, it's not perfect. However, the idea that I can count on my Apple products no matter where I am or what I'm doing is worth the premium alone. Finally, for better or worse (or rather, for more expensive) Apple is pushing AppleCare+ to all laptops and phones, which means that accidental damage like this would be covered for a low, flat fee no matter what happened to your device.
I'm actually surprised you had issues with a refurb product. The thing about refurbs is, unlike new ones, they're individually tested.
I don't mind that they will only do complete repairs. What I do care about is them actively trying to hamper third-party repair shops and opposing right-to-repair legislation. That's not ok.
> You'll mail the product in I'd imagine, and weeks later, maybe, you'll get one back?
I took my MacBook Pro 2017 in for a keyboard replacement. The AASP had to mail it in to Apple. It's now on it's second week in Apple's custody.
> Apple is pushing AppleCare+ to all laptops and phones, which means that accidental damage like this would be covered for a low, flat fee no matter what happened to your device
The low, flat fee only applies to cracked screens. I have a cracked camera lens on my iPhone X (a $7 part), and Apple wants $500 for a whole device replacement.
I took my MacBook Pro 2017 in for a keyboard replacement. The AASP had to mail it in to Apple. It's now on it's second week in Apple's custody.
> Apple is pushing AppleCare+ to all laptops and phones, which means that accidental damage like this would be covered for a low, flat fee no matter what happened to your device
The low, flat fee only applies to cracked screens. I have a cracked camera lens on my iPhone X (a $7 part), and Apple wants $500 for a whole device replacement.
Not that this will make you feel better but the camera module (unless you’re suggesting they disassemble it, replace the glass, and glue it back together) has a raw part cost of $35. [1] Factoring in R&D, etc, a reasonable retail price would be closer to $70 than $7. Labor would easily be another $100-150. A “fair” price for this repair would be $200. I’m not defending Apple I’m just pointing out it’s not nearly as hyperbolic as you’re suggesting.
Sounds like the iPhone damage was accidental? Accidental damage can be covered by your rental or homeowners policy, and sometimes even your credit card for the first 90 days.
Yes, sometimes they have to send the laptops out and that is frustrating.
[1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/iphone-...
Sounds like the iPhone damage was accidental? Accidental damage can be covered by your rental or homeowners policy, and sometimes even your credit card for the first 90 days.
Yes, sometimes they have to send the laptops out and that is frustrating.
[1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/iphone-...
Just the glass is cracked, accidental damage. I had a guy in a stall in Hong Kong fix it. Took 30 minutes, cost $35
Definitely possible, however I don't think most people would accept that level of fix from Apple.
Which is why it would be nice if Apple could supply third party repair centers with official schematics, parts, etc...
All manufacturers are worser than Apple. I was trying to shop for an laptop/ultra book(who buys bulky products anymore) and was surprised at lack of competitive products to Apple's. Perhaps a decade back there were quality, high-end products from IBM and Sony which could rival Apple. Now you are stuck with low quality products with much lesser reliability than MacBook pros at a higher price point even for the same spec. Apple is sort of enjoying it. May be surface would make a difference.
Up until the very latest generation of Macs, Apple was behind every other manufacturer when it came to 8th gen Intel chips.
Dave2D has several videos before the most recent line-up telling people not to buy Apple laptops unless they needed specific Apple software as all the high end Dell, HP, Asus and MSI offerings had better hardware for more reasonable prices.
Even now, you can find a lot of gaming and content creator laptops that are just as good, and sometimes even cheaper than the current Apple laptops. For an i9, it doesn't matter who you pick, they're all throttled.
If you're getting an i9, you should really get a gaming laptop instead. There are several that are built with very good thermals and won't throttle (although you'll have to dig through Linus/Dave2D reviews to find the specific models) and that are great for video editing and rendering as well.
Dave2D has several videos before the most recent line-up telling people not to buy Apple laptops unless they needed specific Apple software as all the high end Dell, HP, Asus and MSI offerings had better hardware for more reasonable prices.
Even now, you can find a lot of gaming and content creator laptops that are just as good, and sometimes even cheaper than the current Apple laptops. For an i9, it doesn't matter who you pick, they're all throttled.
If you're getting an i9, you should really get a gaming laptop instead. There are several that are built with very good thermals and won't throttle (although you'll have to dig through Linus/Dave2D reviews to find the specific models) and that are great for video editing and rendering as well.
Usually when people talk about the very high quality of apple hardware they are rarely talking about the specs. But instead about build quality, software, integration, usability, etc.
As a practical example: I have been using a Macbooks for years and whenever I use something else I get disappointed by the small and terrible touchpads.
As a practical example: I have been using a Macbooks for years and whenever I use something else I get disappointed by the small and terrible touchpads.
The XPS 15 has the first non-Apple touchpad to impress me in 12 years. Tap heuristics aren't as nice as Apple, but definitely more than workable
Beside some softwares only exists on macOS, Dell and Lenovo (if not concerned about its Chinese background) makes good ultrabooks which is on-par with Macbook Pro these days.
Plus, repairability & without keyboard which would break on particle ingress.
Plus, repairability & without keyboard which would break on particle ingress.
In Apple's defense, the newest keyboards no longer suffer from the particle ingress issue, and they're genuinely more pleasant to type on.
[deleted]
Try Lenovo's service on Thinkpad sometime - its surprisingly good.
Ever look at Dell XPS 13 ?
This doesn't seem all that scammy to me. The genius bar person was forthright that they needed to replace the components because they have a full repair only policy and the water damage indicators were red. He was forthright that this wasn't necessarily the cause of the display issue. He also did hint at other repair shops in the end by saying that there were no other options "in terms of fixing it in the store".
The full repair only policy is not really a problem. Apple wants to make sure they give you back a functioning device, so people aren't walking around saying they got their Apple repaired and it's still broken (or breaks quickly afterwards).
The full repair only policy while actively trying to prevent third party repair services is a problem, as then you are preventing people from being able to repair only actual problems just because Apple wants to control its image, and you run into situations like this. Who cares if water indicators are tripped? There should be an options for someone to repair what's needed, and deal with further problems later if they crop up. Apple doesn't want to allow this.
> He also did hint at other repair shops in the end by saying that there were no other options "in terms of fixing it in the store".
That's not hinting at other options, that's just not outright lying when asked a direct question, which ends up revealing another option. That's a low bar to hit (and thankfully he did).
The full repair only policy while actively trying to prevent third party repair services is a problem, as then you are preventing people from being able to repair only actual problems just because Apple wants to control its image, and you run into situations like this. Who cares if water indicators are tripped? There should be an options for someone to repair what's needed, and deal with further problems later if they crop up. Apple doesn't want to allow this.
> He also did hint at other repair shops in the end by saying that there were no other options "in terms of fixing it in the store".
That's not hinting at other options, that's just not outright lying when asked a direct question, which ends up revealing another option. That's a low bar to hit (and thankfully he did).
You're arguing that it isn't "scammy" because the policy that Apple itself created sets a rigid structure that causes repairs to be more extensive and expensive? Essentially a policy replacing completely working components without testing them, because a 5c Liquid contact indicator said to.
This seems like a defense of the individual "Genius," since they can point at corporate/policy, rather than a defense of the policy itself which is what the video is about.
This seems like a defense of the individual "Genius," since they can point at corporate/policy, rather than a defense of the policy itself which is what the video is about.
I’ve been told otherwise; Is this full repair policy a “by-country” thinng?
Well, honestly, I've owned Apples for decades, and I was truly a fan, but between the touch bar madness and their lame repair policies, it's truly the EOL for me with it all. Thank goodness the Linux and Lenovo game has gotten so on point.
What “Touch Bar madness?” They put a Touch Bar. So what? Some of us actually love it. Some of us even use Vim and love it. Calling it “madness” is a bit hyperbolic. You certainly don’t have to like it, but people are acting like they removed the space bar.
One benefit of their “lame” repair policy is that it protects resell values because you can generally be assured some back-alley repair shop didn’t use an inferior part or fix something with shoddy workmarkship. With three year AppleCare and good resell values, Macs are great values. Ever tried to sell a 5 year old Dell? Pretty much paperweights after a few years in terms of resell value.
One benefit of their “lame” repair policy is that it protects resell values because you can generally be assured some back-alley repair shop didn’t use an inferior part or fix something with shoddy workmarkship. With three year AppleCare and good resell values, Macs are great values. Ever tried to sell a 5 year old Dell? Pretty much paperweights after a few years in terms of resell value.
Ebay doesn't corroborate the statement regarding Dell resale value: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=See-All-C...
I had same experience with an iPhone.
While Apple Store said it is a board failure and the only solution is replacing it with a refurbished or a new phone. I went to a repair shop. and it turns out that it is only a display problem and it was just 29$ to fix it.
It says in the video that the water indicators turned red. Under those circumstances it's customary for Apple Genius Bar to insist on full part replacements even if it's something simple like bending a pin.
More of a grey area than the clickbait title.
More of a grey area than the clickbait title.
The water indicators are more like humidity indicators. In a lot of climates they're going to be red within a few months of normal use.
Which all by itself seems like a class action just waiting to happen (i.e. the water indicator itself is defective resulting in hundreds of dollars or more in unnecessary repairs in many cases due to Apple repair policies)
Convenient policy for humidity indicators.
Doesn't change the fact that they want to kill third party repairs and then also refuse first party repairs.
Doesn't change the fact that they want to kill third party repairs and then also refuse first party repairs.
Man, Rossman's on a media blitz.
[deleted]
A laptop with a bent LCD backlight connector pin is taken to an Apple store. The staff notices that the humidity indicators have changed color, so warranty is voided. To fix it, they want to replace several boards and possibly the display, which will cost the user "over a thousand" and possibly more.
The user (CBC's The National) then takes the laptop to a third party repair shop (Louis Rossman's) that spots the problem in under a minute and, taking just one more minute, bends the pin back restoring full function to the laptop. Rossman then states that he normally wouldn't charge for such a quick fix.
--------------
We must ask how this happened. Rossman first shone a light through the Apple logo at the back of the monitor and was able to see a mouse pointer moving around, indicating that the computer and LCD panel are both functioning. This identified the backlight as a problem, and the first thing to check was, "is it plugged in?". It wasn't. Rossman has a simple procedure to follow that allows him to zero in on the problem.
Why wasn't Apple able to diagnose this problem similarly? Rossman is clearly a talented and dedicated individual. However, an Apple repair technician has the resources and training of a multi-billion dollar company behind him. Apple never even got as far as diagnosing the backlight as the problem. When faced with a monitor that doesn't come on properly, why isn't their first step similar to Rossman's?
To take the car analogy from the video a bit further, how many car owners stick to using the dealer to service their vehicles for the entire life of the car? Once the warranty has expired, there are usually cheaper and more competent options available. It's not uncommon for car owners to develop a long-term relationship with a mechanic they trust. As discussed later in this video, Apple legally harasses third party repairers and anyone importing proprietary parts. Would you buy a car from a company that tries to lock you into dealer service by suing your neighborhood mechanic or anyone who dares to import parts specific to their vehicles?