The Case for Rooms(citylab.com)
citylab.com
The Case for Rooms
https://www.citylab.com/design/2018/08/the-case-for-rooms/563216/
164 comments
> I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable.
When you have small kids:
- You want them away from boiling water, dropped knives, and dangerously hot ovens.
- You want them to keep sleeping even though you're vacuuming
- You might want to let them watch Baby Shark for the 1000th blasted time while leaving you out of it
- You might want to read a novel while they hold miniature My Little Pony melodramas
- You might want to start a project on a table, leave it alone for an hour (behind closed doors), then come back to it where you left it
- You might want to have adult conversations about adult subjects (death, money, parenting) without unprepared ears listening in
You probably do want to incorporate them into dining, family choices, and cooking, but only in controlled ways.
When you have small kids:
- You want them away from boiling water, dropped knives, and dangerously hot ovens.
- You want them to keep sleeping even though you're vacuuming
- You might want to let them watch Baby Shark for the 1000th blasted time while leaving you out of it
- You might want to read a novel while they hold miniature My Little Pony melodramas
- You might want to start a project on a table, leave it alone for an hour (behind closed doors), then come back to it where you left it
- You might want to have adult conversations about adult subjects (death, money, parenting) without unprepared ears listening in
You probably do want to incorporate them into dining, family choices, and cooking, but only in controlled ways.
> You want them away from boiling water, dropped knives, and dangerously hot ovens.
This sort of stuff is exactly why the separate kitchen doesn't work at our house. The kids want to be where they can see us, and, with the way our kitchen is set up, there's no way for them to do that without being underfoot. At the same time, we want to be able to keep at least a vague eye on them, and that's not not really possible if they're in a completely separate room.
Versus, when I was little, our house had a kitchen that was separated from the living room by a counter. Which things much easier: We could hang out in sight of Mom, Mom could keep an eyey on us, and we weren't creating a safety hazard (or hassle) just so long as we stayed on one side of the counter.
It's also a total PITA at dinner parties. These aren't the old days, where it was OK for one person (always the same person) to stay isolated in the kitchen for half the evening, and it was understood that it's a private space where guests aren't allowed. Instead we end up with more and more people congregating in the kitchen, socializing with the cook and then with each other, until eventually literally every guest is there, getting in the way of the cooking, and they all have to get kicked out so that we can open the oven safely. Then you're isolated for a little bit, until someone needs to get another beer from the fridge, and ends up staying in the kitchen to chat, and then another, and it slowly ramps up until a mildly dangerous cacophany again. Rinse and repeat until dinner is served.
This sort of stuff is exactly why the separate kitchen doesn't work at our house. The kids want to be where they can see us, and, with the way our kitchen is set up, there's no way for them to do that without being underfoot. At the same time, we want to be able to keep at least a vague eye on them, and that's not not really possible if they're in a completely separate room.
Versus, when I was little, our house had a kitchen that was separated from the living room by a counter. Which things much easier: We could hang out in sight of Mom, Mom could keep an eyey on us, and we weren't creating a safety hazard (or hassle) just so long as we stayed on one side of the counter.
It's also a total PITA at dinner parties. These aren't the old days, where it was OK for one person (always the same person) to stay isolated in the kitchen for half the evening, and it was understood that it's a private space where guests aren't allowed. Instead we end up with more and more people congregating in the kitchen, socializing with the cook and then with each other, until eventually literally every guest is there, getting in the way of the cooking, and they all have to get kicked out so that we can open the oven safely. Then you're isolated for a little bit, until someone needs to get another beer from the fridge, and ends up staying in the kitchen to chat, and then another, and it slowly ramps up until a mildly dangerous cacophany again. Rinse and repeat until dinner is served.
That's the unwritten rule of house parties.
Unless something absolutely amazing is happening in the living room, the smokers will be out back, a pair of introverts will be in the hallway, and everyone else will slowly gravitate towards the kitchen until everyone is in the way.
Unless something absolutely amazing is happening in the living room, the smokers will be out back, a pair of introverts will be in the hallway, and everyone else will slowly gravitate towards the kitchen until everyone is in the way.
This seems to be quite universal (at least in western countries?). I witnessed it so many times but I never found the reason/psychological mechanism which lead to this. Any idea?
I've seen this so many times. The introverts and smokers I can explain, but to this day I have no idea why people congregate in the kitchen even when there's nothing specific to draw them in there (food, etc.)
In nearly every other room of the house, you're meant to sit down. The kitchen is optimized for walking between appliances.
When the available seating is exhausted in the living room, it feels a bit strange to remain standing if everyone else is sitting, so you excuse yourself to the kitchen for another drink, where you find a number of other people standing and conversing. This feels less strange, so you don't see much point in going back to the living room.
Once everyone has made the inevitable trip to the kitchen to freshen up their beverage, and gets caught up in a conversation in the kitchen, the living room gradually becomes empty, and at that point, nobody wants to go sit alone in the living room and miss all the action happening in the kitchen.
When the available seating is exhausted in the living room, it feels a bit strange to remain standing if everyone else is sitting, so you excuse yourself to the kitchen for another drink, where you find a number of other people standing and conversing. This feels less strange, so you don't see much point in going back to the living room.
Once everyone has made the inevitable trip to the kitchen to freshen up their beverage, and gets caught up in a conversation in the kitchen, the living room gradually becomes empty, and at that point, nobody wants to go sit alone in the living room and miss all the action happening in the kitchen.
It's where the beer is.
There's just something enticing about watching home-cooking. It's better than any TV you've ever seen. If your subject is a better cook than you or has a much larger range of recipe comfort, watching their technique or process is really eye-opening. I love seeing what my friends do or don't do in the kitchen, always something to learn about.
It smells amazing too being near the action. Sight + smell getting stimulated all at once.
It smells amazing too being near the action. Sight + smell getting stimulated all at once.
Has been this way at every family party for at least 60 years, 40 odd ones of which i have been a part of. Eventually, everyone ends in the kitchen.
Just a small aside re: kids being underfoot -- our little 1.5yo loves to spend time with us in the kitchen and always wants to be in on the action on the counter. This was problematic until we built him a little tower[0] to climb up and see/do things. We still have to be very aware of where we leave things on the counter, but he absolutely loves climbing up and down the thing and has mostly learned by now not to touch the stove or "big knives".
[0] https://www.ana-white.com/woodworking-projects/little-helper...
[0] https://www.ana-white.com/woodworking-projects/little-helper...
Ha. Wait and see - in another 6 months he'll be using it a stepping stone to climb up onto the counter and get into stuff that used to be out of reach.
Then over time they graduate to moving silverware (dishwasher to tray, tray to table), washing/drying fresh produce, pouring their own water, mixing ingredients, etc. It starts with curiosity and a step stool (or "tower").
Though, some kids are easier than others to redirect.
Though, some kids are easier than others to redirect.
They graduate to moving silverware (dishwasher to trash, table to electrical outlet), stabbing/squishing fresh produce, pouring everybody's water, mixing ingredients (rice in the milk jug), etc.
Oh, that feeling of taking a drink of something opaque, and feeling unexpected solid items in your mouth...
Oh, that feeling of taking a drink of something opaque, and feeling unexpected solid items in your mouth...
Sounds like our kids could be great friends.
Hah! Thanks for the parody.
I was the opposite with my kids. I wanted to be able to do stuff in the kitchen while also keeping an eye on them in the living room.
Ymmv. mine are 5 & 7 and in the last 5 years I have had zero of those problems.
Yep. Different kids are different.
As are parents. Some of this might be introversion versus extraversion.
As are parents. Some of this might be introversion versus extraversion.
You might want to remember that next time you come in to a thread guns blazing in the 2nd person with the "wait til you have kids ;)" angle.
Mine is a terror and so are most kids. Kitchen accidents are SUPER common for little kids because the tend to look with their hands and pull on things like boiling pots of water.
IMHO having a cavalier attitude because nothing bad happened to you is not productive.
IMHO having a cavalier attitude because nothing bad happened to you is not productive.
Somehow, that is a very real and serious problem. I suppose it is possible because of wobbly little stove burners or super-slippery pans.
This happened to a friend's kid. He pulled down a pot of spaghetti, severely burning his penis. While the family is struggling to deal with the medical issue, Massachusetts starts an intrusive and accusatory investigation. Because of the location of the injury, the state made the assumption that there was sexual abuse.
This happened to a friend's kid. He pulled down a pot of spaghetti, severely burning his penis. While the family is struggling to deal with the medical issue, Massachusetts starts an intrusive and accusatory investigation. Because of the location of the injury, the state made the assumption that there was sexual abuse.
that's complete insanity, sorry to hear that. Nobody should go through that on top of the injury that's likely to make them feel like shit already.
I have kids and an open living and kitchen area.
For all the reasons you listed I want it open so I can keep an eye on the kids.
For all the reasons you listed I want it open so I can keep an eye on the kids.
I have an 8 month old and a kitchen separate from our living room. When I am cooking, he is forced to sit in a highchair. I wish he could be playing on the other side of the counter while I cook instead.
I once lived in a Tri-level with a very large and open kitchen. I also lived in a house with very big main rooms but a tiny kitchen.
The trouble is everyone congergrates in the kitchen! That's fine if it's nice and wide and has plenty of counter space, but awful if it's really tiny and the only means between the living room and the patio where your other friend is grilling.
I agree with other comments on how a dining room is kinda useless. If you have a big pot-luck, it feels more relaxed if people are just sitting in various rooms or outside with a paper plate on their lap .. and if it's just you and one other person, a couch works just fine.
The trouble is everyone congergrates in the kitchen! That's fine if it's nice and wide and has plenty of counter space, but awful if it's really tiny and the only means between the living room and the patio where your other friend is grilling.
I agree with other comments on how a dining room is kinda useless. If you have a big pot-luck, it feels more relaxed if people are just sitting in various rooms or outside with a paper plate on their lap .. and if it's just you and one other person, a couch works just fine.
> The trouble is everyone congergrates in the kitchen! That's fine if it's nice and wide and has plenty of counter space, but awful if it's really tiny and the only means between the living room and the patio where your other friend is grilling.
This is one of the many reasons why open floor plans aren't going anywhere. Even without the "entertaining" aspect, people still cook for their families.
I grew up in an early 1900s Coastal Victorian house. While my parents cooked dinner after work in our small kitchen, my brother and I would usually hang out under their feet an in the way. Playing in the living room or upstairs meant we didn't see them until dinner time.
I live in a modern "open concept" now. My wife and I cook dinner after work while the kids play in the dining or living room and nobody has to be forced into isolation. The high-flow If anybody wants alone time, there's a small office downstairs and bedrooms upstairs.
This is one of the many reasons why open floor plans aren't going anywhere. Even without the "entertaining" aspect, people still cook for their families.
I grew up in an early 1900s Coastal Victorian house. While my parents cooked dinner after work in our small kitchen, my brother and I would usually hang out under their feet an in the way. Playing in the living room or upstairs meant we didn't see them until dinner time.
I live in a modern "open concept" now. My wife and I cook dinner after work while the kids play in the dining or living room and nobody has to be forced into isolation. The high-flow If anybody wants alone time, there's a small office downstairs and bedrooms upstairs.
The rule of thumb is that people congregate where the food is. Since the food is usually made in the kitchen, that becomes the default location.
Is a relaxed pot-luck really always what you want, though? I love the ritual of sitting around a table sharing a meal with people you like. It doesn't have to be all fancy, but there's something about gathering together at one time in one place for a shared meal and conversation that does a lot to build and sustain a sense of friendship for me.
I'd really like to have a separate dining room in my house - in fact I've recently hired an architect to plan an extension off the back of the house that would add one!
I'd really like to have a separate dining room in my house - in fact I've recently hired an architect to plan an extension off the back of the house that would add one!
>I want to cook for an hour without being alone.
I'm the opposite. Nothing drives me up the wall more than people trying to talk to me when I'm trying to work, whether on a computer coding or in the kitchen cooking/baking. I can't concentrate at all when someone tries to talk to me. I can communicate, or I can cook/code, but I can't do both at the same time.
I'm the opposite. Nothing drives me up the wall more than people trying to talk to me when I'm trying to work, whether on a computer coding or in the kitchen cooking/baking. I can't concentrate at all when someone tries to talk to me. I can communicate, or I can cook/code, but I can't do both at the same time.
Cooking has always been a social thing to me - chopping vegetables for 20 minutes is a lot nicer when you have someone to talk to.
Chopping vegetables, yes. But when the fire is on, or there's a frying pan, I wish everyone would leave the kitchen. I don't want to be responsible for any burns or accidents. Now that I think about it, when I'm holding a sharp knife I also want everyone away. My fear is that a chatty guest who's not paying attention will walk into the point of my knife (and yes, because of that fear I'm constantly worrying about where the knife is pointed, but still... that's brain cycles I'm not able to spend on actually cooking).
Huh. I used to be 12 years old kid who was cooking his lunch and dinner while a 3 years old brother and 5 years old sister were in the room, with zero problems. Do you have a really tiny kitchen or what's the problem?
There are a lot of people talking in this thread about the dangers of cooking in a kitchen that make it sound like a cheesy infomercial...
"Scalding your loved ones? Tired of shutting the oven door on your cat? Isn't there a better way? Closed floor plans!"
I've got kids. My number one complaint about my house is that I am shut off from everyone when I try to cook.
"Scalding your loved ones? Tired of shutting the oven door on your cat? Isn't there a better way? Closed floor plans!"
I've got kids. My number one complaint about my house is that I am shut off from everyone when I try to cook.
I’m imagining something to do with frying bacon, tossing things in a wok, or transferring a cast-iron pan to the broiler. Or maybe even torching creme brûlée!
Not every cooking task is a nice, safe, contained-in-an-appliance chore. Sometimes you’re playing with open flames, hot oil, red-hot metal, and other delights that you wouldn’t generally imagine in the proximity of an infant.
Of course, only some cuisines have cooking tasks that look like that; this whole thread is people from different cultural culinary traditions talking past one-another because they have totally different ideas of what goes on in the kitchen.
Not every cooking task is a nice, safe, contained-in-an-appliance chore. Sometimes you’re playing with open flames, hot oil, red-hot metal, and other delights that you wouldn’t generally imagine in the proximity of an infant.
Of course, only some cuisines have cooking tasks that look like that; this whole thread is people from different cultural culinary traditions talking past one-another because they have totally different ideas of what goes on in the kitchen.
Yes but the GP has wrote that they even prefer different floor plans because of this very issue, pointing at its generality
Or do you think their regular everyday kitchen tasks are that different? I was also using frying pans to make steaks, fries, schnitzels, ... baking oven for strudels or chicken...
Or do you think their regular everyday kitchen tasks are that different? I was also using frying pans to make steaks, fries, schnitzels, ... baking oven for strudels or chicken...
I wouldn't trust 12-year old me with a knife or a frying pan. And 40+ year old me has cut and burnt himself enough times. And I know of enough terrifying accidents to be wary.
Also, yes, those of us living in apartments often have small kitchens.
Also, yes, those of us living in apartments often have small kitchens.
I also lived in a small-ish apartment (65 sqm for a family)
You were more skillful than me then, or less prone to accidents, or knew of fewer kitchen related accidents (I know a woman who had her face scarred for life when her mother accidentally splashed her with scalding water).
I know I wouldn't let 12 year old me handle a sharp knife or a frying pan.
I know I wouldn't let 12 year old me handle a sharp knife or a frying pan.
Eating for me is absolutely social, cooking, I wont say --like others, I like to be left alone in the kitchen, because I enjoy having someone there to banter with while I'm whisking the hollandaise but at the same time there's only so much "ope[1], lemme just reach around ya for the cayenne...ope, sorry lemme get by ya...ope watch the burner there, ope, ope" before having someone in the kitchen with you starts getting in the way.
But to each their own
---
[1] HN is a big crowd, so if the "ope" thing confused anyone reading this, behold: https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/May-2018/Ope-The-All-Pu...
But to each their own
---
[1] HN is a big crowd, so if the "ope" thing confused anyone reading this, behold: https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/May-2018/Ope-The-All-Pu...
I really liked the older home and apt I lived in as a kid that had a distinct kitchen. It could get messy and then cleaned all in one go when convenient. With a kitchen in view of an entire floor you want to keep it tidy at all times. It made much more sense to eat right after cooking and then clean at 8PM while watching something on TV. I also helped my mom aunt and grandma cook, certainly three-four people fit.
I've seen some open floorplan designs where the kitchen was still the focal point, but all the functional areas could be hidden, usually by some large sliding feature. This, I think, is the best of both worlds. You can cook and eat in the open kitchen then pile everything in the sink and slide it shut till you're ready to deal with it later.
> I want to cook for an hour without being alone.
Exactly my thoughts reading this. I would guess this author does not cook. Or has not done so in a closed isolating kitchen while family or friends chat happily just around a wall out of earshot.
Exactly my thoughts reading this. I would guess this author does not cook. Or has not done so in a closed isolating kitchen while family or friends chat happily just around a wall out of earshot.
> I would guess this author does not cook.
I believe you are correct:
Nothing is more maddening than trying to read or watch television in the tall-ceilinged living room with someone banging pots and pans or using the food processor 10 feet away in the open kitchen.
I was scratching my head while reading the article because my wife and I are looking to do the opposite and tear down the wall between the kitchen and the dining room. I happen to be the cook and for the same reasons as the GP, I enjoy being able to talk and converse while I'm cooking. I'm not interested in so-called "chef kitchens" to impress people, however I've put a lot of thought into optimizing the space I have. Small is good when there's only 1 cook. But that's a separate issue from the socializing aspect while cooking.
I believe you are correct:
Nothing is more maddening than trying to read or watch television in the tall-ceilinged living room with someone banging pots and pans or using the food processor 10 feet away in the open kitchen.
I was scratching my head while reading the article because my wife and I are looking to do the opposite and tear down the wall between the kitchen and the dining room. I happen to be the cook and for the same reasons as the GP, I enjoy being able to talk and converse while I'm cooking. I'm not interested in so-called "chef kitchens" to impress people, however I've put a lot of thought into optimizing the space I have. Small is good when there's only 1 cook. But that's a separate issue from the socializing aspect while cooking.
I cook almost every day for my family. I would say that half the time I wish I had a closed floor plan, and half the time I'm glad I have an open one. Here's the deal. Sometimes I want my kids to stay out from under my feet when I'm cooking, and I want to just listen to my podcasts or whatever. Other times, especially when friends are over, I'm really glad I have an open plan kitchen.
Speaking as someone with a closed kitchen and small kids: the closed kitchen doesn't keep the kids out from under my feet while cooking unless my wife is home to watch them.
Otherwise, they are under my feet because they want to be near me and talk to me and get my attention. I can't just close the kitchen door and ignore a toddler. This happens much more than in our previous open-kitchen apartment, because they could get my attention from the couch or living room floor while I was cooking.
Otherwise, they are under my feet because they want to be near me and talk to me and get my attention. I can't just close the kitchen door and ignore a toddler. This happens much more than in our previous open-kitchen apartment, because they could get my attention from the couch or living room floor while I was cooking.
Oh, yeah, that's to be expected. My kids invade the kitchen even when my wife is home, though. I feel like if I were out of sight that might happen less often. But maybe I'm wrong.
Cooking is kind of a necessary chore to me, so having the opportunity to chat with other guests and not feel left out is a must for me.
I wonder if this is a cultural thing.
Because cooking has turned into something social somehow, people don’t want to be isolated in the kitchen any more.
But in the past, someone walking into the kitchen while you were cooking would probably have been akin to them walking in on you in the toilet (“What!? No, I don’t want them to see the dinner until it’s actually done!”).
Because cooking has turned into something social somehow, people don’t want to be isolated in the kitchen any more.
But in the past, someone walking into the kitchen while you were cooking would probably have been akin to them walking in on you in the toilet (“What!? No, I don’t want them to see the dinner until it’s actually done!”).
> Because cooking has turned into something social somehow ...
This comment boggles the mind. I would wager that probably for thousands of years, cooking has been a communal (if perhaps gendered, good riddance) affair, and only with the advent of the unemployed housewife of the 50s suddenly the kitchen is seen as this private affair.
But i guess i'm the wrong person to be commenting, because generally i'm no fan of all this extreme individualism :)
This comment boggles the mind. I would wager that probably for thousands of years, cooking has been a communal (if perhaps gendered, good riddance) affair, and only with the advent of the unemployed housewife of the 50s suddenly the kitchen is seen as this private affair.
But i guess i'm the wrong person to be commenting, because generally i'm no fan of all this extreme individualism :)
>But in the past, someone walking into the kitchen while you were cooking would probably have been akin to them walking in on you in the toilet
Depends on how far in the past, and where.
In the USSR, kitchen has always been the place where people would end up spending a long time talking about whatever.
There is even a phrase "kitchen conversations", which would mean talking politics (without regard to what the Party says).
And, of course, the Kitchen was the social hub in the communal flats (living with roommates, Soviet-style). There usually would be no common area in a communal flat other than the kitchen.
Depends on how far in the past, and where.
In the USSR, kitchen has always been the place where people would end up spending a long time talking about whatever.
There is even a phrase "kitchen conversations", which would mean talking politics (without regard to what the Party says).
And, of course, the Kitchen was the social hub in the communal flats (living with roommates, Soviet-style). There usually would be no common area in a communal flat other than the kitchen.
> I would guess this author does not cook
Exactly the opposite. People with open floor plans don't cook every day, otherwise their home will smell like a cheap restaurant, unless they got used to it.
My parents have an open plan, i don't. My home smells fresh every day (except kitchen) despite cooking every day, their house, smells like food in every corner because the smell impregnates in every material(especially in the winter) and is very hard to get it out.
Exactly the opposite. People with open floor plans don't cook every day, otherwise their home will smell like a cheap restaurant, unless they got used to it.
My parents have an open plan, i don't. My home smells fresh every day (except kitchen) despite cooking every day, their house, smells like food in every corner because the smell impregnates in every material(especially in the winter) and is very hard to get it out.
This must mean the fans aren’t powerful enough which seems strange if the house is reasonably modern. I once lived in a place with no proper duct to the outside at all (just a fan with a filter but recycling air) and in that place I avoided frying anything. If course no fan is perfect and if I’m frying something it will be noticeable in adjacent rooms, but I want the smell of cooking to be noticed in the house. It’s usually a positive thing. It does disappear again. If I hated it I’d rather buy a more powerful fan than have a kitchen door.
I cook nearly every day. I have an open floor plan. My house does not smell like a restaurant. You just have to use a vent when things smoke and, you know, clean.
I admit I'm a little bit confused by the constant refrain of "people want to be protected from cooking smells". I'm arriving at the conclusion that "cooking smells" is actually a euphemism for badly designed/insufficiently exhausted kitchens.
Because it's a distinct minority that I've ever encountered who proclaims: "drat, is that freshly baked bread and pastries, how disgusting! and freshly ground coffee, ewww, can't stand that, and stir fry that we love, absolute vomit! citruses, again!?"
what are people doing that food smells are listed as a negative connotation?
Because it's a distinct minority that I've ever encountered who proclaims: "drat, is that freshly baked bread and pastries, how disgusting! and freshly ground coffee, ewww, can't stand that, and stir fry that we love, absolute vomit! citruses, again!?"
what are people doing that food smells are listed as a negative connotation?
Bit of a ridiculous statement to say no-one with an open kitchen cooks every day.
I agree; an open kitchen caters to the pleasure of cooking alone, or at most with family and close friends you don't being less than elegant in front of, not the pressure of entertaining.
I think there's an element of class-based bravado in many modern houses. Huge windows without curtains, open floor plans, these send a message that your life doesn't have any mess that you need to hide from the world. You can live every aspect of your life in perfect comfort without giving a thought to who is watching, because all they would see is how elegant and attractive your life is.
There's also an elevation of the social and a deprecation of individual activity. The author points out that it's hell to try to read or watch a movie while someone is using a food processor twenty feet away, but that scenario is not part of the perfect showroom lifestyle. In the ideal life, people within earshot of each other are engaged in sparkling conversation. Solitude can perhaps be engaged in stylishly, but two people not speaking to each other because they're each absorbed in their own thing is a bit gross, or at the very least, less than perfect, and therefore it's not properly aspirational to ask your home to cater to it.
I think there's an element of class-based bravado in many modern houses. Huge windows without curtains, open floor plans, these send a message that your life doesn't have any mess that you need to hide from the world. You can live every aspect of your life in perfect comfort without giving a thought to who is watching, because all they would see is how elegant and attractive your life is.
There's also an elevation of the social and a deprecation of individual activity. The author points out that it's hell to try to read or watch a movie while someone is using a food processor twenty feet away, but that scenario is not part of the perfect showroom lifestyle. In the ideal life, people within earshot of each other are engaged in sparkling conversation. Solitude can perhaps be engaged in stylishly, but two people not speaking to each other because they're each absorbed in their own thing is a bit gross, or at the very least, less than perfect, and therefore it's not properly aspirational to ask your home to cater to it.
> two people not speaking to each other because they're each absorbed in their own thing is a bit gross
First, none of what follows is applicable for people who are absorbed in their own thing even though they're near each other because they can't afford separate rooms. In that case, you do what you have to do.
But if we choose to be in the same room together, shouldn't we interact with each other rather than being absorbed in our own things? Otherwise, why not go to our own rooms?
Mind you, I'm an introvert. And most of the time, I merely tolerate family gatherings, even though I choose to fly back home to spend time with my family. (I'm single and currently living in a tech hub, across the country from my family.) But I try to participate, at least a little. And I generally don't put my earbuds on until I've spent my time with the family and go back to being alone.
First, none of what follows is applicable for people who are absorbed in their own thing even though they're near each other because they can't afford separate rooms. In that case, you do what you have to do.
But if we choose to be in the same room together, shouldn't we interact with each other rather than being absorbed in our own things? Otherwise, why not go to our own rooms?
Mind you, I'm an introvert. And most of the time, I merely tolerate family gatherings, even though I choose to fly back home to spend time with my family. (I'm single and currently living in a tech hub, across the country from my family.) But I try to participate, at least a little. And I generally don't put my earbuds on until I've spent my time with the family and go back to being alone.
Because doing your own thing together is still much better than doing it on your own?
Depends on what you're doing, I guess. If you're wearing headphones, that makes it harder for the other person to get your attention. That seems to annoy my mother sometimes when my father is wearing headphones and listening to music while sitting in their living room.
A disadvantage of open kitchens is that while they look cool, the smells can invade your house. Have you tried grilling something on the stove? Unless you have a powerful smoke extractor (sorry, don't know what they are called in English) you'll smoke up your living room, which is always nasty. Closing the door (plus an average smoke extractor) will help a lot.
I think the phrase you want is "exhaust hood" (also known as a "range hood" or "kitchen hood", or more colloquially just a "vent").
I've lived in a fairly wide range of housing (although all in the US) over the years, with a wide range of kitchen layouts. I've never lived in (nor come to think of it can I recall ever encountering) a kitchen with a door.
Right, I live in South America and since childhood kitchens with doors were the norm. Only in relatively recent years has the "open floor plan" become fashionable, and open kitchens have become trendy. They are a selling point for trendy young people, and I do agree open kitchens look nice. Many come to regret it when they want to grill a steak and end up smoking up the house.
it's not just the smell. smoke from cooking is a leading cause of lung irritants in the home. always try to exhaust it if possible (filtering is a distant second in effectiveness, apparently).
I see this comment all over. What are you people cooki g that you would not want to smell? Good cooking smells devine!
Fish sauce smells horrible when you first add it to a pan, curry paste and peppers release a bit of tear gas when heating up.
Steak smells awful in your hair, clothes and drapes. The smoke blackens everything.
Fish smells nice on the plate and awful everywhere else.
Broccoli, etc.
Fish smells nice on the plate and awful everywhere else.
Broccoli, etc.
Open floor plans make better and worse use of space. One space can serve many functions, so that's a gain.
But when you eliminate a wall, you eliminate a place to put bookcases and such. One of the rules in making the most of a small space is "go vertical". Walls help you do that. So that's a loss for open plans.
But when you eliminate a wall, you eliminate a place to put bookcases and such. One of the rules in making the most of a small space is "go vertical". Walls help you do that. So that's a loss for open plans.
You can put up shelves in the middle of an open space. I've done that before to divide a finished basement room into "office" and "bedroom" sections. I'm a big fan of double-sided shelves like the Ikea Expedit/Kallax lines, but anything will do.
Open space gives you the option of dividing it up as you like. A fixed wall makes the decision for you.
Open space gives you the option of dividing it up as you like. A fixed wall makes the decision for you.
I kinda like half-height bookshelves and the like to create partitions without losing that sense of openness. In our new place I'm putting a set of half-height cabinets behind the couch to partition off the "living area" from the kitchen/dining area.
I have moved at least 15 times by now and the more places I lived in and saw from others, the more I became convinced that open kitchens are the new schmalz of interior architecture that someday hopefully a new Bauhau-esque change of directions will eradicate.
Some points:
- I don't want the smell in my living room
- Kids: It's good to be able to keep them distanced if needed. If they want to participate in cooking, there's https://www.puckdaddy.de/de/entdeckerturm/
- It clutters the interior design as your living room is always going to offer you a view of used dishes, open food packaging and kitchen utilities (Dare I say it's anti-zen?)
- living room is unusable noise-wise, when open kitchen is in use
- I don't want my guest to see every faux pas that happens in the kitchen.
- Energy usage
That's the practical stuff where the open design falls short. But what annoys me philosophically about them is that there's this cultural delusion: that you're going to have a house party every time you eat. Or that people want to see me cooking, because I'm really good at it.
My experience is, that most open kitchen users just don't cook that much (and dine out instead), so they don't recognize the flaws. And they don't recognize that using "a lot less space" also means that you're probably getting less space sold in the first place. Both of these points illustrate how the open kitchen was something that affluents, especially younger ones were prone to. Just the right peer group to cheer the rest of society into believing that this is something desirable.
Cooking is not a chore, true, not just. But in reality it is a lot of times – and that's perfectly fine!
PS: That's of course subjective. Hopefully my counter position to yours is not taken as offensive.
Some points:
- I don't want the smell in my living room
- Kids: It's good to be able to keep them distanced if needed. If they want to participate in cooking, there's https://www.puckdaddy.de/de/entdeckerturm/
- It clutters the interior design as your living room is always going to offer you a view of used dishes, open food packaging and kitchen utilities (Dare I say it's anti-zen?)
- living room is unusable noise-wise, when open kitchen is in use
- I don't want my guest to see every faux pas that happens in the kitchen.
- Energy usage
That's the practical stuff where the open design falls short. But what annoys me philosophically about them is that there's this cultural delusion: that you're going to have a house party every time you eat. Or that people want to see me cooking, because I'm really good at it.
My experience is, that most open kitchen users just don't cook that much (and dine out instead), so they don't recognize the flaws. And they don't recognize that using "a lot less space" also means that you're probably getting less space sold in the first place. Both of these points illustrate how the open kitchen was something that affluents, especially younger ones were prone to. Just the right peer group to cheer the rest of society into believing that this is something desirable.
Cooking is not a chore, true, not just. But in reality it is a lot of times – and that's perfectly fine!
PS: That's of course subjective. Hopefully my counter position to yours is not taken as offensive.
Hmm, I never thought about that - I love being in the kitchen by myself, I usually close the door to the family room, but I can see that at other times it would be nice to not be alone. Big sliding doors might be a good compromise.
Incidentally, that compromise is one of the reasons why triple-deckers in the Northeast often have double doors between the large rooms in the house. (It's really nice when they're pocket doors, too, and they just slide into the wall.)
Why not both?
Personally, a combined cooking/living space is desirable for exactly the reasons you mentioned. However a separate dining room, and perhaps another room for "entertaining" (think a "den" or similar room) is also desirable to me.
Personally, a combined cooking/living space is desirable for exactly the reasons you mentioned. However a separate dining room, and perhaps another room for "entertaining" (think a "den" or similar room) is also desirable to me.
living in a goshiwon in korea, and a japanese sharehouse, I went from having this attitude, to being horrified that I would have to interact with people and have to wait and stand there idly while pretending to check my cellphone or something waiting for them to be finished. Maybe it was the culture but I just went from being so friendly to so awkward.
To the point that I would be aware of footsteps and time my exits so that I would not have to interact with other room dwellers.. It didnt feel like that in college dorms
To the point that I would be aware of footsteps and time my exits so that I would not have to interact with other room dwellers.. It didnt feel like that in college dorms
The historical context portion of the article is interesting and well written, but the critique of the open-concept layout at the end seemed rushed and unconvincing.
Anyone here who lives in a modern open-concept house care to comment?
I currently live with my wife, 3 children and 2 dogs in a 1200 square foot split level and we all dream of a big open-concept house some day... but apparently some people are getting tired of theirs and adding walls back in?
https://www.philly.com/philly/news/open-floor-plan-fixer-upp...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/realestate/im-over-open-c...
Anyone here who lives in a modern open-concept house care to comment?
I currently live with my wife, 3 children and 2 dogs in a 1200 square foot split level and we all dream of a big open-concept house some day... but apparently some people are getting tired of theirs and adding walls back in?
https://www.philly.com/philly/news/open-floor-plan-fixer-upp...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/12/realestate/im-over-open-c...
I grew up in a house that looks like the first picture in the article ("An open-concept house in Massachusetts in 2005"). To me it always felt more like a hotel than a home, and the way sound traveled was horrible. You couldn't watch TV or talk in the family room at any reasonable volume without disturbing whoever was trying to sleep. It also seemed like a ridiculous waste of space. Instead of those high ceilings we could've had 2-3 more rooms.
There was also a constant battle between the family room and the living room, which housed the piano. The person watching TV would turn up the volume to hear over the piano, then the person playing piano would play a little louder so they could hear over the TV, and this would continue until both were shouting at each other.
Open concept homes look great in pictures but they're terrible to live in, imo.
There was also a constant battle between the family room and the living room, which housed the piano. The person watching TV would turn up the volume to hear over the piano, then the person playing piano would play a little louder so they could hear over the TV, and this would continue until both were shouting at each other.
Open concept homes look great in pictures but they're terrible to live in, imo.
Yes, I grew up in a house with an open floor plan for the first floor and open for the basement too. I never felt like I had any privacy because I could basically hear everything in the house at all times. Never had friends over in my teenage years because the way it was set up, there was no way to spend time with friends without my mom hearing everything
[deleted]
I live in a mostly open concept. You walk in the front door and have a large area living, dining, and kitchen. A couple rooms/small hallway on one side and master on the other. I think it's great. I can cook and clean and still hold a conversation or casually watch whatever is on TV at the same time. When people come over there is enough space for everyone to be in the same space.
Appliances like dishwashers are very quiet now, so running them is not an issue. And in general, when I cook I'm not banging pots and pans the whole time.
Walling off rooms would make me want to cook less since it would be imposed separation from everything else going on.
Appliances like dishwashers are very quiet now, so running them is not an issue. And in general, when I cook I'm not banging pots and pans the whole time.
Walling off rooms would make me want to cook less since it would be imposed separation from everything else going on.
I've lived in multiple open-concept homes. They can be done well. But in many ways, I've come to see an open concept layout as an inefficient use of space.
There are two factors:
- Area / Perimeter ratio. If a room is too large, it's tough to use space efficiently. In open-concept rooms, there is limited space on the walls for traditional bookcases, art, buffet tables, etc. Of course you can still use the space, but you can usually fit more furniture when you have more walls (up to a point, then the inefficiency swings the other way).
- Privacy. Depending on how many people live in your house, a single large room may not offer enough privacy and noise exclusion as a day to day living space. Therefore, even if you have an open layout, you usually also want other more private and cozy rooms (e.g. a separate family room or den).
My conclusion is that an open layout is fine, but shouldn't be the be-all and end-all public living space in your home. If you have a 2k+ square foot house with an open layout and another separate living space, I think most people will be happy with that. For a single person/couple, having the extra living space might not be needed.
There are two factors:
- Area / Perimeter ratio. If a room is too large, it's tough to use space efficiently. In open-concept rooms, there is limited space on the walls for traditional bookcases, art, buffet tables, etc. Of course you can still use the space, but you can usually fit more furniture when you have more walls (up to a point, then the inefficiency swings the other way).
- Privacy. Depending on how many people live in your house, a single large room may not offer enough privacy and noise exclusion as a day to day living space. Therefore, even if you have an open layout, you usually also want other more private and cozy rooms (e.g. a separate family room or den).
My conclusion is that an open layout is fine, but shouldn't be the be-all and end-all public living space in your home. If you have a 2k+ square foot house with an open layout and another separate living space, I think most people will be happy with that. For a single person/couple, having the extra living space might not be needed.
I'm always torn about this. My girlfriend and I (no kids) just bought a 1050 sq. ft. house in a very dense area and the biggest problem with separate rooms/separate spaces is square footage--it's hard to do that without making it feel really cramped. And that's just with two of us and two dogs.
We ended up taking out all of the walls on the first floor to create a large kitchen/living/dining space and it feels so much larger and more pleasant than it did beforehand when there was a (small) kitchen, a (small) living room, and a (small) third room that was probably being used as a dining room. If you live somewhere where square footage is cheap--although, growing up in such a place, heating and air conditioning might not be!--I can see the appeal. But urban life puts some severe constraints on space and more open plans seems to make it more pleasant as well as more usable, at least for me. I don't know if I'd want to go back.
(Though, at the same time, I really value having an office with a door that I can close. That too is important!)
We ended up taking out all of the walls on the first floor to create a large kitchen/living/dining space and it feels so much larger and more pleasant than it did beforehand when there was a (small) kitchen, a (small) living room, and a (small) third room that was probably being used as a dining room. If you live somewhere where square footage is cheap--although, growing up in such a place, heating and air conditioning might not be!--I can see the appeal. But urban life puts some severe constraints on space and more open plans seems to make it more pleasant as well as more usable, at least for me. I don't know if I'd want to go back.
(Though, at the same time, I really value having an office with a door that I can close. That too is important!)
I had a condo that was 1200 sqft. but it was 2 floors, each floor being 600 sqft. The bottom was open: kitchen, dining, living room. The top floor had a bathroom, laundry and small bedrooms. It really worked well. With the downstairs being one room with 600 sqft. wide open it felt large and spacious, sociable. Upstairs was more functional (as in you didn't spend much time there) but also made it cozy enough to retreat or read if you wanted. EDIT: having large window and minimalist furniture helps.
I live in a house with an open plan and the author of that article couldn't be more wrong about my preferences. An open concept is key to making a house usable to me.
Now, I do like it if it's not the case that my dirty dishes are literally the first thing you see from literally everywhere in the non-bedroom, non-bathroom parts of the house. Modern SF remodels often have a kitchen that has no separation of any kind from the living/dining areas, and that's not ideal. I am not a domestic god, I do often have mess in my kitchen.
But going from there to a fully walled-off kitchen, even if it has doorways instead of doors, is even worse. In any social event, someone is going to be in the kitchen some significant amount of time. Some significant amount of the time I spend just hanging out with my family is me cooking or cleaning in the kitchen. I don't want enforced isolation during those times.
Plus, a little nudge to not let mess pile up in your kitchen is a good thing.
In my ideal house, the kitchen is open to the living/dining across a wall or archway, but has its own nook that it retreats back into so that you can at least not have everything in the kitchen be front-and-center all the time.
Dining rooms per se are even worse than closed-off kitchens. They're a big waste of visual space. I am not Victorian, I do not have big formal sit-down dinner parties. Most of the entertaining or hanging-out space is the kitchen and living room, the dining room should be as fungible with that as possible.
Now, I do like it if it's not the case that my dirty dishes are literally the first thing you see from literally everywhere in the non-bedroom, non-bathroom parts of the house. Modern SF remodels often have a kitchen that has no separation of any kind from the living/dining areas, and that's not ideal. I am not a domestic god, I do often have mess in my kitchen.
But going from there to a fully walled-off kitchen, even if it has doorways instead of doors, is even worse. In any social event, someone is going to be in the kitchen some significant amount of time. Some significant amount of the time I spend just hanging out with my family is me cooking or cleaning in the kitchen. I don't want enforced isolation during those times.
Plus, a little nudge to not let mess pile up in your kitchen is a good thing.
In my ideal house, the kitchen is open to the living/dining across a wall or archway, but has its own nook that it retreats back into so that you can at least not have everything in the kitchen be front-and-center all the time.
Dining rooms per se are even worse than closed-off kitchens. They're a big waste of visual space. I am not Victorian, I do not have big formal sit-down dinner parties. Most of the entertaining or hanging-out space is the kitchen and living room, the dining room should be as fungible with that as possible.
We just bought a house, it was recently renovated and basically all of the walls in the kitchen/dining/living rooms were removed, and it sat on the market for a long time compared to similarly priced houses in the area. Based on location and everything else, the only thing we could conclude was that people don't like open floor plans as much as HGTV would lead us to believe, but it's awesome for us.
Our major complaint about every apartment we've ever lived in is that half the square footage is hidden in bedrooms no one ever spends time in. We have small children, and apartment buildings were generally quite reluctant to rent us less space than they thought we needed, but we generally chose apartments based on how big the living/kitchen area was. Given the choice between a 1,500 sq ft 2 bedroom with a 1,200 sq ft living room, and a 2,000 sq ft 4 bedroom with a 600 sq ft living room, we'll take the 2 bedroom all day, because we spend all of our time in the main space together, and we only sleep in the bedrooms. Having open space where we can all be together is massively important to our quality of life. (Naturally this will probably change as the kids get older...)
Somewhat related, when I was growing up, all of the families in our friend group tended to congregate at one family's house. They had the biggest house by far, but what I find funny in retrospect is that everyone's homes were laid out the same way, but the big house was SO much bigger, that even the compartmentalized rooms ended up feeling like an open floor plan.
People seem to subconsciously want a kitchen and a dining room and a sitting room and a living room like Downton Abbey, but they don't notice that each room in Downton Abbey is the size of a small gymnasium. At least from my perspective, it's better to have one room like that, than to try and cram all of the other rooms into a too small space.
Reading back over this, I realize I sound very opinionated, and I suppose that's because I am! Sometimes I go into a house and I just can't believe how someone could make a whole 2,000 sq ft feel so small and cramped.
Our major complaint about every apartment we've ever lived in is that half the square footage is hidden in bedrooms no one ever spends time in. We have small children, and apartment buildings were generally quite reluctant to rent us less space than they thought we needed, but we generally chose apartments based on how big the living/kitchen area was. Given the choice between a 1,500 sq ft 2 bedroom with a 1,200 sq ft living room, and a 2,000 sq ft 4 bedroom with a 600 sq ft living room, we'll take the 2 bedroom all day, because we spend all of our time in the main space together, and we only sleep in the bedrooms. Having open space where we can all be together is massively important to our quality of life. (Naturally this will probably change as the kids get older...)
Somewhat related, when I was growing up, all of the families in our friend group tended to congregate at one family's house. They had the biggest house by far, but what I find funny in retrospect is that everyone's homes were laid out the same way, but the big house was SO much bigger, that even the compartmentalized rooms ended up feeling like an open floor plan.
People seem to subconsciously want a kitchen and a dining room and a sitting room and a living room like Downton Abbey, but they don't notice that each room in Downton Abbey is the size of a small gymnasium. At least from my perspective, it's better to have one room like that, than to try and cram all of the other rooms into a too small space.
Reading back over this, I realize I sound very opinionated, and I suppose that's because I am! Sometimes I go into a house and I just can't believe how someone could make a whole 2,000 sq ft feel so small and cramped.
> Anyone here who lives in a modern open-concept house care to comment?
A continuous kitchen/dining/living space was a hard requirement for me when searching for a new place. It has nothing to do with "entertaining", and everything to do with not having walls between people, as well as making the space feel so much larger.
I like being able to look all the way from the kitchen into the living room, and have a comfortable conversation while cooking.
(That said, I don't want that space joined with the entryway; I want to have a foyer, then walk through an archway into a huge open living space.)
A continuous kitchen/dining/living space was a hard requirement for me when searching for a new place. It has nothing to do with "entertaining", and everything to do with not having walls between people, as well as making the space feel so much larger.
I like being able to look all the way from the kitchen into the living room, and have a comfortable conversation while cooking.
(That said, I don't want that space joined with the entryway; I want to have a foyer, then walk through an archway into a huge open living space.)
Moved to Colorado 4 years ago and open concept was unavoidable... It sucks 88% of the time. The only win is holidays and even then with nothing to break up the sound you're one loud conversation in the other "room" away from forced participation. And then there's meal prep... A kitchen is loud heaven forbid there's a quiet moment on a show the same time someone wants some ice in a cup.
I grew up in a small house in the 90's that was essentially open concept, the small galley kitchen was isolated to one side like a small hallway opposite from the bedroom hallway. But could still see the open space.
Good things:
1. It is nice for entertaining.
2. Easier to keep an eye on children.
3. Flexibility to layout.
---
Issues:
1. How often do you really entertain? Not counting family visits, way less often than you think.
2. You will always be on top of other people. Examples see [2a]
3. Less flexibility than you think, tables and chairs still have to go somewhere.
4. Nowadays it is extremely popular to put a half bath in the large space. I don't like listening to people potty, I don't like being listened to while I potty, and potty smells can linger.
5. Do you like to clean? People today don't just drop by like they used to, a shame really, but any time you think people might be coming by, even just to drop off a small item, the whole area needs to be picked up. When you have separate rooms, you can quickly pile things into that area that your visitors wont see, not so with open concept.
6. Surprise parties are now harder to pull off.
---
[2a] - Say you have company down, and only want to talk to some of them, like when the women want to talk separate from the men. You want to do homework and have a quiet area. You want to read, your kids want to watch the same episode of Mickey Mouse Club House Again. You want to watch the big game, she wants to watch her "stories". You have two teenagers who like to fight for attention, can't separate them far enough with an open space.
Good things:
1. It is nice for entertaining.
2. Easier to keep an eye on children.
3. Flexibility to layout.
---
Issues:
1. How often do you really entertain? Not counting family visits, way less often than you think.
2. You will always be on top of other people. Examples see [2a]
3. Less flexibility than you think, tables and chairs still have to go somewhere.
4. Nowadays it is extremely popular to put a half bath in the large space. I don't like listening to people potty, I don't like being listened to while I potty, and potty smells can linger.
5. Do you like to clean? People today don't just drop by like they used to, a shame really, but any time you think people might be coming by, even just to drop off a small item, the whole area needs to be picked up. When you have separate rooms, you can quickly pile things into that area that your visitors wont see, not so with open concept.
6. Surprise parties are now harder to pull off.
---
[2a] - Say you have company down, and only want to talk to some of them, like when the women want to talk separate from the men. You want to do homework and have a quiet area. You want to read, your kids want to watch the same episode of Mickey Mouse Club House Again. You want to watch the big game, she wants to watch her "stories". You have two teenagers who like to fight for attention, can't separate them far enough with an open space.
I live in a 2100 square foot house and the living room, dining room, and kitchen are all the same giant room. We got the house mostly because of this room, because it allows us to keep tabs on our two little ones pretty easily. We don’t make great use of the other 1000 square feet. It was more an issue of “we want to live in this nice neighborhood” so we bought too much house. I really wish I could have bought a 1200 square footer in a safe neighborhood but where I live in flyover country that’s just not how it works.
Family of 3 in a 2100 sq.ft. open concept house.
We have one wall the adds separation between a family room and the dining place, and we're in the process of adding a hole in it (though the reason is increased light.)
In general: we love it.
The article is right about the enormous energy inefficiency of it all. We have no way to separate living room/dining room/kitchen/family room from each other, so we're heating the whole thing in the winter.
It's also true that sounds travels everywhere, but in our case, with only 1 kid, that's not a problem.
We have one wall the adds separation between a family room and the dining place, and we're in the process of adding a hole in it (though the reason is increased light.)
In general: we love it.
The article is right about the enormous energy inefficiency of it all. We have no way to separate living room/dining room/kitchen/family room from each other, so we're heating the whole thing in the winter.
It's also true that sounds travels everywhere, but in our case, with only 1 kid, that's not a problem.
I happily live in an old cottage with lots of small rooms. I like it that way because there's some privacy and always a quiet space to go to. I have a friend who has knocked through their ground floor and now it's impossible to watch TV at his house while anyone is cooking or talking around their dining table. I guess it's a matter of preference, but mine is firmly against open plan.
Actually now I've written that, I guess it's really not that dissimilar to the open office plan arguments.
Actually now I've written that, I guess it's really not that dissimilar to the open office plan arguments.
My only complaint would be that my dog is an asshole (our fault, should've never given him people food). I'd love to be able to close the door to the kitchen and leave something out on the counter, but if you don't watch him every second he'll sneak in and grab something.
Other than that I love having a big kitchen, being able to prep food + watch TV. We barely use our dining table (we have a nice bar around our kitchen).
Other than that I love having a big kitchen, being able to prep food + watch TV. We barely use our dining table (we have a nice bar around our kitchen).
> 2 adults, 3 children and 2 dogs in a 1200 square foot
gah! I now feel very spoiled / wasteful american stero type. I'm single (1 dog) and would really not enjoy having less than 2000sqft, currently in 2900+. I have hobbies that need space and I enjoy having dedicated rooms (office, painting, tv/reading/palor, sleeping)
gah! I now feel very spoiled / wasteful american stero type. I'm single (1 dog) and would really not enjoy having less than 2000sqft, currently in 2900+. I have hobbies that need space and I enjoy having dedicated rooms (office, painting, tv/reading/palor, sleeping)
I live in a small studio apartment alone. The open floorplan seems to work for me.
And here I thought it was going to be about office space :-)
More seriously though, the original open floor plan was the tipi or the igloo. Separate rooms for everything was explicitly a way to show off wealth by having portions of your living space dedicated to non-essential activities.
When people put aside the bragging aspects having multiple rooms, it is more functionally useful to have a larger open space which can be configured dynamically for different activities.
The discussion of the kitchen is fairly reasonable. The kitchen is a functional room and not something you generally use for other things (or at least the part with all the appliances). Most people don't share their garage either as its a functional storage space for their car (or excess possessions depending on how see things :)). A kitchenette (just a few preparation tools and one preparation area) certainly works well sharing the space with other things where people gather and snack, but kitchens with giant Wolf ranges, extended racks of cookware, and more stainless steel than a battleship are a bit out of place. I think those go back to showing off wealth rather than being practical :-)
More seriously though, the original open floor plan was the tipi or the igloo. Separate rooms for everything was explicitly a way to show off wealth by having portions of your living space dedicated to non-essential activities.
When people put aside the bragging aspects having multiple rooms, it is more functionally useful to have a larger open space which can be configured dynamically for different activities.
The discussion of the kitchen is fairly reasonable. The kitchen is a functional room and not something you generally use for other things (or at least the part with all the appliances). Most people don't share their garage either as its a functional storage space for their car (or excess possessions depending on how see things :)). A kitchenette (just a few preparation tools and one preparation area) certainly works well sharing the space with other things where people gather and snack, but kitchens with giant Wolf ranges, extended racks of cookware, and more stainless steel than a battleship are a bit out of place. I think those go back to showing off wealth rather than being practical :-)
Rooms probably were about wealth originally, but walls have a lot of nice features.
Building or converting homes to the open plan style is long term advantageous.
Traditional-roomed homes had load-bearing walls within the interior space. This limited your flexibility to make layout changes. Open plan buildings come with load-bearing beams spanning between exterior walls, meaning that all interior walls are purely for aesthetics or function reasons, and can be almost trivially changed.
This is why modern office buildings have large open plan spaces with pillars. It is super flexible to set up walls (or not) as the space needs. Conference rooms? Private offices? Break-room? Closet? Just tell them where to put the prefab walls.
If you're worried about being in vogue with house layout trends, open plan is the most logical place to begin because rooming off is cheaper than the other way around.
Traditional-roomed homes had load-bearing walls within the interior space. This limited your flexibility to make layout changes. Open plan buildings come with load-bearing beams spanning between exterior walls, meaning that all interior walls are purely for aesthetics or function reasons, and can be almost trivially changed.
This is why modern office buildings have large open plan spaces with pillars. It is super flexible to set up walls (or not) as the space needs. Conference rooms? Private offices? Break-room? Closet? Just tell them where to put the prefab walls.
If you're worried about being in vogue with house layout trends, open plan is the most logical place to begin because rooming off is cheaper than the other way around.
Most of this was historical in nature, which is fine but largely uninteresting to me at the moment. But I did perk up when I recognized one of the issues highlighted by an open floor plan in your home - noises not being contained to one area. For example, trying to watch TV while someone wants to get something done in the kitchen. My spouse and I do this to each other all the time. Someone wants to grind coffee, grab a snack or wash some dishes, but it makes hearing the precious TV so much harder!
This has been one of the motivations for making kitchen appliances quieter. Quieter dishwashers and garbage disposals are a thing.
It never use to bother me, perhaps because we didn't have a TV for so long, so watching a movie or a TV episode was a bit of an event: Power Up Modem, Power up old PC, load Chrome, Fire up Netflix and a good 2 minutes had elapsed.
Now that we have a TV and still only watch Netflix or Youtube but because it's so easy I find myself watching stuff almost like a TV and get really annoyed when there is noise coming from the kitchen.
Now that we have a TV and still only watch Netflix or Youtube but because it's so easy I find myself watching stuff almost like a TV and get really annoyed when there is noise coming from the kitchen.
It'll be fun to watch this one and see all the discussion about open plan offices from people who didn't read the article.
And the comments boil down to: "I have strong opinions but avoided what looked like an opportunity to become more informed".
Informed about what exactly? The TL;DR: of the article is "open house plans are bad because smells and noise travels throughout the floor" plus a whole lot of history and fluff.
If the article was about the history of floor plans and the origin of the open floor plan, sure that's a chance to be informed. But it nominally wasn't.
If the article was about the history of floor plans and the origin of the open floor plan, sure that's a chance to be informed. But it nominally wasn't.
Yea I was disappointed when I saw it was talking about houses. I've seen a lot of cookie-cutter houses have very open plans just to give the illusion of having more space. I actually like them (if they're setup like a tri-level). Open plan offices are garbage. You have totally different goals/requirements for each.
As stated in other comments, the part of an open-plan house that has rooms has the rooms where privacy and quiet are valuable. The part that is not divided is the social space. When engineers say they like open offices, I assume they prefer to be able to socialize (consult) with their nearby peers more than they prefer to have quiet. Those who prefer private offices prefer quiet and no interruptions. So all of this is consistent between homes and offices.
I live in a old Victorian with small rooms and solid wood doors. This was fantastic when my son was growing up and when my wife was alive. Her tv watching noise did not take over the house; no one's did. It was great. One room is big, the dining room, where we all gathered. The kitchen was nice size too. I have to really appreciate this floor plan, plus the solid wood doors. I am noise sensitive.
This really seems like an extended "stop liking what I don't like" rant. There are legitimate reasons to prefer either open or closed kitchens, and most of them come down to personal preference. Personally, I like being in open, airy spaces. It's got nothing to do with "entertaining."
Also, this:
> A large, single, continuous space is harder to get and keep clean. Messes and smells are no longer isolated, but can be easily tracked throughout the entire first floor of a large home. Less house in general means less house to clean.
...What? Sure, more walls make it easier to ignore messes, but that's not the same thing as easier to clean.
Also, this:
> A large, single, continuous space is harder to get and keep clean. Messes and smells are no longer isolated, but can be easily tracked throughout the entire first floor of a large home. Less house in general means less house to clean.
...What? Sure, more walls make it easier to ignore messes, but that's not the same thing as easier to clean.
It's easier to sweep four small rooms than one big room without. With a big room I usually mentally break it into smaller sections to sweep one at a time, so as to always have a pile nearby whichever bit of floor is currently being swept, and then inevitably some of the dust from one section blows into somewhere I'd already finished.
If the small rooms have thresholds, that helps too; that's what they're for.
Also you can do one room today and the next tomorrow; that holds for vacuuming as well as sweeping.
If the small rooms have thresholds, that helps too; that's what they're for.
Also you can do one room today and the next tomorrow; that holds for vacuuming as well as sweeping.
The same author makes the case for criticism in this article
https://thebaffler.com/kate-takes/dont-let-people-enjoy-thin...
https://thebaffler.com/kate-takes/dont-let-people-enjoy-thin...
That's kind of ironic, actually. Here she's telling us to be more tolerant of other people's preferences, but in the OP article, she's basically saying "my preference is objectively correct, and if you disagree you must not understand the situation."
The article touches upon but does not elaborate on one of the main reasons open designs grew in popularity: money. Increasing population density drives the cost per square meter up and having a dedicated home office, dining room, etc becomes too expensive. Sure you can have lots of rooms if you have the space, but try to cram a family of four in 50 square meters with all these environments and you end up with tiny rooms. A solution would be, as stated on the last paragraph, multi-purpose rooms (e.g. guest bedroom with office)
Off topic: this article is like a fly trap for people who comment without reading the article.
Off topic: this article is like a fly trap for people who comment without reading the article.
Depending on your lifestyle, some areas are just a waste of space. It's just my wife, me, and two cats (children weren't in the cards) in a ~1000 sq/ft 2br/2ba condo. It's open concept built in the late 90's and when we look around on housing/remodel shows on TV or look at floor plans for our dream home (a whole 200 sq/ft larger with a pool) the #1 thing we kill off is the damn dining room. We eat in front of the TV or at the dining counter in the kitchen like normal 'Mericans. We don't need a whole separate room wasted w/ no door and a low hanging light fixture that we might make use of a few days a year.
But the dining room is not inherent in an open concept, and it's not absent in closed spaces. If anything, I find the "useless" formal dining rooms tend to exist more often in their own separate totally pointless room, where open floor plans tend to have more "usable" everyday dining spaces. not that you couldn't thrown in 2 or 3 or 4 dining rooms if you really wanted to be wasteful.
"The closed floor plan, especially the closed kitchen, can help save energy by the simple principle of not heating and cooling rooms that are not currently in use, as well as by isolating rooms we want to keep warm or cool."
This definitely depends on where you live. Here in Hawaii, an open floor plan is crucial for the natural breezes to be able to flow through the house. Fail that part, and you're stuck with totally closing up and air conditioning your house, which at $0.35/kWh really hurts. Plus why live in Hawaii if you're going to close yourself into an air tight box?
This definitely depends on where you live. Here in Hawaii, an open floor plan is crucial for the natural breezes to be able to flow through the house. Fail that part, and you're stuck with totally closing up and air conditioning your house, which at $0.35/kWh really hurts. Plus why live in Hawaii if you're going to close yourself into an air tight box?
The open floor plan is nice if you have small kids that need to be watched over. Though as they get older, it’s nicer to have separate rooms.
Maybe the compromise is having rooms partitioned with French doors. My in-laws house (about 100 years old) is like that, but the shorter ceilings make me feel cramped.
Maybe the compromise is having rooms partitioned with French doors. My in-laws house (about 100 years old) is like that, but the shorter ceilings make me feel cramped.
I find it interesting that the open kitchen and living area has become so popular during the past few decades. Back in the says, rich families had servants cooking for them, so those kitchens would be very detached from the living area. After the Second World War, when many families couldn't afford servants anymore, the invention of the Frankfurt kitchen brought formed our modern understanding of kitchens and cooking:
"We’re used to thinking of kitchens as a universal kind of room that almost everyone has—as essential as a place to sleep, or a bathroom. Our great-great-grandparents were not."
https://www.citylab.com/design/2019/05/modern-kitchen-histor...
After just spending two months working with an architect to design the remodel our 6,000 sf house, here are my observations. We like to entertain. We usually have people over for some kind of party at least every month. During parties, people gather in the kitchen (for some reason). So we try to encourage people to get out of the kitchen.
Pathways are important. Every common area should have at least two pathways, and dead-end rooms should be avoided. The easiest way to accomplish all of these is the open concept floor plan with the kitchen at the center.
Now, with folding exterior doors, the open concept is moving outdoors to create indoor/outdoor spaces. So, actually, the trend is going towards even more open concept floor plans.
Now, with folding exterior doors, the open concept is moving outdoors to create indoor/outdoor spaces. So, actually, the trend is going towards even more open concept floor plans.
With a 6000 sf house, surely you have enough space to have both open and closed off parts of the house?
The private spaces are closed off, of course. But, the floor plan has a few large rooms, not many small rooms that could be closed off. One could do it that way, I presume.
[deleted]
I found myself disagreeing with almost every point. Entertaining only happens a handful of times a year? What?
Furthermore designing for it is wasteful? Why must it be?
It’s an acoustic nightmare to have one big room that everyone can talk to in?
Open floor plan housing makes smaller spaces feel larger by allowing all the rooms to be the living room or dining room as need be. It allows me to afford a place that feels larger but is smaller. And that alone is a killer feature in a City.
Furthermore designing for it is wasteful? Why must it be?
It’s an acoustic nightmare to have one big room that everyone can talk to in?
Open floor plan housing makes smaller spaces feel larger by allowing all the rooms to be the living room or dining room as need be. It allows me to afford a place that feels larger but is smaller. And that alone is a killer feature in a City.
I think it was basically a "spending hundreds of thousands to remodel your mansion to have a massive open floorplan just to show off to your friends makes me angry" rant that had nothing to do with how actual people use actual spaces.
We almost never have people over, but having an open space is wonderful even for just two of us, and there's certainly nothing wasteful about designing for edge cases if they don't make things worse the rest of the time.
We almost never have people over, but having an open space is wonderful even for just two of us, and there's certainly nothing wasteful about designing for edge cases if they don't make things worse the rest of the time.
While I love living in an open concept house, I totally agree with the points that you disagree with.
We don't have a lot of guests all that often, so I agree if "a handful of times" is "between 10 and 15 per year."
There is no question that open concept doesn't allow to heat or cool this room but not the other. It's all or nothing for us. That was totally different when I grew up.
Whatever happens in the kitchen, we can hear it perfectly on the other side of the house in our bedroom if we leave our bedroom door open. That would not be the case if we had some kitchen door somewhere in between. Similarly, when our daughter has friends over in the dining area or living area, we typically move to the bedroom because the family/TV room is too noisy then.
We don't have a lot of guests all that often, so I agree if "a handful of times" is "between 10 and 15 per year."
There is no question that open concept doesn't allow to heat or cool this room but not the other. It's all or nothing for us. That was totally different when I grew up.
Whatever happens in the kitchen, we can hear it perfectly on the other side of the house in our bedroom if we leave our bedroom door open. That would not be the case if we had some kitchen door somewhere in between. Similarly, when our daughter has friends over in the dining area or living area, we typically move to the bedroom because the family/TV room is too noisy then.
I have seen the tension between open separated spaces with my family. My parents come from a place and time when having lots of little rooms, with doors that you can open close is a great advantage.
My wife and I like open floor plans. The kitchen opens into the living room and into the dining room. When my parents visit, my mom often remarks how she would really like to close the (non-existent) door to the kitchen, so she can cook in peace and not make loud noises and smell up the whole house. And we keep trying to tell her that we like to watch and help her cook, see steaming pot of soup or the frying pan going and whatnot. It's a silly conversation we have, we even joke about it, but I found it relevant with the article at hand.
> the kitchen, no longer a place of shame and no longer reliant upon the ventilation provided by the kitchen door
Yes. I think that is to some extent how my mom views that space. It's a dirty, place that you want isolate, do your work in there, and then come out and serve everyone the food in the dining room.
My wife and I like open floor plans. The kitchen opens into the living room and into the dining room. When my parents visit, my mom often remarks how she would really like to close the (non-existent) door to the kitchen, so she can cook in peace and not make loud noises and smell up the whole house. And we keep trying to tell her that we like to watch and help her cook, see steaming pot of soup or the frying pan going and whatnot. It's a silly conversation we have, we even joke about it, but I found it relevant with the article at hand.
> the kitchen, no longer a place of shame and no longer reliant upon the ventilation provided by the kitchen door
Yes. I think that is to some extent how my mom views that space. It's a dirty, place that you want isolate, do your work in there, and then come out and serve everyone the food in the dining room.
We had a very similar experience! My grandfather and his lady-friend came over to see our new house, remarked on how much space there was, and proceeded to spend the rest of the visit making little remarks about how to better separate the parts of the house from each other. They seemed completely oblivious to the fact that we bought the house specifically because it was so open.
I don't really see rooms making a full recovery from the current open floor plan trend. While I agree that there are some downsides to an open floor plan (sound, cleaning, etc), I would be surprised if the open floor plan does not have serious longevity.
Specifically, the open kitchen, which seems to be where the open floor plan started. Attitudes towards meal preparation have had significant changes over the past few decades, and given the changes to women's roles in society, I don't really see a potential to return to separate cooking and serving spaces.
I wouldn't be surprised if the pendulum swings the other way soon, so that there is at least some compartmentalization of the first floor (kitchen, dining room, living room, entry, etc). But probably the dining room and kitchen will be that last to be divided, if ever.
Specifically, the open kitchen, which seems to be where the open floor plan started. Attitudes towards meal preparation have had significant changes over the past few decades, and given the changes to women's roles in society, I don't really see a potential to return to separate cooking and serving spaces.
I wouldn't be surprised if the pendulum swings the other way soon, so that there is at least some compartmentalization of the first floor (kitchen, dining room, living room, entry, etc). But probably the dining room and kitchen will be that last to be divided, if ever.
"While I agree that there are some downsides to an open floor plan (sound, cleaning, etc)"
Sound could be mitigated at least somewhat if these rooms weren't so often hardwood floors, windows, and drywall on every surface. I'll cop to being at least somewhat above average on sensitivity to such things, but while a big space will always have a certain big space-y sound to it, it doesn't have to be a booming echo where the high-frequency sounds bounce around for seconds at a time.
Sound could be mitigated at least somewhat if these rooms weren't so often hardwood floors, windows, and drywall on every surface. I'll cop to being at least somewhat above average on sensitivity to such things, but while a big space will always have a certain big space-y sound to it, it doesn't have to be a booming echo where the high-frequency sounds bounce around for seconds at a time.
I'd really like to suppress the sound.
Doing that well is non-standard, and thus expensive. There are so many obvious fixes that introduce other problems. Textured surfaces like carpet and popcorn ceilings get filthy disgusting. Wooden walls and ceilings are a fire hazard.
I think white silicone rubber would be an excellent surface material. It won't burn, nothing eats it, it won't rot, it can be scrubbed with bleach or detergent, and it can have the right sort of softness for absorbing sound. It could work as floor tiles or wall panels, with a smooth exposed surface and a waffle-like backing to grant it some additional squishyness. For the ceiling it could even be like stalactites, perhaps 4" diameter and 20" length, to better absorb the sound.
Doing that well is non-standard, and thus expensive. There are so many obvious fixes that introduce other problems. Textured surfaces like carpet and popcorn ceilings get filthy disgusting. Wooden walls and ceilings are a fire hazard.
I think white silicone rubber would be an excellent surface material. It won't burn, nothing eats it, it won't rot, it can be scrubbed with bleach or detergent, and it can have the right sort of softness for absorbing sound. It could work as floor tiles or wall panels, with a smooth exposed surface and a waffle-like backing to grant it some additional squishyness. For the ceiling it could even be like stalactites, perhaps 4" diameter and 20" length, to better absorb the sound.
I don't think that closed kitchens are going to be making a return any time soon. If anything,
the "mess kitchen" trend the author described just seems to be a way for very wealthy people to keep their open concept while having a classier alternative to the classic garage-fridge setup for overflow.
As for all the concerns about noise making it hard to watch TV - on the rare occasions that it's a problem, I usually just turn captions on (which I usually keep on anyhow because I just find them helpful).
The one space I do wish was standard in more homes though is a small office or library space. I would gladly replace most dining spaces (I don't even own a table to eat at) with a little corner room with doors and shelving on the walls.
As for all the concerns about noise making it hard to watch TV - on the rare occasions that it's a problem, I usually just turn captions on (which I usually keep on anyhow because I just find them helpful).
The one space I do wish was standard in more homes though is a small office or library space. I would gladly replace most dining spaces (I don't even own a table to eat at) with a little corner room with doors and shelving on the walls.
My parents live in a house built in 1840 (in the UK so this isn’t too unusual) and I grew up being continually told to close doors (every room is separated from connected rooms by doors) to conserve heat and, particularly importantly for the kitchen, to stop the house smelling of cooking.
All the homes I’ve lived in as an adult (mostly in the US) haven’t had the same separation and I like when my house smells of cooking (as long as I don’t burn something) but it definitely changes what I cook, knowing that the oven will heat the entire apartment definitely changes plans in the summer, whereas my mother can simply open the kitchen door
All the homes I’ve lived in as an adult (mostly in the US) haven’t had the same separation and I like when my house smells of cooking (as long as I don’t burn something) but it definitely changes what I cook, knowing that the oven will heat the entire apartment definitely changes plans in the summer, whereas my mother can simply open the kitchen door
I’m all for rooms - separation of space is effective for deliberately altering one’s state of mind, after all.
However, the author’s argument was weak. Someone else or some other perspective really deserves to have written this piece.
However, the author’s argument was weak. Someone else or some other perspective really deserves to have written this piece.
I love our 1989 built open great room plan.
Though we never use the "formal" dining room or formal living room as intended. They are/were used for craft rooms, playrooms, exercise rooms, temp storage, office space, and so on over the years.
Though we never use the "formal" dining room or formal living room as intended. They are/were used for craft rooms, playrooms, exercise rooms, temp storage, office space, and so on over the years.
I'm glad the article talks about houses too. Seems like everyone wants a house with one gigantic room on the first floor. No thanks.
This article is a train-wreck of a justification for, I assume, the author's own personal taste in interior design.
It builds up a total straw man for why open concepts are terrible, built on ways in which almost none of us actually live.
What are the justifications for why "open concept" floor plans in which the kitchen flows into the living area?
* Open floor plans are an "acoustic nightmare". Try to imagine the horror of trying to watch television in the living room while some jerk in the kitchen bangs pots and pans trying to get your Totino's Pizza Rolls ready for you.
This point is at least fair. Yes, sound bleeds from one space to another, for better or for worse. But I don't want to live in a walled-off Victorian house. I don't have servants making me food. I don't have or want a partner who toils in some distant secluded space to make me my supper. When I'm cooking, I don't want to be isolated from 'the rest of the house'. I want to see the score in the game, or be able to talk to my partner as she unwinds after a long day, if I'm putting the dishes away.
* "Designing homes around “entertaining” that happens only a handful of times a year is a wasteful, yet still mindbogglingly popular practice. When people come to visit, they are there to see you, not your open concept."
But my open space allows me to communicate with my partner. Or have our parents over and speak with them while we prepare. Or, when we have "handful of times a year" parties, where people end up congregating in the kitchen ANYWAY, we're able to mingle and move freely. Moreover, the statement "they are there to see you, not your open concept" betrays an open hostility that the author clearly feels about WHY people design their spaces the way they do, that you're trying to show off, not that you could possibly PREFER to have spaces that blend together.
* We are now apparently building "mess kitchens" so that our fancy designer kitchens don't get messy.
Okay, but very few of us are rich enough to do this, go complain about those people doing that thing.
* Things are too far apart in an open concept! We have to install 2nd "pot sinks" so that our commute between the sink and the stove is not excessive! Everything is so far apart!
Again, rich people problems. Not open concept problems. Stuff can still be close together in an open space. Is the author complaining about the open concept, or the fact that some houses have kitchens marginally larger than an NYC efficiency kitchen you can't even turn around in?
* Heating and cooling such a large space is so inefficient!
Okay, because everyone WITHOUT an open concept has spaces that are easy to heat/cool separately? AFAIK most people use forced air or radiators or something, and don't really have the ability to heat one room at a time anyway.
* We're building these absurd she-sheds and man-caves as rebellion against the open concept!
... so you're admitting that the open-concept only refers to the kitchen and dining and living room, and despite this people still have their private spaces and it basically works just fine for everyone? You also recognize, again, that the open concept does not and has not ever extended to bedrooms or offices or other living spaces?
The article almost feels like a parody, since its example of a gloriously convenient 50s kitchen includes a washing machine and dryer and 1950s housewife who, conveniently, never needs to leave her unpaid working environment, or, for that matter, be seen at all.
It builds up a total straw man for why open concepts are terrible, built on ways in which almost none of us actually live.
What are the justifications for why "open concept" floor plans in which the kitchen flows into the living area?
* Open floor plans are an "acoustic nightmare". Try to imagine the horror of trying to watch television in the living room while some jerk in the kitchen bangs pots and pans trying to get your Totino's Pizza Rolls ready for you.
This point is at least fair. Yes, sound bleeds from one space to another, for better or for worse. But I don't want to live in a walled-off Victorian house. I don't have servants making me food. I don't have or want a partner who toils in some distant secluded space to make me my supper. When I'm cooking, I don't want to be isolated from 'the rest of the house'. I want to see the score in the game, or be able to talk to my partner as she unwinds after a long day, if I'm putting the dishes away.
* "Designing homes around “entertaining” that happens only a handful of times a year is a wasteful, yet still mindbogglingly popular practice. When people come to visit, they are there to see you, not your open concept."
But my open space allows me to communicate with my partner. Or have our parents over and speak with them while we prepare. Or, when we have "handful of times a year" parties, where people end up congregating in the kitchen ANYWAY, we're able to mingle and move freely. Moreover, the statement "they are there to see you, not your open concept" betrays an open hostility that the author clearly feels about WHY people design their spaces the way they do, that you're trying to show off, not that you could possibly PREFER to have spaces that blend together.
* We are now apparently building "mess kitchens" so that our fancy designer kitchens don't get messy.
Okay, but very few of us are rich enough to do this, go complain about those people doing that thing.
* Things are too far apart in an open concept! We have to install 2nd "pot sinks" so that our commute between the sink and the stove is not excessive! Everything is so far apart!
Again, rich people problems. Not open concept problems. Stuff can still be close together in an open space. Is the author complaining about the open concept, or the fact that some houses have kitchens marginally larger than an NYC efficiency kitchen you can't even turn around in?
* Heating and cooling such a large space is so inefficient!
Okay, because everyone WITHOUT an open concept has spaces that are easy to heat/cool separately? AFAIK most people use forced air or radiators or something, and don't really have the ability to heat one room at a time anyway.
* We're building these absurd she-sheds and man-caves as rebellion against the open concept!
... so you're admitting that the open-concept only refers to the kitchen and dining and living room, and despite this people still have their private spaces and it basically works just fine for everyone? You also recognize, again, that the open concept does not and has not ever extended to bedrooms or offices or other living spaces?
The article almost feels like a parody, since its example of a gloriously convenient 50s kitchen includes a washing machine and dryer and 1950s housewife who, conveniently, never needs to leave her unpaid working environment, or, for that matter, be seen at all.
That's an aggressive reading of that article. She lays out her argument, maybe makes a snarky comment here and there, but it's hardly a rant.
Her argument flows pretty naturally imo. Identify a problem. Open concepts are a fad with bad externalities for its occupants and the environment. She points a wagging finger at the normies who bought into the fad, condescending only if you choose to read it that way, but really all in all good natured. More than a fad, perhaps open floor plans are a historical mistake by ideologues who were unable to anticipate its unintended consequences. She draws attention to the richer people escaping to their man caves and sculleries, they wouldn't need to do that if their house wasn't a cacophony of noise and smell to begin with. Her solution is simple and elegant. Just close up that kitchen again instead of holding on to that collective aesthetic obsession with large spaces.
She underestimates that people actually value the aesthetics and branding of an open floor plan more than any of its drawbacks. Open floor plans make your small house look big and are ideal for the perfect family, where everybody always gets along, and the loss of privacy is secondary. And who doesn't want to live in a big house, and not have a perfect family?
No going back. The open floor plan coincides with the decline of cooking and the replacement of hosting with entertaining. Kitchens are fake anyway. Of the families who I know who actually cook meals, who host their friends and relatives as if they were honored guest to be waited upon, none of those prefer an open kitchen. Those who don't, mine included, for who a kitchen is a place with a fridge and a microwave primarily, maybe a large tabletop for all the crap their kids bring back form school, the people who's idea of cooking is making casseroles and pasta that need to last for days, who's idea of a party is a potluck, they do prefer open floor plans.
It's a value shift in what it means to prepare meals, she prefers the old fashioned values, most people no longer do.
Her argument flows pretty naturally imo. Identify a problem. Open concepts are a fad with bad externalities for its occupants and the environment. She points a wagging finger at the normies who bought into the fad, condescending only if you choose to read it that way, but really all in all good natured. More than a fad, perhaps open floor plans are a historical mistake by ideologues who were unable to anticipate its unintended consequences. She draws attention to the richer people escaping to their man caves and sculleries, they wouldn't need to do that if their house wasn't a cacophony of noise and smell to begin with. Her solution is simple and elegant. Just close up that kitchen again instead of holding on to that collective aesthetic obsession with large spaces.
She underestimates that people actually value the aesthetics and branding of an open floor plan more than any of its drawbacks. Open floor plans make your small house look big and are ideal for the perfect family, where everybody always gets along, and the loss of privacy is secondary. And who doesn't want to live in a big house, and not have a perfect family?
No going back. The open floor plan coincides with the decline of cooking and the replacement of hosting with entertaining. Kitchens are fake anyway. Of the families who I know who actually cook meals, who host their friends and relatives as if they were honored guest to be waited upon, none of those prefer an open kitchen. Those who don't, mine included, for who a kitchen is a place with a fridge and a microwave primarily, maybe a large tabletop for all the crap their kids bring back form school, the people who's idea of cooking is making casseroles and pasta that need to last for days, who's idea of a party is a potluck, they do prefer open floor plans.
It's a value shift in what it means to prepare meals, she prefers the old fashioned values, most people no longer do.
The only real problem she identifies is "noise". (I'm not sure what the "bad externalities for the environment" you point to are). You trade the inconvenience of noise (noise when you don't want it) for the convenience of noise (ability to hear/see/be involved with what's going on outside of the kitchen). That's one unintended consequence (or was it intended?)
>She draws attention to the richer people escaping to their man caves and sculleries, they wouldn't need to do that if their house wasn't a cacophony of noise and smell to begin with.
I don't buy this. All homes have private spaces. Man caves would not go away if we all just closed off our kitchens. It implies that the "man cave" only exists because of the open concept, but for that to be true, it would have to mean that it's replacing the living room, which I think you can hardly conclude from the available evidence. When was an "enclosed" living room a paragon of privacy?
It seems so utterly bizarre to go from "combine kitchen and dining and living room" to "complete and total loss of privacy". Again, we still have private bedrooms and offices, those with more space in their homes have still more separate spaces.
There are implications here that we had to build bigger houses to replace the lost 'private' space, but I hardly see the evidence. The closed-off houses of yore, with their formal dining rooms and walled-off kitchens, were hardly tiny.
>The open floor plan coincides with the decline of cooking and the replacement of hosting with entertaining. Kitchens are fake anyway. Of the families who I know who actually cook meals, who host their friends and relatives as if they were honored guest to be waited upon, none of those prefer an open kitchen.
Again, thin. Plenty of folks have chimed in here who prefer an open concept, and plenty of folks who prefer a closed-off one. Like my own household, we cook every single night, and prefer the open space.
>It's a value shift in what it means to prepare meals, she prefers the old fashioned values, most people no longer do.
This is an unsupported conclusion. Again, it's a quasi-pejorative that making your own meals means you prefer a closed off kitchen. That's just not the case. Different people have different preferences, but this condescending attitude that real people who really cook hate all this new fangled nonsense is just not based in fact.
>She draws attention to the richer people escaping to their man caves and sculleries, they wouldn't need to do that if their house wasn't a cacophony of noise and smell to begin with.
I don't buy this. All homes have private spaces. Man caves would not go away if we all just closed off our kitchens. It implies that the "man cave" only exists because of the open concept, but for that to be true, it would have to mean that it's replacing the living room, which I think you can hardly conclude from the available evidence. When was an "enclosed" living room a paragon of privacy?
It seems so utterly bizarre to go from "combine kitchen and dining and living room" to "complete and total loss of privacy". Again, we still have private bedrooms and offices, those with more space in their homes have still more separate spaces.
There are implications here that we had to build bigger houses to replace the lost 'private' space, but I hardly see the evidence. The closed-off houses of yore, with their formal dining rooms and walled-off kitchens, were hardly tiny.
>The open floor plan coincides with the decline of cooking and the replacement of hosting with entertaining. Kitchens are fake anyway. Of the families who I know who actually cook meals, who host their friends and relatives as if they were honored guest to be waited upon, none of those prefer an open kitchen.
Again, thin. Plenty of folks have chimed in here who prefer an open concept, and plenty of folks who prefer a closed-off one. Like my own household, we cook every single night, and prefer the open space.
>It's a value shift in what it means to prepare meals, she prefers the old fashioned values, most people no longer do.
This is an unsupported conclusion. Again, it's a quasi-pejorative that making your own meals means you prefer a closed off kitchen. That's just not the case. Different people have different preferences, but this condescending attitude that real people who really cook hate all this new fangled nonsense is just not based in fact.
Maybe this will spread to office spaces.
I feel like Hackers probably don't really care about this topic, but they are excited to see a few get punked by the unexpected subject matter.
I have a lot of clients. The ones with separate rooms are especially inefficient, in that teams seldom see each other and organize long meetings to compensate.
So separate rooms are equal to "remote" work for all practical purposes.
At the end, "remote" teams with monthly get-togethers and weekly calls are best IMHO.
At the end, "remote" teams with monthly get-togethers and weekly calls are best IMHO.
Did you read the article? This is about history of and changes to places that people live in, not open-plan vs. separate-office workplaces.
But death to the open-office floor plan, too.
I admit I knee-jerk upvoted without reading at first because I hate open office floor plans so much.
Did you read the article? It's talking about the new modern open living plans with no walls between kitchen and the living room.
[nm]
It has to be a mix. Fully open isn’t great because you can’t make your space your own. You have to consider the entire rest of the floor or building. Give everyone private rooms and everyone works in isolation. This might look productive but I would argue it’s not: everyone has a physical barrier around themselves, they don’t even need to set boundaries any more.
But if you can give your teams a group space to themselves, they get the benefit of an open collaborative space between them without polluting the dynamics of other teams.
Rather than one open space, create that hotdesking area, then your large team rooms, and then scatter your generic meeting rooms and video call booths around so you can still opt for privacy.
This takes more effort but it is worth it. Your teams will generate subcultures of their own to make it easier (and more enjoyable) to work together. Give them that space.
But if you can give your teams a group space to themselves, they get the benefit of an open collaborative space between them without polluting the dynamics of other teams.
Rather than one open space, create that hotdesking area, then your large team rooms, and then scatter your generic meeting rooms and video call booths around so you can still opt for privacy.
This takes more effort but it is worth it. Your teams will generate subcultures of their own to make it easier (and more enjoyable) to work together. Give them that space.
Found the guy who didn't read the article, not even the first paragraph.
My mistake... I made the classic mistake of reading the headline, the parent comment, and not the content.
This is usually called a conversation.
Enjoy your free downvotes down the thread.
This is usually called a conversation.
Enjoy your free downvotes down the thread.
> This is usually called a conversation.
You didn't even reply to said parent comment, so I don't see how "conversation" is your excuse.
Maybe next time you're proven wrong, you don't dig with renewed fervor and snark and instead only humbly admit your mistakes.
You didn't even reply to said parent comment, so I don't see how "conversation" is your excuse.
Maybe next time you're proven wrong, you don't dig with renewed fervor and snark and instead only humbly admit your mistakes.
> My mistake. /EOF
ftfy
ftfy
There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution without it feeling cramped. In the open configuration it’s vast. The article mentions energy use - and living smaller is better in that regard.