Show HN: Flowlingo – practice a foreign language with tech news(getflowlingo.com)
getflowlingo.com
Show HN: Flowlingo – practice a foreign language with tech news
https://www.getflowlingo.com/
55 comments
We list the languages on the website and the app description (also rakoo pasted them in his comment).
Check out @levpopov's other comments about phone #s (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20097197) and how we handle translation (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20097026).
Check out @levpopov's other comments about phone #s (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20097197) and how we handle translation (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20097026).
I see the language description on the site now but it was hard to spot until I looked really carefully. That said, I don't see a way to use this as a web app, only to download it for a mobile device. I know the phone number is for getting a download link but the thing is I do not want to download it.
Then don’t.
The full list is available from the Android play store page (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wowlabs.fl...):
> 22 languages supported, including: English, Spanish, Français (French), Deutsch (German), Русский (Russian), 简体中文 (Chinese Simplified), বাংলা (Bengali), Dansk (Danish), Nederlands (Dutch), Ελληνικά (Greek), हिन्दी (Hindi), Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian), Italiano (Italian), 日本語 (Japanese), 한국어 (Korean), Polski (Polish), Português (Portuguese), Svenska (Swedish), Tagalog (Filipino), ภาษาไทย (Thai), Türkçe (Turkish), and Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese).
> 22 languages supported, including: English, Spanish, Français (French), Deutsch (German), Русский (Russian), 简体中文 (Chinese Simplified), বাংলা (Bengali), Dansk (Danish), Nederlands (Dutch), Ελληνικά (Greek), हिन्दी (Hindi), Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian), Italiano (Italian), 日本語 (Japanese), 한국어 (Korean), Polski (Polish), Português (Portuguese), Svenska (Swedish), Tagalog (Filipino), ภาษาไทย (Thai), Türkçe (Turkish), and Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese).
<rant>
The thing that annoys me about all of these attempts is failing to recognize the impact of irregular forms of the verbs. So - for French - all the different forms of the verb aller (go) are treated individually. I paid for ReadLang for a while, but this lack of a feature has proven too frustrating.
I would have loved to have an app that runs the text through something like Google Natural Language API (https://cloud.google.com/natural-language/) and then use the results of _that_ for flashcards, noun-phrase translation, etc. Google Translate alone is just not sufficient. </rant>
Of course, I have 10 pages worth of ideas about language learning and none of that implemented. So, kudos for trying to make at least something happen. Let the thousand flowers bloom and all that.
I would have loved to have an app that runs the text through something like Google Natural Language API (https://cloud.google.com/natural-language/) and then use the results of _that_ for flashcards, noun-phrase translation, etc. Google Translate alone is just not sufficient. </rant>
Of course, I have 10 pages worth of ideas about language learning and none of that implemented. So, kudos for trying to make at least something happen. Let the thousand flowers bloom and all that.
Flowlingo dev here. Thanks for the feedback! It's been a while since I've taken French, but one thing we plan on adding is translations of individual words in-context. For example, in Spanish, if you tapped an individual verb, the translation would be properly conjugated in relation to the sentence. We'd love to hear your other feedback, feel free to chat with us in the app (tap "Help" and scroll to the bottom), or email us at [email protected].
I think both could be useful. If I'm reading something in russian, for example, иду, that on its own isn't very interesting to me, I want to be able to see the whole verb, especially when there are stem changes etc.
Not sure if you fully understood OP. I think what he is saying that he wants just one flash card for all variations of
Come como comer comiste etc.
And not one for each
Come como comer comiste etc.
And not one for each
I think you would find it difficult to conjugate _the translation_ as the conjugation tables/rules differ between the languages and the mapping is not one of one. For example, English only has 'you' but French has both singular and plural forms. Russian has the declension as well (Именительный, Родительный...)
I think it would make more sense to normalize at the _source_ language as I wrote originally. See also the other comments in the same sub-thread.
As to the other ideas, like I said "10 pages". And a lot of them about the system that really accumulates the knowledge about you to give you the best training. See, for example, https://solaresearch.org/ for academic foundation of that and https://french.kwiziq.com/.
But here is a couple of other thoughts. Feel free to contact me if they spark anything:
* Synchronized text and audio (e.g. Amazon Whispersync). Has been done by many people but was usually done by hand (was too expensive) or by text-to-speech on the fly (which was awful at the time); yet it was always welcomed. TTS is now much better, but also maybe some work can be pre-calculated (rather than immediate).
* Use the Google API mentioned before (syntax tree) to extract sub-sequences (named entities, stable expressions, etc) and present those instead of individual words; this helps to see them over and over within different sentences. Even showing a verb and its dependencies is useful. This also allows to include grammar references for tenses/irregular verbs/expressions, etc.
* Dictionary entries by the normalized form (lemma) of the verb, noun. Flashcards that first show the multiple contexts line of the same verb in the same form, then same verb in other forms and only then translation.
* Color code the text being read by word type. So all verbs as red, all nouns as blue, all adjectives as green, etc. Also see https://langliter.com/, they do (and lemmas) that as "highlights".
* Color code the text by words known. Green as those learned already in that exact form. Yellow as those learned in different form (different tense, different conjugation, etc). Red as those unknown.
* Pre-flash. Analyze text (small chunk), compare again flashcards and compile the list of words/expressions and let person practice them first. Then read the actual text with the hope to increase the speed of comprehension.
* Slightly further along are things like "Words of the day" emails that analyze your flashcards to give you more words in the same category (arm+leg=>offer head). Or touch typing game using your own flashcard words. Or conjugation table training using collected context.
I think it would make more sense to normalize at the _source_ language as I wrote originally. See also the other comments in the same sub-thread.
As to the other ideas, like I said "10 pages". And a lot of them about the system that really accumulates the knowledge about you to give you the best training. See, for example, https://solaresearch.org/ for academic foundation of that and https://french.kwiziq.com/.
But here is a couple of other thoughts. Feel free to contact me if they spark anything:
* Synchronized text and audio (e.g. Amazon Whispersync). Has been done by many people but was usually done by hand (was too expensive) or by text-to-speech on the fly (which was awful at the time); yet it was always welcomed. TTS is now much better, but also maybe some work can be pre-calculated (rather than immediate).
* Use the Google API mentioned before (syntax tree) to extract sub-sequences (named entities, stable expressions, etc) and present those instead of individual words; this helps to see them over and over within different sentences. Even showing a verb and its dependencies is useful. This also allows to include grammar references for tenses/irregular verbs/expressions, etc.
* Dictionary entries by the normalized form (lemma) of the verb, noun. Flashcards that first show the multiple contexts line of the same verb in the same form, then same verb in other forms and only then translation.
* Color code the text being read by word type. So all verbs as red, all nouns as blue, all adjectives as green, etc. Also see https://langliter.com/, they do (and lemmas) that as "highlights".
* Color code the text by words known. Green as those learned already in that exact form. Yellow as those learned in different form (different tense, different conjugation, etc). Red as those unknown.
* Pre-flash. Analyze text (small chunk), compare again flashcards and compile the list of words/expressions and let person practice them first. Then read the actual text with the hope to increase the speed of comprehension.
* Slightly further along are things like "Words of the day" emails that analyze your flashcards to give you more words in the same category (arm+leg=>offer head). Or touch typing game using your own flashcard words. Or conjugation table training using collected context.
Pedant: English has y'all and 'all yall', both plural forms of 'you'.
Well, the pedantry can goo all the way down too!
These two forms are a dialect (variation?) of English, mostly used in Southern USA.
Also, if I remember my John McWhorter correctly: 1) "y'all" refers to a group majority (e.g. a group of 10 people within the global collective of 20) 2) "all y'all" refers to the complete set (all 20)
Both of these are contextually narrow than "you" which can refer to a single person or to an undefined sized group.
A possibly better example would have actually been "thou", an archaic singular 2nd person pronoun.
However, all of this is just further proof that the equivalence in conjugation is a harder problem that could be imagined. So, thank you for contributing a good example.
These two forms are a dialect (variation?) of English, mostly used in Southern USA.
Also, if I remember my John McWhorter correctly: 1) "y'all" refers to a group majority (e.g. a group of 10 people within the global collective of 20) 2) "all y'all" refers to the complete set (all 20)
Both of these are contextually narrow than "you" which can refer to a single person or to an undefined sized group.
A possibly better example would have actually been "thou", an archaic singular 2nd person pronoun.
However, all of this is just further proof that the equivalence in conjugation is a harder problem that could be imagined. So, thank you for contributing a good example.
The thing that annoys me about all of these attempts is failing to recognize the impact of irregular forms of the verbs. So - for French - all the different forms of the verb aller (go) are treated individually. I paid for ReadLang for a while, but this lack of a feature has proven too frustrating.
I don't speak French so I'm having trouble understanding what you mean. Do you mind giving a bit more detail?
I'm also curious about the other ideas you mentioned.
I don't speak French so I'm having trouble understanding what you mean. Do you mind giving a bit more detail?
I'm also curious about the other ideas you mentioned.
French here, I never realized it but there are at least 3 different forms depending on who does it and when:
Present: Je vais, tu vas, il va, nous allons, vous allez, ils vont
Future: j'irai, tu iras, il ira, nous irons, vous irez, ils iront
Same goes for être (to be):
Present: Je suis, tu es, il est, nous sommes, vous êtes, ils sont
Future: Je serai, tu sera, il sera, nous serons, vous serez, ils seront
Simple past: Je fus, tu fus, il fut, nous fûmes, vous fûtes, ils furent (No one uses simple past, but here it is)
Subordinate (?): Que je sois, que tu sois, qu'il soit, que nous soyons, que vous soyez, qu'ils soient
I guess it's the same in pretty much every language, especially for those 2 common verbs, there are irregular forms everywhere.
Present: Je vais, tu vas, il va, nous allons, vous allez, ils vont
Future: j'irai, tu iras, il ira, nous irons, vous irez, ils iront
Same goes for être (to be):
Present: Je suis, tu es, il est, nous sommes, vous êtes, ils sont
Future: Je serai, tu sera, il sera, nous serons, vous serez, ils seront
Simple past: Je fus, tu fus, il fut, nous fûmes, vous fûtes, ils furent (No one uses simple past, but here it is)
Subordinate (?): Que je sois, que tu sois, qu'il soit, que nous soyons, que vous soyez, qu'ils soient
I guess it's the same in pretty much every language, especially for those 2 common verbs, there are irregular forms everywhere.
The subordinate is actually the present subjunctive. There's also a past subjunctive (que je fusse, tu fusses, il fût, nous fussions, vous fussiez, ils fussent) and other forms with auxliaries, if I remember my grammar properly, the formsare derived from the simple past, or the other way around, can't remember.
The reason it's not subordinate is because I think there are some very rare cases where it can be used without a que, but I can't think over one off the top of my head.
The reason it's not subordinate is because I think there are some very rare cases where it can be used without a que, but I can't think over one off the top of my head.
And the challenge with the current learning software is that they treat each one of these forms as a separate flashcard. So, you are learning surface/contextualized forms of the verb rather than understanding how to use the verb itself in various contexts.
Productive x2! Love it. For second generation immigrants and I'm sure many others, learning a new language often comes while watching foreign language films, sometimes with subtitles. This seems like a more productive way to not only learn the content but also the language.
I'm glad you like it! Feel free to send us feedback any time ([email protected] or tap "Help" in the app and scroll to the bottom for chat).
Been looking for exactly this. Was actually going to write a script that grabbed paragraphs of random Spanish news and emailed them to me with the English translations beneath them every morning so I could get some practice every morning in my inbox.
Nice!
Nice!
This is a fantastic idea. I learned Swedish as a child in a very similar fashion through watching tons of movies in english with Swedish subtitles and reading. Having this for digital media seems invaluable.
For anyone learning Swedish as an adult, consider joining the Kodapor groups on Facebook.
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I like it. I like how I can click words or phrases in the article and it translates them directly. The video section es muy bueno también. Gracias por tu ayuda!
Gracias! Feel free to send us feedback in the app, any time (just tap “Help” and scroll to the bottom)
Just tried it out. Seems like a nice idea and can see how it might be useful.
However, for the Android version in Chinese, it's very difficult to get the translations of the words - it defaults to translating entire lines. Also, when you try and adjust the amount that is being selected, if it hasn't finished reading out the whole line, you get two chunks being read simultaneously.
However, for the Android version in Chinese, it's very difficult to get the translations of the words - it defaults to translating entire lines. Also, when you try and adjust the amount that is being selected, if it hasn't finished reading out the whole line, you get two chunks being read simultaneously.
Hey, thanks for the feedback. We definitely need to improve the app for Chinese - word tokenization is much harder here so we don't handle word selection well right now. Our app is most polished for languages like Spanish, French, German, Italian, and Russian.
Stay tuned though! We definitely want to make it work just as well for Chinese in the future!
Stay tuned though! We definitely want to make it work just as well for Chinese in the future!
I thought that would be the case. I tried it in French and I understood the app much better.
Though one other thing, it didn't seem that clear how to add words to flashcards. I later figured out that it automatically adds them when you click translate, but might be better to have an option to add them or not? Or at least a little notification saying "flashcard added".
Though one other thing, it didn't seem that clear how to add words to flashcards. I later figured out that it automatically adds them when you click translate, but might be better to have an option to add them or not? Or at least a little notification saying "flashcard added".
Great feedback. We plan on adding both - a notification, as well as a button to add and remove flashcards after tapping.
Cool idea, I like the thought behind this app. Having tried a lot of other language apps, and not getting much use out of them but learning how to play a game (even after finishing), seems definitely more immersive imo. Just downloaded the Android version, will give it a whirl. If you have a support forum, would definitely give feedback and potential bugs.
Thanks! Feel free to email us feedback at [email protected] or contact us in-app by tapping "Help" and scrolling to the bottom.
The app doesn't work very well on iPhone X devices (due to the notch)... Once that's fixed I'll give it a try properly!
Thanks for letting us know. Can you email us [email protected] so we can investigate?
I like this conceptually, as I think media immersion is a good way for an intermediate/advanced language learner to continue with their progress; however, I can't find a way to use this on my laptop. Your tagline says:
"Infinite content on mobile, tablet, desktop."
However, I only see mobile versions available as downloads. How do I use it on the desktop?
"Infinite content on mobile, tablet, desktop."
However, I only see mobile versions available as downloads. How do I use it on the desktop?
You can use Flowlingo on desktop/laptop at https://reader.getflowlingo.com - the mobile apps are definitely the most polished at this point which is why we’d prefer people start there first (we send a follow up email after registration with desktop info). Feel free to message us feedback/bugs at any time (tap “Help” and scroll to the bottom). Thanks!
Hi. I just tried doing that with English -> Japanese. It gave me a prompt that said that that language is only available on mobile. I wanted to go back but it would not let me -- and it takes me back there still if I refresh the page (to the original link). Oh no! :D
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Reading the reviews on Google Play, it seems there is some in-app purchase, but on the website, I see no indication paying is needed at some point ( sounds like all is free actually when reading the website) so I am confused...
Almost everything in the app is free - including the tech news. There is a premium subscription to help our tiny team of two fund the development. Subscribers can practice with books (Flowlingo works with any .ePub file), and get more videos (in languages where we have a video library).
You get extra features and Harry Potter if you subscribe: https://www.getflowlingo.com/harrypotter
Nice!
I had a similar idea, learning a language with Twitter.
You'd select a profile and it would crawl all Tweets and create a learning plan from it.
The idea was to learn how people actually talk and not some random DuoLingo stuff.
I had a similar idea, learning a language with Twitter.
You'd select a profile and it would crawl all Tweets and create a learning plan from it.
The idea was to learn how people actually talk and not some random DuoLingo stuff.
On an Android. I like the idea, and am currently studying Korean.
The app is unusably slow, and hangs often. If you want my phone environment, feel free to pm.
Thanks for letting us know. I'm not sure how to PM someone. Email us at [email protected] - we'll investigate and make sure it's fixed.
No ToS, no privacy policy, no physical address, no authors' names... and it wants to roam with me inside my pocket?!?
Privacy Policy: https://reader.getflowlingo.com/privacy.html
Physical Address: 2443 Fillmore St #380-8214 San Francisco, CA 94115
Authors' names: Matt Kelly, Lev Popov
Physical Address: 2443 Fillmore St #380-8214 San Francisco, CA 94115
Authors' names: Matt Kelly, Lev Popov
Great, thanks!
With growing concerns related to both privacy and malicious mobile apps, maybe it would be a good idea to make at least an "about" page telling who you are and what info is collected.
With growing concerns related to both privacy and malicious mobile apps, maybe it would be a good idea to make at least an "about" page telling who you are and what info is collected.
Flowlingo dev here: Thanks for the suggestion - all this info is linked from app store pages (I'm guessing this is where the person above found it). Having a separate about page on the website is a great idea as well, we'll add that.
I didn't installed it on Android, as it asks for too much permisions: why this app requires contact access, call info, etc...?
And no list of supported languages.
Only accepting US phone numbers for a non-region-specific app in [current year]?
Hey - the phone number is just a convenience if you want to text the app store link to you phone (from the desktop landing page). You don't need a phone number to use Flowlingo, and we don't ask for anything other than email when you register.
I'm a little confused about how this works, and the site doesn't answer my question readily.
What is the source? The "Browse any website" claim implies that you're translating on the fly and then I learn by translating back to English. Is this the case?
What is the source? The "Browse any website" claim implies that you're translating on the fly and then I learn by translating back to English. Is this the case?
Hey, thanks for the feedback on the site being confusing. Will update to make it more clear!
All content is native content in the foreign language you are learning. Suppose you are learning Spanish - we'll show you a feed of popular news articles originally written in Spanish so you can practice by reading those. There is machine translation built in for words or sentences that you might need help with. We'll even automatically create flashcards for you for words you look up, to help you review with spaced repetition later.
When we say "browse any website" we mean that Flowlingo can be used as a general purpose browser - you can navigate to any website in Spanish and use the same learning tools to practice!
All content is native content in the foreign language you are learning. Suppose you are learning Spanish - we'll show you a feed of popular news articles originally written in Spanish so you can practice by reading those. There is machine translation built in for words or sentences that you might need help with. We'll even automatically create flashcards for you for words you look up, to help you review with spaced repetition later.
When we say "browse any website" we mean that Flowlingo can be used as a general purpose browser - you can navigate to any website in Spanish and use the same learning tools to practice!
Got it! Thank you for clarifying.
Given the inadequacies of automated translation, it would make more sense if the model was: browse websites written originally in foreign languages, and automatically translate to English (or another known language) for hints.
This is also implied by their suggestion of "learn the culture surrounding a language with local trending news."
This is also implied by their suggestion of "learn the culture surrounding a language with local trending news."
Yep, that's exactly how Flowlingo works! We do the same for books and videos as well (native content in foreign language with ML translation tools to help you read/watch)
Also its not clear if this is just some in-line translation of articles and subtitles using google translate? Something else?