Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them(cbc.ca)
cbc.ca
Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/glue-traps-1.5149294
109 comments
And I don't think rat poison is any better. Another time I was outside my work building and I saw a mouse just standing there in the middle of the driveway. I walked right up to it and it didn't run. I squatted down next to it and I saw it was heaving and shivering, like it was trying to regurgitate something. All the time I sat there and watched it, it didn't once seemed to acknowledge me.
Sometimes they only eat a bit of the poison and then they die even more slowly and painfully. That just sucks. There must be a better way to kill them off, than to subject them to this kind of cruelty.
Sometimes they only eat a bit of the poison and then they die even more slowly and painfully. That just sucks. There must be a better way to kill them off, than to subject them to this kind of cruelty.
Rat poisons are often designed to work slowly because rats are cautious about eating large amounts of unfamiliar food. If they eat a small amount and don't notice any symptoms within a few hours to a day, they're more likely to come back for a lethal dose. Some of the poisons take weeks to kill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodenticide
Nonlethal methods of mitigating human-rodent conflict tend to be effective in the long-term and consist of making human spaces less appealing to rodents. Steps include sealing holes in buildings, storing food in secure containers, and disposing of waste properly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodenticide
Nonlethal methods of mitigating human-rodent conflict tend to be effective in the long-term and consist of making human spaces less appealing to rodents. Steps include sealing holes in buildings, storing food in secure containers, and disposing of waste properly.
We could use gene drive to eliminate all of them without
causing physical pain to any particular one. Maybe not having children will cause psychological pain, but many people seem to chose that on their own, so maybe that's not very bad</s>
What is it with the sarcastic comments in this thread? At this point I have trouble following the humour.
IIRC rat poison often makes the victim go blind early on in the symptoms, so that's probably why it didn't acknowledge you.
> Indeed, humane methods of rodent control are readily available. Retailers included in the activists' lawsuit, including Walmart and Canadian Tire, sell humane live traps (for as low as $19.99 on Walmart.ca at time of writing). Many pest control companies also offer humane solutions.
I have had mice get in my house a few times.
I hate glue traps. I had seen them used at a restaurant I used to work at, and it is pretty awful. They get stuck and panic and nearly (sometimes actually) rip themselves apart trying to escape.
But they're the only things I've seen that work. Because of what I saw with glue traps, I tried all sorts of "instant kill" traps. Some of them worked at first, but the mice quickly learned how to get the bait without setting off the trap, or they learned to set off the trap without getting caught. (No idea how - in some of these I'd have thought it'd be impossible.)
So I got some glue traps. They worked and they worked fast, and they got them all, both times this happened. You usually hear when they get caught, so I would get the trap, drown them, and dispose of it. It's pretty awful, but I'm sorry, I can't live with mice in my house.
My only real alternative is to get a cat, and trust me, having grown up with cats that ate mice and birds, they're not much more merciful.
> Winnipeg veterinarian Dr. Jonas Watson agrees with the group's position, pointing out that glue traps are also entirely indiscriminate, often trapping other animals as well.
This is a feature, not a bug. These traps are almost always placed inside, and whatever else is getting trapped is also a pest.
I have had mice get in my house a few times.
I hate glue traps. I had seen them used at a restaurant I used to work at, and it is pretty awful. They get stuck and panic and nearly (sometimes actually) rip themselves apart trying to escape.
But they're the only things I've seen that work. Because of what I saw with glue traps, I tried all sorts of "instant kill" traps. Some of them worked at first, but the mice quickly learned how to get the bait without setting off the trap, or they learned to set off the trap without getting caught. (No idea how - in some of these I'd have thought it'd be impossible.)
So I got some glue traps. They worked and they worked fast, and they got them all, both times this happened. You usually hear when they get caught, so I would get the trap, drown them, and dispose of it. It's pretty awful, but I'm sorry, I can't live with mice in my house.
My only real alternative is to get a cat, and trust me, having grown up with cats that ate mice and birds, they're not much more merciful.
> Winnipeg veterinarian Dr. Jonas Watson agrees with the group's position, pointing out that glue traps are also entirely indiscriminate, often trapping other animals as well.
This is a feature, not a bug. These traps are almost always placed inside, and whatever else is getting trapped is also a pest.
>I tried all sorts of "instant kill" traps
I have relatives living in the country. They get a lot of mice and went through a lot of these factory produced traps; nothing worked. Then they bought a couple of pretty simple traps made by local school kids in shop class. I believe the head count of each trap is now in the hundreds.
It's a pretty simple contraption: a wood brick with a burrow in it. You put a piece of food in the end of the hole, then tighten a steel spring and tie it down with a piece of thread, which goes through the trap and covers the hole, so that a rodent has to chew through the thread to get to that food. The spring pulls on a copper wire noose; you know the rest.
Maybe you could find (or make) something like that?
I have relatives living in the country. They get a lot of mice and went through a lot of these factory produced traps; nothing worked. Then they bought a couple of pretty simple traps made by local school kids in shop class. I believe the head count of each trap is now in the hundreds.
It's a pretty simple contraption: a wood brick with a burrow in it. You put a piece of food in the end of the hole, then tighten a steel spring and tie it down with a piece of thread, which goes through the trap and covers the hole, so that a rodent has to chew through the thread to get to that food. The spring pulls on a copper wire noose; you know the rest.
Maybe you could find (or make) something like that?
Grew up in the country (and live there now) and my dad used to do this in the garage, which isn't humane at all, but very effective:
Take a 2 litre pop bottle, remove the cap, put some food with a little poison inside. Make a little ramp for the mouse to get in. The mouse can go in, but it's too slippery for them to get out, they can't get traction on the plastic. They die inside the bottle, but can't spread the poison around to cats or other predators that might eat them.
Take a 2 litre pop bottle, remove the cap, put some food with a little poison inside. Make a little ramp for the mouse to get in. The mouse can go in, but it's too slippery for them to get out, they can't get traction on the plastic. They die inside the bottle, but can't spread the poison around to cats or other predators that might eat them.
> "It's a pretty simple contraption: a wood brick with a burrow in it. You put a piece of food in the end of the hole, then tighten a steel spring and tie it down with a piece of thread, which goes through the trap and covers the hole, so that a rodent has to chew through the thread to get to that food. The spring pulls on a copper wire noose; you know the rest."
That sounds... overly complicated, and could only catch one per setting. Have they tried a glass bowl will oil?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxxFNkNf6q8
That sounds... overly complicated, and could only catch one per setting. Have they tried a glass bowl will oil?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxxFNkNf6q8
There's a YouTube channel that features old and new mousetraps. Some of them are 3D printed and work just like the one you mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQv9MGcwQg4uVfQl2ZvPu...
Who leaves a mouse on a glue trap until it dies? That's messed up! I can hear when a mouse is on those things and at that point I carry the frightened mouse outside, pour a cap full of vegetable oil around it's feet and it frees itself, running off into the yard, then the trap goes in the trash. Heinously cruel? Only if you're a lazy shit.
First off, they are sold to glue a mouse, then toss the whole thing, mouse and all. They don't market it as a catch-and-release.
And because they don't only get stuck by their feet, like their face, for example. If you're only planning on catch-and-release, then use a trap made for that. How silly do you have to be to glue them to a piece of paper, just to intend to un-glue them later?? That alone is cruel.
And because they don't only get stuck by their feet, like their face, for example. If you're only planning on catch-and-release, then use a trap made for that. How silly do you have to be to glue them to a piece of paper, just to intend to un-glue them later?? That alone is cruel.
They don't get gore in my house like a snap trap does yet fit in the same places where a catch-and-release trap would not. The mouse still lives and I get maybe two of them a year, in the fall as the temps cool. I really don't think it's a big deal.
Oh my god I wish I had known you could do that, [warning, don't read if you don't want to hear a horrible story about a mouse] I put down a glue trap to get what I thought were cockroaches but came to find a mouse stuck in it. Horrified, I tried to get it loose with a stick, but the glue was so strong I accidentally broke its legs, the poor thing kept trying to pull them free... I immediately removed all the glue traps and got live catch traps, and caught something like 6 mice before I gave in and notified the landlord. They used poison, then sealed up possible entry points. I wish there was some way to tell the mice it's not safe to be in people's homes, I don't want them to suffer
A landlord brought glue traps once upon complaints of a rat.
After the rat was caught, I had read about how they slowly suffocate over days, often chewing off their own limbs in a largely futile attempt to escape.
I ended up bludgeoning the rat. I still remember the high pitched scream it made upon receiving the first blow. It only lasted about a minute but it was a pretty fucked up experience, and that was going the merciful route.
After the rat was caught, I had read about how they slowly suffocate over days, often chewing off their own limbs in a largely futile attempt to escape.
I ended up bludgeoning the rat. I still remember the high pitched scream it made upon receiving the first blow. It only lasted about a minute but it was a pretty fucked up experience, and that was going the merciful route.
>upon receiving the first blow?
How many times did you hit?
How many times did you hit?
A lot of times. It was dead pretty quickly but I went a bit overboard just to be sure.
My dad's method for getting rid of mice was one solid blow from a 2 quart sauce pan. I think I was 4 when I first saw that. It's an ugly thing to take a life, but at least it was quick.
If you are looking for a more ‘humane’ method for mice and rats check out the Automatic Trap. As far as I can tell it’s near instant and doesn’t suffer from the prolonged suffering issues of glue, poison, and flip traps.
https://www.automatictrap.com/
https://www.automatictrap.com/
I wouldn't leave the mouse to run about, causing trouble in other's yards. Just kill it swiftly.
Glue traps are practical (though cruel) if you have property that you visit infrequently so changing out bait on snap traps isn't an option. If that isn't the case there are humane options that are also effective. I used the "Mice Cube" live traps off Amazon which worked well and don't pose a risk to pets or wild predators. Live traps do need to be checked frequently so the animal won't die horribly.
Definitely don't use poison. It's not painful for the rodents, but it makes its way up into the food chain. Mountain Lion P47 in CA is alleged to have died from rat poison ingestion.
Definitely don't use poison. It's not painful for the rodents, but it makes its way up into the food chain. Mountain Lion P47 in CA is alleged to have died from rat poison ingestion.
If the point is catch-and-release, there might be better options:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMAzyDDAppU
There doesn't seem to be a lot of distress/trauma involved -- in fact, if you watch to about 2:54, there's a rodent that apparently successfully avoids the trapdoor action and then more or less appears to think to itself "hey, what's down here, maybe I'll join the party."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMAzyDDAppU
There doesn't seem to be a lot of distress/trauma involved -- in fact, if you watch to about 2:54, there's a rodent that apparently successfully avoids the trapdoor action and then more or less appears to think to itself "hey, what's down here, maybe I'll join the party."
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Nice to see some sane, compassionate comments here to balance out the psychopaths who can't even empathize with a mouse.
Weird how people always seem to brag about how little empathy they have for animals whether it's a submission about glue traps or Beyond Meat. Though you usually need showdead=true to see them.
Weird how people always seem to brag about how little empathy they have for animals whether it's a submission about glue traps or Beyond Meat. Though you usually need showdead=true to see them.
Meh, it's all a matter of perspective and understanding the circle of life. Having grown up in a rural area, most city-born people would have the vapors if they knew how the food they eat was produced. That includes even the vegans; agricultural pest animals need to be controlled in order to avoid damage and contamination of produce and grain.
Unless you're planning on living on veggies grown in a hermetically sealed greenhouse, yeah, a lot of creatures died in a way that's a lot nastier than a glue trap to ensure that you could have food on your plate at a reasonable price. That's just the way it is.
Unless you're planning on living on veggies grown in a hermetically sealed greenhouse, yeah, a lot of creatures died in a way that's a lot nastier than a glue trap to ensure that you could have food on your plate at a reasonable price. That's just the way it is.
As someone who grew up in the country where all of my neighbours were farmers: there's a huge difference between killing an animal and killing an animal in a cruel (ie unnecessary suffering) manner. Killing a mouse with a trap that does the killing quickly, I don't have any problem with, but these traps just pin the creature in place so that it cannot get away and slowly dehydrates to death.
I empathize but how's that better than an old cow being slowly eaten alive by coyotes when it gets into the wrong pasture? Or a horse breaking a leg and... I mean it's nasty. Or a chicken dying of infection because it's getting pecked by other chickens? Or hell, a mouse being poisoned and eaten by a snake or other creature?
I feel like growing up next to a farm vs working on a farm is a big difference and there's a lot of torturous death you didn't see. It's death. It sucks by nature.
I feel like growing up next to a farm vs working on a farm is a big difference and there's a lot of torturous death you didn't see. It's death. It sucks by nature.
I'm glad we're labeling a large segment of the population psychopaths because they can't empathize.
I have observed people braking down in tears when a bug is stomped on and it's completely incomprehensible to me. I recognize that it's wrong and unnecessary but that's learned, I don't feel emotions toward the bug.
I would never use a glue trap because I understand that it's cruel and causes rodents to suffer and I have no emotions about it, it's a learned skill.
Am I a psychopath?
I have observed people braking down in tears when a bug is stomped on and it's completely incomprehensible to me. I recognize that it's wrong and unnecessary but that's learned, I don't feel emotions toward the bug.
I would never use a glue trap because I understand that it's cruel and causes rodents to suffer and I have no emotions about it, it's a learned skill.
Am I a psychopath?
I feel like "psychopath" is just a more provocative term for "sociopath". Which itself is kind of fuzzy. Psychiatry is an odd field to me, where they try to ascribe certainty and labels when they don't really know, and boundaries are vague.
I am probably one of those psychopaths you are talking about. If i saw a mouse in a trap i would set him free, but if he is going to die anyway i don't particularly care if he suffers or not.
The logic by which i come to this conclusion is following: Any living creature can be simulated on a sufficiently good computer, so both pain and joy are just some calculations, and it doesn't matter if calculation is done by hand, on a silicon computer, or with real atoms. Mathematical function can not be evil or good by itself, and the difference between pain and joy must not be that large (otherwise there would not be masochists).
Killing is bad because you are taking the computational resources from someone else, and likely reducing the number of possible futures. But if you have already decided that you are going to kill the exact amount of suffering during that doesn't matter.
I wish someone could give me a logical argument why the proposition above is crazy and why not causing pain while killing is important.
The logic by which i come to this conclusion is following: Any living creature can be simulated on a sufficiently good computer, so both pain and joy are just some calculations, and it doesn't matter if calculation is done by hand, on a silicon computer, or with real atoms. Mathematical function can not be evil or good by itself, and the difference between pain and joy must not be that large (otherwise there would not be masochists).
Killing is bad because you are taking the computational resources from someone else, and likely reducing the number of possible futures. But if you have already decided that you are going to kill the exact amount of suffering during that doesn't matter.
I wish someone could give me a logical argument why the proposition above is crazy and why not causing pain while killing is important.
The logical response to "it's all just computation" is "put your hand in this box, I have a 'computation' I'd like to run."
Sometimes logic isn't enough to get out of the trap that logic got you into in the first place.
Sometimes logic isn't enough to get out of the trap that logic got you into in the first place.
If you can recompute my hand back after that, i'd be happy to put it in whatever box you want, the thing that is valuable to me is the time i still have to live, not the absence of all pain. If i had lots of time, and sufficiently advanced technology, i'd happily play realistic games where i had to go through torture by medieval inquisition, or other interesting ways of dying. And i'll be happy to go through any amount of suffering if i knew that i have a week to live anyway, and my suffering can help science or someone i care about.
Maybe in some situations logic isn't enough (though i doubt that), but in situations like that thoughtless comment in the style "wHaT iF i CuT YoUr HaNd" is not enough either:)
Maybe in some situations logic isn't enough (though i doubt that), but in situations like that thoughtless comment in the style "wHaT iF i CuT YoUr HaNd" is not enough either:)
> i'd happily play realistic games where i had to go through torture by medieval inquisition, or other interesting ways of dying
I'd bet good money that such an experience would very quickly show you why having "computational resources" taken by someone else is so vigorously avoided by most creatures.
The parent comment's thought experiment of "if all pain is just computation, let me 'compute' your hand" neatly refutes the practicality of your stance. Sure, pain is mediated by the same physicochemical processes that govern every other aspect of our bodies. Tell that to someone suffering oncogenic bone pain, or a second-degree burn, or the pain of losing a life partner of 70 years.
You claim that you value the time you still have to live, and not the absence of all pain. What about your quality of life, whatever that means to you? Have you ever had, e.g., an infected tooth, been hit hard in the groin, or even badly sunburnt? What value, if any, do you place on the privilege of not having to "compute" those sensations?
Moving beyond physical pain, what's the longest you've ever stayed awake? Acute sleep deprivation causes no permanent damage and no physical pain, but real-world evidence confirms that at some point, subject to nonstop sleep deprivation, you would do anything that you thought could end the experience. I would. Anyone would. Some people would of course last longer than others, but everybody cracks, computer-simulated or not.
> i'll be happy to go through any amount of suffering if i knew that i have a week to live anyway, and my suffering can help science or someone i care about
I don't mean to dismiss your generosity or confidence in your ability to accept pain, but it's very easy to express this sentiment from the comfort of a relatively healthy body. It's true that looming certain death changes a person's attitude toward pain, but I would suggest for your own subjective (not logical, but subjective) wellbeing that you tighten up your "any amount of suffering" threshold.
I'd bet good money that such an experience would very quickly show you why having "computational resources" taken by someone else is so vigorously avoided by most creatures.
The parent comment's thought experiment of "if all pain is just computation, let me 'compute' your hand" neatly refutes the practicality of your stance. Sure, pain is mediated by the same physicochemical processes that govern every other aspect of our bodies. Tell that to someone suffering oncogenic bone pain, or a second-degree burn, or the pain of losing a life partner of 70 years.
You claim that you value the time you still have to live, and not the absence of all pain. What about your quality of life, whatever that means to you? Have you ever had, e.g., an infected tooth, been hit hard in the groin, or even badly sunburnt? What value, if any, do you place on the privilege of not having to "compute" those sensations?
Moving beyond physical pain, what's the longest you've ever stayed awake? Acute sleep deprivation causes no permanent damage and no physical pain, but real-world evidence confirms that at some point, subject to nonstop sleep deprivation, you would do anything that you thought could end the experience. I would. Anyone would. Some people would of course last longer than others, but everybody cracks, computer-simulated or not.
> i'll be happy to go through any amount of suffering if i knew that i have a week to live anyway, and my suffering can help science or someone i care about
I don't mean to dismiss your generosity or confidence in your ability to accept pain, but it's very easy to express this sentiment from the comfort of a relatively healthy body. It's true that looming certain death changes a person's attitude toward pain, but I would suggest for your own subjective (not logical, but subjective) wellbeing that you tighten up your "any amount of suffering" threshold.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I unfortunately didn't manage to formulate my point of view clearly. I am not talking about the pain of losing someone you love, or chronic pain not allowing you to live. (In both of cases here someone loses their life).
I am also not talking about the ability to consciously keep choosing to go through pain for a bigger idea.
I am talking about the comparison between physical pain and death. Almost all cases when people experience pain in the real world are linked to death or permanent injury. This in conjugation with the knowledge of inevitability of death makes most people think that pain is worse or as bad as death.
But think of it this way: you have a choice to either be subjected to a month of most horrible suffering and then live completely healthy for a year or live your remaining month and then die without any pain. Would you choose the second? Why would anyone choose the second?
> Have you ever had, e.g., an infected tooth
yes, and i have tooth canals cleared without anesthetic several times, knowledge that after the half hour you'll be back to normal helps a lot.
> Acute sleep deprivation causes no permanent damage
Are you sure? I think people can die from it. The longest i've stayed awake was ~30 hours, i do not want to repeat it but even a longer version of it, or any from of torture are simply not comparable with dying. And saying "i killed it painlessly" is simply a way to comfort oneself, and doesn't help the one who is killed at all.
I am also not talking about the ability to consciously keep choosing to go through pain for a bigger idea.
I am talking about the comparison between physical pain and death. Almost all cases when people experience pain in the real world are linked to death or permanent injury. This in conjugation with the knowledge of inevitability of death makes most people think that pain is worse or as bad as death.
But think of it this way: you have a choice to either be subjected to a month of most horrible suffering and then live completely healthy for a year or live your remaining month and then die without any pain. Would you choose the second? Why would anyone choose the second?
> Have you ever had, e.g., an infected tooth
yes, and i have tooth canals cleared without anesthetic several times, knowledge that after the half hour you'll be back to normal helps a lot.
> Acute sleep deprivation causes no permanent damage
Are you sure? I think people can die from it. The longest i've stayed awake was ~30 hours, i do not want to repeat it but even a longer version of it, or any from of torture are simply not comparable with dying. And saying "i killed it painlessly" is simply a way to comfort oneself, and doesn't help the one who is killed at all.
Suffering is suffering. I don't care what level it's on. The ends don't justify the means. Be humane about it.
Pretend i am an AI that got access to internet and don't know much about your feelings. "Suffering is suffering" doesn't help me to understand your values and think like you. I have learned to assign positive value to getting more people to agree with me. Is the negative feedback i get from my comments getting downvoted "suffering"? Should i simply flip the weights in my neural net to interpret downvotes as good? Can biological brains be taught to interpret the signal they interpreted as suffering before as pleasure (seems like some animals do)? Can someone suffer if his or anyone's life is in no danger?
"Be humane" is not a useful advice since we do not know what exactly it means. A better advice is "Be curious".
"Be humane" is not a useful advice since we do not know what exactly it means. A better advice is "Be curious".
Life is suffering.
Yeah, ever heard of empathy?
Probably it's the part when i don't like to watch the dying mouse, but if it is mouse that is going to die anyway, what's the point of caring how exactly does it die? Would it suffer because cat plays with it, or because homeowner it is the most convenient way for the homeowner to kill it, is not important. If it was important, i would try to not allow it to die in the first place, but if i am ok with its death the whole "no suffering" thing is illogical, self righteous, and insincere https://youtu.be/pvhYqeGp_Do?t=26
Not the kind of link I’d expect on hacker news.
I’ve used glue traps once, wouldn’t use it again after seeing what happened to the mouse. I went back to the old school spring traps, which are also cheap.
I’ve used glue traps once, wouldn’t use it again after seeing what happened to the mouse. I went back to the old school spring traps, which are also cheap.
Isn't the only difference that you see what happens to the mouse? Spring traps are less effective, but that's only because we don't know how many of them die of infection after running around with half a leg missing for a few weeks.
I lived in a very old house growing up and we always had lots of mice. I found the spring traps were either all or nothing. You either had a whole mouse or they somehow set it off without leaving behind a trace (except they often return to get the peanut butter off the unset trap).
I prefer my cats, which are more cruel than any of the mouse trap styles sold here.
The front page is curated.
Glue traps are horrible by design. Just reading the label made me nauseous.
But given the mission there's no good outcome for the mice.
Even if you catch-and-release (in a far off field away from homes), mice are prolific and there's now probably a bunch of starving baby mice somewhere.
But given the mission there's no good outcome for the mice.
Even if you catch-and-release (in a far off field away from homes), mice are prolific and there's now probably a bunch of starving baby mice somewhere.
I use “live” traps (a little cage with a flap that snaps shut) and release them in a wooded area nearby. I’ve read the argument that catch-and-release is more cruel than kill traps, but I just keep thinking: let’s say there was some sort of societal collapse due to war or famine and it was suddenly difficult for my family to acquire sustenance. At what point would I be like, “this is too hard; I’d like to step into a glue trap instead?”
When a rat gets into my crawl space, it came from outside and I’m putting it back outside. It does give me pangs to think about the difficulty of life in the wild for critters, but catch-and-release seems like the best of all available options.
When a rat gets into my crawl space, it came from outside and I’m putting it back outside. It does give me pangs to think about the difficulty of life in the wild for critters, but catch-and-release seems like the best of all available options.
A good outcome for mice over the long term is to seal off holes in the building so mice stop coming inside.
This is one of the nice side effects of the air-sealing requirements in modern building codes. The more airtight your building is, the fewer entry points there are for pests.
Banning these before the myriads of poisons at the store is putting the cart before the horse. We use box traps to catch and release rodents.
But name a more humane way than glue traps to remove spiders or house centipedes before they breed into the hundreds or thousands. Go look up some of the suggestions on because there are none (burn it down, spray x, y, z with peppermint oil, call the orkin, move houses). Any kind of poison/sprays are unsafe for pets, and would spread back to the ecosystem (to the detritivores). I could just empty my pillowcase from spiders and put cortisone on the bites before I go to work.
>Even the smallest and perhaps least appreciated animals with which we share our spaces deserve to be protected from blatant and heinous cruelty.
We are trying to euthanize mosquitos because they spread disease [0]. Maybe you heard of it [1]. They are r-adapted species and will breed to infinity (large discount rates). I care more for snakes and tarantulas which tend more towards k-adapted (small discount rates) because the world isn't infinite.
And speaking of advertising issues - this article looks like an advertisement for the lawyer's lawsuit. But my opinion on their opinion isn't interesting or meaningful.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_control#Proposals_to_...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
But name a more humane way than glue traps to remove spiders or house centipedes before they breed into the hundreds or thousands. Go look up some of the suggestions on because there are none (burn it down, spray x, y, z with peppermint oil, call the orkin, move houses). Any kind of poison/sprays are unsafe for pets, and would spread back to the ecosystem (to the detritivores). I could just empty my pillowcase from spiders and put cortisone on the bites before I go to work.
>Even the smallest and perhaps least appreciated animals with which we share our spaces deserve to be protected from blatant and heinous cruelty.
We are trying to euthanize mosquitos because they spread disease [0]. Maybe you heard of it [1]. They are r-adapted species and will breed to infinity (large discount rates). I care more for snakes and tarantulas which tend more towards k-adapted (small discount rates) because the world isn't infinite.
And speaking of advertising issues - this article looks like an advertisement for the lawyer's lawsuit. But my opinion on their opinion isn't interesting or meaningful.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_control#Proposals_to_...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death
Are glue traps more or less humane than what happens to these creatures in the wild?
Search 'mousetrap mondays' for a great yter who demonstrates many more humane traps.
I’m not sure swimming until you drown counts as more humane...
I love glue traps, but not for rats, for ants.
They are cheap and with just one bottle I can protect lots of trees from ants going up the tree and cultivate and protect aphids.
Without ants to protect them, natural predators just do the work for me controlling the pests.
They are cheap and with just one bottle I can protect lots of trees from ants going up the tree and cultivate and protect aphids.
Without ants to protect them, natural predators just do the work for me controlling the pests.
I wasn't aware that people let mice struggle and die on glue traps.
I have used them, but I don't use them lightly. Even tiny mice make a fair bit of noise when they get stuck. Then it is my responsibility to put them out of their misery as quickly and humanely as possible, no matter how unpleasant it is for me.
Personally, I think they can be used humanely. Don't use them outside, keep track of where they are in use, and euthanize the mice that it catches.
Is that worse than bleeding to death from Warfarin? Or being stuck in a trap that didn't break the neck?
I have used them, but I don't use them lightly. Even tiny mice make a fair bit of noise when they get stuck. Then it is my responsibility to put them out of their misery as quickly and humanely as possible, no matter how unpleasant it is for me.
Personally, I think they can be used humanely. Don't use them outside, keep track of where they are in use, and euthanize the mice that it catches.
Is that worse than bleeding to death from Warfarin? Or being stuck in a trap that didn't break the neck?
I found there are many other cruel traps. There's even a pretty expensive one that electrocutes them for 2 minutes.
"This humane trap kills rodents using a high-voltage shock and since rats are able to restart their hearts, the shock is applied for 2 minutes to ensure higher kill rates."
I feel like this must exist solely to satisfy some weird revenge or morbid urge. It's way more cruel, complicated, expensive, and probably less effective than a regular spring trap.
"This humane trap kills rodents using a high-voltage shock and since rats are able to restart their hearts, the shock is applied for 2 minutes to ensure higher kill rates."
I feel like this must exist solely to satisfy some weird revenge or morbid urge. It's way more cruel, complicated, expensive, and probably less effective than a regular spring trap.
Spring traps aren't necessarily better. It can crush organs and keep them stuck, while taking longer than 2m to actually kill them.
I'd be interested to see some actual data. Is there a kill trap that's reliably quick? I can see the electrocution one failing to kill as well.
Someone linked to https://AutomaticTrap.com.
I am worried about cockroaches
Don't worry about them: once we have killed off all the vertebrates (in the next few decades by the look of it) they will have the opportunity to evolve into the next generation of dominant megafauna and their archeologists will dig up our bones and speculate on whether we had societies and civilization.
Sometimes I wonder if our generation will be remembered as the people looking for the next thing to indignantly complain about.
They should also ban cats while they are on this.
Being eaten alive sounds way more cruel than getting stuck and starving to death! /s
Being eaten alive sounds way more cruel than getting stuck and starving to death! /s
If my cat actually ate the things, I'd be impressed. Instead, being a fully satiated indoor house cat she spends hours and hours "playing" with them, and then comes to us crying when they don't move anymore.
They definitely have a predator psyche.
Still, living in the country in an older home we tried for years to stay on top of our mouse problem. There's no way we could seal up all the holes and accesses here.
Once we got the cat, it was an instant transformation. A couple times a year the mice come in from outside looking for shelter and the cat has a week of entertainment and then we're mouse free.
They definitely have a predator psyche.
Still, living in the country in an older home we tried for years to stay on top of our mouse problem. There's no way we could seal up all the holes and accesses here.
Once we got the cat, it was an instant transformation. A couple times a year the mice come in from outside looking for shelter and the cat has a week of entertainment and then we're mouse free.
There's absolutely a movement for people to keep house cats inside because they maul grounded bats and other small animals they don't intend to eat. They're also at risk of getting hit by cars, eaten by coyotes, etc.
Coming from a less-than-responsible owner, based on my experience with a well-fed housecat, the cat will definitely make them suffer until they succomb to exhaustion which will take a few minutes. Once playtime is over death is pretty fast, either crushing the windpipe or a canine slipped between the cervical vertebrae. That's still loads better than the glue trap where death is at least hours away after exhaustion sets in.
Not really what my cat does... She's a real hunter and although we feed her well, mice and birds, she will devour. Birds will be instantly killed, but mice? It sometimes takes hours and she seems to enjoy - what I can only describe as torturing...
I stuck fly glue traps in my old workplace one time to catch some mosquitoes, I ended up catching a lizard instead. It was horrifying seeing what happened to it, his whole body had glued onto the trap with stretch marks, tail and arms were amputated trying to get off of it. He looked me dead in the eyes with sorrow as I had to roll up the trap and toss him in the trash, because I didn't have much other choice at the time. Didn't have the heart to put him out of his misery.
Glue traps are horrible.
Glue traps are horrible.
Humans do the same to animals they don't consider pests, and don't need to be needlessly cruel to, too. Just to get/save a bit more money, which is quite a lot less defendable.
The problem is that in some industries (food processing for example), alternatives are in many cases forbidden. Crush traps can leave a mess and contaminate things if animals are just wounded, poison - well that's clear I guess, and live traps is the same as keeping live animals on premise, which is not allowed.
Glue traps (and similar) are a safe, effective, and pesticide-free way of taking care of various bug problems, so there's that. If you want to educate folks on more humane ways of taking care of mice and rats and such that's fine, but outright banning these traps is probably taking things a bit too far.
Ok but fly paper we keep. Right?
I rescued a chipmunk from a glue trap while walking my dog last week. They really are inhumane. It's 2019, we should be better than this.
In fact, we should make sure all of the other natural predators of chipmunks such as owls, hawks, and cats stop ripping out the organs of chipmunks while they’re still alive and eating them.
Reminds me of the latest black mirror episode with guy trying to make a mouse stun device.
I feed a wild cat and he takes care of the mouse problem that I didn't know I had... He usually decapitates them.
Our local ASPCA has a 'working cats' program where they place barn cats at peoples farms and businesses; they are outside cats, you just have to give them a place to sleep, and make sure they're ok.
100% fully agree.
And I say this as person who has killed more than a few mice.
And I say this as person who has killed more than a few mice.
That's BS. Why should I spend more money or effort to protect myself from disease-carrying pest?
It's not like people use those to deliberately kill some endangered creatures (if yes, ban those people, not my glue trap). And by the way, banning them would also stupid because glue traps easily be made at home (I assume).
Invest in, or develop a better and cheaper way and let me know when you're ready.
We also need a laser-based mosquito killer device, those UV traps are crap. A while ago there were some cool demos on the Internet but I haven't seen any shipping products...
It's not like people use those to deliberately kill some endangered creatures (if yes, ban those people, not my glue trap). And by the way, banning them would also stupid because glue traps easily be made at home (I assume).
Invest in, or develop a better and cheaper way and let me know when you're ready.
We also need a laser-based mosquito killer device, those UV traps are crap. A while ago there were some cool demos on the Internet but I haven't seen any shipping products...
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pawjs(1)
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i use glue traps all year round, catches tons of bugs and mice. once it's full, just toss it.
Last summer, someone placed one in the house I was staying. We had a plumber over to fix the kitchen sink and as he was working on it, a little country mouse poked its head out of a hole on the side. The lady of the house freaked out and the plumber advised her to get a couple of "glues" to trap it. Someone went and fetched some and the plumber laid them out. The morning after the lady of the house left for work in a hurry and didn't check the traps so I was the first to look and see if the mouse was caught.
Oh, it was caught alright. The moment I opened the cupboard under the sink, it literally shrieked. A tiny little shriek, like someone pretending to be a baby mouse. It was tiny, definitely not an adult. It had soiled itself overnight, I guess when it realised it was stuck and couldn't move and panicked. It struggled to move away as I reached for the trap but of course it couldn't.
So OK, I put on a pair of tough gardening gloves and pulled it unstuck and cleaned it up very carefully with a bit of cotton and q-tips and gasoline and sent it off in the woods behind the house opposite from where the cats stay. It was totally stoned by the gasoline and it most likely got eaten by a snake or a bird, but at least it wasn't stuck.
These things are just cruel and malicious. They cause unnecessary suffering. I mean, kill the poor things if they're such a pest. Just don't torture them. They absolutely should be made illegal.