Spain's conviction of Catalan leaders threatens rights to freedom of expression(amnesty.org)
amnesty.org
Spain's conviction of Catalan leaders threatens rights to freedom of expression
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/11/spain-conviction-for-sedition-of-jordi-sanchez-and-jordi-cuixart-threatens-rights-to-freedom-of-expression-and-peaceful-assembly/
11 comments
Unless amnesty international has been bought by the Catalan separatist movement, we can probably go without "Beware: Propaganda" warnings on every nonagreeing opinion.
There are two sides here, both made up of real people. Further, it's perfectly reasonable (much like in Scotland, and also in Chile where the demand to rewrite a dictator-era constitution draws parallels) that the independentistas might have some coherent arguments. Let's let the reader decide without overtly trying to prime them. I promise they don't need to go far to find pro unionist opinions.
The Catalan separatist movement is not some Russian-made antivax Facebook group.
There are two sides here, both made up of real people. Further, it's perfectly reasonable (much like in Scotland, and also in Chile where the demand to rewrite a dictator-era constitution draws parallels) that the independentistas might have some coherent arguments. Let's let the reader decide without overtly trying to prime them. I promise they don't need to go far to find pro unionist opinions.
The Catalan separatist movement is not some Russian-made antivax Facebook group.
I just commented first on the assertion of the title and article, and then separately commented on the fact that this is a topic where people tend to have strong biases, and the poster looked more fishy than usual.
A caveat emptor, for me, is not priming negatively, in my view - and I explicitly called for taking both sides in consideration. So I guess we both agree.
I agree that it is a fascinating topic, but there have been several discussions here with plain wrong information being spread. Enriquto below already pointed out below, before you answered, funny changes in tone and content among different translations of the article. So yeah, reader beware.
A caveat emptor, for me, is not priming negatively, in my view - and I explicitly called for taking both sides in consideration. So I guess we both agree.
I agree that it is a fascinating topic, but there have been several discussions here with plain wrong information being spread. Enriquto below already pointed out below, before you answered, funny changes in tone and content among different translations of the article. So yeah, reader beware.
Thank you for your comment. Yes I am new to Hacker News but I am very excited to contribute with discussion about technology and citizen engagement. I hope that your reference to that I only have 6 karma is not an effort to discriminate me or my opinions.
Instead of describing a movement of millions of people as propaganda and biasing media I would encourage you to participate in the discussion with links.
Fair point, sorry for mentioning karma: it was taken out of view from comments for a reason.
Nonetheless I think it is fair that we take into account the name, novelty and activity of your account when ascertaining whether you have more intent than talking here about Catalonia. Couple of days before, and HN itself would have alerted it with your name in green.
Nonetheless I think it is fair that we take into account the name, novelty and activity of your account when ascertaining whether you have more intent than talking here about Catalonia. Couple of days before, and HN itself would have alerted it with your name in green.
Funnily enough, the international version uses a much stronger phrasing against the spanish government than the spanish version (lest they offend the spanish members of amnesty who are unionists). I would have thought that, of all organizations, amnesty would refrain to engage in such obvious and orwellian cynicism.
Edit (I add the links):
https://twitter.com/amnesty/status/1196746909924446208
Catalan leaders, Jordi Sànchez & Jordi Cuixart, must be released immediately & their convictions quashed. Their convictions for sedition violates their rights to freedom of expression & peaceful assembly.
https://twitter.com/amnistiaespana/status/119674554755156377...
Hoy hemos presentado en Barcelona nuestras conclusiones tras la sentencia del "procés" -> today we have presented in Barcelona our conclusions to the sentence of "procés"
(the spanish tweet does not announce the conclusion of the study, as opposed of what they do for all other studies that they publish. Are they afraid of their own, rather mild, opposition to the spanish government?)
Edit (I add the links):
https://twitter.com/amnesty/status/1196746909924446208
Catalan leaders, Jordi Sànchez & Jordi Cuixart, must be released immediately & their convictions quashed. Their convictions for sedition violates their rights to freedom of expression & peaceful assembly.
https://twitter.com/amnistiaespana/status/119674554755156377...
Hoy hemos presentado en Barcelona nuestras conclusiones tras la sentencia del "procés" -> today we have presented in Barcelona our conclusions to the sentence of "procés"
(the spanish tweet does not announce the conclusion of the study, as opposed of what they do for all other studies that they publish. Are they afraid of their own, rather mild, opposition to the spanish government?)
More propaganda from the secessionists. You have been using institutional resources to spread your ideas for forty years, it is more than clear to everybody that your freedom of expression is not in jeopardy.
> it is more than clear to everybody that your freedom of expression is not in jeopardy.
Tell that to the two catalan rappers accused of "hatred" on behalf of their (tame, by rap standards) lyrics that taunt spanish policemen. One is about to enter prison and the other one is on exile in Belgium.
Tell that to the two catalan rappers accused of "hatred" on behalf of their (tame, by rap standards) lyrics that taunt spanish policemen. One is about to enter prison and the other one is on exile in Belgium.
I am sorry, but freedom of expression cannot exist without respect. Most of the Catalan political leaders voice their opinions with respect and they get heard everywhere.
You could argue that "hatred" is in jeopardy though, if you feel it's worth.
You could argue that "hatred" is in jeopardy though, if you feel it's worth.
Can you elaborate a bit more your statements? The link provided for the discussion is from Amnesty International.
Please, don't use HN for your propaganda
The proindependence propaganda is very strong, and very focused on biasing international and english-spoken media; I'd ask you to at least please read topics from both sides if you want to be informed and have a balanced opinion.
The submitter account, tsunamid, shares the name ot the violent revolts from the last days, and most probably was created just for spamming this forum (0 comments, 2 proindependence submissions, 6 karma).