A New Problem Is Brewing in the Beer Industry: One Million Kegs Are Going Stale(wsj.com)
wsj.com
A New Problem Is Brewing in the Beer Industry: One Million Kegs Are Going Stale
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-new-problem-is-brewing-in-the-beer-industry-one-million-kegs-are-going-stale-11587733224
120 comments
I’ve been chuckling a fair bit at the changes around here. Alcohol delivery very rapidly became a thing here as the lockdown was looming; local breweries teamed up to put together a website and the logistics to deliver their products together (Want craft brew from these 3 companies? You can get it all in one order!). Other companies are also delivering “mainstream” beer and wine as well. In-person liquor stores are still open as well, with one-way aisles set up and checkout distancing requirements, etc, because they were deemed to be “essential services”.
That’s not what makes me laugh the most though; pot is! Less than two years ago, marijuana was illegal in Canada. Now? The stores themselves are not open, but the local gov’t relaxed restrictions and there’s now a number of same-day delivery services! From illegal to essential in under two years!
That’s not what makes me laugh the most though; pot is! Less than two years ago, marijuana was illegal in Canada. Now? The stores themselves are not open, but the local gov’t relaxed restrictions and there’s now a number of same-day delivery services! From illegal to essential in under two years!
It would be pretty ironic if it became harder to buy pot in legal states than non-legal states because the only sellers left were the ones following the law.
As funny as that would be, I think allowing pot delivery is the right call. No reason to shut down businesses that don't pose much of an infection risk, it's more economic strain we can't afford.
As funny as that would be, I think allowing pot delivery is the right call. No reason to shut down businesses that don't pose much of an infection risk, it's more economic strain we can't afford.
Sounds so much better than milkman tbh!;) That's brilliant concept, definitely need to look into this,maybe one day I could open a microbrewery and become a beer man delivering your weekly dose of foamy nectar.
Most of us don’t have the equipment to tap a keg at home, and I seriously doubt that the rental services for hand pump sankey taps could keep up with the spike in demand.
Growlers
>In Germany we had the “beer man” who would drop off beer weekly and collect the empties. This should be adopted in the USA.
This is standard practice in the US, empty kegs end up back at a brewery where they are sanitized and refilled. Part of the problem reported here is that kegs aren't being used, leading to a lack of kegs available to be refilled.
This is standard practice in the US, empty kegs end up back at a brewery where they are sanitized and refilled. Part of the problem reported here is that kegs aren't being used, leading to a lack of kegs available to be refilled.
No, the beer man in Germany comes to your house and delivers a crate of .5l bottles of beer, and picks them all up the next week with your next delivery. The bottles are washed and are reused (not melted down and recycled).
That - along with the bierautomat - ranks up there with the things I miss most about Germany.
That - along with the bierautomat - ranks up there with the things I miss most about Germany.
Bierautomat is also common in Japan, luckily!
The commenter is talking about weekly scheduled home delivery of cases of beer and soft drinks.
Many communities in the US had similar deliveries for milk back in the day.
Many communities in the US had similar deliveries for milk back in the day.
The local beer store here is doing daily deliveries now, including kegs. They don't say whether they pick up the empty kegs, but if they're bringing a new one they might.
Of course it's geared toward craft brew snobs, so not really a general thing. But it's one step closer than we had before.
Of course it's geared toward craft brew snobs, so not really a general thing. But it's one step closer than we had before.
I think beer delivery like this is tricky here because someone 21+ needs to sign for it. The poor beer guy would end up needing to wait for everyone, and skip houses where nobody was home.
Germany is mostly pils, heff, and radler. The USA has more beer variety, maybe it's more difficult logistically? Companies in the USA do have a beer man, never heard of individual houses hiring one.
The USA has more beer variety, maybe it's more difficult logistically?
No, it's just that for as much that has changed in America since its founding, being a bunch of Puritanical tight asses is still kind of encoded into our societal DNA.
No, it's just that for as much that has changed in America since its founding, being a bunch of Puritanical tight asses is still kind of encoded into our societal DNA.
The Puritans had beer upon arrival, so don't lay this on them.
Yes, beer would be acceptable in moderation by the Puritans and their Protestant descendants. Early Americans advocated temperance rather than complete abstinence. Much of this was a result of seeking a better/perfect society after the American Revolution. Evangelical Protestants spread religion and reform through the USA in what is known as the "Second Great Awakening" from 1790 to 1840. During this time, the temperance movement gained support. This led to a gain in popularity of complete abstinence from alcohol and the formation of various groups advocating for teetotalism. Through the late 1800's and early 1900's prohibitionist movements gained traction including the Anti-Saloon League which was driven by evangelical Protestantism. It was this organization that ultimately led to the Eighteenth Amendment of the United States constitution being ratified and prohibiting sale and manufacture of alcohol.
It has been a battle ever since. The area I live in only recently allowed the sale of liquor in restaurants and bars and still does not sell liquor by the bottle. There were many movements that had influence so perhaps it isn't fair to lay the blame solely on the Puritans, but they did have great influence in regards to alcohol in the USA and the parent isn't wrong, but has certainly omitted details.
It has been a battle ever since. The area I live in only recently allowed the sale of liquor in restaurants and bars and still does not sell liquor by the bottle. There were many movements that had influence so perhaps it isn't fair to lay the blame solely on the Puritans, but they did have great influence in regards to alcohol in the USA and the parent isn't wrong, but has certainly omitted details.
Puritans, mostly because of the modern misunderstanding of the term, are blamed for all enforcement of any vice in the United States. I'm saying that the larger society, made up of different religious beliefs, has its own course and its social institutions are not constantly controlled by the "Puritans".
I think there are a few varieties of regulations across different states regarding the shipment of alcohol. I'm not sure how far they go with respect to "last mile" delivery but it could be an inhibitor in something like this.
For example, I can't purchase wine to be delivered to my home over the internet in my state.
For example, I can't purchase wine to be delivered to my home over the internet in my state.
There are more than a few varieties of regulations in the alcohol business. It’s such a jumbled mess, especially for interstate commerce. Check out freethegrapes.org, they are an industry advocacy group and are sure to have an ongoing lobbying action in your home state to permit direct wine shipment. There’s only a few holdouts still, although many states make it prohibitively cumbersome and expensive for small alcohol businesses to open up direct shipping, even if it may be legal.
We had beer, dairy and bread delivery subscriptions, plus the organic veg delivery -— all pretty nice! In Palo Alto I have subscriptions for dairy, butcher and organic veg. So not that different.
As for beer selection, as in the US the major brands are of a limited nature but there are many small breweries. All subject to the Reinheitsgebot but I doubt it really cramps their style.
As for beer selection, as in the US the major brands are of a limited nature but there are many small breweries. All subject to the Reinheitsgebot but I doubt it really cramps their style.
> My son in college...could easily take care of one before it expired. Hell, we could too.
I'm calling bullshit. Went through this in college. There's 165 12oz beers in a standard keg. If you don't refrigerate it (which you probably can't), that beer is going to go bad well within a week once it's tapped. That means to finish a keg between 2 people you're drinking 11+ beers per person every day. I mean, yeah that's doable, but if you're a normal human being, it's not that fun.
I'm calling bullshit. Went through this in college. There's 165 12oz beers in a standard keg. If you don't refrigerate it (which you probably can't), that beer is going to go bad well within a week once it's tapped. That means to finish a keg between 2 people you're drinking 11+ beers per person every day. I mean, yeah that's doable, but if you're a normal human being, it's not that fun.
11 small beers is not something I would recommend, but its fairly easy if you start in the morning. After a couple or weeks it will probably ruin your immune system which is not a great idea considering current circumstance.
Irishman here. Not to further a cultural stereotype but.. I know plenty of binge drinkers who could put away 20-30 pints[1] over the course of a day-long drinking session. Get a couple of them together and they'd finish a keg that size in 2-3 days.
[1] Imperial pints: 568 ml / 19.2 US fl oz
[1] Imperial pints: 568 ml / 19.2 US fl oz
Not if you use CO2! For less than $100 you can get a regulator, keg tap and pouring spigot -- it'll last for several weeks.
... so I've been told by a "friend".
... so I've been told by a "friend".
They are also sending beer that is expired or can’t be distributed to a nearby craft distiller to be turned into hand sanitizer.
That's an excellent solution, as the demand for the latter has definitely been going up rapidly in the past little while.
That's an excellent solution, as the demand for the latter has definitely been going up rapidly in the past little while.
There have been issues in that many ethanol producers are not licensed to produce medical-grade ethanol, which is what’s required for hand sanitizer. So it hasn’t been entirely straightforward to convert biofuel or drinking alcohol production over.
I can see why sanitizer used in a hospital would have to be "medical-grade", whatever that means. Why would any other sanitizer need this? If the fluid was safe to drink (most alcoholic beverages are sold for this purpose), why wouldn't it be safe to rub on hands?
Hand sanitizer is ordinarily considered a medical product, and is subject to FDA controls. (Medical grade in this context means United States Pharmacoepia [USP]) The requirements for anything put into a medical product are stricter than those for food and drink. That doesn’t mean that it’s any cleaner per se. The link below describes the situation from last month, since then the FDA has temporarily relaxed the regulations to allow compounding of sanitizer using other grades of ethanol. https://www.google.com/amp/s/cbs2iowa.com/amp/news/local/eth...
I don't know about medical-grade but it's usually illegal for a brewery to produce alcohol strong enough to be useful as a sanitizer.
Thread parent referenced a distiller. Distillation is the process that turns fermented products into sanitizer and other wonderful fluids.
There’s really no shortage of ethanol. Gasoline is usually 5-10% ethanol. And with demand on that in disarray...
simple solution: convert it to malt vinegar. this is a natural process caused by introducing a vinegar culture into the beer. then, sell it to the food industry or divert it to your food holdings (hot sauces or snacks.)
this can also be distilled into acetic acid which is used in everything from solvents to cervical cancer screens and the production of precursors for polyvinyl acetate.
this can also be distilled into acetic acid which is used in everything from solvents to cervical cancer screens and the production of precursors for polyvinyl acetate.
I appreciate your second paragraph. That said I couldn’t help think, “A New Problem Sours the Malt Vinegar Industry: One Million Kegs Are Sitting Idle“
It is also trivially easy to turn your old beer into gourmet vinegar :)
https://preserveandpickle.com/how-to-make-a-vinegar-mother/
https://preserveandpickle.com/how-to-make-a-vinegar-mother/
That would ruin all the beer barrels though, which would be an expensive mistake.
Kegs of beer are stainless steel, is vinegar strong enough to ruin that?
It’s not so much the vinegar as it is the acetobacter bacteria that could quickly spoil the next beer to go into it. Brewers typically keep inoculated containers separate from non-inoculated containers to prevent unwanted souring or, in this case, vinegar.
Is it not possible to re-inoculate the container? Seems like that should be a solved problem by now.
Or lager whiskey?
The beer supplier for my local pub actually came by to empty the kegs. They're taking it all back to get get converted into hand sanitizer. Which is a great solution.
As for the pub, they're offering takeout of their normal menu. As well as sell craft beer packages.
As for the pub, they're offering takeout of their normal menu. As well as sell craft beer packages.
We here in South Africa, we have actually banned the sale of alcohol and cigarettes while in lock-down for almost a month now.
That seems like a bad idea. Many people will die without any alcohol. Forcing people inside and then stopping the sales of cigarettes seems like it would create more agression in the short term.
Part of the idea is to curb domestic violence and reduce the strain on emergency services [0]. I personally think that it will also help people budget, as most expected a three week lockdown but the reality is that many could be with reduced income for far longer
[0]: https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/why-alcohol-sale-banned...
[0]: https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/why-alcohol-sale-banned...
The cigarette ban would increase domestic violence as people without any support aid would be forced into limit spaces with partners. How do they justify that decision?
Out of curiosity how exactly would people die without any alcohol?
Withdrawal symptoms (primarily seizures, I believe) can be lethal.
People can be severely addicted to alcohol to the point of physical dependence.
https://www.medscape.com/answers/819502-79121/what-is-the-mo...
"The mortality rate from severe alcohol withdrawal and delirium tremens (DT) historically has been as high as 20% if untreated. Early recognition and improved treatment has reduced the mortality rate from DT to approximately 1-5%"
So this means people either die or go to emergency care with severe symptoms that require hospitalization, which obviously is to be avoided at a time like this.
https://www.medscape.com/answers/819502-79121/what-is-the-mo...
"The mortality rate from severe alcohol withdrawal and delirium tremens (DT) historically has been as high as 20% if untreated. Early recognition and improved treatment has reduced the mortality rate from DT to approximately 1-5%"
So this means people either die or go to emergency care with severe symptoms that require hospitalization, which obviously is to be avoided at a time like this.
[deleted]
Alcohol withdrawal can be fatal in some cases. I have a childhood friend who had multiple seizures from alcohol withdrawal and is it in a semi vegetative state.
Withdrawal symptoms of alcohol addiction can be pretty severe.
I think the OPs point would be it would lead to more aggression and that then would lead to the more deaths.
Now I don't know if that link exists and in fact I suspect it could be the opposite, as many people become more aggressive the more they drink.
Now I don't know if that link exists and in fact I suspect it could be the opposite, as many people become more aggressive the more they drink.
No, they're talking about severe withdrawal.
That sounds like a terrible decision
Though the social results will be fascinating... I'm sure there are researchers salivating over this opportunity.
And suddenly grocery stores are setting up displays of pineapples, sugar, and yeast.
Everything old is new again!
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/ingenious-brick-he...
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/ingenious-brick-he...
I’ve heard some of the arguments against alcohol consumption during the pandemic, and I don’t buy it.
Sure, it’s true that alcohol lowers your immune system and requires trips to stores. But a big portion of whether or not we’ll make it out of this with lower fatalities will be about our ability to maintain quarantine. And honestly, people are bored and freaked out, recreational substances give them one more thing to do that’ll keep them inside and safe-ish.
Sure, it’s true that alcohol lowers your immune system and requires trips to stores. But a big portion of whether or not we’ll make it out of this with lower fatalities will be about our ability to maintain quarantine. And honestly, people are bored and freaked out, recreational substances give them one more thing to do that’ll keep them inside and safe-ish.
Yep. If anything alcohol has helped me maintain quarantine, since if I'm too drunk or high to drive then I'm that much more inclined to stay home.
The only thing stopping Americans from seriously protesting is cheap beer & cigarettes & sports on TV.
One is already gone, there is no way they'll take away the others.
One is already gone, there is no way they'll take away the others.
Yep. Thankfully I've got enough booze stocked up that even if the liquor stores shut down I'd be good for awhile, and I don't smoke so that's a non-factor for me. The lack of hockey and NASCAR is annoying but manageable.
Curious what you have stocked up, mind sharing?
Sure! Current inventory:
- 1 box and 3 bottles of cheap moscato
- 1.1 bottles of rum
- 4-ish bottles of various whiskeys
- 0.7 bottles of brandy
- 1 giant bottle of tequila
- Half a gross of bottles/cans of beer
- 1 box and 3 bottles of cheap moscato
- 1.1 bottles of rum
- 4-ish bottles of various whiskeys
- 0.7 bottles of brandy
- 1 giant bottle of tequila
- Half a gross of bottles/cans of beer
Good stuff, cheers!
You'd think that other countries would learn from America's historical mistakes.
On the other hand, I look forward to someday watching the South African version of NASCAR this will surely spawn.
On the other hand, I look forward to someday watching the South African version of NASCAR this will surely spawn.
Same in a lot of parts of India, sale of liquor is prohibited in the union COVID guidelines, although I'm told there are some states where liquor stores have been reopened.
Try and pry me out of my Shabeen
Bold move... I've resorted to smoking because I can't buy eliquid for vaping heh.
On that note there was a whole thread on Reddit with people saying they might kill themselves if lockdowns go on for months.
That would be hilarious, "cause of death: Covid-19"
On that note there was a whole thread on Reddit with people saying they might kill themselves if lockdowns go on for months.
That would be hilarious, "cause of death: Covid-19"
The local breweries in the Seattle area have been collaborating with the restaurants doing delivery for weeks to offload their keg stock. We've been getting growlers basically at-cost. (WA relaxed liquor laws during the SAH order so regular food deliveries can also bring you alcohol.)
Archival version https://archive.fo/poekb
People in my office (well, formerly) have been buying kegs straight from the breweries. They were intended for commercial and now are sold to consumer and delivered by the same trucks.
[deleted]
Unless it's a local beer, they were buying straight from the local distributor. The major breweries do not ship their product to bars.
"I volunteer!" I gasp. “I volunteer as tribute!”
(AL located currently)
(AL located currently)
Yeah, if any breweries or restaurants or what have you here in Reno are facing this issue, I'd be happy to help "store" some of it. Know quite a few buddies here in town who'd likely feel the same.
“Executives say draft beer typically stays fresh for between two and six months.”
Need to work on this.
Need to work on this.
Most craft beers, especially those high in terpenes (dry-hopped IPAs come to mind) have flavor drop-off relatively rapidly and are best consumed fresh. Monkish, Fieldwork, Other Half, Tree House etc are some of my favorites but they’re usually bursting with flavor the first two weeks or so. “Drink Fresh”
I thought that the whole point of Indian Pale Ale was that it would last longer, as in it would survive a sea voyage from England to India in the 1800s (6 months)
It would go unspoiled, which is a bit different of a thing than tasting it's best.
Grain has quite a bit of lactic acid producing bacteria in it, on top of it's just being readily available in nature in general, so breweries naturally have a ton of it around. Most common lacto and pedio bacteria, the primary two type of LAB, is not very tolerant to hops. If you make a really hoppy beer, this naturally helps prevent the beer from souring.
Of course, a lot of beer is intentionally soured by these, and basically all beer originally would sour, and it's perfectly safe to drink. Just not desirable in every style of beer.
Grain has quite a bit of lactic acid producing bacteria in it, on top of it's just being readily available in nature in general, so breweries naturally have a ton of it around. Most common lacto and pedio bacteria, the primary two type of LAB, is not very tolerant to hops. If you make a really hoppy beer, this naturally helps prevent the beer from souring.
Of course, a lot of beer is intentionally soured by these, and basically all beer originally would sour, and it's perfectly safe to drink. Just not desirable in every style of beer.
Maybe IPAs were meant to taste as they did after a long voyage to India. Maybe at the end of the voyage was when they tasted their best. Maybe the hops were just a preservative and nobody really liked drinking beer with overly strong hop flavours and aromas.
My theory is that people who like these extremely hoppy IPAs have (1) lost their ability to taste more subtle flavors, (2) are performing some kind of signalling to their fellow beer connisseur peers about how much of a beer geek they are.
Extremely hoppy ≠ extremely bitter. A lot of hops have floral, citrus or tropical fruit flavors and aromas. It’s why hazy IPAs have become so popular; they tend to use more of those kind of hops rather than the bittering varieties and end up juicy and balanced, rather than having overwhelming bitterness.
Or, perhaps, people simply have different tastes. IPAs make up nearly 1/3rd of the dollar share of craft beer in the US - they're hardly some ultra-acquired taste that you could use to signal that you are part of the beer elite.
They're just nice. People have different taste. I don't understand why you have to make theories.
If I had to I'd theorise people who make theories about people who like hoppy IPAs (1) have sensitive taste buds, (2) are performing some kind of signaling.
So meta!
To add to this, the high alcohol content typically found in IPAs helped with transportation, too.
And, if you’re not a fan of extra-hoppy ipas, letting an ipa age will mute the hoppy flavor and could potentially make a more enjoyable beer.
And, if you’re not a fan of extra-hoppy ipas, letting an ipa age will mute the hoppy flavor and could potentially make a more enjoyable beer.
I'd probably recommend people just go for a different style of beer if they don't like IPAs :)
The alpha acids in hops oxidizing will have an impact on the flavor of the beer - largely it will reinforce the malt flavor, but depending on your susceptibility to off flavors, you might get cardboard or BO type flavors.
The alpha acids in hops oxidizing will have an impact on the flavor of the beer - largely it will reinforce the malt flavor, but depending on your susceptibility to off flavors, you might get cardboard or BO type flavors.
After six months it's basically Heineken, so great by 19th century standards...
I guess 'lasting' meant, 'getting you drunk, not sick' back then. It does that just fine, also after the taste and aroma of the hops have become dull over time.
This is true, but unfortunately most breweries still dont give a bottled/canned on date, so it can be difficult to figure this out (unless there's some secret I'm unaware of). There's at least a couple beers I buy regularly that are great within a month or so, but will be pretty nasty after being on the shelves after a few months.
The only reasonably reliable way I've found to get around this is to buy refrigerated whenever possible, and to look for "what wasnt here last week". Or buy from one of the handful of breweries that does print dates.
The only reasonably reliable way I've found to get around this is to buy refrigerated whenever possible, and to look for "what wasnt here last week". Or buy from one of the handful of breweries that does print dates.
Funny you mention Tree House. The beer seems almost impossible to get these days.
> Need to work on this.
For what possible reason? During normal times there would be no reason to maintain beer stockpiles. During "challenging" times, those who would benefit from a long life supply of alcohol should look at wine, spirits etc.
Or they can get used to stale beer.
Or they can learn to homebrew.
For what possible reason? During normal times there would be no reason to maintain beer stockpiles. During "challenging" times, those who would benefit from a long life supply of alcohol should look at wine, spirits etc.
Or they can get used to stale beer.
Or they can learn to homebrew.
[deleted]
For the reason that beer could be like wine. If you don't like wine, I imagine beer could be a decent option to have a neat collection of
This already exists. It's mainly focused on high-strength (10% and up) dark beers. Think imperial stout, triple bock, that sort of thing.
The exeception to this rule is that beers with added acidity, like a lambic or a Berliner weisse, will age well despite being lighter and lower alcohol content.
I have a few like this sitting in the basement. At least one of them has a label recommending at least one year and up to 20 years of storage. It will be fun to see how it tastes at some point.
The exeception to this rule is that beers with added acidity, like a lambic or a Berliner weisse, will age well despite being lighter and lower alcohol content.
I have a few like this sitting in the basement. At least one of them has a label recommending at least one year and up to 20 years of storage. It will be fun to see how it tastes at some point.
I had two bottles of a beer like that (Hunahpu), I drank one right away and aged the second for two years. The first one was an excellent beer, the second one was the best beer I've ever had in my entire life.
It’s a science problem. More specifically, chemistry.
Free beer? Maybe structured to generate tax credit.
Beer baths?
Good for the skin.
Hey, I'll drink it?
My liver is indestructible!
My liver ain't, but my brain doesn't care.
Covid-19 is linked to AKF (search). As an older hacker (not a Boomer), I can tell you that the kids who setup microbreweries back in the day first tried to escape into project management and then wound up...not-in-tech.
Together we can solve this problem.
I can’t read the article due to the paywall, but I hope it went into the science around heat and oxidation as well as the regulations preventing breweries and distributors from buying back the kegs. Maybe it even offered a glimpse of hope from post-processing via distillation
In Germany we had the “beer man” who would drop off beer weekly and collect the empties. This should be adopted in the USA.