Walmart is piloting a pricier 2-hour ‘express’ grocery delivery service(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Walmart is piloting a pricier 2-hour ‘express’ grocery delivery service
https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/30/walmart-is-piloting-a-pricier-2-hour-express-grocery-delivery-service/
81 comments
Sure. But it's not about scalability.
This is about Walmart using the huge online grocery waiting times, and this service as a solution, in-order to educate wealthy shoppers to stop associating Walmart's low price with low quality , and stop looking at the Amazon app as the default way to shop.
This is about Walmart using the huge online grocery waiting times, and this service as a solution, in-order to educate wealthy shoppers to stop associating Walmart's low price with low quality , and stop looking at the Amazon app as the default way to shop.
For all of Walmart’s ruthlessness with how they treat their employees, I do get a bit of enjoyment out of the flip side of them channeling the same ruthlessness towards refusal to let Amazon eat their lunch.
How is it about as safe? What if I don't have a car?
Delivery seems MUCH safer -- I don't have to leave my home at all.
Delivery seems MUCH safer -- I don't have to leave my home at all.
There is no effective difference in the safety of delivery vs curb side pickup.
Driving is by far the most dangerous thing that folks do on a regular basis. If I get delivery I don't drive, but I am offloading that risk to someone else.
Either way, I disagree.
Either way, I disagree.
It is AS safe insofar as risk of infection. The risk of driving to the grocery store is pretty low if you are at not to much below average in your driving skills and not drunk.
Current stats are I believe 1.25 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles in the US. Someone came up with a great metric to compare risk called "micromorts"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort
Defined as a 1 in a million chance of death per unit of exposure. All causes in the US give an average of 22 per day in the US in 2010. Traveling 5 miles by car is 0.02 micromorts. Climbing Everest is aprox 38k mm if you are average competence for people who normally do such a thing.
To get the risk profile of going out you would have to get the all cause probability of dying from everything else other than driving and add the chance of dying on a given trip but 0.02 is probably fairly reasonable.
Infectious disease is particularly interesting because its unreasonable to assign a simple probability of infection and then probability of death because if people in aggregate opt to collectively take more risks they each may indeed face only a small initial chance of mortality but their collective choices can going forward spread the virus around and greatly increase their chances of infection in future expeditions.
This is what people who want to assess the risks for themselves usually fail to get. They aren't allowed to do it because they are extremely likely to be bad at it and their risks effect others futures.
Current stats are I believe 1.25 deaths per 100 million vehicle miles in the US. Someone came up with a great metric to compare risk called "micromorts"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort
Defined as a 1 in a million chance of death per unit of exposure. All causes in the US give an average of 22 per day in the US in 2010. Traveling 5 miles by car is 0.02 micromorts. Climbing Everest is aprox 38k mm if you are average competence for people who normally do such a thing.
To get the risk profile of going out you would have to get the all cause probability of dying from everything else other than driving and add the chance of dying on a given trip but 0.02 is probably fairly reasonable.
Infectious disease is particularly interesting because its unreasonable to assign a simple probability of infection and then probability of death because if people in aggregate opt to collectively take more risks they each may indeed face only a small initial chance of mortality but their collective choices can going forward spread the virus around and greatly increase their chances of infection in future expeditions.
This is what people who want to assess the risks for themselves usually fail to get. They aren't allowed to do it because they are extremely likely to be bad at it and their risks effect others futures.
For car users, that is.
You don't interact with anyone. When we pull up and see the gut coming we hit the open trunk button and he loads everything in and we wave goodbye. Technically we should double check the order but I'm not getting that close to someone, I'll just stay in the driver's seat and trust them so far it has worked out. (onetime target messed up but one call and they made it right)
Their original delivery was an absolute clusterfuck. Decided to try it one day. The checkout barely worked, the app had no time estimate and the rebranded Postmates subcontractor got 40% of the order incorrect.
Walmart is making a big PR effort to rebrand as a tech company but it seems to be marketing driven.
Edit: this was pre covid.
Walmart is making a big PR effort to rebrand as a tech company but it seems to be marketing driven.
Edit: this was pre covid.
Fred Meyers works really well and if the delivery is days out you can edit the order until its around 24 hours and it only charges you the difference.
Presently there is no charge for curbside pickup and they even support ebt for those whom are out of work.
Presently there is no charge for curbside pickup and they even support ebt for those whom are out of work.
It makes sense. Just like "economy" vs "first class" for travel. As a business, it needs to partition out the consumer buckets into various groups for profit maximization.
"Pay less if it's not urgent" doesn't sound evil or anything. Like the pandemic has proved that delivery workers are a scarce resource, what do you want them to do, have a raffle?
It sounds like it's actually "pay more if it is urgent".
In a competitive market, it really will be "pay less if it's not urgent". In particular, if you're a peon flying coach, you want some people flying first class, because they are effectively subsidizing your ticket. Bring on the rich!
The ecconmics of airplanes is different and do not apply. Here you want enough people paying for the cheap service that it makes money so they don't kill it. There is no advantage to a class of service that doesn't pay for itself in this space, you just move up to the next one.
Actually the worst thing would be most people choosing this as they may decide that the cheaper class isn't worth serving at all.
Actually the worst thing would be most people choosing this as they may decide that the cheaper class isn't worth serving at all.
I don't think this analysis is correct. No one's going to offer a service if it's cheaper not to, yes. But if there's only one class of service, you have to make $X on each order to cover your fixed costs. If there are multiple classes, the cheapest class could end up being $(0.8X) and still allow you to make more money overall.
In an airplane the (.8x) works out because the seats are going anyway. I don't see how that works for Walmart where they can not do the delivery.
Think of it as an SLA. People optimise for different outcomes, some people need their groceries in a 1 hour timeslot because they have other commitments.
I agree, but what does that have to do with Walmart providing some class at a loss?
It's not at a loss, it's just at a rate they couldn't support if it were there only rate.
As a thought experiment, suppose there are a few local zillionaires start making "platinum" orders to local markets each day, with a $1M delivery charge. Will the markets stop accepting otherwise-profitable peon orders? No. That part is easy. But what will happen to the price of peon orders as the markets compete? They can afford to lower those prices a bit, since their fixed costs are spread across all customers, and the zillionaires are already paying the lion's share.
If you doubt this, imagine you run one of the markets and your competitor drops the price of his peon orders by five percent. Are you going to allow the competitor to take all of your business, forgoing the profit you'd otherwise earn?
As a thought experiment, suppose there are a few local zillionaires start making "platinum" orders to local markets each day, with a $1M delivery charge. Will the markets stop accepting otherwise-profitable peon orders? No. That part is easy. But what will happen to the price of peon orders as the markets compete? They can afford to lower those prices a bit, since their fixed costs are spread across all customers, and the zillionaires are already paying the lion's share.
If you doubt this, imagine you run one of the markets and your competitor drops the price of his peon orders by five percent. Are you going to allow the competitor to take all of your business, forgoing the profit you'd otherwise earn?
There's three broad ways to determine distribution of scarce goods. You've missed one.
In no particular order, those ways are:
1. Highest bidder.
2. Lottery.
3. Highest need.
There is no intrinsic 'fairness' to either of those three priorities to distribution - what any person thinks is the fairest method completely depends on their value system.
However, regardless of your value system, and your opinion on which of these is the most fair, you can probably agree that for luxury goods, #1 is a reasonably accurate proxy for #3... And that for life-necessary staples, it is not.
In the case of grocery delivery in the middle of a pandemic, people with pre-existing conditions, the elderly, and people living adjacent to those first two groups rank much higher on #3, than your run-of-the-mill 20-something-year-old. For the former, delivery is not a luxury good. For the latter, it is.
In no particular order, those ways are:
1. Highest bidder.
2. Lottery.
3. Highest need.
There is no intrinsic 'fairness' to either of those three priorities to distribution - what any person thinks is the fairest method completely depends on their value system.
However, regardless of your value system, and your opinion on which of these is the most fair, you can probably agree that for luxury goods, #1 is a reasonably accurate proxy for #3... And that for life-necessary staples, it is not.
In the case of grocery delivery in the middle of a pandemic, people with pre-existing conditions, the elderly, and people living adjacent to those first two groups rank much higher on #3, than your run-of-the-mill 20-something-year-old. For the former, delivery is not a luxury good. For the latter, it is.
If they are truly life-necessary. But it is quite likely that the elderly and the pre-existing conditions folk will survive getting the bread tomorrow instead of in two hours.
We already have a bypass mechanisms for the "I'll die if I don't get it in two hours". It's the emergency services system and it's there when your life is in danger and it's currently overprovisioned to ensure capacity.
We already have a bypass mechanisms for the "I'll die if I don't get it in two hours". It's the emergency services system and it's there when your life is in danger and it's currently overprovisioned to ensure capacity.
Which is why I was talking about grocery delivery as a whole, as opposed to two-hour grocery delivery.
The problem is if the express versus economy stratification does not actually increase overall system throughput - but instead, attracts more load to the system, as people who don't need it, but were otherwise going to the store end up using it for convenience.
The problem is if the express versus economy stratification does not actually increase overall system throughput - but instead, attracts more load to the system, as people who don't need it, but were otherwise going to the store end up using it for convenience.
As a business, it needs to partition out the consumer buckets into various groups for profit maximization.
When you're stuck with an empty cardboard roll in the middle of a three-flusher, you'll pay whatever price Wal-Mart asks.
When you're stuck with an empty cardboard roll in the middle of a three-flusher, you'll pay whatever price Wal-Mart asks.
Showers work...
As a customer I would rather they solve the problem that their pickers decrease the usability of their stores.
I had a good laugh yesterday at their store. They have finally put one-way stickers on the floor to indicate aisle directions. The only people I saw going the wrong way were wal-mart order pickers.
Serious: Are those stickers any better?
I haven't shopped at a store with those arrows, so I haven't seen how well they work, I can only guess...
If someone is standing in the aisle comparing two products, are you going to wait for them so you don't pass them?
If you only need one item and it's in an aisle towards the front of the store, are you going to follow the arrows so you go further towards the back of the store and down an aisle that you didn't need to go down?
Are the arrows going to prevent you from walking through someone else's exhaled air?
It seems more like something to appear doing good than actually doing good.
I haven't shopped at a store with those arrows, so I haven't seen how well they work, I can only guess...
If someone is standing in the aisle comparing two products, are you going to wait for them so you don't pass them?
If you only need one item and it's in an aisle towards the front of the store, are you going to follow the arrows so you go further towards the back of the store and down an aisle that you didn't need to go down?
Are the arrows going to prevent you from walking through someone else's exhaled air?
It seems more like something to appear doing good than actually doing good.
> Are the arrows going to prevent you from walking through someone else's exhaled air?
In most aisles, it's almost impossible to maintain your distance from others if people are traveling in both directions, since you're frequently passing closely. If everyone makes a one-way "circuit" around the store, you can maintain pretty large distances.
In most aisles, it's almost impossible to maintain your distance from others if people are traveling in both directions, since you're frequently passing closely. If everyone makes a one-way "circuit" around the store, you can maintain pretty large distances.
I think the point stands - the standard 6' / 1.5m guidelines are completely arbitrary and it's likely that droplets remain suspended for some period of time, so regardless of direction, you're certain to encounter potential infectious agents if you're in an aisle within 15-30+ minutes of someone contagious passing through.
Yeah, I was merely responding to the naive "why are there arrows?" part of that. The true story is more complex and probably mostly unknown at this point.
That said, at this point, I'll take the arrows and my six feet, for starters. When I'm in a store, which I've done once in the last six weeks...
That said, at this point, I'll take the arrows and my six feet, for starters. When I'm in a store, which I've done once in the last six weeks...
They don't have to be followed in every possible instance, but they provide good guidance about what is expected when you see another person, and helps massively reduce the amount of situations where people pass each other going opposite directions. There's obviously no need to respect the arrows if you are grabbing something and going the "wrong way" doesn't put you in close contact with somebody else. By all means jump around lanes.
And yes, wait for the person to move on, don't squeeze past them, that's the whole point.
I have no data but it seems like something that would be helpful.
And yes, wait for the person to move on, don't squeeze past them, that's the whole point.
I have no data but it seems like something that would be helpful.
No way am I waiting on people who are comparing items, nor do I feel the least bit slighted/assaulted when people quite reasonably pass me when I'm comparing items or otherwise doing stationery shopping things in the aisle.
I don't see any evidence that I'm in the minority in my behavior on this point. If you believe there's risk in passing someone, I think you also have to believe that there's risk in standing 6 feet behind them for a needlessly prolonged period of waiting.
I don't see any evidence that I'm in the minority in my behavior on this point. If you believe there's risk in passing someone, I think you also have to believe that there's risk in standing 6 feet behind them for a needlessly prolonged period of waiting.
> If you believe there's risk in passing someone, I think you also have to believe that there's risk in standing 6 feet behind them for a needlessly prolonged period of waiting.'
There is risk in both things. There's risk being in the same room, typing on the same keypad for payment, risk in being near people outdoors.
So we take calculated measures to reduce the risk. The advice is maintain six feet, but that's not some magic number between risk and no risk.
I don't feel assaulted if somebody passes by me either, but I'm not aiming to voluntarily increase my risk by intentionally causing myself to come close to other people if I can just hang back or go another way. I don't care what the majority of the behavior is, we all have to do what seems reasonable to us.
I'm lucky enough that I can almost completely avoid being in the store at all, or anywhere else that has groups of people, which I do since that's the lower risk approach.
My partner has a respiratory condition, we have elderly relatives that we bring food to, we have to try any practical steps we can do not pass on the disease to other people in our lives, who might have a very bad time or die if they get it.
There is risk in both things. There's risk being in the same room, typing on the same keypad for payment, risk in being near people outdoors.
So we take calculated measures to reduce the risk. The advice is maintain six feet, but that's not some magic number between risk and no risk.
I don't feel assaulted if somebody passes by me either, but I'm not aiming to voluntarily increase my risk by intentionally causing myself to come close to other people if I can just hang back or go another way. I don't care what the majority of the behavior is, we all have to do what seems reasonable to us.
I'm lucky enough that I can almost completely avoid being in the store at all, or anywhere else that has groups of people, which I do since that's the lower risk approach.
My partner has a respiratory condition, we have elderly relatives that we bring food to, we have to try any practical steps we can do not pass on the disease to other people in our lives, who might have a very bad time or die if they get it.
Ideally they'd pick in the middle of the night, to help with this. Personally I'd prefer it as a picker, though not everyone wants to work the night shift.
And also not everyone wants to be woken up to receive their groceries at 2am after they've been picked in the middle of the night.
They can store the picked stuff in reefers for delivery later, up to a point. And some orders have nothing cold.
But yes, it's a dance. I'd receive my stuff at 2am for a 20% discount.
Lots of people would. Grocery stores typically run on a 1-3% net margins, so they're probably not going to be handing out 20% across-the-board discounts for anyone...
hah, not only are they copying Instacart's business model, they also copied the naming (https://www.instacart.com/store/express)
Not sure how this is going to work, even the standard service is completely booked until next week at my local Walmart, unless they'll reserve some drivers for the 2-hour service.
You can't blame Walmart for that, that's case everywhere, from local supermarkets to Whole Foods delivery. All deliveries are out at least a week due to everyone avoiding going out because of covid.
In the Bay Area Instacart has been the best option in my experience. A few weeks ago Amazon Fresh and most other services I checked were impossible to get, but on Instacart you could still get a spot 3 days out if you booked it before about noon. Now it seems better across the board, still spotty on other services but on Instacart you can reliably get any time slot you want the next day and even usually same-day.
I'm not blaming them, I just legitimately don't see how they could offer another service when they're already booked solid and don't have any drivers to spare.
26 million workers have lost their jobs in a little more than a month. The labor market might well be worse than the Great Depression. It doesn't seem to be a hard problem to solve.
I get what you're saying, but I have to imagine some people are reticent to start engaging in such a dangerous task for such a small amount of income. You're literally putting yourself and your immediate family in danger of catching a potentially serious illness for the opportunity to make, maybe $50 a day before expenses.
I feel like this is an American perspective. From my understanding the danger is overblown (provided social distancing measures are in place and respected).
> maybe $50 a day before expenses
If the alternative is homelessness, people will take this offer. And don't forget, there's entire groups of people who do dangerous jobs daily with little thanks (builders, bin men, etc..) so I don't think they'll have a problem filling these spots.
> maybe $50 a day before expenses
If the alternative is homelessness, people will take this offer. And don't forget, there's entire groups of people who do dangerous jobs daily with little thanks (builders, bin men, etc..) so I don't think they'll have a problem filling these spots.
I don't think it's that little money; I just delivered some packages on Amazon Flex to get out of the house and it was CAD$70 gross for about 2:30h of work. Not bad at all for unskilled labor.
Instacart is paying ~CAD$30 gross per shopping trip but seems riskier and more annoying so I haven't hopped on that.
Instacart is paying ~CAD$30 gross per shopping trip but seems riskier and more annoying so I haven't hopped on that.
Walmart near me uses DoorDash to deliver orders. Maybe they’re planning on ratcheting that up?
They aren't using their own drivers.
It is more along the lines of 'you say you offer a service, but you clearly do not have capacity to run it since it is completely booked'. Similar story in Chicago suburbs too. Your real option is to do it yourself.
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It seems to me that they will use some of the extra money to pay more drivers.
Depends on the location. Walmart is everywhere. I live in a midsized city and the delay was only 8pm the next day when I placed an order at 6pm or so. A few weeks ago they’d just stopped it completely so it was nice to get groceries delivered.
They can spend more money to make the premium service work. Hire more delivery people etc.
Yet another way a huge corp is using this pandemic to make more profit. Now, some elderly person, cancer patient, etc won't be able to get a delivery slot because they cannot afford the premium for the faster service, and this will take resources from the cheaper delivery choice.
Edit: spare me from your acrobatics that make this sound like a fair move by such a wholesome company. I'm sorry if I don't bend over for the company that tells employees to go on food stamps instead of paying a fair wage.
Edit: spare me from your acrobatics that make this sound like a fair move by such a wholesome company. I'm sorry if I don't bend over for the company that tells employees to go on food stamps instead of paying a fair wage.
You're talking about a pretty narrow window for someone who can afford an $8 delivery service but not an $18 delivery service on a grocery bill that's probably $100+. Like I get that this is essentially a fast-pass for grocery delivery but $18 for the time and labor for a real person to shop and deliver to me is a steal.
If it's so lucrative why isn't there an UberEats for groceries (if there isn't one) and why can't these people just use those services?
imo saying they're using the pandemic for profit by giving you an option to not have to wait 2 weeks is like saying the drivers of these services are just taking advantage of the pandemic. It becomes pretty meaningless.
imo saying they're using the pandemic for profit by giving you an option to not have to wait 2 weeks is like saying the drivers of these services are just taking advantage of the pandemic. It becomes pretty meaningless.
This was likely in the works for months- I worked on a similar project while there, and lining up the integrations with external partners was time consuming across corporate boundaries. Actually a second read of the article shows that this was in pilot, and just being rolled out to more stores. The pandemic may have pushed the timelines up a bit, but the fact is that right now the supply/demand for delivery slots are out of whack because the demand far outstrips supply. If getting external services can help create more capacity at a charge, this is a win for everyone.
It’s almost always better to use your local grocery store.
You get your products quicker and have a greater selection as well.
You get your products quicker and have a greater selection as well.
My local grocery store has a much smaller selection than Walmart for seemingly everything other than meat and cheese. Not surprising when the store is 1/10 the size. But they were way ahead of the curve on grocery delivery, they've been doing it decades.
I assume you mean local as in not large corporations like Walmart or Meijer or Target or Jewel. Because those are local for people also.
And that may be true most of the time, but not during this pandemic, if you want to stay home to protect yourself. None of those places have delivery, at least not that I know of, so I would have to go there to shop. I'm not even sure if they have Curbside pickup options.
And that may be true most of the time, but not during this pandemic, if you want to stay home to protect yourself. None of those places have delivery, at least not that I know of, so I would have to go there to shop. I'm not even sure if they have Curbside pickup options.
All the medium grocers in my area offer curbside pickup now.
The larger ones have had home delivery for a fee.
The larger ones have had home delivery for a fee.
I'm not even sure if they have Curbside pickup options.
One of the local chains where I live just added curbside this week — seven (eight? nine?) weeks into this.
One of the local chains where I live just added curbside this week — seven (eight? nine?) weeks into this.
It’s almost always better to use your local grocery store.
For a vast number (possibly a majority) of Americans, Walmart is their local grocery store.
For a vast number (possibly a majority) of Americans, Walmart is their local grocery store.
Not based on population density.
Also a way around price gouging laws. Many vendors cannot raise wages to attract more couriers since they are legally barred from raising prices. So they position this as a new service.
I would love use a Walmart grocery delivery service, but they use a 9 mile radius around their stores to qualify for delivery and I'm 10 miles away from the nearest store.
Keep trying. I wasn't part of the Wal-Mart delivery area until last week. They seem to be expanding lately.
using clayton christensen, what's in the downmarket forcing them to retreat upmarket?
They're not retreating. It's an additional service.
Just a thought, make it optional to get rid of the scheduled pickup time. I would be happy with an expected average waiting time, and have them text me when it's ready.
Many of us, myself included, are working from home and have totally flexible schedules. I wouldn't mind just dropping everything and heading over to the store.
Many of us, myself included, are working from home and have totally flexible schedules. I wouldn't mind just dropping everything and heading over to the store.
This seems interesting, but I highly doubt Walmart can make it work.
Everything about the company screams crap. Every time I go to a Walmart store, I feel as if I lose several IQ points. I have stopped going there.
Their only saving grace, is that I don’t trust Amazon to buy certain things, which means I’d rather buy it from a physical store. But I’d still choose any other company, than Walmart.
But, if they can offer decent delivery, with the option to return stuff, then I might try them out. I dislike returning stuff at Walmart.
Everything about the company screams crap. Every time I go to a Walmart store, I feel as if I lose several IQ points. I have stopped going there.
Their only saving grace, is that I don’t trust Amazon to buy certain things, which means I’d rather buy it from a physical store. But I’d still choose any other company, than Walmart.
But, if they can offer decent delivery, with the option to return stuff, then I might try them out. I dislike returning stuff at Walmart.
It's trivial to repurpose any employee as an order picker with 5 minutes training.