Ask HN: How can I prevent myself from being doxxed?
116 comments
What I do for things like Reddit and HN, is that I create a new account every few months to make it harder for them... and of course I try not to post information that could personally identify me. As a bonus, you almost stop caring about karma points ;) But of course the provider could still doxx you unless you take some additional steps to stay anonymous (like Tor, maybe).
I've started doing this too. Also email every few years now. Its nice not to care about karma.
Start new accounts with no reference to your old ones, your name or your location. Be careful about what you put online publicly. I think most people would be horrified at what the likes of Facebook, amazon or google knows about them.
I'd add to this use some sort of random word generator to come up with usernames since humans are bad at not picking patterns.
Create many accounts similar to your current ones or buy existing accounts with activity and change their information to be similar to yours. Muddy the water enough that anyone googling your real name can never guess you and misdirect people into clicking unsafe content.
You will leave traces of information no matter how hard you try if you spend enough time on any site.
Btw, did you know that even if you ask dang to rename your account - people can easily find you by searching on hn.algolia.com because they don't auto update indexes on renames?
Same for many other sites. There are many indexes and archives that never update old data and won't care about GDPR requests.
You will leave traces of information no matter how hard you try if you spend enough time on any site.
Btw, did you know that even if you ask dang to rename your account - people can easily find you by searching on hn.algolia.com because they don't auto update indexes on renames?
Same for many other sites. There are many indexes and archives that never update old data and won't care about GDPR requests.
One approach is to simply not care if you are doxxed. What would really happen if someone figured out who you are? If the answer is not much, maybe don’t worry about it. This approach makes less sense if you are saying things that will get you in hot water.
I'm not likely to say things that will get me in hot water, and I'm not a public figure by any means. That said, I see doxxing as a tactic increasingly employed against those who participate in political activism, which, like many, I am increasingly involved in.
This is a key point missing in your original post. If being politically active using your real name or real face is required, you'll need to just accept that people will be able to tie your name and face together eventually.
You can additionally try to make yourself not stand out in real life: Choose a non-flashy style of dress. Black hoodie, hat, glasses, mask. Something that dozens of other people will be wearing at such events.
You can additionally try to make yourself not stand out in real life: Choose a non-flashy style of dress. Black hoodie, hat, glasses, mask. Something that dozens of other people will be wearing at such events.
> If being politically active using your real name or real face is required, you'll need to just accept that people will be able to tie your name and face together eventually
That might be fine, need not be a problem. (Maybe)
Instead, he or she (or others in politics) might get doxxed about things unrelated to politics that s/he wants to keep private.
Which might have worse consequences if beinga bit well known because of politics
That might be fine, need not be a problem. (Maybe)
Instead, he or she (or others in politics) might get doxxed about things unrelated to politics that s/he wants to keep private.
Which might have worse consequences if beinga bit well known because of politics
mask
It's interesting how the virus has caused far more widespread acceptance of wearing a mask in public, something that would arouse suspicion only a year ago. Covering most of your face no longer causes others to notice you.
It's interesting how the virus has caused far more widespread acceptance of wearing a mask in public, something that would arouse suspicion only a year ago. Covering most of your face no longer causes others to notice you.
Easy, just dox yourself first.
It depends on what you mean by being 'doxxed'. It is trivially easy to find out what city I live in and a few other non-identifying details. It's harder to pinpoint my real name or address without the active cooperation of website owners (and maybe not even then).
Miniscule levels of risk are not worth worrying about, unless you are a figure in the public spotlight or likely to be a person of interest to police or intelligence orgs, in which case you should probably seek advice specific to your situation.
Miniscule levels of risk are not worth worrying about, unless you are a figure in the public spotlight or likely to be a person of interest to police or intelligence orgs, in which case you should probably seek advice specific to your situation.
> in which case you should probably seek advice specific to your situation
This is really the key takeaway I'm getting from your comment and others so far: what is meant by doxxing and what I can do about it are very context-specific.
This is really the key takeaway I'm getting from your comment and others so far: what is meant by doxxing and what I can do about it are very context-specific.
If you are just worried about someone trying to steal your identity to abuse your credit or so, you probably already practice good basic security (like 2-factor authentication, not recycling your passwords etc. etc.) and have no particular need to worry about. You are more likely to have your security compromised in a corporate data breach than someone taking the time to dox you.
If you get in fights online or are a member of some group that frequently experiences abuse (from inside or outside your community) then you should consider rebuilding your social media identities, giving up some of them, compartmentalizing your digital life so that your work or business don't overlap with your friendships or public persona etc.
If things have gone sideways and you think people are already motivated to go after you, a determined person can pull your details together very quickly with a mixture of software tools, access to commercial databases, and some detective work. It's not difficult for someone with experience. In such a situation you should probably work with a commercial service like https://privacyduck.com which will do the work of erasing your digital footprints.
It's not cheap, last time I looked they charged $600/year or so and depending on your circumstances and vulnerability that might need to be budgeted as an ongoing expense. I'm sure there are other competitors int he same field but am not sufficiently informed to make comparisons.
If you get in fights online or are a member of some group that frequently experiences abuse (from inside or outside your community) then you should consider rebuilding your social media identities, giving up some of them, compartmentalizing your digital life so that your work or business don't overlap with your friendships or public persona etc.
If things have gone sideways and you think people are already motivated to go after you, a determined person can pull your details together very quickly with a mixture of software tools, access to commercial databases, and some detective work. It's not difficult for someone with experience. In such a situation you should probably work with a commercial service like https://privacyduck.com which will do the work of erasing your digital footprints.
It's not cheap, last time I looked they charged $600/year or so and depending on your circumstances and vulnerability that might need to be budgeted as an ongoing expense. I'm sure there are other competitors int he same field but am not sufficiently informed to make comparisons.
It sounds like auditing my digital life might be a starting place. By understanding what others in various circles see of me, I can begin to better compartmentalize my presence online.
I'm grateful that I don't have any need for a commercial privacy service right now. I wish we lived in a world where such a service weren't necessary, but that doesn't seem to be the direction we're heading.
I'm grateful that I don't have any need for a commercial privacy service right now. I wish we lived in a world where such a service weren't necessary, but that doesn't seem to be the direction we're heading.
> giving up some of them
This is the way. Ask yourself if you really need an online presence or to be part of fights online.
This is the way. Ask yourself if you really need an online presence or to be part of fights online.
I'm looking at their list of websites https://www.privacyduck.com/services/ and it looks like this is pretty similar to services that will pay to remove your mugshot from the internet... It will probably help deter people who aren't trying super hard but it's unlikely to actually help defend a dedicated attacker
I haven't had to use privacyduck for myself but I'm willing to give them a qualified endorsement based on the testimony of people I know who have used their service and said they were quite dedicated rather than just being an easy cash shakedown.
That said if they're more useful if you have reason to expect you're going to be doxxed. If it has already happened and your info found its way onto the dark web then you've got bigger problems.
Luckily that's not the OP's situation, but for a person who finds themselves unwillingly in the public eye and whose information has been exposed to malicious actors it's a difficult judgment call. If they're experiencing such harassment as to fear for their physical safety, that requires a lawyer's help, and probably involves moving home setting up a shell company to manage financial affairs/bills/property titles. That would generally be enough to shield one from inquiries other than law enforcement, but is obviously going to be very expensive. I'm not qualified to advise anyone on the specifics of how to go about that.
If you don't have such resources, think about moving - not so easy to track if you sublet - and most important, change your phone number. Switch to a pay-as-you-go service and use gift cards to develop a parallel financial identity. Your phone # is the biggest giveaway, followed by bills and property records. That won't hide you from private detectives or professional snoopers but will be sufficient to avoid an internet hate machine.
That said if they're more useful if you have reason to expect you're going to be doxxed. If it has already happened and your info found its way onto the dark web then you've got bigger problems.
Luckily that's not the OP's situation, but for a person who finds themselves unwillingly in the public eye and whose information has been exposed to malicious actors it's a difficult judgment call. If they're experiencing such harassment as to fear for their physical safety, that requires a lawyer's help, and probably involves moving home setting up a shell company to manage financial affairs/bills/property titles. That would generally be enough to shield one from inquiries other than law enforcement, but is obviously going to be very expensive. I'm not qualified to advise anyone on the specifics of how to go about that.
If you don't have such resources, think about moving - not so easy to track if you sublet - and most important, change your phone number. Switch to a pay-as-you-go service and use gift cards to develop a parallel financial identity. Your phone # is the biggest giveaway, followed by bills and property records. That won't hide you from private detectives or professional snoopers but will be sufficient to avoid an internet hate machine.
> Your phone # is the biggest giveaway
How does that work? (Sorry for maybe a bit silly question)
> setting up a shell company
Can't the doxxers find out who owns the shell company?
Or they won't know about the existence of a shell company? Or how does it work
> use gift cards
One would buy gift cards to oneself, use them oneself, right?
How does that work? (Sorry for maybe a bit silly question)
> setting up a shell company
Can't the doxxers find out who owns the shell company?
Or they won't know about the existence of a shell company? Or how does it work
> use gift cards
One would buy gift cards to oneself, use them oneself, right?
People like to hang on to the same phone # so that makes it super-easy for data brokers/snoops to track. Yes, people could find out who owns a shell company, but that's the kind of work private detectors or financial investigators do, and they don't do it unless they get paid, which is an investment most doxxers wouldn't want to make.
Transparency varies from state to state, but some states let you set up corporations with very little transparency, iirc Delaware specializes in this to the point that it's become a problem for financial laundering/tax avoidance, eg https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/06/panama-paper...
You can buy gift cards that work with Visa or Mastercard, and some vendors will let you reload them (I think Walmart does this). That would give you a fair degree of privacy for doing things online and in combination with other things make you invisible from all but very dedicated investigators (or law enforcement).
by the way, this article, while aimed at political activists, has lots of useful information and links on how to prevent and/or deal with such a situation: https://crimethinc.com/2020/08/26/doxcare-prevention-and-aft...
Transparency varies from state to state, but some states let you set up corporations with very little transparency, iirc Delaware specializes in this to the point that it's become a problem for financial laundering/tax avoidance, eg https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/06/panama-paper...
You can buy gift cards that work with Visa or Mastercard, and some vendors will let you reload them (I think Walmart does this). That would give you a fair degree of privacy for doing things online and in combination with other things make you invisible from all but very dedicated investigators (or law enforcement).
by the way, this article, while aimed at political activists, has lots of useful information and links on how to prevent and/or deal with such a situation: https://crimethinc.com/2020/08/26/doxcare-prevention-and-aft...
Thanks for the explanations and the links. The doxx prevention article was very informative
Glad you brought up services like these, I've been using DeleteMe (https://joindeleteme.com/index.php) for a while, and their prices are extremely reasonable (~$100 per year). I think other services might be more thorough and are more suitable for more intense threats, but I think DeleteMe is really good for most average doxxing threat models.
This is an interesting question. Given your admission that your identity is loosely linked to your online accounts, I don't think it's possible to prevent someone from doxxing you-- someone just needs to tie it all together.
I agree with sibling comments here that the only way to really prevent someone from identifying you from your online personas would be to start over. If you want to truly be anonymous, you need to build these new personas with OPSEC in mind. The process includes 5 general steps:
1. Identify information you feel is critical. In your case, this could be anything that ties your online activity to your real life identity.
2. Identify your threat. This can be simple or complex depending on your needs. Are you concerned about hiding from pissed off gamers, hacktivists, or a nation state? Knowing the enemy you face will help you better understand their potential capabilities to find out information about you and how they could use this information.
3. Assess your vulnerabilities. Look at yourself from the viewpoint of the attacker. What information would you use to dox yourself?
4. Assess your risk. This can also be pretty involved depending on your vulnerabilities and threats. What could someone do with this information? How bad could you be hurt?
5. Apply countermeasures. Figure out how you can mitigate the risk you found above. This may include closing old accounts, creating new accounts, creating alternate personas, disinformation, heading off potential impact from a dox, etc.
Hope my ramblings helped.
I agree with sibling comments here that the only way to really prevent someone from identifying you from your online personas would be to start over. If you want to truly be anonymous, you need to build these new personas with OPSEC in mind. The process includes 5 general steps:
1. Identify information you feel is critical. In your case, this could be anything that ties your online activity to your real life identity.
2. Identify your threat. This can be simple or complex depending on your needs. Are you concerned about hiding from pissed off gamers, hacktivists, or a nation state? Knowing the enemy you face will help you better understand their potential capabilities to find out information about you and how they could use this information.
3. Assess your vulnerabilities. Look at yourself from the viewpoint of the attacker. What information would you use to dox yourself?
4. Assess your risk. This can also be pretty involved depending on your vulnerabilities and threats. What could someone do with this information? How bad could you be hurt?
5. Apply countermeasures. Figure out how you can mitigate the risk you found above. This may include closing old accounts, creating new accounts, creating alternate personas, disinformation, heading off potential impact from a dox, etc.
Hope my ramblings helped.
Fortunately, I'm just asking this question out of curiosity right now.
Putting this in an OPSEC perspective makes the problem a lot clearer. Your reply complements anigbrowl's sibling comment, which gets into some options for countermeasures.
Putting this in an OPSEC perspective makes the problem a lot clearer. Your reply complements anigbrowl's sibling comment, which gets into some options for countermeasures.
What is your threat model? Whom you are hiding from and what will happen when the info leaks?
If you are the generally paranoid though, never publish photos from around your home, never make online purchases with home delivery, but choose midpoints like post stations to collect them.
Assume that if you type your info somewhere, it would be sold and will pop up somewhere. Currently my name, home address, and phone are published in a american data broker website. If I want them removed, I need to send them an id with even more personal data and even then they insist that it will be hidden from public view, not deleted. I need a lawyer if I want the situation delt with properly.
If you are the generally paranoid though, never publish photos from around your home, never make online purchases with home delivery, but choose midpoints like post stations to collect them.
Assume that if you type your info somewhere, it would be sold and will pop up somewhere. Currently my name, home address, and phone are published in a american data broker website. If I want them removed, I need to send them an id with even more personal data and even then they insist that it will be hidden from public view, not deleted. I need a lawyer if I want the situation delt with properly.
I haven't looked into data brokers yet. (Not tonight's problem!) How did you go about verifying what data of yours they have?
I just googled my name one day. It is unusual enough to have a limited number of results and this website popped up with my name, home address and phone. They must've slurped from some dodgy website where I've shopped or the like, not sure.
In case that you have too much results on your name, you can add keywords like "home", "home address", "phone number", and the like. Additionally, you can add the exact values, but those will be visible for the search engine, and maybe for someone who is smart enough to go through all queries in google trends that include your name.
In case that you have too much results on your name, you can add keywords like "home", "home address", "phone number", and the like. Additionally, you can add the exact values, but those will be visible for the search engine, and maybe for someone who is smart enough to go through all queries in google trends that include your name.
If it can happen, it most likely will happen if someone really wanted to (ie by doing phising attacks, looking up public records, hiring private investigators, etc), so the best thing to do is to think about what can be done to minimize any collateral damage after the fact (ie protecting your image, securing online accounts, keeping your home safe, etc), since any sensitive information (ie confidential or embarrassing) they can acquire can be used to blackmail. It's pretty hard to remain anonymous online for a long time given how everything is connected and archived on the internet these days.
The easiest way is to be insignificant. But it's still no guarantee.
Well, I've got that one covered!
People have landed in hot water for something they wrote or said decades ago. I'm guessing the OP is asking for a strategy that's reasonably future-proof.
Insignificant people? Who?
1) Promptly stop saying anything interesting under your real name. Opt out of all social media except to post messages like "Congratulations on the baby!". This will prevent you from making any enemies who know your real name, and reduce the chances anyone will want to doxx you.
2) Start adopting new pseudonyms. Use a different one on every site, and a password keeper to help you stay logged in. If you happen to forget, don't worry. Treat every account as disposable. These are not "you". This is not "your brand". These are merely tools that allow to into a walled garden party wearing the mask of anonymity.
3) Do not mix your two online personas. Keep your politics, jokes, and personality in your pseudononymous accounts. Keep your boring safe opinions and pictures of dogs in your primary account. Don't talk about anything in your real life in your pseudonymous accounts, even the weather. Reserve that kind of discussion for in-person friends only. If you make a mistake, just delete the account and make a new one.
2) Start adopting new pseudonyms. Use a different one on every site, and a password keeper to help you stay logged in. If you happen to forget, don't worry. Treat every account as disposable. These are not "you". This is not "your brand". These are merely tools that allow to into a walled garden party wearing the mask of anonymity.
3) Do not mix your two online personas. Keep your politics, jokes, and personality in your pseudononymous accounts. Keep your boring safe opinions and pictures of dogs in your primary account. Don't talk about anything in your real life in your pseudonymous accounts, even the weather. Reserve that kind of discussion for in-person friends only. If you make a mistake, just delete the account and make a new one.
2a. Unique usernames per site are essential. Even better if you use common words that will have millions of hits in search engines.
4. Don’t use the same profile picture on multiple sites. Tineye will link them together.
4. Don’t use the same profile picture on multiple sites. Tineye will link them together.
Do people still use Tineye with the advent of Google's reverse image search?
yes google image doesn't do fingerprinting technique anymore, they moved to something that does categorical matching and it isn't that good for exact image matching
This is what I do. I have “work profiles” and for everything else I just come up with a username every few months, leaving behind any “karma” I don’t need.
For example the username of this month for HN is mumblerino.
For example the username of this month for HN is mumblerino.
Yes 'letting go of karma' is definitely a spiritual recommendation, that might very well ironically have the exact same cathartic application in the online social media universe.
It's like we need an 18th century Swami's guidance on how to deal with 21st century woes: 'let go of karma'.
It's like we need an 18th century Swami's guidance on how to deal with 21st century woes: 'let go of karma'.
You are hilarious!
One loophole here is that statistical/machine learning analytics tools may still be able to correlate these posts as coming from the same writer.
We should probably also use a tool that just converts our posts into a generic style and remove any personal touches like the usual vocabulary, expressions, punctuation styles someone might use. Is there anything like that out there?
We should probably also use a tool that just converts our posts into a generic style and remove any personal touches like the usual vocabulary, expressions, punctuation styles someone might use. Is there anything like that out there?
I tried changing my writing style on my different personas and it is extremely difficult to keep up with. On one I'd never capitalize anything, another I would never use apostrophes, and then I had one that always used the wrong form of they're/their/there or to/too. Despite all those efforts, I could never consistently change my vocabulary and I did have someone call out a post of mine and link it to secondary accounts. I ended up ignoring the allegation and I never heard from the person again.
If there was some service to normalize, or better yet randomize writing styles, I'd love to know about them.
If there was some service to normalize, or better yet randomize writing styles, I'd love to know about them.
I don’t think you actually need to change the writing style, you just need to make sure that the corpus of writing for each and every identity is small. Then the error bounds on the probability that any particular piece of writing is by the same author as another piece of writing on the internet will be so wide as to effectively make such analysis useless.
Ideally, any site like reddit that allows pseudonymity would have a super lightweight way of creating multiple parallel new usernames for you to post under, with a way for you to see a coherent view of everything your multiple identities have posted, but where to everyone else, each identity looks like a separate user.
Ideally, any site like reddit that allows pseudonymity would have a super lightweight way of creating multiple parallel new usernames for you to post under, with a way for you to see a coherent view of everything your multiple identities have posted, but where to everyone else, each identity looks like a separate user.
easily fixed: google translate your writing through a few languages before back to English
This is what I got with your comment, after going from English > Spanish > German > Vietnamese > Turkish > Chinese (Traditional) and finally back to English:
> Easy to fix: Google translates your text into several languages and then back to English
I'm actually a little surprised it was as close as it is. The form of the sentence has changed, but the meaning is still easy enough to figure out.
EDIT: Avoid adding Esperanto and Latin. That results in this:
> Easy to configure Google translates your text is in English and in other languages
> Easy to fix: Google translates your text into several languages and then back to English
I'm actually a little surprised it was as close as it is. The form of the sentence has changed, but the meaning is still easy enough to figure out.
EDIT: Avoid adding Esperanto and Latin. That results in this:
> Easy to configure Google translates your text is in English and in other languages
1) Do not immediately use your real name to say funny things. Exit all social media, but "Congratulations baby!" Post a message like. This prevents you from meeting enemies who know your real name and reduces the chances of someone being you.
2) Start adopting a new pen name. Use different content on each site and use the password manager to stay in login. If you forget, don't worry. Treat all accounts as one-time accounts. that is not you. This is not "your brand". These are simply tools for putting on an anonymous mask and attending a walled garden party.
3) Do not mix the two online roles. Save your politics, jokes and personality in a pseudonym account. Keep boring and safe comments and dog pictures in your default account. Anonymous accounts do not talk about the weather in real life. Book such discussions only with family and friends. If you make a mistake, please delete your account and create a new one.
(English > Korean > Chinese > Hindi > English)
2) Start adopting a new pen name. Use different content on each site and use the password manager to stay in login. If you forget, don't worry. Treat all accounts as one-time accounts. that is not you. This is not "your brand". These are simply tools for putting on an anonymous mask and attending a walled garden party.
3) Do not mix the two online roles. Save your politics, jokes and personality in a pseudonym account. Keep boring and safe comments and dog pictures in your default account. Anonymous accounts do not talk about the weather in real life. Book such discussions only with family and friends. If you make a mistake, please delete your account and create a new one.
(English > Korean > Chinese > Hindi > English)
Reporter: how did you catch the suspect?
Police: it turned out Google Translate had a record of all their posts!
Police: it turned out Google Translate had a record of all their posts!
It's exceedingly simple to correlate posts. I was able to use the stylo[1] R package to identify authors with just 3 tweets (requires testing against suspected authors), with 100% accuracy.
Robin Camille's master's thesis project[2] is one of the tools available to protect yourself against attacks like these. I had the idea to make something like this but learned that she beat me to it during my research phase.
[1] https://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/stylo/stylo.pdf
[2] https://github.com/robincamille/nondescript
Robin Camille's master's thesis project[2] is one of the tools available to protect yourself against attacks like these. I had the idea to make something like this but learned that she beat me to it during my research phase.
[1] https://cran.r-project.org/web/packages/stylo/stylo.pdf
[2] https://github.com/robincamille/nondescript
To add on - having an account under your real name that's safe and boring is essential. Some jobs and visa applications require you to disclose your social media, and having a safe account to show there is necessary.
What if you dont have social media accounts? Surely you can just tell these jobs/visa applications you don't have any.
That stands out as a red flag in this day and age, really. Having a simple account with your real name that has a few dog pics is far more stealthy than claiming you really don't interact with social media at all.
I have no Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or anything else, am.i that much of an outlier?
This depends on your age group and country of origin I would think. If you are between the age of 16 and 30 and in a western first world country, then yes - you would be an outlier. If you were 60 -70 years old from Mongolia, then no.
Although if celticninja is a 60-70yo from Mongolia, they are presumably an outlier for posting here.
Do you have a source that says that that stands out as a red flag? And in which countries?
As far as I know, only the USA has gone so far as to ask for social media accounts for some visas. (I might be out of date)
As far as I know, only the USA has gone so far as to ask for social media accounts for some visas. (I might be out of date)
I had to provide them for a Chinese visa last year.
It's just my personal experience. I've had funny looks given to me when I say I'm not on facebook, and when I was off whatsapp for a brief while people refused to believe I had a smartphone but didn't use whatsapp.
E: I'm speaking more about job applications. The US Visa application requirement is of course already being litigated, and hopefully will soon not be a requirement any more.
E: I'm speaking more about job applications. The US Visa application requirement is of course already being litigated, and hopefully will soon not be a requirement any more.
Ah, so it's just a story you are telling yourself and us.
That makes a lot more sense!
That makes a lot more sense!
I have literally been asked for Whatsapp and Facebook details on my job applications.
My mother's friend was told to give up her Facebook password for a job at the police station. She accepted the terms, for some reason. This was for an administrative-type job at a police station that did not involve police work or any kind.
So, yeah, it absolutely does happen and to different (sometimes frightening) degrees.
So, yeah, it absolutely does happen and to different (sometimes frightening) degrees.
No one can give you a list of countries where this rule will apply tomorrow.
I never fail to find it odd that, in an industry once notorious for people with introversion and and lack of social aptitude, vigorous participation in social media has now become all but compulsory. The mundanes really have taken over.
No it doesn't.
Most people are not on Twitter or Insta the only possible 'odd one' would be Facebook, and you can say you deleted your account a while ago.
That leaves not much.
Most people are not on Twitter or Insta the only possible 'odd one' would be Facebook, and you can say you deleted your account a while ago.
That leaves not much.
Really? I've been at the same job since college and they just had my transcript, in-person interview, and drug test results. Social media doesn't come up in any interviews. Maybe HR searches for obvious red flags via Google, but not that I'm aware of. I don't work in software though. Is it really that common when applying for software positions?
It almost certainly depends on your location and the industry, plus your relative skill as well.
I suppose if people keep repeating this, then it might be a thing with a given group of people who keep repeating it to each other. In that case, good luck hiring people like me or that other person here who clearly thinks it's wrong to think like this.
I can assure you, our value over time exceeds that of dogmatic thinkers. That's because, by the time you believe something, it's no longer true and we know that to be a fact before you do because we don't buy into this story.
I can assure you, our value over time exceeds that of dogmatic thinkers. That's because, by the time you believe something, it's no longer true and we know that to be a fact before you do because we don't buy into this story.
Probably not a bad idea to have "dummy" accounts but that's something that would need maintenaince to be convincing. When it comes to prospective employers, a more robust strategy is to work toward developing skills and abilities sufficient to provide you with enough options that you don't ever need to bend over for an employer.
Obviously, not viable for a new grad but it should be a goal. My career has been long with many failures but also notable successes and certain rare, valuable skills. In one recent case I was resigning my position to take some time off and do other things. I was senior, only a couple levels under the CEO at a very large F500 multi-national. The company really wanted me to stay on for a year or two more.
I generally liked the work and the people and they offered even more money to stay but for me one of the issues was that the inevitable HR policy creep was adding stuff like mandatory training sessions that were getting tedious and annoying. Basically, liked the work but hated the bullshit. So we made a novel arrangement. Any mandatory policy at the company requiring my attendance was optional for me. In the case of "specifically mandated and enforced compliance with a relevant government regulation" my boss had to explain why and just ask me. (I'm not unreasonable and there are a few SEC and state regs that they really can't just ignore).
This worked out very well and was a small but meaningful concession that really cost them nothing.
Obviously, not viable for a new grad but it should be a goal. My career has been long with many failures but also notable successes and certain rare, valuable skills. In one recent case I was resigning my position to take some time off and do other things. I was senior, only a couple levels under the CEO at a very large F500 multi-national. The company really wanted me to stay on for a year or two more.
I generally liked the work and the people and they offered even more money to stay but for me one of the issues was that the inevitable HR policy creep was adding stuff like mandatory training sessions that were getting tedious and annoying. Basically, liked the work but hated the bullshit. So we made a novel arrangement. Any mandatory policy at the company requiring my attendance was optional for me. In the case of "specifically mandated and enforced compliance with a relevant government regulation" my boss had to explain why and just ask me. (I'm not unreasonable and there are a few SEC and state regs that they really can't just ignore).
This worked out very well and was a small but meaningful concession that really cost them nothing.
[deleted]
The flaw in this is that in 10 years, saying "congratulations on the baby!" might be considered extremely distasteful.
"You can google me and find my social media account"
Why can i do this? Sounds like you know the problem already and want a push ;)
A lot of people I know have, no photo of their face, and not their real full name, and goes without saying totally private. Use Facebooks feature to check you have no accidental public ones.
Using photos people have taken from their house, I've found the location and unit numbers before. So all these need to be private if you are really worried.
Wives/husbands/family are good attack vectors. Not much you can do here to begin with. But you want things locked down to at least friends of friends.
I shouldn't be able to easily escalate from necessary public profiles to private ones.
But it's all about working towards the goal. Just make a start. Every little bit reduces the chance you'll get doxxed. You might just have to be the stronger gazelle.
Maybe privacy is dead, maybe it's about having a job you can't be fired from or a gun in the house? Some peoples incomes depend on the public profiles.
Why can i do this? Sounds like you know the problem already and want a push ;)
A lot of people I know have, no photo of their face, and not their real full name, and goes without saying totally private. Use Facebooks feature to check you have no accidental public ones.
Using photos people have taken from their house, I've found the location and unit numbers before. So all these need to be private if you are really worried.
Wives/husbands/family are good attack vectors. Not much you can do here to begin with. But you want things locked down to at least friends of friends.
I shouldn't be able to easily escalate from necessary public profiles to private ones.
But it's all about working towards the goal. Just make a start. Every little bit reduces the chance you'll get doxxed. You might just have to be the stronger gazelle.
Maybe privacy is dead, maybe it's about having a job you can't be fired from or a gun in the house? Some peoples incomes depend on the public profiles.
Perhaps I've put too much trust in social media companies' privacy controls. I trust you can find my accounts but see very little of my profiles or posts of relevance to my offline life. Perhaps it's time to make myself less searchable.
Yeah. You should avoid following people directly too. That reveals a lot about you. You can make a private twitter list.
A real interesting point someone else makes is, it's probably like a code review. You'll find it hard to find your own errors, but it's always fun for someone else to find your mistakes.
>Wives/husbands/family are good attack vectors. Not much you can do here to begin with. But you want things locked down to at least friends of friends.
Fun doxxing trick: 80% of the time your "first-friend" on social media is your significant other.
Honestly, if you opt out of social media, you'll save yourself a lot of headache trying to lock it down. You'll make mistakes. And if you don't, then your spouse will. Or your friend. Or your coworkers. They'll upload a photo of you, or leave their account public, or get their account hacked... The only way to win is not to play.
Fun doxxing trick: 80% of the time your "first-friend" on social media is your significant other.
Honestly, if you opt out of social media, you'll save yourself a lot of headache trying to lock it down. You'll make mistakes. And if you don't, then your spouse will. Or your friend. Or your coworkers. They'll upload a photo of you, or leave their account public, or get their account hacked... The only way to win is not to play.
If you’re trying to prevent an online persona from being tied to your real identity, then you just have to be incredibly paranoid about anonymity. It’s not enough to hide your name, you have to consider hiding anything that makes you identifiable. If I knew somebody was a software engineer, well I wouldn’t know how to find out who they were. If I knew they were a software engineer from Arkansas who contributed to Rust projects, all of a sudden my search would have been narrowed down significantly.
If you want to prevent somebody who knows your identity from finding your phone number, address, etc... good luck. Whether somebody can find that would pretty much boil down to how much effort they’re willing to invest.
Source: I used to do some of these sorts of OSINT investigations as part of a fraud investigations team.
If you want to prevent somebody who knows your identity from finding your phone number, address, etc... good luck. Whether somebody can find that would pretty much boil down to how much effort they’re willing to invest.
Source: I used to do some of these sorts of OSINT investigations as part of a fraud investigations team.
Its almost worth changing your name if you have an unusual one. It must be great to be have a name like John Smith because no one can google you to find anything interesting.
Google your full name (and any variations, Edward -> Ed, etc) and remove yourself from these whitepage direcetory type websites that people can look up your past/current residences
do your family a favor and remove them too
do your family a favor and remove them too
Read everything ever written by thegrugq and apply it.
Effectively you've already doxxed yourself. The ability to associate a real name with an address without excessive effort predates the internet and these days it is even easier, so with the internet the only winning move is not to play. Stop using your real name, period. Creating fame and an online persona that can pay your bills is directly at odds with maintaining privacy.
I’d say, vote.
Extreme Privacy: What It Takes to Disappear by Michael Bazzell
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0898YGR58
This guy sells books on both sides, OSINT and privacy.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0898YGR58
This guy sells books on both sides, OSINT and privacy.
Brian Krebs (krebsonsecurity.com) has a lot of fascinating stories on his blog on doxxing and revealing identities of people for whom remaining anonymous was vital (spoiler alert: they couldn't).
Keeping totally separate identities across different services is key (using unrelated usernames, avatars, emails for every service). It’s also extremely difficult and unpractical to pull off.
In most doxxing cases perpetrators manage to get access to a single service and use it as a foothold to penetrate to other services. For example, someone learns your email from a forum, somehow hacks your email, gains access to Dropbox and finds the scan of your passport, driver's licence and social security card. Email in general is the key one's digital kingdom so the surest way to minimize the blast radius is to keep everything separate and unrelated.
Edit: typos
Keeping totally separate identities across different services is key (using unrelated usernames, avatars, emails for every service). It’s also extremely difficult and unpractical to pull off.
In most doxxing cases perpetrators manage to get access to a single service and use it as a foothold to penetrate to other services. For example, someone learns your email from a forum, somehow hacks your email, gains access to Dropbox and finds the scan of your passport, driver's licence and social security card. Email in general is the key one's digital kingdom so the surest way to minimize the blast radius is to keep everything separate and unrelated.
Edit: typos
Fyi: Brian Krebs. No C.
https://krebsonsecurity.com/
Thank you! I fixed my comment.
2FA on email definitely helps...
I've actually considered just scrubbing most of my online posts on social media (not that it's absolute) and using a chromebook + prepaid burner phone for new online personas per site. I've always tried to be honest about myself, my thoughts and opinions... that said, people are getting truly crazy out there.
I've actually considered just scrubbing most of my online posts on social media (not that it's absolute) and using a chromebook + prepaid burner phone for new online personas per site. I've always tried to be honest about myself, my thoughts and opinions... that said, people are getting truly crazy out there.
At the most basic level, don't say anything online you wouldn't want seen again. Not in discord, not on twitter, nowhere. Always treat anything you disclose online as if it's public knowledge from that point on. Even if you delete it, there's a tonne of third parties that archive data you post, even on more "ephemeral" services.
Isn't it a given that the OP still wants to take part in online society.
You're comment is more like "stop your eyes stinging when you're in the pool by never going in the pool", but they're looking for mitigations not avoidance.
You're comment is more like "stop your eyes stinging when you're in the pool by never going in the pool", but they're looking for mitigations not avoidance.
That's not the same. I'm not suggesting giving up social networks. What I mean by "never say anything you don't want sticking around" is that you should never disclose things that could be used to dox you. Never give anything more than a very general general area for location, or speak about which college you went to, or where you work. Talking about hobbies is fine, preferably on multiple accounts so nobody can link them together into a complete profile.
don't say anything online you wouldn't want seen again
But the rules change at random, what is perfectly fine to say one day may not be the next.
But the rules change at random, what is perfectly fine to say one day may not be the next.
It seems to me that the whole threat of being doxxed relies on two things: (1) that you’ve done something in one sphere of life that would be reprehensible (and maybe actionable) to another sphere of life, and (2) that the unholy Russian Twitter not mob can influence that other sphere of life.
It may not be possible to have different spheres of life cohabitate peacefully, especially if the doxxing involves shining light on old character flaws you’ve since remedied, but thanks to the digital world we live in, can be easily surfaced. I’d say “get off social media forever” to at least prevent your self 20 years in the future having this same worry about whatever it is you are innocently sharing this month, but that always seems to draw a gasp from people who apparently can’t imagine life without the internet.
Seems to me that everyone who has ever been doxxed is doing “something” that draws attention to them. That doesn’t make it right, but I haven’t heard of doxxing of any quiet Amish families, or guys building cabins in the woods minding their own business.
It’s usually some loudmouth on some open source software forum, or some politician’s operative, or someone being a potential whistleblower.
What you are asking is, in essence, how can I keep from getting punched in the mouth? It’s not too difficult, if you think about it. Someone randomly punching you in the mouth “for no reason” is about as statistically probable as being struck my lightning twice in the same week.
Some people attack punches more than others. I’m not saying it’s right, or even deserved. Just that there are life choices that can increase the odds.
Maybe what you’re really asking is how can I avoid the risks of some life choices I am making or want to make?
All the advice here will only partially mitigate the risk. The only real way to eliminate it would be to make different choices to stop unwanted attraction.
I somewhat laughed at all the “privacy” tips here. My friend, if you tick off the wrong person, they will find you or hire someone good to do it for them. And if doxxing is their chosen revenge, you can’t choose to then decide to be a quiet mild-mannered ordinary citizen when you already opened your mouth and drew attention to yourself.
I’m sure everyone who flips someone off across the street wishes the same when they see the scrawny guy reach into his jacket and pull out a gun.
It may not be possible to have different spheres of life cohabitate peacefully, especially if the doxxing involves shining light on old character flaws you’ve since remedied, but thanks to the digital world we live in, can be easily surfaced. I’d say “get off social media forever” to at least prevent your self 20 years in the future having this same worry about whatever it is you are innocently sharing this month, but that always seems to draw a gasp from people who apparently can’t imagine life without the internet.
Seems to me that everyone who has ever been doxxed is doing “something” that draws attention to them. That doesn’t make it right, but I haven’t heard of doxxing of any quiet Amish families, or guys building cabins in the woods minding their own business.
It’s usually some loudmouth on some open source software forum, or some politician’s operative, or someone being a potential whistleblower.
What you are asking is, in essence, how can I keep from getting punched in the mouth? It’s not too difficult, if you think about it. Someone randomly punching you in the mouth “for no reason” is about as statistically probable as being struck my lightning twice in the same week.
Some people attack punches more than others. I’m not saying it’s right, or even deserved. Just that there are life choices that can increase the odds.
Maybe what you’re really asking is how can I avoid the risks of some life choices I am making or want to make?
All the advice here will only partially mitigate the risk. The only real way to eliminate it would be to make different choices to stop unwanted attraction.
I somewhat laughed at all the “privacy” tips here. My friend, if you tick off the wrong person, they will find you or hire someone good to do it for them. And if doxxing is their chosen revenge, you can’t choose to then decide to be a quiet mild-mannered ordinary citizen when you already opened your mouth and drew attention to yourself.
I’m sure everyone who flips someone off across the street wishes the same when they see the scrawny guy reach into his jacket and pull out a gun.
Find the courage to post under your real identity. Society can’t cancel everyone. In my experience whatever political activism you’re engaging in (you mentioned as much in a sibling comment) will benefit far more from association with a real humans than with “internet commenters”. Politics happen in the real world, the internet is not representative in that respect. There are very few things that require true anonymity, and in a liberalist society political speech is not and should not be one of them, despite trends of late. The only effective response is to fight back and speak up for what you believe is right. Don’t be a coward. I mean this in the most sincere way possible.
Why would you let an online hate mob ruin your real life? They generally have little relation to reality, and there's a decent chance they themselves are just being manipulated and used by others.
I do feel that I have a place in some online battles (or I'm just yelling into a whirlwind that someone else is controlling, but it can be fun), but I never link any of my identities. I take the stance that ideas are more powerful than solid identities.
Edit: Yes I agree, real world actions are much more powerful, and we should all spend less time online.
I do feel that I have a place in some online battles (or I'm just yelling into a whirlwind that someone else is controlling, but it can be fun), but I never link any of my identities. I take the stance that ideas are more powerful than solid identities.
Edit: Yes I agree, real world actions are much more powerful, and we should all spend less time online.
Well, yes, why would you let them? I don't want to live a life which could be ruined by a mob simply pointing out something I have said.
I can't help but wonder if people afraid of "doxxing" are paranoid or really posting stuff they'd never say in person (in which case you probably don't want to be posting them).
I understand that people get unfairly fired for social media posts. But that's what it is, an unfair firing. Why work at this kind of a place? And if you're very open about your beliefs you probably won't get yourself into this kind of a situation in the first place.
I can't help but wonder if people afraid of "doxxing" are paranoid or really posting stuff they'd never say in person (in which case you probably don't want to be posting them).
I understand that people get unfairly fired for social media posts. But that's what it is, an unfair firing. Why work at this kind of a place? And if you're very open about your beliefs you probably won't get yourself into this kind of a situation in the first place.
People die from doxxing, by getting "swotted".
I have a friend who had death threats sent to her parents. These people are vicious and relentless.
I have a friend who had death threats sent to her parents. These people are vicious and relentless.
That's a dumb way to look at it. You don't even need to say anything contraversial to attract the attention of idiots on the internet.
You can eliminate 80% of Internet harassment simply by being male (continuously from birth).
Don't use your real name online. I don't have any complicated privacy best practices, I'm just not on social media and don't use my real name online if I can at all help it.
Edit: Sounds like it's too late for you, but don't be an activist online using your real name unless you have some real, physical security.
Edit: Sounds like it's too late for you, but don't be an activist online using your real name unless you have some real, physical security.
I’m actually trying to address this problem by creating a place for “kind, clear and constructive” discussion online, which uses anonymous identities, so that all users can express themselves in safety. Of course, the hard thing is to have both high quality discussion and anonymity, take a look at conferacity.com if that sounds interesting.
Doesn't moderation solve the quality problem? Content is only low quality when the admins intentionally don't moderate.
Yes, but what we’re really trying to see is what happens if essentially everyone is a moderator? Or more specifically, what if the only people who can take part in the discussion are those who can care enough about high quality discussion to ensure that they and others adhere to some set of principles that encourage that kind of discussion. Those are obviously the kind of people who should be moderators, but if the whole community of contributors is that kind of person, maybe you could maintain the quality of the discussion as you scale?
Of course, you’d grow much slower, and maybe it’s impossible to get that kind of site to a critical mass of contributors. But it seems worth trying :)
Of course, you’d grow much slower, and maybe it’s impossible to get that kind of site to a critical mass of contributors. But it seems worth trying :)
Interestingly, nobody seems to have talked about email.
I run my own mail server, and I have a domain registered for handling incoming mail. Every single website, and I mean every single one, has a different email address under that domain.
Now, while it could be relatively easy to correlate all usernames with domain part of the email, I make it as difficult as possible.
Additionally, some handles are further separated. For example, my professional handles (so stuff I use at work but on my name, my GitHub public email, and similar stuff like that) are under other domain names from a professional (paid) email service. And even those aliases get changed over time (damn you automated email crawlers).
So even if the database of a website was leaked and my mail was in that database, I would , as soon as I’m made aware of the breach, delete the account immediately and instruct my mail server to discard all incoming mail to that address. Of course, every online identity of mine has a different name. This onr has a Japanese name, but I have others with common American names, tongue twisters, and sometimes keysmashes. Good luck correlating it all.
I run my own mail server, and I have a domain registered for handling incoming mail. Every single website, and I mean every single one, has a different email address under that domain.
Now, while it could be relatively easy to correlate all usernames with domain part of the email, I make it as difficult as possible.
Additionally, some handles are further separated. For example, my professional handles (so stuff I use at work but on my name, my GitHub public email, and similar stuff like that) are under other domain names from a professional (paid) email service. And even those aliases get changed over time (damn you automated email crawlers).
So even if the database of a website was leaked and my mail was in that database, I would , as soon as I’m made aware of the breach, delete the account immediately and instruct my mail server to discard all incoming mail to that address. Of course, every online identity of mine has a different name. This onr has a Japanese name, but I have others with common American names, tongue twisters, and sometimes keysmashes. Good luck correlating it all.
1) get a "burner" cell phone, pay in advance service that isn't tied to you. Use cash to buy "gift card" or prepaid ahead of time for anything you do with this phone or online. Disable location tracking.
2) get a chromebook or other cheap laptop that isn't connected to "you"
Use the laptop and phone for anything you do online. Do not connect to public wifi, or use the accounts on other devices or your personal accounts on these devices.
You should be able to stay relatively anonymous this way. You will have a phone and laptop to run whatever operations/statements or other activities you want to remain private from your real life person.
You may want to go a step farther and use a pre-paid VPN service for all activities as well. But by all means, don't mingle your devices...
2) get a chromebook or other cheap laptop that isn't connected to "you"
Use the laptop and phone for anything you do online. Do not connect to public wifi, or use the accounts on other devices or your personal accounts on these devices.
You should be able to stay relatively anonymous this way. You will have a phone and laptop to run whatever operations/statements or other activities you want to remain private from your real life person.
You may want to go a step farther and use a pre-paid VPN service for all activities as well. But by all means, don't mingle your devices...
Have your lawyer transact your business.
Have your holding companies own shell companies that own your assets.
The above is not complete snark: a friend's brother, whose daughter's fiesta de quinceañera I'd attended, was put in a coma working full-time for a fellow who employed two full-time accountants as part of his "family office" but who was not only too cheap to carry insurance but then even explicitly said the brother, as an independent contractor, should've had his own and refused to contribute anything towards his medical bills. I spent an afternoon trying to track down assets, and the structure I managed to reveal was ... interesting.
The above is not complete snark: a friend's brother, whose daughter's fiesta de quinceañera I'd attended, was put in a coma working full-time for a fellow who employed two full-time accountants as part of his "family office" but who was not only too cheap to carry insurance but then even explicitly said the brother, as an independent contractor, should've had his own and refused to contribute anything towards his medical bills. I spent an afternoon trying to track down assets, and the structure I managed to reveal was ... interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincea%C3%B1era
I'd never heard of that before.
I'd never heard of that before.
What are you trying to say?
that following recommendations of the first para makes doxxing difficult (the second para is to say I can confirm).
Doxxing is usually about revealing a person, not their assets. The structure you describe is perhaps useful for protecting one's finances, but not so much for protecting one's personal identity. I mean, you know who this guy actually is.
One thing: Delete url of your HN bio with information about who you are and hide your real name in the footer your website.
Essentially any info you have posted that you remember that can be linked to any of your real ID can be traced to you. Sometime it doesn’t need to be public as hackers sell a lot of these info from hacked sites. I would say difficult to hide unless you don’t really use the internet or you are so careful it takes the joy out of it.
Maybe adding false information?
Harder in blog articles if you already have an identity and a real name, but if you are in twitter or reddit, you can post about fake locations, hobbies, family members etc. This way at least is harder to be doxxed by automated tools and add some plausible deniability.
Harder in blog articles if you already have an identity and a real name, but if you are in twitter or reddit, you can post about fake locations, hobbies, family members etc. This way at least is harder to be doxxed by automated tools and add some plausible deniability.
My technique is to use my real name and offer only opinions that I think are quite reasonable. Of course I still run risks, but I imagine everything is knowable to someone determined enough to go looking for you. I'd hate to have posted something I wouldn't be proud of later.
That lets you live as a person of integrity (in the sense of "integral", that is, there's only one of you).
But it's not going to save you from the mob. Things that are quite reasonable can still set off the mob, because the mob is very much not reasonable.
But it's not going to save you from the mob. Things that are quite reasonable can still set off the mob, because the mob is very much not reasonable.
The problems are not kids, the problems are grownups. Like police, border control, visa applications, which can harass you if you dare to voice your opinions.
Which is a problematic turn of events. When I grew up, the western world was not like China or Eastern Europe, as it is now. So you didn't use pseudonyms, because your name was your brand. Only immature kids or lgbt people used pseudonyms, the rest was honest, and it helped you with your job prospects. Now a new wave of fear, bullshit and lies has taken over cooperate and public matters. You can now even trust the Eastern Europeans more than westerners.
Which is a problematic turn of events. When I grew up, the western world was not like China or Eastern Europe, as it is now. So you didn't use pseudonyms, because your name was your brand. Only immature kids or lgbt people used pseudonyms, the rest was honest, and it helped you with your job prospects. Now a new wave of fear, bullshit and lies has taken over cooperate and public matters. You can now even trust the Eastern Europeans more than westerners.
Avoid politics at all costs.
Stay quiet and mainly share content about food, gardening, and occasionally programming.
Stay quiet and mainly share content about food, gardening, and occasionally programming.
ask gwern
You have to define your threat model. The easiest way to not get doxxed is to always use a throwaway account. Don't bother having persistent identities online.
Let's say I wanted to prevent myself from being doxxed. What steps could I take to make it more difficult?