Ask HN: I could use some career advice
14 comments
Maybe my brain is easily tricked, but I've found that switching jobs lets me make-believe that everything is great for awhile, and the reality of building another CRUD app doesn't set in until a few months to a year later.
The reality is, 99% of companies aren't actually working on something interesting. They're just making incremental improvements on something that's been done many times, and 99% of the work is grunt work. The kind of research-driven code crafting us developers wish for simply doesn't exist in the programming world. Maybe someone out there is working on self-driving flying cars, but I willing to bet even that isn't as glamorous as it sounds. It's probably mostly turning academic algorithm code into something usable, a.k.a. rote transformation of math into code.
The reality is, 99% of companies aren't actually working on something interesting. They're just making incremental improvements on something that's been done many times, and 99% of the work is grunt work. The kind of research-driven code crafting us developers wish for simply doesn't exist in the programming world. Maybe someone out there is working on self-driving flying cars, but I willing to bet even that isn't as glamorous as it sounds. It's probably mostly turning academic algorithm code into something usable, a.k.a. rote transformation of math into code.
I work on self-driving flying cars, and I can assure you that the R&D phase includes work that _is_ as glamorous as it sounds, but there are also a ton of i's to dot and t's to cross. The very nature of building a usable product requires reliability, and reliability requires extensively covering all cases. Systematically going through everything is a lot of work.
The best advice that I can give is to seek joy in solving the "industry" version of your project (the joy of producing a truly reliable product - reliability is really hard), and/or to pursue your passions in side projects.
> the R&D phase includes work that _is_ as glamorous as it sounds
Could you elaborate on the type of work that goes on? How does one get to such interesting work? Does it typically involve minimally a PhD? (Asking as someone just beginning their career.)
Could you elaborate on the type of work that goes on? How does one get to such interesting work? Does it typically involve minimally a PhD? (Asking as someone just beginning their career.)
I have a bad habit of doing this. Every now and then I get a sudden surge of motivation so powerful that it allows me to uproot myself. Typically, I tell myself I’m going to take a new job and fix everything wrong in my life. I even come up with short and long term plans to do it. Then a year later I’m in the same depressed state I was before and have to wait for whatever will trigger the next surge and restart the cycle.
>The problem is that I have not been able to find any jobs in my area that actually allow me to do this.
This is because they don't exist. The people who have these jobs have created them; they weren't handed these jobs by their employers.
This often requires going above and beyond the pay grade, doing not only your work but whatever needs to be done. i.e: it is a momentary expenditure of a scarce ressource to reach escape velocity.
This is something I believe the majority of people will shy away from for fear of being a sucker or because they'd work "more than they're compensated for". I understand where they're coming from and that people have different circumstances and that there are abusive employers who'll take advantage of you, but you won't know if the envelope is set by yourself or your employer unless you expand it. If you do what most people do, you get what most people get.
There is a risk, but if you're in a good organization, there is payoff, and if you are in a bad organization, you'll get to know that quicker than if you had worked at a leisurely pace.
What I mean by going above and beyond: being good at the job and tasks you have been given is table steaks. That's your official job. Your mandate, though, is to make your team and organization win. Here's a reply that draws the contours of what I mean: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25367011
There's a lot to do at any company or organization that is not being done for a number of reasons. You can go ahead and be helpful and you'll be dealing with a lot of problems that will knock boredom out of you.
This is because they don't exist. The people who have these jobs have created them; they weren't handed these jobs by their employers.
This often requires going above and beyond the pay grade, doing not only your work but whatever needs to be done. i.e: it is a momentary expenditure of a scarce ressource to reach escape velocity.
This is something I believe the majority of people will shy away from for fear of being a sucker or because they'd work "more than they're compensated for". I understand where they're coming from and that people have different circumstances and that there are abusive employers who'll take advantage of you, but you won't know if the envelope is set by yourself or your employer unless you expand it. If you do what most people do, you get what most people get.
There is a risk, but if you're in a good organization, there is payoff, and if you are in a bad organization, you'll get to know that quicker than if you had worked at a leisurely pace.
What I mean by going above and beyond: being good at the job and tasks you have been given is table steaks. That's your official job. Your mandate, though, is to make your team and organization win. Here's a reply that draws the contours of what I mean: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25367011
There's a lot to do at any company or organization that is not being done for a number of reasons. You can go ahead and be helpful and you'll be dealing with a lot of problems that will knock boredom out of you.
Looks like you are suited to work at a smaller company or even a startup where you can "own" things but you are not willing to give up some of the perks that you currently have which are most likely at a more stable/larger company. Am I correct ? I say this because I run a small SAAS company and we are a very small team. I would love to hire owners who can own an entire piece of work which for developers means starting a real feature based on client feedback and finishing it up and releasing in production to see real effects on actual customers. All within few days or sometimes even quicker. You own the piece. But that means you discuss the requirements, brainstorm ideas, suggest and negotiate ways to implement it and then code the heck out of it. The problem is that in companies like mine, I cannot offer some perks like unlimited vacation (is that even a thing anymore), or great benefits like larger or more well funded companies.
As a data point, I've had 30+ years of working on projects where I wrote the whole product or I was responsible for a big portion.
I did it by working for tiny companies or a tiny teams and later as a consultant.
For example; the last company I worked for as an employee had the boss, me and another developer. At another place, I consulted for a company that just couldn't get out of its own way. I was the software guy, my friend was the hardware guy and the 3rd guy did the mechanical engineering stuff. We were a small team but we could move fast.
I did it by working for tiny companies or a tiny teams and later as a consultant.
For example; the last company I worked for as an employee had the boss, me and another developer. At another place, I consulted for a company that just couldn't get out of its own way. I was the software guy, my friend was the hardware guy and the 3rd guy did the mechanical engineering stuff. We were a small team but we could move fast.
I'm the opposite. I don't dislike my job, and I absolute like the people I work with.
But earning 800$ a month for the amount of work I do is soul crushing. Life in Mexico is cheaper, but not that much cheaper.
At 25, I know I'm still young, but I also know I could be earning much, much more than that but I haven't had any luck with interviews recently.
At this point, the only thing I wish for is being able to rent a place on a relatively safe neighborhood without spending 70% of my salary on it.
But earning 800$ a month for the amount of work I do is soul crushing. Life in Mexico is cheaper, but not that much cheaper.
At 25, I know I'm still young, but I also know I could be earning much, much more than that but I haven't had any luck with interviews recently.
At this point, the only thing I wish for is being able to rent a place on a relatively safe neighborhood without spending 70% of my salary on it.
If you're ultimate goal is to start your own business, then that's what you should constantly aim for.
If you currently have a job that's flexible with the working hours, you get alright pay with vacation days, it sounds like you're already perfectly setup to execute the typical "Wage slave by day, business owner by night" lifestyle where you work on your own business in the free time you have, while spending your day earning a living and support the early stages of your own business.
If you currently have a job that's flexible with the working hours, you get alright pay with vacation days, it sounds like you're already perfectly setup to execute the typical "Wage slave by day, business owner by night" lifestyle where you work on your own business in the free time you have, while spending your day earning a living and support the early stages of your own business.
"The pay is okay. Supports my cost of living and higher than most people my age, but a little underpaid compared to most Software Engineers in the US.
The thing I don't like is my actual work. From the day I got here (3 years ago) I've found the work to be really boring 90% of the time. I would prefer to work somewhere that I can work on an actual product from start to finish. And also work on products that have some actual value to them. I don't really care much for the code, I'm more interested in building products and optimizing them and learning along the way."
Pretty much my same situation, but I hate my job due to doublespeak and being screwed over. Basically, I've learned to accept it. We can't all be astronauts etc. I think the Japanese have a cultural understanding that it's best to hope that your child is average. Makes sense when you consider standard distribution etc. I'll try to work and save so I can retire someday.
The thing I don't like is my actual work. From the day I got here (3 years ago) I've found the work to be really boring 90% of the time. I would prefer to work somewhere that I can work on an actual product from start to finish. And also work on products that have some actual value to them. I don't really care much for the code, I'm more interested in building products and optimizing them and learning along the way."
Pretty much my same situation, but I hate my job due to doublespeak and being screwed over. Basically, I've learned to accept it. We can't all be astronauts etc. I think the Japanese have a cultural understanding that it's best to hope that your child is average. Makes sense when you consider standard distribution etc. I'll try to work and save so I can retire someday.
I think this is telling you that you're ready for something more - something bigger than what you're doing. One possible step is to go to your boss and say "I think I'm ready for a bigger role. What do you have that you could give me?" Many bosses do not have a problem with employees wanting to do more.
Note, though, that you need to be very careful to clarify that you want harder work, not just more work. The goal is not to start working 12-hour days; the goal is work that challenges you enough that you're not bored.
Note, though, that you need to be very careful to clarify that you want harder work, not just more work. The goal is not to start working 12-hour days; the goal is work that challenges you enough that you're not bored.
Hi, I noticed your question here and it seems like from what you're saying you just feel like there's no passion. I have had many jobs since my high school days then finally decided I needed to do something about it. I want to share a link with you I really hope you don't mind. This link contains a PDF and a few webinars I will be sending your way with powerful information. https://leosotx247.kartra.com/page/dive
> I would prefer to work somewhere that I can work on an actual product from start to finish. And also work on products that have some actual value to them. I don't really care much for the code, I'm more interested in building products and optimizing them and learning along the way.
You may want to look into product owner roles.
You may want to look into product owner roles.
I think there are not so many great things for professional developers to work on these days.
Most of the companies just using developers to better sell some shit to other companies to let those other companies sell another shit to users.
So either start something new and meaningful or find some good startup you believe in.
Most of the companies just using developers to better sell some shit to other companies to let those other companies sell another shit to users.
So either start something new and meaningful or find some good startup you believe in.
I like the flexible work hours that I have. I also like my unlimited vacation. And the Covid Restrictions have been the best thing for me because my company is now permanently remoted based and I can work from home indefinitely. I also generally like my co-workers and managers are alright.
The pay is okay. Supports my cost of living and higher than most people my age, but a little underpaid compared to most Software Engineers in the US.
The thing I don't like is my actual work. From the day I got here (3 years ago) I've found the work to be really boring 90% of the time. I would prefer to work somewhere that I can work on an actual product from start to finish. And also work on products that have some actual value to them. I don't really care much for the code, I'm more interested in building products and optimizing them and learning along the way.
The problem is that I have not been able to find any jobs in my area that actually allow me to do this. Most of the jobs I come across just seem more of the same; I would just be a code monkey on some scrum team working for a boring financial company or something.
My ultimate goal is to start my own business but that takes time. Until then, what do you think I should focus on career wise?
Also, there are moments when I think about going back to school for Neuroscience or something else that I find more interesting but that costs a lot of money.