Ask HN: What is your low stress, high paid job?
105 comments
I own a farm in India. Indian people are moved by plight of poor farmers, which helps government subsidizes most of the inputs we require in farming. As most farms in India have pretty weak technology and automation, we are able to leverage subsidized inputs along with modern technology and produce yeilds as high as 20x the average yield.
Labor is cheap in India and it's easily found specially when we pay more for slightly more safer and comfortable work.
Supporting farmers is a sentimental thing for people in India so we are able to produce very large profits to the tune of several millions yearly in profit.
Previously I was a software engineer for a western company based in India it was very stressful job as you need to be available for Oncall troubleshooting anytime.
Labor is cheap in India and it's easily found specially when we pay more for slightly more safer and comfortable work.
Supporting farmers is a sentimental thing for people in India so we are able to produce very large profits to the tune of several millions yearly in profit.
Previously I was a software engineer for a western company based in India it was very stressful job as you need to be available for Oncall troubleshooting anytime.
If you don't mind, what do you produce on your farm and how many do you hire. It seems like you would need a high output yield to generate millions or have a pretty large farm. Also how do you sell your produce/product? Direct to consumers? Through retail?
Also curious to know how you came to doing this. Did you see it as an opportunity or just went into it through family
Also curious to know how you came to doing this. Did you see it as an opportunity or just went into it through family
Not OP, but we have a farm in India. Mostly we let it remain stagnant for a few years, so it's just been giving us coconuts.
Now we are starting an integrated fish farm + jackfruit farm + subsistence farm + livestock (goats only) approach. We have the fish farm because there's a nice irrigation stream that passes right by the side, wholly part of the farm (most farms of a certain land size will have some irrigation arrangement of the sort). The jackfruit is grown to sort of cater to the export demand for jackfruit abroad (especially with the whole "jackfruit as a meat trend"). Jackfruit trees grow thickly, so they provide a nice shade for any agriculture under the canopy at a reduced temperature (for stuff like spinach, tomatoes, pumpkins, etc) but that's mostly subsistence scale unless you go inorganic. Jackfruit leaves are really good as a feed for goats, which are the only animals that eat them and actually love eating them. The goats are sold for mutton to caterers for weddings and other functions.
Government gives electricity on the cheap as long as you show proof of agriculture (you cannot use it for your homes - they connect it separately and check it very often). The only issues have been theft of fish, for which we fit a bunch of security cameras around the place, so we were able to nab a couple of bastards. The main issue has been the semi-manual irrigation system, but I tested a prototype irrigation system using a Raspberry Pi for our small garden here, so I might try something similar for the farm back home.
Now we are starting an integrated fish farm + jackfruit farm + subsistence farm + livestock (goats only) approach. We have the fish farm because there's a nice irrigation stream that passes right by the side, wholly part of the farm (most farms of a certain land size will have some irrigation arrangement of the sort). The jackfruit is grown to sort of cater to the export demand for jackfruit abroad (especially with the whole "jackfruit as a meat trend"). Jackfruit trees grow thickly, so they provide a nice shade for any agriculture under the canopy at a reduced temperature (for stuff like spinach, tomatoes, pumpkins, etc) but that's mostly subsistence scale unless you go inorganic. Jackfruit leaves are really good as a feed for goats, which are the only animals that eat them and actually love eating them. The goats are sold for mutton to caterers for weddings and other functions.
Government gives electricity on the cheap as long as you show proof of agriculture (you cannot use it for your homes - they connect it separately and check it very often). The only issues have been theft of fish, for which we fit a bunch of security cameras around the place, so we were able to nab a couple of bastards. The main issue has been the semi-manual irrigation system, but I tested a prototype irrigation system using a Raspberry Pi for our small garden here, so I might try something similar for the farm back home.
Thanks for that. Gives a lot more perspective. Is it usually high maintenance to maintain the farm i.e. do you have people taking care of it - how hands on do you have to be for that.
I would expect GP to be a lot more involved and not less as the post title suggests but I was curious.
I would expect GP to be a lot more involved and not less as the post title suggests but I was curious.
Labour costs are usually suppressed because it's India. The erstwhile norm was to rely on unionized laborers for work, but migrants from the destitute states up north started coming en masse, which suppressed labor costs even further. As long as you give them a roof over their (families') head, 3 meals a day and a living wage to send back home to their village, they work reliably, especially when you need the manpower to guard against thieves or harvest season. Nobody I know uses heavy harvesting machinery except for cereals and some commodity vegetables - tech is mostly used for plant and livestock monitoring.
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Software engineer for a large bank. Pays well enough, though not at Silicon Valley levels, but I have a house in a nice neighborhood and a Tesla and lots of retirement savings. We get 4 weeks of vacation, health insurance, 4 months parental leave, and other benefits. I don't work much overtime and don't feel stressed about deadlines. It seems like the team leads and directors above me might feel some pressure, but I'm not really looking to take on management duties myself since I already am happy where I'm at.
I can second this. There’s of course some trade offs you have to make, but overall I feel much happier and relatively stress free.
It can be very frustrating too, I can’t even keep count of how many times our product launch has been delayed by the business because of some “urgent business requirements they pulled out of a hat. Our latest launch was scheduled for two weeks ago, a day before launch, business just cancelled it because they wanted to make some changes. Mind you that we have strict sign off processes that now all need to be redone. But that stress doesn’t fall on engineers.
It can be very frustrating too, I can’t even keep count of how many times our product launch has been delayed by the business because of some “urgent business requirements they pulled out of a hat. Our latest launch was scheduled for two weeks ago, a day before launch, business just cancelled it because they wanted to make some changes. Mind you that we have strict sign off processes that now all need to be redone. But that stress doesn’t fall on engineers.
Makes you wonder if half of what tech is doing that's turning incumbent industries upside down isn't software, but connecting people building things with business decisions.
Same here at a Fortune 20 in a low COL midwestern city. I've been doing the same job for 9 years, every day is different so it keeps me interested. Minimal off hours support, 40 hours a week is sometimes too much time. I made $120,000 this year to top it off. It's been a dream job for me, never thought I'd be here ever and I'm only 33... However I do stress often that I may be missing out on more money or that I may be falling behind on technology. I wish I could look far ahead to ensure I have what I need to keep job security.
What programming language(s) do you mostly use in your job?
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What’s your experience and pay? I’m 5 years and $130k. Same deal.
Those conditions & pay for a software engineer with similar experience seem comparable (after currency conversion between USD & AUD) to working a large bank in one of australia's major cities
> We get 4 weeks of vacation, health insurance, 4 months parental leave, and other benefits
As any permanent full time employee in Australia working for any employer, you'd get a minimum of 2 weeks of public holidays (depends on state), 20 days of annual leave, 10 days of personal leave (carer's & sick leave), and 12 months parental leave. There's health insurance funded through the public system decoupled from employment.
Compared to US this probably seems relatively socialist, compared to europe things are relatively neoliberal.
> We get 4 weeks of vacation, health insurance, 4 months parental leave, and other benefits
As any permanent full time employee in Australia working for any employer, you'd get a minimum of 2 weeks of public holidays (depends on state), 20 days of annual leave, 10 days of personal leave (carer's & sick leave), and 12 months parental leave. There's health insurance funded through the public system decoupled from employment.
Compared to US this probably seems relatively socialist, compared to europe things are relatively neoliberal.
So you’d get 130k USD? And what’s the tax rate? Pretty solid.
130k USD is currently about 170k AUD. That'd include base salary plus a mandatory employer contribution of 9.5% to a tax advantaged retirement fund (Australia's "superannuation" scheme).
Excluding retirement fund contribution, equivalent base salary would be around 155k AUD. That'd be subject to roughly 29% total income tax. There are no additional state level income taxes . So you'd end up with around 110k AUD cash. A single person who rents & shares a place can cover all baseline living expenses on a quarter of that.
Excluding retirement fund contribution, equivalent base salary would be around 155k AUD. That'd be subject to roughly 29% total income tax. There are no additional state level income taxes . So you'd end up with around 110k AUD cash. A single person who rents & shares a place can cover all baseline living expenses on a quarter of that.
About the same
Sounds like what I get at BOA. It’s not all sunshine and flowers. It depends on your team assignment and personality.
What programming language(s) do you mostly use in your job?
A Tesla but not SV level pay... do you live in a moderate or low COL location?
Tesla 3 loan payment is around $500. You can buy one even if you Uber (that is and you are very much into owning one).
Also Tesla’s are in the $40-$50k range now.
Moderate
> I haven't had a 'relaxing' holiday without worries in over 12 months and so I'm considering a change.
(I work in operations/devops engineering and not into sofware engineering so my point of view is a bit different, the underlying reasoning is applicable anyway, imho)
I made a point to grill the interviewers during the interview on such topics. HR bullshit like "we care for work-life balance" means nothing, I grill the technical interviewer when it comes to the usual "do you have any question for us?"
How do you manage on-call availability? How many people are on-call and how many at any given moment? Can on-call people escalate things further? To whom? Are developers on-call too? Do do you architect for HA? How? In your current architecture, what could be a single point of failure?
This kind of questions.
Any negative reply is a red flag. If I start seeing more than two-three red flags (or even one on an important question) then I'll pass.
My reasoning when I last changed job was that my job at the time was awful but I had a permanent contract, it would not have made sense to jump into another awful job and win the additional stress and risk derived from the probation time.
(I work in operations/devops engineering and not into sofware engineering so my point of view is a bit different, the underlying reasoning is applicable anyway, imho)
I made a point to grill the interviewers during the interview on such topics. HR bullshit like "we care for work-life balance" means nothing, I grill the technical interviewer when it comes to the usual "do you have any question for us?"
How do you manage on-call availability? How many people are on-call and how many at any given moment? Can on-call people escalate things further? To whom? Are developers on-call too? Do do you architect for HA? How? In your current architecture, what could be a single point of failure?
This kind of questions.
Any negative reply is a red flag. If I start seeing more than two-three red flags (or even one on an important question) then I'll pass.
My reasoning when I last changed job was that my job at the time was awful but I had a permanent contract, it would not have made sense to jump into another awful job and win the additional stress and risk derived from the probation time.
As someone who has interviewed maybe 30-40 sw and devops engineers over the last year, I wish more interviewees would ask things like this. It shows engagement and ability to speak up, as well as a healthy level of self care. Keep it up.
Those are some great questions. Some other interesting ones might be:
Do people on-call have the power to set up or reconfigure monitoring/alerting systems that cause them to get paged?
How did the org react after the last production failure that had serious business impact? (e.g. did postmortem followed up by making process or technical changes to prevent or reduce frequency of issue recurring ; blame: some person at pointy end gets fired but nothing changes ; fear: production change freeze for 3 months, including blocking changes to improve production system reliability... )
Do people on-call have the power to set up or reconfigure monitoring/alerting systems that cause them to get paged?
How did the org react after the last production failure that had serious business impact? (e.g. did postmortem followed up by making process or technical changes to prevent or reduce frequency of issue recurring ; blame: some person at pointy end gets fired but nothing changes ; fear: production change freeze for 3 months, including blocking changes to improve production system reliability... )
I’m a technical product manager for Indeed in Seattle. Previously I’ve worked as an engineer at Microsoft (both a- and fte, L59-61), an engineer (L5) at Amazon, a TPM (L5-L6) at Amazon, and an EPM (ICT4) at Apple.
Indeed is the best workplace I’ve ever had. The culture is seriously about helping - both each other and jobseekers. PTO is unlimited and strongly encouraged. When the office is open, we have the same free food as Google and Facebook (these used to be worse but improved dramatically a few months before Covid). People take the time to eat with each other, build relationships, make friends.
We discuss ways to ensure those with the least power are heard, and I think we listen to them - I’ve seen changes in the language we use to create inclusivity, and I’ve got two engineers on my team from the Ada bootcamp who I think are happy, and both getting promoted and recognized. I have leeway to trade revenue for, say, changes to our product that reduce unconscious bias in hiring. I also have leeway to target positive outcomes for people looking for work over revenue.
I am sure that like any company the mileage may vary. I make less than I did at Amazon or Apple, but I’m happy; I’d make the trade again in a second. If I think about work on a weekend it’s because I’ve got an exciting idea or solution I should write down, not because I’m anxious about next week.
I’d recommend Indeed to anyone.
Indeed is the best workplace I’ve ever had. The culture is seriously about helping - both each other and jobseekers. PTO is unlimited and strongly encouraged. When the office is open, we have the same free food as Google and Facebook (these used to be worse but improved dramatically a few months before Covid). People take the time to eat with each other, build relationships, make friends.
We discuss ways to ensure those with the least power are heard, and I think we listen to them - I’ve seen changes in the language we use to create inclusivity, and I’ve got two engineers on my team from the Ada bootcamp who I think are happy, and both getting promoted and recognized. I have leeway to trade revenue for, say, changes to our product that reduce unconscious bias in hiring. I also have leeway to target positive outcomes for people looking for work over revenue.
I am sure that like any company the mileage may vary. I make less than I did at Amazon or Apple, but I’m happy; I’d make the trade again in a second. If I think about work on a weekend it’s because I’ve got an exciting idea or solution I should write down, not because I’m anxious about next week.
I’d recommend Indeed to anyone.
Software Engineer/Solutions Architect at a fairly large company from SF. They opened up a European office, and now I am getting well above average income for a German based engineer, plus 30 day vacation etc. So sort-of SF pay (not quite) plus German social security and all the best of vacation days.
I worked in StartUps for 10 years and used to high output everyday. Now everyone seems stressed at this company but we have mostly corporations s clients and I am fairly good at my job.
During December, I probably played more games on Stadia than putting hours into work, but I still got 2-3 shoutouts from clients how pleased they were with my job.
I get nice stock options and it‘s the first time in my life I just want to sit out the next few years, do a decent job and wait for my stocks to be granted. This and Bitcoin will set me mostly free in a couple of years so I can say goodbye to fulltime work.
It‘s almost sad to see the mentality from my US colleagues who consntantly cheer and push themselves over nonsense in Slack, but their quality of life depends so much on their employer.
So yeah, being in Europe and finding a US company to work for, 90% remote is probably the dream, because you merge the upsides from the social system without the downside of boring company culture, and you get the pay from the US without all the downside of overworking yourself.
I am 32 and just realized how stressful Sodtware Engineering is in StartUps. I didn‘t realize how much I learned and did before I took a break. Now I want to do a decent job, be a bit loud or annoying in internal meetings so people think I really care, finish my jon in 3 hours and read or learn something on the side the rest of the 5 hours I have to clock in.
I mostly used it last year to get into Crypto and now DeFi, and made 3-times the money I did with my full time job.
This also broke me mentally, because it‘s hard to engage in „real life“ work after that experience.
I worked in StartUps for 10 years and used to high output everyday. Now everyone seems stressed at this company but we have mostly corporations s clients and I am fairly good at my job.
During December, I probably played more games on Stadia than putting hours into work, but I still got 2-3 shoutouts from clients how pleased they were with my job.
I get nice stock options and it‘s the first time in my life I just want to sit out the next few years, do a decent job and wait for my stocks to be granted. This and Bitcoin will set me mostly free in a couple of years so I can say goodbye to fulltime work.
It‘s almost sad to see the mentality from my US colleagues who consntantly cheer and push themselves over nonsense in Slack, but their quality of life depends so much on their employer.
So yeah, being in Europe and finding a US company to work for, 90% remote is probably the dream, because you merge the upsides from the social system without the downside of boring company culture, and you get the pay from the US without all the downside of overworking yourself.
I am 32 and just realized how stressful Sodtware Engineering is in StartUps. I didn‘t realize how much I learned and did before I took a break. Now I want to do a decent job, be a bit loud or annoying in internal meetings so people think I really care, finish my jon in 3 hours and read or learn something on the side the rest of the 5 hours I have to clock in.
I mostly used it last year to get into Crypto and now DeFi, and made 3-times the money I did with my full time job.
This also broke me mentally, because it‘s hard to engage in „real life“ work after that experience.
How did you find the position? Most remote jobs from the US are mostly restricted to the US.
I went from SE to Solutions Architect role. Many big US companies start a "Professional Services" divison where they help other big corps integrating their products.
These roles are, especially now, mostly remote. So it depends, this company wasn't afraid of big numbers and hired me. I get paid 120k Euro per year and 40k in stocks each year.
I have a family and we don't spend more than 3k each month all together. So 120k boils down to around 6.2k each month, plus my wife earns ok as well (teacher).
I know a few CTOs of smaller gompanies who make 120k without stocks.
So for me, that's a decent pay.
So yeah, look for other roles than SE.
These roles are, especially now, mostly remote. So it depends, this company wasn't afraid of big numbers and hired me. I get paid 120k Euro per year and 40k in stocks each year.
I have a family and we don't spend more than 3k each month all together. So 120k boils down to around 6.2k each month, plus my wife earns ok as well (teacher).
I know a few CTOs of smaller gompanies who make 120k without stocks.
So for me, that's a decent pay.
So yeah, look for other roles than SE.
I feel like there’s a bit of a moral dilemma here. You’re charging for a full day’s of work but only working a few hours a day. How do you deal with it?
I used to feel same way. If I didn't produce 8 hours of code then I felt guilty. If I got stuck on problem for 8 hours then I felt guilty.
It took some time but now I realize that it is not code lines per hour that they hire me for but for my knowledge and experience. It is my ability to estimate work and deliver project on time. Also in knowledge professions, you are always thinking of the work even if not actively doung it.
It took some time but now I realize that it is not code lines per hour that they hire me for but for my knowledge and experience. It is my ability to estimate work and deliver project on time. Also in knowledge professions, you are always thinking of the work even if not actively doung it.
Do you code 8 hours a day, every day? I pretty much zone out for more than half the day multitask thinking how I'd architect something, but also not really "working"...
Apologies if it came out sounding judgemental. This is something I’m trying to figure out for myself.
Wfh has dispensed away with a huge amount of office based busy work and bs socializing so I’m finding myself productive enough in less than 8 hours as well.
Wfh has dispensed away with a huge amount of office based busy work and bs socializing so I’m finding myself productive enough in less than 8 hours as well.
This is probably unhealthy to mix and not have a degree of separation (I'm a kid still and don't have many responsibilities), but personally I've been getting a lot more out of my work day by being free to do things, run errands, grab a healthier lunch for pickup around the times when I don't have meetings scheduled (my team is aware of this)
I am really not a morning person, but being able to split a 2 hour commute + 8 hour work day into just casually checking in even at 3 am, when you have an aha moment go code, I honestly feel like the company is extracting more value out of me this way and getting more even though I'm putting in less than half the "butts in seats" hours.
I pop in 10-15 minute blocks completing a quest in Path of Exile during a particularly boring meeting that was called for no reason and was already answered in documentation, while answering questions, I'm sure this would look terrible if I was physically doing this in the open plan office - but the work is getting done, effectively, any problems are being resolved in the same time or faster. My team is also pretty OK with this probably because I'm always happy to deal with on call incidents in the middle of the night so the people with kids don't have to - I'm online anyway...
I am really not a morning person, but being able to split a 2 hour commute + 8 hour work day into just casually checking in even at 3 am, when you have an aha moment go code, I honestly feel like the company is extracting more value out of me this way and getting more even though I'm putting in less than half the "butts in seats" hours.
I pop in 10-15 minute blocks completing a quest in Path of Exile during a particularly boring meeting that was called for no reason and was already answered in documentation, while answering questions, I'm sure this would look terrible if I was physically doing this in the open plan office - but the work is getting done, effectively, any problems are being resolved in the same time or faster. My team is also pretty OK with this probably because I'm always happy to deal with on call incidents in the middle of the night so the people with kids don't have to - I'm online anyway...
I have a bit of trouble elucidate my discomfort with a similar arrangement. I explicitly signed up for 8 hours a day or so of "work". When I'm "productive" (how do you accurately meausre this) in 3 or 4 and then do other things; well that sounds like a "silent contract". There's no transparency there. If I was in the office tooling around or socializing, at least there's an implicit understanding that this is "ok". Maybe I'm being too naive.
I feel like it's to each their own, but I was never one for socialising or tooling around (I have Aspergers too), I am definitely more productive since full remote and asynchronous communication became the norm, my code quality is equal or better, and my time it takes to complete a story has dropped heavily.
I'm entirely confident that work is extracting more value from me for the same wage - and thus I don't feel bad about it.
It's also nice to not have multiple-hour commute in a completely packed metal tube with standing room only.
What they paid hasn't changed, but they get more value out of me than before (removing the constant interruptions, people always behind me, loud typing, the only thing for lunch being 8 different kale salad bars for $25 each with lines out the door, hours of commute wasted).
I mentally "stay later" because I don't need to leave early to catch the train right before peak hours that isn't so packed there is no room to board.
I'm entirely confident that work is extracting more value from me for the same wage - and thus I don't feel bad about it.
It's also nice to not have multiple-hour commute in a completely packed metal tube with standing room only.
What they paid hasn't changed, but they get more value out of me than before (removing the constant interruptions, people always behind me, loud typing, the only thing for lunch being 8 different kale salad bars for $25 each with lines out the door, hours of commute wasted).
I mentally "stay later" because I don't need to leave early to catch the train right before peak hours that isn't so packed there is no room to board.
What do you do in Defi? Just lend on your money for high returns or invest in the ccoins?
Lending BTC and swapping between ETH and SUSHI etc. Was lucky with some pre-sales rounds but most gains came from BTC. Sold all my stocks and went all in BTC in April. Paid off rather well.
Damn awesome. What % allocation of net worth did you go into BTC?
I bought in at the low in March, but was playing with it and didn't just let it ride and hodl. Still got a solid amount of the rise.
I bought in at the low in March, but was playing with it and didn't just let it ride and hodl. Still got a solid amount of the rise.
100% ;) Still have 99% in crypto. Watch realvision.com instead of reading Twitter or other stuff.
I plan to take 50% out by December, but honestly can't think of anything more valuable than BTC or ETH at the moment. Maybe India ETF.
I plan to take 50% out by December, but honestly can't think of anything more valuable than BTC or ETH at the moment. Maybe India ETF.
I'm a build/release engineer for a large manufacturing company.
It doesn't pay as well as working for FAANG, and I'm not going to get stock options that will make me rich. I live in a medium cost of living area. I make enough so that I can own a house, 2 cars (both paid off), and have a nice retirement account.
For the most part it is pretty low key. If the build breaks close to a deadline, there is some pressure to get it fixed, but that doesn't happen often. Most of the time it is just working on my projects that have realistic deadlines.
Every once in a while I get a little bored, but then I remember those past jobs where everyone's hair is on fire. The thing I like is that I get to work at my own pace, and spend most of the day writing scripts. I enjoy writing scripts more than I do application programming. I consider my scripts to be my minions that I send off to do my bidding.
It doesn't pay as well as working for FAANG, and I'm not going to get stock options that will make me rich. I live in a medium cost of living area. I make enough so that I can own a house, 2 cars (both paid off), and have a nice retirement account.
For the most part it is pretty low key. If the build breaks close to a deadline, there is some pressure to get it fixed, but that doesn't happen often. Most of the time it is just working on my projects that have realistic deadlines.
Every once in a while I get a little bored, but then I remember those past jobs where everyone's hair is on fire. The thing I like is that I get to work at my own pace, and spend most of the day writing scripts. I enjoy writing scripts more than I do application programming. I consider my scripts to be my minions that I send off to do my bidding.
Somewhere around 2005, most of my job as an Oracle DBA/developer for a pension company seemed to consist of writing small scripts to automate some process. Somewhat like little Unix daemons to do my bidding - hence the handle ”daemoncoder” :-)
I often joke that I'm just writing a small script to replace myself with.
Currently I do a lot of data wrangling and analysis, mostly in Python, so still plenty of small programs to automate the boring stuff.
I often joke that I'm just writing a small script to replace myself with.
Currently I do a lot of data wrangling and analysis, mostly in Python, so still plenty of small programs to automate the boring stuff.
That is a great way to frame scripts. I visualize them in the context of a journey data goes through.
A former colleague made ~$200k a year basically doing storage zoning for SANs at a big NYC bank.
He basically had about 2-3 hours of work a day, mostly early morning, and studied, ended up with a masters degree and a nice resume filler — he had a nice title with a big name during the process.
He really had strong storage chops, they just didn’t use his talents. There are a lot of operations jobs like that in finance and government.
He basically had about 2-3 hours of work a day, mostly early morning, and studied, ended up with a masters degree and a nice resume filler — he had a nice title with a big name during the process.
He really had strong storage chops, they just didn’t use his talents. There are a lot of operations jobs like that in finance and government.
Good storage people are hard to come by too.
HEY i can do luns!
can you do them high available, low latency, cross region redundancy, and restore both ways with near zero data loss?
well, sure, theres this button on the emc console I push and..
can you do them high available, low latency, cross region redundancy, and restore both ways with near zero data loss?
well, sure, theres this button on the emc console I push and..
SWE for a top tier investment bank. Pays good. Attend meeting all days, no harsh deadline, work from home, boss doesn't do micro management, got plenty of free time so I end up running 10km everyday during lunch hour.
How do you protect your knees from damage?
Wear shoes that fit and maintain a high enough cadence (steps / minute). If you watch your cadence, you automatically avoid taking long strides and thus landing heel first, which could damage your knees when running 10km / day.
How much? I’m 130k and 5 years exp.
For me, it was Google. You can make an obscene salary by any reasonable standard and not put in that much effort or stress, especially if you're smart.
I'm not in a phase of my life where that's what I want, so I'm currently at an intense research-focused co, but I half-joke about going back to Google to retire in a few years (esp once I have a family).
I'm not in a phase of my life where that's what I want, so I'm currently at an intense research-focused co, but I half-joke about going back to Google to retire in a few years (esp once I have a family).
Senior Software Engineer and Team Lead for a Analytics Contractor. Pretty highly paid.
I put together teams around projects, mentor juniors, and build cross project teams to fix architectural problems. My favorite part is actually teaching juniors and watching them grow. I live for that!
My advice is to find a niche that you love and stay away from industries that stress you out. There are a ton of different sub industries in SWE.
I would definitely stay clear of startups if you don’t handle stress well: startups and failing companies are the worst and for the same reason – they are both in a financial free fall trying to gain a new lease on life.
I put together teams around projects, mentor juniors, and build cross project teams to fix architectural problems. My favorite part is actually teaching juniors and watching them grow. I live for that!
My advice is to find a niche that you love and stay away from industries that stress you out. There are a ton of different sub industries in SWE.
I would definitely stay clear of startups if you don’t handle stress well: startups and failing companies are the worst and for the same reason – they are both in a financial free fall trying to gain a new lease on life.
It depends on what stresses you out. I have a lot of savings (so not hugely stressed about income stability, relative to other factors) and my chief sources of stress at work include feeling lost in an enigmatic codebase and feeling like I don't have the power to make things better, so working at smaller companies or even startups tends to be less stressful for me.
Feeling lost in an enigmatic codebase. God, I hate that feeling.
My very first day as a software engineer, my boss had me pull down a massive code base, showed me the backlog, and told me to get to work. No training, no mentor. Years later, and I still only have a faint idea what that goddamn program did. Stuff of nightmares.
My very first day as a software engineer, my boss had me pull down a massive code base, showed me the backlog, and told me to get to work. No training, no mentor. Years later, and I still only have a faint idea what that goddamn program did. Stuff of nightmares.
Ha that was my job for many years. Training and mentoring is not something you I've experienced in the software industry.
I think stress is much more about how you perceive it than anything else ? I’ve seen people sweating over deadlines on product deliveries ... nobody cares if you miss it, no lives are lost .. but some people go absolutely insane. 99.9% of the jobs aren’t critical for society to function and if you miss a deadline, no one will die.
That is partly true, I am reorganizing my life, and I think the levels of stress are related with your dependencies. If you can't live a month without paycheck > can't get fired > stress. If you can't switch industries caus you can't take the pay cut > stress. When you don't have a lot of liabilities, and you feel like you can walk away any time, that helps with feeling stressed.
Imo if you are a stressed out swe, you should be working on software to automate/simplify stressful thing. And if people get in the way of that, then change employers.
Software is not supposed to be super stressful — the machines should do the heavy lifting
I’m sure there are a zillion exceptions to this that ppl will point out
Software is not supposed to be super stressful — the machines should do the heavy lifting
I’m sure there are a zillion exceptions to this that ppl will point out
I would hazard that almost all stress that white collar workers deal with is not the result of having to perform repetitive manual task, but having to deal with the politics or performance demands in their workplace.
Their boss demands unrealistic timelines, actively undermines them, their coworkers are difficult to deal with, etc. I've never met anybody that works as an SWE that is stressed out because they have to fix bugs or manually migrate DBs all the time, its nearly always the environment that is the root cause.
Their boss demands unrealistic timelines, actively undermines them, their coworkers are difficult to deal with, etc. I've never met anybody that works as an SWE that is stressed out because they have to fix bugs or manually migrate DBs all the time, its nearly always the environment that is the root cause.
unrealistic deadlines and clients who think "playing rough" gets them more bang for their buck (it doesn't)
Engineers build things to make life easy. Business people rewrite the rules so that engineers have to constantly build. Order and chaos - primordial forces.
> I’m sure there are a zillion exceptions to this that ppl will point out
It's not really "exceptions" that will be pointed out. The reality is that someone if going to have to stop automating\simplifying and actually fix the bug or implement the feature. Or in the worst case debug the "brilliant" automation from the really chill guy that left the company last year :)
It's not really "exceptions" that will be pointed out. The reality is that someone if going to have to stop automating\simplifying and actually fix the bug or implement the feature. Or in the worst case debug the "brilliant" automation from the really chill guy that left the company last year :)
How much experience do you have?
CTO at a non-tech company (~75 people) that's trying to become more technical. On my own for a year, just made my first hire. I choose what I do and set my own deadlines, no-one else in the company has any idea about the stuff I work on (besides for seeing the results.)
>CTO at a non-tech company (~75 people) that's trying to become more technical.
Can you elaborate? What does this company do? Why did they view themselves as non-tech? What was the impetus behind the decision to become more technical? What are their goals in doing so? What would winning look for them? How do you plan this transition? What have been the problems you faced doing that? What's your experience hiring technical people for this 'non-tech' company; are they excited because everything is to be done or do they eschew it because they'd rather work for a tech's tech company?
Can you elaborate? What does this company do? Why did they view themselves as non-tech? What was the impetus behind the decision to become more technical? What are their goals in doing so? What would winning look for them? How do you plan this transition? What have been the problems you faced doing that? What's your experience hiring technical people for this 'non-tech' company; are they excited because everything is to be done or do they eschew it because they'd rather work for a tech's tech company?
Sure. They do accounting and administration for alternative investment funds. Until I arrived, this was mostly managed through Excel files and emails, with a couple of vendor apps for the heavy lifting. They realized that tech could help them work faster, more efficiently, with less mistakes and with less things falling between the cracks.
My philosophy has been not to fight head-on, to "embrace the Excel" and to build systems around it that provide the outcomes they need. Microsoft Power Automate has been a big part of it, at least at first, getting them used to the idea of automation while staying in their Outlook inboxes. From there I have a basis to build up into proper apps (which is why I have started hiring.)
I was lucky enough to start with a large amount of buy-in from senior management, and after a few months I had the goodwill and appreciation of the foot-soldiers as well, by dint of having made their lives easier. (I set myself a principle to never make any single worker's life harder in the service of the greater good.)
Hiring has been positive, people do like the idea of starting from a clean slate and having the freedom to do it their way. The fact that we set our own deadlines also means we have the time to do it the way we know we should.
My philosophy has been not to fight head-on, to "embrace the Excel" and to build systems around it that provide the outcomes they need. Microsoft Power Automate has been a big part of it, at least at first, getting them used to the idea of automation while staying in their Outlook inboxes. From there I have a basis to build up into proper apps (which is why I have started hiring.)
I was lucky enough to start with a large amount of buy-in from senior management, and after a few months I had the goodwill and appreciation of the foot-soldiers as well, by dint of having made their lives easier. (I set myself a principle to never make any single worker's life harder in the service of the greater good.)
Hiring has been positive, people do like the idea of starting from a clean slate and having the freedom to do it their way. The fact that we set our own deadlines also means we have the time to do it the way we know we should.
Thank you for taking the time. I wish you all the best.
I've managed to have low stress roles as a SWE and be highly compensated, so I don't think you need to switch industries, however it is very company specific, and at least in my experience and perspective, requires settling for a little bit lower on the ladder
Agreed with the settling lower down on the ladder. I’ve been all the way up (CTO) and found it be too stressful. I prefer to stay in engineering and not moving back into management.
If you live in a small town your cost of living is much lower. If you don’t spend money, you don’t need to make as much. I’m a consultant that integrates hardware and software that started with mobile and BLE IIOT and now perform maintenance on about a dozen mobile apps. A new push has been on node IIOT apps that run in docker containers. This has been challenging and a ton of fun. I also develop an independent app that designs and prints labels - https://label.live which is a React app via Electron.
Can relate. I am in cyber security and typically everything is on fire almost all the time. Haven’t had a proper vacation in aeons. A job in internal compliance is considered low stress in our field since it is mostly focused on creating risk plans and ensuring things are enforced by Ops, you are typically the driving force behind it. The pay is nicer as well.
edit : added more details
edit : added more details
Compliance makes more than security?
Compliance at higher level, yes. Better than any ops guy at the same level. Atleast in India. Since I have been on the both sides, can comfortably say that it is the case.
I used to be a happy developer, working on my tickets and that was it. until I was asked to act as a tech lead and a sort of PO (I still dont know what i am) Now, I need to plan what needs to be done, manage the tickets for the team, be the scrum master and all that. My life is much more stressful and I still make the same $ amount. But funnily, I like it
May be you should rethink about being tech lead. Even if they pay you more which would be about at max 20% of individual developer tech lead is not worth it. It limits your future prospects as a developer. As an IC you have far more opportunists and can switch jobs anywhere from 30 to 50% hike. But with the tech lead position switching jobs is not easy. But the most important problem is time. You spend so much time in managing which you could invest in honing your skills or updating your skills. In my experience being IC gives lots of freedom and the time invested is always useful in honing the tech skills.
While it's great that you are enjoying it, I can't help but feel that an increase in responsability should come with a small pay bump.
same on tech lead front. unfortunately it makes my imposter syndrome worse because im never the most knowledgeable dev on the low level details.
Yeah I have found that experience too. You will get questions directed to you expecting expertise but some non-lead developer will actually be the expert. It's a funny one because there is nothing wrong with that situation but the 'tech lead' moniker contributes to the stress.
agreed 100%
I’m in an analogous position. Added responsibility can give a lot of drive and meaning which can outweigh a bit of associated stress.
Im a software dev at a big non profit, pretty chill, learning a lot, low stress, mix of old and new tech, freedom to ask for more or less work/what type of projects i want to work on, deployments are biweekly at normal times (not like at a bank i was at previously where they were like 10pm-3am because of India time zone lol)
i realistically have about 2-3 years relevant experience, making around 100k. im aware if i study/prepare i could prob get an offer from a FAANG for >150k which i prob will do in a few months tho for the prestige/brand.
my manager has a lot more on his plate, but said in the last three years theres only been one day when hes had to work after 5pm due to a software emergency, so staying at current company is pretty appealing, but id like a pay raise when i hit my year mark so that will effect things.
Oue team of 5 devs is usually working 930-6 on a daily basis though, i usually work 9-5 tho.
i realistically have about 2-3 years relevant experience, making around 100k. im aware if i study/prepare i could prob get an offer from a FAANG for >150k which i prob will do in a few months tho for the prestige/brand.
my manager has a lot more on his plate, but said in the last three years theres only been one day when hes had to work after 5pm due to a software emergency, so staying at current company is pretty appealing, but id like a pay raise when i hit my year mark so that will effect things.
Oue team of 5 devs is usually working 930-6 on a daily basis though, i usually work 9-5 tho.
Visual Effects Artist.
I make pixels for movies and TV. It's awesome. Basically tweaking geometry and physics and colour to makes stuff look like the client wants it to look like.
I love the familiarity with the tools in my speciality. Been doing it for 20 years. Graduated from University with a bachelors in it.
There is stress available for the hungry. I've happily weaseled my way into a tiny boutique (30 people) studio with experienced and lovely owners that prioritize the crew (80% senior artists). Basically no OT, 100K$+ year, excellent health coverage (not in the USA), healthy relaxed and skilful coworkers. Dunno what could be better. And no, I have no entrepreneurial drive, happy to work for someone else.
I make pixels for movies and TV. It's awesome. Basically tweaking geometry and physics and colour to makes stuff look like the client wants it to look like.
I love the familiarity with the tools in my speciality. Been doing it for 20 years. Graduated from University with a bachelors in it.
There is stress available for the hungry. I've happily weaseled my way into a tiny boutique (30 people) studio with experienced and lovely owners that prioritize the crew (80% senior artists). Basically no OT, 100K$+ year, excellent health coverage (not in the USA), healthy relaxed and skilful coworkers. Dunno what could be better. And no, I have no entrepreneurial drive, happy to work for someone else.
On the opposite end of the spectrum here.
Make $30k a year living in NYC teaching software engineering and data science (mostly python) for a non profit.
It's less than minimum wage if hours are counted, lot of stress dealing with students and their issues (especially during a pandemic) and I'm also on the hook for the curriculum which means my weekends are filled trying to figure out how to write lessons about math that people with no educational background can understand.
I barely sleep and after bills I have zero money. But it beats being unemployed during a pandemic especially since I work remotely. Before this, I spent months sending resumes and got zero interviews.
Make $30k a year living in NYC teaching software engineering and data science (mostly python) for a non profit.
It's less than minimum wage if hours are counted, lot of stress dealing with students and their issues (especially during a pandemic) and I'm also on the hook for the curriculum which means my weekends are filled trying to figure out how to write lessons about math that people with no educational background can understand.
I barely sleep and after bills I have zero money. But it beats being unemployed during a pandemic especially since I work remotely. Before this, I spent months sending resumes and got zero interviews.
I get to write code, coach customers, help drive products and influence how big companies use Kubernetes as a solutions architect. Love my job, and I’m paid really well for it. It’s not low stress all of the time but it’s chill compared to the ops jobs I had back in the day.
It may be more dependent on your company than your actual job role. I've been software engineer for a decade and a half and have had stressful jobs/teams and have been a cofounder which was also stressful in a different way than being an engineer on a team. Right now I'm an engineer in what you might call a typical SV (growing) startup, in an industry I like, and although the work days are busy, I never work overtime and don't have any stress.
> I want to understand if there exists a well paid, comfortable position in this stress-saturated industry.
Try freelance/consulting. Set your own holiday time, set your own hours, target the projects and tech that interest you, and don't agree to do on-call. Not always easy to get started and it's not for everyone but it's like a whole other world salaried people don't know about because it's outside their norm.
Try freelance/consulting. Set your own holiday time, set your own hours, target the projects and tech that interest you, and don't agree to do on-call. Not always easy to get started and it's not for everyone but it's like a whole other world salaried people don't know about because it's outside their norm.
SDE in a very non mission-critical org at Microsoft. Best work/life balance ever. As a bonus, my coworkers and managers weren't stressed either, and so were pleasant to work with. My friends in Windows couldn't understand how I could leave at 4 to go snowboarding. They were probably more than a little contemptuous about it, but I was getting roughly the same comp, so...
I am a software engineer at failing fortune 500 tech giant. Managers like to create artificial deadlines but other than that there is no real stress. If service goes down and I am not near computer, no big deal, we don't have a lot of customers. But in my case I am also kind of checked out at work, so dgaf.
There are medium-low stress jobs at FAANG. Well, maybe not Amazon.
I was a sysadmin for many years and now teach at a local technical college (on a consultanty contract).
No good job is without some stress however I now work 9-5, no weekends, which is great.
No good job is without some stress however I now work 9-5, no weekends, which is great.
The answer will certainly depend on "get paid well" level. What's your current pre-tax salary, and how much are you willing to go down or want to go up for this transition to be worth it?
I have been at (or have VERY closely worked with folks at) all levels of skill, responsibilities, and salaries. Let's assume you want to stay in scrum/SE role. I am of the opinion that within SWE, you can find your fit as long as soon as you define which two out of three of these qualities you want, and which one you can give up: (1) High salary. (My metric is: get paid at least 50% more than a similar job in another acceptible part of your country.) (2) Super interesting. (It wakes you up in the middle of the night from a dream, because you found the solution you were looking for for a long time. You rather give up sleep than forget the solution.) (3) Stress-free. (Well, every job has its own acceptable levels of stress. Here I'm talking about level of stress that makes you want to consider finding less stressful job. If you are not especially lazy person, and find yourself wanting to switch jobs to reduce stress at least once a month, that's high stress.)
I have have some experience (first hand or second hand) with roles that match the combos: (1)+(2)-(3): Start-up with goals to be bought out by FAANG within a few years, or go IPO in less than a decade of founding.
(1)+(3)-(2): Any team that has self-sustaining profit in a large tech company, or any large non-tech company that wants to seem attract tech talent without changing their non-Silicon Valley type culture.
(2)+(3)-(1): Any startup that is not VC funded, and definitely isn't on IPO track.
There are LOTS of exceptions to above, and there are rare occassions to find all three.. but if you want predictable long-term behavior, I'd say pick two-out-of-three on those, and that'll cast your widest nest. Finally, as soon as you frame your question with which of those two you want and which one you are willing to give up, you'd get a concrete company and role recommendations.
Cheers!
PS: I'm in a (1)+(3)-(2) in a non-FAANG tech company. My (1) is "relative" though, because I'm paid less than the company's average, but I also get to be fully remote in a non-expensive part of the US, so relatively speaking it's more than their average. I work on one of the most mundane parts of MarTech/AdTech (hence the "-(2)" status). I get sufficient autonomy, but I also have to show that I'm bringing the value to the company. It's not stress-free, but definitely manageable. I haven't had to work weekends in a long time.
I have been at (or have VERY closely worked with folks at) all levels of skill, responsibilities, and salaries. Let's assume you want to stay in scrum/SE role. I am of the opinion that within SWE, you can find your fit as long as soon as you define which two out of three of these qualities you want, and which one you can give up: (1) High salary. (My metric is: get paid at least 50% more than a similar job in another acceptible part of your country.) (2) Super interesting. (It wakes you up in the middle of the night from a dream, because you found the solution you were looking for for a long time. You rather give up sleep than forget the solution.) (3) Stress-free. (Well, every job has its own acceptable levels of stress. Here I'm talking about level of stress that makes you want to consider finding less stressful job. If you are not especially lazy person, and find yourself wanting to switch jobs to reduce stress at least once a month, that's high stress.)
I have have some experience (first hand or second hand) with roles that match the combos: (1)+(2)-(3): Start-up with goals to be bought out by FAANG within a few years, or go IPO in less than a decade of founding.
(1)+(3)-(2): Any team that has self-sustaining profit in a large tech company, or any large non-tech company that wants to seem attract tech talent without changing their non-Silicon Valley type culture.
(2)+(3)-(1): Any startup that is not VC funded, and definitely isn't on IPO track.
There are LOTS of exceptions to above, and there are rare occassions to find all three.. but if you want predictable long-term behavior, I'd say pick two-out-of-three on those, and that'll cast your widest nest. Finally, as soon as you frame your question with which of those two you want and which one you are willing to give up, you'd get a concrete company and role recommendations.
Cheers!
PS: I'm in a (1)+(3)-(2) in a non-FAANG tech company. My (1) is "relative" though, because I'm paid less than the company's average, but I also get to be fully remote in a non-expensive part of the US, so relatively speaking it's more than their average. I work on one of the most mundane parts of MarTech/AdTech (hence the "-(2)" status). I get sufficient autonomy, but I also have to show that I'm bringing the value to the company. It's not stress-free, but definitely manageable. I haven't had to work weekends in a long time.
> What is your low stress, high paid job?
Imaginary.
Well, actually, software developer, not so high paid, but also not high stress, so it works out anyhow.
Imaginary.
Well, actually, software developer, not so high paid, but also not high stress, so it works out anyhow.
I recommend just changing team or company.
Stress is usually fault of the boss, not the industry.
I co-found companies and recruit/coach/develop CEOs to run them.
This first happened with a huge ($1bn turnover, 500+ people) online travel co i started when I realized that my COO loved solving everyday problems while I loved sitting and thinking and not being stressed out. So he ended up running all ops and then became CEO, and I am a large passive shareholder.
Over the last several years I co-created many other companies – all either venture backed or about to be – from biotech to SaaS to mobile apps to fintech. In all these places there is a team I trust to run them already in place, or being created.
The reason other people want to do this with me is that (a) people like being CEOs and having responsibility (b) i have certain superpowers, especially around identifying opportunities, crafting stories, pulling together talent and capital, coaching people, and – thanks to plenty of MDMA/LSD use – quickly build deep relationships with a lot of trust (c) most people find it quite difficult to take the first step when nothing at all exists, and I find it very easy and exciting because I instantly imagine how things could work (d) I have been a VC-backed founder for a decade and have gone through a lot of stresses of firing people, dealing with complicated situations, motivating teams at times of hardship etc. (e) i am completely unwilling to do things i do not like doing and as soon as these arise i start looking for someone to delegate them to
I love this because I love creating things, building relationships, empowering other people. It feels extremely high-impact, and creates both very significant financial assets and ability to decide my own cash income. More importantly, it constantly builds more relationships and skills and knowledge of how to continue doing this. The flywheel spins up.
The work is quite intense and i rarely take holidays but i can do so whenever i want to, because i am constantly delegating and am rarely in the position when something cannot function without me. i don't take holidays because i don't enjoy them that much. i relax by spending time with interesting people, and that also happens to be a core part of my job since it builds relationships and ideas for the future.
Now. i get that this is not a standard "job" by any measure. however, it is a job i have created for myself because i understand myself well. and i think the answer to loving what you do (thus not being stressed) and getting paid a lot is to build your own job. to refuse to be constrained by existing ways of doing things, and to just not be afraid of doing things differently. there are many people out there doing this across many domains and in very different ways.
at core the reason i am able to do this is a lot of meditation, psychotherapy, psychedelics, coaching, and a lot of close friends i love. you have to deeply understand what you want, not compromise despite difficulties along the way, and build support systems for yourself. stress management is a skill.
good luck figuring this out, this is a very cool and interesting question to consider!
This first happened with a huge ($1bn turnover, 500+ people) online travel co i started when I realized that my COO loved solving everyday problems while I loved sitting and thinking and not being stressed out. So he ended up running all ops and then became CEO, and I am a large passive shareholder.
Over the last several years I co-created many other companies – all either venture backed or about to be – from biotech to SaaS to mobile apps to fintech. In all these places there is a team I trust to run them already in place, or being created.
The reason other people want to do this with me is that (a) people like being CEOs and having responsibility (b) i have certain superpowers, especially around identifying opportunities, crafting stories, pulling together talent and capital, coaching people, and – thanks to plenty of MDMA/LSD use – quickly build deep relationships with a lot of trust (c) most people find it quite difficult to take the first step when nothing at all exists, and I find it very easy and exciting because I instantly imagine how things could work (d) I have been a VC-backed founder for a decade and have gone through a lot of stresses of firing people, dealing with complicated situations, motivating teams at times of hardship etc. (e) i am completely unwilling to do things i do not like doing and as soon as these arise i start looking for someone to delegate them to
I love this because I love creating things, building relationships, empowering other people. It feels extremely high-impact, and creates both very significant financial assets and ability to decide my own cash income. More importantly, it constantly builds more relationships and skills and knowledge of how to continue doing this. The flywheel spins up.
The work is quite intense and i rarely take holidays but i can do so whenever i want to, because i am constantly delegating and am rarely in the position when something cannot function without me. i don't take holidays because i don't enjoy them that much. i relax by spending time with interesting people, and that also happens to be a core part of my job since it builds relationships and ideas for the future.
Now. i get that this is not a standard "job" by any measure. however, it is a job i have created for myself because i understand myself well. and i think the answer to loving what you do (thus not being stressed) and getting paid a lot is to build your own job. to refuse to be constrained by existing ways of doing things, and to just not be afraid of doing things differently. there are many people out there doing this across many domains and in very different ways.
at core the reason i am able to do this is a lot of meditation, psychotherapy, psychedelics, coaching, and a lot of close friends i love. you have to deeply understand what you want, not compromise despite difficulties along the way, and build support systems for yourself. stress management is a skill.
good luck figuring this out, this is a very cool and interesting question to consider!
software engineer. i have great management. very low stress. um. i have millions in tesla stock so maybe it does help having that 'fuck you' money???
not high paid at all, but delivery jobs are very low stress, at least for uber eats, doordash. I suspect fedex or ups are more stressful as those are always going 45 in a 25.
Not in the US, but in Europe, delivery by car was fairly stressful (did that for a few months). Constantly risking getting a parking ticket wiping out days' worth of income.
Doing it on a bike though is indeed quite nice.
Doing it on a bike though is indeed quite nice.
Disclaimer: I am currently a scrum master/software engineer in a team that has a lot of pressure. I haven't had a 'relaxing' holiday without worries in over 12 months and so I'm considering a change. I want to understand if there exists a well paid, comfortable position in this stress-saturated industry.