Ask HN: How can I stay gainfully employed when I just want to “coast” as a SWE?
75 comments
I've been noticing this too. Everyone wants to hire an ambitious go-getter who aspires to become Top Hotdog Ultra Tech Lead or CEO someday. I just want to make the websites go until I retire. I'm not looking to become a millionaire or retire early. I look over at my friends who became Mechanical Engineers. They have better lives. They have time for their families. They generally work 9-5 like Mad Men. I wonder what went wrong in our industry where that isn't possible.
I think the solution is to give in and become the monster. Become hyper-ambitious like everyone else and try to become CTO of a midsize startup by the time you're 40 or whatever. Or "drop out" and retrain as a mechanical engineer.
I think the solution is to give in and become the monster. Become hyper-ambitious like everyone else and try to become CTO of a midsize startup by the time you're 40 or whatever. Or "drop out" and retrain as a mechanical engineer.
I made the decision early on in my 20s to bust ass and drive hard, and then retire when I’m 40. Then I would have all the time in the world to coast and do what I want. Trouble is, I’m over 40 now and still busting ass just to keep head above water. There is something about software that makes it so workaholism and burnout is the median, normal track.
What are you trying to accomplish right now, other than to keep your head above water? Why do you think your tenure of roughly 20 years hasn't been good enough to carry you into a better point in your career?
I think a lot had to do with moving to the Bay Area for job security. After being unemployed after both major tech recessions, I wanted to move somewhere a little less risky. Moving to Bay Area is kind of a Faustian Bargain [1]. You gain better job security and access to companies that you absolutely wouldn't have in FlyoverTown, USA. But you also gain extremely crushing cost of living (eliminating financial benefits of higher salaries) and a workaholic-as-normal culture.
Another thing I realized was that I was simply wrong. Busting ass isn't what lets you become financially independent by your 40s. The peers I know who retired early, largely were lucky in the startup lottery. Some busted ass, most simply lucked into the right company.
1: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Faustian_bargain
Another thing I realized was that I was simply wrong. Busting ass isn't what lets you become financially independent by your 40s. The peers I know who retired early, largely were lucky in the startup lottery. Some busted ass, most simply lucked into the right company.
1: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Faustian_bargain
Also probably depends on the vision of your retirement. If you want to retire with high five-figure (or God forbid, six figure) yearly spending, then it's not that easy. If, on the other hand, you're ok with living like a median American, you don't need that much money. I'm just about to retire in Poland at 40 by this logic, and I didn't even work all the years between college and now! (took a total of around 4-5 years in between-jobs breaks).
> I've been noticing this too. Everyone wants to hire an ambitious go-getter who aspires to become Top Hotdog Ultra Tech Lead or CEO someday.
Everybody wants to hire that one person that's crazy about software engineering and will transfer the way team works and tremendously improve product's architecture. While I've worked with such people, they're rare, so most companies settle for people who can just competently deliver without being a crazy trailblazer. What is important is following the latest popular technology trends though - there's never enough people on the market who know these, so if you know them, you're good. Also probably leetcode/whiteboarding if you're in the US, but I can't speak much to that cause I'm in Europe and it's rarely practiced here.
Everybody wants to hire that one person that's crazy about software engineering and will transfer the way team works and tremendously improve product's architecture. While I've worked with such people, they're rare, so most companies settle for people who can just competently deliver without being a crazy trailblazer. What is important is following the latest popular technology trends though - there's never enough people on the market who know these, so if you know them, you're good. Also probably leetcode/whiteboarding if you're in the US, but I can't speak much to that cause I'm in Europe and it's rarely practiced here.
What is the general interview process in Europe?
In my experience, for seniors it's a conversation about past experience, deep dive on a selected project/technical problem of candidate's choosing, and sometimes some quizzing on the technologies the candidate claims to particularly experienced in, that are of interest for the company. For juniors, it's quite often coding something very simple (non-algorithmic, no gotchas) in an IDE to verify if the candidate really has experience with the stack they claim to have.
I've been interviewed in dozens of places and the only leetcoding/whiteboarding I've experienced was in American corps (Google, Palantir), in Sony games division (which from what I've heard is arguably an American company) and in one wannabe-cool startup in London that paid shit anyway. Nobody I know in Europe grinds algorithms in their free time...
I've been interviewed in dozens of places and the only leetcoding/whiteboarding I've experienced was in American corps (Google, Palantir), in Sony games division (which from what I've heard is arguably an American company) and in one wannabe-cool startup in London that paid shit anyway. Nobody I know in Europe grinds algorithms in their free time...
Depends on the company (and country). At least here in Stockholm (SE) take home coding assignments and/or whiteboard problem solving seems pretty common for both junior and senior positions.
Look at traditional firms, banks, public, utilities. IBM, GE, BofA, state/federal.
Skill in niche areas where everyone else is at retirement age (mainframe integration stacks/web). Everything else is chasing flavor-of-the-month and you’ll work 60 hours just to keep a resume current. Expect to have to lead a team or move into architecture at some point.
Traditional firms will blow smoke about innovation, tell them you want to work on an MS or MBA at nightschool or something attractive to an interviewer and then stall until you figure out the org and find a place to camp.
Skill in niche areas where everyone else is at retirement age (mainframe integration stacks/web). Everything else is chasing flavor-of-the-month and you’ll work 60 hours just to keep a resume current. Expect to have to lead a team or move into architecture at some point.
Traditional firms will blow smoke about innovation, tell them you want to work on an MS or MBA at nightschool or something attractive to an interviewer and then stall until you figure out the org and find a place to camp.
I come across some companies from the financial industry when I’m sending in online applications. Places like DRW, which by the way never replied back and I sent in my application two months ago. Same story with state jobs, I never hear back from them.
How does one usually get knowledge in niche and very old areas? I don’t know anyone personally that works in mainframes or systems. My professional knowledge is focused on vanilla JavaScript, PHP, MySQL and Ruby. Not too current, but also not old enough to be associated with retirement age devs.
It would be awesome if a firm would let me work on a MS on the side and have it paid for but that sounds like a unicorn scenario. In my experience most companies neglect training on the job.
(EDIT) I also applied to WITCH firms as I hear second hand they hire any warm bodies and train you to fill the gaps. It's also been quiet on that front, with the exception of Infosys who told me they won't be moving forward with my application for a full-stack developer.
How does one usually get knowledge in niche and very old areas? I don’t know anyone personally that works in mainframes or systems. My professional knowledge is focused on vanilla JavaScript, PHP, MySQL and Ruby. Not too current, but also not old enough to be associated with retirement age devs.
It would be awesome if a firm would let me work on a MS on the side and have it paid for but that sounds like a unicorn scenario. In my experience most companies neglect training on the job.
(EDIT) I also applied to WITCH firms as I hear second hand they hire any warm bodies and train you to fill the gaps. It's also been quiet on that front, with the exception of Infosys who told me they won't be moving forward with my application for a full-stack developer.
>Places like DRW, which by the way never replied back and I sent in my application two months ago.
DRW is a prop shop with a workload comparable to any FAANG. Most certainty not a place you would be able to coast.
DRW is a prop shop with a workload comparable to any FAANG. Most certainty not a place you would be able to coast.
Duly noted, I am just surrounded myself with so much fintech and prop shop business in my city that I've mixed it up with banking.
I interviewed with DRW in Chicago in 2017. I had an interesting experience. They started with a take home programming problem, which they said I could do in any language. The problem was to take a list of tetris moves and give the resulting playfield height. I coded it in ruby because I knew I could write it very quickly. I wrote it using OO style programming, included a full test suite, and added visualization of the board during play. I turned it in early. Their initial feedback was irritation that I had used Ruby. After a day I heard back that they liked my code and would be scheduling further interviews. After a few days they reached out and said that my code "didn't work at all and had mistakes" that had decided to pass.
I don't know why they changed their mind but I'm certain there was nothing wrong with the solution I submitted. I even had a friend check it for me. I suspect they just decided to move forward with a different applicant. Dunno but that was my experience with DRW.
I don't know why they changed their mind but I'm certain there was nothing wrong with the solution I submitted. I even had a friend check it for me. I suspect they just decided to move forward with a different applicant. Dunno but that was my experience with DRW.
In most cases I would be fine with Hacker Rank tests, but including a full test suite sounds too much for a coding assessment. Also I guess they don't have many Ruby experts at DRW so it took them longer to dissect your code. "Languages don't matter because a tool is just a tool" says the developer... until it's not. Oh well.
Despite my inclination to coast, when it comes to finding work, I've found out that I do better in "trial by fire" situations, than the traditional round-after-round of tests method of evaluating a candidate.
Taking a startup job I had, for example, I was contracted for 40 hrs/week work with just my resume and an informal interview at a coffee shop. No code tests- the founder just wanted to know me in person and I got the job in a week. The pay was low, but the pacing was pretty relaxed for a startup. I can't find many places that hire programmers that easily anymore and that's what makes this so tough.
Some people have trouble learning how to code. I have trouble learning how to interview better.
Despite my inclination to coast, when it comes to finding work, I've found out that I do better in "trial by fire" situations, than the traditional round-after-round of tests method of evaluating a candidate.
Taking a startup job I had, for example, I was contracted for 40 hrs/week work with just my resume and an informal interview at a coffee shop. No code tests- the founder just wanted to know me in person and I got the job in a week. The pay was low, but the pacing was pretty relaxed for a startup. I can't find many places that hire programmers that easily anymore and that's what makes this so tough.
Some people have trouble learning how to code. I have trouble learning how to interview better.
You can use any language you want, as long as it’s Go.
Depending on the state, state jobs usually are unionized gigs with a few entry points. The “happy path” is entry-level. You need to understand the benefits and how they work as it’s a major component of compensation. For example, if you worked for NYC or NYS government, your pension is largely exempt from state and city taxes... but that pension changed during the Great Recession and its value may vary depending on your circumstances.
If you’re mid-career, you need to figure out the “side loading” path. Usually there’s a way to get non-political temp/term appointments, and sometimes if you work as a contractor there can be ways to be converted to an employee.
If you’re mid-career, you need to figure out the “side loading” path. Usually there’s a way to get non-political temp/term appointments, and sometimes if you work as a contractor there can be ways to be converted to an employee.
Z has online education and partnerships with some schools.
https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education/master-the...
There is/will be a lot of old gov’t C/C++/java code out there that will have to be maintained forever. IRS, FAA, DoD, see who owns those support contracts.
https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education/master-the...
There is/will be a lot of old gov’t C/C++/java code out there that will have to be maintained forever. IRS, FAA, DoD, see who owns those support contracts.
At least in the Bay Area, there are plenty of jobs like this, even outside banks and such.
Many companies that's been around for 20 years have bazillion pieces of unexciting software they need to support and maintain. They still need full time employees to keep them running.
Want an example? Adobe Sign. Here is a product that they can never stop supporting. The software doesn't need more features, but they still need security updates and maintenance.
Just pick a big, old technology company and browse the job listings. Look for "old school tech", like Java EE. Just add it on your resume and say you worked with it a long time ago. Boom, an interview.
edit: Scripting languages like PHP or Ruby will also have lots of legacy software around them. But Java software being "enterprise-y", tend to die off less frequently, and people there seem treated better than legacy PHP programmers.
edit2: In a large company, there will be boring, maintenance areas, and exciting areas. Try to interview with boring teams, since that is your goal.
Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Adobe in any way. It's just an example I know outside of my own work. We have examples too, but that would be too revealing.
Many companies that's been around for 20 years have bazillion pieces of unexciting software they need to support and maintain. They still need full time employees to keep them running.
Want an example? Adobe Sign. Here is a product that they can never stop supporting. The software doesn't need more features, but they still need security updates and maintenance.
Just pick a big, old technology company and browse the job listings. Look for "old school tech", like Java EE. Just add it on your resume and say you worked with it a long time ago. Boom, an interview.
edit: Scripting languages like PHP or Ruby will also have lots of legacy software around them. But Java software being "enterprise-y", tend to die off less frequently, and people there seem treated better than legacy PHP programmers.
edit2: In a large company, there will be boring, maintenance areas, and exciting areas. Try to interview with boring teams, since that is your goal.
Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Adobe in any way. It's just an example I know outside of my own work. We have examples too, but that would be too revealing.
Hmmm, I kept reading your comment multiple times and could not put a finger on what bothered me.
> Want an example? Adobe Sign. Here is a product that they can never stop supporting. The software doesn't need more features, but they still need security updates and maintenance.
I do work at Adobe but not on Sign, and I think it just ruffled my feathers to see an offhand comment putting down some great work.
Please do check out https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/sign/features.html
You will be utterly surprised how many FAANG level salary companies use Java EE :)
Disclaimer: I do hate Java with a passion
> Want an example? Adobe Sign. Here is a product that they can never stop supporting. The software doesn't need more features, but they still need security updates and maintenance.
I do work at Adobe but not on Sign, and I think it just ruffled my feathers to see an offhand comment putting down some great work.
Please do check out https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/sign/features.html
You will be utterly surprised how many FAANG level salary companies use Java EE :)
Disclaimer: I do hate Java with a passion
> I think it just ruffled my feathers to see an offhand comment putting down some great work.
Adobe is a big place with many great products. No offense intended.
> You will be utterly surprised how many FAANG level salary companies use Java EE :)
I very much doubt the engineers working on Adobe Sign are making FAANG salaries. Maybe your team does. Adobe is a big place.
Adobe is a big place with many great products. No offense intended.
> You will be utterly surprised how many FAANG level salary companies use Java EE :)
I very much doubt the engineers working on Adobe Sign are making FAANG salaries. Maybe your team does. Adobe is a big place.
Not sure I am seeing the put down, what was negative about the comment?
Probably an overreaction on my part, but the comment made it seem like Adobe was a boring existence and not much happens.
Looking from the outside in, that’s definitely how it appears.
Perspective is important :)
Perspective is important :)
Which is why it's fine to challenge the comment. The commenter is implying a lot considering he doesn't have any inside knowledge of Adobe Sign.
And even if you look at public data--esignatures being relatively new, Covid moving more things to digital, DocuSign's share price up 5x since their 2018 IPO, Dropbox acquiring HelloSign for $230M, Adobe's own share price up 15x in the last 10 years--there's not much to indicate that Adobe Sign is a legacy app that could just survive in maintenance mode.
There's also a tendency for people to underestimate the size and complexity of applications because they only use a fraction of the features.
And even if you look at public data--esignatures being relatively new, Covid moving more things to digital, DocuSign's share price up 5x since their 2018 IPO, Dropbox acquiring HelloSign for $230M, Adobe's own share price up 15x in the last 10 years--there's not much to indicate that Adobe Sign is a legacy app that could just survive in maintenance mode.
There's also a tendency for people to underestimate the size and complexity of applications because they only use a fraction of the features.
Agreed. Perspective is important :+1 In hindsight, should not have commented and brushed it off :)
This is good advice. Postings with Java, Ruby, and PHP will almost certainly be a huge mess and will have lots of room for "coasting"
Become a software QA test automation guru. The technology change is slower, and the expectations and problems are more predictable. In the testing world, your skills will stand out more. You won't be expected to reinvent the world, just to keep things working reliably. You'll be compared to other folks who punch the clock. Don't get me wrong, I have a deep of love automation, and QA, but culturally, you will find proportionately more who treat coding as a job rather than a passion in that role, but you'll still get paid for your abilities.
Old-timer here (I started on COBOL). I like programming; and I like 9-5. I suck at management. I tried running my own business, but I sucked at that too. I'm not a bad programmer, but I'm certainly not elite.
You want 9-5, and you don't want a boss, so permatemping seems to be one of your few choices. I was never that keen on having a boss; but I liked getting a reliable salary.
I have learned and adopted several programming systems (languages, if you like) over the years. One by one they were abandoned by their manufacturer, and I had to learn something new. I reckon it takes at least 6 months to get good at a new language.
By the time I was about 50, I noticed a trend for novel frameworks and languages to pop up with increasing frequency - more than one every 6 months. I found this increasingly teedious. By age about 60, I was no longer motivated to learn these new tricks, because they weren't going to be any use to me for more than a couple of years.
So: I concur with other commenters about taking up a job as a maintenance programmer on a codebase written in something unfashionable. PHP has always been unfashionable, and there's loads of PHP that isn't going anywhere and needs maintaining. You have PHP skills; consider Drupal. Plugging modules together to make Drupal websites is not challenging; but if you learn Drupal internals, you can be better than most Drupal "developers", and get jobs maintaining Drupal systems. Unfortunately, it takes time to get that level of Drupal competence.
Your "blue-collar" attitude is out-of-sync with modern software development. Nowadays developers are expected to be able to sell, teach, invent, write clearly, all the while avoiding antagonising people, as well as develop software.
Perhaps you could find a partner, with similar levels of ambition to your own, but with talents that complement yours, and set up shop together as a web-design agency. You need a production pipeline that enables you to build sites quickly and reliably. Your partner needs to have sales skills (it doesn't sound as if you do).
You don't want a boss; so I guess getting a job as a paid hack in a small web-development outfit is out of the question. But not all bosses are awful. And in a small firm, you might find that your experience makes a big difference to them, and that you are valued.
You sound a bit depressed. If that's true, I'm sorry. Things will improve. Good times and bad times are both temporary.
You want 9-5, and you don't want a boss, so permatemping seems to be one of your few choices. I was never that keen on having a boss; but I liked getting a reliable salary.
I have learned and adopted several programming systems (languages, if you like) over the years. One by one they were abandoned by their manufacturer, and I had to learn something new. I reckon it takes at least 6 months to get good at a new language.
By the time I was about 50, I noticed a trend for novel frameworks and languages to pop up with increasing frequency - more than one every 6 months. I found this increasingly teedious. By age about 60, I was no longer motivated to learn these new tricks, because they weren't going to be any use to me for more than a couple of years.
So: I concur with other commenters about taking up a job as a maintenance programmer on a codebase written in something unfashionable. PHP has always been unfashionable, and there's loads of PHP that isn't going anywhere and needs maintaining. You have PHP skills; consider Drupal. Plugging modules together to make Drupal websites is not challenging; but if you learn Drupal internals, you can be better than most Drupal "developers", and get jobs maintaining Drupal systems. Unfortunately, it takes time to get that level of Drupal competence.
Your "blue-collar" attitude is out-of-sync with modern software development. Nowadays developers are expected to be able to sell, teach, invent, write clearly, all the while avoiding antagonising people, as well as develop software.
Perhaps you could find a partner, with similar levels of ambition to your own, but with talents that complement yours, and set up shop together as a web-design agency. You need a production pipeline that enables you to build sites quickly and reliably. Your partner needs to have sales skills (it doesn't sound as if you do).
You don't want a boss; so I guess getting a job as a paid hack in a small web-development outfit is out of the question. But not all bosses are awful. And in a small firm, you might find that your experience makes a big difference to them, and that you are valued.
You sound a bit depressed. If that's true, I'm sorry. Things will improve. Good times and bad times are both temporary.
I never stated I don't want a boss, because I actually DO want one. A boss denotes a full-time job which is what I want most. I am missing out on health insurance and retirement benefits big time. I miss the interaction with co-workers. It also gets lonely when you are the only US developer in the company and the others are offshore. I never had that experience of being in a room with other developers that are wiser than me and bouncing off ideas with them and I would like to have that experience.
When I was very much doing 90% PHP work in my agency days (WordPress, Magento, Joomla...) I got some offerings for Magento but I mostly did front-end work in Magento and found it to be an easily breakable and over-engineered piece of work.
I didn't use Drupal at work but I was more interested in it. The Drupal job listings I have found were weird: They all required previous Drupal experience. I need a job to get Drupal experience but I cannot get it because I don't have it. I don't doubt that it would be a lot more versatile than WP though.
Not interested in founding a business with a partner or continuing freelance because it's too much uncertainty and risk for my taste. Just need a 9-5 with more stability. Permatemping gives me the worst of both worlds. You have to pay more on taxes, get no benefits, and you get paid less than you would if you were contracted from an external agency.
I'm not much of a social person, and since 2014 I started working remotely 100% of the time. I guess that physical isolation from co-workers was affecting my interview performance somehow?
Because the main issue is those 9-5 full-time jobs have super hard interviews, including the ones that don't ask you algorithmic questions. It's like they're on a different planet with how they evaluate me.
When I was very much doing 90% PHP work in my agency days (WordPress, Magento, Joomla...) I got some offerings for Magento but I mostly did front-end work in Magento and found it to be an easily breakable and over-engineered piece of work.
I didn't use Drupal at work but I was more interested in it. The Drupal job listings I have found were weird: They all required previous Drupal experience. I need a job to get Drupal experience but I cannot get it because I don't have it. I don't doubt that it would be a lot more versatile than WP though.
Not interested in founding a business with a partner or continuing freelance because it's too much uncertainty and risk for my taste. Just need a 9-5 with more stability. Permatemping gives me the worst of both worlds. You have to pay more on taxes, get no benefits, and you get paid less than you would if you were contracted from an external agency.
I'm not much of a social person, and since 2014 I started working remotely 100% of the time. I guess that physical isolation from co-workers was affecting my interview performance somehow?
Because the main issue is those 9-5 full-time jobs have super hard interviews, including the ones that don't ask you algorithmic questions. It's like they're on a different planet with how they evaluate me.
The only employment I know of where you can "coast" - have a decent life without working too hard - are the skilled trades. They're in demand (not enough workers), but they don't really change. Think Plumbing, Electrical, etc.
If you go the hard labor route you will break your body eventually and need that retirement or pension. So plan ahead.
If you go the management route you're in good shape for employment and retirement (people don't really change), but you usually have to start by being good at whatever you're managing.
You have chosen a career with high rates of change and disruption, but you're hoping to avoid changing and being disrupted. This is not a winning solution. You may be able to survive for a few years in a lagging employer (large boring corporations, government agencies, certain non-technical family businesses). But eventually, the disruption will come for you too, and you'll find that your cushy job has disappeared and you've been replaced by a $10/mo SaaS.
You need to change something. You can upgrade your mindset to work in a high-churn industry or you can shift your skills and expectations to a low churn industry. But I guarantee it won't get any easier as you get older.
If you go the hard labor route you will break your body eventually and need that retirement or pension. So plan ahead.
If you go the management route you're in good shape for employment and retirement (people don't really change), but you usually have to start by being good at whatever you're managing.
You have chosen a career with high rates of change and disruption, but you're hoping to avoid changing and being disrupted. This is not a winning solution. You may be able to survive for a few years in a lagging employer (large boring corporations, government agencies, certain non-technical family businesses). But eventually, the disruption will come for you too, and you'll find that your cushy job has disappeared and you've been replaced by a $10/mo SaaS.
You need to change something. You can upgrade your mindset to work in a high-churn industry or you can shift your skills and expectations to a low churn industry. But I guarantee it won't get any easier as you get older.
One time I got an offer to be some small company's (it wasn't a tech company) tech guy that would maintain their PHP website and probably do tech support for employee's PCs. I was really hating my work back then, but if I had taken that offer it would've been a career dead-end, a relaxing job but nothing challenging or exiciting, and I would've probably been too lazy to move since I'm not very ambitious either.
Are you in the US? The Europe/UK work culture might suit you better.
Also a weird tip is change jobs every 2 to 3 years. Companies tend to get less cushy and more process oriented over time. Find the company that isn’t measuring time on tasks etc.
Also a weird tip is change jobs every 2 to 3 years. Companies tend to get less cushy and more process oriented over time. Find the company that isn’t measuring time on tasks etc.
> Also a weird tip is change jobs every 2 to 3 years. Companies tend to get less cushy and more process oriented over time.
Hell is an agile sprint system that has been optimised to require 10 hour days.
Hell is an agile sprint system that has been optimised to require 10 hour days.
What's your experience with EU jobs? I do get the idea that they are not really fanatic about chasing the latest tech at least in my view.
However, I do spend only 1-3 years with each job. Generally I work as a permatemp worker where promotions aren't expected of me. So I'm usually in a position where it's easy for the company to lay me off (as it has happened before).
However, I do spend only 1-3 years with each job. Generally I work as a permatemp worker where promotions aren't expected of me. So I'm usually in a position where it's easy for the company to lay me off (as it has happened before).
It'll depend on the company and country, but generally it is less hectic because of stricter work hour regulations, vacation, etc. They'll always be the workaholics of course.
It helps that the culture/mentality is different from the start, but if you work for FAANG-like places or start-ups, it probably not hugely better. Vice versa, I'm sure you could find a more laid-back workplace in the US, might just be a bit rarer. To be honest, I've seen some coasters in FAANG-type places, too. The bigger the place, the more opportunity there is to slip through the cracks, but it's a risk. On the opposite end, in a smaller place your expertise goes further, so you might be able to get away with putting in less effort day-to-day. Plus fewer meetings.
In any case, and as other commenters have mentioned, the easiest path is to pick "boring" technology that still super valuable to the business, with a long shelf-life, but not sexy. You become proficient in it, maybe you already, don't mind working with it, and you're set.
There's still the tricky part of making it future-proof, but a lot of technology sticks around longer than you'd expect.
It helps that the culture/mentality is different from the start, but if you work for FAANG-like places or start-ups, it probably not hugely better. Vice versa, I'm sure you could find a more laid-back workplace in the US, might just be a bit rarer. To be honest, I've seen some coasters in FAANG-type places, too. The bigger the place, the more opportunity there is to slip through the cracks, but it's a risk. On the opposite end, in a smaller place your expertise goes further, so you might be able to get away with putting in less effort day-to-day. Plus fewer meetings.
In any case, and as other commenters have mentioned, the easiest path is to pick "boring" technology that still super valuable to the business, with a long shelf-life, but not sexy. You become proficient in it, maybe you already, don't mind working with it, and you're set.
There's still the tricky part of making it future-proof, but a lot of technology sticks around longer than you'd expect.
> the easiest path is to pick "boring" technology that still super valuable to the business, with a long shelf-life, but not sexy.
Would PHP and Ruby still fit this? Not just the "boring" part but also the long shelf life? These have been my main standbys but a lot of things in the web are moving away from them. Should I jump back to things I haven't used in a long time? I don't know how much Magento has changed over the years but I get some recruiter emails about it, even 8 years after I last used it on the job.
Would PHP and Ruby still fit this? Not just the "boring" part but also the long shelf life? These have been my main standbys but a lot of things in the web are moving away from them. Should I jump back to things I haven't used in a long time? I don't know how much Magento has changed over the years but I get some recruiter emails about it, even 8 years after I last used it on the job.
Big caveat: I don't know much about your position or where you're located. Sometimes that matters; Cobol, Fortran, Ada, Perl, etc are still around but job opportunities vary. If I had to guess, places that use them are less likely to offer remote working soon. Also, nobody can predict the future. How longer shelf-life do you need? 10 years? 20 years? You might've moved to e.g. product or program management by then. I want an easy life, too, and don't plan on sticking to programming the whole time. I figure I'll know more in ~10-15 years. Anyway...
Ruby on Rails is still well and alive (see Ruby 3.0, and the recent mimemagic issue), overall I think PHP is more widely deployed (and alive, see the recent malicious commits to PHP. worth exploiting like that = people use it and update it). As brundolf said, Wordpress is everywhere.
You could go off the one you prefer more, but I'd definitely recommend reaching out to contacts and just casually surveying if they know what places use what to give you an idea of your local situation.
Ruby on Rails is still well and alive (see Ruby 3.0, and the recent mimemagic issue), overall I think PHP is more widely deployed (and alive, see the recent malicious commits to PHP. worth exploiting like that = people use it and update it). As brundolf said, Wordpress is everywhere.
You could go off the one you prefer more, but I'd definitely recommend reaching out to contacts and just casually surveying if they know what places use what to give you an idea of your local situation.
Here's one possibility: if you have PHP experience, maybe become a Wordpress expert. The legions of legacy Wordpress sites out there will outlive us all, and most of the rest of us don't want to touch them with a 10ft pole.
I think if top salary isn’t an issue, then these are fine technologies to find a legacy maintenance job, or even greenfield. I think they are fine platforms but fashions are what they are.
Yeah only UK experience but probably similar on the continent in the EU. In my experience as a .NET developer the latest tech isn’t chased which might be a good thing. I think reasonably modern tech is the easiest to work with. Too old and it gets hard and too modern you are playing catch up too much.
I've been trying to find a job in Germany.
It's either
- Event driven cloud master with k8s and docker knowledge - PHP developer, but Typo3, Magento or Wordpress - Tool user, actually not a real developer but a semi designer
Then there's the - Frontend developer master of virtually everything, studied, knows all the languages and is a designer as well - Backend developer Python, Java, less Ruby, much PHP with Symfony and/or Zend
All of those make me blergh
Oh and they pay 3-4k € which is an insult.
I have given up. Once my cash runs out I'm taking social security and die a depressed bitter man.
Being self-employed the internet is owned by the big companies and everything is getting harder as time passes. Not because of tech, but companies and regulations.
For instance BaFin, the Germany regulatory institution for finance. I wanted a certificate so I could automate bank account checks, because FinTS3.0 now requires a OTP for every action you do. So no more automated bank account checks. Now you need XS2A which requires a certificate and registration. The cert costs a sum every 2 years, which the German state printshop receives (Bundesdruckerei). I asked them how I can register, I want to register, tell me how please. After 3 mails which were sent over 2 months I'm none the wiser. Yet I see over 500 companies already registered. I don't have a German name, that's probably why.
Next example. I have a website that compares dsl cable fiber tariffs. The domain is old has I partnered with all kinds of telcos via the Zanox affiliate network. Something happened, they rebranded to Awin and the partnership was cancelled. I've then recently redone the site, made it more modern. Every Telco except the German Telekom accepted the affiliate application. Only the German Telekom declined for NewSpeak reasons that don't explain anything at all.
Thanks to the corrupt Axel Voss the EU has redone copyright and put hosts in jail with 1 leg. If you're a host, you allow people to post messages on your leased hardware and one of the free users posts something illegal, you will be liable for what the user had posted.
So what's left? Writing 10 Best x/y/z spam articles?
I'm overqualified and underappreciated. I have written distributed systems out of necessity, not because it was hipster. I've had top 1000 alexa ranked sites. If I had them nowadays I could make a living, but back in 2006 they barely paid the hosting costs.
What can I do anymore? I don't know. Take some shit job just for the money? Pretend I'm interested in their crap? I really don't care. I can't work under someone. I can't accept someone being my boss, in the negative sense. I also don't like people. People suck. Too many negative experiences with them. Especially work people. I don't want to live in an environment where you have to watch every word you say. And 15-20 years ago society was much more tolerant for negativity. Nowadays you have the politically supercorrect kids. Look at Stallman, HOW DARE HE. I mean WTF. So he returns and Red Hat of all companies is like "ZOMG THE NERVE" because he questioned the integrity of the 17 year old girl? What bullshit. And this is just symptomatic for today's society. When I see those glass wearing shaved haircuts I'm becoming aggressive, with a suit preferably. Whatever I'm rambling and am a bit drunk.
- Event driven cloud master with k8s and docker knowledge - PHP developer, but Typo3, Magento or Wordpress - Tool user, actually not a real developer but a semi designer
Then there's the - Frontend developer master of virtually everything, studied, knows all the languages and is a designer as well - Backend developer Python, Java, less Ruby, much PHP with Symfony and/or Zend
All of those make me blergh
Oh and they pay 3-4k € which is an insult.
I have given up. Once my cash runs out I'm taking social security and die a depressed bitter man.
Being self-employed the internet is owned by the big companies and everything is getting harder as time passes. Not because of tech, but companies and regulations.
For instance BaFin, the Germany regulatory institution for finance. I wanted a certificate so I could automate bank account checks, because FinTS3.0 now requires a OTP for every action you do. So no more automated bank account checks. Now you need XS2A which requires a certificate and registration. The cert costs a sum every 2 years, which the German state printshop receives (Bundesdruckerei). I asked them how I can register, I want to register, tell me how please. After 3 mails which were sent over 2 months I'm none the wiser. Yet I see over 500 companies already registered. I don't have a German name, that's probably why.
Next example. I have a website that compares dsl cable fiber tariffs. The domain is old has I partnered with all kinds of telcos via the Zanox affiliate network. Something happened, they rebranded to Awin and the partnership was cancelled. I've then recently redone the site, made it more modern. Every Telco except the German Telekom accepted the affiliate application. Only the German Telekom declined for NewSpeak reasons that don't explain anything at all.
Thanks to the corrupt Axel Voss the EU has redone copyright and put hosts in jail with 1 leg. If you're a host, you allow people to post messages on your leased hardware and one of the free users posts something illegal, you will be liable for what the user had posted.
So what's left? Writing 10 Best x/y/z spam articles?
I'm overqualified and underappreciated. I have written distributed systems out of necessity, not because it was hipster. I've had top 1000 alexa ranked sites. If I had them nowadays I could make a living, but back in 2006 they barely paid the hosting costs.
What can I do anymore? I don't know. Take some shit job just for the money? Pretend I'm interested in their crap? I really don't care. I can't work under someone. I can't accept someone being my boss, in the negative sense. I also don't like people. People suck. Too many negative experiences with them. Especially work people. I don't want to live in an environment where you have to watch every word you say. And 15-20 years ago society was much more tolerant for negativity. Nowadays you have the politically supercorrect kids. Look at Stallman, HOW DARE HE. I mean WTF. So he returns and Red Hat of all companies is like "ZOMG THE NERVE" because he questioned the integrity of the 17 year old girl? What bullshit. And this is just symptomatic for today's society. When I see those glass wearing shaved haircuts I'm becoming aggressive, with a suit preferably. Whatever I'm rambling and am a bit drunk.
I work for a German fintech who pays well and we're hiring. If you're interested, LMK where I can contact you
Salesforce.com, NetSuite, SAP or another CRM/ERP specialistion. You're pretty much engineering for business people. You'll go to conferences, make bank (for the time being at least), be given formal training and live a pretty decent 9-5 with lots of job prospects. And being older, you'll be preferred as you've got more corporate/business/people experience.
You sound like me there buddy. Blue collar upbringing and got into tech. The culture shock is weird and off putting. Never seem to fit in either I take it? You have the leg up on me with that whole college thing.
I cant advocate for sticking around salarymen. Never worked for me. Maybe for you with some changes, but that's beyond me.
My advice, quit "freelancing" and start "contracting". Pretty much, start a firm. It's a bigger mental shift than you may expect. This is how you get the bigger projects and big career gains. You find a lot of interesting and good relationships in the business that way. Also, there are a lot more blue collar types who own/run mid to large companies than you might imagine. I was surprised for sure, I can say that much at least.
If you dont want to take that big of a step, try partnering with complimentary firms as a contractor. I used to work with 2 different design firms along with a few small clients of my own. Approach them casually about what you can offer and if a project arises, you'll be glad to give a quote.
Last thing that worked for me, but I didnt pursue as much as I should have was independent products. Build your own software or some product to sell. It does become a job in it's own right, but it's on your terms, not someone elses.
Essentially, I dont think you'll be happy trying to identify as a salaryman programmer, which is what the industry is forcing you into. Your job doesn't define you, which is good, but you're in the wrong positioning if you think working for someone else will agree with your philosophy. You need to start striking out on your own and do you're own thing to find any form of life work balance.
What also helps, do dev outside of the tech industry. Buddy and I got into concrete and I'm the tech and research side of the company. I'm happy with what I do and know very well I'd be miserable in the tech industry, because I already tried it.
I cant advocate for sticking around salarymen. Never worked for me. Maybe for you with some changes, but that's beyond me.
My advice, quit "freelancing" and start "contracting". Pretty much, start a firm. It's a bigger mental shift than you may expect. This is how you get the bigger projects and big career gains. You find a lot of interesting and good relationships in the business that way. Also, there are a lot more blue collar types who own/run mid to large companies than you might imagine. I was surprised for sure, I can say that much at least.
If you dont want to take that big of a step, try partnering with complimentary firms as a contractor. I used to work with 2 different design firms along with a few small clients of my own. Approach them casually about what you can offer and if a project arises, you'll be glad to give a quote.
Last thing that worked for me, but I didnt pursue as much as I should have was independent products. Build your own software or some product to sell. It does become a job in it's own right, but it's on your terms, not someone elses.
Essentially, I dont think you'll be happy trying to identify as a salaryman programmer, which is what the industry is forcing you into. Your job doesn't define you, which is good, but you're in the wrong positioning if you think working for someone else will agree with your philosophy. You need to start striking out on your own and do you're own thing to find any form of life work balance.
What also helps, do dev outside of the tech industry. Buddy and I got into concrete and I'm the tech and research side of the company. I'm happy with what I do and know very well I'd be miserable in the tech industry, because I already tried it.
Work as a contractor. Go to dice.com and upload your resume. I have never felt more solidarity with the workers. We fuck around all day, smoke breaks, ping pong, etc. It’s a solid 90k/year minimum. Yes it’s temp, doesn’t have long term potential, but if you’re a US citizen they don’t have the same control over you. If you get fired, there’s a million more contract roles. These contracting companies are often exploiting legal realities where hiring US citizens lets them get more visas. There is even the concept of “sitting on the bench” while they try to place you in a company. My friends have literally “sat on the bench” (ie, stay at home, do nothing, and get full pay) for 6-12 consecutive months.
Get a job with big company, government or a government contractor. The key is to look for places where it’s a career, not a job. You’ll make a little less cash, but usually get better benefits or pension depending on where you are.
The risk of these jobs is you still need to focus on your craft, and the temptation to slag off is real. If you take this path, be the expert at your thing, teach others, etc.
The risk of these jobs is you still need to focus on your craft, and the temptation to slag off is real. If you take this path, be the expert at your thing, teach others, etc.
It sounds like you are looking for a 9 to 5 job, which are quite plentiful in the SE industry. As others have said, look at governments and established larger companies.
Re: your comment about places looking for ambition and a “story”. Honestly I would recommend you fake it till you get in. Many HR departments in large organizations try find people that meet a certain stereotype but their decisions are often completely removed from the team you would be placed in. This means that you can project an ambitious career personality but once you get in you can start coasting. I would encourage you to try reframe your career and achievements into a narrative that suits what HR is looking for.
Re: your comment about places looking for ambition and a “story”. Honestly I would recommend you fake it till you get in. Many HR departments in large organizations try find people that meet a certain stereotype but their decisions are often completely removed from the team you would be placed in. This means that you can project an ambitious career personality but once you get in you can start coasting. I would encourage you to try reframe your career and achievements into a narrative that suits what HR is looking for.
There are plenty of jobs like that, and many of these create actual value. You might want to consider some jobs in Europe, as they have awesome work life balance or target something outside the big cities.
Look for anything that requires certification. For example, there's an interesting career track where you can get a Huawei gold certification and then travel all around the world assembling UI for billion dollar companies that just want to show video on demand. It's very routine work, and most ambitious people don't like it because growth is linear. But it pays bloody well.
I'm sure Google etc have similar tracks for people who want to set up or sell Google Maps and the like.
Look for anything that requires certification. For example, there's an interesting career track where you can get a Huawei gold certification and then travel all around the world assembling UI for billion dollar companies that just want to show video on demand. It's very routine work, and most ambitious people don't like it because growth is linear. But it pays bloody well.
I'm sure Google etc have similar tracks for people who want to set up or sell Google Maps and the like.
Find a company where the other engineers are doing the same.
You’ll basically be fighting fires and not doing anything truly useful and/or intellectually challenging though. If you are an average engineer, you might even seem like a rockstar there.
Alternatively, go work in Europe, where coasting is basically a given in any non high growth startup.
You’ll basically be fighting fires and not doing anything truly useful and/or intellectually challenging though. If you are an average engineer, you might even seem like a rockstar there.
Alternatively, go work in Europe, where coasting is basically a given in any non high growth startup.
Sounds like you’re looking for a government job, or a government contractor job. The bar in that domain is fairly low and the benefits and work/life balance are good, but it usually comes with certain lifestyle expectations (no drugs, in some cases passing a rigorous background check for security clearance).
take a look at state/federal government jobs. im not saying there arent plenty of people working in government who are climbing the ladder and moving up, just that there are plenty of people who are coasting the way you describe. i live in the dmv area, and know many of them in both directions.
Look into salesforce.com certification and jobs. Those roles are very close to what you’re describing.
If you want something, you have to work for it. There's a certain degree of coasting you can get at jobs, but you need to do the upfront work of studying certain technologies and preparing for a certain position.
You don't need military grade discipline, but you need some.
You don't need military grade discipline, but you need some.
Better to hammer then coast imo. You build up knowledge that lets you coast later, and also street cred so your extended team knows you can do a good job. But you just take the foot off the gas and then crank for 2-3 hours at a time and that’s it.
Have you considered getting a software job at a bank or insurance company?
I apply to those kinds of companies sometimes (I apply to tons of different places, almost indiscriminately) though I don’t see banks and insurance companies ever get back to me.
I hear their interviews must be very easy to pass. The interviews that I do tend to get never result in offers, though I can go anywhere from 1 to 4 rounds.
I hear their interviews must be very easy to pass. The interviews that I do tend to get never result in offers, though I can go anywhere from 1 to 4 rounds.
The people at Wells Fargo seem to be coasting.
I was thinking writing title in my linkedIn profile
"Not 10x developer just plain old average John Doe developer".
I agree with your sentiment here
One word: Academia
guess it depends on where you land. i'm in academia now and it's absolutely horrifying. understaffed, constantly dropped into new projects while other ones are on fire, tons of overtime, professors don't respect your standard 8-5 schedule, frequently working weekends, under endless stress, unappreciated, etc. i write software in a research facility, not university IT, so YMMV.
The schedule / lifestyle of an academic is almost opposite to the 9-5 'just a job' the OP is looking for.
Government. I hated it. You'll love it.
Get a government software job.
There are a few things at play, and they are important.
The first is technology is a moving target. Contrasting it with let's say house painting, or plumbing. Painting today is the same job it was 5 years ago, and the same job it was 10 years ago. If you were great a painting a house then, you'll still be great a painting a house now. If a corporate company hires you to paint their new construction, you'll provide consistent value. No real expectation of growth.
The tech industry on the other hand, is constantly changing. If you're valuable at what you do now, if you learn nothing new, in 5 years without growth you'll be less valuable. Technology will have moved on, your skills will be less relevant. Sometimes it's in important ways (there are new more efficient ways of doing things and you didn't learn them so you're less productive on relative terms), other times in unimportant ways (a new fad came along that is no better than the previous fad, but you don't know it). Unfortunately almost nobody in tech really knows what is a valuable better technology, and what is just a fad until many years have gone by, so the (faulty) assumption is that most are valuable and so people should learn them.
The other part of this problem, is that at most companies (and definitely at FAANGs) someone fresh out of school for their first year at a company is essentially a net negative for the company. The work you do (value you provide) is for the most part worth less than sum of the money you make, the bugs you introduce, the time from other people you need for help. Maybe is 6mos maybe it's 12, but overall it's net negative. Companies know this and accept it because as you learn and gain skills you eventually become "worth" the investment.
The other problem is an issue in the industry. There is a ton of money to be made in it, so there is somewhat of a prolonged gold rush. As a result of the money to be made, and potential . If you're a 10% better plumber, you get the pipes unclogged 10% faster and not much difference. If you're 10% better programmer, you deliver your software sooner, take over the market and the company earns 10x the money. This essentially means people overwork themselves for effectively no reason, but the culture hasn't caught on to it.
But there is a flip side of this. So many people came up in this new industry, in this environment that they don't realize they aren't being rewarded for those extra hours. If every employee works 60hrs per week instead of 40, salaries don't go up by 50%, you just split the same pie, while making the company more money.
Finally, as the industry matures, it will. Because software is such a growing industry, every year more people graduate into it than the year before. So the industry is still very bottom heavy by age ranges. People just out of school, with little obligations and excited spent way more time working long hours and being willing to sacrifice life for work. By the time get some years in he industry, start having family and kids they realize they aren't getting the tradeoff they want and can scale back a bit.
But fundamentally it's this. A career in technology (unlike other professions) requires keeping up with technology. You absolutely can do it, given the fact you've stayed in the tech world now for so many years shows that you're capable of it. The question is do you want to continue with it? It doesn't mean you have to be super-ambitious, but it does mean you need to keep up with the moving landscape.
My advice would be this: let's say you have 10 years experience a freelancing. But overall development you're likely equal with someone who has been developing skills and is mid-career (ex 3-5 years).
Try applying for jobs requiring 3-5 years experience only, and be straightforward. Say you' had been freelancing and stopped focusing on skill development. There were some areas where you feel you haven't developed as well as you'd like to. So for this job you think there are some aspects you'll be overqualified for, others you'll be right on target, but you're ok with that as you want to use it to round out your skillset, and get back to growing and developing.
And then do that. Good luck!
The first is technology is a moving target. Contrasting it with let's say house painting, or plumbing. Painting today is the same job it was 5 years ago, and the same job it was 10 years ago. If you were great a painting a house then, you'll still be great a painting a house now. If a corporate company hires you to paint their new construction, you'll provide consistent value. No real expectation of growth.
The tech industry on the other hand, is constantly changing. If you're valuable at what you do now, if you learn nothing new, in 5 years without growth you'll be less valuable. Technology will have moved on, your skills will be less relevant. Sometimes it's in important ways (there are new more efficient ways of doing things and you didn't learn them so you're less productive on relative terms), other times in unimportant ways (a new fad came along that is no better than the previous fad, but you don't know it). Unfortunately almost nobody in tech really knows what is a valuable better technology, and what is just a fad until many years have gone by, so the (faulty) assumption is that most are valuable and so people should learn them.
The other part of this problem, is that at most companies (and definitely at FAANGs) someone fresh out of school for their first year at a company is essentially a net negative for the company. The work you do (value you provide) is for the most part worth less than sum of the money you make, the bugs you introduce, the time from other people you need for help. Maybe is 6mos maybe it's 12, but overall it's net negative. Companies know this and accept it because as you learn and gain skills you eventually become "worth" the investment.
The other problem is an issue in the industry. There is a ton of money to be made in it, so there is somewhat of a prolonged gold rush. As a result of the money to be made, and potential . If you're a 10% better plumber, you get the pipes unclogged 10% faster and not much difference. If you're 10% better programmer, you deliver your software sooner, take over the market and the company earns 10x the money. This essentially means people overwork themselves for effectively no reason, but the culture hasn't caught on to it.
But there is a flip side of this. So many people came up in this new industry, in this environment that they don't realize they aren't being rewarded for those extra hours. If every employee works 60hrs per week instead of 40, salaries don't go up by 50%, you just split the same pie, while making the company more money.
Finally, as the industry matures, it will. Because software is such a growing industry, every year more people graduate into it than the year before. So the industry is still very bottom heavy by age ranges. People just out of school, with little obligations and excited spent way more time working long hours and being willing to sacrifice life for work. By the time get some years in he industry, start having family and kids they realize they aren't getting the tradeoff they want and can scale back a bit.
But fundamentally it's this. A career in technology (unlike other professions) requires keeping up with technology. You absolutely can do it, given the fact you've stayed in the tech world now for so many years shows that you're capable of it. The question is do you want to continue with it? It doesn't mean you have to be super-ambitious, but it does mean you need to keep up with the moving landscape.
My advice would be this: let's say you have 10 years experience a freelancing. But overall development you're likely equal with someone who has been developing skills and is mid-career (ex 3-5 years).
Try applying for jobs requiring 3-5 years experience only, and be straightforward. Say you' had been freelancing and stopped focusing on skill development. There were some areas where you feel you haven't developed as well as you'd like to. So for this job you think there are some aspects you'll be overqualified for, others you'll be right on target, but you're ok with that as you want to use it to round out your skillset, and get back to growing and developing.
And then do that. Good luck!
Find another field where you're happier. Chasing money isn't worth it.
OK I'll bite,
Sigh....
I wrote this and have reread it multiple times, I know it wont be a popular comment but it still needs to be said as "Get your head out of ass" is too simple of a response. So here goes...
You have never had a full-time job, and don't consider yourself very ambitious. You haven't saved anything for retirement and You just want to coast through life? Like Your Dad did? Maybe ask him?
I don't have many ideas other than keep doing what your doing or get a tent and move to a park, or crime until You get locked up. I understand that some states have three strike laws so there's that.
On a more positive note, if You are currently just part time freelancing then You probably have some spare time to try out other ventures until You find one that works, or just keep trying to get more likes and shares for your social media and a higher ranking in what ever mmorpg your currently winning at instead of winning at LIFE, which is the ultimate RTS game.
Sigh....
I wrote this and have reread it multiple times, I know it wont be a popular comment but it still needs to be said as "Get your head out of ass" is too simple of a response. So here goes...
You have never had a full-time job, and don't consider yourself very ambitious. You haven't saved anything for retirement and You just want to coast through life? Like Your Dad did? Maybe ask him?
I don't have many ideas other than keep doing what your doing or get a tent and move to a park, or crime until You get locked up. I understand that some states have three strike laws so there's that.
On a more positive note, if You are currently just part time freelancing then You probably have some spare time to try out other ventures until You find one that works, or just keep trying to get more likes and shares for your social media and a higher ranking in what ever mmorpg your currently winning at instead of winning at LIFE, which is the ultimate RTS game.
?? Not once have I mentioned my recreational activities as I really don't use social media much, or play MMO games.. regardless, such activities are as much a part of life as anything else.
I have worked 40 hour/week jobs but they're not really "full time" in the legal sense- I don't get benefits nor other employee-related perks as I am mainly hired to be a permatemp and been trying to build my career as a permatemp.
If those are the only ideas you have, then I would have to at least counter with the possibility there are other (legal) ways to find work, discover the places where interviewing is not important and find work as a programmer there.
I have worked 40 hour/week jobs but they're not really "full time" in the legal sense- I don't get benefits nor other employee-related perks as I am mainly hired to be a permatemp and been trying to build my career as a permatemp.
If those are the only ideas you have, then I would have to at least counter with the possibility there are other (legal) ways to find work, discover the places where interviewing is not important and find work as a programmer there.
Sounds like You have it all figured out, congratulations. I guess You just needed to whine a bit, sorry for attacking You. It's not my place to offer tough love. Realistically speaking the more self-identified defeatist victims out there, the better my odds of success are.
As I am trying to be a more positive person this year, I will counter your last sentence with...Learn how to interview better and go after the job You want, never settle for what is easy over what You want, don't sell yourself short.
As I am trying to be a more positive person this year, I will counter your last sentence with...Learn how to interview better and go after the job You want, never settle for what is easy over what You want, don't sell yourself short.
[deleted]
You could consider trading stocks and other assets in an automated way.
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https://duckduckgo.com/?q=swing+trading&t=fpas&ia=web
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trend+trading&t=fpas&ia=web
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=back+testing&t=fpas&ia=web
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=automated+trading&t=fpas&ia=web
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=book+financial+instruments+weiss&t...
Do not do this. Automated trading is hyper competitive and only feasible for institutional investors.
I won’t and it sounds just as unstable as my last jobs. Even if I wanted to I certainly don’t have that kind of money to throw (monetary net worth < last stimulus check)
I want a software engineer job where most people are basically coasting, but everyone seems to look down at my slow career growth. They expect a "story" in my resume with a definite "beginning" and "end" with development and accomplishments in the middle. Sorry, but I haven't yet adjusted to that mindset and I don't know if I can.
This worked fine for me in 2010, but in 2015 and beyond it has gotten way more difficult to get job offers. I never even have a proper FT job. or retirement accounts. I'm now a part-time freelancer that chases after short projects but doesn't earn enough for a livable salary.
Is this the industry telling me I'm not cut out to be a career programmer? Am I just now limited to using programming as a hobby, to tinker around with home projects while I take a job in something very different? I don't know what else I'd like to do (that doesn't require returning to college) and I don't like where that possibility is heading for me.
I just wanted to model my career after the pacing of my parents' jobs since that is what I have been most accustomed to in my life. Is there still room for older but lower-end programmers who work like this?