Robinhood Files S-1(blog.robinhood.com)
blog.robinhood.com
Robinhood Files S-1
https://blog.robinhood.com/news/2021/3/23/robinhood-markets-inc-confidentially-submits-draft-registration-statement
55 comments
Will the app block shorting robinhood? Does robinhood automatically take the long position?
Can they 'insider' trade based on knowledge of their customers positions on themselves and knowledge of their own upcoming financial results? Seems like ripe for shenanigans.
Can they 'insider' trade based on knowledge of their customers positions on themselves and knowledge of their own upcoming financial results? Seems like ripe for shenanigans.
Get a real broker. And if you are trading on your phone, you are probably doing it wrong. (Feel free to vote me down).
Why am I doing it wrong?
What are you trying to achieve?
Either you do buy and hold or you do trigger trading (expecting good sales, acquisition announcement etc.) or you do HFT. I doubt that you are able to do HFT. I know some people that are extremely successful with the first two. So what is left?
Trading too much. And very likely you are doing this on your phone. How often do you check the ticker? The answer will give you a good idea about what you are doing.
Either you do buy and hold or you do trigger trading (expecting good sales, acquisition announcement etc.) or you do HFT. I doubt that you are able to do HFT. I know some people that are extremely successful with the first two. So what is left?
Trading too much. And very likely you are doing this on your phone. How often do you check the ticker? The answer will give you a good idea about what you are doing.
I buy stocks every month (of what I can “miss”) and do that via an app. I wonder why that is “the wrong way”?
guess there is too much stupid money flying around to not file at this point in time.
I have been thinking of opening a deli myself. If you can't beat em, join em.
they must have god tier sandwiches.
So disappointed with their performance during $GME. I’m sure a lot of people will make money in this IPO but I can’t support it.
The fact that they weathered that so unscathed gives me begrudging belief that their IPO will go well, at least short-term.
I have heard so many apologists for Robinhood but never heard it addressed why they couldn't have implemented whatever measures of protection they "had to" in a stock-agnostic way.
I have heard so many apologists for Robinhood but never heard it addressed why they couldn't have implemented whatever measures of protection they "had to" in a stock-agnostic way.
The "stock-agnostic way" metric is volatility. GME experienced volatility never seen before. Thus measures never taken before are justified. Given your quotes around "had to" I suspect you don't believe Robinhood was essentially forced into these measures. If you're going to hate Robinhood, it should be because they created a gamified app that emboldened people to jump into the GME debacle and for creating a service that goes down in times of heavy trading, not because they had to take measures to reduce their risk profile.
I am not well versed in the financial services industry but this article seemed to offer at least a plausible explanation for why Robinhood (and other capital limited brokers) stopped buys on GME specifically:
https://stu2b50.dev/posts/why-robinhood-d3580b
I want to be upfront in that I can't verify the accuracy of this article, and I still look askance at Robinhood personally; however, it did pique my interest in keeping an eye out for further analyses of the incident as more details emerge. And it seems like there is plausibility to Robinhood's claims that they had to halt buys.
And...on the face of it, I am all for regulation that places risk management requirements on financial firms.
https://stu2b50.dev/posts/why-robinhood-d3580b
I want to be upfront in that I can't verify the accuracy of this article, and I still look askance at Robinhood personally; however, it did pique my interest in keeping an eye out for further analyses of the incident as more details emerge. And it seems like there is plausibility to Robinhood's claims that they had to halt buys.
And...on the face of it, I am all for regulation that places risk management requirements on financial firms.
Collateral obligations aren’t stock agnostic at the central clearing level.
didn't this happen a month ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26561321
Oops I never saw another post on the YC forum regarding this
I am interested to know what percentage of their user base they lost after the past few months. I know I personally cancelled my account with Robinhood, but I don't know if I'm in the minority or not.
I just don't see the point of them anymore. Once the other trading platforms started offering $0 transactions, I saw way less value in Robinhood - then, following that, the argument was "fractional shares", which many other platforms offer.
Is it just that they are the most famous name in the retail investor space?
I just don't see the point of them anymore. Once the other trading platforms started offering $0 transactions, I saw way less value in Robinhood - then, following that, the argument was "fractional shares", which many other platforms offer.
Is it just that they are the most famous name in the retail investor space?
I moved away but not because of the GME/liquidity issues but rather their handling of 1099 tax information the last two years has been terrible (delayed, altering website to cover up their delays, and corrected both years). It is just unprofessional.
Plus they only offer "First In, First Out" stock sales which can have absolutely MASSIVE tax implications. Most real brokers offer FIFO, LIFO, and most importantly specific lots.
PS - I do keep a few bucks in RH so I can continue to use their real time graphs/watchlists/options information/etc, since my normal broker's website/app has terrible UI/UX by comparison (and it isn't close). RH is known for bringing free transactions, but maybe they should be known for being the first broker with non-terrible UI.
Plus they only offer "First In, First Out" stock sales which can have absolutely MASSIVE tax implications. Most real brokers offer FIFO, LIFO, and most importantly specific lots.
PS - I do keep a few bucks in RH so I can continue to use their real time graphs/watchlists/options information/etc, since my normal broker's website/app has terrible UI/UX by comparison (and it isn't close). RH is known for bringing free transactions, but maybe they should be known for being the first broker with non-terrible UI.
I don't get this fascination with their UI. The charts are terrible (other than looking cool) and the current holdings list sucks. It is as if it is written for people allergic to information density.
I don't understand what you mean about their charts, my regular broker has no real time charts at all, and the charts they do provide leave a lot to be desired. RH chart's also allows you to jump between day/week/3 month/etc and get a summary of performance within those ranges (which would normally be tabular data). Plus you can mouse hover over the history to get spot pricing on that date.
High information density has a place, but when it directly results on me needing two different screens to get the information I need on one screen then it is a real problem. For example my regular broker's order flow requires me to have two tabs, one to order, and one to show my existing position's cost basis. That's broken.
I think the situation speaks more to just how terrible existing broker's UI/UX is, rather than RH inventing something novel. They just make an interface that was basically solid, which is oddly rare for brokers.
Google's homepage has better stock charts than my regular broker for example (and RH's charts are better than Google's).
High information density has a place, but when it directly results on me needing two different screens to get the information I need on one screen then it is a real problem. For example my regular broker's order flow requires me to have two tabs, one to order, and one to show my existing position's cost basis. That's broken.
I think the situation speaks more to just how terrible existing broker's UI/UX is, rather than RH inventing something novel. They just make an interface that was basically solid, which is oddly rare for brokers.
Google's homepage has better stock charts than my regular broker for example (and RH's charts are better than Google's).
On the iPhone app their charts look like this retrowave sci-fi garbage, with no axis labels or meaningful markings
And your regular broker doesn't do real time charts? Uhh.... I don't know who you're talking about but if my broker lacked this I'd strongly consider switching to someone better (but not RH)
And your regular broker doesn't do real time charts? Uhh.... I don't know who you're talking about but if my broker lacked this I'd strongly consider switching to someone better (but not RH)
It's simple, fast, and at least back when I used it, was reasonably consistent.
I'm all for information density, but using Schwab, Vanguard, whatever results in slow to load pages which refresh every time I click a button. Half the pages look completely different than the other half of the pages, I use ctrl-f to find any buttons to click, and sometimes pages just don't load because they don't feel like it.
Banking websites are horribly broken and outdated on a technical level, even if I don't consider the design aesthetic.
I'm all for information density, but using Schwab, Vanguard, whatever results in slow to load pages which refresh every time I click a button. Half the pages look completely different than the other half of the pages, I use ctrl-f to find any buttons to click, and sometimes pages just don't load because they don't feel like it.
Banking websites are horribly broken and outdated on a technical level, even if I don't consider the design aesthetic.
Schwab executes my trades as they should and I don't have to worry about them lying about liquidity problems. Vlad was a complete disaster during the congressional testimonies.
He got obliterated on his suggestion that they have suicide support (A rep called the support hotline and it went straight to voicemail). He said "I admit to always improving". Was extremely shady if there was no wrongdoing.
Chamath said "I remember when I met the @RobinhoodApp founders when they were raising their Seed, Series A and Series B. I passed. Why? Optimize for integrity whenever possible because integrity compounds and assholes will fuck you." [1]
I think we'll find out a lot more about Vlad and his operation in the near future. I do not wish them luck on their IPO.
[1] https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354947541125611526
He got obliterated on his suggestion that they have suicide support (A rep called the support hotline and it went straight to voicemail). He said "I admit to always improving". Was extremely shady if there was no wrongdoing.
Chamath said "I remember when I met the @RobinhoodApp founders when they were raising their Seed, Series A and Series B. I passed. Why? Optimize for integrity whenever possible because integrity compounds and assholes will fuck you." [1]
I think we'll find out a lot more about Vlad and his operation in the near future. I do not wish them luck on their IPO.
[1] https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1354947541125611526
I don't think parent was saying Robinhood was good at executing trades, just that its UI was more functional than other brokers'.
I think a lot of what people are talking about when they say "Robinhood UI" is buying/selling, instant deposits, etc. Purchasing fractional shares on Schwab requires depositing money, waiting for it to clear, and clicking through several different pages. Robinhood making every account a margin account to allow purchases before deposits a gamechanger. That said, I agree that the charts are useless and viewing all of your holdings is a chore.
By far the easiest way to look at and buy options. I use Fidelity and it's a PITA!!
Yeah, FIFO only is constraining. I’m definitely waiting for them to offer LIFO and Highest Cost lots
I think the UX is what really makes apps like Robinhood stand out. People are used to a certain level of slickness, and a lot of traditional services just haven’t kept up. It reminds me of when I first downloaded the Chime bank app... It was glorious compared to every other bank app/website I had used before.
I think focusing on UX really does have a big impact on adoption, as it can differentiate a company in a competitive and saturated industry.
I think focusing on UX really does have a big impact on adoption, as it can differentiate a company in a competitive and saturated industry.
I would think it's not insignificant amount of money considering that propagation of cost basis is taking over two months and counting. All brokers are saying Robinhood id slammed by people that left and is unable to make it within the standard 14 days.
I can't speak for the size or amount of users, but definitely it had an impact.
I can't speak for the size or amount of users, but definitely it had an impact.
Worth mentioning that if you move out all your stocks and funds from RH to another broker, they keep your account open but they deactivate trading and won't allow you to reactivate, the only option is to open a new one. I wonder if they count those "open but deactivated" accounts as part of their MAUs.
Probably a small but not insignificant loss. I don't think the WSB / Memestock users are the majority of the platform. For a lot of people I know RH still has the best feeling UX and easiest access for simple investing.
I think they're fine but if pessimism means the stock takes a haircut or dive when it starts trading I'm going to buy-in. There really is not a similar investing app that appeals to the Gen-Z / Millenial market as well as Robinhood does.
I think they're fine but if pessimism means the stock takes a haircut or dive when it starts trading I'm going to buy-in. There really is not a similar investing app that appeals to the Gen-Z / Millenial market as well as Robinhood does.
Absolutely this. Too many people overfocus on the $0 trading fees because that is how Robinhood initially differentiated itself, but it is absolutely the experience that is keeping people today.
$0 fees have been commonplace for a few years now.
$0 fees have been commonplace for a few years now.
I don't think there is another broker with zero commission options trading is there? That seems like a big reason for a lot of people
Not sure about others but Ameritrade is charging $.65 per option trade and that's almost nothing - https://www.tdameritrade.com/pricing.page
I think Fidelity does zero commission options trading.
Fidelity has $0.65 per contract
Surprising that everyone else was quick to pick up zero commission trades for equities, but not for options
I personally left to Schwab after all of the issues RH had with poor customer service and services going down all the time.
I would guess they gained more users than they lost.
The outrage was real and obviously some users left, but at the end of the day most people will still use whatever platform is easiest and cheapest for them.
The outrage was real and obviously some users left, but at the end of the day most people will still use whatever platform is easiest and cheapest for them.
Wait why are you assuming they gained more than lost? OP also mentioned that other places have $0 trades anyway in terms of the cheapness.
Any news is good news. They gained a surge of users when they had that huge outage when COVID first hit. People overestimate the degree to which anyone cares about the controversy, and underestimate the degree to which it's free advertising.
But they aren't anywhere near as seamless or slick as Robinhood. I exclusively use Charles Schwab but I don't even really think they're competing for the same type of users that much.
Agreed. I bet the GME stuff that happened resulted in _a lot_ of free advertising for Robinhood.
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Probably very few. People use it for its ease not its stability or actual trading functionality. They have had massive issues for years with the app crashing during large trading periods and the vast majority of users don't care enough to move. Why would they care about this issue that realistically impacted very few?
Whatever you want to say about Robinhood as a firm, I think we have to admit that their mobile interface blew away their competition.
As much crap as Robinhood gets for their activities around GME, their app is the easiest to use in the space. It's simply fantastic.
I'm interested to know who is frustrated by their software bugs. There have been easily fixable basic bugs unaddressed for quite some time, more than a year to be specific, and those bugs cause traders frustration (and financial loss) in volatile times. For example you want to buy or sell and the UI has an old state and unless refreshed it would let you do so.
The UI looks pretty but it's purposely confusing, for example Market Buy, Limit Buy, Market Sell and Limit Sell look almost identical and you are funneled to chose the option that makes RH most money. I even accidentally sold instead of buying and bought instead of selling but luckily I reverted the action before the price changed too much. I lost money several times because of the poor UI and was wondering what others think of their '0 commission' marketing. It is deceptive, the price to pay in RH is quite high, I think I've given them at least a few hundred a month (they've been taking).
There are other issues that I am not going to get too deep into regarding mining trading data, which apparently is how they make their big money. That is the leverage to enable the retail investors to bleed cash in the long run. I've been thinking about the parallel between Robin Hood and RobinHood(LLC), and the latter seems to me like an impostor, it is far from the legendary folkloric outlaw who was robbing the rich to give to the poor. It's quite the opposite in its intention in some ways. But I'll give them credit for priming me for trading.
Anyhow, I rolled up my command line interface for RH. I can easily do limit buys and sells, cancel all orders, and so on with the just one or two keywords while I see the real time data in front of me. The API wrapper for RH is available online for whoever is interested. I keep on improving on my scripts little by little and it's fun to program again in Python. It would be nice to script up a bot that takes advantage of small price fluctuations to generate a modest stream if income.
The UI looks pretty but it's purposely confusing, for example Market Buy, Limit Buy, Market Sell and Limit Sell look almost identical and you are funneled to chose the option that makes RH most money. I even accidentally sold instead of buying and bought instead of selling but luckily I reverted the action before the price changed too much. I lost money several times because of the poor UI and was wondering what others think of their '0 commission' marketing. It is deceptive, the price to pay in RH is quite high, I think I've given them at least a few hundred a month (they've been taking).
There are other issues that I am not going to get too deep into regarding mining trading data, which apparently is how they make their big money. That is the leverage to enable the retail investors to bleed cash in the long run. I've been thinking about the parallel between Robin Hood and RobinHood(LLC), and the latter seems to me like an impostor, it is far from the legendary folkloric outlaw who was robbing the rich to give to the poor. It's quite the opposite in its intention in some ways. But I'll give them credit for priming me for trading.
Anyhow, I rolled up my command line interface for RH. I can easily do limit buys and sells, cancel all orders, and so on with the just one or two keywords while I see the real time data in front of me. The API wrapper for RH is available online for whoever is interested. I keep on improving on my scripts little by little and it's fun to program again in Python. It would be nice to script up a bot that takes advantage of small price fluctuations to generate a modest stream if income.
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