Apple Podcasts Subscriptions(apple.com)
apple.com
Apple Podcasts Subscriptions
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/04/apple-leads-the-next-chapter-of-podcasting-with-apple-podcasts-subscriptions/
59 comments
Yeah. I actually listen to ads on shows like TWiT, since it’s a live read and they vet their advertisers. Occasionally it ends up being part of the discussion a little which adds to it being natural-feeling.
If it’s pre-recorded (even if read by the hosts), I tend to skip it more often, since I’ve usually heard it before. I don’t think I’m interested in listening to any show with DAI at all.
True live reading of ads is hard, it doesn’t scale, and you don’t get micro-precise audience tracking, but it makes me pay more attention. That’s what should really matter.
If it’s pre-recorded (even if read by the hosts), I tend to skip it more often, since I’ve usually heard it before. I don’t think I’m interested in listening to any show with DAI at all.
True live reading of ads is hard, it doesn’t scale, and you don’t get micro-precise audience tracking, but it makes me pay more attention. That’s what should really matter.
Yes, the increasing amount of DRM and exclusives is concerning.
However, there's been lots of misinformation about Apple "killing RSS feeds." As far as I can tell, the majority of podcasts on Apple Podcasts will still be driven by RSS (hosted on 3rd-party platforms).
This video explains how it works now: https://youtu.be/g9ZVucX0J80
However, there's been lots of misinformation about Apple "killing RSS feeds." As far as I can tell, the majority of podcasts on Apple Podcasts will still be driven by RSS (hosted on 3rd-party platforms).
This video explains how it works now: https://youtu.be/g9ZVucX0J80
It's not clear from what I've seen so far but does the Apple podcast premium features require the podcast to be exclusive to Apple (like Rogan on Spotify?) It doesn't seem so.
I don't see very much of a problem if the podcasters aren't forced to use Apple exclusively or provide premium features exclusively on their platform. As it is now, many podcasts already do the same but their premium offering is buried somewhere on Patreon, which is a kludge. If they aren't barred from continuing premium features on other platforms (like the App Store where developers cannot even mention other payment options) I don't see too much of a problem, maybe that the other platforms might get neglected.
I don't see very much of a problem if the podcasters aren't forced to use Apple exclusively or provide premium features exclusively on their platform. As it is now, many podcasts already do the same but their premium offering is buried somewhere on Patreon, which is a kludge. If they aren't barred from continuing premium features on other platforms (like the App Store where developers cannot even mention other payment options) I don't see too much of a problem, maybe that the other platforms might get neglected.
No. Does not require exclusivity.
> If a podcast host runs a sponsor read, they often at least vet the sponsor and understand the product.
This is also why conventional advertising (print and billboards) has remained sane compared to the race-to-the-bottom that online advertising has become.
The barrier to entry (in both price, vetting by the owner of the advertising spot, regulation and exposure to fact-checkers) usually meant that the advertised product isn't a total scam or overly malicious. It was a win-win both for the advertisers and potential customers.
This is also why conventional advertising (print and billboards) has remained sane compared to the race-to-the-bottom that online advertising has become.
The barrier to entry (in both price, vetting by the owner of the advertising spot, regulation and exposure to fact-checkers) usually meant that the advertised product isn't a total scam or overly malicious. It was a win-win both for the advertisers and potential customers.
Did I miss it? How much is Apple taking from these paid podcasts? 15% 30%?
Found it: looks like Apple is taking a 30% cut. Yikes. https://twitter.com/mattmedeiros/status/1384561220909473800?...
Found it: looks like Apple is taking a 30% cut. Yikes. https://twitter.com/mattmedeiros/status/1384561220909473800?...
To be accurate: 30% for the first year, 15% after that.
This is a shame in many ways—podcasts really seemed like they were incredibly healthy without the influence of multi-billion dollar corporations.
With this and what Spotify is doing I foresee a future where podcasts are like streaming video: siloed across dozens of incredibly mediocre applications. Hopefully this doesn't lead to the locking down of the Apple Podcast Directory, which I believe is still the de facto standard source for most podcasts.
With this and what Spotify is doing I foresee a future where podcasts are like streaming video: siloed across dozens of incredibly mediocre applications. Hopefully this doesn't lead to the locking down of the Apple Podcast Directory, which I believe is still the de facto standard source for most podcasts.
Yah. I'm baffled by this. Absolutely baffled. You set up a site, any site, make an RSS feed, and we all had aggregators that polled and downloaded new episodes. This system was working fantastically. Why is this even happening?!
People who aren't independently wealthy have to get paid to continue producing content. It's pretty straightforward as a concept. Patronage of the arts has been a thing for thousands of years.
Independent wealth isn't a factor. Here's an example podcast that is deeply niche: https://newrustacean.com/ He found actual sponsors, and patreon donators.
Are you thinking along the lines of people who make the podcast their full time jobs? Do you think the likelyhood of accomplishing this will be easier or harder for a given aspiring podcaster once a middleman controls their revenue, ability to distribute, and context of listening?
And honestly, I don't know the answer to that, all I know that is my experience is going to end up massively worse if authors keep choosing centralization.
Are you thinking along the lines of people who make the podcast their full time jobs? Do you think the likelyhood of accomplishing this will be easier or harder for a given aspiring podcaster once a middleman controls their revenue, ability to distribute, and context of listening?
And honestly, I don't know the answer to that, all I know that is my experience is going to end up massively worse if authors keep choosing centralization.
> patreon donators
> once a middleman controls their revenue, ability to distribute
Patreon already is their middleman that controls their revenue and ability to distribute premium content.
> once a middleman controls their revenue, ability to distribute
Patreon already is their middleman that controls their revenue and ability to distribute premium content.
Can we think of Apple's podcasting ecosystem as similar to paterons? Or can we assume that Apple is looking to wall the garden in, locking everyone to their context, to extract maximum rents because users can't leave. There is some history there.
Patreon is relatively hands off with content though. They do absolutely own the financial relationship with your customers, but their podcast support is still just an RSS feed that can be played anywhere that supports adding by feed.
Who says that won’t continue to be the case? This is just an easy way for the podcaster to make money without advertising. I’d happily support the 1-2 podcasts I religiously consume to get rid of ads.
Agreed to this, I’d rather pay up front than let corporations brainwash me with advertisements. So incredibly dystopian.
Apple really likes pumping up the services revenue, and what better way to do so than get 30% (or 15% after one year) of podcasting fees.
capitalism I think.
> Starting in May, listeners [...] can sign up for premium subscriptions that include a variety of benefits curated by creators, such as ad-free listening, access to additional content, and early or exclusive access to new series.
Some podcasts I listen to already do this via Patreon. The additional content is great for me as a listener and it has allowed a number of the creators to turn their hobby into part- or even full-time jobs. If Apple can make this easier than Patreon (where you have to figure out how to import a private feed into your podcast app), while still allowing the podcasts to exist outside their ecosystem, it's a win for everyone.
Some podcasts I listen to already do this via Patreon. The additional content is great for me as a listener and it has allowed a number of the creators to turn their hobby into part- or even full-time jobs. If Apple can make this easier than Patreon (where you have to figure out how to import a private feed into your podcast app), while still allowing the podcasts to exist outside their ecosystem, it's a win for everyone.
Agreed. I think this can be a good model (freemium), and is certainly fair.
As a consumer of podcasts and as someone who pays for many services, I am not only unlikely to pay much for access to a podcast, but to attempt to juggle multiple listening platforms for podcast discovery and listening. If I can't get a podcast on the podcast app I use, I likely won't listen to it beyond a one-off episode that really interested me.
I used to listen to an occasional Joe Rogan episode before he switched to Spotify. I rarely catch it at all now, though I subscribe to Spotify. I just don't take the time to stay caught up on his guest list outside of my podcast app of choice.
I'm certainly fine with ads in podcasts.
But I don't begrudge podcasters that want to produce exclusive content to support their efforts and perhaps offer add-free podcasts.
As a consumer of podcasts and as someone who pays for many services, I am not only unlikely to pay much for access to a podcast, but to attempt to juggle multiple listening platforms for podcast discovery and listening. If I can't get a podcast on the podcast app I use, I likely won't listen to it beyond a one-off episode that really interested me.
I used to listen to an occasional Joe Rogan episode before he switched to Spotify. I rarely catch it at all now, though I subscribe to Spotify. I just don't take the time to stay caught up on his guest list outside of my podcast app of choice.
I'm certainly fine with ads in podcasts.
But I don't begrudge podcasters that want to produce exclusive content to support their efforts and perhaps offer add-free podcasts.
It’s not a win for everyone. If Apple ends up controlling most of the subscriptions and revenue, then they will also gain control of the ecosystem. All of the things they do in the App Store, for example censoring content they don’t like, will come to podcasts. They will simply suck the air out of the room.
That's very true. Apple has been best positioned (since they've hosted the main podcast database for at least a decade), but many other companies have tried and failed. Apple has failed at similar initiatives. Spotify is the most recent company to try and own Podcasting and I'm not sure how great it's doing right now.
I hope they implement it in a way that third-party podcast clients can support it.
I hope they implement it in a way that third-party podcast clients can support it.
A lot of podcasts mentioned that ad revenue dried up during Covid and they switched to a subscription model because of it. I feel like I can hear the quality drop in the podcasts that continue to have ads.
I get some podcasts cost, and that's fine, but I just feel the big tech companies are in a rush to charge people for everything and make a subscription out of everything good in our lives.
> big tech companies are in a rush to charge people
It took Apple ~15 years to decide charging for podcasts.
It took Apple ~15 years to decide charging for podcasts.
And it’s not required. It’s just optional for podcast authors to opt into, correct?
Right.
Better than ads and tracking
Do you really think paying for a subscription means there won't be tracking?
*Cable TV has entered the chat*
Yep, I think it's the first step to a world without it.
I think betting on a central authority to choose not to make money, when making more money is on the table, is a losing bet long term.
Even Netflix started showing pre-rolls when they were at the height of their power. If a company starts thinking of its users as captive, I expect them to do what almost every other company does in that situation.
Things are pretty fractured in online streaming right now. So hey, maybe none of the providers get to the point where they feel like they have you.
Even Netflix started showing pre-rolls when they were at the height of their power. If a company starts thinking of its users as captive, I expect them to do what almost every other company does in that situation.
Things are pretty fractured in online streaming right now. So hey, maybe none of the providers get to the point where they feel like they have you.
I'm honestly not sure what sort of tracking occurs with podcasts or if tracking and podcast ads go hand-in-hand. There must be some degree of audience analytics, I guess.
Generally, I am not sure that no-ads means no-tracking, either. Though, that could certainly be a selling point to paying for a service of any kind.
Generally, I am not sure that no-ads means no-tracking, either. Though, that could certainly be a selling point to paying for a service of any kind.
I run Pi-hole on my home network. Its default blocklists has prevented several podcasts in my partner's Podcasts app from playing. I've had to explicitly allow a couple of distinct third-party trackers/analytics services for them to play.
It was news to me that what I thought was a simple audio file also came with a bunch of analytics/tracking. I previously thought analytics were limited to simple events (play, pause, subscribe, finish, etc.) collected on Apple's side, but apparently not.
It was news to me that what I thought was a simple audio file also came with a bunch of analytics/tracking. I previously thought analytics were limited to simple events (play, pause, subscribe, finish, etc.) collected on Apple's side, but apparently not.
That's interesting. Perhaps using a trusted third party podcast app would be preferable? Again, not sure. I certainly understand having some analytics around non-identifiable data, such as downloads, listens, etc.
Listenting to Podcasts on Overcast how is that ads and tracking ?
If you mean ads from the content creator, well sure they deserve to get money but Apple making money out of the content creator, well that's sad.
This is highly subjective and definitely not a universal opinion.
I want a single subscription. Not death by $1.99/month subscriptions that I can't keep track of.
I have no clue how much money I spend between Patreon, Youtube premium, Netflix, iCloud storage, Spotify, Dropbox, Notion, etc. God knows what else is on my CC bill.
Subscription fatigue is kicking in for me. Apple One subscription was trying to unify this into a single payment per month and now we have this.
I have no clue how much money I spend between Patreon, Youtube premium, Netflix, iCloud storage, Spotify, Dropbox, Notion, etc. God knows what else is on my CC bill.
Subscription fatigue is kicking in for me. Apple One subscription was trying to unify this into a single payment per month and now we have this.
A similar HN comment in 2007 might have read as follows:
"Why is my cable bill $100+? I should be able to subscribe to channels a la carte. They bundle everything together so they can charge me for channels I don't even watch!"
"Why is my cable bill $100+? I should be able to subscribe to channels a la carte. They bundle everything together so they can charge me for channels I don't even watch!"
I find it a good idea to have a note with all my subscriptions. All recurring payments actually. It helps to make sense of the total.
Is there any paid podcast which is only $1.99 / month? They all seem to be at least $5 / month or more.
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I’m not a huge fan, I love podcasts as they exist now (or as they did before Spotify entered the ecosystem).
I might jump over to Apple Podcasts, if only as a step to keep Spotify at bay.
If any of the MBAs at Spotify happen to read HN, please please please reconsider your life choices. Spotify is committing slow-motion brand suicide.
I might jump over to Apple Podcasts, if only as a step to keep Spotify at bay.
If any of the MBAs at Spotify happen to read HN, please please please reconsider your life choices. Spotify is committing slow-motion brand suicide.
Also want to add that Spotify on Desktop/Web is basically unusable for Podcasts. Progress/sync between devices is a huge mess, among other issues.
I have enjoyed using Stitcher which is an aggregator, but had difficulties when some shows were only on Apple (for some reason??). I like the current model of Patreon financial support or individualized advertisement/promotion that we can skip if we want to. This money-driven system is a complete shift in the podcast space because Apple has incentives to push the old style podcasts behind the ones they get a 15-30% cut from sub fees.
Why is the choice either Apple or Spotify. Support one of the many many many other PodCasts apps and keep both behemoths at bay.
I think that's the point. I am unlikely to try to juggle many podcast apps. If I can only get your content in Apple or Spotify, I am less likely to listen or subscribe.
Forcing a listener into an ecosystem may severely limit audience size. But if popular enough, it may work just fine for some creators, such as Stern, Rogan, etc.
Forcing a listener into an ecosystem may severely limit audience size. But if popular enough, it may work just fine for some creators, such as Stern, Rogan, etc.
Except for the fact that Apple closed their walled garden for free podcasts recently why would anyone want to get into bed financially with Apple over your own content? Selling ads for your own podcast is not impossible. It is work, but not much. I fear most sponsors will slowly only do business with Apple, Spotify, etc.... essentially drying up a market that currently works for everyone.
I'm out of the loop. How did apple "close their walled garden for free podcasts recently"?
https://www.imore.com/apple-temporarily-stops-accepting-podc...
Presumably to start their new subscription service. Pretty typical of mega corps, gather market share for free then change how it works once you have enough lock in.
Presumably to start their new subscription service. Pretty typical of mega corps, gather market share for free then change how it works once you have enough lock in.
The message says they they temporarily (not permanently) removed the ability to submit new shows. Is it still unavailable? I assumed they disabled it so they could enable the new podcast management features. Also, I thought apple's podcast app allows you to add an rss feed manually?
>gather market share for free then change how it works once you have enough lock in.
They've had podcasts for more than a decade and barely touched it. I assume the new growth in podcasts recently spurred this more than some typical mega corp evil plan from the start.
They've had podcasts for more than a decade and barely touched it. I assume the new growth in podcasts recently spurred this more than some typical mega corp evil plan from the start.
Agreed, and it seems to be a defensive step that is meant to protect content creators from having to move to Spotify to get paid a premium for their podcast.
This feels like when Google announced they were discontinuing Google Reader. Things were so good, and now I'm worried they will never be the same.
I'm confused, is this optional? Will there always be the free version available but then you have the option to pay for premium which would allow you extras such as ad free? The podcast ecosystem was really special the way it was and this just seems kind of sad but inevitable
this is why we cannot have good things... somebody thinks about making money with the content creators and the users and screws everything.
Related discussion from earlier today - Spotify is Killing the Open Podcast Ecosystem:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26872229
I listen to my podcasts in podcatchers that I want to use. I've switched pocatchers many times too. But platform lockin stops people from using what they want. Spotify is the biggest risk here.
DAI lets podcast networks deliver extremely weird ads. It's hard to describe, and I think it's kind of hilarious. One of the reasons why sponsorships on podcasts have been so lucrative in the past has been "impersonal personalization." If a podcast host runs a sponsor read, they often at least vet the sponsor and understand the product. They usually have personally used it, and on many podcasts, the sponsors are just products that the podcasters already use or actually support. Sponsors that sponsor tech podcasts target tech, which makes sense, and they're read by the hosts, usually. In contrast, DAI just brings back "commercials" with the added benefit of being privacy intrusive. I find it really creepy to listen to a podcast from the UK and get an ad for a car dealership a mile away. Yet, that's what DAI does. It's enough of a turn off that I wish I had an adblocker for podcasts, which says something.
The podcast medium has always been a niche, and I'm happy to see it growing. But it seems like the companies who want to grow it are going about it in some of the worst ways possible. Apple re-entering the fray is good competition wise, but it's scary to think that they might lockdown their podcast directory or pitch podcasts without RSS feeds. I'm sure they won't tolerate privacy invading analytics, but it's such a delicate balance that I'm fearful for the future.
Edit: Looks like Apple's premium features (like subscriber only content) are indeed behind DRM and only accessible in the Apple Podcasts app: https://podcasters.apple.com/support/899-set-up-your-show-fo....