Perfectly Ordinary Stones, Carried for 1,300 Years (2014)(ishimochi.com)
ishimochi.com
Perfectly Ordinary Stones, Carried for 1,300 Years (2014)
https://ishimochi.com/
52 comments
[deleted]
> Among the people there are non-Japanese
I find it quaint the idea that where will be a concept of "Japanese" and "non-Japanese" in 1300 years from now.
If you assume the rate of progress is fixed (which it isn't, as we know, it accelerates), you can get some sense of how farfetched this idea is. 1300 years ago was the year 721 CE. There was no unified Japan then[1] (nor likely even a concept of "Japanese" identity as most imperial practices were modeled from China), nor was there a "Europe," a "Mexico," or a "South Africa." There certainly wasn't the notion of national identity in the modern sense, as such concepts would have been alien to village-dwellers living under feudal lords.
After many cycles of political consolidation and fracturing, it is unlikely in 1300 years there will be a unified Japan; but, more likely, the entire pan-Asian sphere will have been unified (probably under China), if not under the purview of a world government. Sino-Japanese languages will probably mix Australasian language groups, borrowing heavily from English, creating a dialect that would sound as alien to us as Chaucer does now[2].
In 1300 years, global warming will render a good portion of the planet uninhabitable without artificial climate controls, and new parts of the planet never before populated will experience a flourishing of new development. Major cities will develop in hitherto uninhabited land in Siberia, Canada and elsewhere, probably creating new power centers we can't even begin to contemplate. New nations will rise and challenge dominant superpowers for position. There will be at least one more major global war in the next millennium, which could result in a complete shift of power, or nuclear winter or annihilation of a good % of humanity.
And they think some stones are going to survive.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nara_period [2]https://mypoeticside.com/poets/geoffrey-chaucer-poems
I find it quaint the idea that where will be a concept of "Japanese" and "non-Japanese" in 1300 years from now.
If you assume the rate of progress is fixed (which it isn't, as we know, it accelerates), you can get some sense of how farfetched this idea is. 1300 years ago was the year 721 CE. There was no unified Japan then[1] (nor likely even a concept of "Japanese" identity as most imperial practices were modeled from China), nor was there a "Europe," a "Mexico," or a "South Africa." There certainly wasn't the notion of national identity in the modern sense, as such concepts would have been alien to village-dwellers living under feudal lords.
After many cycles of political consolidation and fracturing, it is unlikely in 1300 years there will be a unified Japan; but, more likely, the entire pan-Asian sphere will have been unified (probably under China), if not under the purview of a world government. Sino-Japanese languages will probably mix Australasian language groups, borrowing heavily from English, creating a dialect that would sound as alien to us as Chaucer does now[2].
In 1300 years, global warming will render a good portion of the planet uninhabitable without artificial climate controls, and new parts of the planet never before populated will experience a flourishing of new development. Major cities will develop in hitherto uninhabited land in Siberia, Canada and elsewhere, probably creating new power centers we can't even begin to contemplate. New nations will rise and challenge dominant superpowers for position. There will be at least one more major global war in the next millennium, which could result in a complete shift of power, or nuclear winter or annihilation of a good % of humanity.
And they think some stones are going to survive.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nara_period [2]https://mypoeticside.com/poets/geoffrey-chaucer-poems
> If you assume the rate of progress is fixed (which it isn't, as we know, it accelerates), you can get some sense of how farfetched this idea is. 1300 years ago was the year 721 CE. There was no unified Japan then[1] (nor likely even a concept of "Japanese" identity as most imperial practices were modeled from China), nor was there a "Europe," a "Mexico," or a "South Africa." There certainly wasn't the notion of national identity in the modern sense, as such concepts would have been alien to village-dwellers living under feudal lords.
The rate of progress can decrease, and even go negative!
Consider the concepts of empire and identity from 700 years before your year 721 CE that were entirely replaced by smaller, less-advanced ones.
Though I would also be surprised if anything like Japan, China, the US, or Europe as we know them today are recognizable in 1300 years, whether because of advance or collapse (or both!).
But some traditions I expect to survive. They'd just be identified as part of whatever the new resulting cultures are that inherited them.
The rate of progress can decrease, and even go negative!
Consider the concepts of empire and identity from 700 years before your year 721 CE that were entirely replaced by smaller, less-advanced ones.
Though I would also be surprised if anything like Japan, China, the US, or Europe as we know them today are recognizable in 1300 years, whether because of advance or collapse (or both!).
But some traditions I expect to survive. They'd just be identified as part of whatever the new resulting cultures are that inherited them.
> a "Europe"
Closest was probably the concept of Christendom, the part of the world unified by the Christian religion. Remember both the Catholic/Orthodox and Catholic/Protestant splits were well in the future.
Closest was probably the concept of Christendom, the part of the world unified by the Christian religion. Remember both the Catholic/Orthodox and Catholic/Protestant splits were well in the future.
Oh, the stones will survive. It's just that nobody will care about those particular stones.
And your observation about the long term effects of our actions (which themselves are accelerating in frequency and impact) on climate, the world in general and human structures and concepts is spot on, it is a special kind of delusional that declaring a couple of stones special will have a long term effect on those particular stones. At the same time, it did lead to some interesting insights so in a way the value has already been delivered, even if the stones are lost tomorrow.
And your observation about the long term effects of our actions (which themselves are accelerating in frequency and impact) on climate, the world in general and human structures and concepts is spot on, it is a special kind of delusional that declaring a couple of stones special will have a long term effect on those particular stones. At the same time, it did lead to some interesting insights so in a way the value has already been delivered, even if the stones are lost tomorrow.
> And they think some stones are going to survive.
Perhaps the point is to foster long-term thinking, a bit like the ideas of "The Long Now" foundation
https://longnow.org/
Perhaps the point is to foster long-term thinking, a bit like the ideas of "The Long Now" foundation
https://longnow.org/
I mean, it's fun to speculate, but anyone who claims to have any idea of what's going to happen literally more than a thousand years from now is just full of crap.
Even predicting 20 years ahead is almost impossible. 1300 is just fiction.
Even predicting 20 years ahead is almost impossible. 1300 is just fiction.
Under exponential model assumptions, in 1300 years humanity will spread into neighbouring star systems, with Earth most likely to be depopulated and left as a nature preserve.
> In 1300 years, global warming will render a good portion of the planet uninhabitable without artificial climate controls
The idea of predicting the effects of global warming 1000 years in the future is really absurd. You are understating your point here, at our current rate of consumption, our fossil fuels will last for 200 years at (a highly inflated) maximum. Global warming as we know it is meaningless after that time period. Odds are there will be some crisis about too much consumption of atmospheric CO2 before that.
The idea of predicting the effects of global warming 1000 years in the future is really absurd. You are understating your point here, at our current rate of consumption, our fossil fuels will last for 200 years at (a highly inflated) maximum. Global warming as we know it is meaningless after that time period. Odds are there will be some crisis about too much consumption of atmospheric CO2 before that.
[deleted]
> In 1300 years, global warming will render a good portion of the planet uninhabitable without artificial climate controls...
The way things are going, that is looking like less than 100 years. The increasing pollution and degradation of the biosphere, rising sea levels and more will drastically change civilization.
And even if those things don't take us out, the robot uprising / Singularity / whatever is highly likely to completely destroy civilization, and in the best-case scenario, replace it with something better.
The way things are going, that is looking like less than 100 years. The increasing pollution and degradation of the biosphere, rising sea levels and more will drastically change civilization.
And even if those things don't take us out, the robot uprising / Singularity / whatever is highly likely to completely destroy civilization, and in the best-case scenario, replace it with something better.
Prediction: they'll be lost.
Why?
Because things that do not have intrinsic value tend to get lost at a very high rate and things that do have intrinsic value tend to get stolen, and then are lost.
If it happened to 99.99% of all the works of humanity from 1300 years ago, including some very precious ones it will almost definitely end the same way for these none-precious stones.
This is a study in provenance, especially because there isn't anything special about the stones other than being 'the ones', and I like the project as such but the cynic in me can't help but look around and fail to see even a single object from that long ago that didn't have a whole religious order dedicated to keeping it protected through centuries of upheaval and turmoil.
That said, I wish the stone keepers the best of luck and I do hope that it will work, but the value for me is in thinking about the project and its consequences, not so much in the execution.
Why?
Because things that do not have intrinsic value tend to get lost at a very high rate and things that do have intrinsic value tend to get stolen, and then are lost.
If it happened to 99.99% of all the works of humanity from 1300 years ago, including some very precious ones it will almost definitely end the same way for these none-precious stones.
This is a study in provenance, especially because there isn't anything special about the stones other than being 'the ones', and I like the project as such but the cynic in me can't help but look around and fail to see even a single object from that long ago that didn't have a whole religious order dedicated to keeping it protected through centuries of upheaval and turmoil.
That said, I wish the stone keepers the best of luck and I do hope that it will work, but the value for me is in thinking about the project and its consequences, not so much in the execution.
It needs to be either entirely precious, entirely worthless (and buried), or exceptionally large. Nobody has stolen the pyramids yet.
Well, the smooth cover of the pyramids have been stolen and the pyramids have been used as source material for building in the past. So, not stolen in its entirety, but damaged.
What I would think is that some, if not all, of the ordinary stones will indeed by lost, but then surreptitiously replaced by others (after all, they have no identifiable properties).
1300 years from now, there will be stones, but the not the original ones. I think it fits the purpose perfectly, just like purported official Christian relics.
What I would think is that some, if not all, of the ordinary stones will indeed by lost, but then surreptitiously replaced by others (after all, they have no identifiable properties).
1300 years from now, there will be stones, but the not the original ones. I think it fits the purpose perfectly, just like purported official Christian relics.
Don’t forget about the contents of the pyramids which have also been removed (mummies and such)
>> What I would think is that some, if not all, of the ordinary stones will indeed by lost, but then surreptitiously replaced by others (after all, they have no identifiable properties).
While not ideal, even that may be OK to some extent -- perhaps the valuable thing is the soul of what you are carrying. I think of it like a University or a specific house of worship. Yes, there are physical assets, but the real assets (the people) come, contribute, leave but the soul of the organization lasts for hundreds of years.
While not ideal, even that may be OK to some extent -- perhaps the valuable thing is the soul of what you are carrying. I think of it like a University or a specific house of worship. Yes, there are physical assets, but the real assets (the people) come, contribute, leave but the soul of the organization lasts for hundreds of years.
Is this close enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Simbel#Relocation
The Pharaos had the right idea there. And they seem to have admirably succeeded in their goal. They picked their stones the right size!
Reminds me of the Stone of Scone, a perfectly ordinary stone carried for over 1,000 years and used in the coronation of English monarchs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone
And don't forget the Scone of Stone!
https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Scone_of_Stone
https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Scone_of_Stone
[deleted]
carried?
Which will last longer, the stones or the website. Between ssl certs expiring, embedded google map, hosting provider, dns, etc... I'd bet on the stones.
I rather enjoyed the way that website loaded on my iPhone.
Scroll down for the English translation, rather than read the autotranslated Japanese
I’d hate to be the guy that loses one of these things.
The author tries to convince that these stones are so ordinary, ostensibly to argue that they will not be stolen. However, watch what happens as these stones start to develop a provenance and get photographed and documented along the way.
Reading this I had a flicker of desire to steal "Lily of the valley", and likewise this desire to take hold of such a rare coveted object will grow in the hearts of man over the centuries. What gives something value is not always its intrinsic worth, but also how it takes hold in the public consciousness. Just look at worthless NFTs.
And so starts the secret brotherhood of stone-keepers who will fend off the evil advances of those who would break the sacred lineage. Or, liars will introduce new stones to inflate the supply and claim to be sacred stone-keepers. So let's put a blockchain around this thing and be done with it.
Reading this I had a flicker of desire to steal "Lily of the valley", and likewise this desire to take hold of such a rare coveted object will grow in the hearts of man over the centuries. What gives something value is not always its intrinsic worth, but also how it takes hold in the public consciousness. Just look at worthless NFTs.
And so starts the secret brotherhood of stone-keepers who will fend off the evil advances of those who would break the sacred lineage. Or, liars will introduce new stones to inflate the supply and claim to be sacred stone-keepers. So let's put a blockchain around this thing and be done with it.
Multiple secret societies, some protecting an obscure (but in reality, quite harmless and worthless) item, some protecting the first, some trying to infiltrate, some completely made up?
Umberto Eco and Pynchon would be proud.
Umberto Eco and Pynchon would be proud.
How would you ensure correspondence between the stone and the NFT though?
How would you ensure the correspondence between anything and an NFT? You don't. That's why the parent called them worthless.
You can destroy the original meats pace version
Deconstruct the stone and reform it as a series of gates which can be turned on and off by applying electricity. I will leave the rest as an exercise for the reader.
Could you do something similar to how sports memorabilia is marked?
you can engrave the stone at specific depth inside (i.e. not on the surface) by using proton accelerator.
I'd guess they are lost already. Or in a drawer. Once the initial excitement is gone, ...
LMAO! Anyone can claim to be carrying these ordinary stones, just like they can claim to be Anonymous, or that Bill Murray said no one will ever believe you. Also if someone loses the stones they can just pick up some new ones later...
Their names are listed on the website. It'd be hard to convince someone you've got the stone if your name isn't listed there
Maybe they can do like NFT stones. Or a merkle tree of stones. Maybe each person has to bring 3 new people into the stones society haha
I like that they put all the table rows in for the next 1300 years. Reminds me of someone numbering a music collection and starting optimistically with 0000001 (they usually gave up at about 000005).
Looks like the Mayor and the Buddhist Monk are already messing things up, judging by the chart at the bottom.
Someone is gonna sell theirs on Ebay (or as it’s known 1000 years from now, Eblork).
They should try to get the organists at St. Burchardi to look after one of them.
The mayor and the monk didn't pass the stone on after 5 years :/
Have they started selling NFT on those stones yet?
I am taking one photo per season of one particular tree in my commune's forest.
This woman has been taking self portraits once a year for 17 years, with last year's photo in this year's: https://www.ignant.com/2019/01/21/the-mother-as-creator-a-ph...
We need more long, slow art projects.