Ask HN: Hacker News like forums for other niches?
Forums that are actually like HN that have a minimal interface and promote actual discussion with tree like threads unlike other forums where you can barely see 4 people's response and can hardly tell who's replying to who.
114 comments
I suspect statistically, the HN for X is HN.
A topic silo encourages people to behave in ways that might help them reach the top of the silo. Getting to the top is expedited by pushing other people down. Even worse, it is expedited by driving out expertise.
The dynamics of HN prevent that. Topics so broad that being way outside your domain is the normal state of encountering an HN topic for everyone. Nobody has a well informed opinion about most of the items on the front page...most people don't even care about more than a handful of them even when there is a single story dominating it.
Secondly, there is no way to get to the top of HN. While karma adds up, HN is a constellation not a heap. The center is YC itself with rings of founders in the closest orbit around its mass.
Karma itself only puts you in the Oort cloud.
A topic silo encourages people to behave in ways that might help them reach the top of the silo. Getting to the top is expedited by pushing other people down. Even worse, it is expedited by driving out expertise.
The dynamics of HN prevent that. Topics so broad that being way outside your domain is the normal state of encountering an HN topic for everyone. Nobody has a well informed opinion about most of the items on the front page...most people don't even care about more than a handful of them even when there is a single story dominating it.
Secondly, there is no way to get to the top of HN. While karma adds up, HN is a constellation not a heap. The center is YC itself with rings of founders in the closest orbit around its mass.
Karma itself only puts you in the Oort cloud.
I am trying to imagine the reaction an artist or musician would get to "Show HN: here is some art I do" and it is at least 50% "what is this doing here, HN is for programmer/startup stuff". I am pretty sure the HN for X, where X is "art" or "music", is not HN.
I am also finding myself tempted to do exactly this with regards to the graphic novel I drew a few years back, just to see how badly it performs.
I am also finding myself tempted to do exactly this with regards to the graphic novel I drew a few years back, just to see how badly it performs.
We just got an email from a painter the other day and I encouraged him to post his stuff here. We'll see if he does. Admittedly he only knows about HN because he's also a programmer.
huh, maybe I should post my GN here sometime then. Probably on a weekend, I feel like non-programming stuff generally gets more traction here on the weekends.
It is somewhat more better than internet points when one of my posts gets a “why is this on HN?”
I don’t think HN will ever be overrun by original artworks. Partly because like most things on the internet most original artwork trends a bit forced. Mainly because nothing dominates HN. Not even Lisp.
I don’t think HN will ever be overrun by original artworks. Partly because like most things on the internet most original artwork trends a bit forced. Mainly because nothing dominates HN. Not even Lisp.
Art and music topics do appear on HN front page, but only when they satisfy intellectual curiosity.
Sharing art or music itself rarely does this, but I remember recently seeing an acid house generator, and another had a constellation of electronic music samples along a long page.
Sharing art or music itself rarely does this, but I remember recently seeing an acid house generator, and another had a constellation of electronic music samples along a long page.
My highest voted story submission by far was when the Netherlands Bach Society started the All of Bach project many years back. It's somewhat random what will catch HN's attention.
I remember the acid house generator, but I missed that constellation of samples sounds really interesting. Would love to see it if you had a link.
Found it, and after a few months since it was posted, I was misremembering the scope of the list; it’s significantly more than just electronic music.
https://everynoise.com/
https://everynoise.com/
Might be referring to Ishkur’s Guide To Electronic Music? https://music.ishkur.com/
really wish there was a “Literature Extension,” actually specifically for HN
love this website & audience but am doing work in the “building copyleft storytelling” space - a community of which does not yet seem to exist
but wait a sec - what “building copyleft storytelling” even mean except for sounding like some make believe fantasy thing?
by vision rn it’s something like coding but with respect to allowing a new community of creators to grow / develop via effectively “using” (fan-fiction-ing”) a copyleft creators work for new & original creation of
- story
- character
- plot
available for anyone to create w & sell commercial on the basis that they likewise license their work as copyleft Creative Commons CC BY-SA & link-to/credit original source work
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/
i.e
this week am actually releasing signature characters from 3 vol of my free 2 read copyright short story series as copyleft / Creative Commons (CCBYSA) “copyleft character personas” anyone can create w/ (w license & link to credit source)
- NFT art (imagine a cryptopunk with a backstory)
- new orginal story ft copyleft character
- develop copyleft world build
will this be a use-case for crypto ecosystem? i.e ETH for Art/Character/Copyleft world-building?
if no, then what about when considering the “attention-economy”?
if curious about, short story series can be found here - https://blondyn.com
& almost daily superstrings here: http://superstrings.substack.com
for the record, if one vote can count, i do not mean this reply to come off as a shameless “post-selfie” but a legitimate “idea-pitch” from a HN regular of about 5 yrs who is “a writer” that is having difficulty finding an audience which == real bad kinda (sweat-drop + smile emoji goes here;)
also real bad is having zero folk / friends to talk about such an idea with
if this post still makes peeps mad just know just saw this link & the Cheshire post reply on “Art & Music” & imagined “Storytelling” could maybe fit in there as a neat 3rd thus thought to make like Wonderland /share something that ought at a minimum count as curious while simultaneously in quest to be mindful
also if such a copyleft storytelling community does exist pls share thx
love this website & audience but am doing work in the “building copyleft storytelling” space - a community of which does not yet seem to exist
but wait a sec - what “building copyleft storytelling” even mean except for sounding like some make believe fantasy thing?
by vision rn it’s something like coding but with respect to allowing a new community of creators to grow / develop via effectively “using” (fan-fiction-ing”) a copyleft creators work for new & original creation of
- story
- character
- plot
available for anyone to create w & sell commercial on the basis that they likewise license their work as copyleft Creative Commons CC BY-SA & link-to/credit original source work
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/
i.e
this week am actually releasing signature characters from 3 vol of my free 2 read copyright short story series as copyleft / Creative Commons (CCBYSA) “copyleft character personas” anyone can create w/ (w license & link to credit source)
- NFT art (imagine a cryptopunk with a backstory)
- new orginal story ft copyleft character
- develop copyleft world build
will this be a use-case for crypto ecosystem? i.e ETH for Art/Character/Copyleft world-building?
if no, then what about when considering the “attention-economy”?
if curious about, short story series can be found here - https://blondyn.com
& almost daily superstrings here: http://superstrings.substack.com
for the record, if one vote can count, i do not mean this reply to come off as a shameless “post-selfie” but a legitimate “idea-pitch” from a HN regular of about 5 yrs who is “a writer” that is having difficulty finding an audience which == real bad kinda (sweat-drop + smile emoji goes here;)
also real bad is having zero folk / friends to talk about such an idea with
if this post still makes peeps mad just know just saw this link & the Cheshire post reply on “Art & Music” & imagined “Storytelling” could maybe fit in there as a neat 3rd thus thought to make like Wonderland /share something that ought at a minimum count as curious while simultaneously in quest to be mindful
also if such a copyleft storytelling community does exist pls share thx
> I suspect statistically, the HN for X is HN.
I don't find that to be true for certain topics:
* unions and unionization (apparently 9 out of 10 HN uncles agree unions are bad news for a mountain of uncles' evidence)
* current state of research in the social sciences (you have to wade through inescapable trolls who wish to throw out entire fields of research because they once read an eviscerating blog by an angry grad student regarding p-hacking)
* geopolitical significance of Wikileaks since its inception (did you know humans can lie by omission? You did? Anyway, let HN concern troll you about it in the form of copy-pasta bots once roughly every full moon.)
* cost benefit analyses of Electron (HN almost seems to have made a sport out of overestimating the cost of memory and hard disk space in the year 2021)
* veracity of traditional news media (like playing duck-duck-goose except the goose is some poster quoting the "Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect" cocktail story in an attempt to do an end run around reading any of the books written by experts on that topic)
* how to absolutely position HTML text over the exact same position as SVG text. (That was my own Stackoverflow holy grail quest, but I'd be willing to bet no one will reply on this thread with the right answer.)
I'd love to know what other topics people find here that are typically filled with garbage.
I don't find that to be true for certain topics:
* unions and unionization (apparently 9 out of 10 HN uncles agree unions are bad news for a mountain of uncles' evidence)
* current state of research in the social sciences (you have to wade through inescapable trolls who wish to throw out entire fields of research because they once read an eviscerating blog by an angry grad student regarding p-hacking)
* geopolitical significance of Wikileaks since its inception (did you know humans can lie by omission? You did? Anyway, let HN concern troll you about it in the form of copy-pasta bots once roughly every full moon.)
* cost benefit analyses of Electron (HN almost seems to have made a sport out of overestimating the cost of memory and hard disk space in the year 2021)
* veracity of traditional news media (like playing duck-duck-goose except the goose is some poster quoting the "Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect" cocktail story in an attempt to do an end run around reading any of the books written by experts on that topic)
* how to absolutely position HTML text over the exact same position as SVG text. (That was my own Stackoverflow holy grail quest, but I'd be willing to bet no one will reply on this thread with the right answer.)
I'd love to know what other topics people find here that are typically filled with garbage.
There are plenty of pro-union posts here. Of course it's a divisive topic, but it's a cognitive bias to see the other side as "9 out of 10" (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). Most generalizations people make about HN are subject to this sort of distortion (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...).
When put in "unions" into HN Search and look at the recent comments (excluding things like SQL and credit unions), opinion seems split, with a mild tilt in the pro-union direction. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=1&prefix=true&que...
When put in "unions" into HN Search and look at the recent comments (excluding things like SQL and credit unions), opinion seems split, with a mild tilt in the pro-union direction. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=1&prefix=true&que...
Re: social sciences. It is not always trolling. As a physicist, when I look at the abysmally low quality of data analysis and bias in presenting the results I have zero confidence in what is claimed.
If there was actual willingness for these journals to publish rigorous papers where bad statistics are rejected, maybe people would have more trust (and not have fun of the "science" often found in the papers)
If there was actual willingness for these journals to publish rigorous papers where bad statistics are rejected, maybe people would have more trust (and not have fun of the "science" often found in the papers)
> what other topics people find here that are typically filled with garbage
Well, for me, the subjects I know the most about, like (some aspects of) music, philosophy, chess. Full of people who know nothing about the subject misinforming others.
Well, for me, the subjects I know the most about, like (some aspects of) music, philosophy, chess. Full of people who know nothing about the subject misinforming others.
I built a topic silo modeled after HN and I've been running it for 2 years so I think I can address some of your statements.
It's a problem validation platform[1] called needgap. Problems are the first class citizens submitted as posts. Startup ideas, MVP, Products to solve the problems goes into comments.
I modeled it after HN for the reasons mentioned by OP and I wanted it to minimal design wise for reasons made clear below. I built it on top of Kenny Grant's golangnews.com project.
It's usually the Entrepreneurs who create posts for validating a problem/need-gap. They and other entrepreneurs comment about solutions or their own product. Consumers who are searching for a solution for their problem visit the respective needgap thread, Check out the products and sometimes make a comment.
Insights like number of people visiting a problem, top 3 countries (week/month) and how many will pay for that startup idea in the comment are available to subscribers($5 USD).
> to the top is expedited by pushing other people down
> it is expedited by driving out expertise
Voting is just for platform sanctity at needgap and doesn't add much value to the validation(Views from search, Comments are more important). Further, voting rights(karma) can be gained only by commenting and Downvotes burn a karma. Votes are shown only to the owner.
> Nobody has a well informed opinion about most of the items on the front page
That's why needgap doesn't rely upon regular user's subject matter expertise but that occasional (often one-time) visitor's expertise about knowing about a problem (or) knowing how to solve that problem.
Validation happens through those who might actually need our product and not by a bunch of people in a closed platform like most 'pay for a startup idea' type platforms. Hence minimalism of HN matters, email is optional like HN. Someone who comes to needgap from Google Search doesn't even need to know what needgap is.
> there is no way to get to the top of HN
Lifetime of posts (problems) is very long at needgap, 2 year old problem still get solutions as the need for solution exists as long as need-gap exists.
But since number of problems/day is low when compared to HN almost all genuine problems(i.e. problem != startup idea) gets its way to home page and many stay there for several months.
There are about 3500 registered users, almost as many visit needgap every single day organically.
[1] https://needgap.com
It's a problem validation platform[1] called needgap. Problems are the first class citizens submitted as posts. Startup ideas, MVP, Products to solve the problems goes into comments.
I modeled it after HN for the reasons mentioned by OP and I wanted it to minimal design wise for reasons made clear below. I built it on top of Kenny Grant's golangnews.com project.
It's usually the Entrepreneurs who create posts for validating a problem/need-gap. They and other entrepreneurs comment about solutions or their own product. Consumers who are searching for a solution for their problem visit the respective needgap thread, Check out the products and sometimes make a comment.
Insights like number of people visiting a problem, top 3 countries (week/month) and how many will pay for that startup idea in the comment are available to subscribers($5 USD).
> to the top is expedited by pushing other people down
> it is expedited by driving out expertise
Voting is just for platform sanctity at needgap and doesn't add much value to the validation(Views from search, Comments are more important). Further, voting rights(karma) can be gained only by commenting and Downvotes burn a karma. Votes are shown only to the owner.
> Nobody has a well informed opinion about most of the items on the front page
That's why needgap doesn't rely upon regular user's subject matter expertise but that occasional (often one-time) visitor's expertise about knowing about a problem (or) knowing how to solve that problem.
Validation happens through those who might actually need our product and not by a bunch of people in a closed platform like most 'pay for a startup idea' type platforms. Hence minimalism of HN matters, email is optional like HN. Someone who comes to needgap from Google Search doesn't even need to know what needgap is.
> there is no way to get to the top of HN
Lifetime of posts (problems) is very long at needgap, 2 year old problem still get solutions as the need for solution exists as long as need-gap exists.
But since number of problems/day is low when compared to HN almost all genuine problems(i.e. problem != startup idea) gets its way to home page and many stay there for several months.
There are about 3500 registered users, almost as many visit needgap every single day organically.
[1] https://needgap.com
I’ve been thinking about this myself lately. I’d like to create something that nurtures curiosity like HN but is more broad-based. In considering this, I suspect that moderation is far more important than any technical aspect of HN (thank you @dang, Scott, et al). There’s a challenge when moderation is more democratic and fungible.
Elektronauts (https://elektronauts.com) is a great forum for discussing electronic music production. It’s affiliated with the Swedish brand Elektron, so there’s a lot of content specific to their kit, but there is also a lot of general music making (and wider) discussion.
It reminds me of HN in the sense that it is very well moderated - it’s rare to see anyone trying to cause trouble and they get shut down quickly if they do - and most of the people seem smart and friendly. There’s quite a lot of good content (if you’re interested in music production, of course!) - it’s the only other forum type thing I use really.
It doesn’t have the same layout as HN as it uses Discourse (which is more like a traditional forum layout, but very nicely done IMO).
In theory it feels like Reddit should be the obvious answer here but it just doesn’t work for me. Too much crappy meme/joke content and/or loads of empty threads on more specialised topics. Also not a fan of the UI.
It reminds me of HN in the sense that it is very well moderated - it’s rare to see anyone trying to cause trouble and they get shut down quickly if they do - and most of the people seem smart and friendly. There’s quite a lot of good content (if you’re interested in music production, of course!) - it’s the only other forum type thing I use really.
It doesn’t have the same layout as HN as it uses Discourse (which is more like a traditional forum layout, but very nicely done IMO).
In theory it feels like Reddit should be the obvious answer here but it just doesn’t work for me. Too much crappy meme/joke content and/or loads of empty threads on more specialised topics. Also not a fan of the UI.
Another one for electronic music making (Monome associated) is lines https://llllllll.co/
Nice. Looks like the same forum software, which I think works really well
https://www.home-barista.com/ is a great forum for espresso and coffee enthusiasts. It has some particularly engaging threads of people who take old, rusted out machines and restore them to glory. One good example: https://www.home-barista.com/repairs/conti-prestina-espresso...
Ha, I wanted to suggest that too!
For my region and all German speakers a (the?) relevant site is https://www.kaffee-netz.de/
It is pretty active and has a lot of topics around coffee and coffee making technologies and techniques. It's definitely on a similar level to what OP was asking, I had to think of it immediately.
For my region and all German speakers a (the?) relevant site is https://www.kaffee-netz.de/
It is pretty active and has a lot of topics around coffee and coffee making technologies and techniques. It's definitely on a similar level to what OP was asking, I had to think of it immediately.
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Ravelry is kind of amazing. Really well run community for knitting, yarns, etc.
https://www.ravelry.com
https://www.ravelry.com
That takes me straight to nothing but a sign-up page, so it’s different from HN in a rather significant respect.
This used to be called Reddit. Not so much anymore, since they started optimizing for advertisers instead of users.
I don't think there are going to be very many places like HackerNews. "Hackers" as a subculture are bolstered by the fact that Internet based modes of communication and work (not just forums but also things like Github) are seen as interesting and productive. Plus the people capable designing such a forum are likely to be software people; it's a bit more difficult for a skilled mechanical engineer to quickly set up a forum. So it's no surprise that many of the forums are software/"hacker" oriented (e.g. Blind, Lobste.rs, HN). Any forum built by software engineers for other people seems doomed to go the way of Reddit rather than the way of HN.
However, I'll give a shoutout for a great community forum that I've participated in, and that's ChiefDelphi. But that's super niche (it's focused around the high school FIRST robotics competition).
I don't think there are going to be very many places like HackerNews. "Hackers" as a subculture are bolstered by the fact that Internet based modes of communication and work (not just forums but also things like Github) are seen as interesting and productive. Plus the people capable designing such a forum are likely to be software people; it's a bit more difficult for a skilled mechanical engineer to quickly set up a forum. So it's no surprise that many of the forums are software/"hacker" oriented (e.g. Blind, Lobste.rs, HN). Any forum built by software engineers for other people seems doomed to go the way of Reddit rather than the way of HN.
However, I'll give a shoutout for a great community forum that I've participated in, and that's ChiefDelphi. But that's super niche (it's focused around the high school FIRST robotics competition).
The memes destroyed a large part of reddit's intellectualism. Not that it descended to the depths of youtube comments, but it was still a fall.
Which is a 1:1 with the age demo of the site lowering precipitously. When I noticed the uptick of memes and posts about living with parents and going to HS I knew there was a big change on the site. There are still many good individual subreddits but the bigger they get the worse the contributors get. It says a lot that even in the small, dedicated subs meme posts are usually at the top of the 'all time' sort.
I just can't imagine why all threaded forums aren't structured like HN (and lobste.rs). For the life of me, neither slashdot nor reddit has ever made any sense to me. Everything else, less so.
The flat (non-threaded) forums have their place. For low traffic, low engagement blog comments feedback stuff.
The flat (non-threaded) forums have their place. For low traffic, low engagement blog comments feedback stuff.
What's the difference between HN and Reddit's thread structure? Both are threaded. And I actually prefer the lines besides the comments, makes the discussion easier to follow.
How is Reddit different from Hacker News aside from the existence (basically required due to the size) of subreddits?
Reddit "smart" collapses subthreads. Sometimes those links expand. Sometimes they open new page. Infuriating.
HN does page big threads, which isn't too bad. I'm immensely grateful HN doesn't do any silly AJAX style background, progressive loading of content.
HN does page big threads, which isn't too bad. I'm immensely grateful HN doesn't do any silly AJAX style background, progressive loading of content.
Really dislike all the new "infinite scroll" stuff.
Age range on here and tech-based outlook is much more mature than most of what's on Reddit. In many ways HN feels like Reddit when it first started. The audience and commenters were very similar to what HN is now; a lot of tech-y people and a heavy SV influence.
That addresses the cultural differences and not the structural differences, which is what the comment was talking about.
There’s DataTau which is focused on data science
https://datatau.net/
https://datatau.net/
This feels like it's strictly worse than /r/datascience or /r/machinelearning. Too much fluff and self-promotion, too little comments.
Actually scratch that, it looks like ALL the posts are self-promotion.
Actually scratch that, it looks like ALL the posts are self-promotion.
I wonder what the relation to https://datatau.com/ is.
I would rather ask for geographical and cultural diversity (irrespective of topic/field) to such a forum, or even HN.
Depends on what languages you can read/write in.
cloudynights is a wonderful community for astronomy of all kinds, including astrophotography.
Would love some recommendations on anything architecture/design related that had HN’s format (unless the subreddits for those topics are as good as it gets)
Architecture and design forums don't, in my experience, work.
They attract amateurs.
Amateurs generally repel expertise.
And experts are already busy doing the thing their expert at...serving clients.
To put it another way, working architects and designers don't have much if any upside from arguing with do-it-yourselfers, people who have only heard of FLW, and the general public which think of commercial construction as just like their house only more so.
They attract amateurs.
Amateurs generally repel expertise.
And experts are already busy doing the thing their expert at...serving clients.
To put it another way, working architects and designers don't have much if any upside from arguing with do-it-yourselfers, people who have only heard of FLW, and the general public which think of commercial construction as just like their house only more so.
The artisan bread niche is here: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/
I'd love a forum with a commitment to valuable discussion - constructive, intelligent, accurate comments. No acting out, no unfounded stuff, no trendy or trolling ideas (that don't otherwise qualify), no BS. In short, I want something worth my time.
HN is the best I've found, but is far from my goal. I found one forum that's higher quality, IMHO, but it's for a specific, narrow hobby.
HN is the best I've found, but is far from my goal. I found one forum that's higher quality, IMHO, but it's for a specific, narrow hobby.
MetaFilter held that niche for some time. I don't know how it fairs today. The moderation was a bit much for me, so I went elsewhere. You might like it. I might revisit it again myself.
https://www.metafilter.com/
https://www.metafilter.com/
Not quite like HN, but a true old-fashioned forum for language learning is 'A Language Learner's Forum'. It branched off from 'How-to-learn-any-language' when it went down in 2015 and has a good load of knowledge available and more with each post
forum.language-learners.org/
forum.language-learners.org/
I run a fork of HN that you can find in my list of projects. https://status.shawwn.com/
You won't find much discussion there (but feel free to start some). Basically, you can submit whatever you find interesting.
You won't find much discussion there (but feel free to start some). Basically, you can submit whatever you find interesting.
I guess why not?
It's such a catch-22.
You want more people to want to use your favorite niche forum. But every niche forum that's gotten popular has been ruined.
Reddit has a few great subreddits. They aren't unpopular, but I also prefer not to market them. Let the people who really want it search for it, I guess.
You want more people to want to use your favorite niche forum. But every niche forum that's gotten popular has been ruined.
Reddit has a few great subreddits. They aren't unpopular, but I also prefer not to market them. Let the people who really want it search for it, I guess.
Ruined? Not always.
For example, investment subreddits are generally very bad, yet the Berkshire Hathaway subreddit (r/brkb) is able to keep the rot out without becoming an echo chamber:
https://old.reddit.com/r/brkb/
This subreddit has literally dozens of value investor moderators, and the bubbles (cryptocurrency/ARK/Musk) are forcibly excluded.
The result is a forum where Buffett's principles of intrinsic value (discounted cash flows) and moats, etc., are explored for Berkshire and the many connected companies (e.g., Verizon).
Read the live chat history to see.
For example, investment subreddits are generally very bad, yet the Berkshire Hathaway subreddit (r/brkb) is able to keep the rot out without becoming an echo chamber:
https://old.reddit.com/r/brkb/
This subreddit has literally dozens of value investor moderators, and the bubbles (cryptocurrency/ARK/Musk) are forcibly excluded.
The result is a forum where Buffett's principles of intrinsic value (discounted cash flows) and moats, etc., are explored for Berkshire and the many connected companies (e.g., Verizon).
Read the live chat history to see.
I mean, there is not much discussion on there.
A sweet spot is a place where there are enough people to have long discussions but each person is deeply invested in the health of the forum itself.
My point was more about the difficulty in preserving the quality as quantity goes up. If you keep the quantity really low, then sure, you can enforce quality. But, then it feels pointless because there simply aren't enough conversations to engage in.
My favorite subreddit has thousands on comments on the weekly thread, yet I can realize familiar names, have deep conversations while the total sub count stays around 10k. Incredibly strict moderation helps (thanks dang), but it is a thankless job.
A sweet spot is a place where there are enough people to have long discussions but each person is deeply invested in the health of the forum itself.
My point was more about the difficulty in preserving the quality as quantity goes up. If you keep the quantity really low, then sure, you can enforce quality. But, then it feels pointless because there simply aren't enough conversations to engage in.
My favorite subreddit has thousands on comments on the weekly thread, yet I can realize familiar names, have deep conversations while the total sub count stays around 10k. Incredibly strict moderation helps (thanks dang), but it is a thankless job.
> But every niche forum that's gotten popular has been ruined.
Really? I'm not sure I agree with this. I feel like if the topic itself is niche or requires some baseline level of competency to contribute, then it actually resists this "crapification" because your average troll just doesn't have enough content/info to work with. It's the broader, general interest topics, usually that have some intersection with politics, that always go to shit.
I mean, I see this on HN itself, where the broad-topic posts often end up in a shit show (though thanks to dang the shit-level is kept under control), while the posts about specific technologies are usually pretty on point.
Really? I'm not sure I agree with this. I feel like if the topic itself is niche or requires some baseline level of competency to contribute, then it actually resists this "crapification" because your average troll just doesn't have enough content/info to work with. It's the broader, general interest topics, usually that have some intersection with politics, that always go to shit.
I mean, I see this on HN itself, where the broad-topic posts often end up in a shit show (though thanks to dang the shit-level is kept under control), while the posts about specific technologies are usually pretty on point.
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Random question... is hn_throwaway_99 your main HN name or you still maintain a main account? I know a lot of folks use a throwaways for controversial stuff or for 'anonymity', but it seems yours is quite prominent.
Heh - short of it is I originally created this "throwaway" account years ago, I just forgot to throw it away. The initial impetus was yes, I was commenting on something controversial, but then I just forgot/was too lazy to switch back to my original account so I just left it.
I kind of agree. If the topic is niche enough, then it will never get popular.
My commentary was on niche community that cover topics of general interest to people. (Think Anandtech, Some meme subreddit or hot-technical areas like r/machinelearning or r/cscareerquestions)
My commentary was on niche community that cover topics of general interest to people. (Think Anandtech, Some meme subreddit or hot-technical areas like r/machinelearning or r/cscareerquestions)
Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution | Meaningness
https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths
https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths
I can think of many examples to the contrary (gaming (particularly ttrpgs), game development, amateur filmmaking, anime, music, fan fiction) which have only benefited from "mainstream" acceptance (primarily through the web - which itself "ruined" the internet,) rather than having been ruined by it. Also the hostile dynamic between mops and geeks described in the article isn't something I've observed in the wild. As far as I can tell most of the time mops and geeks (and even the "sociopaths") turn out to be more or less the same.
One would expect all of these former subcultures turned cultures to be entirely populated by sociopaths and mops giving nothing of quality back to the community, and for the geeks to have long fled the stables, but (to use an example) the people playing D&D today are just as passionate and creative as the people playing it in the 70s and 80s were.
What the article describes is a tendency, it happens, but it's not an axiom. In my experience, gatekeepers paranoid about maintaining their status and ego do far more harm than "muggles" learning about it.
One would expect all of these former subcultures turned cultures to be entirely populated by sociopaths and mops giving nothing of quality back to the community, and for the geeks to have long fled the stables, but (to use an example) the people playing D&D today are just as passionate and creative as the people playing it in the 70s and 80s were.
What the article describes is a tendency, it happens, but it's not an axiom. In my experience, gatekeepers paranoid about maintaining their status and ego do far more harm than "muggles" learning about it.
Little bit different route, but usenet. UI wise there are several clients (newsreaders), thunderbird is usable.
Finding good healty groups can be challenge, but they are there. One thing I like, there is healty amount of non-english speaking groups, like germans or italians.
Lobste.rs is an hn-inspired site and open-source software that is also used by other communities.
https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters/wiki
https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters/wiki
It's invite-only for posting and commenting.
https://www.peachesnstink.com
Not niche, but it's very minimal with no JS and has nested comments.
Not niche, but it's very minimal with no JS and has nested comments.
old dot reddit dot com.
There's a great extension called Old Reddit Redirect [0] that'll always take you to old Reddit, highly recommend it.
Reddit's new direction in recent years has been really painful. There's so many great niche communities there that practically don't exist elsewhere on the Internet. Unfortunately, if/when they get rid of old Reddit and the API for third party apps, I'll probably drop Reddit entirely.
[0] Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-CA/firefox/addon/old-reddit-re... Chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/old-reddit-redirec...
Reddit's new direction in recent years has been really painful. There's so many great niche communities there that practically don't exist elsewhere on the Internet. Unfortunately, if/when they get rid of old Reddit and the API for third party apps, I'll probably drop Reddit entirely.
[0] Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-CA/firefox/addon/old-reddit-re... Chrome: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/old-reddit-redirec...
You can just set a setting on reddit to always use old, you don't really need an extension if you browse logged-in.
This is something that has been a source of frustration for me.
There are many wonderful and incredibly in-depth communities on Reddit. They only get that way with substantial investment by passionate volunteers who spend the time to moderate, create on-topic original content, and cultivate a community. Many of these bemoan when they appear on the front page because of the sort of attention it attracts.
Yet the direction that Reddit is going with its design and new features is all about optimizing drive-by clicks and shallow engagements. I understand why. That's more ad impressions, and it's more revenue. But it makes the site generally insufferable, and I suspect, reduces the quality of user-produced content.
And on the subject of content, that is what draws the eyeballs, what produces the ad clicks, what drives the revenue. Am I crazy to think that there is a complex, nuanced ethical relationship between those profiting from the content and those producing it? Providing a place to put the content has value, little point in creating content if you have nowhere to put it. But creating content also has value, little point in creating a platform for content if there is no content to put there.
You can see this play out in another format on Youtube (which for a platform is hell on earth as far as I am concerned, even if amazing content can flourish there). At least they are able to share revenue with the content creators, and many folks make a living creating content.
I don't begrudge Reddit for seeking revenue. I want them to not just sustain, but to flourish. And I have no idea how revenue sharing would work in the forum medium. And to be honest, I don't really care to get paid for the words I write there, or the other OC I share. I just want to know what the balance is going to lead to. I have no agency over my content.
So here's a similar question -- as they continue to push the slider further in the direction of more ads and more dark patterns, I can't help but ask, how much is enough? Reddit users are both producers and consumers. I started using Reddit well over a decade ago, and I have a decade's worth of content I have given them. Meanwhile, I agreed to give my eyeballs to some ads, where the word some has a hazy quantification. I get the sense that some number of ads value is being ratcheted up. And I never agreed to that. We never bargained. I can't get my eyeball time back. But I want my content back. The content that Reddit is getting revenue from.
I have the same question for paid online newspapers. I'm more than happy to pay real fiat money from my credit card or bank account for the news. But these news sites, beyond their paywalls, still show ads. Tomorrow, will they show twice as many ads? Maybe. We never negotiated this. I never saw ads mentioned in the rate card. No guarantees were made. Measuring the value of the content is qualitative and a fool's errand. I can quantify the number, type, and size of ads.
I guess the most important question is: do people even care? If there was a forum that users (customers) paid for with a modest fee, transparently described, instead of some exploitative ramping up of ads, would that be an alternative that consumers would to choose?
There are many wonderful and incredibly in-depth communities on Reddit. They only get that way with substantial investment by passionate volunteers who spend the time to moderate, create on-topic original content, and cultivate a community. Many of these bemoan when they appear on the front page because of the sort of attention it attracts.
Yet the direction that Reddit is going with its design and new features is all about optimizing drive-by clicks and shallow engagements. I understand why. That's more ad impressions, and it's more revenue. But it makes the site generally insufferable, and I suspect, reduces the quality of user-produced content.
And on the subject of content, that is what draws the eyeballs, what produces the ad clicks, what drives the revenue. Am I crazy to think that there is a complex, nuanced ethical relationship between those profiting from the content and those producing it? Providing a place to put the content has value, little point in creating content if you have nowhere to put it. But creating content also has value, little point in creating a platform for content if there is no content to put there.
You can see this play out in another format on Youtube (which for a platform is hell on earth as far as I am concerned, even if amazing content can flourish there). At least they are able to share revenue with the content creators, and many folks make a living creating content.
I don't begrudge Reddit for seeking revenue. I want them to not just sustain, but to flourish. And I have no idea how revenue sharing would work in the forum medium. And to be honest, I don't really care to get paid for the words I write there, or the other OC I share. I just want to know what the balance is going to lead to. I have no agency over my content.
So here's a similar question -- as they continue to push the slider further in the direction of more ads and more dark patterns, I can't help but ask, how much is enough? Reddit users are both producers and consumers. I started using Reddit well over a decade ago, and I have a decade's worth of content I have given them. Meanwhile, I agreed to give my eyeballs to some ads, where the word some has a hazy quantification. I get the sense that some number of ads value is being ratcheted up. And I never agreed to that. We never bargained. I can't get my eyeball time back. But I want my content back. The content that Reddit is getting revenue from.
I have the same question for paid online newspapers. I'm more than happy to pay real fiat money from my credit card or bank account for the news. But these news sites, beyond their paywalls, still show ads. Tomorrow, will they show twice as many ads? Maybe. We never negotiated this. I never saw ads mentioned in the rate card. No guarantees were made. Measuring the value of the content is qualitative and a fool's errand. I can quantify the number, type, and size of ads.
I guess the most important question is: do people even care? If there was a forum that users (customers) paid for with a modest fee, transparently described, instead of some exploitative ramping up of ads, would that be an alternative that consumers would to choose?
Some part defiantly care, I read many stories people cancelling theirs The Economist subscription because of flashy animated ads they put on every article.
No way I would pay $300 yearly for seeing gif advertisements each day.
No way I would pay $300 yearly for seeing gif advertisements each day.
I think that the op means like 2005 Reddit.
Or teddit[0] “ alternative Reddit front-end focused on privacy” [1]. (It’s also much better on mobile than old.Reddit)
[0] https://teddit.net/
[1] https://codeberg.org/teddit/teddit
[0] https://teddit.net/
[1] https://codeberg.org/teddit/teddit
Reddit main page is just comedy and politics. You'll want to check out the niches like its Rust community. Other language-based communities as of late have favored chat-type environments over forums.
Reddit doesn't necessarily have a "main page". I generally don't subscribe to any sub that you would typically see in /r/all, and stick with niche subs instead.
If you don't log into Reddit and just visit <old.reddit.com>, that's what I mean by main page. Reddit has a main page, and you don't have to click anywhere to get there.
I curate HN stories which didn't reach the front page [1]
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27492255
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27492255
There are specific sports forums (for example) that trump anything out there. It’s way better than the subreddit. They are all out there but the community is self selected, as in, you really have to be into that shit to seek such a place out. Anyone that finds those places knows exactly where they are, as in, they know how ‘generic’ and ‘surface-level’ more broadcasted alternatives are (subreddits, HN).
Slashdot has your better users at the moment compared to HN. It’s probably so because who the hell tells anyone about Slashdot now days? And any of the new kids would get laughed away usually. You just have to know what you are looking for.
Rule of thumb:
Avoid any place with under 25s, they are too lame to converse with.
Slashdot has your better users at the moment compared to HN. It’s probably so because who the hell tells anyone about Slashdot now days? And any of the new kids would get laughed away usually. You just have to know what you are looking for.
Rule of thumb:
Avoid any place with under 25s, they are too lame to converse with.
I’ve set up https://news.python.sc but it lost some traction recently
mln.dev for topics related to machine learning.
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For triathlons: the slowtwitch.com triathlon forum.
Anyone know of a "hacker news minus politics and marketing"?
So, no discussion of free software?
I just want to talk about how to build cool shit I don't want to hear about licenses or crap about how me sharing my code with restrictions isn't really "open source", so no, nothing about "free software" . Stop trying to "gotcha" random people with stupid questions.
What do you mean, freeware?
[deleted]
I curate HN stories which didn't reach the front page [1]
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27492255
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27492255
https://hnblogs.substack.com/ Only non commercial blog posts of HN, so no politics or marketing
Thanks looks great
The old slashdot fork soylentnews.org is still bumbling along.
I was quite active there when it launched, but the community quickly just become a carbon copy of /.'s complete with all the same problems and bias.
I hate to be that guy, but literally nothing is apolitical. Hn minus explicitly political content is is just status quo maintenance news.
Where's the politics in discussing which anchor screw holds the most weight in drywall?
Saying everything is political removes any meaning from the word politics.
Saying everything is political removes any meaning from the word politics.
If you rent, you can't put an anchor screw in the drywall. Who rents vs. who owns is political!
How many drywall screws? How corrosion resistant must they be for any given environment? Why screws rather than adhesive or nails?
Why would anybody in this hypothetical thread discuss the politics of owning/renting, when that doesn't bring you closer to any solution?
I could easily make an argument for price, availability, requirements for local zoning codes.
I like Wikipedia’s definition of politics: “Politics (from Greek: Πολιτικά, politiká, 'affairs of the cities') is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations between individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status.”
Any subject arising from the interactions of people can be viewed through a political lens of some sort, but the saying you’re objecting to is typically used in the context of the coded attempt to censor or ignore unpleasant news as being “political”, which in truth usually just translates to “I resent being forced to acknowledge this.”
I like Wikipedia’s definition of politics: “Politics (from Greek: Πολιτικά, politiká, 'affairs of the cities') is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations between individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status.”
Any subject arising from the interactions of people can be viewed through a political lens of some sort, but the saying you’re objecting to is typically used in the context of the coded attempt to censor or ignore unpleasant news as being “political”, which in truth usually just translates to “I resent being forced to acknowledge this.”
Drywall? Who would make a house with drywall? In my country everyone lives in a stone palace. Americans are so cheap, interest rates, unions, Boomers, NIMBYs, short-termism, speculation, etc.
> literally nothing is apolitical
Literally nothing is perfect in the world, but that leaves all the room in the world for variation. No painting is perfect, neither mine nor Van Gogh's - why do people pay so much for Van Gogh's?
Literally nothing is perfect in the world, but that leaves all the room in the world for variation. No painting is perfect, neither mine nor Van Gogh's - why do people pay so much for Van Gogh's?
It’s funny, because the reason van gogh’s work is held in such high regard likely has a lot more to do with politics than the particular merits of his work.
That is funny! It needs some serious basis to make it more than that.
Something for fintech? Or startups?
If you don’t mind right wing politics, retalk.com
The headline of this site says "civil discussion" yet the current top post is a meme which describes a US politician with a slur.
Hadn’t heard of this so went and looked. The top post is literally a photo of Biden that’s captioned:
“The left spent four years telling us how dumb Trump is… Then they drop this *** on us.”
I bleeped out the derogatory language.
That’s not right wing politics. That’s just childish drivel. That looks nothing like a HN for other niches.
“The left spent four years telling us how dumb Trump is… Then they drop this *** on us.”
I bleeped out the derogatory language.
That’s not right wing politics. That’s just childish drivel. That looks nothing like a HN for other niches.
Thanks for the suggestion, pretty much everything political on reddit is heavily brigaded.
A look at retalk's homepage shows similar subforums to reddit like /ufc /funny and /todayilearned so it's more of a reddit replacement than a niche political forum, HN style.
The discussion appears to be civil as well, but everyone has there similar opinions and no reason to argue so that's not saying much.
A look at retalk's homepage shows similar subforums to reddit like /ufc /funny and /todayilearned so it's more of a reddit replacement than a niche political forum, HN style.
The discussion appears to be civil as well, but everyone has there similar opinions and no reason to argue so that's not saying much.
There's a cool one dedicated to the Lightning Network (Bitcoin's 2nd layer): https://stacker.news
Posting, commenting and upvoting each cost 1 satoshi (around $0.0003, currently).
Posting, commenting and upvoting each cost 1 satoshi (around $0.0003, currently).