Ethereum dev Virgil Griffith back in jail after checking $1M Coinbase account(protos.com)
protos.com
Ethereum dev Virgil Griffith back in jail after checking $1M Coinbase account
https://protos.com/griffith-virgil-coinbase-account-ethereum-jail-north-korea-arrest/
115 comments
Why did he have $1M of crypto on Coinbase? I want to hear how that came to be because from the outside it looks like plain stupidity.
> Griffith was arrested and charged with conspiracy to violate the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) in November 2019 after he travelled to North Korea to give a talk on blockchain and crypto.
wow. that's all huh? just a talk
wow. that's all huh? just a talk
Yeah it seems ridiculous doesn't it. Getting thrown in jail for giving a talk doesn't seem like something that should happen anywhere that considers itself as free. It's outrageous really.
The line has to be drawn somewhere and I don’t believe anyone is so naive as to believe this was “just a talk”.
Would you allow a “talk” instructing North Koreans on how to better leverage ransomware to extort money from municipalities?
Save the fake outrage for a real injustice, because there are plenty of those.
Would you allow a “talk” instructing North Koreans on how to better leverage ransomware to extort money from municipalities?
Save the fake outrage for a real injustice, because there are plenty of those.
Do include the next part aswell:
"Griffith was denied permission to travel to North Korea by the State Department but decided to attend the DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference anyway."
"Griffith was denied permission to travel to North Korea by the State Department but decided to attend the DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference anyway."
It's not okay that he should need permission for such a thing I don't think.
Yeah, Dennis Rodman had no problem to travel there... but he probably doesn't know much that can help NK agents to break into crypto infrastructure.
Sanctions would be pretty pointless if anyone could just go and offer goods and services to a sanctioned country regardless.
It may have just been a talk, but a talk is a service, and he knew it was a serious federal crime.
If he planned to rely on the "It was all public information anyway" argument, he is a fool.
It may have just been a talk, but a talk is a service, and he knew it was a serious federal crime.
If he planned to rely on the "It was all public information anyway" argument, he is a fool.
Sure, but up to 20 years in prison for that seems absolutely insane
Collaborating with a rival state that threatens our allies with nuclear weapons on a monthly basis and brutalizes its own citizens on a daily one?
NK is known to obtain foreign currency via cryptocoins. And they need it to pay for developing rockets and atomic weapons. If they ever hit a city in Japan or the US, 20 years would be absolutely mild.
>NK is known to obtain foreign currency via cryptocoins. And they need it to pay for developing rockets and atomic weapons. If they ever hit a city in Japan or the US, 20 years would be absolutely mild.
Interesting. Now do everyone in the last thirty years who helped create the situation where North Korea has nuclear weapons. Starting with Jimmy Carter.
Interesting. Now do everyone in the last thirty years who helped create the situation where North Korea has nuclear weapons. Starting with Jimmy Carter.
He willingly violated international sanctions against NK. Just traveling there already takes a huge amount of preparation and intent - to the point where he was likely interrogated before leaving the US as to why he's traveling to NK.
If you sold weapons to terrorists you'd be facing similar charges.
If you sold weapons to terrorists you'd be facing similar charges.
NSO group has left the chat
> "During and after the conference, Griffith was alleged to have discussed means through which North Korea could use cryptocurrency to evade economic sanctions."
On finances, in a country that is financially sanctioned by half the world.
As a Korean citizen, I am not even allowed to cross the border to the north, yet alone give a talk.
"Griffith was arrested and charged with conspiracy to violate the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) in November 2019 after he travelled to North Korea to give a talk on blockchain and crypto."
This is pretty wild to me. The guy gave a talk in North Korea and gave them non-classified information they could easily find on YouTube or any other public website. And now he's facing 20 years.
This is pretty wild to me. The guy gave a talk in North Korea and gave them non-classified information they could easily find on YouTube or any other public website. And now he's facing 20 years.
Hilarious, land of freedom, justice muh democrazy. Hilarious.
You think people should be free to collaborate with a degenerate regime that has killed millions?
Are you talking about the US, UK or NK?
Buuummm shots fired and full hit! :)
Yes they are all the same, very edgy
They are indeed not the same. After all NK does not regularly drone-strike civilians in the middle east.
I think this thread should get Dang'ed.
Implying moral equivalence between the US, UK and NK is somewhat silly in my opinion.
Badum tss! What a clever retort!
The lack of empathy towards the North Korean people and the burden their regime imposes on them is absolute.
The lack of empathy towards the North Korean people and the burden their regime imposes on them is absolute.
The problem is, do you think it helps the NK people when you make an embargo? The government gets his caviar and plasma tv's anyway, AND the gorverment has a good/true point that the rest of the world is evil.
Embargoes just don't work in such a closed down country.
Embargoes just don't work in such a closed down country.
Of course, USA and China still seem to be doing fine and everyone wants to do business.
US of A and their war on [drugs|WMDs|insert other reason] happens outside of the country so the millions of dead doesn't matter?
US of A and their war on [drugs|WMDs|insert other reason] happens outside of the country so the millions of dead doesn't matter?
It is certainly ethically questionable but I don't think it is reasonable to imprison someone for giving a talk at a conference.
Do you realize that people in the Middle East could literally say the same thing about USA?
They can say that the US systematically silences, murders and imposes totalitarian dread on its own people?
IDK about the murder and totalitarian dread, but silencing is done via NSLs (aka gag orders).
I can certainly say that it is a "degenerate regime that has killed millions".
As for your new question, I would argue that yes, this fits the US.
As for your new question, I would argue that yes, this fits the US.
Do you realize I was replying to your comment where you called it a "degenerate regime that has killed millions"?
I'm not sure the us death count in the middle east has quite hit millions yet.... High hundreds of thousands, maybe.
In 2019 we were in active peace talks with North Korea and our own president even stepped foot in the country to collaborate on peace. It didn't pan out the way we hoped but it was worth a shot.
What’s wild to me is that someone would think that it’s a good idea to give talks about anything in North Korea, a regime that has murdered and starved millions of people.
Also, the people of North Korea do not have access to the internet or Youtube as far as I know.
Also, the people of North Korea do not have access to the internet or Youtube as far as I know.
People who need access to the internet do have it. I think they route through China.
Yup. Only a few businessmen who work for the North Korean dictator, and they are up to no good.
Anyone else using the internet not doing work for the North Korean government would be murdered if caught.
In North Korea they have the "intranet" which is an internal network of learning resources you can use at the local North Korean libraries and schools! It is all propoganda.
Anyone else using the internet not doing work for the North Korean government would be murdered if caught.
In North Korea they have the "intranet" which is an internal network of learning resources you can use at the local North Korean libraries and schools! It is all propoganda.
People who "need access" doesn't everyone brainwashed by an authoritarian dictator need access to the internet to help themselves escape?
Not everyone who needs access has access. A select few who are at the mercy of the dictator do to do his work.
Some people have been known to try to sneak across the border and meet Chinese people in the woods to exchange goods.
Some people send balloons with notes from the outside world over the border to reach people inside.
Perhaps a select few have some garnered enough information about how to use the internet without getting caught they are willing to risk being murdered to do so if they find something dire enough using the internet for but to say people who "need" the internet fire up wiregaurd and call it a day before watching their daily stream of YouTube influencers is an understatement to say the least...
Not everyone who needs access has access. A select few who are at the mercy of the dictator do to do his work.
Some people have been known to try to sneak across the border and meet Chinese people in the woods to exchange goods.
Some people send balloons with notes from the outside world over the border to reach people inside.
Perhaps a select few have some garnered enough information about how to use the internet without getting caught they are willing to risk being murdered to do so if they find something dire enough using the internet for but to say people who "need" the internet fire up wiregaurd and call it a day before watching their daily stream of YouTube influencers is an understatement to say the least...
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Why would they be at a blockchain conference if they don't have access to Internet?
Sorry how is that regime any different from the US?
No idea what he had to gain by travelling to north korea, but more power to him. If it's public info then yeah this is a sham considering that the international financial system is a cartel.
No idea what he had to gain by travelling to north korea, but more power to him. If it's public info then yeah this is a sham considering that the international financial system is a cartel.
I do not believe that you're asking "how is the NK regime different to the US one" in good faith.
I'm talking about what he said, not holistically.
I really don't see how that's am elaboration of the previous statement.
It's not an elaboration -- I never elaborated because the previous person was confused about what I was referring to.
Essentially the US does a lot of things well, like freedom of speech and private property. What it doesn't do well is genocide/murder/starvation, just like DPRK.
Essentially the US does a lot of things well, like freedom of speech and private property. What it doesn't do well is genocide/murder/starvation, just like DPRK.
"Sorry how is that regime any different from the US?" - is that an honest question? Do you really not know how western democracy is different from dictatorial and oppressive regimes in Russia, China, or North Korea?
I already replied to this exact question lol. They are comparable at least in terms of death and starvation. In fact, NK has some catching-up to do.
> "During and after the conference, Griffith was alleged to have discussed means through which North Korea could use cryptocurrency to evade economic sanctions."
Once i had a discussion if there's a better system then democracy...faced a firing squad.
Oh no...
How do I tell you this? People in North Korea don't have access to YouTube and the internet.
Are you aware of what life is like for the people of North Korea?
Only a few select businessmen working for leaders of North Korea are ever allowed to leave and they usually travel to china for unknown business.
Giving a talk like this in North Korea is like teaching businessmen how to engage in moving criminal/ terrorism money without getting caught.
No normal citizen can run the internet/has access to the internet and if they were caught doing so they would be murdered so there's no way any of them could engage in this anyways.
I'm so sorry noone told you what North Korea is like.
How do I tell you this? People in North Korea don't have access to YouTube and the internet.
Are you aware of what life is like for the people of North Korea?
Only a few select businessmen working for leaders of North Korea are ever allowed to leave and they usually travel to china for unknown business.
Giving a talk like this in North Korea is like teaching businessmen how to engage in moving criminal/ terrorism money without getting caught.
No normal citizen can run the internet/has access to the internet and if they were caught doing so they would be murdered so there's no way any of them could engage in this anyways.
I'm so sorry noone told you what North Korea is like.
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The fact that he was allowed to give the talk indicates that the North Korean government was happy for these people to know this information. So they also would have been fine with giving the same people the same information from the internet.
> Giving a talk like this in North Korea is like teaching businessmen how to engage in moving criminal/ terrorism money without getting caught.
Since when is that problematic? Should we lock up CIA agents for 20 years too? I thought USA was the land of the free.
Since when is that problematic? Should we lock up CIA agents for 20 years too? I thought USA was the land of the free.
The point about the information being publicly available on the internet is that it's public information. Not that your average Joe in NK can access it. The regime most certainly does have internet access though, so pretending like this guy gave some top secret info worth locking him up for 20 years of his life for is ridiculous. Nevermind that in 2019 we were in active peace talks with North Korea and even Trump was seen walking across the border without secret service protection to speak with Kim Jong Un that year.
> The point about the information being publicly available on the internet is that it's public information.
Modulo local government laws.
I am not disagreeing with your larger opinion but we have to be careful about “it’s on the internet hence anyone can access it” line of argument.
For instance Pornhub is blocked in India. So if someone were to access it from within India through VPN or whatnot then they are breaking a law and have to face the consequences.
Modulo local government laws.
I am not disagreeing with your larger opinion but we have to be careful about “it’s on the internet hence anyone can access it” line of argument.
For instance Pornhub is blocked in India. So if someone were to access it from within India through VPN or whatnot then they are breaking a law and have to face the consequences.
I will speak out against BS like that too. Just because a law exists doesn't make it right or moral.
"No normal citizen can run the internet/has access to the internet..."
So, the ones that do have access to the internet, could in fact, as the parent suggests, just go on youtube and get that info. Am I missing something?
So, the ones that do have access to the internet, could in fact, as the parent suggests, just go on youtube and get that info. Am I missing something?
Except those are the privileged caste, so it would be immoral to do such a thing in any case.
Just because information is publicly available does not mean they know how to best utilise that information. You can find guides online on how atomic bombs work, but if a physicist traveled to North Korea and gave a talk instructing them how to build an atomic bomb that person should absolutely be arrested.
Very hard to feel sympathy for the guy.
The Ethereum Foundation dev was arrested over a year ago after US authorities claimed then-36-year-old’s conference presentation contained info that North Korea could leverage to launder money and skirt sanctions.
Griffith was denied permission to travel to North Korea by the State Department but decided to attend the DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference anyway.
North Korea is reportedly keen to find ways to get around sanctions imposed by what it regards as a US-led financial system.
Very hard to feel sympathy for the guy.
The US government forbidding a citizen from giving a talk sounds quite totalitarian to me. Looks like the constitution of the US is not worth any more than the paper that it is written on.
Information is power. Sharing critical information with a hostile nation can be incredibly dangerous and can lead to many people being killed. Labeling that as "just giving a talk" is misleading. Any government on earth will arrest people that share critical information with a hostile nation. If doing so makes a government totalitarian then every government on earth is totalitarian, which simply means the totalitarian label is meaningless.
There is nothing critical about open source software. There's teens shilling how to use crypto on TikTok. We use it to breed virtual cats and buy expensive jpegs. You think Kim's hackers don't have access to YouTube? You think they didn't start mining Bitcoin 9 years ago? It's not that critical.
This is over the top and unjustified.
This is over the top and unjustified.
"hostile" is too vague. The us is not supposed to be just "any government on earth" In order to arbitrarily declare someone to have transgressed post facto, there had better be a declared state of war. Otherwise, the government should enumerate exactly what can and can't be said in the laws, and some fed tapping you on the shoulder and saying "don't do that" should not carry water unless that fed points to the specific provision of the law preventing it. Especially when the action is just presenting freely available information. Otherwise anyone who has made a freely available YouTube video on the Blockchain should ALSO have charges levied against them, starting with Grant Sanderson (who I love, btw).
The sanctions imposed by the US government describe explicitly what is and isn’t allowed, and there is a very specific law mentioned in the article.
Griffith was arrested and charged with conspiracy to violate the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) in November 2019 after he travelled to North Korea to give a talk on blockchain and crypto.
He was expressly told by very serious people not to do it. He knew the consequences.
North Korea is building nuclear weapons in order to threaten the United States and its allies with them. Tens of thousands of American soldiers are stationed in South Korea in order to defend it from North Korean aggression. The war between the US and North Korea—which began 70 years ago when the current dictator’s grandfather invaded the South and declared war on the United States—is technically not over, and the possibility that active hostilities may resume at any time still exists.
Sanctions are one of the few tools that the US has to exert leverage against the North Korean regime, and Virgil Griffith is alleged to have travelled to North Korea specifically to help North Korea in violating those sanctions. What he is alleged to have done has been illegal for 70 years.
This is not just about one guy giving a talk.
Sanctions are one of the few tools that the US has to exert leverage against the North Korean regime, and Virgil Griffith is alleged to have travelled to North Korea specifically to help North Korea in violating those sanctions. What he is alleged to have done has been illegal for 70 years.
This is not just about one guy giving a talk.
In 2019 our own President went there to discuss peace. Dennis Rodman and many other Americans have visited NK at various times. I don't think it's moral to arrest someone for speaking about publicly available information. There's nothing Virgil could have told them that they couldn't find on GitHub or YouTube. And yes, Kim's lackeys definitely have access to the internet.
Sanctions seem to work for nothing. NK got nukes anyways. The middle east is still a mess. Iran is still a problem 50 years later. Cuba still a mess. China is arguably our biggest threat but no sanctions there. Russia has diversified itself away from the Petrodollar as much as possible for these reasons. This US Dollar empire is on its last legs. The US isn't 25% of global GDP anymore. None of this is sustainable.
At any rate, I'm sure Kim's hackers are incapable of learning cryptocurrency from any one of thousands of online resources. Crisis averted. Lock him up.
Sanctions seem to work for nothing. NK got nukes anyways. The middle east is still a mess. Iran is still a problem 50 years later. Cuba still a mess. China is arguably our biggest threat but no sanctions there. Russia has diversified itself away from the Petrodollar as much as possible for these reasons. This US Dollar empire is on its last legs. The US isn't 25% of global GDP anymore. None of this is sustainable.
At any rate, I'm sure Kim's hackers are incapable of learning cryptocurrency from any one of thousands of online resources. Crisis averted. Lock him up.
Say what you will about the effectiveness of sanctions and the current state of American foreign policy, United States citizens shouldn’t undertake expressly illegal overt acts on enemy soil to assist hostile governments in undermining that foreign policy—regardless as to whether or not the information they share is already known by that hostile government—without at least expecting to attract unwanted attention from their own government.
We live in a country that has the rule of law, you can't just arbitrarily use a vague characterization of a country being "hostile" to abridge the rights of someone. I would be alright with this if the us had a formal declaration of war with north Korea, but it doesn't.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, the US is technically still at war with North Korea. If there were to be one and only one country on the face of the planet that you should not be giving any kind of information or money to as a US citizen, it is North Korea.
This isn't vague or arbitrary. The sanctions against NK are very specific, and lengthy.
This isn't vague or arbitrary. The sanctions against NK are very specific, and lengthy.
> US is technically still at war with North Korea
No we are not. The constitution specifically says that only congress can declare war, and congress has made no such declaration.
No we are not. The constitution specifically says that only congress can declare war, and congress has made no such declaration.
So we were never at war with Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Vietnam. Sweet. I guess we're still on our perfect win streak yeah?
Edit: I feel bad about being facetious, but I feel like the point is relevant. The US, in a practical sense, does not need congress to ok war. Pointing that out as a reason to doubt the basis for strict treatment of North Korea is like pointing out the speed-limit is 55 when someone travelling 56 gets T-boned.
Edit: I feel bad about being facetious, but I feel like the point is relevant. The US, in a practical sense, does not need congress to ok war. Pointing that out as a reason to doubt the basis for strict treatment of North Korea is like pointing out the speed-limit is 55 when someone travelling 56 gets T-boned.
Hm. There seems to be a correlation between declaring war and winning them.
This is factually true and irrelevant.
War is no longer declared; even when taking on actions that normally require war
> No we are not. The constitution specifically says that only congress can declare war, and congress has made no such declaration.
Do note that the US never declared war on Iraq, and that did not stopped it from fighting two wars that were very real, both of which with the support of an international coalition.
Do note that the US never declared war on Iraq, and that did not stopped it from fighting two wars that were very real, both of which with the support of an international coalition.
The US hasn't formally declared war on anyone since World War 2. Not Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, nor any of the many smaller conflicts we've fought.
However, the United Nations did declare war on North Korea, with US support, and the US is the major participant in that war; and no peace treaty was ever signed, merely a cease fire.
However, the United Nations did declare war on North Korea, with US support, and the US is the major participant in that war; and no peace treaty was ever signed, merely a cease fire.
that's exactly correct. If we're going to start abridging freedoms (which I concede may be necessary in exigencies), we'd better get a congressional vote on it.
I'm afraid you're just stating how you'd prefer things to be instead of discussing (and considering) how things actually are.
The truth of the matter is that declarations of war are patently irrelevant regarding whether a nation is deemed hostile or not.
The truth of the matter is that declarations of war are patently irrelevant regarding whether a nation is deemed hostile or not.
Yes, of course. This whole thread is about how we would prefer things to be, it's about the ethics of whether or not someone should have been arrested. He was arrested. That is the "truth of the matter".
Should giving technical assistance to a sanctioned regime be treated as protected speech? Is that the right that was abridged here? If Virgil Griffith goes to trial, I imagine we will eventually see whether the Supreme Court considers what he did to be protected speech, or not. Personally, I don’t think they would even hear his case if he were to appeal on those grounds.
You write as if Congress has not weighed in on this matter, simply because it has not declared war on North Korea. In fact, current North Korean sanctions were codified and authorized by Congress in the North Korea Sanctions and Policy Enhancement Act of 2016, which expanded upon the sanctions regime that had already been in place. Virgil Griffith’s alleged acts are not illegal because of a vague characterization of North Korea as being “hostile”, but because Congress explicitly made it illegal to travel to North Korea to give technical advice.
You write as if Congress has not weighed in on this matter, simply because it has not declared war on North Korea. In fact, current North Korean sanctions were codified and authorized by Congress in the North Korea Sanctions and Policy Enhancement Act of 2016, which expanded upon the sanctions regime that had already been in place. Virgil Griffith’s alleged acts are not illegal because of a vague characterization of North Korea as being “hostile”, but because Congress explicitly made it illegal to travel to North Korea to give technical advice.
> We live in a country that has the rule of law, you can't just arbitrarily use a vague characterization of a country being "hostile" to abridge the rights of someone.
There is no ambiguity in the classification of North Korea as a hostile regime. Not only there is the fact that the Korean war never ended with a peace treaty an only had an armistice, there is also the hostile and recently degrading relationship that in 2020 escalated to the total elimination of official communication lines between north and south Korea.
There is no ambiguity in the classification of North Korea as a hostile regime. Not only there is the fact that the Korean war never ended with a peace treaty an only had an armistice, there is also the hostile and recently degrading relationship that in 2020 escalated to the total elimination of official communication lines between north and south Korea.
There is indeed no ambiguity with Korea, but there is a worrying spectrum of hostility - from Russia to china to iran. I detest all of those regimes, but we absolutely must be careful about using a vague characterization as a pretense for the our regime to take arbitrary and unjust actions against us citizens that are have family or are doing legitimate businesses there.
> but we absolutely must be careful about using a vague characterization
I should point out that there is nothing vague about sactions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_North_Korea
If a country like the US imposes sanctions on a country which includes, quite prominently, restrictions on investment and financial activities, and afterwards you go out of your way to provide assistance on how to circumvent those restrictions on investment and financial activities... Where's the surprise that your assistance gets you in jail?
I should point out that there is nothing vague about sactions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_North_Korea
If a country like the US imposes sanctions on a country which includes, quite prominently, restrictions on investment and financial activities, and afterwards you go out of your way to provide assistance on how to circumvent those restrictions on investment and financial activities... Where's the surprise that your assistance gets you in jail?
> In 2019 our own President went there to discuss peace.
From thereon the relation between north Korea and south Korea/US degraded so badly that official communication lines between north and south Korea were officially severed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea%E2%80%93South_Kore...
From thereon the relation between north Korea and south Korea/US degraded so badly that official communication lines between north and south Korea were officially severed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea%E2%80%93South_Kore...
You can't sanction publicly available information. By that logic every crypto or blockchain website or video on the internet not blocked in North Korea is guilty of violating the sanctions.
This doesn't make any sense, and I feel really bad for people like Griffith getting ground beneath the treads of the unthinking legal machine here.
And shame on the judges for not slapping this law down, because that's they're job to protect people from unthinking and unfair application of the law.
This doesn't make any sense, and I feel really bad for people like Griffith getting ground beneath the treads of the unthinking legal machine here.
And shame on the judges for not slapping this law down, because that's they're job to protect people from unthinking and unfair application of the law.
> By that logic every crypto or blockchain website or video on the internet not blocked in North Korea is guilty of violating the sanctions.
Making something available on the internet has non-illegal purposes. Specifically flying somewhere that is sanctioned and presenting the information specifically to them has no non-illegal purpose.
If you drop a $20 bill on the street and a member of a terrorist organization picks it up, it's not really funding terrorism just because you didn't explicitly ensure whoever found it was allowed to have it.
If you go find a terrorist organization and give them $20, you've funded terrorism.
Intent matters.
Making something available on the internet has non-illegal purposes. Specifically flying somewhere that is sanctioned and presenting the information specifically to them has no non-illegal purpose.
If you drop a $20 bill on the street and a member of a terrorist organization picks it up, it's not really funding terrorism just because you didn't explicitly ensure whoever found it was allowed to have it.
If you go find a terrorist organization and give them $20, you've funded terrorism.
Intent matters.
Your argument makes a lot of sense. What I don't understand though, is if you share publicly available information, how have you done any harm? How can you have violated sanctions?
Then again if you gave aviation lectures to Al Qaeda after 911, you're definitely doing something wrong, even if it's publicly available information.
Then again if you gave aviation lectures to Al Qaeda after 911, you're definitely doing something wrong, even if it's publicly available information.
> is if you share publicly available information, how have you done any harm?
Even if your assistance adds low-value, it's still assistance.
Moreover, I don't believe it's reasonable to ignore the fact that a renowned Ethereum dev providing assistance to a hostile regime, regardless of how lame, does have a goal of conveying credibility and help push public acceptance. As a similar example, see for example how Snowden was blindsided by a guy trying to leverage Snowden's attendance as a way to buy him credibility.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/epndnz/the-bizarre-case-of-s...
Even if your assistance adds low-value, it's still assistance.
Moreover, I don't believe it's reasonable to ignore the fact that a renowned Ethereum dev providing assistance to a hostile regime, regardless of how lame, does have a goal of conveying credibility and help push public acceptance. As a similar example, see for example how Snowden was blindsided by a guy trying to leverage Snowden's attendance as a way to buy him credibility.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/epndnz/the-bizarre-case-of-s...
It's a terrible what the western government will do to it's own people for power and control.
What is the benefit from those sanctions? Don't they just keep North Korea insular?
I am sorry but to me the wording of your comment seems way too political and biased-sounding for hacker news.
I'm sorry, but what? Their comment to me reads like an objective statement of facts. They don't lean one way or another, or even say if they agrees with it or not. You can't even do that on HN?
Give me six facts about the most honest of men, and I'll have enough to hang them.
Which facts you include and exclude is quite relevant to your bias, politics, etc.
Which facts you include and exclude is quite relevant to your bias, politics, etc.
This is a philosophical slippery slope. The next question is "what are facts?", or "who decides what's immoral?". I'm not interested in going down this because it's pointless.
Reading the original comment, what can construed as "too political" for HN? There wasn't any strong support or opposition.
Reading the original comment, what can construed as "too political" for HN? There wasn't any strong support or opposition.
"The United States invaded Iraq and killed 500,000 innocent people because of the fragile ego of the Bush-Cheney cabal' is an example of:
1. An utterly reprehensible crime against humanity.
2. An accurate fact that's oft-repeated on HN
3. A highly political fact.
4. Utterly pointless to introduce in any conversation that is not closely related to wars.
5. A necessary reminder that our shit stinks.
Despite all that, it's 'too political' to bring it up in a thread like this - because it has nothing to do with the subject, other than to give people a reason to engage in a nationalistic pissing contest.
1. An utterly reprehensible crime against humanity.
2. An accurate fact that's oft-repeated on HN
3. A highly political fact.
4. Utterly pointless to introduce in any conversation that is not closely related to wars.
5. A necessary reminder that our shit stinks.
Despite all that, it's 'too political' to bring it up in a thread like this - because it has nothing to do with the subject, other than to give people a reason to engage in a nationalistic pissing contest.
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I’m not going to defend the craziness of the American Government, but why would you go and do something that their treasury has specifically told you that you were not allowed to do?
Hell, if you’re still dead set on doing what you think is right, why wouldn’t you obtain a different citizenship and abandon your American one first?
America is the world “police” when it wants to be, and as wrong as that is, it’s also something you ignore at your own peril.
Hell, if you’re still dead set on doing what you think is right, why wouldn’t you obtain a different citizenship and abandon your American one first?
America is the world “police” when it wants to be, and as wrong as that is, it’s also something you ignore at your own peril.
Why fight authoritarianism?
Fighting authoritarianism by working with the North Korean government.
How does that work?
How does that work?
How is going to jail for 20 years because a better way of fighting authoritarianism than escaping it?
Yes, it can work, but in order for it to do that, it sort of requires the world to remember you next week. I’m not sure the world even cared this week.
Yes, it can work, but in order for it to do that, it sort of requires the world to remember you next week. I’m not sure the world even cared this week.
It's not just America though; many countries have set and are enforcing sanctions about NK and other countries like Russia and Iran, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_North_Korea for an overview.
TL;DR you should not try and do business or share certain information with certain countries or you violate international sanctions.
TL;DR you should not try and do business or share certain information with certain countries or you violate international sanctions.
We recently had a guy who spend 10 years infiltrating North Korea as part of making a documentary. He did things that were a lot more in violations of our sanctions against North Korea than giving a speech about things that are freely available on YouTube.
He isn’t facing 20 years in jail. Not because we don’t uphold our sanctions, but because our justice system isn’t insane.
He isn’t facing 20 years in jail. Not because we don’t uphold our sanctions, but because our justice system isn’t insane.
Honestly I'm too scared of the US to post criticism now. It seems to become very random whether to be arrested there or not. I don't want to take that risk.
Yeah, same, what if I accidentally end up in North Korea giving a talk on money laundering? It could happen to anyone. I'm petrified.
I'm talking about my relatives logging in to one of my online accounts.
I added 20 hours of flying to one of my work trips to ensure i DIDN'T enter US airspace.
I'm sure that there are plenty of nice people in the US, but that country as a whole is bug F#$% crazy in my mind. I felt safer in Argentina and Ecuador than the thought of going into the US.
I'm sure that there are plenty of nice people in the US, but that country as a whole is bug F#$% crazy in my mind. I felt safer in Argentina and Ecuador than the thought of going into the US.
I can't actually beleive people in this thread are downplaying someone travelling to North Korea to explain to them how to evade economic sancations. This is literally confirming all the worst things people say about crypto-currencies. What's happening in North Korea isn't a joke, we have sanctions for a reason.
It appears some people are still so uneducated about life in north Korea they believe they believe the people can fire up a browser extension and overthrow the government or something.
Alot of people don't WANT to leave either and have been so brainwashed they are terrified of the outside world and believe it is a lawless land filled with gang warfare and burning trashcans, according to one of my friends who got to tour there which is a very rare privilege and outsiders are supervised every moment on a state sponsored tour after being forced to leave flowers at the dictators picture upon landing in North Korea and anyone who refuses to do so before following their sanctioned state sponsored tour (no unsupervised interactions with any citizens is allowed the entire time) is sent back on the plane immediately. The tour guide asked him how he had survived the outside world so long and if he was so relieved to finally be in a safe place when he got on....
I'm not sure the dictator is suddenly going to allow them to download Google chrome and install metamask and pretend he doesn't know what's going on and watch his country be overthrown he would more likely nuke his own people first.
Alot of people don't WANT to leave either and have been so brainwashed they are terrified of the outside world and believe it is a lawless land filled with gang warfare and burning trashcans, according to one of my friends who got to tour there which is a very rare privilege and outsiders are supervised every moment on a state sponsored tour after being forced to leave flowers at the dictators picture upon landing in North Korea and anyone who refuses to do so before following their sanctioned state sponsored tour (no unsupervised interactions with any citizens is allowed the entire time) is sent back on the plane immediately. The tour guide asked him how he had survived the outside world so long and if he was so relieved to finally be in a safe place when he got on....
I'm not sure the dictator is suddenly going to allow them to download Google chrome and install metamask and pretend he doesn't know what's going on and watch his country be overthrown he would more likely nuke his own people first.
Not exactly a sympathetic character...
From Wikipedia: "In 2016, he was fired from the Tor team for attempting to sell de-anonymized Tor2web traffic."
From Wikipedia: "In 2016, he was fired from the Tor team for attempting to sell de-anonymized Tor2web traffic."