Launch HN: HomeBreeze (YC W21) – Easy booking of home repairs
95 comments
I just recently expressed this pain for the first time, so excited to see your service. Some pain points:
1) Scheduling required filling in the same qualification form multiple times, and texting/calling with a rather disorganized office. The better reputed the service company, the bigger mess their schedule is. You're solving this.
2) I didn't have a quote until the people came out to visit. You're solving this.
3) Once the service pros gave quotes, I had to share them with my landlord, have them approve the work, have the service pro complete it, confirm that the issue was fixed, and have the landlord complete payment. Coordinating parties was a major PITA, I hope you solve this in the future.
4) When the service pro diagnosed the issue and gave me a quote, I didn't know whether the diagnosis was truthful, and the quote was reasonable. After the fix, the symptom went away for a bit, and then came back, and the service person tried other fixes. This back and forth was a major pain. I don't know how you'll fix this, maybe a warranty on your service, or an annual insurance plan/maintenance subscription instead? Similar to Forward's model for healthcare - don't make money when you have to fix problems, make money when I don't have problems.
5) Thumbtack had a fixed price service, but it was too large a premium over the more ad hoc services. I hope you keep prices reasonable when you start swallowing more unexpectedly large scoped problems.
1) Scheduling required filling in the same qualification form multiple times, and texting/calling with a rather disorganized office. The better reputed the service company, the bigger mess their schedule is. You're solving this.
2) I didn't have a quote until the people came out to visit. You're solving this.
3) Once the service pros gave quotes, I had to share them with my landlord, have them approve the work, have the service pro complete it, confirm that the issue was fixed, and have the landlord complete payment. Coordinating parties was a major PITA, I hope you solve this in the future.
4) When the service pro diagnosed the issue and gave me a quote, I didn't know whether the diagnosis was truthful, and the quote was reasonable. After the fix, the symptom went away for a bit, and then came back, and the service person tried other fixes. This back and forth was a major pain. I don't know how you'll fix this, maybe a warranty on your service, or an annual insurance plan/maintenance subscription instead? Similar to Forward's model for healthcare - don't make money when you have to fix problems, make money when I don't have problems.
5) Thumbtack had a fixed price service, but it was too large a premium over the more ad hoc services. I hope you keep prices reasonable when you start swallowing more unexpectedly large scoped problems.
Hey, Vineet here, one of the HomeBreeze cofounders. Really appreciate you sharing this. We've seen a lot of #1, #2, and #4. We haven't seen too much with landlords yet and would love to learn more...What kind of unit do you rent (single family, large managed apartment, from a big company or single owner, etc.) And what repair issue did you have?
I'd be down to trade emails to chat live too, if you're open to it - myhomebreeze at gmail
I'd be down to trade emails to chat live too, if you're open to it - myhomebreeze at gmail
Hi guys - glad to see this! I agree it's a huge problem and one that I've felt several times.
The reason why I never book on TaskRabbit or Thumbtack anymore is because there's legitimately an 80% chance that they don't show up. There's no penalty for not showing up or expressing higher availability and just choosing from it.
This means that every repair or home service that I consider is a simple question. Is this worth rebooking multiple times or will I just bite the bullet and try to do it myself.
I would be willing to pay around 1.5 - 2X more than I book for if I had some guarantee - financial or otherwise, that they would show up. Just the ability to construct a simple equation in my head - "is this repair worth $X" in my head without trying to manage the cost of a no-show would be huge and would have me checking the cost of much more small repairs.
The reason why I never book on TaskRabbit or Thumbtack anymore is because there's legitimately an 80% chance that they don't show up. There's no penalty for not showing up or expressing higher availability and just choosing from it.
This means that every repair or home service that I consider is a simple question. Is this worth rebooking multiple times or will I just bite the bullet and try to do it myself.
I would be willing to pay around 1.5 - 2X more than I book for if I had some guarantee - financial or otherwise, that they would show up. Just the ability to construct a simple equation in my head - "is this repair worth $X" in my head without trying to manage the cost of a no-show would be huge and would have me checking the cost of much more small repairs.
Wow that's a high no-show rate! We're major repeat customers for home pros, which gets our jobs prioritized and ultimately gives our homeowner clients great service. Today we don't charge homeowners a premium like that but it's great to know you value the service so highly
What is in it for contractors?
Or to put it another way, what evidence do you have that the market is inefficient?
Or to put it another another way, how will you overcome the fundamental economic rational actor motivation? Qualified tradespeople will prioritize: repeat customers such as real estate companies and landlords; large jobs over small; and high paying work over guaranteed affordable prices.
The best tradespeople are busy serving good clients. The best clients are busy keeping good tradespeople busy. There are business relationships.
The home repair market is a market for lemons on both sides. Inexperienced amateur clients and contractors who can’t stay busy.
Ok. I am sure there might be a longer play. I am curious about that. The “don’t you wish home repair was free” pitch not so much.
Or to put it another way, what evidence do you have that the market is inefficient?
Or to put it another another way, how will you overcome the fundamental economic rational actor motivation? Qualified tradespeople will prioritize: repeat customers such as real estate companies and landlords; large jobs over small; and high paying work over guaranteed affordable prices.
The best tradespeople are busy serving good clients. The best clients are busy keeping good tradespeople busy. There are business relationships.
The home repair market is a market for lemons on both sides. Inexperienced amateur clients and contractors who can’t stay busy.
Ok. I am sure there might be a longer play. I am curious about that. The “don’t you wish home repair was free” pitch not so much.
For tradespeople we're a high value, repeat client. Similar to a large landlord.
>The home repair market is a market for lemons
I thought a good idea would be home owner insurance that provides vetted contractors. So vertical integration.
I thought a good idea would be home owner insurance that provides vetted contractors. So vertical integration.
I home owners insurance that wasn’t a terrible waste of money would be good. Maybe allow for homeowner ratings on services rendered.
Currently home warranties are bad because they provide the worst, cheapest repairs possible; slowly; and reject many things. I would like to have a real home warranty, but tried three companies and they were not good. My favorite was they just couldn’t repair my hvac and said I had to keep paying $75 to send out different repairmen to try to fix it.
Currently home warranties are bad because they provide the worst, cheapest repairs possible; slowly; and reject many things. I would like to have a real home warranty, but tried three companies and they were not good. My favorite was they just couldn’t repair my hvac and said I had to keep paying $75 to send out different repairmen to try to fix it.
I’m not talking about warranty but insurance on structural issues/fire etc…
Home owners insurance claims are often fulfilled by vetted contractors. It is another non-lemon sink that increases the ratio of lemons in the open market for homeowners.
Wow guys well done! It's a ripe area for disruption and I hope you can find the right formula for growth. I'm a homeowner for 5 years now and finding good contractors for small projects has been miserable, every single time.
I actually took on a similar model to yours but for custom metalwork, with Fit to Forge (https://fittoforge.com). There's a huge quality problem and crazy pricing ranges. A lot of the good craftsmen would prefer being able to stay in their shop and build.
In Australia, the recently listed company https://hipagesgroup.com.au/ is a homeowner-contractor 2 sided marketplace business. Home owners offer work, tradies* bid for that work. Seems a similar business already validated Down Under.
* "Tradie" is Australian slang for someone who's gone to trade school and is now qualified as a plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc.
* "Tradie" is Australian slang for someone who's gone to trade school and is now qualified as a plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc.
Guys, here is the issue for this to work. Its HARD to outsource this to other companies to show up because they are all so busy, they are losing their employees and they won't give the service needed. The repair team needs to be all in house.
I'm afraid you're right, if the mission is client satisfaction.
This is why I have built this concept HomeLux.ai, all pro's in-house and focus on Luxury markets in the US. Huge Potential, I'm looking to finance the launch.
There’s so many variable costs associated with contractors.
Things like: - Variable space + material price and quality - Contractors that subcontract out - People lying about their qualifications - Working multiple jobs at once - Breaking things in your house, discovering other problems, follow ups with broken stuff and I could go on.
We bought an absolute lemon of a house and have had everything fixed and while I would love a fixed price service, I just don’t see how it’s possible without at the very least a professional assessing the project virtually ahead of time.
I would love to be wrong and I would pay hundreds per month just for a dedicated solution with fixed rate pricing. I hope you succeed.
Things like: - Variable space + material price and quality - Contractors that subcontract out - People lying about their qualifications - Working multiple jobs at once - Breaking things in your house, discovering other problems, follow ups with broken stuff and I could go on.
We bought an absolute lemon of a house and have had everything fixed and while I would love a fixed price service, I just don’t see how it’s possible without at the very least a professional assessing the project virtually ahead of time.
I would love to be wrong and I would pay hundreds per month just for a dedicated solution with fixed rate pricing. I hope you succeed.
I have never hired a contractor based on anything online or ads, reviews, etc. It's always word of mouth, talking to neighbors and friends, talking to contractors I've been happy with (even if they are in a different trade than I need for the next job, they know people and they can make referrals).
Also in my experience, contractors loathe technology. They work by phone calls and texts at the most.
Also in my experience, contractors loathe technology. They work by phone calls and texts at the most.
Literally thought about this two hours ago as a huge market with huge potential. Look at what Compass did for realtors/home buyers/sellers and then apply something similar to electricians, plumbers etc etc. Big big big money. Congrats! And good luck!
So are you acting as a general? Like are you providing the parts and marking up the labor?
Big Problem and the construction market is Huge! Looking to connect with you all.
Why start with water heaters?
No connection, but a theoretical customer. Water heaters are a periodic replacement item where the scope of the job is (relatively) fixed. Periodic means enough search volume/demand. Fixed scope means it’s possible to estimate without a site visit.
I can do a water heater in copper in a little over an hour and a half on-site. I might spend more time figuring out which water heater will fit and be best for me and going to pick it up than I will soldering or moving the heaters around.
I can do a water heater in copper in a little over an hour and a half on-site. I might spend more time figuring out which water heater will fit and be best for me and going to pick it up than I will soldering or moving the heaters around.
Longest part is waiting for the old one to drain.
I ask this and 5 days later I have to replace my water heater smh.
This is a good idea and I wish you well. I would encourage you to think of gender in your marketing. Unfortunately there is a lot of sexism in home repairs, and I think many women would benefit from your service. I (a male) have several times had to get quotes for my mother (single), because she either can't get a good price or contractors will tell her she wants something else, or fail to see problems that need fixing. This could provide a bit more of a level playing field for women in this situation.
We want to level the playing field!! Similar to your experience, we've seen too many examples of homeowners receiving different prices or treatment based on gender, socioeconomic status, or other factors that have nothing to do with the underlying service. HomeBreeze eliminates this for our customers.
> there is a lot of sexism in home repairs
My wife did bathroom remodeling for a bit last year; she got some incredibly stupid examples of that from both customers and contractors, stuff you'd expect in a kindergarten. One of her contractors sent messages to others in the business in two counties about her employing a black man and how it would lower the standards of the trade to work with her.
Both my wife and her employee had known these people (the local contractors) for years from serving them at a hardware store, but going from retail clerk to independent business in their area made it an entirely different thing.
My wife did bathroom remodeling for a bit last year; she got some incredibly stupid examples of that from both customers and contractors, stuff you'd expect in a kindergarten. One of her contractors sent messages to others in the business in two counties about her employing a black man and how it would lower the standards of the trade to work with her.
Both my wife and her employee had known these people (the local contractors) for years from serving them at a hardware store, but going from retail clerk to independent business in their area made it an entirely different thing.
I really dig the idea, but I wonder - how can you guarantee prices? Homes can differ tremendously. There's a reason plumbers ask to come on site.
For example front and center is a fixed price tankless heater, which is great. However if the customer has serious plumbing issues which have caused the existing (tank) water heater to fail (for the example corroded pipes), if you replace just the water heater without fixing the underlying issues it could cause the new tankless heater to fail by introducing sediment, etc. into the system.
In the software world this would be akin to asking a contractor to add a new feature to your site without seeing the existing codebase. Seems difficult.
Are y'all just amortizing the cost of these things across all customers or what?
For example front and center is a fixed price tankless heater, which is great. However if the customer has serious plumbing issues which have caused the existing (tank) water heater to fail (for the example corroded pipes), if you replace just the water heater without fixing the underlying issues it could cause the new tankless heater to fail by introducing sediment, etc. into the system.
In the software world this would be akin to asking a contractor to add a new feature to your site without seeing the existing codebase. Seems difficult.
Are y'all just amortizing the cost of these things across all customers or what?
Homes with majors issues like that have been extremely rare in our experience. When they come up, we've been able to catch them early (at least so far). In the future situation where we miss it, we have some back stops with our scope of work agreements. We would be okay eating losses in a lot of situations, to your point about taking a portfolio approach, and then updating our approach to avoid repeating those mistakes. This was something that worked well at Opendoor (buying/selling houses), where I previously worked.
We haven't met service professionals who have the capability to do that directly, but doing so delivers a much, much better homeowner experience.
We haven't met service professionals who have the capability to do that directly, but doing so delivers a much, much better homeowner experience.
Great idea, but it comes across as trying to peddle water heaters, not connecting me with service pros. Remember, the value of your service is connecting homeowners with reliable contractors. Maybe the product focus is a side product of your biz model.
Totally agree, thanks for the feedback! We're trying to find the right balance on leaning into the connection point and demonstrating expertise within categories, and we still have work to do there.
A problem highlighted by Uber Eats (etc.) is that when technology comes into an existing market it can distort things by using heaps of Venture Capital that isn't available to the businesses who deliver the actual service to customers. Do you worry that by offering price guarantees ("We honor our online prices, even if it means taking a loss.") you may end up in a similar situation? You're more agency than marketplace, so this is especially relevant.
My understanding is that the reason prices are so unpredictable is because the work is so unpredictable: if you're guaranteeing a fixed cost on a job that then balloons in complexity, then the costs you incur are going to wipe out your margin on dozens of other jobs... but because you're growing in revenue you'll be able to keep raising capital to keep subsidising these exploding costs until at some point it becomes impossible to continue.
You speak about a system that can take inputs and price a job fairly, which sounds great in theory, but if "a system that can price jobs fairly" becomes your white whale, and you're forever subsidising bad jobs, what do you think about the impact on the independent service providers when the music stops?
I think this is a great idea and has a lot of potential to deliver value for consumers and contractors, so this comment isn't a challenge against the idea, rather I'm curious about how you're thinking about your responsibility to the service providers that have hitched their wagon to yours if things don't go to plan.
My understanding is that the reason prices are so unpredictable is because the work is so unpredictable: if you're guaranteeing a fixed cost on a job that then balloons in complexity, then the costs you incur are going to wipe out your margin on dozens of other jobs... but because you're growing in revenue you'll be able to keep raising capital to keep subsidising these exploding costs until at some point it becomes impossible to continue.
You speak about a system that can take inputs and price a job fairly, which sounds great in theory, but if "a system that can price jobs fairly" becomes your white whale, and you're forever subsidising bad jobs, what do you think about the impact on the independent service providers when the music stops?
I think this is a great idea and has a lot of potential to deliver value for consumers and contractors, so this comment isn't a challenge against the idea, rather I'm curious about how you're thinking about your responsibility to the service providers that have hitched their wagon to yours if things don't go to plan.
We had a lot of those concerns too. We're here to build a sustainable business (really the only kind of business). We have zero interest in hyperscaling something that isn't viable. We started with categories with minimal tail risk (for example, we're not doing whole home construction), and have had good success. We also limit our exposure through agreements on scope.
Imagining myself approaching the contractor end: why do I need this? There's more work than I can hire people to do, right now; and this looks a lot like "commit to an open ended job, unseen, for a fixed price."
NFI what happened to it, but I recall hearing of a Lowe's "official" effort to try to assemble something like this; they theoretically have the resources to find and keep good relationships with local stables of contractors; but in practice.. no, that's not gonna happen, its gonna be a boondoggle.
But where's your "have a beer with these guys" level of trust in someone's crew? You're proxying that to the homeowners, so I'm curious what you plan to do there, especially as it grows past personal relationship scales.
NFI what happened to it, but I recall hearing of a Lowe's "official" effort to try to assemble something like this; they theoretically have the resources to find and keep good relationships with local stables of contractors; but in practice.. no, that's not gonna happen, its gonna be a boondoggle.
But where's your "have a beer with these guys" level of trust in someone's crew? You're proxying that to the homeowners, so I'm curious what you plan to do there, especially as it grows past personal relationship scales.
> NFI what happened to it, but I recall hearing of a Lowe's "official" effort to try to assemble something like this; they theoretically have the resources to find and keep good relationships with local stables of contractors; but in practice.. no, that's not gonna happen, its gonna be a boondoggle.
Lowe's does this. It's not a boondoggle. Works out well in many cases because they can sell for example windows and the install at once.
https://www.lowes.com/l/lowes-home-services.html
Lowe's does this. It's not a boondoggle. Works out well in many cases because they can sell for example windows and the install at once.
https://www.lowes.com/l/lowes-home-services.html
The contractors who love us are small, independent shops who are great at their craft, but not great at sales & marketing. Unlike lead-gen services, we send them jobs with defined scope and payment. We need to be really good at scoping because if we botch it, then we take liability for that rather than putting it on the contractor. We've had contractors hire more people to their team and buy additional service trucks, purely based on the volume we send them.
Scaling will be a lot of complex work but we've built systems like that in the past at UberEats, where Chris was one of the first GMs, and at Opendoor (largest homebuyer in the US).
Scaling will be a lot of complex work but we've built systems like that in the past at UberEats, where Chris was one of the first GMs, and at Opendoor (largest homebuyer in the US).
That sounds good, and I certainly wish yall luck, there's definitely need for the service. I've heard (and seen) very little good from the existing efforts, which seem to be mostly focused on selling contractors access to database entries made up from whole cloth in foreign call centers.
(Tip for people looking at those: rural zipcodes are great canaries for fake data, "we've done work at $Neighbor's house" is a good brag, except when the house burned down 5 years ago and wasnt the one in the picture)
(Tip for people looking at those: rural zipcodes are great canaries for fake data, "we've done work at $Neighbor's house" is a good brag, except when the house burned down 5 years ago and wasnt the one in the picture)
A problem in the home services space is large, new work/replace jobs usually supersede smaller repair jobs. For example, "fix my deck stairs" is going to probably be much lower on a list of jobs from "build me a new deck". I assume this is because the build a deck job is much more predictable and profitable. How will your service operate for repair work that is unpredictable?
"enforce strict quality standards" - This sounds good but there are also local municipal codes that work has to adhere to, sometimes where a repair job has to bring something up to current code standards as part of the work. How will your service ensure contractors are doing this?
Regarding the quality part, say someone passes the quality test before/after photos, etc. and "fixes" someones deck but it later collapses because of faulty work (using improper screws that can't handle load) and someone is severely injured or worse. Are you legally structured where the liability remains with contractors?
"enforce strict quality standards" - This sounds good but there are also local municipal codes that work has to adhere to, sometimes where a repair job has to bring something up to current code standards as part of the work. How will your service ensure contractors are doing this?
Regarding the quality part, say someone passes the quality test before/after photos, etc. and "fixes" someones deck but it later collapses because of faulty work (using improper screws that can't handle load) and someone is severely injured or worse. Are you legally structured where the liability remains with contractors?
Initially we're focusing on a set of services that we can define well, some of these were previously considered "unpredictable".
The contractor takes on the liability, just like any other job. As part of our quality standards, all work needs to be up to code. We ingest the local code standards and include those in our quality controls. The controls are pretty rigorous, down to the specific materials used in jobs, including tracking the purchase, pickup, and usage of those materials.
The contractor takes on the liability, just like any other job. As part of our quality standards, all work needs to be up to code. We ingest the local code standards and include those in our quality controls. The controls are pretty rigorous, down to the specific materials used in jobs, including tracking the purchase, pickup, and usage of those materials.
"Fix my deck stairs" is basically a handyman job. So you'd look for someone like that. My local ACE hardware provides that service.
As a homeowner for 8+ years, this is a HUGE problem. Like really huge. Companies like thumbtack, home advisor, angie's list, craigslist etc are mostly not useful (I have tried them all). I hope you guys succeed.
The issue is however not just about price or cost. It is mostly about finding reliable, knowledge and honest contractors which for some reason is not that easy.
The great contractors are usually very busy already. They don't have a "need to generate leads" problem. The best way to find them is word of mouth. If someone can figure out a way to collect this information (for example we have people asking on nextdoor and facebook local groups), it will be a gold mine.
The issue is however not just about price or cost. It is mostly about finding reliable, knowledge and honest contractors which for some reason is not that easy.
The great contractors are usually very busy already. They don't have a "need to generate leads" problem. The best way to find them is word of mouth. If someone can figure out a way to collect this information (for example we have people asking on nextdoor and facebook local groups), it will be a gold mine.
The market is efficient. Good contractors have good clients and work on good jobs. They have B2B business relationships.
It is a two sided market for lemons. The contractors are mostly contacted by lemon customers. Mostly lemon contractors are likely to respond.
What makes homeowners lemon customers besides price sensitivity and non-repeating projects is inexperience.
Construction scheduling is in NP. Professionals subjectively incorporate that into their expectations with experience and the experience is often at the institutional level. Weather delays, materials shortages, slow owner decision making, things hidden behind drywall, bad soil underground, etc etc. The second ’etc’ because any of these things on someone else’s job affects your job.
Nobody who has been around the rodeo actually believes it will be done in time for Christmas. Maybe Memorial Day if you are lucky. But Labor Day just to be safer.
It is a two sided market for lemons. The contractors are mostly contacted by lemon customers. Mostly lemon contractors are likely to respond.
What makes homeowners lemon customers besides price sensitivity and non-repeating projects is inexperience.
Construction scheduling is in NP. Professionals subjectively incorporate that into their expectations with experience and the experience is often at the institutional level. Weather delays, materials shortages, slow owner decision making, things hidden behind drywall, bad soil underground, etc etc. The second ’etc’ because any of these things on someone else’s job affects your job.
Nobody who has been around the rodeo actually believes it will be done in time for Christmas. Maybe Memorial Day if you are lucky. But Labor Day just to be safer.
This is basically a better version of what I came here to say. I worked in a family construction business, and my perspective / experiencr is that good, established contractors do no advertising and have years of backlog (at least for custom homes or major renovations). I like how you define two markets, that's how I have seen it. There are people that are looking for quality and have the experience to know what to look for and what to pay in terms of money and patience, and there are those that watched a show about how to negotiate with your contractor and get three quotes, etc. Ironically, you usually pay less with a good contractor because you're paying for work and not marketing.
I've seen different variations on the "connect you with a contractor" business model, and to me they don't work because good contractors are not a commodity. There is definitely a class of contractor that will go for this, but they are always the worst ones because if they were better they would be loaded up with work without having to pay in to a service that takes a cut from them.
For very routine jobs, this kind of service is provable fine. Like ordering McDonald's from uber eats. And this appears to be what they are initially targeting.
I've seen different variations on the "connect you with a contractor" business model, and to me they don't work because good contractors are not a commodity. There is definitely a class of contractor that will go for this, but they are always the worst ones because if they were better they would be loaded up with work without having to pay in to a service that takes a cut from them.
For very routine jobs, this kind of service is provable fine. Like ordering McDonald's from uber eats. And this appears to be what they are initially targeting.
Home Depot and Lowe’s already offer service in the market segment. They advertise fixed prices but their affiliates don’t take on projects with unusual conditions. And sometimes never provide a quote because they are busy.
There is always an unmet demand for below market rate services. Always a demand for work with infeasible economics.
The construction market is highly efficient. Competitive bidding is normative.
There is always an unmet demand for below market rate services. Always a demand for work with infeasible economics.
The construction market is highly efficient. Competitive bidding is normative.
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This is the right take. Home projects are not like, say, Uber where the primary quality criterion is essentially getting a person to point B in a reasonable time frame, so easily measurable.
Brokering this kind of work is much tougher, with far more variables for quality/success and more room for subjectivity along with some lag time between the work and ability to fully measure quality. I suspect the founders here will find that the very reasons it's a problem for customers are the reasons it will be a problem for them. There is no shortage of bad contractors willing to charge for their work, and the good ones don't need to share their cut to get work.
So, they've absolutely identified a significant homeowner challenge, but their solution seems a bit naive. As another example, auditing photos for quality is unreliable and doesn't scale with project complexity. Yet, if you start to go further in auditing (e.g. on-site auditors) or otherwise guaranteeing and allocating work, then you've essentially re-invented subcontracting (perhaps even more akin to employment). I think they are also vastly underestimating their exposure in guaranteeing this type of work, especially for a small firm. Just arbitrating disputes alone can be a massive resource drain, and that doesn't include the actual remedy (and who pays for that remedy?).
And, of course, the Home Depots and Lowe's of the world already do something similar, with variable results. Hard to see where the real value-added differentiator is here, outside of the lack of brick and mortar.
I do hope they have an epiphany on their journey that leads them to a solution.
Brokering this kind of work is much tougher, with far more variables for quality/success and more room for subjectivity along with some lag time between the work and ability to fully measure quality. I suspect the founders here will find that the very reasons it's a problem for customers are the reasons it will be a problem for them. There is no shortage of bad contractors willing to charge for their work, and the good ones don't need to share their cut to get work.
So, they've absolutely identified a significant homeowner challenge, but their solution seems a bit naive. As another example, auditing photos for quality is unreliable and doesn't scale with project complexity. Yet, if you start to go further in auditing (e.g. on-site auditors) or otherwise guaranteeing and allocating work, then you've essentially re-invented subcontracting (perhaps even more akin to employment). I think they are also vastly underestimating their exposure in guaranteeing this type of work, especially for a small firm. Just arbitrating disputes alone can be a massive resource drain, and that doesn't include the actual remedy (and who pays for that remedy?).
And, of course, the Home Depots and Lowe's of the world already do something similar, with variable results. Hard to see where the real value-added differentiator is here, outside of the lack of brick and mortar.
I do hope they have an epiphany on their journey that leads them to a solution.
Interesting... HomeBreeze has quickly become an important B2B relationship for the home pros we work with. Although a lot of what you're describing is for construction, which we don't serve, your comment makes me think that we could be giving homeowners access to great contractors who they wouldn't be able to otherwise access.
Installing water heaters is, as you know, construction.
Giving homeowners access to average contractors is a step up. Hard times are the measure of relationships.
In your case it will be when you have to choose one side of the market’s interests over the other.
Ultimately, vetting of customers is necessary. That’s equilibrium. The supply of sweet lemons is limited.
Giving homeowners access to average contractors is a step up. Hard times are the measure of relationships.
In your case it will be when you have to choose one side of the market’s interests over the other.
Ultimately, vetting of customers is necessary. That’s equilibrium. The supply of sweet lemons is limited.
Can confirm the 2-sided lemon market exists in the UK. Sites like ratedpeople.com will efficiently connect you with absolute chancers who will make an excellent mess of any task.
The only way to get any kind of basic quality assurance is either to do it yourself, or to find a referral to a reputable pro via word of mouth, often having to wait months for their next available slot.
The only way to get any kind of basic quality assurance is either to do it yourself, or to find a referral to a reputable pro via word of mouth, often having to wait months for their next available slot.
I couldn't agree more. As far as I am concerned this problem remains completely unsolved. I've had very bad experiences with Angi, HomeAdvisor (which now looks to be owned by Angi), Yelp and NextDoor recommendations. Finding good contractors is so hard I've changed to doing as much work myself as I possibly can.
I've had great experiences with contractors recommended to me by other people on NextDoor.
Thumbtack is a dumpster fire.
Thumbtack is a dumpster fire.
Spot on. It’s all about trust, which in this context means getting the offering honest scoping & pricing, completing work as promised, and doing quality work. Contractors who deliver that trusted experience already are usually booked up and hard to get hold of when you need them.
We’re betting that more contractors can achieve those same standards in our structure, and we can deliver better availability and consistent trust to homeowners.
We’re betting that more contractors can achieve those same standards in our structure, and we can deliver better availability and consistent trust to homeowners.
Exactly. It's sometimes hard to just get someone on the phone willing to take your money. You leave a message and they won't even bother to return your call. When you finally talk to someone they're either booked for the next four months, or they are just not really all that interested in doing your small job.
You think that the type of contractor who is already unreliable will be do better having to log into an app to do things, than literally answer a call or text from their phone!?
We need to unpack what makes someone “unreliable” because we’ve found every single contractor runs late, ghosts some leads, misses some scopes, etc. The root cause is that it’s a complex job to manage and they may not excel at those small business tasks, despite having excellent craftsmanship.
We simplify their job. Normally they would have to field leads, visit homes to scope jobs, find suppliers who can deliver the right parts, figure out a price, convince customers to choose them, and then balance that with their other projects. Instead, we send them fully scoped jobs, parts pre-ordered and ready for pick up, customers already scheduled, and more. We do a lot behind the scenes to take that burden off their shoulders, and let them focus on doing great work.
We simplify their job. Normally they would have to field leads, visit homes to scope jobs, find suppliers who can deliver the right parts, figure out a price, convince customers to choose them, and then balance that with their other projects. Instead, we send them fully scoped jobs, parts pre-ordered and ready for pick up, customers already scheduled, and more. We do a lot behind the scenes to take that burden off their shoulders, and let them focus on doing great work.
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I think the big unreliability I have seen, and often hear people complain about is, work gets done 90% of the way then they just basically stop showing up. Or some of the work is bad, and they have no desire to show back up and fix it.
I guess the issue being that, it is more profitable to ghost them. Is HomeBreeze going to insure the jobs?
I guess the issue being that, it is more profitable to ghost them. Is HomeBreeze going to insure the jobs?
We’ve seen similar things for general contractors and construction, which is a market we don’t yet serve. Today we target jobs that are completed within one day. We find our jobs get prioritized because we drive material volume to contractors.
My brother is an honest contractor in the Bay Area and he gets called several times per day by potential clients. The problem is that he can't scale to meet demand because of a dire shortage of labor and subcontractors (painters in particular at the moment). The contractors that will answer your call and give you an estimate tend to be what he calls "paper contractors" that don't have their own crew and subcontract out everything. These are the jobs that end up taking two years where there never seems to be anyone actually working. I don't think matching technology can fix the market -- what's needed is efficiency gains on the contractor side as well as some way to increase the labor pool.
Is he...reasonably honest?
(asking because as a bit of trivia, there's an SF handyman named Reasonably Honest Mike who's both hilarious and effective. http://reasonablemike.com/about.html)
(asking because as a bit of trivia, there's an SF handyman named Reasonably Honest Mike who's both hilarious and effective. http://reasonablemike.com/about.html)
What type of contracting does your brother do? We see what you’re describing with general contractors but rarely with plumbers who are our initial focus
Mostly kitchen and bathroom remodeling.
For some reason, plumbing is one of the few types of work where it doesn't seem to be as hard to find someone (at least in the Bay Area). Unless, as happened recently to me, you have a leaking shower drain in which case you are completely hosed.
For some reason, plumbing is one of the few types of work where it doesn't seem to be as hard to find someone (at least in the Bay Area). Unless, as happened recently to me, you have a leaking shower drain in which case you are completely hosed.
It's especially difficult to find licensed and bonded contractors and handymen who won't straight up ghost a project.
We found that Angie’s List was useful, until it became popular. Then too many people started using it and less reputable people started gaming the system, and then it all went down the toilet.
Same with Craigslist before that.
I would say that the same sort of problem will occur with all these services, unless you can bring new functionality to the problem where you can guarantee the level and quality and speed of service.
See also “tragedy of the commons”.
Same with Craigslist before that.
I would say that the same sort of problem will occur with all these services, unless you can bring new functionality to the problem where you can guarantee the level and quality and speed of service.
See also “tragedy of the commons”.
We have a few ideas on how to manage this but totally agree that maintaining quality is critical (and hard!)
How do you plan on getting professionals on your platform, I feel you'll have issues there
Great question! We're early, but so far, we're adding pros mostly through referrals and cold calls.
Our pitch is rather than charge for leads, we directly give our pros jobs, and deal with all customer acquisition, customer service and payment. That means they can spend 0% of their time on sales & job scoping, and only need to accept the jobs when they can fit them into their schedule. So far it seems to be resonating, but it's early.
Our pitch is rather than charge for leads, we directly give our pros jobs, and deal with all customer acquisition, customer service and payment. That means they can spend 0% of their time on sales & job scoping, and only need to accept the jobs when they can fit them into their schedule. So far it seems to be resonating, but it's early.
I’m a home owner and this was by far the largest shock to owning a home. Good contractors are not busy looking for work, they are busy with a backlog. It was only after building personal relationships with the contractors that I could get reliable service.
Wishing you all the best for this to succeed, but from my perspective you should be trying to free up contractors to focus on work as much as you are trying to connect home owners with them. Contractors are certainly limited supply and high demand.
Wishing you all the best for this to succeed, but from my perspective you should be trying to free up contractors to focus on work as much as you are trying to connect home owners with them. Contractors are certainly limited supply and high demand.
Totally agree that we need to make top contractors happy. We're building a way for them to not have to deal with the "running a small business" tasks that can eat up a huge chunk of their time and that many (most?) don't enjoy. It frees them up to spend more time doing their trade and, hopefully, earn more.
I’ve used a similar app (Jiffy) and it’s awesome. Payment is fixed hourly and goes through the app so no money is exchanged with the contractor. Got my dishwasher fixed next day no problem.
Good luck guys it’s a good market to be in
Good luck guys it’s a good market to be in
Good to know. So much room for innovation in this market. Appreciate the support!
Let me add a bit of advice to any homeowners out there: learn to do the job yourself! I bought my house 5 years ago and I went from zero knowledge to remodeling the entire thing mostly on my own. Not only does it save you the hassle of having to deal with contractors, but in the cases when you need one, you'll be a lot more prepared to gauge the quote and timing.
You can't learn it all. Some things are better left to professionals. I once had a leaking bathtub. I watched some youtube videos and was able to fix the problem (replacing a gasket). However, one time my HVAC stopped working in the middle of winter and I wouldn't know what to do there. Had to call in pros. few days ago, I had a yellow jacket nest in one of the ceilings (yep!!). I wouldn't want to fix that myself.
> one time my HVAC stopped working in the middle of winter and I wouldn't know what to do there.
I thought so too, until a HVAC outfit ghosted me one too many times. All I had was a screwdriver and multimeter in hand. I was able to figure out that the power transformer was taking in 110v but putting out 0v into the board. So I googled the part number, picked it up at Home Depot and just un-mounted it and swapped the new one in attaching the wires in the same way. Easy peasy! It really was a lot easier than I thought. Just remember to take pictures of the wiring before.
I thought so too, until a HVAC outfit ghosted me one too many times. All I had was a screwdriver and multimeter in hand. I was able to figure out that the power transformer was taking in 110v but putting out 0v into the board. So I googled the part number, picked it up at Home Depot and just un-mounted it and swapped the new one in attaching the wires in the same way. Easy peasy! It really was a lot easier than I thought. Just remember to take pictures of the wiring before.
For sure, agree!
Guys, you are onto the same thing I want to solve as a real estate developer. Take a look at HomeLux.ai
We should connect and chat about this market place.
David [email protected]
David [email protected]
Great! Will reach out
I will use this when you go live in the Bay Area.
Side note: I would also pay for a "Landlord as a Service". I want to treat a company like my landlord, even though I own my house. "Hi Bill, my roof is leaking" and they say "Someone will be there next week" and then send me a bill.
Side note: I would also pay for a "Landlord as a Service". I want to treat a company like my landlord, even though I own my house. "Hi Bill, my roof is leaking" and they say "Someone will be there next week" and then send me a bill.
I (American) started an extremely similar VC-backed business in Germany. We were focused on car maintenance and detailing, but otherwise we had the same business model that you describe: our major selling point was upfront, fixed pricing without a diagnostic appointed, supplied by a network of independent mechanics and backed by a guarantee. We also had a sister company who focused on home services, although their initial market entry point was paint jobs.
I think this is a very viable business model that can provide tremendous value to consumers. If you guys want to chat, shoot me a DM — I’d be happy to share my experience.
I think this is a very viable business model that can provide tremendous value to consumers. If you guys want to chat, shoot me a DM — I’d be happy to share my experience.
Were you able to raise VC money easily for this? I have created this concept here - HomeLux.ai where the idea is to bring all the people in-house
Vineet, one of the cofounders here. Would love to chat! Don’t see your contact info anywhere - could you email myhomebreeze at gmail?
Sent!
what’s the name of the sister company? is it available in English? (as a non German speaker in Berlin I have an even bigger problem finding crafts people, let alone negotiate or explain the problem or repair job… but I guess that’s a lot to ask)
p.s. there’s no way to DM on hacker news, unless you leave some details on your profile.
p.s. there’s no way to DM on hacker news, unless you leave some details on your profile.
Oh, I didn’t realize that, thanks for the headsup.
The sister company was named Homebell, but I don’t think they’re in business anymore.
I used in live in Berlin too, and yes, figuring these things out without knowing German is probably very difficult. Honestly, I think your best bet is probably to ask a German-speaking friend for help.
The sister company was named Homebell, but I don’t think they’re in business anymore.
I used in live in Berlin too, and yes, figuring these things out without knowing German is probably very difficult. Honestly, I think your best bet is probably to ask a German-speaking friend for help.
oh what happened to them?
yeah we get help, but it obviously adds one more link to an already tricky chain trying to find and coordinate home repair jobs, plumbing etc
yeah we get help, but it obviously adds one more link to an already tricky chain trying to find and coordinate home repair jobs, plumbing etc
Many homeowners struggle to find contractors who will provide quality work without gouging them on price. They burn hours of time contacting pros and hosting onsite scoping visits, just to get prices and availability—with little insight on quality. Lead generation platforms like Angi and Thumbtack only solve a narrow slice of the problem - finding pros - without helping to price, schedule, or guarantee work quality.
For contractors, it’s hard to manage lead generation and sales, while spending most of the day in the field, doing work. To grow their business, contractors often buy expensive leads from Angi, HomeAdvisor, Thumbtack and more, but convert those leads poorly because of their unreliable communication. Because of the high stakes, they spend nights and weekends following up to sales calls. Great for the lead generation platforms, but bad for both service pros and homeowners.
Chris bought his first home and experienced this first-hand. Quotes to paint the outside of the house ranged from $7K to $25K and getting painters to show up for quotes took hours across dozens of phone calls and text messages. Digging into the problem, we found complex operations and a fragmented, old-school market. I had worked at Opendoor and Chris at UberEats for years, so we were no strangers to operational complexity. We decided to build the solution.
With just a little bit of information from homeowners, we give them upfront, honest prices for water heater installations (and soon other home services). They can schedule online if they’d like to move forward. Nearly all service pros we talk with insist on scheduling an on-site visit before providing prices. Our clients can avoid this time-consuming step and almost always get better prices.
On the backend, we’ve built a system that takes those inputs and prices jobs fairly, based on criteria we’ve gotten from our network of service professionals. We match the jobs with the plumbers who we know are available to do them. Importantly, we enforce strict quality standards by remotely auditing before/after photos of the installation, aligning contractors to our quality principles before their first job with us, and verifying that every plumber in our network is licensed and insured.
I’m sure every homeowner in this community has had their own experiences with home services. We’ve love to hear about them - the good and the bad - and get feedback on our initial approach.