Google Co-Founder Larry Page Allowed into New Zealand Despite Closed Border(ndtv.com)
ndtv.com
Google Co-Founder Larry Page Allowed into New Zealand Despite Closed Border
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/google-co-founder-larry-page-allowed-into-new-zealand-despite-closed-border-2503055
151 comments
You're confused by the fact that people are fed up with various elites pushing for restrictive policies, then routinely bypassing and ignoring those policies when it comes to their personal lives? What is so confusing here?
This is a medevac flight and Auckland is the closest major city to where he was located. It's not clear that he's being treated differently than other people would be in the same situation.
The article claims he is.
>It's not clear that he's being treated differently than other people would be in the same situation.
Empathy and benefit of the doubt for billionaires who vacation in Fiji and whose kids get a medevac flight to a major city when something goes wrong would look a bit more sane if those were commonly afforded to normal people as well. Which they aren't.
Empathy and benefit of the doubt for billionaires who vacation in Fiji and whose kids get a medevac flight to a major city when something goes wrong would look a bit more sane if those were commonly afforded to normal people as well. Which they aren't.
If the guy was going there for a vacation, yes I would 100% agree with your sentiment. But from the story it sounds like his son had to be medivaced from Fiji.
Since this is a medical emergency I would imagine that they would grant this to whoever, not just Page.
Since this is a medical emergency I would imagine that they would grant this to whoever, not just Page.
Yes. Im sure they charter 4200 kilometer medevac flights for anybody, while country is on total lock down, and the emergency is so urgent whole thing takes >24 hours before the flight even takes off.
>“The day after the application was received, a New Zealand air ambulance staffed by a New Zealand ICU nurse-escort medevaced the child and an adult family member from Fiji to New Zealand,”
https://apnews.com/article/technology-lifestyle-travel-new-z...
Reminder, Sydney is merely 1 hour extra flight time away and borders were wide open in January.
>“The day after the application was received, a New Zealand air ambulance staffed by a New Zealand ICU nurse-escort medevaced the child and an adult family member from Fiji to New Zealand,”
https://apnews.com/article/technology-lifestyle-travel-new-z...
Reminder, Sydney is merely 1 hour extra flight time away and borders were wide open in January.
Never take a statement from Larry Page that his kid is sick and he needs to move to NZ at face value. Larry has a long history of exploiting the law to get what he wants. Also, he could have returned to the US, it's not like flying to NZ suddenly saved his kid where going to the US couldn't have.
Why is it anyone's business where he decides to go and take his kid? That's his personal life...
His presence in Fiji was already controversial as he entered Fiji via his wealth, even as the country closed its borders to traditional travelers. It was on the basis of
"medical donations" as reported by the press.
Nobody here would want to endanger the life of a 12 year old and hopefully his child is doing fine now.
It has been reported by the press, several times, he was spending most his time at the remote Island of Tavarua with both a 12 year and another child of 10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavarua
The main resort there will ask you to sign this waiver who says between other things:
"...I understand that the Island of Tavarua is a remote, undeveloped island. Further, I understand that the Released Parties do not provide medical services and that medical facilities do not exist on the Island of Tavarua. If I am injured, I understand that I will have to be transported to mainland Fiji to receive medical services and that the Released Parties do not provide such transportation..."
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58f5426737c581de8a8d7...
The main issue is that the NZ government, under the excuse of privacy, did not make it clear if this was really an emergency and his child needed urgent medical care, or just needed medical care not available at Fiji and a billionaire could not be bothered to return back to his country or to Australia who had easier entry requirements, and was roughly at the same distance.
The fact that it was a air medvac that not says much. It was not disclosed if it was an airplane with special medical facilities or just Larry Page private jet. It was only mentioned a request was received January 11, 2021 no comment on how much time it took to approve it and when the flight actually happened.
I am sure any journalist worth it's salt should be able to track easily any medvac Auckland - Fiji flights on 11, 12 or later days. If the flight happened a few days after the approval, then it was just planned medical care not available in Fiji.
If he really loves Fiji so much, maybe he can help donate an Hospital, sounds like they really need it, and its probably pocket change:
"UN's Fiji medical evacuation flight unfair, says human rights advocate" https://www.stuff.co.nz/tarana/125963687/uns-fiji-medical-ev...
Nobody here would want to endanger the life of a 12 year old and hopefully his child is doing fine now.
It has been reported by the press, several times, he was spending most his time at the remote Island of Tavarua with both a 12 year and another child of 10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavarua
The main resort there will ask you to sign this waiver who says between other things:
"...I understand that the Island of Tavarua is a remote, undeveloped island. Further, I understand that the Released Parties do not provide medical services and that medical facilities do not exist on the Island of Tavarua. If I am injured, I understand that I will have to be transported to mainland Fiji to receive medical services and that the Released Parties do not provide such transportation..."
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58f5426737c581de8a8d7...
The main issue is that the NZ government, under the excuse of privacy, did not make it clear if this was really an emergency and his child needed urgent medical care, or just needed medical care not available at Fiji and a billionaire could not be bothered to return back to his country or to Australia who had easier entry requirements, and was roughly at the same distance.
The fact that it was a air medvac that not says much. It was not disclosed if it was an airplane with special medical facilities or just Larry Page private jet. It was only mentioned a request was received January 11, 2021 no comment on how much time it took to approve it and when the flight actually happened.
I am sure any journalist worth it's salt should be able to track easily any medvac Auckland - Fiji flights on 11, 12 or later days. If the flight happened a few days after the approval, then it was just planned medical care not available in Fiji.
If he really loves Fiji so much, maybe he can help donate an Hospital, sounds like they really need it, and its probably pocket change:
"UN's Fiji medical evacuation flight unfair, says human rights advocate" https://www.stuff.co.nz/tarana/125963687/uns-fiji-medical-ev...
“The day after the application was received, a New Zealand air ambulance staffed by a New Zealand ICU nurse-escort medevaced the child and an adult family member from Fiji to New Zealand,” https://apnews.com/article/technology-lifestyle-travel-new-z...
Willing to wait extra 24 hours instead of flying straight to Australia, doesnt sound like emergency.
Willing to wait extra 24 hours instead of flying straight to Australia, doesnt sound like emergency.
And...not do a little of Bellingcat style, but this looks like this probably was the outbound flight:
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=c8276a&lat=-23.171&lon=...
Returning the next day...
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=c8276a&lat=-38.872&lon=...
A bit speculative, agreed...for an armchair detective with a brandy on the hand... It matches the only airplane from Air Ambulance companies in NZ, that went out of NZ direction Fiji that day and returned to Auckland the next day from the corresponding direction. ADSB gets lost after a little bit over the ocean so not 100% sure final destination or origin. Really a wonderful place for billionaires to disappear from the common gents.
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=c8276a&lat=-23.171&lon=...
Returning the next day...
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=c8276a&lat=-38.872&lon=...
A bit speculative, agreed...for an armchair detective with a brandy on the hand... It matches the only airplane from Air Ambulance companies in NZ, that went out of NZ direction Fiji that day and returned to Auckland the next day from the corresponding direction. ADSB gets lost after a little bit over the ocean so not 100% sure final destination or origin. Really a wonderful place for billionaires to disappear from the common gents.
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"Covid 19 coronavirus: Dying man denied last chance to get home as emergency managed isolation spot rejected"
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-dying-man...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-dying-man...
This story is awful, but you should also know that Trev Ponting's application decision was reversed 24 hours after this made headlines. Yes, it should absolutely have been approved in the first place, but he made it home to Christchurch in February and passed away in April.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/12410323...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/12410323...
This doesn't seem like a fair comparison. The person in the article you posted was terminally ill and wanted to return for personal reasons. Based on the posted article, Page is seeking medical care for his child that cannot be provided in Fiji. In fact, the article explicitly mentions that New Zealand has two separate categories in which both incidents explicitly fall under. Page's case is category 1 while the man in your article is in category 2 based on my reading.
Yes, the issue is that regular people are denied the same chance.
I can see why there is a difference between being medevacked (accompanying a minor child with a medical need) and someone who wants to see their family and friends before they pass away (tragic, but not an urgent medical need).
But he didn't have an urgent medical need his kid had. Why let him get in as well?
Medical evacuation is common enough--I'm guessing that there are policies / laws in New Zealand to keep parents with their minor children. There are medical evacuations across borders all the time so I doubt this is treading any new ground.
People generally consider it horrifying to forcibly separate parents from minor children, unless it's in the child's interest. "Or else your child doesn't get treatment" counts as force.
People generally consider it horrifying to forcibly separate parents from minor children, unless it's in the child's interest. "Or else your child doesn't get treatment" counts as force.
It's not a medical emergency though, it's someone's wishes. Cruel but not the same.
>"New Zealanders stranded overseas who are desperate to get home deserve answers."
Is New Zealand not even allowing their own citizens to return to their home country?
Either way, as rich as he is; allowing a sick child to enter any country for emergency medical treatment is always the right thing to do in my books.
The whole point of the covid restrictions is to save lives, and they could very well have just save his son's life for all we know.
I am sure that the medevac paramedics and the hospital he was treated in took all of the right precautions to prevent him from spreading covid in New Zealand.
I hope his son is better now.
Is New Zealand not even allowing their own citizens to return to their home country?
Either way, as rich as he is; allowing a sick child to enter any country for emergency medical treatment is always the right thing to do in my books.
The whole point of the covid restrictions is to save lives, and they could very well have just save his son's life for all we know.
I am sure that the medevac paramedics and the hospital he was treated in took all of the right precautions to prevent him from spreading covid in New Zealand.
I hope his son is better now.
> Is New Zealand not even allowing their own citizens to return to their home country?
Only the rich ones, same for Australia. At least NZ is still letting people leave the country. The behaviour of both countries during this has put them near the bottom of the list for places I'd ever want to go to.
Only the rich ones, same for Australia. At least NZ is still letting people leave the country. The behaviour of both countries during this has put them near the bottom of the list for places I'd ever want to go to.
If New Zealand is like Australia, I wouldn't say it's only for the rich ones but you do need to be middle class because the flight costs + hotel costs are obscene. But you don't need to be a millionaire or a celebrity or anything like that.
I'm a NZ citizen living overseas and it's currently impossible to fly home over the new year because of limited mandatory quarantine locations.
The booking system is flawed in a way that scalpers have already dominated supply and are selling slots for thousands of dollars, reinforcing that NZ is becoming increasingly unaffordable for typical people.
More information including petition to overhaul the booking system can be found here: https://www.groundedkiwis.com/
The booking system is flawed in a way that scalpers have already dominated supply and are selling slots for thousands of dollars, reinforcing that NZ is becoming increasingly unaffordable for typical people.
More information including petition to overhaul the booking system can be found here: https://www.groundedkiwis.com/
I'm also an NZer overseas.
I believe there was plenty of time to fly home before the MIQ was put in place. (I was told about MIQ when I went to vote). However, yeah, I've never seen open spots on the MIQ.
I believe there was plenty of time to fly home before the MIQ was put in place. (I was told about MIQ when I went to vote). However, yeah, I've never seen open spots on the MIQ.
That's just terrible.
In Canada we are allowed to quarantine in our own homes, and the government checks up on you and fines you for leaving within 14 days afaik.
I hope you get home to your family soon.
In Canada we are allowed to quarantine in our own homes, and the government checks up on you and fines you for leaving within 14 days afaik.
I hope you get home to your family soon.
In Canada, when entering the country via airplane, there's a mandatory regulated 3-day stay at a hotel as part of the 14-day quarantine. This costs 1000-2000$ (for three nights!), And is absolutely an impediment for normal ppl to return to home. The measure was meant to discourage tourism, but ppl working abroad returning, immigrants and students were all treated the same.
(The measure is in effect late Feb to early Aug 2021)
(The measure is in effect late Feb to early Aug 2021)
And that is also why we have every foreign origin covid variant floating around in Canada. Quarantine by honor system clearly hasn't worked.
I wish we had been stricter with international travel so that we could have had less restrictions at home.
I wish we had been stricter with international travel so that we could have had less restrictions at home.
I was dumbfounded by the "restrictions" myself.
You can't drive over the border, but you can fly? Makes 0 sense.
You can't drive over the border, but you can fly? Makes 0 sense.
yes, and that's (part of) why Canada has endemic Covid-19 and NZ does not.
So you can think of no other explanation why a remote island country without any land borders, and with it's closest (still further than US is from Europe, but closest) neighbour not having a spreading infection, might be safer against spreading infections than a country with a 9000 barely-patrolled border with a neighbour that had it's Corona response (first) directed by a real estate billionaire ?
"New Zealanders stranded overseas"
No I don't think so. All citizens can return home. Believe the issue is booking over booked quarantine facilities for arrival
No I don't think so. All citizens can return home. Believe the issue is booking over booked quarantine facilities for arrival
So they can return home in theory but mostly not in practice.
Government only organised a few quarantine locations, WAY too few. So scalpers are "buying" all the quarantine spots, then reselling them for 10x profit.
Rich enough? You can go home. Poor? Yeah, sucks to be you.
Rich enough? You can go home. Poor? Yeah, sucks to be you.
If quarantines facilities are booked, then they cannot? Then it's not true they can return (if they are booked).
It's like you have to wait for a scheduled fight to go back to your country. You can't run towards the ocean and flap your arms and go by yourself. So if there are no flight during convid you are waiting and not going home. They have to wait for practical reasons which isn't a ban
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Taking your kid to Fiji in the middle of a pandemic just seems negligent to me. Sure, accept them for treatment but charge the parents with abuse.
According to the article, he has been "based" there. It doesn't seem like a vacation, so much as a place to isolate. Is it fair that Larry Page gets to go to Fiji to isolate while the rest of us are at home? No. But it's not exactly irresponsible either (from a health perspective).
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He’s not a citizen, he willingly chose to bring his kid to a fairly remote part of the world for a long term stay. That’s not irresponsible to you? Bringing your children places where you cannot get them adequate care?
No. The number of times I've needed a medevac flight is approximately zero. It's not like Fiji has no healthcare for routine issues (not to mention that Larry Page can easily afford to fly doctors in from anywhere on a private jet). Obviously, a medevac flight indicates something more serious, and probably unexpected.
Frankly, even given private planes and all, I would probably not have chosen some place outside the US to ride out the pandemic simply given that it adds a potential level of complexity in the case of an outbreak in an uncertain world. But there's nothing inherent to Pacific islands--including those in the state of Hawaii--that would make it inherently irresponsible to take a child there for a week or for months.
How would the diplomacy work here between NZ and Fiji's government, if NZ was to rule that having/bringing kids in Fiji is negligence?
Super-rich people are already post-human. They experience the human condition on an entirely separate level than most everyone else.
Maybe with a very superficial conception of “human condition.” I’m sure Larry has many of the same daily frustrations and anxieties that you and I do.
Not to suggest that it’s not seriously advantageous to have eliminated the frustrations/anxieties that you can purchase your way out of.
Not to suggest that it’s not seriously advantageous to have eliminated the frustrations/anxieties that you can purchase your way out of.
Really?
My daily anxieties are "I need to find time to make dinner/shop.", "I need to fit in a run into this crazy day.", "Do I have enough money for retirement?", "My co-workers are stressing me out.", "Can I get this project done on time?"
I literally can't think of a common daily anxiety or frustration that would not just evaporate if I was a retired multi-billionaire.
My daily anxieties are "I need to find time to make dinner/shop.", "I need to fit in a run into this crazy day.", "Do I have enough money for retirement?", "My co-workers are stressing me out.", "Can I get this project done on time?"
I literally can't think of a common daily anxiety or frustration that would not just evaporate if I was a retired multi-billionaire.
The difference that I see immediately is that all of your anxieties are focused on yourself, while this article is specifically about providing medical care to Mr. Page's son.
My own anxieties have largely to do with my children, and while some can probably be bought away (is my kid getting an OK education at this public school?), there isn't an amount of money to instantly solve "my kid is sick".
I agree on the whole with the sentiment that the situations of the super rich are not comparable to ours, but there are some things that money won't solve, and likely some problems that you and I cannot conceive of that money creates.
My own anxieties have largely to do with my children, and while some can probably be bought away (is my kid getting an OK education at this public school?), there isn't an amount of money to instantly solve "my kid is sick".
I agree on the whole with the sentiment that the situations of the super rich are not comparable to ours, but there are some things that money won't solve, and likely some problems that you and I cannot conceive of that money creates.
> I’m sure Larry has many of the same daily frustrations and anxieties that you and I do.
This is the comment I was responding to. Sick children are not a daily frustration and, even then, Page can pay for the best health care available anywhere in the world for his child, many others have to decide between keeping their house to medical treatment.
This is the comment I was responding to. Sick children are not a daily frustration and, even then, Page can pay for the best health care available anywhere in the world for his child, many others have to decide between keeping their house to medical treatment.
The amount of bootlicking on HN can be staggering. Class solidarity seems awful far off when so many temporarily embarrassed billionaires are awaiting their time to shine.
“The human condition” is called that because it describes the set of innate features (or bugs) of human existence. There’s nothing more bootlicking than believing money will let you escape it.
You’ve focused in on some subset of what makes life interesting for humans, without understanding that as money dwindles a very new and quite real set of problems materialize for people.
Have you ever been poor? I have. I’ve also made fairly exorbitant amounts of money in a year later in my career. Money does not fix problems, but it absolutely removes a great deal of inconvenience, trouble, and stress from life.
The working poor who are otherwise trapped in a web of debt and crushing hours with low pay are much closer to the average worker - tech or otherwise - making several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, than that worker is to someone like Page.
But folks often don’t realize this. The fickle trappings of the “middle-class” create a false rug of comfort that can be readily yanked out from underneath someone given an injury or illness.
This is not a worry billionaires have. Nor most millionaires. But many Americans do have it.
Money doesn’t break you out of the human condition, but it absolutely changes life radically.
Which is fine, I’m happy to let the rich do what they will. As soon as we no longer have citizens bankrupted by medical or educational debt, or have their retirements wiped out by an injury or illness. Once citizens can rest easier, then they can have their absurd displays of wealth. Until then, they are begging awfully hard for violent revolution.
Have you ever been poor? I have. I’ve also made fairly exorbitant amounts of money in a year later in my career. Money does not fix problems, but it absolutely removes a great deal of inconvenience, trouble, and stress from life.
The working poor who are otherwise trapped in a web of debt and crushing hours with low pay are much closer to the average worker - tech or otherwise - making several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, than that worker is to someone like Page.
But folks often don’t realize this. The fickle trappings of the “middle-class” create a false rug of comfort that can be readily yanked out from underneath someone given an injury or illness.
This is not a worry billionaires have. Nor most millionaires. But many Americans do have it.
Money doesn’t break you out of the human condition, but it absolutely changes life radically.
Which is fine, I’m happy to let the rich do what they will. As soon as we no longer have citizens bankrupted by medical or educational debt, or have their retirements wiped out by an injury or illness. Once citizens can rest easier, then they can have their absurd displays of wealth. Until then, they are begging awfully hard for violent revolution.
Yes, I have been poor and am now decidedly not. Guess what: Death still approaches. Money still appears finite and insufficient. Nagging sense of incompleteness remains. Relationships of all kinds are challenging in all kinds of ways.
And this is all coming from someone who is deeply satisfied with life and essentially always has been! That’s the trouble with the human condition.
Is this a defense of allowing uncapped accumulation of wealth? No. Is it a defense of the ultrarich being able to do whatever they want? No. It’s the simple observation that while money buys solutions to many conditions, “the human condition” is not one of them.
And this is all coming from someone who is deeply satisfied with life and essentially always has been! That’s the trouble with the human condition.
Is this a defense of allowing uncapped accumulation of wealth? No. Is it a defense of the ultrarich being able to do whatever they want? No. It’s the simple observation that while money buys solutions to many conditions, “the human condition” is not one of them.
Sure, if we narrow our scope of concerns to “the human condition” we can say that.
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I recently watched a short mini-doc about Notch, of minecraft fame, and it seems he really went through it after selling MC for $2.5 billion. He talked a lot about isolation and an inability to connect with other people, despite becoming well known for insane parties and stating he has the ability to do whatever he wants.
Other people who have come upon sudden riches have expressed the same sentiment. There was a great post on reddit years ago from a guy in wealth management who talked about the severe lack of "human experience" when you achieve maximum wealth.
Other people who have come upon sudden riches have expressed the same sentiment. There was a great post on reddit years ago from a guy in wealth management who talked about the severe lack of "human experience" when you achieve maximum wealth.
Notch could have put 99.95 % of his riches i to helping to fix and save the world without imactong his living standard. He could have made lives of a lot of people better. I know I would.
If he chose not to, and he feels empty, thats on him. He probably is empty.
If he chose not to, and he feels empty, thats on him. He probably is empty.
Yeah, if your vast wealth is making you miserable ... that's a real easy thing to fix.
Thats a fair price to pay for being rich beyond what a single person needs. No sympathy from my part, only understanding. I wouldnt want to hang out with a rich guy as well. These people are creepy.
> Unknowingly prisoners of their own egotism, they feel insecure, lonely, and deprived of the naive, simple, and unsophisticated enjoyment of life. Man can find meaning in life, short and perilous as it is, only through devoting himself to society.
> The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil.
This quote from Einstein always comes to mind when I hear of people that get a lot of "success" with money but then feel empty as a result. I feel like it has to be, at least in part, a knowledge that they aren't giving back what they know they should be for the amount they are taking, but you can't really blame them too much because it's what everyone is "supposed" to do :/
> The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil.
This quote from Einstein always comes to mind when I hear of people that get a lot of "success" with money but then feel empty as a result. I feel like it has to be, at least in part, a knowledge that they aren't giving back what they know they should be for the amount they are taking, but you can't really blame them too much because it's what everyone is "supposed" to do :/
How about the common daily anxieties "Will I ever find true love?" and "Damn poop stinks"?
In reply to the other comment, the parent. I think maybe with an overly literal and limited reading you arrive at that conclusion, but nevertheless this is a very interesting thing.
Yeah. This kind of delusional hand-waving of the material conditions of billionaires is terrifying. Their wealth is upon our and our children’s backs. With their capital they could push to revolutionize healthcare or housing for the poor.
But they’re not. They’re hiding from a pandemic in Fiji and buying their way into quarantined nations that aren’t even letting their own citizens in.
Let me know the next time Page or Schmidt has to worry whether they’ll ever be destitute due to an injury or accident out of their control.
But they’re not. They’re hiding from a pandemic in Fiji and buying their way into quarantined nations that aren’t even letting their own citizens in.
Let me know the next time Page or Schmidt has to worry whether they’ll ever be destitute due to an injury or accident out of their control.
"And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human."
William Gibson, Count Zero (1986)
William Gibson, Count Zero (1986)
Added Sprawl to the reading list, thanks.
"More simply, satire serves to remind those who’ve placed themselves above us that they, like us, shit and they, too, will die." [1]
The super-rich aren't gods, they just have something people want. However rich Bezos was, his junk is still on the internet for anyone to go see, so money really can't solve everything.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/mar/21/satire-...
The super-rich aren't gods, they just have something people want. However rich Bezos was, his junk is still on the internet for anyone to go see, so money really can't solve everything.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/mar/21/satire-...
An unusual life path leads to a unique experience: A life of a professional politician, or an olympic sportsmen, or a Nobel laurate might look very different from a life of an ordinary person. But saying the "human condition" is diffetent? Let me disagree, I think it's too much-- all people all Earth have the same basic condition: sometime we are happy, we suffer, fight addictions, look for purpose, struggle, experience betrayal, overwork, worry for kids, look for a significant other, get disappointed, get excited... that is just like the rest
Didn't Eric Schmidt recently start the process to renounce his American citizenship so he could dodge paying taxes?
And following this logic does that mean we're essentially governed by aliens ?
Super rich people have the same phone as me. They got the same vaccine as me. The same flue as everyone else can knock them down every winter. On average their kids die with the same frequency and for the same reasons as mine.
Once you get a decent salary utity of money decreases badly.
Once you get a decent salary utity of money decreases badly.
His kid is sick. That’s very much human.
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I find this story to be mainly sad. Larry Page had a 12 year old son that was sick enough that a 1500 mile medivac seemed like the best option. New Zealand is somehow shut tight enough that this shouldn't have been possible. I think regular people SHOULD be able to medivac to western medical care during medical emergencies, even during pandemics. I feel bad for the New Zealanders that their government went to such isolationist extremes that this could even be in the news.
Apparently not sick enough to consider immediate flight extra 500 miles to Sydney, but instead wait an extra day. Oh and as a coincidental bonus he was able to complete his residency application and receive it right away.
“The day after the application was received, a New Zealand air ambulance staffed by a New Zealand ICU nurse-escort medevaced the child and an adult family member from Fiji to New Zealand,” https://apnews.com/article/technology-lifestyle-travel-new-z...
“The day after the application was received, a New Zealand air ambulance staffed by a New Zealand ICU nurse-escort medevaced the child and an adult family member from Fiji to New Zealand,” https://apnews.com/article/technology-lifestyle-travel-new-z...
> Larry Page had a 12 year old son that was sick enough that a 1500 mile medivac seemed like the best option.
Best option for whom? It is entirely possible that the child wasn't especially sick and could have been treated in Fiji, but paranoid billionaire parents didn't believe that Fijian medical care was good enough.
The fact is we don't know and likely never well. I have no doubt though that billionaires are given privileges that are supposedly not for sale.
Best option for whom? It is entirely possible that the child wasn't especially sick and could have been treated in Fiji, but paranoid billionaire parents didn't believe that Fijian medical care was good enough.
The fact is we don't know and likely never well. I have no doubt though that billionaires are given privileges that are supposedly not for sale.
An isolationist extreme that arguably saved tens of thousands of lives ...
Choose your poison.
Choose your poison.
There are countless measures that could be taken that would arguably save just as many if not more lives, but we (collectively) don't believe they're worth it. Many people also believe that the things NZ and AU have done to battle Covid are not worth it.
And?
You're just presenting the other side of "arguably". Thanks, but unnecessary.
You're just presenting the other side of "arguably". Thanks, but unnecessary.
I'm saying that the argument in "arguably" is one that could be made over just about any safety/security measure implemented by a government, and so it isn't much of an argument.
Your little snipe was arguably unnecessary.
Your little snipe was arguably unnecessary.
Not sure what you're trying to get to here.
So what if "many people" believe X, Y, or Z. Who cares?
NZ decided on a course of action. They implemented it. They arguably saved tens of thousands of lives. That's the truth.
Their government was presumably elected democratically, so what more is there to say?
The OP said he felt bad for NZ'ers. I don't, and I said why.
What more would you like?
So what if "many people" believe X, Y, or Z. Who cares?
NZ decided on a course of action. They implemented it. They arguably saved tens of thousands of lives. That's the truth.
Their government was presumably elected democratically, so what more is there to say?
The OP said he felt bad for NZ'ers. I don't, and I said why.
What more would you like?
Hard to say. They're obviously still very isolated--which they presumably can't do forever. But they were able to wait things out until a vaccine was developed (elsewhere) though their vaccine rates are still pretty low.
Discretion is a thing, surely there are more important things to be outraged about? Falling for click-bait like nobody's business.
Clearly you haven't been denied at a border last year when trying to visit your fiance or sick loved one only to watch the celebrities and super-rich breeze through borders as if lock-downs don't even exist. I had to experience that last year, and it hurts to watch this double standard.
Life isn't fair, never was. What good does it do to be upset about stuff that you can't change in a country you're not even citizen of?
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No, this thing is rather important to discuss. Although it seems the NZ gov is the villain here, not Larry Page.
> Immigration Minister Kris Faafoi told reporters Page had applied for a medical exemption
Is the healthcare system in New Zealand better than the states?
Is the healthcare system in New Zealand better than the states?
> Is the healthcare system in New Zealand better than the states?
Most western countries have better healthcare system than the US, New Zealand included.
- US comes in last in health care rankings of high-income countries - https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/04/health/us-health-care-ran...
- Health Care in the U.S. Compared to Other High-Income Countries - https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2...
Most western countries have better healthcare system than the US, New Zealand included.
- US comes in last in health care rankings of high-income countries - https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/04/health/us-health-care-ran...
- Health Care in the U.S. Compared to Other High-Income Countries - https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2...
The reports you linked measure "access and equity and outcomes" - i.e., averaged cost-effectiveness for people who rely on popular insurance programs, rather than paying out of pocket.
US scores poorly in those due to high sticker prices; the quality available for those who can afford is the best in US; both for specialist rare cases and for mundane cases.
US scores poorly in those due to high sticker prices; the quality available for those who can afford is the best in US; both for specialist rare cases and for mundane cases.
> US scores poorly in those due to high sticker prices; the quality available for those who can afford is the best in US; both for specialist rare cases and for mundane cases.
I only doubt you a little, but in order to make this discussion as truthful as possible, you mind adding some sources to your strong claims?
I only doubt you a little, but in order to make this discussion as truthful as possible, you mind adding some sources to your strong claims?
I don't think CNN is what we should use as "evidence".
If you look at any of the research, the US has effectively the same survival rate of an emergency admission or elective surgery as the rest of the world (within a small margin).
This doesn't even control other items such as age, violence, body weight, pre-existing conditions, etc etc. Arguably the U.S. has a bigger issue with weight, which would indicate the U.S. healthcare system may be slightly more robust.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but I'd avoid diving into political leaning pundits -- common wealth fund and CNN are both political pundits. Looking at the raw data it is not as clear.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4515980/
Even this is political, but it's more clear: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality...
U.S. does a lot better in some areas, worse in others. But if you control for weight it's going to be better.
If you look at any of the research, the US has effectively the same survival rate of an emergency admission or elective surgery as the rest of the world (within a small margin).
This doesn't even control other items such as age, violence, body weight, pre-existing conditions, etc etc. Arguably the U.S. has a bigger issue with weight, which would indicate the U.S. healthcare system may be slightly more robust.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but I'd avoid diving into political leaning pundits -- common wealth fund and CNN are both political pundits. Looking at the raw data it is not as clear.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4515980/
Even this is political, but it's more clear: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality...
U.S. does a lot better in some areas, worse in others. But if you control for weight it's going to be better.
Most western countries have better healthcare system than the US, New Zealand included.
If you're 'poor'. If you're rich it's an entirely different situation. And I think it's fair to classify Larry Page as rich.
If you're 'poor'. If you're rich it's an entirely different situation. And I think it's fair to classify Larry Page as rich.
This is for the average person. For the super rich, America or Japan are probably the places to get top medical care.
The rich will just go to whatever country happens to have the best person to treat the thing they need treating.
Had a colleague whose wife worked at a Swedish hospital and she had patients from all over the world, not because the Swedish health system or even that hospital was particularly fantastic, but because she was one of the top people in the world in this one very niche thing.
Had a colleague whose wife worked at a Swedish hospital and she had patients from all over the world, not because the Swedish health system or even that hospital was particularly fantastic, but because she was one of the top people in the world in this one very niche thing.
As the other commenter said, 'The rich will just go to whatever country happens to have the best person to treat the thing they need treating'.
Now, out of all developed countries, why did you mention Japan? IIRC, Japan produces little medical research compared to the UK or even Germany.
Now, out of all developed countries, why did you mention Japan? IIRC, Japan produces little medical research compared to the UK or even Germany.
Japan isn't great about excellent expensive medical care outside of insurance.
> Most western countries have better healthcare system than the US, New Zealand included.
Canadian here. The AVERAGE Canadian's health care is MUCH better than the average American's.
But the best hospitals and the best healthcare in the world is in the US ... if you can afford it. Most of our multi-millionaires and billionaires go to the US for anything critical.
Canadian here. The AVERAGE Canadian's health care is MUCH better than the average American's.
But the best hospitals and the best healthcare in the world is in the US ... if you can afford it. Most of our multi-millionaires and billionaires go to the US for anything critical.
>Canadian here. The AVERAGE Canadian's health care is MUCH better than the average American's.
An amazingly high portion of Canadians don't have a family doctor (<https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/despite-more-doctors-many-cana...>). In Atlantic Canada the shortage is astounding (<https://www.thetelegram.com/in-depth/doctor-shortage/what-we...>). It's one thing to have shortages in rural areas—that also happens in the US—but Halifax?!? I've heard the same occurs in Vancouver too.
>But the best hospitals and the best healthcare in the world is in the US ... if you can afford it.
91% of Americans have health insurance, compared to 95-97% for Canada and every other developed country. There are always people who fall into cracks, such as the Canadian who neglects to sign up for a new provincial health care card after moving. The only way to have true 100% coverage is to do what the UK does and not require any card or ID at point of delivery.
>Most of our multi-millionaires and billionaires go to the US for anything critical.
Politicians too, such as Jean Chretien, who twice visited the Mayo Clinic while Prime Minister, disguising the visits as "ski vacations" (<https://web.archive.org/web/20160624132234/http://www.ezrale...>).
An amazingly high portion of Canadians don't have a family doctor (<https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/despite-more-doctors-many-cana...>). In Atlantic Canada the shortage is astounding (<https://www.thetelegram.com/in-depth/doctor-shortage/what-we...>). It's one thing to have shortages in rural areas—that also happens in the US—but Halifax?!? I've heard the same occurs in Vancouver too.
>But the best hospitals and the best healthcare in the world is in the US ... if you can afford it.
91% of Americans have health insurance, compared to 95-97% for Canada and every other developed country. There are always people who fall into cracks, such as the Canadian who neglects to sign up for a new provincial health care card after moving. The only way to have true 100% coverage is to do what the UK does and not require any card or ID at point of delivery.
>Most of our multi-millionaires and billionaires go to the US for anything critical.
Politicians too, such as Jean Chretien, who twice visited the Mayo Clinic while Prime Minister, disguising the visits as "ski vacations" (<https://web.archive.org/web/20160624132234/http://www.ezrale...>).
This depends. If you have insurance, the US provides some of the best care on Earth.
The average US HN user has better care than the average HN user from elsewhere because we gainfully employed techs have decent insurance.
The average US HN user has better care than the average HN user from elsewhere because we gainfully employed techs have decent insurance.
That may or may not be true.
I am now in Israel, where I had much better outcomes than when I was in the US (with excellent insurance). Anecdotal, but I know many stories of Israelis who moved back to Israel with first diagnosis of a serious disease despite a good insurance - mostly because they were aware of horror stories of people losing their insurance at some point and going bankrupt (COBRA is damn expensive, and only lasts 18 month at its longest).
Granted, their experience predates Obamacare - it might be different now.
I am now in Israel, where I had much better outcomes than when I was in the US (with excellent insurance). Anecdotal, but I know many stories of Israelis who moved back to Israel with first diagnosis of a serious disease despite a good insurance - mostly because they were aware of horror stories of people losing their insurance at some point and going bankrupt (COBRA is damn expensive, and only lasts 18 month at its longest).
Granted, their experience predates Obamacare - it might be different now.
I cannot comment on Israel, but it is true (anecdotally) for Canada. Doctor and medicine shortages - day-long waits for ER care - hospitals overflowing with elderly patients - etc....
I have had far worse experiences in Canada than in the US.
I have had far worse experiences in Canada than in the US.
Iirc Canada doesn’t actually have a private system, does it?
Israel has an excellent, though very unpleasant, free public system; and also a parallel private system that’s as expensive as the US (but that has a very distinct use profile because of the existence of the public system).
You’ll almost always get to see an ER doctor within a couple of hours in the public system, and a junior specialist for a non-emergency within a couple of weeks, but if you want the real expert specialist, you’ll wait 6 months in the public system, or 2 weeks if you go private.
Time constants from the center / Tel Aviv area. I heard they are worse the farther away you are - but then, 90% of the population is within a 2 hour drive of Tel Aviv, and the rest are less than 4 hours drive or 40 minute flight.
Israel has an excellent, though very unpleasant, free public system; and also a parallel private system that’s as expensive as the US (but that has a very distinct use profile because of the existence of the public system).
You’ll almost always get to see an ER doctor within a couple of hours in the public system, and a junior specialist for a non-emergency within a couple of weeks, but if you want the real expert specialist, you’ll wait 6 months in the public system, or 2 weeks if you go private.
Time constants from the center / Tel Aviv area. I heard they are worse the farther away you are - but then, 90% of the population is within a 2 hour drive of Tel Aviv, and the rest are less than 4 hours drive or 40 minute flight.
Yes, if push comes to shove, "best" is always best ... but I couldn't be happy in a country like that.
I don't how you post that so comfortably and without qualification.
I don't how you post that so comfortably and without qualification.
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He's been isolating on an island in Fiji since last summer.
If rumours are true and he and his family have been doing that because of Covid that is a very stupid strategy, especially coming from a billionaire. First of all because in medical emergencies you have to travel 1000+ miles to the closest decent hospital (or to the hospital that can save your child's life), even if you have the fastest jet always on call that takes time.
And second, apart from living in the middle of Siberia [1] or in the Amazon jungle with literally no contact with anyone, believing that you won't get Covid in Fiji because it's more isolated is just a wrong premise. Unless they are airlifted all your supplies get, well, supplied to you via direct human contact, no matter how much you try just one small slip/moment of not paying attention can make the difference between being infected and not being infected. And if you do get infected it's better to be located close to a hospital, not literally on an island in the middle of the Pacific.
Just bad decisions all around.
[1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-rus...
And second, apart from living in the middle of Siberia [1] or in the Amazon jungle with literally no contact with anyone, believing that you won't get Covid in Fiji because it's more isolated is just a wrong premise. Unless they are airlifted all your supplies get, well, supplied to you via direct human contact, no matter how much you try just one small slip/moment of not paying attention can make the difference between being infected and not being infected. And if you do get infected it's better to be located close to a hospital, not literally on an island in the middle of the Pacific.
Just bad decisions all around.
[1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-rus...
The pacific islands seem to have done rather well in preventing Covid to take hold. Because they basically closed all borders early on. Fiji seems to have gotten quickly rid of covid with the first wave and ever since had no cases. Besides Fiji being said to be an overall nice place to be in, it certainly was pleseant as there were no restrictions for those on the island.
I am of the opinion that they are delaying the inevitable considering the likelihood that COVID-19 will be with us for the next decade.
That’s my point, too, the inevitable will come, at one point or another. Countries like Thailand or Vietnam used to be relatively Covid-free until a few months ago and were given as positive examples.
Vaccines are definitely making a difference at this point. But I think we'll find, to the degree we can make sense of a lot of noisy data, that a lot of what people ascribed to cultural, behavioral, and political differences based on their own leanings will be seen as largely happenstance.
There is a vaccination now. So to the degree that some locations were able to get through the pre-vaccine timeline, presumably (assuming people get vaccinated there) they'll end up with better--although not perfect--outcomes overall.
It does make a huge difference to keep it out until the population could be vaccinated. No casualties, no sick. And that despite of no masks or other precautions.
Am I missing something? I looked it up and it says Fiji has not just one, but 25 hospitals. Some of them are small and can't handle anything too severe, but they do still have a large number of hospitals it seems. Are you saying none of these hospitals are capable of saving somebody's life if they have covid?
Hasn't NZ been isolating itself? AFAIK they have had overall 26 deaths. I ll consider that evidence conclusive
He was in Fiji.
which is right next to Australia with wide open borders and almost 1 million visits per month clocked in January 2020 https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/tourism-and-trans...
EDIT : wrong year!
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/tourism-and-trans...
borders open, ~8K arrivals. 1h flight time difference between Auckland and Sydney.
EDIT : wrong year!
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/tourism-and-trans...
borders open, ~8K arrivals. 1h flight time difference between Auckland and Sydney.
And how many visits Fiji had since the pandemic struck? As far as I know, they closed their borders entirely.
> January 2020
May I know what the significance of January 2020 is? Isn't that before Australia closed their borders?
May I know what the significance of January 2020 is? Isn't that before Australia closed their borders?
Wide open borders… in January 2020. Hmm did anything happen in February 2020?
I dont know what happened in February, what I do know however is:
>the billionaire and one of his children were granted access to New Zealand in January
>the billionaire and one of his children were granted access to New Zealand in January
January 2021 , again Australian borders are not wide open, nowhere near it. You are comparing a pre covid period.
no, but he's been seen hydrofoiling (presumably it's better there)
Most other developed nations have better healthcare systems.
Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi
I was watching a youtube video of some guys sailing in the ocean who found a loophole to enter NZ just for tourism i guess.
>The billionaire had reportedly been based on an outlying Fijian island during the Covid-19 pandemic.
I sometime think that the life of someone like Page must be so irredeemably boring. What else do you have left when literally anything you can think of is just a negligible-bank-transfer-whatever-the-sum away?
I sometime think that the life of someone like Page must be so irredeemably boring. What else do you have left when literally anything you can think of is just a negligible-bank-transfer-whatever-the-sum away?
I guess. But why would it be okay for Joe Schmoe to while away their time in Fiji either being a beach bum surfer, or shacking up with a local, opening a coffeshop catering to tourists, running a rickety charter boat, etc., be okay, but as a billionaire it is not ok? They can also want to while their their time in boredom.
In Page's case? Building better than the computer from Star Trek.
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That's how influential he is. Even some rules can bend according to their will. It is not a surprise as other influential figures are doing this on multiple occasions.
I like the way you spell "ultrarich".
I think "ultrarich" is far too tame. He controls a company that mediates our very relationship to "facts" and information. Together with Facebook, Google controls what the world thinks about. You can see that power being exercised forcefully over the past year in regards to vaccines, politics and conspiracies.
I think this comment won't go down well with the HN crowd, although I think that from a simple factual perspective you are quite right.
The first two sentences are far more sensible than the third.
Agree that it's a bigger claim, so let me explain the mechanism. People think and talk about whatever is in their environment. Companies, marketers, PR agencies and political strategists understand this well and use it to pack the news and media we consume with the messages they profit from having us talk about. Maybe you agree with the message or disagree, but you will be likely taking part in the conversation. Often these topics are not even personally relevant to us, far outside our sphere of influence, but we talk about them anyway because that's what has been injected in the public sphere.
Together, Google and Facebook control an enormous percent of all information distribution. They make a show as being a neutral platform, only responding to the preferences of the user, but that is more and more obviously not true. I am not a republican, but I think their fear of getting cut off the internet is legit, because if you're not on the internet, your're out of the conversation.
Together, Google and Facebook control an enormous percent of all information distribution. They make a show as being a neutral platform, only responding to the preferences of the user, but that is more and more obviously not true. I am not a republican, but I think their fear of getting cut off the internet is legit, because if you're not on the internet, your're out of the conversation.
Of course, if someone wants to visit a country for an HCP of their choice they should be allowed to.