Is water always the best choice on a hot day?(bbc.com)
bbc.com
Is water always the best choice on a hot day?
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210802-is-water-always-the-best-choice-on-a-hot-day
140 comments
You're ignoring extremely hot and dry environments like deserts.
I struggle to drink enough water to urinate at all when working on my desert cabin in the summer months. It's completely redefined my perception of how much water the human body can lose to perspiration alone.
I struggle to drink enough water to urinate at all when working on my desert cabin in the summer months. It's completely redefined my perception of how much water the human body can lose to perspiration alone.
> You're ignoring extremely hot and dry environments like deserts.
I'm not - I've got professional experience managing healthcare in Helmand in the summer. You still don't need as much water as some people think.
I don't know anything about your work or conditions, but my first recommendation would still be to make sure you're eating as much as you need, and then to drink less but more slowly.
I'm not - I've got professional experience managing healthcare in Helmand in the summer. You still don't need as much water as some people think.
I don't know anything about your work or conditions, but my first recommendation would still be to make sure you're eating as much as you need, and then to drink less but more slowly.
I don’t have much experience with living in the desert, but when I hiked down the Grand Canyon I drank 8L and didn’t go to the bathroom. I also ate trail mix and protein bars, had lunch, etc.
I was drinking as much as was comfortable to me, since I was worried about getting dehydrated, and still never needed to use the toilet until after the hike was over.
I don’t think drinking less would have helped the situation.
I was drinking as much as was comfortable to me, since I was worried about getting dehydrated, and still never needed to use the toilet until after the hike was over.
I don’t think drinking less would have helped the situation.
> I don’t think drinking less would have helped the situation.
It might have if the unexpected happened and you needed the water to survive the next day. Water consumption when hiking/backpacking can be tricky, especially in hot+arid environments lacking known springs or streams.
It might have if the unexpected happened and you needed the water to survive the next day. Water consumption when hiking/backpacking can be tricky, especially in hot+arid environments lacking known springs or streams.
I'd love for you to come build a roof with me in the Mojave in July and demonstrate this drink less water more slowly approach.
> I’d love for you to come build a roof with me in the Mojave in July and demonstrate this drink less water more slowly approach.
I’m not building a roof in any desert during the summer, and am also interested in this drink water more slowly approach.
I’m not building a roof in any desert during the summer, and am also interested in this drink water more slowly approach.
Make sure you drink a Gatorade or two as well. Pedialyte works as well.
People aren't good at hydration, at least I wasn't, so at the risk of self promotion I have an iphone app called Max Hydrate - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/max-hydrate/id1575744883#?plat... - that calculates how much you should drink to stay hydrated. It's based on research and the most important parts are free.
I had thought about it mostly for working out and athletes, but perhaps in warmer temps it has more general applicability. I've learned older people often suffer from dehydration without realizing it.
It has a WUT test to test for dehydration and uses your sweat profile to suggest hydration products. There are a lot of options these days beyond Gatorade and Pedialyte.
Most people don't get enough salt, so that's something to watch out for, especially if you are a salty sweater.
I had thought about it mostly for working out and athletes, but perhaps in warmer temps it has more general applicability. I've learned older people often suffer from dehydration without realizing it.
It has a WUT test to test for dehydration and uses your sweat profile to suggest hydration products. There are a lot of options these days beyond Gatorade and Pedialyte.
Most people don't get enough salt, so that's something to watch out for, especially if you are a salty sweater.
Snacking on canned sardines in water (and drinking the broth) seems to work well enough, plenty of sodium.
edit: Writing this comment has made me realize mixing powdered dehydrated boullion into the water would probably work quite well too. The ambient temps are so high the water is basically at hot soup temperature as-is.
edit: Writing this comment has made me realize mixing powdered dehydrated boullion into the water would probably work quite well too. The ambient temps are so high the water is basically at hot soup temperature as-is.
I've used Pedialyte (and equivalent convenience store alternatives[0]) after cutting weight for grappling, and occasionally also to prevent (or recover from) hangovers. Very useful drink.
0. Make sure they have Zinc!
0. Make sure they have Zinc!
> does nothing useful
I am pretty sure it contributes in removing salts - which in weather conditions that makes one sweat profusely, worsens the problem.
> sixteen litres a day or something
Best to remind then that drinking 6 liters of water can be sufficient to kill a human.
( https://scienceswitch.com/2014/12/09/takes-6-liters-water-ki... )
I am pretty sure it contributes in removing salts - which in weather conditions that makes one sweat profusely, worsens the problem.
> sixteen litres a day or something
Best to remind then that drinking 6 liters of water can be sufficient to kill a human.
( https://scienceswitch.com/2014/12/09/takes-6-liters-water-ki... )
> Best to remind then that drinking 6 liters of water can be sufficient to kill a human
How many people does this actually kill? I can't imagine anyone I know doing anything like it.
How many people does this actually kill? I can't imagine anyone I know doing anything like it.
The point that people do die of it may be less important that the point that people do not know that one can die of it.
I have seen very many people in the running cultures that first, have lost contact with the bodily feedback, and/or second, let pieces of information float and influence without getting vetted and grounded.
One of such dictums warns "to drink at least three litres of water per day!" with many exclamation marks: I have seen people suffer the consequence (and one brought one to the hospital, where she was told "lady, break that habit") because, simply, it was not the adequate amount /for them/.
It is not a difficult error to make if some hydrate and do not eat (intake nutrients), and do not know or feel that, as emerged in these posts, the concentration of salts is key.
Anecdotes about people dying for that 6-litres are around and you can find some in the article I linked.
I have seen very many people in the running cultures that first, have lost contact with the bodily feedback, and/or second, let pieces of information float and influence without getting vetted and grounded.
One of such dictums warns "to drink at least three litres of water per day!" with many exclamation marks: I have seen people suffer the consequence (and one brought one to the hospital, where she was told "lady, break that habit") because, simply, it was not the adequate amount /for them/.
It is not a difficult error to make if some hydrate and do not eat (intake nutrients), and do not know or feel that, as emerged in these posts, the concentration of salts is key.
Anecdotes about people dying for that 6-litres are around and you can find some in the article I linked.
Someone got sick drinking 3L water per day? I find that hard to believe.
I don't know Alison, I could put you in contact - I, by chance, brought her to the hospital the day she got sick. Then again, I was not the assessing doctor and there is always a doubt in putting causes together in a correct frame.
This given, have you considered that some people weigh 120, some 80 and some 40? Already because of this, a "3l (or 1, or 9) [for everyone]" should intuitively make little sense.
Another point: if the concentration of salts have a meaning, as a few are indicating around the thread, drinking Xl while eating 2Y and drinking Xl while eating ½Y makes quite a difference.
These two humble points stress what already written: very generic stubs of rules make little sense. Match that with the missed notion that some things are harmful, match it again with the lazy inclination that makes the body a not-listened-to servant (I know people that do not know they should sleep), and one day or the other some get hurt.
This given, have you considered that some people weigh 120, some 80 and some 40? Already because of this, a "3l (or 1, or 9) [for everyone]" should intuitively make little sense.
Another point: if the concentration of salts have a meaning, as a few are indicating around the thread, drinking Xl while eating 2Y and drinking Xl while eating ½Y makes quite a difference.
These two humble points stress what already written: very generic stubs of rules make little sense. Match that with the missed notion that some things are harmful, match it again with the lazy inclination that makes the body a not-listened-to servant (I know people that do not know they should sleep), and one day or the other some get hurt.
(There's something a little creepy about using someone's personal name, unless you know them.)
(There may be, wolverine, but it is also a rhetoric device that makes sense when there are reasons why you may be addressing one person more than a group. Some (sub-/)peoples, on the contrary, find using the name a polite form of addressing. Some (sub-/)cultures have peculiarities you may not guess: call e.g. some (many) Russians by surname and they will start shaking as if insulted. The impact and perception depend. "Wol", "wolverine", or "wolverine876", there is no rule to surely identify how you will react to any of these. When a user inserts what looks like a personal name in the username in a community context, it is as if they introduced themselves - it is the identity hook they are providing.)
[deleted]
If you look around HN, I think you'll see that people refer to each other by username unless they know each other. That's my experience in other forums too.
I haven't seen any data indicating that this is much risk.
I saw in the news quite recently a young guy, German I think, died after getting pretty drunk, and his friends, trying to help, gave him too much water or non-alcoholic fluids. Just too much too quickly for kidneys to process iirc; will edit link in if I can find it.
So that's not to say a lot - that's one case and it was newsworthy here in the UK, i.e. international news if I remember correctly that he was German. But does happen.
(Ok I can't find that one specifically, but there are a bunch of other cases just searching 'died too much water' there are a bunch of news article, so, yeah, it happens, but not so much not to make the news.)
So that's not to say a lot - that's one case and it was newsworthy here in the UK, i.e. international news if I remember correctly that he was German. But does happen.
(Ok I can't find that one specifically, but there are a bunch of other cases just searching 'died too much water' there are a bunch of news article, so, yeah, it happens, but not so much not to make the news.)
the parent comment says hyponatremia in the next sentence, which is removing salts too far, so you're agreeing!
I intended to expand, not to disagree :) (but the texts do not flow properly because I in fact read something different - I must have been very tired, if unedited). Nonetheless, different statements on the same point can be very useful, as different voices have different efficacies in passing similar information (one skips this, misreads that but gets an other).
Yes, hyponatremia is one possible consequence of overdrinking. I understand that the concentration of salts can be more important of their presence, so over-diluting or under-diluting have consequences.
Yes, hyponatremia is one possible consequence of overdrinking. I understand that the concentration of salts can be more important of their presence, so over-diluting or under-diluting have consequences.
6L in one hour can kill you, not in one day.
Yeah it's a bit sad the BBC article starts with saying you need to drink 6 to 8 glasses of water daily, which is a myth, which the BBC has written about multiple times before e.g.: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190403-how-much-water-s....
Drinking too much is rare, but still it happens and it's rooted in misinformation about minimum drinking requirements that's unfortunately not rare, but rather a very common piece of misinformation.
Surprising to see it on the NHS website too (of course, without any source, but still the claim is made).
Drinking too much is rare, but still it happens and it's rooted in misinformation about minimum drinking requirements that's unfortunately not rare, but rather a very common piece of misinformation.
Surprising to see it on the NHS website too (of course, without any source, but still the claim is made).
> There's this cult of drinking water - with people insisting you should drink more and more water - until people are drinking ludicrous quantities
> I've seen someone collapse from hyponatremia from drinking too much water
I've never heard of this or seen it. Have other people?
> I've seen someone collapse from hyponatremia from drinking too much water
I've never heard of this or seen it. Have other people?
> I've never heard of this or seen it.
Hyponatremia? Yeah it's documented https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hyponatremia/.... When you hear about people dying from ecstasy it's usually actually hyponatremia I believe.
Hyponatremia? Yeah it's documented https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hyponatremia/.... When you hear about people dying from ecstasy it's usually actually hyponatremia I believe.
I've heard of hyponatremia, but not this cult of drinking so much water.
Hydrohomies, at least.
No. But, I have heard of people acting weird from drinking too much water - after playing game designed to make you drink ridiculous amounts. No collaps tho. Just acting weird (sort of like after alcohol) and discomfort when drinking next cup.
The game was stupid, but no collapse or health issue beyond discomfort after drinking a lot. Which makes me thing it is not easy at all to drink to issue.
The game was stupid, but no collapse or health issue beyond discomfort after drinking a lot. Which makes me thing it is not easy at all to drink to issue.
Ironically, many people think it is perfectly normal to play the same game with alcohol and collapse.
You can actually cause kidney failure from drinking too much water.
Citation needed.
pretty much every response on this article has talked about the health problems from drinking too much water, but if you don't want to read up on any of that, maybe the Mayo Clinic will help. hopefully that's enough "citation" other than what The whole article and all of the responses are about.
I googled it for you:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...
I googled it for you:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...
No Jerry, I was asking for citations about kidney failure caused by excess water consumption. Hyponatremia is not kidney failure.
Frankly, I live under the understanding that it's semi common knowledge / sense. The body is finite. It has limits. Exceeding those limits and undesirable things happen.
https://www.freseniuskidneycare.com/thrive-central/hypervole...
https://www.renalandurologynews.com/home/news/too-much-water...
https://www.freseniuskidneycare.com/thrive-central/hypervole...
https://www.renalandurologynews.com/home/news/too-much-water...
No mention of kidney failure in the linked articles.
Again, you’ve linked to a page with general information on kidney failure. There’s no mention of drinking too much water causing kidney failure…
Let's start here: "Kidney failure means your kidneys no longer work well enough to do these jobs and, as a result, other health problems develop..."
That is, if you overwhelm your kidneys they will fail. This issue here isn't the links, it's an inability to interpret the clinical facts and apply them to real life.
That is, if you overwhelm your kidneys they will fail. This issue here isn't the links, it's an inability to interpret the clinical facts and apply them to real life.
It appears that the answer is "yes", especially if supplemented by a piece of fruit to replace minerals and nutrients. And even tea and coffee are fine provided that your body is relatively used to dealing with caffeine.
Why consuming water from caffeine-containing drinks is different from consuming pure water? I've heard many times that drinking tea doesn't count into these daily water-consumption goals, but no one mentions why.
> Why consuming water from caffeine-containing drinks is different from consuming pure water
From the article:
> Some people worry caffeinated drinks dehydrate us, but this is only true when we drink large doses of caffeine and not enough water.
> Caffeinated drinks do make the body produce more urine, but they also contain water, which will usually more than compensate for the fluid caffeine makes you lose, says Maughan. In fact, he says, tea and coffee are a good way to hydrate because we're likely to drink more of something we enjoy.
> "Coffee contributes to daily fluid requirements, and in regular coffee-drinkers, the kidneys adapt to retain fluid from coffee," she says. "There's no reason moderate amounts of coffee or tea would dehydrate those who are used to having regular caffeine."
From the article:
> Some people worry caffeinated drinks dehydrate us, but this is only true when we drink large doses of caffeine and not enough water.
> Caffeinated drinks do make the body produce more urine, but they also contain water, which will usually more than compensate for the fluid caffeine makes you lose, says Maughan. In fact, he says, tea and coffee are a good way to hydrate because we're likely to drink more of something we enjoy.
> "Coffee contributes to daily fluid requirements, and in regular coffee-drinkers, the kidneys adapt to retain fluid from coffee," she says. "There's no reason moderate amounts of coffee or tea would dehydrate those who are used to having regular caffeine."
Caffeine is a diuretic (meaning that it causes you to produce more urine). It doesn't help your hydration levels if you drink something, and then immediately urinate it back out.
That said, if you're past risk of dehydration, it probably doesn't make that much difference.
That said, if you're past risk of dehydration, it probably doesn't make that much difference.
Per the article, it's not so much of a diuretic that you lose everything you put in.
The diuretic effect of caffeine. But if you're a habitual coffee drinker your body gets used to the caffeine.
Caffeine is a diuretic so seems plausible that coffee or tea could have a net-negative impact on hydration. Not sure what's true in practice though.
The net diuretic effect of the 95mg of caffeine found in 8oz of brewed coffee is fare less than 8oz.
Not according to the article, which indicates a positive net impact.
Only in regular caffeine consumers right? Seems like an “it depends”
Format probably matters too: There fluid to caffeine ratio is much different in an espresso.
Caffeine is a diuretic (it makes you urinate more). So the increased fluid intake is somewhat offset by increased output.
A colleague on mine who once ran an ecological survey in the desert mentioned that her fluid of choice for extreme dry heat was V8. Pretty much anything else would cause horrible salt deprivation.
I read somewhere about surviving being stranded at sea, that losing salt is not really an issue. The body doesn't care about how much salt it has, only what the concentration of salt is in the blood. As you lose water due to sweating, even through sweat does have some salt, overall the body is losing more water than salt, and therefore blood salt concentration increases. Of course over long periods you will deplete your salt reserves, but this will take a while.
So drink more water than V8 or gatorade to keep you balanced.
> The body doesn't care about how much salt it has, only what the concentration of salt is in the blood. As you lose water due to sweating, even through sweat does have some salt, overall the body is losing more water than salt, and therefore blood salt concentration increases. Of course over long periods you will deplete your salt reserves, but this will take a while.
That is contrary to medical advice, which is that you need to replace electrolytes after you sweat a lot.
That is contrary to medical advice, which is that you need to replace electrolytes after you sweat a lot.
That's assuming you are drinking water, which parent was not.
> The Kon-Tiki voyage had proved that ancient navigators were able to survive in the ocean by hydrating themselves with fish juice and drinking seawater mixed with fresh water in a ratio of 2:3.
https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/leading-figures/how-...
https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/leading-figures/how-...
I was wondering how fish juice is defined, and it sounds gross:
> The most critical need, hydration, would be solved by squeezing the fluid from the fish and collecting rainwater, supplemented with small doses of seawater that did not exceed one litre a day—one tablespoon at intervals of 20 minutes, allowing the saliva to dilute the salt in the mouth.
> The most critical need, hydration, would be solved by squeezing the fluid from the fish and collecting rainwater, supplemented with small doses of seawater that did not exceed one litre a day—one tablespoon at intervals of 20 minutes, allowing the saliva to dilute the salt in the mouth.
> I was wondering how fish juice is defined
I once stayed at a Caribbean resort where they had a chilled machine labelled "cow juice". I assumed it was milk, but was not brave enough to try it.
I once stayed at a Caribbean resort where they had a chilled machine labelled "cow juice". I assumed it was milk, but was not brave enough to try it.
Drinking sea-turtle blood has been key to a few stranded at sea people's survival.
Lots of good information but the writing style is very scattered and wordy
Shit country army hydration "pack": half a teaspoon of sugar, half a teaspoon of salt to ~1L of water.
Tastes like shit, but damn it cures hangovers. Also, probably hydrates.
Tastes like shit, but damn it cures hangovers. Also, probably hydrates.
CCC electrolyte drink:
- half liter bottle of water
- add half a TABLEspoon of sugar
- add half a TEAspoon of salt
- top off with orange juice
https://cert.ccc.de/old//index.php?title=WHO-Drink
Haven't tried it myself but I've heard that it does not taste like shit.
- half liter bottle of water
- add half a TABLEspoon of sugar
- add half a TEAspoon of salt
- top off with orange juice
https://cert.ccc.de/old//index.php?title=WHO-Drink
Haven't tried it myself but I've heard that it does not taste like shit.
There's also a recipe for an Oral Rehydration Solution:
https://rehydrate.org/solutions/homemade.htm
6 teasponfuls of sugar, 1/2 of salt, 1 liter of water, done.
https://rehydrate.org/solutions/homemade.htm
6 teasponfuls of sugar, 1/2 of salt, 1 liter of water, done.
Why do the directions use both imperial and metric measurements?
Standard German recipe measurements. This refers to an actual tea- and tablespoon, and may not match measuring cups denoted in imperial units.
the fuck is an "actual" tea or table spoon
The thing you find in your cutlery drawer.
As in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Loeffel_03.JPG not https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MeasuringSpoons.jpg
I just measured mine using a scale and my teaspoon is around 4 ml when filled with water (probably closer to 3 ml when not heaped and no surface tension), my tablespoon around 9 ml, so close enough I guess.
As in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Loeffel_03.JPG not https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MeasuringSpoons.jpg
I just measured mine using a scale and my teaspoon is around 4 ml when filled with water (probably closer to 3 ml when not heaped and no surface tension), my tablespoon around 9 ml, so close enough I guess.
It's what plants crave!
That movie should have been a comedy, and it's slowly turning itself into a documentary.
Maybe they finally got the time machine working and sent it back as a warning.
Your proportions are off. More sugar, much less salt.
For 1 litre / 1 quart, you'd add about 2 tablespoons (about 30--35g) sugar, and "a pinch" (1--2 g) of salt.
https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Your-Own-Fluid-Replacement-Drin...
For 1 litre / 1 quart, you'd add about 2 tablespoons (about 30--35g) sugar, and "a pinch" (1--2 g) of salt.
https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Your-Own-Fluid-Replacement-Drin...
It depends if you're eating anything else. Managing sugar is less of an issue since snacking as you go is usually possible. Your body is pretty good at telling you went to eat more, but knowing when to supplement salt is less intuitive.
Salt concentrations are tricky too. Saline solution is ~3500mg/L of sodium, but that's over kill for drinking. Since you reabsorb some sodium when you sweat (less if you sweat more), you wouldn't want to replace lost water with an isotonic mixture.
Salt concentrations are tricky too. Saline solution is ~3500mg/L of sodium, but that's over kill for drinking. Since you reabsorb some sodium when you sweat (less if you sweat more), you wouldn't want to replace lost water with an isotonic mixture.
As I understand the principle, the sugar/salt balance and ratio help the liquid be absorbed quickly into the body. The goal is an ~isotonic solution.
My rationale is that the recipe should be free-standing and not presume other feeding. If that's a consideration, it's not part of the baseline assumptions and formula.
My principle beef with the suggestion I'd replied to is that it has far too much salt, more than I've seen suggested in any other sources I've run across.
My rationale is that the recipe should be free-standing and not presume other feeding. If that's a consideration, it's not part of the baseline assumptions and formula.
My principle beef with the suggestion I'd replied to is that it has far too much salt, more than I've seen suggested in any other sources I've run across.
Why believe Wikihow and not the other sources posted?
WikiHow matches numerous other references and my own earlier research. Numerous other people have posted similar recipes / ratios.
If you've specific information that Wikihow is not reliable in this case, I'd be happy to see it.
If you've specific information that Wikihow is not reliable in this case, I'd be happy to see it.
What you trust is up to you, of course. I'd just go with health authorities, which are easy enough to find. But to pick on the broader epistemological questions:
> If you've specific information that Wikihow is not reliable in this case, I'd be happy to see it.
I think it's reasonable, and necessary, to say that the burden of proof is on the source (i.e. Wikihow); it's not up to others to establish their credibility. Imagine submitting a paper that makes a claim and says only 'prove it wrong'. The Internet is filled with unsubstantiated claims; not only do they do a lot of harm, practically readers don't have time to do the substantiating for them.
> Numerous other people have posted similar recipes / ratios.
In this day and age, we know that 'numerous people' is not evidence of accuracy.
> If you've specific information that Wikihow is not reliable in this case, I'd be happy to see it.
I think it's reasonable, and necessary, to say that the burden of proof is on the source (i.e. Wikihow); it's not up to others to establish their credibility. Imagine submitting a paper that makes a claim and says only 'prove it wrong'. The Internet is filled with unsubstantiated claims; not only do they do a lot of harm, practically readers don't have time to do the substantiating for them.
> Numerous other people have posted similar recipes / ratios.
In this day and age, we know that 'numerous people' is not evidence of accuracy.
Again: Wikihow's ratios correspond to what I've seen previously, it was a handy reference.
Given that we're contrasting it to Some Guy on Hacker News, of the two, I'd tend to go with the more-reviewed site.
Your quesition is a fair one. I've answered it. But rather than actually confirm or refute the reference cited ... you're engaging in meta arguments. Given the ease of finding confirming or disproving evidence, that's ... kind of tedious.
If you'd prefer University of Virginia Medical School, their recipe is:
Homemade Oral Rehydration Solution Recipes Base Beverage Recipe Water 1 quart water ¾ teaspoon table salt 2 Tablespoons sugar
https://med.virginia.edu/ginutrition/wp-content/uploads/site...
Given that we're contrasting it to Some Guy on Hacker News, of the two, I'd tend to go with the more-reviewed site.
Your quesition is a fair one. I've answered it. But rather than actually confirm or refute the reference cited ... you're engaging in meta arguments. Given the ease of finding confirming or disproving evidence, that's ... kind of tedious.
If you'd prefer University of Virginia Medical School, their recipe is:
Homemade Oral Rehydration Solution Recipes Base Beverage Recipe Water 1 quart water ¾ teaspoon table salt 2 Tablespoons sugar
https://med.virginia.edu/ginutrition/wp-content/uploads/site...
> we're contrasting it to Some Guy on Hacker News
We're not, afaik. In that and other points, I think you overlooked some parts of my comments or I didn't make them clearly enough, but I'm sure we both have better things to do!
We're not, afaik. In that and other points, I think you overlooked some parts of my comments or I didn't make them clearly enough, but I'm sure we both have better things to do!
Related I learned to just get oral rehydration salts when I worked at an NGO. Good for hydration on a hot day. But also an amazing hangover cure.
I've read 1 liter water, 8 teaspoons sugar, 1 teaspoon salt.
https://www.britannica.com/science/oral-rehydration-therapy
https://www.britannica.com/science/oral-rehydration-therapy
Interesting. Does it really tastes like shit however? That doesn’t sound like your favorite cocktail but it sounds drinkable. I should try.
It takes a couple of minutes to make, try it. I've used it a few times when I didn't have anything better (like literally any juice) and it was still near vomit inducing lol
It doesn't exactly taste good but when I drank it when I was walking on the Moors you don't really care because you're usually in need of the contents.
How much can you drink of this, responsibly?
Would 2-3L every day be ok?
Would 2-3L every day be ok?
"How much to drink" depends very much on circumstances. Giving a specific quantity benchmark is bad practice.
Drink if you're thirsty. Drink if your urine is limited or dark for no other apparent cause. (There are both dangerous and benign reasons for coloured urine, including internal bleeding (deep brown, very bad) and excess vitamin B (harmless, bright yellow), again, general guidance is difficult.)
An isotonic solution is most recommended where you're already dehydrated and are trying to re-hydrate rapidly. Under normal circumstances, it's not necessary. Drinking more than a couple of quarts / litres at a time (say, within 10 minutes) is probably excessive, and if you find yourself doing so you may have other problems.
Recommended daily sodium intake is < 2,300 mg, with an "ideal limit" of 1,500 mg/dy, though again this depends very heavily on circumstances.
https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-s...
If you believe what I read on the Intertubes, a person can sweat out nearly 1,500 mg of salt in an hour (1,300 here).
https://bikehike.org/how-much-salt-is-in-sweat/
Under most reasonable / normal conditions, we're again at a couple of litres of isotonic solution, though again, this can vary considerably.
Under heavy exercise I can easily drink 2--3 litres of water in a couple of hours, but that's with profuse sweat. I typically don't drink an isotonic solution, though I may mix up some in one of my two bike water bottles, or as an after-workout drink following a gym session.
Drink if you're thirsty. Drink if your urine is limited or dark for no other apparent cause. (There are both dangerous and benign reasons for coloured urine, including internal bleeding (deep brown, very bad) and excess vitamin B (harmless, bright yellow), again, general guidance is difficult.)
An isotonic solution is most recommended where you're already dehydrated and are trying to re-hydrate rapidly. Under normal circumstances, it's not necessary. Drinking more than a couple of quarts / litres at a time (say, within 10 minutes) is probably excessive, and if you find yourself doing so you may have other problems.
Recommended daily sodium intake is < 2,300 mg, with an "ideal limit" of 1,500 mg/dy, though again this depends very heavily on circumstances.
https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-s...
If you believe what I read on the Intertubes, a person can sweat out nearly 1,500 mg of salt in an hour (1,300 here).
https://bikehike.org/how-much-salt-is-in-sweat/
Under most reasonable / normal conditions, we're again at a couple of litres of isotonic solution, though again, this can vary considerably.
Under heavy exercise I can easily drink 2--3 litres of water in a couple of hours, but that's with profuse sweat. I typically don't drink an isotonic solution, though I may mix up some in one of my two bike water bottles, or as an after-workout drink following a gym session.
Are you seeking to drink as much as you can?
No, but I prefer to drink water with rehydration salts because of the taste.
Maybe if you hate yourself.
Classic learned it in the service as well. Tasted horrible but it works.
Interesting that they did not mention beer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Beer_Saved_the_World
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Beer_Saved_the_World
I do NuSalt with lemon Mio right before and after my runs.
Sodium & Potassium and tastes kinda like a margarita. Always keeps me well hydrated. Sometimes I'll also take a multimineral with it to get calcium and magnesium too.
Sodium & Potassium and tastes kinda like a margarita. Always keeps me well hydrated. Sometimes I'll also take a multimineral with it to get calcium and magnesium too.
Use it just like salt on all your favorite foods. It looks, pours and measures just like regular salt. But it's sodium free!
http://nusalt.com/
That doesn't sound great for rehydration ?
http://nusalt.com/
That doesn't sound great for rehydration ?
Pickle juice!
Alternatively, Sekanjibin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekanjabin)
And if you add 10:1 dilute gatorade and orange slices, you now have enough information to know where i’ve spent many summer vacations.
Alternatively, Sekanjibin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekanjabin)
And if you add 10:1 dilute gatorade and orange slices, you now have enough information to know where i’ve spent many summer vacations.
Thanks - do you have any knowledge about the hydrating properties of these drinks?
they’re all mixtures of water and electrolytes, so “pretty good!”
In Japan (and, for some reason, Australia and Mexico) you can buy a drink called "Pocari Sweat".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocari_Sweat
It's a soft drink specifically designed to avoid you getting hyponatremia, and was apparently inspired by doctors who would drink the contents of saline IV pouches.
Like many asian soft drinks it's not very sweet but it's not unpleasant. If you live on the US west coast you can find it in most Japanese supermarkets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocari_Sweat
It's a soft drink specifically designed to avoid you getting hyponatremia, and was apparently inspired by doctors who would drink the contents of saline IV pouches.
Like many asian soft drinks it's not very sweet but it's not unpleasant. If you live on the US west coast you can find it in most Japanese supermarkets.
Pocari Sweat is also sold all over south east Asia. Great to help ward off a hangover as well. Will second it isn’t a normal western flavored drink but I quite enjoyed it while I was living where it was available.
If you're in the West, you can usually buy the Pocari bags meant to be added to those big coolers of water for quite a bit cheaper than buying it premixed. I just throw in a scoop and add some to my water bottle as I feel the need.
This makes me think of little packets of Oral Rehydration Therapy. It’s sold in pharmacies for times of gastrointestinal distress that leads to dehydration. Sugar is added, not for palatability, but to increase electrolyte uptake in the GI tract.
> Oral Rehydration Therapy
Does anyone know a recipe or brand that tastes good?
I've tried different brands, and it all tasted too unpleasant to drink for me, though I didn't have a critical need for it.
I also made it at home [1], and tried adding some lemon juice to that recipe. The taste resembled a sports drink, but again wasn't sufficient to drink daily.
[1] 1 liter water, 8 tsp sugar, 1 tsp salt https://www.britannica.com/science/oral-rehydration-therapy
Does anyone know a recipe or brand that tastes good?
I've tried different brands, and it all tasted too unpleasant to drink for me, though I didn't have a critical need for it.
I also made it at home [1], and tried adding some lemon juice to that recipe. The taste resembled a sports drink, but again wasn't sufficient to drink daily.
[1] 1 liter water, 8 tsp sugar, 1 tsp salt https://www.britannica.com/science/oral-rehydration-therapy
Anything functional will taste like a dog’s breakfast. IV normal saline tastes absolutely awful
I never got the courage to try D5W or any other solutions.
1.5 cups orange juice, 2.5 cups water, 1 tsp salt. Comes out to about the same ratio, but doesn't taste like mud.
When you really need it, they taste amazing.
you'd have to drink so much water to get symptoms of hyponatremia you practically have to set out to make it happen. most people puke before it gets too bad. if you do get it and your wits are still about you, suck on a bouillon cube, or eat a tablespoon of gatorade powder.
anyway i prefer boss coffee. the boss of all bosses. or bickle.
anyway i prefer boss coffee. the boss of all bosses. or bickle.
A DC cop died of hyponatremia some years ago. I remember being amazed at the amount of water he had drunk.
[edit: changed "killed himself with" to "died of"; the man wasn't suicidal]
[edit: changed "killed himself with" to "died of"; the man wasn't suicidal]
It's fairly common in athletes. 13% of the marathon runners tested [0] had hyponatremia. This was at the Boston Marathon, a fairly exclusive race with experienced runners.
[0] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa043901
[0] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa043901
Runners with slower times, over 4 hours, seemed to be more likely to suffer. The announced qualifying times for the 2022 Boston Marathon include 3:55 for women 50 to 54 and 3:50 for men 60 to 64.
Running a marathon (or any endurance evening) is an extreme activity that is in the category of "make it happen". It burns double or more the calories of any pro sport.
The Tommy Lee Jones coffee.
Pocari Sweat is 67g/L of sugar and 490mg/L. This is on par with western sports drinks like Gatorade(59g/L sugar, 523mg/L sodium)or Powerade (57g/L sugar, 409mg/L sodium). This is less sweet than typical sugary drinks which can be 10-15% sugar, but normal for a sports drink.
Sports drinks certainly help if you are sweating moderately, but are inadequate for intense exercise in the heat. When you are sweating intensely (>1L/h of sweat), you can lose sodium at over 1000mg/L. Supplementing sodium and other electrolytes may be necessary.
Sports drinks certainly help if you are sweating moderately, but are inadequate for intense exercise in the heat. When you are sweating intensely (>1L/h of sweat), you can lose sodium at over 1000mg/L. Supplementing sodium and other electrolytes may be necessary.
> Pocari Sweat is 67g/L of sugar and 490mg/L. This is on par with western sports drinks like Gatorade(59g/L sugar, 523mg/L sodium)or Powerade (57g/L sugar, 409mg/L sodium).
As a comparison, for oral hydration, WHO/UNICEF has 13.5 g/L of glucose and 2.6 g/L of salt (NaCL) in their formula:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_rehydration_therapy
That's about 6 teaspoons of sugar and half a teaspoon of salt if all you have is volumetric measures.
For serious, medical dehydration use commercially-available oral rehydration salts: a homemade brew may not be enough (e.g., the packaged stuff also has potassium).
As a comparison, for oral hydration, WHO/UNICEF has 13.5 g/L of glucose and 2.6 g/L of salt (NaCL) in their formula:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_rehydration_therapy
That's about 6 teaspoons of sugar and half a teaspoon of salt if all you have is volumetric measures.
For serious, medical dehydration use commercially-available oral rehydration salts: a homemade brew may not be enough (e.g., the packaged stuff also has potassium).
2.6g/L of NaCL ends up being ~1000mg/L of sodium, which sounds about right.
Nusalt or equivalent provides potassium.
Powerade and Gatorade both have sugar free alternatives
Note that sugar increases absorption of sodium[1] into the body, so sugar-free alternatives won't be as effective.
[1] https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(97)70034-9/...
[1] https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(97)70034-9/...
I think this is mostly only an issue for people who need rehydration due to severe diarrhoea though.
It's important for any severe dehydration. Less severe dehydration means less water has been lost, and the loss of electrolytes is proportional to the amount of water loss. The absorbtion increase is important for cases of severe dehydration, but mild dehydration can often afford to wait for a meal to replenish the electrolytes fully.
As the article notes, it is not recommended to habitually consume sugary sport drinks unless you are exercising. It is simply unnecessary, ruins your teeth and the extra fast carbs will convert to body fat.
It is best to simply drink enough tap water with a meal. This will naturally balance the salt. If you are really concerned about your salt balance outside of meal hours, the article recommends you drink your tap water with a little snack like a banana, or drink milk or coconut water instead.
I've myself also used bottled spring water naturally high in minerals (mineral water). I find this water the best heat wave drink, but some brands are ruined by adding sugar or other sweeteners.
It is best to simply drink enough tap water with a meal. This will naturally balance the salt. If you are really concerned about your salt balance outside of meal hours, the article recommends you drink your tap water with a little snack like a banana, or drink milk or coconut water instead.
I've myself also used bottled spring water naturally high in minerals (mineral water). I find this water the best heat wave drink, but some brands are ruined by adding sugar or other sweeteners.
I worked on Tokyo in the '90s and remember Pocari Sweat - which tastes exactly how it sounds like it would taste.
Never did find out what sort of animal a Pocari is, or how they collected its sweat.
Never seen it in Australia (Victoria), but could imagine it would be in smaller speciality grocers in some regions.
Never did find out what sort of animal a Pocari is, or how they collected its sweat.
Never seen it in Australia (Victoria), but could imagine it would be in smaller speciality grocers in some regions.
It's available at many Japanese restaurants and Asian grocers in Sydney, but it's not a stock mainstream supermarket product.
You can also buy proper oral rehydration solution 経口補水 in drugstores and (I think) convenience stores. Works wonders for hangovers :)
Pocari is still very sweet and tends to upset my stomach a bit if I drink more than a cup or so.
Pocari is still very sweet and tends to upset my stomach a bit if I drink more than a cup or so.
Pocari is well known and available everywhere in Japan (that makes it pretty good choice when dealing with hangover) but OS-1 is better
https://www.os-1.jp/en/
Milk really doesn’t sound refreshing on a hot day. If anything, drinking milk would make me wanna drink water straight after to wash it down, even if it fully hydrated me.
The truth is, water is just fine on a hot day, and if you really do have a salt imbalance, it’s more likely that is related to hard physical activity combined with a hot day, in which case you’d know that a sports drink or salt tablets with water would be just fine. In most cases, water really is just fine. This article almost reads like it was sponsored by dairy product manufacturers.
The truth is, water is just fine on a hot day, and if you really do have a salt imbalance, it’s more likely that is related to hard physical activity combined with a hot day, in which case you’d know that a sports drink or salt tablets with water would be just fine. In most cases, water really is just fine. This article almost reads like it was sponsored by dairy product manufacturers.
> The truth is, water is just fine on a hot day, and if you really do have a salt imbalance, it’s more likely that is related to hard physical activity combined with a hot day
The article says exactly what you say
The article says exactly what you say
I've been drinking milk so long that I'm just the opposite: water makes my throat feel dry and makes me feel more parched than I was before. While I'm sure it's doing a fine job of hydrating me, it kind of sucks that it makes me feel more thirsty.
I exercise quite a bit in 30-35 degrees C and I sweat a ton (it’s not a bad thing as long as you stay hydrated; a natural liquid cooling!).
I use electrolyte tablets [0]. On longer rides I also tried Coke (classic) which was quite good too.
I’d bring about 1.5l per hour out, riding mountain bikes or enduro off road motorcycles.
I was told you need to sip slowly and that when dehydrated the first thing to go is your concentration.
[0] https://highfive.co.uk/products/zero?variant=39896116756639
I’d bring about 1.5l per hour out, riding mountain bikes or enduro off road motorcycles.
I was told you need to sip slowly and that when dehydrated the first thing to go is your concentration.
[0] https://highfive.co.uk/products/zero?variant=39896116756639
Any long-distance athlete would be intimately familiar with this trade off. At Ironman races you always see a non-trivial fraction end up with debilitating cramps, confusion, nausea + vomiting, or ultimately in the medical tent from low sodium or low glucose.
That said, I think "drink water" is still good blanket advice on average. Most athletes I know still drink far more water than the average person through the day, in addition to all the sport-specific fuelling.
That said, I think "drink water" is still good blanket advice on average. Most athletes I know still drink far more water than the average person through the day, in addition to all the sport-specific fuelling.
The BBC is a great organisation, but on the topic of milk on a hot day, I’m trusting the Channel 4 News team.
Turks have this traditional salty yogurt drink called "Ayran" for hot weather, which is pretty much like Salty Lassi in southern Asia. Americans usually get disgusted by the idea of having salt in their drink. I hope they'll eventually come to terms with it. It's hard to find good ayran in the states.
We don't mind it in sports drinks. Something like Gatorade has 270mg in a 20oz bottle. Although it is masked by sweetness.
I remember a scene from an Australian TV series in the '80s called The Flying Doctors where one of the characters was stranded in the outback.
At one point he took out a pouch of salt, ate a pinch of it before taking a swig of water.
Don't know why, but that scene always stuck. Now I know why he did it!
At one point he took out a pouch of salt, ate a pinch of it before taking a swig of water.
Don't know why, but that scene always stuck. Now I know why he did it!
On a very hot day after a lot of arduous exercise I've seen someone collapse from hyponatremia from drinking too much water - washed everything out of their system because they thought they had to drink sixteen litres a day or something.
Calm down and just drink a reasonable quantity of water slowly over time, and combine that with eating full meals which people tend to put off if it's hot, making everything worse.