LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser(ludotune.com)
ludotune.com
LudoTune, a 3D music sequencer in the browser
https://ludotune.com/
53 comments
Nicely done!
It’s a neat game. I wouldn’t call it a great tool because it’s impossible for me to interpret the music from the blocks themselves without playing it. That being said I’m sure that wasn’t the original intent of the app!
2D info is much easier for me to decipher.
It’s a neat game. I wouldn’t call it a great tool because it’s impossible for me to interpret the music from the blocks themselves without playing it. That being said I’m sure that wasn’t the original intent of the app!
2D info is much easier for me to decipher.
Yeah, its cool, its fun, but its not useful for actual real world composition, since its rather convoluted to work with and this final piece is incomprehensible, especially compared to a paino roll or similar.
But, of course, like you, I assume that's not the goal so it doesn't matter. It is cool and it is fun and that's all that's important.
And I'm very impressed by this example! garrettjoecox did a great job.
But, of course, like you, I assume that's not the goal so it doesn't matter. It is cool and it is fun and that's all that's important.
And I'm very impressed by this example! garrettjoecox did a great job.
I'm biased of course, but I think there are actually music-makers who enjoy novel and non-linear sequencers like this, particularly for idea generation / experimentation. Not saying it would have mainstream appeal, but there are considerations other than interpretability for some people. E.g. Conditional logic and probability cubes let you do things that can't be done on a normal piano roll. At least that's why I added MIDI output - for the people who want to connect it to their DAW or other MIDI device.
That's really awesome. Well done sir.
what song is this?
"Mad World" by Tears for Fears
Have to put my favorite version up here as well. Gary Jules on the Donnie Darko soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0y1kFxblmY
This is the version I based it off of
I think the Riverdale cover of it is more known among a lot of people.
https://music.apple.com/en/album/mad-world-feat-k-j-apa-cami...
It seems to be the version that they sample from in meme videos on YouTube and TikTok where they try to express a feeling of sadness either in honesty or ironically. Where they put the video in grayscale mode and put the part of this song over it that goes “all around me are familiar faces, worn out places” and so on.
They also use the song The Song of Silence by Simon & Garfunkel for this same purpose.
https://music.apple.com/en/album/the-sound-of-silence/192480...
This latter one is the one that goes “hello darkness my old friend” and so on.
https://music.apple.com/en/album/mad-world-feat-k-j-apa-cami...
It seems to be the version that they sample from in meme videos on YouTube and TikTok where they try to express a feeling of sadness either in honesty or ironically. Where they put the video in grayscale mode and put the part of this song over it that goes “all around me are familiar faces, worn out places” and so on.
They also use the song The Song of Silence by Simon & Garfunkel for this same purpose.
https://music.apple.com/en/album/the-sound-of-silence/192480...
This latter one is the one that goes “hello darkness my old friend” and so on.
Hey everyone, I'm the developer. Thanks for the nice comments! Happy to answer any questions.
I love the visual elements that drag the music out of the audiospectrum. As a visual person this speaks to me so much more than the traditional 2D way of representing music. It's really cool to see songs visually laid out in a 3D space.
What was your original intent with this project? I feel this would work very well for educational aspects, slightly comparable to sonic-pi, especially when it comes to how easy it is to make something nice.
What was your original intent with this project? I feel this would work very well for educational aspects, slightly comparable to sonic-pi, especially when it comes to how easy it is to make something nice.
Thanks that's great to hear! Initially I thought it would be a game/toy just because I personally thought it would be fun to build and share music like this.
The bulk of early users seem to enjoy it just for this as well, although I have had some requests to add more utility for music-makers (some want a LudoTune VST and others potentially a desktop or iPad app).
The educational angle has also been brought up a few times and I think that'd be great, so I'll probably be exploring that further too.
Former DAW developer here and Minecraft player here. This is a work of art. Really well done.
just want to say it's super cool and thanks for adding it to our world!
This had a surprisingly emotional effect on me. Something about watching and figuring out the patterns the music would take and loop back on itself etc engaged me in a way I can hardly believe. 5 stars.
This is very cool. I can immediately imagine something like this being useful in copy of Logic or Live. Very nice way to make a score tangible in 3D, and there's lots of fun stuff you could do with such a technique and generative + audiovisual approaches.
Couple of questions:
1) Have you thought about split view? Split view would be nice (front and back), hard to follow the playhead through the loop otherwise as it becomes hidden halfway through.
2) What do you think about some kind of piano roll? The way you encode pitch into color with a keyboard works but it's a little incompatible with the piano roll idiom conventionally used in most DAW software. Would be very cool to have a 3D piano roll.
Couple of questions:
1) Have you thought about split view? Split view would be nice (front and back), hard to follow the playhead through the loop otherwise as it becomes hidden halfway through.
2) What do you think about some kind of piano roll? The way you encode pitch into color with a keyboard works but it's a little incompatible with the piano roll idiom conventionally used in most DAW software. Would be very cool to have a 3D piano roll.
This is a cool idea. A first step before first party integration into a piano roll could be a vst with midi output. I know this can be done because of plugins like Xfer's Cthulu. I'd pay for that!
Yeah it would be cool to make a VST version, a few people have asked for that. In the meantime it is possible to ouptut midi from LudoTune in the browser and connect it to a DAW via a virtual midi device.
Split view is an interesting idea, hadn't considered that. I was thinking of maybe a cinematic playback mode though where the camera rotates and you can switch to different angles.
And yeah potentially some kind of piano roll representation could be cool to have alongside the 3D, so people can see (and maybe select / edit) cubes that way too. Not sure how to make a 3D piano roll though.
Okay, that's silly but also amazing. And interesting! It brings out the structural form of compositions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimTunes ; https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=SimTunes was a similar 2D music sequencer game.
https://go.ludotune.com/FbFy
Kinda reminds me of fugue machine https://alexandernaut.com/fuguemachine/
Kinda reminds me of fugue machine https://alexandernaut.com/fuguemachine/
Sat down for a few minutes and managed to get Fuzzbuzz working in the sequencer, which I guess means I'm now as good a programmer in this as I am in Java
https://go.ludotune.com/yxRp
https://go.ludotune.com/yxRp
haha this is great
Question for the dev: What tools/libraries did you use for creating the UI and connecting it to Tone.js? I tried taking a look into the code and using whatruns but couldn't figure it out. Mind shedding some light on this?
Great job!
Great job!
That was cool. It reminded me of Orca, but in 3D.
https://metasyn.github.io/learn-orca/
https://metasyn.github.io/learn-orca/
The program doesn't really run at a constant rate and keeps stuttering so the rythms are all over the place. Too bad because otherwise it seems like a cool concept.
Ah I'm sorry you're having that problem. The audio is scheduled accurately with the web audio api (using Tone.js), but on some devices performance could still be an issue. The best experience is definitely with Chrome or Firefox on desktop/laptop (Safari or mobile devices may not work as well). If you think your device should be capable of running it smoothly (or the frame rate is good, but the audio isn't) it could help me out to know which OS and Browser you're using.
This link posted above stutters reliably on my box, always at the same spots: https://go.ludotune.com/hui4
Win10, FF 91.0.1 64-bit
Stutters at ~24 seconds, ~32, maybe 1:30ish, 5 seconds after that... then I lost track. Not very often but when it does it's very jarring. Happens if it's running in the foreground or background, even if I'm not moving around or anything, just listening with tab in focus.
Win10, FF 91.0.1 64-bit
Stutters at ~24 seconds, ~32, maybe 1:30ish, 5 seconds after that... then I lost track. Not very often but when it does it's very jarring. Happens if it's running in the foreground or background, even if I'm not moving around or anything, just listening with tab in focus.
Linux, firefox 91, gtx 1660 ti, ryzen 3550h.
I think it should run smooth because I can play minecraft at 1440p at around 100 fps.
For me the Mad World one stutters before a single note is played: the repeater/clock seems to run, then stop, then "catches up", then stutters again, then one cycle smooth, etc. Sometimes notes are also just skipped, or only the last part of the soundbite is played.
I looked at cpu usage and it pegs a single thread to about 90% so maybe that explains it.
I think it should run smooth because I can play minecraft at 1440p at around 100 fps.
For me the Mad World one stutters before a single note is played: the repeater/clock seems to run, then stop, then "catches up", then stutters again, then one cycle smooth, etc. Sometimes notes are also just skipped, or only the last part of the soundbite is played.
I looked at cpu usage and it pegs a single thread to about 90% so maybe that explains it.
Listen the fact you can get good and compatible experience on Tone.js at any level is hugely impressive!
I have given up on any Web Audio that is not a single AudioWorklet with some kind of self contained wasm ugen
I have given up on any Web Audio that is not a single AudioWorklet with some kind of self contained wasm ugen
Great concept. Making music is hard. Such experiments with visual manipulation of music can help make it easier.
Should we try to make it easier?
Yes, we should try to make everything easier!
I'm glad we have cars because sometimes I just want to get from A to B fast. (Maybe someone just wants to enjoy making some light music through a fake book or light up keys.)
Other times, I enjoy hiking half a day because you see a lot of interesting things along the way, and the experience itself is rewarding for other reasons. (Like, conquering a challenging etude works my brain in a certain way and is satisfying.)
Tons of people will opt to make music via the easier option. But many will still try the difficult path, because it is rewarding and your skills compound over time.
And sometimes, a person who first does it the easy way decides that he/she wants to do it the harder way. People like to learn!
I'm glad we have cars because sometimes I just want to get from A to B fast. (Maybe someone just wants to enjoy making some light music through a fake book or light up keys.)
Other times, I enjoy hiking half a day because you see a lot of interesting things along the way, and the experience itself is rewarding for other reasons. (Like, conquering a challenging etude works my brain in a certain way and is satisfying.)
Tons of people will opt to make music via the easier option. But many will still try the difficult path, because it is rewarding and your skills compound over time.
And sometimes, a person who first does it the easy way decides that he/she wants to do it the harder way. People like to learn!
Are you proposing making it easier causes some detriment?
No. I'm asking why we want it to be easier.
You can make getting from A to B easier (and faster), by replacing walking with cycling. You make it even easier with a bus, and easier still with a car. In some circumstances, this is valuable and should be welcomed. But it's a mistake to think that moving from A to B in a car is actually the same experience as doing so on foot.
I'm suggesting that this might be true of making music also.
You can make getting from A to B easier (and faster), by replacing walking with cycling. You make it even easier with a bus, and easier still with a car. In some circumstances, this is valuable and should be welcomed. But it's a mistake to think that moving from A to B in a car is actually the same experience as doing so on foot.
I'm suggesting that this might be true of making music also.
>I'm suggesting that this might be true of making music also.
No, it isn't, because unlike with getting from point A to point B, the end result isn't always the same with music making.
Music, in that aspect, is more like writing code or visual arts. Printing and photography becoming widely available didn't make visual arts worse, they did the opposite, because instead of focusing on just technical proficiency, the art was forced to move in a more creative direction.
With programming, us not punching cards with code and not using assembly as the primary language didn't make things worse, it just allowed us to go on a higher level and create things that would be unthinkable without that.
Same with music making. Being able to record a virtual orchestra in your bedroom studio doesn't make music as art worse, it opens up way more room for things that weren't even possible before. Just by definition, when it becomes much easier and really accessible to record something in your bedroom, which previously only a few extremely rich people in the world with tons of experienced staff could do, it allows for art to evolve faster and move forward just by the sheer drive of all the people who now have access to contribute to it.
No, it isn't, because unlike with getting from point A to point B, the end result isn't always the same with music making.
Music, in that aspect, is more like writing code or visual arts. Printing and photography becoming widely available didn't make visual arts worse, they did the opposite, because instead of focusing on just technical proficiency, the art was forced to move in a more creative direction.
With programming, us not punching cards with code and not using assembly as the primary language didn't make things worse, it just allowed us to go on a higher level and create things that would be unthinkable without that.
Same with music making. Being able to record a virtual orchestra in your bedroom studio doesn't make music as art worse, it opens up way more room for things that weren't even possible before. Just by definition, when it becomes much easier and really accessible to record something in your bedroom, which previously only a few extremely rich people in the world with tons of experienced staff could do, it allows for art to evolve faster and move forward just by the sheer drive of all the people who now have access to contribute to it.
One of my go-to examples in this domain is to look back at the career of the composer Steve Reich. Living in NYC, it wasn't so difficult for him to find performers to realize the (then radical) musical ideas he was experimenting with in the late 1960s and early 1970s. If Reich had been living in Smalltownsville, SomeState it could have been much, much more challenging (arguably close to impossible). So in this sense, the accessibility of contemporary digital audio workstation technology [0] makes it more feasible for anyone with musical ideas to explore them, and we should celebrate this.
However, the path that Reich did actually follow underscores the senses in which making music is so often a social activity, and there is no doubt based on interviews with Reich that having/choosing to work with other human musicians changed the evolution of his music. Not everyone likes his music, and of those who do, some might have preferred the direction it might have gone had Reich been an Ableton Live user. Nevertheless, I continue to believe that music as a social activity is critical to almost all good-to-great music, and that contemporary technology frequently undermines that.
[0] perhaps paradoxically, I am the author of just such a piece of technology.
However, the path that Reich did actually follow underscores the senses in which making music is so often a social activity, and there is no doubt based on interviews with Reich that having/choosing to work with other human musicians changed the evolution of his music. Not everyone likes his music, and of those who do, some might have preferred the direction it might have gone had Reich been an Ableton Live user. Nevertheless, I continue to believe that music as a social activity is critical to almost all good-to-great music, and that contemporary technology frequently undermines that.
[0] perhaps paradoxically, I am the author of just such a piece of technology.
>I continue to believe that music as a social activity is critical to almost all good-to-great music, and that contemporary technology frequently undermines that.
Agreed on it being a social activity, but disagreed on contemporary approaches undermining the social aspect of it. Sure, it gives you an option to be more asocial when it comes to making music, but it also gives you ability to be more social than ever before.
Ableton Live has a remote collaboration feature now, so you can work on music together with people who are thousands of miles away from you. Quite a bunch of software solutions are available that make jamming together and recording music with people separated from you (by distance) easy and fun. Something like Splice Studio[0] is a godsend for remote DAW sync and collaboration.
0. https://splice.com/blog/how-to-use-splice-studio/
Agreed on it being a social activity, but disagreed on contemporary approaches undermining the social aspect of it. Sure, it gives you an option to be more asocial when it comes to making music, but it also gives you ability to be more social than ever before.
Ableton Live has a remote collaboration feature now, so you can work on music together with people who are thousands of miles away from you. Quite a bunch of software solutions are available that make jamming together and recording music with people separated from you (by distance) easy and fun. Something like Splice Studio[0] is a godsend for remote DAW sync and collaboration.
0. https://splice.com/blog/how-to-use-splice-studio/
I can agree that this is a differet experience than other ways of composing, but I think that's a good thing. Walking from A-B let's you experience the travel in detail, driving let's you visit more places in the same time. Both have their benefits, but you can't say one is better than the other without a specific use case in mind. In a more literal view, LudoTune offers a set of conviences and constraints that aren't had with other systems. Combined, those changes will encourage exploration and the growth of new ideas.
While it was before my time, I'm sure the development of synthesizers and sampling audio tracks were considered by some to be shortening the travel-time between A and B, but those became influential in modern music. Maybe this isn't the next big thing in music, but it could be, and I'm curious to see how far it can be taken.
While it was before my time, I'm sure the development of synthesizers and sampling audio tracks were considered by some to be shortening the travel-time between A and B, but those became influential in modern music. Maybe this isn't the next big thing in music, but it could be, and I'm curious to see how far it can be taken.
This isn’t going to replace other ways of making music, in the same way that people still walk and cycle even though cars exist
An aside from my own life that I found interesting: for a long time I thought "surely there's a way, electronically or otherwise, to have an easier more ergonomic interface to making guitar-like music than a guitar". Then I learned to actually play the guitar and realised just how much control over the sound you have and how expressive it is and realised that replacing that with something easier would actually be pretty damn hard.
I wasn't suggesting that. My remark/question was about the general idea that we should try to make making music easier.
Does anybody know of anything that can make music like this without being 3D? Like, anything more "practical" in a sense? I think some of the tunes here are really nice.
A few people have told me it reminds them of Orca, although I haven't tried it out yet myself: https://hundredrabbits.itch.io/orca
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https://go.ludotune.com/oAJQ
Pretty fun!
Pretty fun!
This is beautiful! Just looking at then listening to the featured songs is so much fun :)
Here’s my newest creation https://go.ludotune.com/hui4