Regular exercisers drink more but are less likely to be problem drinkers – study(outsideonline.com)
outsideonline.com
Regular exercisers drink more but are less likely to be problem drinkers – study
https://www.outsideonline.com/health/running/exercise-alcohol-research/
104 comments
I think there is another explanation being overlooked… exercise is often social in nature - basketball games, yoga classes, lifting with a buddy, etc. It seems only natural this would extend to going out for food and drinks afterwards. Anecdotal, but this was definitely the case when I was regularly going to the gym.
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In addition, I’d expect that problem drinking (the drinking and the underlying cause) would have a depressing effect on the likelihood to participate in recreational sports activities. In that way, it might be selecting against problem drinkers.
Not sure what the norm is, but for me exercise is a totally solitary activity. I live in the middle of nowhere and run every day the weather permits. I do long hikes on weekends when I don't work.
Same here except I live in a city with millions. I run at night on quiet streets.
I'd be curious what percentage of people who regularly exercise do it socially. I always viewed it as a solo activity and would have previously disagreed with you, but my partner started going to the gym with her friends a few years ago, and since then I have noticed this a lot more with others.
I'd be curious to see how this breaks down by job or financial position as well. (I think) that exercise in adults generally correlates with wealth. To some extent I think that drinking does too, because of social situations, work stress, and work travel.
If not wealth specifically, then definitely with traditional "type A" jobs
If not wealth specifically, then definitely with traditional "type A" jobs
I think the word we're looking for here is "conscientiousness."
Most c-level execs I know both exercise and drink against stress. Both seem like 'problems' as they come from stress. They would do neither as excessive if the stress levels were low.
This mirrors my experience with a lot of professionals in high stress jobs. I'd like to know why people down-modded you.
This. Also, working out and drinking can both be expensive (gym membership, bars, etc)
Working out is literally free.
It is the difference between buying expensive healthy food and going to a trainer who will tell you the most effective way to get in shape, and eating cheap unhealthy food that makes you feel bad and the trying to figure out how to exercise on your own.
Wealthy people certainly have an easier path to getting in shape
I know too many broke athletes to believe that.
Exactly. Just do _something_. You do not need a trainer or fancy equipment.
Don't buy "healthy food". Buy basic food.
Get raw grains, get basic non-fancy non-organic veggies. Frozen or canned is fine.
If you eat meat, don't be shy about using cheaper cuts. Trimming meat is easy.
Trainers are great, but most people get trainers to help with motivation. You can also usually snag a free or very cheap single lesson with a trainer if you need particular things (nutrition, form) spot checked.
You really don't need to spend much.
Get raw grains, get basic non-fancy non-organic veggies. Frozen or canned is fine.
If you eat meat, don't be shy about using cheaper cuts. Trimming meat is easy.
Trainers are great, but most people get trainers to help with motivation. You can also usually snag a free or very cheap single lesson with a trainer if you need particular things (nutrition, form) spot checked.
You really don't need to spend much.
> most people get trainers to help with motivation.
Assuming poor and rich people have exact same level of motivation, this alone is guaranteed to lead to poor people exercising less.
From own experience, exercising by myself do tend to lead to repetitive routine that plateau pretty fast and gets demotivating due to no progress. But I used app rather then trainer.
Assuming poor and rich people have exact same level of motivation, this alone is guaranteed to lead to poor people exercising less.
From own experience, exercising by myself do tend to lead to repetitive routine that plateau pretty fast and gets demotivating due to no progress. But I used app rather then trainer.
> exercising by myself do tend to lead to repetitive routine that plateau pretty fast and gets demotivating due to no progress
You don't need to make continual progress to get benefits from exercise. You just need to be active.
You don't need to make continual progress to get benefits from exercise. You just need to be active.
It gets super demotivating and boring then. It turns into something like washing dishes, except less interesting and takes more time. At which point, you start to think that you might have to do something useful with that time - like cleaning, spending time with kids or reading/relaxing.
And from what I observed, I am not special snowflake in that regard.
And from what I observed, I am not special snowflake in that regard.
Really? Even if you just do calisthenics in your home, you still need the space, the free time, and the lack of distractions, not to mention being blessed with the focus to do something so boring.
I'm a pretty hardcore runner (but also hate buying unnecessary things) and spend thousands of dollars a year on shoes and shorts. I weigh 200 pounds and run 300km per month, shoes do not last, and good ones make a difference. And again, I'm only able to have the time to do it due to life circumstances that haven't burdened me with other responsibilities.
Most other sports have gear or memberships that make them more expensive. Many people can't stick to a regular workout regimen and a lot of people I know only were able to when they paid big bucks for a personal trainer.
Yeah, it's possible to work out without money, but I wouldn't pretend it's free, and it only gets easier with money.
I'm a pretty hardcore runner (but also hate buying unnecessary things) and spend thousands of dollars a year on shoes and shorts. I weigh 200 pounds and run 300km per month, shoes do not last, and good ones make a difference. And again, I'm only able to have the time to do it due to life circumstances that haven't burdened me with other responsibilities.
Most other sports have gear or memberships that make them more expensive. Many people can't stick to a regular workout regimen and a lot of people I know only were able to when they paid big bucks for a personal trainer.
Yeah, it's possible to work out without money, but I wouldn't pretend it's free, and it only gets easier with money.
> you still need the space, the free time, and the lack of distractions, not to mention being blessed with the focus to do something so boring.
Facepalm.
Facepalm.
I don’t think you’re making much of a case here. Money doesn’t generally buy you free time, lack of distractions and focus. The space needed can be pretty minimal.
I do think running is probably easier for middle-class people to get into, not because of the equipment (it’s fine if it works for you, but I have no idea how you could spend that much — few will need to). I think middle-class people just are a lot more likely to be living in places that are nice to run around in.
But there are many forms of exercise and various options for limited space and budgets. Bodyweight/calisthenics, e.g., and basic weight-lifting.
I do think running is probably easier for middle-class people to get into, not because of the equipment (it’s fine if it works for you, but I have no idea how you could spend that much — few will need to). I think middle-class people just are a lot more likely to be living in places that are nice to run around in.
But there are many forms of exercise and various options for limited space and budgets. Bodyweight/calisthenics, e.g., and basic weight-lifting.
> Money doesn’t generally buy you free time, lack of distractions and focus. The space needed can be pretty minimal.
I don't agree. Money buys a nanny, a housekeeper, uber eats, shorter commute or work from home... all of these can be a major factor in having the time and focus to exercise regularly.
I don't agree. Money buys a nanny, a housekeeper, uber eats, shorter commute or work from home... all of these can be a major factor in having the time and focus to exercise regularly.
Well, sort of.
Body-weight fitness, walking, jogging, running, hiking, swimming are all "free" to perform, but gear can be super expensive - take skiing, biking, water sports for example.
I recently went to a local bike shop (two in fact) and the average cost of a new modern bike is around ~$5,000.
There was one bike that I was looking at that was $15,000
Crazy expensive weekend warrior gear.
Body-weight fitness, walking, jogging, running, hiking, swimming are all "free" to perform, but gear can be super expensive - take skiing, biking, water sports for example.
I recently went to a local bike shop (two in fact) and the average cost of a new modern bike is around ~$5,000.
There was one bike that I was looking at that was $15,000
Crazy expensive weekend warrior gear.
You really really don't need $5000 bike to enjoy biking. That is absurdly expensive.
I don’t even know how you’d spend 15k on a bike. Maybe top of the line tt/tri with super expensive wheels. But even then. Id rather go full custom at that point.
5k should get you a super nice bike, stylish, modern and all that. Diminishing returns probably start well under half that.
Edit— I do know of a 14k bike, the Rene Hearse 80th anniversary edition. Handbuilt custom, and there are going to be 8 of them. I’d love to ride one, but … that’s a lot of money.
5k should get you a super nice bike, stylish, modern and all that. Diminishing returns probably start well under half that.
Edit— I do know of a 14k bike, the Rene Hearse 80th anniversary edition. Handbuilt custom, and there are going to be 8 of them. I’d love to ride one, but … that’s a lot of money.
In Folsom there is a guy named mark who has a full custom bike shop - mostly artisan style super roadsters (think LA Chopper style low rider bikes) -- the guy who makes them is a guy named Mark.
He charges typically around $16,000 for his creations. They are AMAZING looking bikes - but not my style at all.
The one I mentioned that was at Mikes Bikes in Folsom, was $15K - I cant recall the brand of that one, but it was a massive full suspension plus electric.
The Specialized there that was ~$12K was also full suspension electric..
The other high end store which is in downtown RoseVille...
Both places with lots of money... rich weekend warriors.
He charges typically around $16,000 for his creations. They are AMAZING looking bikes - but not my style at all.
The one I mentioned that was at Mikes Bikes in Folsom, was $15K - I cant recall the brand of that one, but it was a massive full suspension plus electric.
The Specialized there that was ~$12K was also full suspension electric..
The other high end store which is in downtown RoseVille...
Both places with lots of money... rich weekend warriors.
Ah. Electric. That's one way to really jack up the price.
I think you're looking in the wrong places. I recently bought a nice bike for $600 that worked great on a 100 mile ride. If I hadn't gone to the fancy, trendy bike co-op, it probably would've been cheaper.
Is a $100 bike from Walmart not sufficient to elevate your heart rate? Does riding it somehow not burn the "right" kind of calories?
Cheap Walmart bikes can be fine for fitness. The problem with them is the components are fragile and they tend to break quickly when used for intense training. A broken bike sitting in your garage isn't going to get your heart rate up.
It's free in terms of dollars.
It's very non-free in terms of time investment and spoons ([0]).
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory
It's very non-free in terms of time investment and spoons ([0]).
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory
As a daily runner: it might be because of the high you get after running/exercise. You’re never desperate for the drinking high because you can get it naturally running the next day.
I run a lot and it used to be like that, but now I'm desensitized so that sometimes even after I run a lot I still feel down. It's also hard if you're injured or tired.
I don't see why you're downvoted though: runner's high does give me something to look forward to / some way to relax so I wouldn't need to do something like drink excessively.
I don't see why you're downvoted though: runner's high does give me something to look forward to / some way to relax so I wouldn't need to do something like drink excessively.
Yes, though in my case I would say its more a slight mood lift or relaxation than a “high”, but the effects of exercise and alcohol are very similar and not cumulative, so if I’ve already done one its kind of redundant to do the other.
Exercise allows and even encourages you to eat/drink more because you have created a calorie deficient. At the same time, I think exercise naturally curtails drinking from entering the “problematic” zone because no one wants to workout drunk or hungover.
I think problem drinking comes often from a bad mental place, and I think regular excercise is one of the first things to go when your mental health starts to decline. Of course excercise can help raise your mood too, helping again.
There is plenty of nuance to all that which can't be quickly captured in a comment.
There is plenty of nuance to all that which can't be quickly captured in a comment.
This is a good point. Exercise is probably correlated with a general effort to take care of yourself for either health or appearance reasons. Many people enjoy sports and exercise for recreation, but health is probably at least a secondary reason for those individuals to exercise.
During times of more strenuous physical activity, I've found that my body is less tolerant of alcohol (in addition to burning it off faster). I begin to have physical difficulty choking too much of it down.
Unfortunately, this effect fades pretty quickly once I've had some down time-- so I tend to return to problematic levels of drinking at that point, which leads to slacking on exercise and lower energy/motivation.
For those who force themselves to be consistent with working out, I would expect most people would crave bioavailable nutrients more and alcohol less, while also getting more bang for their buck out of smaller amounts when they do partake. That's only from my unscientific observations, but it has seemed like a pretty strong effect to me.
Unfortunately, this effect fades pretty quickly once I've had some down time-- so I tend to return to problematic levels of drinking at that point, which leads to slacking on exercise and lower energy/motivation.
For those who force themselves to be consistent with working out, I would expect most people would crave bioavailable nutrients more and alcohol less, while also getting more bang for their buck out of smaller amounts when they do partake. That's only from my unscientific observations, but it has seemed like a pretty strong effect to me.
There’s a lot of recovery in sports too, certainly in the lifting and running circles I’m in.
I think the title could be better stated as, "Problem drinkers are less likely to be regular exercisers." It's hard to get up & exercise when you're hungover.
I believe that is a better explanation of the data indeed. Especially when you almost cannot call it a hangover anymore but a continued state of never being sober.
Well, that's the boring part of the findings. The interesting part is about regular excercisers drinking more
I think you misunderstand op's point.
It's like saying the interesting part of the study is "why people who die younger choose to smoke" about a study correlating early death with smoking.
The point being there is no such choice being made.
It's like saying the interesting part of the study is "why people who die younger choose to smoke" about a study correlating early death with smoking.
The point being there is no such choice being made.
Pretty much all sport clubs I have been at when younger drunk a lot. The socializing after sport often involves a lot of alcohol. Includes underage clubs.
Don’t they just both correlate with socio economic status?
Can’t read actual methods to check if this was adjusted for…
Can’t read actual methods to check if this was adjusted for…
> It’s hard to get up & exercise when you’re hungover
I’ve heard this from almost every runner I know, yet I have never ever found it harder to exercise because of a hangover - in fact, I’ve done many of my fastest 5km times after a heavy night. It curtails neither my desire or ability to get out and walk/hike/run — on the contrary, I often feel like going for a run will be a surefire way to cure a hangover (and atone for the behaviour that caused it).
I’ve heard this from almost every runner I know, yet I have never ever found it harder to exercise because of a hangover - in fact, I’ve done many of my fastest 5km times after a heavy night. It curtails neither my desire or ability to get out and walk/hike/run — on the contrary, I often feel like going for a run will be a surefire way to cure a hangover (and atone for the behaviour that caused it).
At what age? I also used to be in tip top shape in the morning and even crave exercise after a night of drinking. Great way to wake up and shake off the hangover heh.
Up until 26 or so.
Since then I just started feeling like shit and can't do anything if I drink more than 4-5 beers in the evening.
Up until 26 or so.
Since then I just started feeling like shit and can't do anything if I drink more than 4-5 beers in the evening.
I didn’t start running until my mid-30s. I’m in my mid-late 40s now.
Were you generally fit before hand? I’m in my early 30s and I’ve tried starting couch to 5k but inevitably give up after repeating week 2 like 7 times because my legs and feet are in pain. Tried changing how I run, shoes I wear, etc… Any tips?
Water, stretching the legs, and understanding that you are asking your body to transform. But more importantly, I always remember that when I went 1k to 12k at age 15, it took me six months, running twice a week, pushing like hell through a wall of courage, and I didn’t think it was even possible to run one hour in a row. You may be underestimating what an achievement it is, and be disappointed that it is actually hard. So, keep repeating your best score until you power through it.
Also, some people are more made for swimming, others for running.
Also, some people are more made for swimming, others for running.
There's a huge genetic variance in natural talent and response to training. Some people are just fast, and get faster with even minimal training. Others can follow an optimized training plan for years without significantly improving their speed. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle.
I hit 27 recently.
Went out with some ex-coworkers, had a great night, maybe 4-5 beers and a solid 6 hours sleep. Felt absolutely awful the next day.
Went out with some ex-coworkers, had a great night, maybe 4-5 beers and a solid 6 hours sleep. Felt absolutely awful the next day.
I would imagine your HR would be higher running at the same speed if you are hanging. I'll do 4:40min/km at 145 bpm on a normal day but if I'm hungover I'll do the same speed 10bpm higher so just tipping into tempo HR zone.
Yes alcohol consumption is known to increase heart rate.
https://www.triathlete.com/nutrition/a-nutritionist-shares-w...
https://www.triathlete.com/nutrition/a-nutritionist-shares-w...
In Washington, DC, the Hangover Classic 10K used to be held on the morning of January 1. One year a midshipman from Annapolis set the Hains Point course record, which seemed a bit contrary to the spirit of the thing.
I rarely get hungover these days, but in my 20s I found that about four miles of hard running would break a hangover. I would feel much better, but also still tired.
I rarely get hungover these days, but in my 20s I found that about four miles of hard running would break a hangover. I would feel much better, but also still tired.
I feel that, I usually have a bit of cannabis after a session, get some fluids and food in me, then after another hour of so of rest I’m ready to hit the road and 8 miles later I’m fresh as can be (after a shower!)
I’m honestly surprised how running can be so neatly slotted into the degenerate things I enjoy (except gorging on food: baaad idea)
I’m honestly surprised how running can be so neatly slotted into the degenerate things I enjoy (except gorging on food: baaad idea)
[deleted]
What’s your last few post heavy night 5K times?
I was hungover on my 40th birthday. Decided to go for a fast 5k and ran a 19:32. I don't normally run 100% for a 5k, so I'm not sure about the timing. I tend to do a fast 5k session once a month and aim for 85%. I wanted a sub 20 5k on my 40th, however, as a sort of goal that I thought I could clear without any extra training. I do wish I hadn't have drank the night before but I'm still happy with that result.
edit/ I had a bourbon and then 6 IPAs that night. Which is a pretty big / unusual session for me. I'm 6'0" and at the time I weighed around 170 lbs.
I also just recalled another "fast" run that I had on a hangover and wanted to share. I ran my half marathon PR hungover on maybe 3 hours of sleep. Stayed with a friend in Haight-Ashbury, who I hadn't seen in probably 5 years at the time, stayed up drinking til 3am, and then ran the first half of the SF marathon. I ran a 1:41 that day and I'm still not entirely sure how it happened. My normal half times are around 1:45-1:50.
edit/ I had a bourbon and then 6 IPAs that night. Which is a pretty big / unusual session for me. I'm 6'0" and at the time I weighed around 170 lbs.
I also just recalled another "fast" run that I had on a hangover and wanted to share. I ran my half marathon PR hungover on maybe 3 hours of sleep. Stayed with a friend in Haight-Ashbury, who I hadn't seen in probably 5 years at the time, stayed up drinking til 3am, and then ran the first half of the SF marathon. I ran a 1:41 that day and I'm still not entirely sure how it happened. My normal half times are around 1:45-1:50.
I’m not sure times are really the point, and certainly not the most recent handful. I’ve never been objectively fast - I’m a big bloke, and have asthma severe enough that I’m on 4 drugs for it daily and was told to shield by my GP/consultant. Plus, I’ve run hundreds of 5kms so cherry picking the last few post-booze outings would say nothing evidential about my original statement, which is that many of my best times ever have been after a big night.
I will offer that my PB was at 9am (Parkrun) after a night on which I drank at least 5 beers, likely more (it was a celebration).
I will offer that my PB was at 9am (Parkrun) after a night on which I drank at least 5 beers, likely more (it was a celebration).
Ok but 5 beers for a big guy isn't even close to what most people think of as a hangover. We're talking about trying to exercise after 15 beers and 4 hours of sleep.
By big I mean overweight. I’m 5’9”/175cm. Lightest I’ve been as an adult is 90kg.
When you have to get up in the morning, you're less likely to over do it.
Maybe when you’re hungover, not when you’re going through withdrawals.
Enough binges and your brain is kindled, then you’re in trouble. The one day recovery turns multi day, then week+. Then The Fear, brain zaps, and insomnia make you incapable of anything but drinking. Which only makes the withdrawals worse of course.
I wouldn’t say someone is a problem drinker until they have withdrawals.
Enough binges and your brain is kindled, then you’re in trouble. The one day recovery turns multi day, then week+. Then The Fear, brain zaps, and insomnia make you incapable of anything but drinking. Which only makes the withdrawals worse of course.
I wouldn’t say someone is a problem drinker until they have withdrawals.
bingo
After hearing stories from friends who served in the military I'm skeptical that it's really hard to get up and exercise when you're hungover. Just vomit in the bushes and keep running.
> It's hard to get up & exercise when you're hungover.
And yet it's the best way to shake a hangover.
And yet it's the best way to shake a hangover.
There was a recent study that said moderate drinking trains the body how to produce more of a heart-protecting enzyme or hormone. I wonder if there's a connection, like how your body craves a specific food when it needs a specific nutrient.
Once again, they just tested for basic correlation and try to give a causation. They suggest that exercise may cause drinking alcohol because why not ? So let met suggest that drinking cause people to exercise because why not ?
At the end of the day, sport and drinking alcohol are social activities so it is not weird that they are correlated
At the end of the day, sport and drinking alcohol are social activities so it is not weird that they are correlated
Has anyone else here experienced, as I have, a sudden and complete loss of interest in alcohol and sweet confectionary after commencing a high fat low carbohydrate diet? I say this as someone who always been a bit too fond of both carbohydrates and alcohol.
I went on a high fat diet to lose weight but these two other goals of mine were achieved with zero effort
I went on a high fat diet to lose weight but these two other goals of mine were achieved with zero effort
For me, alcohol interest goes down from exercise, not from diet changes.
100% on the carb/sugar cravings, though.
Do you drink alcohol straight? If you tend to drink beer, wine, or cocktails, maybe it's related to carbs in drinks?
100% on the carb/sugar cravings, though.
Do you drink alcohol straight? If you tend to drink beer, wine, or cocktails, maybe it's related to carbs in drinks?
I had this a few years ago, but it took me a week or so until my body settled down.
I should do this again, I'm back where I was; lots of sweets and beer thanks to the pandemic and boredom.
I should do this again, I'm back where I was; lots of sweets and beer thanks to the pandemic and boredom.
I've been giving up alcohol for years at a time. I've been overweight for years.
Every time I go back on the alcohol I seem to be a heavier drinker than I was the previous time I gave it up.
I've had a sweet tooth all my life. I can't eat a few sweets from a bag, I have to finish the whole bag.
I've also been getting increasingly overweight for years.
Recently I've taken to watching Dr. Sten Ekkberg's videos on youtube.
I took up the diet recommended basically because it told me I could eat almost everything I really like, butter, beef, cheese, olive oil, oily fish.
I had no specific plans to give up alcohol or sweets completely just to be as moderate as possible.
Bizarrely right from day one I completely lost interest in alcohol (and it's been around a month now) and apart a couple of biscuits a day with a cup of tea, I've not eaten anything sweet. No bread, hardly any potatoes.
I've lost 15 lbs so far and it's been an easier diet to persist with than I've ever tried before.
My short summary of how I understand it works:
A low carbohydrate diet stabilises blood sugar whereas a high carb diet causes swings in blood sugar levels and actually prevents the body from burning fat. Insulin causes the blood sugar to drop then cortisol is released which stimulates the appetite for sugar, causing snacking. When on a high fat, calorie deficient diet, you're still hungry sometimes but not like the cravings you have when your blood sugar is all over the place from eating a high carb diet, Your body isn't prevented by insulin from going to the 'pantry' (your fat tissue) to keep you going.
Also aerobic exercise, ie walking NOT running burns fat. The latter will cause your glycogen stores to be raided as well as stimulating cortisol to tell you that you need carbs, URGENTLY!
A low carbohydrate diet stabilises blood sugar whereas a high carb diet causes swings in blood sugar levels and actually prevents the body from burning fat. Insulin causes the blood sugar to drop then cortisol is released which stimulates the appetite for sugar, causing snacking. When on a high fat, calorie deficient diet, you're still hungry sometimes but not like the cravings you have when your blood sugar is all over the place from eating a high carb diet, Your body isn't prevented by insulin from going to the 'pantry' (your fat tissue) to keep you going.
Also aerobic exercise, ie walking NOT running burns fat. The latter will cause your glycogen stores to be raided as well as stimulating cortisol to tell you that you need carbs, URGENTLY!
I can't eat a few sweets from a bag, I have to finish the whole bag.
I used to live with a guy who was the same with chocolate biscuits. Once, I bought a packet of chocolate "Hob nobs" (very nice), eat one and went out. When I returned, the packet was full and unopened. "So what's the story" I asked, and it turned out that this guy had had one biscuit from the packet, then another, then scoffed the lot. So he went out and bought a new packet (sweetie) and took one biscuit out so I'd be none the wiser. Then the same happened and he scoffed the whole packet. Then he bought another packet and left it sealed for fear of doing the same: "I can't eat 3 packets of Hob-nobs in a day"
I used to live with a guy who was the same with chocolate biscuits. Once, I bought a packet of chocolate "Hob nobs" (very nice), eat one and went out. When I returned, the packet was full and unopened. "So what's the story" I asked, and it turned out that this guy had had one biscuit from the packet, then another, then scoffed the lot. So he went out and bought a new packet (sweetie) and took one biscuit out so I'd be none the wiser. Then the same happened and he scoffed the whole packet. Then he bought another packet and left it sealed for fear of doing the same: "I can't eat 3 packets of Hob-nobs in a day"
I can relate, but not really for biscuits, more chocolate and sweets and beer, unfortunately.
Beer and cookies could be my diet. I wanted to create an internet spoof diet system based on that, and realized it was wildly irresponsible.
Isn't this almost tautological? Like, you can't have a high fat low carb diet that includes much alcohol and sweet confectionary.
There are many forms of alcohol that don't include too much carbs.
On top of that, I believe the GP was talking about not craving those at all as opposed to consciously abstaining despite the desire.
Having been on a similar diet in the past, I second the notion.
On top of that, I believe the GP was talking about not craving those at all as opposed to consciously abstaining despite the desire.
Having been on a similar diet in the past, I second the notion.
Alcohol itself is a carb. There is no alcohol without "too much carbs".
The point, though, is if you've succeeded at cutting out carbs, then it's pretty likely you did so by no longer desiring them. So to have a set of people who succeeded at low carb diets claim that the low carb diet was the potential cause of no longer desiring carbs is a strong selection bias. It's like a fooled by randomness type scenario.
It's not like they said "I started playing golf and no longer desired carbs" which would really be novel.
The point, though, is if you've succeeded at cutting out carbs, then it's pretty likely you did so by no longer desiring them. So to have a set of people who succeeded at low carb diets claim that the low carb diet was the potential cause of no longer desiring carbs is a strong selection bias. It's like a fooled by randomness type scenario.
It's not like they said "I started playing golf and no longer desired carbs" which would really be novel.
You're clearly someone who never had issues with cravings and diet control. Good for you!
For many people though, cutting out carbs come at an expense. You need to police yourself constantly in order to not give in to cravings. You get twitchy, you get anxious, you get a lot more withdrawal symptoms and you need to soldier through them.
Once you're out of the habit and your body has adapted to getting most of its energy from other nutrients, the cravings reduce or disappear.
Playing golf will probably have no real connection to these results. Making an effort (sometimes a huge one) to cut them down to the point where they cease to be a phisiological and psychological necessity does.
On the point of alcohol being a carbohydrate, you may be right. I am no chemist. It does contain all the same core elements. From a behavioural, dieting and additction points of view though, they are quite different.
For many people though, cutting out carbs come at an expense. You need to police yourself constantly in order to not give in to cravings. You get twitchy, you get anxious, you get a lot more withdrawal symptoms and you need to soldier through them.
Once you're out of the habit and your body has adapted to getting most of its energy from other nutrients, the cravings reduce or disappear.
Playing golf will probably have no real connection to these results. Making an effort (sometimes a huge one) to cut them down to the point where they cease to be a phisiological and psychological necessity does.
On the point of alcohol being a carbohydrate, you may be right. I am no chemist. It does contain all the same core elements. From a behavioural, dieting and additction points of view though, they are quite different.
I've had a similar experience. I was on a low carb diet for over 6 months and then was in a situation where I would drink socially which hadn't been a while because of covid and was just like... When was the last time I drank? I couldn't figure it out. I wonder if it has more to do with how it feels to drink without glycogen stores, to me even a comparably small amount will hit me hard and I'll feel shitty the next day.
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I've been trying a low-fat diet and I feel similar. I think if you start a new diet and stick to it for a few days to a week, it gets much easier to focus on the foods in your diet. Then the other interests are kinda still there, but not nearly as strong, maybe even gross enough to turn down.
Yes, I experienced this on mostly-meat diet -- much less urge to drink, and when I did drink, it wasn't nearly as much fun. Which was simultaneously nice & kind of a bummer. :-)
Cravings are temporary. If you voluntarily chose to stop eating certain foods for a few weeks, you will stop craving them. Brain learns there are other foods that satiate hunger, and whenever it feels peckish it will make you think of them instead.
So the good news is that the struggle is temporary. Bad news is that cheat meals reset your progress, especially cheat meals when you're hungry. And research suggests this is not related to how much you eat. A slice of pizza or a whole pizza, it's enough to make the brain remember that pizza is good when you're hungry.
So the good news is that the struggle is temporary. Bad news is that cheat meals reset your progress, especially cheat meals when you're hungry. And research suggests this is not related to how much you eat. A slice of pizza or a whole pizza, it's enough to make the brain remember that pizza is good when you're hungry.
If people stop craving the food, why do they have a cheat meal and risk relapsing?
IME it's no longer an addictive kind of craving at that point, it's just a thought that went through my head. For example, "I haven't had pizza in a while, it might be nice to try a couple slices and put the rest away. I can go back to eating healthy tomorrow."
If a relapse happens, it's because I had a good experience and kept going down that train of thought but with other foods. "Hey, that reminds me, I haven't had chocolate in a while, wonder what that's like..."
If a relapse happens, it's because I had a good experience and kept going down that train of thought but with other foods. "Hey, that reminds me, I haven't had chocolate in a while, wonder what that's like..."
Main reason is that they don't know this, so they relapse by accident.
This fits very well of people gaining weight around the holidays, when you're exposed to lots of delicious food that's outside the daily diet. And once they do this, next time they're hungry you can bet that vegetable rice will not be the first thing that pops into their heads. Doesn't help that we tend to starve ourselves before big meals out of guilt, which only makes the habituation stronger.
Another reason is the "voluntary" part. It helps a lot if giving up food is a choice, as opposed to something imposed by a diet. If you see cake, make a cost-benefit calculation and decide that it's nice but doesn't fit into your lifestyle, you're likely better of than if you decide one day that cake is forbidden because it's bad.
This fits very well of people gaining weight around the holidays, when you're exposed to lots of delicious food that's outside the daily diet. And once they do this, next time they're hungry you can bet that vegetable rice will not be the first thing that pops into their heads. Doesn't help that we tend to starve ourselves before big meals out of guilt, which only makes the habituation stronger.
Another reason is the "voluntary" part. It helps a lot if giving up food is a choice, as opposed to something imposed by a diet. If you see cake, make a cost-benefit calculation and decide that it's nice but doesn't fit into your lifestyle, you're likely better of than if you decide one day that cake is forbidden because it's bad.
As a borderline alcoholic on my best days, I can honestly say walking briskly 30 minutes a day has probally saved my liver.
I defiantly drink less on days I exercise.
Oh yea, if prone to alcohol, and can't stop, don't ever switch over to hard alcohol. It's just to easy to abuse.
Stay with low alcohol beer, and low alcohol wine. Franzia has a 9% white, and tastes so bad you won't want to drink to much. If you feel like you are drinking to self medicate, only drink when the anxiety is bad. Stop all unnessary drinking, including social. My dad died of a huge liver tumor, and his death was beyond painful.
I come from four generations of alcoholics. I also had some nervous disorder while in grad school. The anxiety was so bad only alcohol could level me out.
I've seen a professional forever, and taken so many drugs, but in the long run exercise has been better than and drug I have been prescribed. I'm still on a couple of prescription drugs I need to get off of though.
I defiantly drink less on days I exercise.
Oh yea, if prone to alcohol, and can't stop, don't ever switch over to hard alcohol. It's just to easy to abuse.
Stay with low alcohol beer, and low alcohol wine. Franzia has a 9% white, and tastes so bad you won't want to drink to much. If you feel like you are drinking to self medicate, only drink when the anxiety is bad. Stop all unnessary drinking, including social. My dad died of a huge liver tumor, and his death was beyond painful.
I come from four generations of alcoholics. I also had some nervous disorder while in grad school. The anxiety was so bad only alcohol could level me out.
I've seen a professional forever, and taken so many drugs, but in the long run exercise has been better than and drug I have been prescribed. I'm still on a couple of prescription drugs I need to get off of though.
kudos on the efforts, have you tried addressing other parts of your life too ? just asking because it seems the medical world is at loss and maybe sport + cool life has more effect on one's addiction.
good luck
good luck
I feel like this could be interpreted as, "It's ok to have a problem with drinking as long as you're also getting exercise." I don't see what is to be gained by assuaging people's conscience in this way.
I had a lot of personal issues going on at the same time I had committed to running the marathon.
Spending hours on the road alone in your own head knowing you've inflicted extra suffering on yourself through the personal choices of drinking gives you lots of time to reflect on your priorities.
For me at least, preparing for some kind of sporting competition makes it really easy for me to fix any drinking or eating habits as it becomes so obvious how much of a hindrance those activies are on my progress.
Spending hours on the road alone in your own head knowing you've inflicted extra suffering on yourself through the personal choices of drinking gives you lots of time to reflect on your priorities.
For me at least, preparing for some kind of sporting competition makes it really easy for me to fix any drinking or eating habits as it becomes so obvious how much of a hindrance those activies are on my progress.
Did they control for any potentially relevant confounder like age, education etc.? No?
That said it would be interesting to do a follow up study and check how these social party tigers who liked to drink and to do sports ended up when they are 70. My guess is they do less sports but drink more. Maybe they even go to the sport club to meet their friends and to drink.
That said it would be interesting to do a follow up study and check how these social party tigers who liked to drink and to do sports ended up when they are 70. My guess is they do less sports but drink more. Maybe they even go to the sport club to meet their friends and to drink.
I would be careful here.
Most studies about alcohol consumption suffer from the fact that the quantity of alcohol consumed is determined by asking the individual how much alcohol they consume.
It wouldn’t be surprising if people who exercise more and are healthier and probably feel better about themselves (the causation could work both ways here...exercise makes you feel better and feeling better makes you exercise), are more willing to declare higher levels of alcohol consumption.
In addition, as the article abo it the study points out, it’s surprising because more exercise is correlated with more consideration about one’s health. This would also mean that people who exercise more are more careful about their health and are more aware of how much they are drinking, as opposed to people who are less considerate and don’t keep track of their drinking habits as much, which would also lead to differences in self reporting alcohol units.
Most studies about alcohol consumption suffer from the fact that the quantity of alcohol consumed is determined by asking the individual how much alcohol they consume.
It wouldn’t be surprising if people who exercise more and are healthier and probably feel better about themselves (the causation could work both ways here...exercise makes you feel better and feeling better makes you exercise), are more willing to declare higher levels of alcohol consumption.
In addition, as the article abo it the study points out, it’s surprising because more exercise is correlated with more consideration about one’s health. This would also mean that people who exercise more are more careful about their health and are more aware of how much they are drinking, as opposed to people who are less considerate and don’t keep track of their drinking habits as much, which would also lead to differences in self reporting alcohol units.
> it’s surprising because more exercise is correlated with more consideration about one’s health. This would also mean that people who exercise more are more careful about their health and are more aware of how much they are drinking
Pretty much all sports clubs I had been in had a culture of drinking when I was young. I am speaking about getting drunk fairly regularly. Now that I am not members of organized groups, I still see people going for beer and socializing after training.
Sport leads to socialization which leads to drinking. Sport attracts competitive personalities and they get competitive in drinking as extension. Some sports attracts guys who have sort of masculinity that treats drinking as a right kind of guy thing - the women in same sports tend to treat drinking as cool thing too.
I could continue, but health is only one of many reasons to exercise.
Pretty much all sports clubs I had been in had a culture of drinking when I was young. I am speaking about getting drunk fairly regularly. Now that I am not members of organized groups, I still see people going for beer and socializing after training.
Sport leads to socialization which leads to drinking. Sport attracts competitive personalities and they get competitive in drinking as extension. Some sports attracts guys who have sort of masculinity that treats drinking as a right kind of guy thing - the women in same sports tend to treat drinking as cool thing too.
I could continue, but health is only one of many reasons to exercise.
Another possible link is mood (as in mood disorders).
Alcohol can improve your mood (temporarily). Exercise can improve your mood too.
Perhaps there are people whose mood is not so great, who seek ways to improve it, and who wind up discovering both exercise and alcohol work for that. Whereas people whose mood is already fine are less motivated to go searching for that sort of thing.
(The article got close to mentioning this: "linked both exercise and drinking behavior to higher levels of sensation-seeking". But it doesn't seem like quite the same thing to me. A sensation is a short-lived experience, and mood is more of a mental state that persists for a while.)
Alcohol can improve your mood (temporarily). Exercise can improve your mood too.
Perhaps there are people whose mood is not so great, who seek ways to improve it, and who wind up discovering both exercise and alcohol work for that. Whereas people whose mood is already fine are less motivated to go searching for that sort of thing.
(The article got close to mentioning this: "linked both exercise and drinking behavior to higher levels of sensation-seeking". But it doesn't seem like quite the same thing to me. A sensation is a short-lived experience, and mood is more of a mental state that persists for a while.)
I find that drinking after a long run or hike results in much less of a hangover the next day for the same amount of alcohol. No idea why that is.
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Problem drinkers go through withdrawals. Problem drinkers have lost their job, spouse, kids, or gone to jail. Problem drinkers don’t exercise, they taper and try and get sober or avoid the withdrawal by getting drunk again.
Anything else is normal, binges are unhealthy but it’s not a problem until you’ve binged enough to kindle your brain. Which at that point you’re getting withdrawals and you’ve got a problem.
Anything else is normal, binges are unhealthy but it’s not a problem until you’ve binged enough to kindle your brain. Which at that point you’re getting withdrawals and you’ve got a problem.
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Another aspect is that if you are a regular exerciser you tend to also take your weight seriously. In part because lower weight means easier runs.
But heavy drinking tends to also increase your weight and it can take several days to get rid of that excess weight.
So it's a bit of a paradox really.
Perhaps it's the "high" feeling that a good exercise leaves you with, that also makes you seek out alcohol for that same feeling.
But heavy drinking tends to also increase your weight and it can take several days to get rid of that excess weight.
So it's a bit of a paradox really.
Perhaps it's the "high" feeling that a good exercise leaves you with, that also makes you seek out alcohol for that same feeling.