How to Live in Airbnbs for the Price of an Apartment Lease(esimoney.com)
esimoney.com
How to Live in Airbnbs for the Price of an Apartment Lease
https://esimoney.com/how-to-live-in-airbnbs-for-the-price-of-an-apartment-lease/
118 comments
I did this for a few months when my house construction was delayed. Living out of a suitcase, even in relatively nice Airbnbs, was soul-sucking. No choice of mattress, a limited wardrobe, same-y IKEA decor everywhere. Not having a true "home base" was no fun. Wouldn't recommend it unless you really have the personality for it.
It really depends on your intent. If your intent is to just have a temporary place to live until your permanent place is ready, yeah, it's never going to feel like home and you're going to hate it. If your intent is to use your new freedom and live and explore new neighborhoods or cities, then it can be exciting.
I won't say there's something "wrong" about someone who feels comfortable to be permanently in so rootless an existence
I will suggest that they're way out on the tail of the distribution, and their experience of the lifestyle is unlikely to be a good guide for a randomly selected other human.
I will suggest that they're way out on the tail of the distribution, and their experience of the lifestyle is unlikely to be a good guide for a randomly selected other human.
I’m confused by this comment. Humans were nomadic for thousands of years, you could even say we’re predisposed to it.
Why shouldn’t one feel comfortable in a permanently “rootless” existence?
Why shouldn’t one feel comfortable in a permanently “rootless” existence?
I have to imagine that "nomadic in tribes" is different than "I live alone in a string of airbnbs."
Humans likely weren't nomadic by choice, and most societies settled down the second they had the ability to do so. Even among nomadic groups, most ventured to and from the same places and would stay settled for large portions of the year.
A colleague of mine has spent the last year "interviewing" neighborhoods he's considering living in, moving each month to another potential permanent home. Definitely not for everyone but how do you know where the perfect place is until you've spent a bit of time everywhere?
I think there is some value to this for sure ... I would do it for 6-12 months to find a permanent place (and I have), but doing it for 2-5 years feels like it would get old fast!
I did this for a year but with countries, before ultimately deciding that for me and my given circumstances, my starting country was my choice to put down roots. But then after flying back to my home country, did a mini version of the same strategy of my home country but didn't wanna leave the second place after I was there and ended the tour early (which might have been largely motivated by the fact that I'd spent a year moving between airbnbs and was sick of relocating).
The one thing that's difficult is that when you are already living out of a checked luggage + carry-on, its easy to do this. But once you've put down some roots once and accumulated any significant furniture or larger possessions, it's so hard to do it again. Unless you are truly motivated or you have nearby family with storage space to keep your most prized larger possessions. That and Airbnb prices in the markets I've looked at have gone way up in the past 5 years relative to longterm apartment rental prices in the same markets.
5 years ago you could move to NYC and find a room for rent for the same price a similar room would cost if you subleased from someone, with maybe a few hundred dollar premium extra for the convenience of Airbnb. Today it seems like the 'Airbnb' price for a month is $500-1000 more than the same room would have cost if you'd found it the old fashioned way.
One funny thing was that in 2016 when I did this (and I will admit I was fairly price-unconscious and more excited about adventure than about finance) it seemed like there was remarkable consistency of prices regardless of country. I kept paying right around $1000 USD a month to live in fairly nice to extremely nice rentals (they were all studio apartments) whether that was in gayfield square in Edinburgh or near Mariatorget in Sodermalm Stockholm (I think I got truly lucky on that one) or staying in city centers of second tier cities in Poland or at a beach hotel on the Black Sea or even staying in Mapo in Seoul or Chapinero in Bogota. I kept paying around $1000 a month at the time it felt like no matter the 'on paper' cost of living of the country. I think I was definitely paying a tourist tax in many of the lower cost of living place (whether I was paying 50% more or double what I would have if I'd booked locally or triple or what I don't know), but at the same time it's surprising I was able to stay in such nice places in higher COL places like Stockholm and Edinburgh without a higher tourist premium. I would guess though that the same accommodations on Airbnb would cost double today.
Airbnb seems both more hated and less useful today for longer-term stays than it used to. Still better for tourism than a hotel in most places though. Still waiting for something similar to Airbnb that was designed (from both product perspective but also legal/regulatory/compliance perspective) for long term month minimum to year long stays so that the antiquated apartment rental system was more instant and not so shady.
I wouldn't advise anyone to follow the '1-3 months in each city/country for a year' strategy after living it out myself unless you are doing it with a friend or loved one. I do think it broadened my perspective but went from the most exciting adventure at the beginning to a bit soul-crushing by the end in terms of how impermanent all of my friendships and relationships felt. First country I went to I invested in language learning to interact with shopkeepers, I made a decent network of couchsurfing/international meetup/language exchange friends, and had some youthful encounters with love and lust, but 10 months and several countries later it was like 'why should I try going out tonight to befriend that dude, I'll never see him again next month anyway' or 'I shouldn't text that girl, I'll probably just end up breaking her heart since I know I'm leaving in a few weeks' (which while not something inevitable with all of my prior experiences hooking up or dating while traveling, is a painful enough experience that at that time I couldn't easily brush off when it did in fact happen). By the end I was going to far fewer social events / mixers and far more sort of cerebral, maybe sentimental people watching walks through cities alone.
If I knew what I knew now and wanted to do a 'life geography reconnaissance mission', I would do much faster and shorter hops to far more places initially (even if it cost a lot more for transportation and cause of not getting long-stay discounts), and then after visiting 4-10 places quickly (maybe 5-7 days in each country/city to just get the initial/basic feel/vibe?) I would pick my top 1-3 and visit for longer. 6-12 months at my favorite one or two places from that year or travel would have been much more fulfilling (although maybe the goodbye would be even more painful?), but then again if I hadn't visited so many places I wouldn't have known which resonated most with me.
The one thing that's difficult is that when you are already living out of a checked luggage + carry-on, its easy to do this. But once you've put down some roots once and accumulated any significant furniture or larger possessions, it's so hard to do it again. Unless you are truly motivated or you have nearby family with storage space to keep your most prized larger possessions. That and Airbnb prices in the markets I've looked at have gone way up in the past 5 years relative to longterm apartment rental prices in the same markets.
5 years ago you could move to NYC and find a room for rent for the same price a similar room would cost if you subleased from someone, with maybe a few hundred dollar premium extra for the convenience of Airbnb. Today it seems like the 'Airbnb' price for a month is $500-1000 more than the same room would have cost if you'd found it the old fashioned way.
One funny thing was that in 2016 when I did this (and I will admit I was fairly price-unconscious and more excited about adventure than about finance) it seemed like there was remarkable consistency of prices regardless of country. I kept paying right around $1000 USD a month to live in fairly nice to extremely nice rentals (they were all studio apartments) whether that was in gayfield square in Edinburgh or near Mariatorget in Sodermalm Stockholm (I think I got truly lucky on that one) or staying in city centers of second tier cities in Poland or at a beach hotel on the Black Sea or even staying in Mapo in Seoul or Chapinero in Bogota. I kept paying around $1000 a month at the time it felt like no matter the 'on paper' cost of living of the country. I think I was definitely paying a tourist tax in many of the lower cost of living place (whether I was paying 50% more or double what I would have if I'd booked locally or triple or what I don't know), but at the same time it's surprising I was able to stay in such nice places in higher COL places like Stockholm and Edinburgh without a higher tourist premium. I would guess though that the same accommodations on Airbnb would cost double today.
Airbnb seems both more hated and less useful today for longer-term stays than it used to. Still better for tourism than a hotel in most places though. Still waiting for something similar to Airbnb that was designed (from both product perspective but also legal/regulatory/compliance perspective) for long term month minimum to year long stays so that the antiquated apartment rental system was more instant and not so shady.
I wouldn't advise anyone to follow the '1-3 months in each city/country for a year' strategy after living it out myself unless you are doing it with a friend or loved one. I do think it broadened my perspective but went from the most exciting adventure at the beginning to a bit soul-crushing by the end in terms of how impermanent all of my friendships and relationships felt. First country I went to I invested in language learning to interact with shopkeepers, I made a decent network of couchsurfing/international meetup/language exchange friends, and had some youthful encounters with love and lust, but 10 months and several countries later it was like 'why should I try going out tonight to befriend that dude, I'll never see him again next month anyway' or 'I shouldn't text that girl, I'll probably just end up breaking her heart since I know I'm leaving in a few weeks' (which while not something inevitable with all of my prior experiences hooking up or dating while traveling, is a painful enough experience that at that time I couldn't easily brush off when it did in fact happen). By the end I was going to far fewer social events / mixers and far more sort of cerebral, maybe sentimental people watching walks through cities alone.
If I knew what I knew now and wanted to do a 'life geography reconnaissance mission', I would do much faster and shorter hops to far more places initially (even if it cost a lot more for transportation and cause of not getting long-stay discounts), and then after visiting 4-10 places quickly (maybe 5-7 days in each country/city to just get the initial/basic feel/vibe?) I would pick my top 1-3 and visit for longer. 6-12 months at my favorite one or two places from that year or travel would have been much more fulfilling (although maybe the goodbye would be even more painful?), but then again if I hadn't visited so many places I wouldn't have known which resonated most with me.
Couldn't agree more. I've been moving every three months or so and it actually sucks. On my gap year it was great but with a job (even though it's remote) and a girlfriend, jetlag and the desire for stability, it definitely takes a heavy toll.
"In addition, I save roughly $8k a year on housing expenses – taxes, utilities, insurance, maintenance, etc."
I'm no accountant, but the lack of an expense isn't the same as cash flow. If the investment is paying 31.5k/year, that's all you have. I don't magically earn $1mm a year because I don't own a timeshare in a Gulfstream jet.
Also, is this your plan once you hit advanced age? You want to be 75 years old, possibly with limited mobility, and be told your rental is expiring and you need to move?
I suppose you could buy your old house back but real estate appreciation means it's now going to cost you $600,000.
I'm no accountant, but the lack of an expense isn't the same as cash flow. If the investment is paying 31.5k/year, that's all you have. I don't magically earn $1mm a year because I don't own a timeshare in a Gulfstream jet.
Also, is this your plan once you hit advanced age? You want to be 75 years old, possibly with limited mobility, and be told your rental is expiring and you need to move?
I suppose you could buy your old house back but real estate appreciation means it's now going to cost you $600,000.
> I don't magically earn $1mm a year because I don't own a timeshare in a Gulfstream jet.
But you do save the time it takes to become a CEO/celebrity/what have you, via whatever path.
But you do save the time it takes to become a CEO/celebrity/what have you, via whatever path.
I do this right now and have been living in airbnbs with my wife and child for over a year paying comparable rent we did in Denver. We actually got featured on the Today show for it a few months ago. AMA?
Biggest thing is the multi month stay discounts. Sometimes we get 60-70% off. We're in Florence Italy right now in a great location and paid roughly $2000 for 45 days (so significantly lower than our Denver rent). Once you get packing down really the biggest pain I've found is car rentals which seem stubbornly expensive and stuck in the stone age so we prioritize places with great public transit.
Biggest thing is the multi month stay discounts. Sometimes we get 60-70% off. We're in Florence Italy right now in a great location and paid roughly $2000 for 45 days (so significantly lower than our Denver rent). Once you get packing down really the biggest pain I've found is car rentals which seem stubbornly expensive and stuck in the stone age so we prioritize places with great public transit.
How stressful is this for the family unit as a whole? I would imagine that traveling with a child is not easy, and as they enter school, there's much more pressure to just settle down in one place.
My wife doesn't work so it helps. I would say more stressful around travel days including the day before and after but those are only every 1 to 2 months. Otherwise its fairly normal stress levels.
I read the piece, and the moment the author mentioned booking in advance I wondered what happens if you've booked in January to lock in lower rates for July, and then they cancel at the last minute?
Suddenly you'd have to pay the higher/normal cost and change your plans at short notice. It feels like that's a risky thing to live with - I've not used airbnb so often, but even booking only a few weeks ahead I've had hosts cancel with essentially zero notice so I have to assume that's a pretty common occurrence.
Suddenly you'd have to pay the higher/normal cost and change your plans at short notice. It feels like that's a risky thing to live with - I've not used airbnb so often, but even booking only a few weeks ahead I've had hosts cancel with essentially zero notice so I have to assume that's a pretty common occurrence.
> I've not used airbnb so often, but even booking only a few weeks ahead I've had hosts cancel with essentially zero notice
I have little experience with airbnb as well, but don't they help you find another one in this case? Maybe with discounts even?
I have little experience with airbnb as well, but don't they help you find another one in this case? Maybe with discounts even?
No, they won't. The AirBNB hosts are independent and have no network, many times they will have just the one unit. If they cancel, they are unable to fill someone into the unit during their time and suffer some minor penalties which grow if they continue to cancel on guests.
Airbnb doesn’t do anything. Same if your place isn’t as advertised or has an issue, Airbnb will happily check you out that night and refund you; good luck finding an alternative accommodation at the very last minute. You’d be lucky if you only end up paying double or triple the rate you thought you’d be paying by booking the Airbnb in the first place.
Yeah so we book months out and it hasn't been an issue so far. I suppose that is a potential issue but we pay in advance and just haven't run into it yet.
I’ve literally been hunting airbnb properties over the past week in Florence and northern Italy for a 1-2 month stay for my parents and kids. This is great to hear, and good tip on public transit. Is Turo much of a thing there?
I would strongly advise not having a car. The ZTL traffic zones are such a pain and the public transit is good enough that you can do without it. Not sure on turo but there's lots of rent on demand vespa esque bikes available if thats an option for you.
This is super helpful. I was dreading that part of the process. Knowing that its not essential and likely a negative is awesome, thanks!
> I’ve literally been hunting airbnb properties
If anything, you’ve figuratively been hunting properties; the opposite of literally.
If anything, you’ve figuratively been hunting properties; the opposite of literally.
I think that ship has sailed--many/most dictionaries show this second usage. Words do that, I've made peace with it as it's quite clear in informal speech/writing.
How do you handle looking for accommodations?
That was the biggest hurdle for me when I was doing the digital nomad thing. When you're settling in for the long term, you can take the time to do multiple visits in order to make an informed decision. When you're settling short term, you don't care that much if the accommodation you booked online isn't good. But when you're doing the temporary-but-mid-term thing, it's complicated because short term rentals are often icky about visits, while making a bad decision has more serious consequences for you: getting stuck for months in a bad accommodation isn't fun, especially if you plan to work out of it.
That was the biggest hurdle for me when I was doing the digital nomad thing. When you're settling in for the long term, you can take the time to do multiple visits in order to make an informed decision. When you're settling short term, you don't care that much if the accommodation you booked online isn't good. But when you're doing the temporary-but-mid-term thing, it's complicated because short term rentals are often icky about visits, while making a bad decision has more serious consequences for you: getting stuck for months in a bad accommodation isn't fun, especially if you plan to work out of it.
Yeah so I mean there is always that risk. I think the big thing is we look for price range first and then we carefully read reviews. Once reviews are good and we study the pictures to make sure its at least nominally friendly for a toddler we start research about the neighborhoods etc. Also since I run a company anywhere we go has to have a coworking space nearby (luckily they're super common at this point so it hasn't been a problem).
I should mention we're also super flexible on "where" we go. Mostly it's not the Paris and Rome sorts of place because they're expensive. We tend to stay in more regional hubs (Hence Florence) that are a bit cheaper and stay around there rather than take lots of day trips.
I should mention we're also super flexible on "where" we go. Mostly it's not the Paris and Rome sorts of place because they're expensive. We tend to stay in more regional hubs (Hence Florence) that are a bit cheaper and stay around there rather than take lots of day trips.
Do you qualify Florence as a place with great public transit? I lived there for a few months ages ago (2006) and my only memorable experience with transit there was literally getting hit by a bus (and then arguing with the driver about whether it was my fault or not) :)
I loved it there. I hope you do too!
I loved it there. I hope you do too!
Florence is lovely and I'm deeply saddened that I have to leave. Probably more so than anywhere else I've ever been in the world.
The traffic is crazy though and the busses in particular flying past you at full speed down the medieval streets with less than a foot of clearance is terrifying. It would surprise me 0% to hear what you experience is a regular occurrence (hope you were okay!)
The traffic is crazy though and the busses in particular flying past you at full speed down the medieval streets with less than a foot of clearance is terrifying. It would surprise me 0% to hear what you experience is a regular occurrence (hope you were okay!)
>3,600 square foot house.
>As of now, our two kids, my son-in-law, and my daughter’s four cats are in the house and it feels barely big enough.
That's a huge space for just 5 people. I'm baffled that someone would find a 335 square meters house "barely enough".
I went through password reset just for this.
>As of now, our two kids, my son-in-law, and my daughter’s four cats are in the house and it feels barely big enough.
That's a huge space for just 5 people. I'm baffled that someone would find a 335 square meters house "barely enough".
I went through password reset just for this.
I'm sympathetic; it would take a very large house to feel "big enough" if someone released four cats into it.
My wife would disagree but my formula is max_number_of_cats=max(number_of_adults*2, ceil(area/500ft²))
depends on the design too. i've been in much smaller houses with more people and sometimes you can barely notice them around when you're in your own little space.
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Americans are used to much bigger homes than (I presume you are) Europeans. Also in bigger homes there's a lot more "wasted" space so a 335 sq mt home is not three times as large as a 100 sq mt home, e.g. in my house there are two landings that take a huge space (comparably to EU homes) and don't really offer any living space.
First, I will add another vote to "don't assume a 7% return" camp. Others already mentioned inflation, 7% average over 20 yrs vs needing 7% every year, etc.
But just as much as economics, consider a requirement to move every year or every few months. People, especially as they get older, tend to like knowing they have a home where they can spend as long as they want, where they know their neighbors, etc. It might not feel like a big thing until one loses it.
Personally, I would consider downsizing and if needed do occasional work for travel money. My 2c.
But just as much as economics, consider a requirement to move every year or every few months. People, especially as they get older, tend to like knowing they have a home where they can spend as long as they want, where they know their neighbors, etc. It might not feel like a big thing until one loses it.
Personally, I would consider downsizing and if needed do occasional work for travel money. My 2c.
As someone who is over one year into doing exactly this…no, you can’t. Airbnb’s are insanely expensive right now and their fees are higher than ever. Availability is poor and you are lucky to even find a decent place in an area you want to stay. Add in parking and internet requirements and it gets even more difficult.
This is just bad advice. 7% might be achievable, but it also might not be. Are you truly willing to risk everything on the hope you can live in someone else's home a couple of months of the year? Why not just do the same yourself?
The financial analysis is a little peculiar, even dangerous.
The author spends effort calculating the return on the investments they could make if they sold the home, but doesn't consider that the home itself is also an asset.
It also neglects the impact of tax policy. The investment returns made would be taxable from the first dollar, but the first $250K ($500K if married filing jointly) of capital gains on a home are not taxable.
It might be that the author is really doubtful about the prospects for the real estate market but it seems like that's an important assumption to document for this analysis.
The author also makes a significant error in conflating the average long-run returns on an investment with a safe draw-down rate. If, over a 20 year horizon (for example), you plan on withdrawing 7% of the initial investment annually against a 100% stock portfolio, you have a 50% chance that your investment is going to be completely gone before that point.
This is because of the volatility of stock returns and, in particular, the risk of substantial losses early in the investment period.
N.B. none of the above is financial advice, YMMV, consult a registered investment advisor etc. etc.
The author spends effort calculating the return on the investments they could make if they sold the home, but doesn't consider that the home itself is also an asset.
It also neglects the impact of tax policy. The investment returns made would be taxable from the first dollar, but the first $250K ($500K if married filing jointly) of capital gains on a home are not taxable.
It might be that the author is really doubtful about the prospects for the real estate market but it seems like that's an important assumption to document for this analysis.
The author also makes a significant error in conflating the average long-run returns on an investment with a safe draw-down rate. If, over a 20 year horizon (for example), you plan on withdrawing 7% of the initial investment annually against a 100% stock portfolio, you have a 50% chance that your investment is going to be completely gone before that point.
This is because of the volatility of stock returns and, in particular, the risk of substantial losses early in the investment period.
N.B. none of the above is financial advice, YMMV, consult a registered investment advisor etc. etc.
Well, I doubt most people on HN care about Mexico, but just in case I will tell you what I have seen as far as AirBnb prices.
The first place I lived in Mexico was an AirBnb I rented for about $700 for two weeks. It had rave reviews. What I didn't realize from the pictures was that it was literally a shack in someone's driveway. A very nicely outfitted shack with a bathroom and a very secure fence and gate. But a small room.
I ended up moving to a place right on the beach for about $775 per month. This was the most touristy area though. Later found an apartment for only $550.
The place where I currently am is further south in Baja. Small apartment but exclusive gated community. Now it used to be an AirBnb that was renting for $70-90 per night. But AirBnb can be a pain to manage so the owner listed it with a real estate company. $500 because people are just not going to pay a lot more for a small apartment -- unless they are from the US and it's on AirBnb.
So I would say, consider getting an AirBnb at first, but use it to look at the local real estate listings. Or be a good guest and get to know the host and maybe they will want to make a lease in person.
The first place I lived in Mexico was an AirBnb I rented for about $700 for two weeks. It had rave reviews. What I didn't realize from the pictures was that it was literally a shack in someone's driveway. A very nicely outfitted shack with a bathroom and a very secure fence and gate. But a small room.
I ended up moving to a place right on the beach for about $775 per month. This was the most touristy area though. Later found an apartment for only $550.
The place where I currently am is further south in Baja. Small apartment but exclusive gated community. Now it used to be an AirBnb that was renting for $70-90 per night. But AirBnb can be a pain to manage so the owner listed it with a real estate company. $500 because people are just not going to pay a lot more for a small apartment -- unless they are from the US and it's on AirBnb.
So I would say, consider getting an AirBnb at first, but use it to look at the local real estate listings. Or be a good guest and get to know the host and maybe they will want to make a lease in person.
I've been living with my backpack for a few years now, with 3-4 month breaks in between trips. You can certainly have a bunch of new experiences and achieve a comfortable and quality life more expat-friendly places. Croatia, Serbia, Georgia, etc are slow enough to feel home, but are also affordable. South Eastern Asian countries also make a very nice experience.
I suppose the issue never is the money. Of course it is cheaper to live in cheaper cities that provide good value and comforts you are looking for. However, the real cost is the lack of feeling _real_ home. I can cope with the feeling that I will eventually leave this city, and all the friendships and relationships you build will come to an end. I don't think that kind of life isn't suitable for if you can't make you mind to turn a new chapter every few months.
That, and finding a good Airbnb can be very difficult, specially when you are not familiar with a city. In Ho Chi Minh City, for example, it took me nearly three months to find an apartment that would eventually suit my life, and the time in between isn't really that fun, nor inexpensive.
I suppose the issue never is the money. Of course it is cheaper to live in cheaper cities that provide good value and comforts you are looking for. However, the real cost is the lack of feeling _real_ home. I can cope with the feeling that I will eventually leave this city, and all the friendships and relationships you build will come to an end. I don't think that kind of life isn't suitable for if you can't make you mind to turn a new chapter every few months.
That, and finding a good Airbnb can be very difficult, specially when you are not familiar with a city. In Ho Chi Minh City, for example, it took me nearly three months to find an apartment that would eventually suit my life, and the time in between isn't really that fun, nor inexpensive.
Doing exactly this, but with VRBO, which has better pricing than Airbnb, especially for 3-6 months - France - $900/month fully furnished, utilities, internet, etc. included, while equivalent unfurnished apt rental for same surface and area of the city is approx $1.2k, for 1-3 yrs rental. Even better - after the first iteration of such, some owners are willing to take the apt off VRBO, then rent direct, for longer, as they got to know whom they're dealing with.
I would venture that many owners are willing to rent direct and save the airBnB fees if they can meet you in person.
I've been living in Spain for the last couple of years with normal 1 year leases. This year however I didn't know if I would be able to commit to another year so I started looking for multi-month AirBnB rentals. My current 1 year lease is 920€/month (with utilities about 1000€) for a furnished 2 bedroom apartment with a great view of the beach. All of the AirBnB's I was looking at even with the ~50% monthly discount were showing around 1700€/month. I picked 3 I liked and messaged them through AirBnB that I was living in the area and I would like to check out the apartment in person but I can only afford 900€/month. All 3 replied to me with counter offers between 1100€ and 1300€. I picked the one I liked best, met it person, and we agreed on 1000€/month for a 3.5 month lease including all utilities. We signed a lease contract on the side and both avoided the fees.
AirBnB is great for booking a place when you are not in the city but I think you can get much better deals if you know the local market and are able to meet the landlords face to face.
TLDR: If I was going to look for a place for 3-4 months I would book the first month through AirBnB then apartment hunt in person in the target city for the remaining months at a steep discount.
I've been living in Spain for the last couple of years with normal 1 year leases. This year however I didn't know if I would be able to commit to another year so I started looking for multi-month AirBnB rentals. My current 1 year lease is 920€/month (with utilities about 1000€) for a furnished 2 bedroom apartment with a great view of the beach. All of the AirBnB's I was looking at even with the ~50% monthly discount were showing around 1700€/month. I picked 3 I liked and messaged them through AirBnB that I was living in the area and I would like to check out the apartment in person but I can only afford 900€/month. All 3 replied to me with counter offers between 1100€ and 1300€. I picked the one I liked best, met it person, and we agreed on 1000€/month for a 3.5 month lease including all utilities. We signed a lease contract on the side and both avoided the fees.
AirBnB is great for booking a place when you are not in the city but I think you can get much better deals if you know the local market and are able to meet the landlords face to face.
TLDR: If I was going to look for a place for 3-4 months I would book the first month through AirBnB then apartment hunt in person in the target city for the remaining months at a steep discount.
I've been doing this for a year or so now. I gave up my apartment, and have been driving around Europe, staying in various Airbnbs. The cost is much lower than I would've paid if I stayed in Amsterdam. This is because I can stay in cheaper countries, but also because I am not paying rent when I go on a holiday, go to my family for Christmas, and so on. I am not lacking any stuff, because I can leave some clothes in the back of my car while I keep the rest in a large suitcase / backpack combination.
The biggest downsides so far are: 1. Periods of loneliness. I don't mind this too much as I can just use the time to work on interesting personal projects. And I make my trips coincide with friends traveling there too, or already living there. 2. As some have stated here: your own bed is better. The biggest problem I have so far is that some airbnbs don't have proper curtains so I am wide awake at 6 am. A quality sleepmask works wonders here. 3. A lack of a proper place to work from. Often airbnbs will list a desk when in reality it's a shitty table with a bad chair. But this has been much better since COVID restrictions lifted and I have a list of good libraries to work from.
The upsides are amazing, and not really worth listing because I think these should be kind of 'obvious' to you if you were to consider such a lifestyle to begin with. One thing I will note here is that there is something amazing about closing your laptop after a good stint of work and walking straight into the most beautiful nature, or an amazing local restaurant.
EDIT: I get that the article is kind of pushing this as a money-saving trick to live in the same area. I think it's probably not worth it for that purpose. But if you care to do so then downsides 2/3 above may still apply.
The biggest downsides so far are: 1. Periods of loneliness. I don't mind this too much as I can just use the time to work on interesting personal projects. And I make my trips coincide with friends traveling there too, or already living there. 2. As some have stated here: your own bed is better. The biggest problem I have so far is that some airbnbs don't have proper curtains so I am wide awake at 6 am. A quality sleepmask works wonders here. 3. A lack of a proper place to work from. Often airbnbs will list a desk when in reality it's a shitty table with a bad chair. But this has been much better since COVID restrictions lifted and I have a list of good libraries to work from.
The upsides are amazing, and not really worth listing because I think these should be kind of 'obvious' to you if you were to consider such a lifestyle to begin with. One thing I will note here is that there is something amazing about closing your laptop after a good stint of work and walking straight into the most beautiful nature, or an amazing local restaurant.
EDIT: I get that the article is kind of pushing this as a money-saving trick to live in the same area. I think it's probably not worth it for that purpose. But if you care to do so then downsides 2/3 above may still apply.
> House sells for $450k after realtor’s fees
Hrm, this person is not average.
"According to Zillow, the typical value of U.S. homes is $269,039 as of January 2021, a 9.1% increase from January 2020." [1]
[1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/median-home...
Hrm, this person is not average.
"According to Zillow, the typical value of U.S. homes is $269,039 as of January 2021, a 9.1% increase from January 2020." [1]
[1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/median-home...
And clearly he/she own it entirely.
I would think that most people have a mortgage and do not own their property free and clear.
I would think that most people have a mortgage and do not own their property free and clear.
Ignoring the rent vs own part of the article, and just looking at the title:
This is one of the best uses of AirBnB currently! It circumvents or avoids most local prohibitions against short term stays (airbnbs) because these are long term stays over 30 days. Its one of the best options for having a furnished place already.
If you aren't budget constrained its a great way to mix things up.
By that I mean maybe you are still renting at a homebase elsewhere without even bothering with subletting, or maybe you do home improvement things in your airbnb such as getting a fan or pillows or dining sets that you are going to leave there, but improve your life while you are there.
This isn't stuff you have to be rich for (by US standards), but it is something you have to be in a fairly privileged place for financially, so that's nice. And honestly, didn't these last few years teach you all not to delay satisfaction, don't worry about the most optimal financial situations if you in fact can financially accept the consequences. Doing something like that for a few months or even most of a year doesn't impact your ability to save up for a house or get yourself stuck in a mortgage for an additional thirty years, I mean that's many of you all's plan right? So just live a little and do whatever you want.
This is one of the best uses of AirBnB currently! It circumvents or avoids most local prohibitions against short term stays (airbnbs) because these are long term stays over 30 days. Its one of the best options for having a furnished place already.
If you aren't budget constrained its a great way to mix things up.
By that I mean maybe you are still renting at a homebase elsewhere without even bothering with subletting, or maybe you do home improvement things in your airbnb such as getting a fan or pillows or dining sets that you are going to leave there, but improve your life while you are there.
This isn't stuff you have to be rich for (by US standards), but it is something you have to be in a fairly privileged place for financially, so that's nice. And honestly, didn't these last few years teach you all not to delay satisfaction, don't worry about the most optimal financial situations if you in fact can financially accept the consequences. Doing something like that for a few months or even most of a year doesn't impact your ability to save up for a house or get yourself stuck in a mortgage for an additional thirty years, I mean that's many of you all's plan right? So just live a little and do whatever you want.
> You can deduct some for house appreciation
I mean... in some markets price on housing can do something like 10%/yr... so real estate _is_ the relatively stable investment that you can also live in...
This only really makes sense if you don't have enough starting capital to enter real estate...
I mean... in some markets price on housing can do something like 10%/yr... so real estate _is_ the relatively stable investment that you can also live in...
This only really makes sense if you don't have enough starting capital to enter real estate...
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I hope in the future, people are able to move around the world and live in different cities for 3-4 months at a time.
It's gonna be extra fun when tax season comes around...
If I lived in 10 countries a year I would probably not even reach the minimum wage threshold in any of them at the same time!
Actually, there's multiple problems with this:
- Just because you can get a tourist visa "on landing" does not mean you can work in the country (even remotely), so unless you apply for proper work visas everywhere you go you're likely working illegally.
- Many countries like the US base their taxes on your _global income_, so have fun navigating tax treaties, getting double taxed (multiple tax residency locations), and/or (most likely) inadvertantly violating some tax code somewhere...
- Even moving between states/provinces in the same country sometimes has these issues.
- Just because you can get a tourist visa "on landing" does not mean you can work in the country (even remotely), so unless you apply for proper work visas everywhere you go you're likely working illegally.
- Many countries like the US base their taxes on your _global income_, so have fun navigating tax treaties, getting double taxed (multiple tax residency locations), and/or (most likely) inadvertantly violating some tax code somewhere...
- Even moving between states/provinces in the same country sometimes has these issues.
And then there is rules like 6 months of working in a country. But these vary by country, so it could be in 12 month period, or inside a year or inside a taxation year(1.4-31.3 fex. NZ). And yes, all of those are different.
And inside this the ways those days are counted varies with different rules...
Not to forget that from which country the company pays you. Or if you have some entity where it is based...
It is not like taxentity hasn't thought about these things... Taxation is complicated and varied, specially when you increase number of entities involved above two...
And inside this the ways those days are counted varies with different rules...
Not to forget that from which country the company pays you. Or if you have some entity where it is based...
It is not like taxentity hasn't thought about these things... Taxation is complicated and varied, specially when you increase number of entities involved above two...
The future is already here.
Sneak preview: it's awesome, sort of. Traveling and living short-term in different places has many wonderful aspects, but it's not perfect. There are also many downsides/hassles.
I also suspect the number of people who will want to do this for a long period of time (>1-2 years) is fairly low. Then you have to figure out where you want to live and if it's not in your home country, you have to deal with where you really want to live versus where you can get residency.
Sneak preview: it's awesome, sort of. Traveling and living short-term in different places has many wonderful aspects, but it's not perfect. There are also many downsides/hassles.
I also suspect the number of people who will want to do this for a long period of time (>1-2 years) is fairly low. Then you have to figure out where you want to live and if it's not in your home country, you have to deal with where you really want to live versus where you can get residency.
I prefer moving and living somewhere for longer periods, such as 3 to 4 years. It's long enough to learn the language and get to know the place fairly well. That 3-4 months just scratches the surface.
Yes 3-4 months goes by a lot faster than you expect. The challenge with staying somewhere for years is that it's not trivial to obtain residency in most places.
Can’t people do this right now ?
Yes, I meant I hope it's easy and affordable enough for any one to be able to do it if they so choose.
A larger supply of medium-term rentals, more remote-work options, and streamlined legal processes for living a global life, would all contribute to that lifestyle being more common.
A larger supply of medium-term rentals, more remote-work options, and streamlined legal processes for living a global life, would all contribute to that lifestyle being more common.
Of course it gets better if you get more than 7%!
Or 15%! Or even 100%! Yes, life sure is easy when you can just throw a number at the wall.
What about the cameras in the units placed by skeezy landlords? If they tell you there is a surveillance camera /anywhere/, it's not even illegal for them to hide more cameras in the unit.
> What about the cameras in the units placed by skeezy landlords?
What about them?
With that idea there could be cameras everywhere: hotels, bathrooms, your phone can spy on you, etc
What about them?
With that idea there could be cameras everywhere: hotels, bathrooms, your phone can spy on you, etc
Always interesting to Read how people life this way. personally I can't be bothered with the hassle of moving several times per year... and biggest of all, I like my own bed!
i don't see where they might store their clothes and other such items, unless they are living out of a suit-case (which, to be fair, might be quite a good minimalist kind of life)
Yeah I've actually been doing this since March -- not entirely by choice, but I view it as a growing experience. And I'm itching to settle down because of this problem. It doesn't fit every lifestyle.
The first issue is that I play guitar and percussion, and that's non-negotiable (I've played every day for decades). So that's already more than you can take on a plane. I bought duplicates on the east and west coast and use storage spaces; it's still an issue.
I also bike which is non-negotiable -- I'll be listless and unhappy otherwise.
Other things I like having, but can live without for a few months, but maybe not a year: real speakers (I dislike bluetooth/laptop speakers), a single kettlebell for exercise (there are gyms but it seems wasteful if that's all I need), rice cooker and toaster oven (eating out for every meal is invariably bad for your health IMO). This is not a lot of stuff, and it delivers tremendous value, but it's heavy and bulky compared to a suitcase.
I'll also mention that working on laptops for long periods is pretty bad for your posture (maybe people in their 20's won't notice YET), and it helps to have more than that.
I don't consider this a particularly elaborate lifestyle, but it's already way more than you can take on a plane, and it's actually even more than you can easily take to a Lyft to move across town, etc.
So I got to live in 8 different places in the Bay Area and NYC, which has been fun, but it's been a hassle in some important ways. I did pare down my stuff drastically month over month, especially after flying to the east coast. But at the end of the day it would compromise my lifestyle way too much to live like this permanently.
I'm surprised that so many people can live out of a suitcase permanently! I've done 7-8 months of major adaptation and I don't think it's for me.
The first issue is that I play guitar and percussion, and that's non-negotiable (I've played every day for decades). So that's already more than you can take on a plane. I bought duplicates on the east and west coast and use storage spaces; it's still an issue.
I also bike which is non-negotiable -- I'll be listless and unhappy otherwise.
Other things I like having, but can live without for a few months, but maybe not a year: real speakers (I dislike bluetooth/laptop speakers), a single kettlebell for exercise (there are gyms but it seems wasteful if that's all I need), rice cooker and toaster oven (eating out for every meal is invariably bad for your health IMO). This is not a lot of stuff, and it delivers tremendous value, but it's heavy and bulky compared to a suitcase.
I'll also mention that working on laptops for long periods is pretty bad for your posture (maybe people in their 20's won't notice YET), and it helps to have more than that.
I don't consider this a particularly elaborate lifestyle, but it's already way more than you can take on a plane, and it's actually even more than you can easily take to a Lyft to move across town, etc.
So I got to live in 8 different places in the Bay Area and NYC, which has been fun, but it's been a hassle in some important ways. I did pare down my stuff drastically month over month, especially after flying to the east coast. But at the end of the day it would compromise my lifestyle way too much to live like this permanently.
I'm surprised that so many people can live out of a suitcase permanently! I've done 7-8 months of major adaptation and I don't think it's for me.
I started living out of airbnb’s a year ago, and simply downgraded all my stuff into a giant checked back, a carry on, and a backpack. Everything else is either gone, or packed in my car, which is in storage.
Turns out all I really need at this point in my life is clothes, my laptops (personal and work), and a handful of miscellaneous items.
Turns out all I really need at this point in my life is clothes, my laptops (personal and work), and a handful of miscellaneous items.
Yeah we're doing the same actually and between myself, my wife, and our kid we've got it done to three checked bags and 2 backpacks. It's freeing in a way to get rid of most of that stuff honestly.
I find it interesting that the author only looks at Airbnb as a source of housing, but it seemingly doesn’t occur to them that it’s also a way to flip their liability (their house) into an asset.
I moved to an inexpensive property in another country, and put my home on Airbnb. It yields far more than 7% - more like 20%, and is comfortably enough to live on, as I bought the cheap home here outright.
I moved to an inexpensive property in another country, and put my home on Airbnb. It yields far more than 7% - more like 20%, and is comfortably enough to live on, as I bought the cheap home here outright.
That seems a much better plan than the author's, because if things go wrong you still have the original asset to fall back on (you can move back into your house if the bottom falls out of the airbnb thing and you can't live on it any more).
you might need to be near your house that you let out as an AirBnB rental, so that you can take care of stuff for it (or pay for some sort of management in lieu).
If your cheap housing is far away from your asset, that will have a cost associated with managing the airbnb rental that you need to account for (either with time, or payment).
If your cheap housing is far away from your asset, that will have a cost associated with managing the airbnb rental that you need to account for (either with time, or payment).
The management cost is well, well within the margin, and I run a two night minimum to ensure it doesn’t eat the nightly rate.
Another advantage is that many countries offer tax incentives to rent furnished holiday lets - in the U.K., for instance, your mortgage interest and utility bills become allowable expenses, offsettable against income from the property.
Another advantage is that many countries offer tax incentives to rent furnished holiday lets - in the U.K., for instance, your mortgage interest and utility bills become allowable expenses, offsettable against income from the property.
So we live in airbnbs and have for over a year. Our long term plan is exactly as you described which is have a "home base" and house swap or rent ours on airbnb while we then travel via airbnb which is a bit easier / more stable of an approach imho.
I was thinking the same thing. Other alternatives would be to reconfigure his house so it's a duplex, and renting out half, or put a "ADU" in the yard, live in that, and rent out the house.
They could also just offer their house as a traditional rental, with much the same effect.
Yeah, but with a much worse yield, and without the option of staying there or moving back in from time to time.
> I invest the $450k at 7% (I could get private loans at 10% or some syndication deals at higher than 7%, but let’s be conservative.)
Are there that many 7% investments that are safe enough to gamble your savings and the roof over your head on?
Are there that many 7% investments that are safe enough to gamble your savings and the roof over your head on?
Low fee while market index funds have historically returned that or more (in the long run).
those growth includes capital gains, and it's not in small, measured steps like 7%/pa, but in large spurts and stops over many years.
if you have consistent costs every year to pay, you cannot rely on capital gains to fund it imho. Only coupon payments from bonds can do that - unless you're willing to take the risk that you might have to eat into your capital for down years.
if you have consistent costs every year to pay, you cannot rely on capital gains to fund it imho. Only coupon payments from bonds can do that - unless you're willing to take the risk that you might have to eat into your capital for down years.
I used to put money in https://www.twino.eu, which offers plenty of guaranteed loans at about 10% interest. The main risk is the company defaults, but they have a healthy balance sheet and have been around for about a decade.
Used to means you don't anymore. What made you stop?
Because I prefer picking stocks – more risk with similar average returns, but I can invest in companies I like.
In this economy? Yes. The S&P 500 alone is up 20% this year.
If you invest in the S&P total return and take out 7% per year your capital will dwindle pretty quickly. The annualised total return on the S&P since 2000 has been 3.31% https://www.buyupside.com/alphavantagelive/stockreturncalcco...
"The annualised total return on the S&P since 2000 has been 3.31%". This is way off. I'm not sure what their mistake is.
The alfphaantagelive calculator is reporting much lower numbers than the real value.
Yahoo has a symbol for S&P 500 total return: ^SP500TR Check out: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5ESP500TR/chart?p=%5ESP500T...
Punch in December 2000 for start and today's date for end. You'll get 398% total return. 398/21 = 19% annual return.
Total return includes dividend re-investment.
The alphavatangelive calculator says 3.31%, but even without dividend reinvestment the S&P 500 reports 11% average annual gains.
This does not price in inflation which historically reported as 3% over long periods and was much lower until recently.
Damodran has as good historical financial returns summary page: http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/... . According to the spreadsheet linked to on that page, S&P 500 returns with dividend reinvested is 11.64% since 1928. Assuming 4% inflation, that's 7.64% annual returns.
So going all in on the stock market over a long time you can withdraw 7%. Even through world wars, depressions and stagflation periods. Some decades will be better than others.
The alfphaantagelive calculator is reporting much lower numbers than the real value.
Yahoo has a symbol for S&P 500 total return: ^SP500TR Check out: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5ESP500TR/chart?p=%5ESP500T...
Punch in December 2000 for start and today's date for end. You'll get 398% total return. 398/21 = 19% annual return.
Total return includes dividend re-investment.
The alphavatangelive calculator says 3.31%, but even without dividend reinvestment the S&P 500 reports 11% average annual gains.
This does not price in inflation which historically reported as 3% over long periods and was much lower until recently.
Damodran has as good historical financial returns summary page: http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/... . According to the spreadsheet linked to on that page, S&P 500 returns with dividend reinvested is 11.64% since 1928. Assuming 4% inflation, that's 7.64% annual returns.
So going all in on the stock market over a long time you can withdraw 7%. Even through world wars, depressions and stagflation periods. Some decades will be better than others.
> Punch in December 2000 for start and today's date for end. You'll get 398% total return. 398/21 = 19% annual return.
I don't think you understand how percentages work. 19% annual return means on average every year you get 19% of the amount you have at the beginning of the year, not 19% of the amount when you began investing in December 2000.
If the 21-year return is 398%, the correct annualized return is pow(1+3.98,1/21)-1 which is 7.9%.
I don't think you understand how percentages work. 19% annual return means on average every year you get 19% of the amount you have at the beginning of the year, not 19% of the amount when you began investing in December 2000.
If the 21-year return is 398%, the correct annualized return is pow(1+3.98,1/21)-1 which is 7.9%.
Thanks for the clarification. Mea culpa. That 19% seemed too high.
Note the spreadsheet from Professor Damadoaran : http://www.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/pc/datasets/histretSP.xls
The years 2001-2020 inclusive S&P 500 arithmetic average inflation adjusted total return is 6.79% ( =average(o92:o111) ). Which is below the 1928-2020 average return of 8.5%. Inflation might be underestimated. 6.7 is a lot closer to your calculation!
Note the spreadsheet from Professor Damadoaran : http://www.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/pc/datasets/histretSP.xls
The years 2001-2020 inclusive S&P 500 arithmetic average inflation adjusted total return is 6.79% ( =average(o92:o111) ). Which is below the 1928-2020 average return of 8.5%. Inflation might be underestimated. 6.7 is a lot closer to your calculation!
The oughts were a particularly bad decade for stocks, one of three in the past century. It isn't fair to choose a test period where stocks under-performed 50% of the time.
A portfolio that includes some gold would have performed well enough during the 70s and 00s (gold wasn't a commodity in the same sense in the 30s).
A portfolio that includes some gold would have performed well enough during the 70s and 00s (gold wasn't a commodity in the same sense in the 30s).
Still you can't really expect a constant 7% return. Looking at S&P 500 since 1990 there haven't been that many years when growth was between -10% and +10%:
2018: -6.24% 2016: 9.54% 2015: -0.73% 2011: 0.00% 2007: 3.53% 2005: 3.00% 2004: 8.99% 1994: -1.54% 1993: 7.06% 1992: 7.06% 1990: -6.56%
in all other years it was double digit in either direction (of course it more often increased than fell). So it's still a huge gamble, if you start this at the beginning of recession and/or need to eat into your capital it won't end great.
2018: -6.24% 2016: 9.54% 2015: -0.73% 2011: 0.00% 2007: 3.53% 2005: 3.00% 2004: 8.99% 1994: -1.54% 1993: 7.06% 1992: 7.06% 1990: -6.56%
in all other years it was double digit in either direction (of course it more often increased than fell). So it's still a huge gamble, if you start this at the beginning of recession and/or need to eat into your capital it won't end great.
I agree. 4% is the most commonly discussed yearly withdrawal rate, and it might be too high.
The point is: it doesn't matter what the average return over a given period is, the safe draw-down rate is always less than that much.
You should only invest in S&P if you’re ignorant of the market.
The best way to invest is to pick individual stocks in companies you have carefully evaluated.
Also I never said anything about taking out 7% a year.
The best way to invest is to pick individual stocks in companies you have carefully evaluated.
Also I never said anything about taking out 7% a year.
>The best way to invest is to pick individual stocks in companies you have carefully evaluated.
Only if you're able to guarantee a priori that you're an outstandingly good stock picker. A substantial majority of retail stock pickers lose out significantly to broad-based index funds.
Only if you're able to guarantee a priori that you're an outstandingly good stock picker. A substantial majority of retail stock pickers lose out significantly to broad-based index funds.
The entire conversation is about using investments to create income, of which substantial portions must be disbursed annually. The original article says that their investments were deployed so that "7% earns me $31.5k per year.".
Sell covered calls on your investments for income and you won’t have to worry about draw downs so much.
Selling covered calls is a bet that the market isn't going to go up. In a rising market your equity gets called away so it just gives up much of your upside.
This is terrible advice.
an economy where the US government racked up nearly 7 trillion in debt the last 2 years to keep it from utterly collapsing. The US economy is a ponzi scheme at this point
Anyone who is building a plan like this needs to seriously consider whether 7% is yield realistic in the long term. I would contend that for that yield you are taking some risk which in this plan you can't afford. A very commonly quoted "safe" yield assumption is 4%. Yes you can earn more, but in many cases for more yield you are taking more risk. For example the author mentions private loans and syndications, which carry a significant risk of loss of capital. Since they are planning to live on the proceeds of that capital, a loss would be a big problem, because your retirement income may not be easy to supplement (lots of older people find they can't work or can't easily get a job).
Abstracting away your concept, any number could be too high even 4%.
Assuming a build up method of risk, which is a practical/theoretical way you can categorize returns across asset classes, you start with the "risk free rate" which often could be the US short term borrowing rate. Currently it's pegged artificially at 0.25%.
From there you add risk. So a municipal bond backing a school would earn a 2% "spread" or risk premium for a 2.25% return, and your "Uber but for XYZ" would be significantly higher.
Rather than picking arbitrary cutoffs it's helpful to think about returns in terms of where they sit relative to GDP growth. From 1750 to 2010 the equity and certain real markets track GDP growth (not in any particular year but in inflation adjusted terms). Which makes sense conceptually since asset markets should be a exchange rate adjusted money supply expression of GDP growth conceptually.
Why does this matter? Germany, for example, has negative rates. Rules of thumb absolutely break as you tangentially approach 0% base rates.
1 . https://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/federal-funds-... 2. https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gross-domestic-product
Assuming a build up method of risk, which is a practical/theoretical way you can categorize returns across asset classes, you start with the "risk free rate" which often could be the US short term borrowing rate. Currently it's pegged artificially at 0.25%.
From there you add risk. So a municipal bond backing a school would earn a 2% "spread" or risk premium for a 2.25% return, and your "Uber but for XYZ" would be significantly higher.
Rather than picking arbitrary cutoffs it's helpful to think about returns in terms of where they sit relative to GDP growth. From 1750 to 2010 the equity and certain real markets track GDP growth (not in any particular year but in inflation adjusted terms). Which makes sense conceptually since asset markets should be a exchange rate adjusted money supply expression of GDP growth conceptually.
Why does this matter? Germany, for example, has negative rates. Rules of thumb absolutely break as you tangentially approach 0% base rates.
1 . https://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/federal-funds-... 2. https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gross-domestic-product
I wonder if there is a way to hedge the potential losses by picking an underlying asset that follows the rental market more closely? The best I can come up with is to own and rent a similar property to the one you would be renting via AirBNB. Unfortunately this seems unappealing to me, as in this scenario I still have many of the same trappings of owning a house (which is is the reason I wanted to live in AirBNBs in the first place!) The second solution I have thought about is to invest in a REIT that invests in residential real estate. I believe this can work but 7% would still feel too high for me. Also, one would have to pay tax on the income from either of these scenarios, which wouldn't be necessary if you owned your house outright.
Maybe own a property in LCOLA - earning income but also having a place to live during a downturn
> Anyone who is building a plan like this needs to seriously consider whether 7% is yield realistic in the long term.
Funny you mention that... I was looking at my bank accounts yesterday and noticed that one of the non-transaction "saver" accounts offered 0.1% interest for deposits over $10,000 and 0% for less. (This is a major bank in Australia.)
Funny you mention that... I was looking at my bank accounts yesterday and noticed that one of the non-transaction "saver" accounts offered 0.1% interest for deposits over $10,000 and 0% for less. (This is a major bank in Australia.)
I am assuming 0% yield (in real terms). I worry that it might be too optimistic still.
He's ignoring taxes as well.
The author is assuming a low inflation economy.
However the low inflation days might already be over. Annual inflation is already at 5.3%, and not forecast to go down.
So that 7% is already closer to 1.7%.
However the low inflation days might already be over. Annual inflation is already at 5.3%, and not forecast to go down.
So that 7% is already closer to 1.7%.
Inflation is measured by a basket of items that doesn’t currently include housing. So chances are it’s significantly higher for most people.
All of this assumes there would be no tax on the yield. The big benefit of owning a house is that the coupon (living in the house) isn't taxed anywhere in the civilised world. Whereas interest payments are usually taxed at least as capital gains if not income.
> isn't taxed anywhere in the civilised world.
Some countries do tax imputed rent, such as Belgium, Iceland, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Spain and Switzerland.
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputed_rent
Some countries do tax imputed rent, such as Belgium, Iceland, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Spain and Switzerland.
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputed_rent
I'm not aware of such a tax in Spain, at least where I leave.
He might be referring to the impuesto de patrimonio, which you pay when your total net worth(including the value of your house) goes above a certain, regionally set figure.
Belgium does that? There is a sort of property tax (cadastre I think), but it’s not very high. And rent income is tax free
They call it cadaster income, which, according to the Belgian ministry of finance website, is “a fictitious income that corresponds to the average yearly net income of the property to the owner.”
Isn’t that pretty much the same as “imputed rent”, after subtracting costs?
(I haven’t seen an Belgian tax bill in over 20 years, but I remember that estimate income to be very low indeed.)
Isn’t that pretty much the same as “imputed rent”, after subtracting costs?
(I haven’t seen an Belgian tax bill in over 20 years, but I remember that estimate income to be very low indeed.)