A scientist is studying the brains of people who died of Covid(latimes.com)
latimes.com
A scientist is studying the brains of people who died of Covid
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-11-05/how-does-covid-19-change-the-brain-this-scientist-is-finding-out
95 comments
When I got COVID 6 months back, brain-fog was the only complication I had and it got me really worried as being physically disabled any cognitive impairment would mean I loose everything.
Brain-fog to me was a mix of being dull & delirious.
Since oxygen saturation and other vitals were at acceptable limits I was in home quarantine and there was no help(treatment) for brain-fog in specific where I live. Fortunately after two weeks, the signs of normal brain function returned and now I'm confident that my cognitive abilities are back to normal.
But since I had COVID, I'm having digestive problems for certain foods(Greens) something which I have been consuming since childhood and abundantly for past several years for health reasons. Now I'm having digestive issues with almost all greens, Some severe(Moringa Oleifera). I heard similar experience about digestive problems to certain food items of a doctor in an Economist podcast about long-COVID.
Brain-fog to me was a mix of being dull & delirious.
Since oxygen saturation and other vitals were at acceptable limits I was in home quarantine and there was no help(treatment) for brain-fog in specific where I live. Fortunately after two weeks, the signs of normal brain function returned and now I'm confident that my cognitive abilities are back to normal.
But since I had COVID, I'm having digestive problems for certain foods(Greens) something which I have been consuming since childhood and abundantly for past several years for health reasons. Now I'm having digestive issues with almost all greens, Some severe(Moringa Oleifera). I heard similar experience about digestive problems to certain food items of a doctor in an Economist podcast about long-COVID.
Could tryptophane supplementation help here?
Maybe. However tryptophan by itself won't heal you once the pathology onset has occurred.
The usual scheme is to use a combination of medications in order to unblock the electron transport chain while inhibiting the inflammatory response.
If you want to know more, read the comments section of the video above. Some of them contain hints and even actionable recipes.
Keywords, hints, typical doses: B1/Thiamin (in form of HCL 100-2000 mg, Benfothiamin 100-600 mg, TTFD 50-800 mg), B3/Niacin (in form of nicotinic acid - never, nicotinamide 250 mg, Nicotinamide Riboside 100-400 mg), Mg (200-400 mg), K (50-300 mg), B2 (50-400 mg), C (150-500 mg), D (5000 I.U. - 400 000 I.U), Aspirin (150-500 mg), CoQ10 (60-200 mg), Alpha-lipoic Acid (60-300 mg), Acetyl-L-Carnitine (500 mg), Zinc (20-50 mg), Copper (2mg), N-Acetyl-Cysteine/NAC (600-1800 mg), Betaine (50 mg), Quercetin (250 mg), Trans-reservatrol (150 mg), Multivitamin Complex (obligatory when large doses of B vitamins are taken).
Please note that provided list of medications is for reference only. Those medications are carefully combined to reach the desired therapeutic effect. B1, B3, Multivitamin Complex, C, D and Mg are essential elements. Others are used in more involved cases.
Nutritional correction is obligatory: totally no alcohol, minimize high carbs (< 50 g of sugar per day), totally avoid sweeteners (with the exception of stevia), avoid highly-processed food. Milk and meat are god send for people in that condition. Avoid the prolonged periods of hunger but be careful to not eat too much. Having a slightest sense of hunger after the meal is beneficial. Make at least 2 hour intervals between meals.
The usual scheme is to use a combination of medications in order to unblock the electron transport chain while inhibiting the inflammatory response.
If you want to know more, read the comments section of the video above. Some of them contain hints and even actionable recipes.
Keywords, hints, typical doses: B1/Thiamin (in form of HCL 100-2000 mg, Benfothiamin 100-600 mg, TTFD 50-800 mg), B3/Niacin (in form of nicotinic acid - never, nicotinamide 250 mg, Nicotinamide Riboside 100-400 mg), Mg (200-400 mg), K (50-300 mg), B2 (50-400 mg), C (150-500 mg), D (5000 I.U. - 400 000 I.U), Aspirin (150-500 mg), CoQ10 (60-200 mg), Alpha-lipoic Acid (60-300 mg), Acetyl-L-Carnitine (500 mg), Zinc (20-50 mg), Copper (2mg), N-Acetyl-Cysteine/NAC (600-1800 mg), Betaine (50 mg), Quercetin (250 mg), Trans-reservatrol (150 mg), Multivitamin Complex (obligatory when large doses of B vitamins are taken).
Please note that provided list of medications is for reference only. Those medications are carefully combined to reach the desired therapeutic effect. B1, B3, Multivitamin Complex, C, D and Mg are essential elements. Others are used in more involved cases.
Nutritional correction is obligatory: totally no alcohol, minimize high carbs (< 50 g of sugar per day), totally avoid sweeteners (with the exception of stevia), avoid highly-processed food. Milk and meat are god send for people in that condition. Avoid the prolonged periods of hunger but be careful to not eat too much. Having a slightest sense of hunger after the meal is beneficial. Make at least 2 hour intervals between meals.
As someone with a Complex I Deficiency I did not know you could "unblock" the electron transport chain. Taking these supplements without knowing your genetics will result in undue suffering and confusion.
And to speak of the election transport chain and not include Manganese and ascorbic acid means this comment should not be taken at face value.
https://www.jci.org/articles/view/118798
In fact, it is the oxidative stress that damages the ETC.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21699493/
As far as ME/CFS and its' similarities with Long Covid, the answer is here is fixing an ROS imbalance as well, IMHO:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095882X2...
And to speak of the election transport chain and not include Manganese and ascorbic acid means this comment should not be taken at face value.
https://www.jci.org/articles/view/118798
In fact, it is the oxidative stress that damages the ETC.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21699493/
As far as ME/CFS and its' similarities with Long Covid, the answer is here is fixing an ROS imbalance as well, IMHO:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095882X2...
> Complex I Deficiency
Acquired or genetical?
> Manganese and ascorbic acid
Ascorbic acid is usually a part of vitamin C supplementation. Multivitamin complexes do contain manganese, but one needs to check. Did not know they were essential. Thanks for the information.
Besides that, there is a work of Dr Costantini that lays down the basis of ETC "restart" with full enzymatical saturation. Take a look [1]. Definitely works for some people, sometimes to a great surprise after decades of suffering.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-aQHxp97oA
Acquired or genetical?
> Manganese and ascorbic acid
Ascorbic acid is usually a part of vitamin C supplementation. Multivitamin complexes do contain manganese, but one needs to check. Did not know they were essential. Thanks for the information.
Besides that, there is a work of Dr Costantini that lays down the basis of ETC "restart" with full enzymatical saturation. Take a look [1]. Definitely works for some people, sometimes to a great surprise after decades of suffering.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-aQHxp97oA
It's genetic, and partial.
Unless you know your genetics, telling someone what they need is useless. I know my genetics. And I tried Thiamine years ago. It made me manic, most likely because my real issue was a depletion of manganese that not only increase superoxide damage in my mitochondria, but also inhibited my TCA cycle in the wrong location. Taking thiamine pushed my TCA cycle but since my TCA cycle was inhibited, the metabolites that were created caused other issues. Or it could have been that the Thiamine meant a build up of NADH that my Complex I could not handle and it just created more (e-) in my mitochondrial matrix and then more superoxdides.
Unless you know your genetics, telling someone what they need is useless. I know my genetics. And I tried Thiamine years ago. It made me manic, most likely because my real issue was a depletion of manganese that not only increase superoxide damage in my mitochondria, but also inhibited my TCA cycle in the wrong location. Taking thiamine pushed my TCA cycle but since my TCA cycle was inhibited, the metabolites that were created caused other issues. Or it could have been that the Thiamine meant a build up of NADH that my Complex I could not handle and it just created more (e-) in my mitochondrial matrix and then more superoxdides.
> Ascorbic acid is usually a part of vitamin C supplementation.
Ascorbic acid is Vitamin C.
Ascorbic acid is Vitamin C.
Why is a multivitamin complex necessary after large doses of B vitamins? I thought that B vitamins are just water-soluble and your body removes the excess.
Vitamins are catalysts of chemical reactions. When you speed up reactions dependent on, say, B1 - you should also be sure that adjacent reactions are fastened up. Otherwise, this may cause an imbalance which can be disastrous or even fatal.
The same rule goes to minerals - when you take vitamins, the reaction speeds increase and they start to consume significantly more substrates causing electrolyte disbalances, which can be disastrous and even fatal. That's why you have to make sure that you take enough of Mg, K, P when you get vitamins as well.
The same rule goes to minerals - when you take vitamins, the reaction speeds increase and they start to consume significantly more substrates causing electrolyte disbalances, which can be disastrous and even fatal. That's why you have to make sure that you take enough of Mg, K, P when you get vitamins as well.
As an example I will show how taking his dose riboflavin might increase the need for Zinc and Magnesium.
To turn Riboflavin into FMN using an enzyme called RFK, which needs zinc and magnesium as cofactors:
https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q969G6
The it turns FMN to turn into FAD using FLAD1, which needs Magnesium as a cofactor.
https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q8NFF5
To turn Riboflavin into FMN using an enzyme called RFK, which needs zinc and magnesium as cofactors:
https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q969G6
The it turns FMN to turn into FAD using FLAD1, which needs Magnesium as a cofactor.
https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q8NFF5
No, and it wold probably make things worse if this is true. Tryptophan is turned into NAD but if you do not have enough of the cofactors to make NAD down the Kynurenine pathway then you will just deplete yourself of cofactors even further.
I do not think depletion of NAD is the the issue honestly, but if it is the real issue is a B2 or B6 deficiency after infection.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publica...
I do not think depletion of NAD is the the issue honestly, but if it is the real issue is a B2 or B6 deficiency after infection.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Fiammetta-Verni/publica...
> fatigue, brain fog, neurological damage, problems with breathing, acquired type 2 diabetes, panic attacks, POTS, GI and cardiovascular issues.
I'm NOT trying to provoke, troll, pick a fight, etc. but...This list correlates very well with the Western diet & lifestyle.
Could Covid be contributing? Yes, of course. But when it comes to deaths Covid is more of an opportunist than a pure solo killer. It does far better against the weak/weakened (e.g., elderly, those with preexisting conditions, etc.) That said, perhaps the same can be said for the survivors? That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus.
In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making? For example, respirators save lives, but they cause can infection and have other side effects.
I'm not disputing the dangers of Covid. But context matters, and when it comes to health, healthcare, and analysis we'd be naive to ignore the context (i.e., the Western diet + lifestyle was already a known danger).
I'm NOT trying to provoke, troll, pick a fight, etc. but...This list correlates very well with the Western diet & lifestyle.
Could Covid be contributing? Yes, of course. But when it comes to deaths Covid is more of an opportunist than a pure solo killer. It does far better against the weak/weakened (e.g., elderly, those with preexisting conditions, etc.) That said, perhaps the same can be said for the survivors? That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus.
In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making? For example, respirators save lives, but they cause can infection and have other side effects.
I'm not disputing the dangers of Covid. But context matters, and when it comes to health, healthcare, and analysis we'd be naive to ignore the context (i.e., the Western diet + lifestyle was already a known danger).
But when it comes to deaths Covid is more of an opportunist than a pure solo killer. It does far better against the weak/weakened (e.g., elderly, those with preexisting conditions, etc.)
That's generally true for all disease. Disease preys upon the weak.
That's generally true for all disease. Disease preys upon the weak.
Not necessarily, the 1918 Flu Pandemic for example mostly killed young adults rather than elderly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Mortality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Mortality
That's not what that chart says. It says "In addition to killing babies, small children and elderly, it killed an unusually large number of young adults." It creates a W shape rather a U shape. The higher figures are still the youngest and oldest.
For 1918 Flu 99% of deaths in US were people under 65 vs 24% deaths under 65 for Covid-19... "nearly half the deaths the were people 20-40" in the US, compared with 2% of deaths for Covid
The chart says people less <1 or >85 were killed at a higher rate than people 25-35, but those were significantly smaller populations.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-...
The chart says people less <1 or >85 were killed at a higher rate than people 25-35, but those were significantly smaller populations.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-...
I don't really follow where you are getting your data. The link in this comment only seems to show Covid data and no Spanish flu data (unless I'm missing something) and the Wikipedia article indicates we don't have firm numbers even for the overall death toll of the Spanish flu.
It's generally true that disease preys upon the weak. That's not something that stands out to me, personally, as a special observation about the current pandemic.
Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule, but I don't really know why you are engaging in this way.
From my end, it looks like pedantry and it looks like pointless pedantry in this case. I don't see how it casts light on our current crisis.
I'm interested in better understanding our current crisis in hopes of finding a path forward.
It's generally true that disease preys upon the weak. That's not something that stands out to me, personally, as a special observation about the current pandemic.
Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule, but I don't really know why you are engaging in this way.
From my end, it looks like pedantry and it looks like pointless pedantry in this case. I don't see how it casts light on our current crisis.
I'm interested in better understanding our current crisis in hopes of finding a path forward.
> I don't really follow where you are getting your data. The link in this comment only seems to show Covid data and no Spanish flu data (unless I'm missing something) and the Wikipedia article indicates we don't have firm numbers even for the overall death toll of the Spanish flu.
It's right in the cited wikipedia article.
And that was a rude reply. You've made no specific claim and cited no evidence, only making broad tautological pontifications about "disease preying on the weak", when the profile of who diseases can target varies considerably like in the above example.
It's right in the cited wikipedia article.
And that was a rude reply. You've made no specific claim and cited no evidence, only making broad tautological pontifications about "disease preying on the weak", when the profile of who diseases can target varies considerably like in the above example.
80% plus obesity for those badly affected. Its not a coincidence. When the herd is weak, it only takes a nudge to have severe die offs.
The natural immunity we need to collectively prioritize is maximum health before we get tested by nature.
The natural immunity we need to collectively prioritize is maximum health before we get tested by nature.
>That is, perhaps these long Covid issues aren't 100% due to the virus.
I agree. But it is hard to find a specific correlation. The neurological complications after Covid affect people of all ages except very young. Even the late teenagers (18 yr) can be affected, albeit to a lesser degree.
> In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making?
Some antibiotics like Levofloxacin and Fluoroquinolone are known to induce a mitochondrial disease in some people. This may be a contributing factor.
I agree. But it is hard to find a specific correlation. The neurological complications after Covid affect people of all ages except very young. Even the late teenagers (18 yr) can be affected, albeit to a lesser degree.
> In addition, the severe cases get medical treatment. What contributions are those treatmemts making?
Some antibiotics like Levofloxacin and Fluoroquinolone are known to induce a mitochondrial disease in some people. This may be a contributing factor.
The only thread I can find that runs through all these disorders is an inability to balance oxidative stress. The reason symptomatic COVID will vary so much between people is that genetics, nutrition, and life stress are all variables that no one is tracking.
And the reason fluoroquinolones hurt mitochondria is that they produce an enormous oxidative stress burned on the mitochondria, depleting SOD and Glutathione.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/
Why do you think people with, say diabetes, are prone to worse outcomes? It is because they are already unable to handle oxidative stress:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/
And the reason fluoroquinolones hurt mitochondria is that they produce an enormous oxidative stress burned on the mitochondria, depleting SOD and Glutathione.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249743/
Why do you think people with, say diabetes, are prone to worse outcomes? It is because they are already unable to handle oxidative stress:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2996922/
chiefalchemist,
I do not understand your comment and it is probably a result of your misinterpretation of what I have proposed.
I understand that my idea seems simple, but what I am proposing is that many people could have an inability to handle the extra burden of oxidative stress that COVID puts on them, and yet have no current signs of disease. These are the so called "healthy" people who end up hospitalized with COVID.
It is just that people with diabetes and much more likely to be sick because the underlying disability is a poor diet has lead to their inability to handle oxidative stress.
This would link why people with mood disorders are also at higher risk from COVID.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12640-018-9906-2
And the ten fold increase of poor outcomes in people with Down's syndrome:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089158499...
I do not understand your comment and it is probably a result of your misinterpretation of what I have proposed.
I understand that my idea seems simple, but what I am proposing is that many people could have an inability to handle the extra burden of oxidative stress that COVID puts on them, and yet have no current signs of disease. These are the so called "healthy" people who end up hospitalized with COVID.
It is just that people with diabetes and much more likely to be sick because the underlying disability is a poor diet has lead to their inability to handle oxidative stress.
This would link why people with mood disorders are also at higher risk from COVID.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12640-018-9906-2
And the ten fold increase of poor outcomes in people with Down's syndrome:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089158499...
Again, not being snarky but diabetes is a (worse) outcome (of the Western diet + lifestyle). The fact that its been normalized and can be treated (with meds) doesn't change the fact it is a risky and dangerous disease.
Blaming Covid is convenient but it's also deceptive. Is there any science that says diabetes makes you stronger?
Blaming Covid is convenient but it's also deceptive. Is there any science that says diabetes makes you stronger?
Well, it may be that type 2 diabetes has the same mitochondrial roots. Specifically, the oxidative phosphorylation pathway gets wrecked in T2DM. This produces ROS. A lot of ROS, and it looks like the very same defect occurs in long Covid patients. And some of them become type 2 diabetics out of nowhere.
But. I was able to observe, diagnose and treat one person with such condition. She had Covid in August 2020, then vaccinated in 2021 and had the second Covid in August 2021. All episodes were not severe, just usual cold.
During the second Covid, at the very start of illness, she started to develop the signs of POTS. She was administered B1 TTFD, B3 Nicotinamide Riboside, multivitamin, D and C. POTS quickly resolved in 1 week. After that, I had a hard time talking her to continue the medications. She believed that she was strong enough already.
All went seemingly well. She totally got well and fully recovered. On occasional walk I told her about mitochondria, ATP synthesis, electron transport chain, suffering people with burning feet and hands, just for kicks. She told me that I was a mad scientist, that all such diseases are designed by nature to make the Darwin selection work etc. And that I should not really care as people are not able to value that.
The next day we were amid a walk again and that time it was 12 km (7.5 miles) distance. In the middle of the route, she had her first panic attack. All of a sudden, her breath rate increased significantly (hyperventilation) and face were starting to cover in large redish blumishes. She then told me that her knee muscles are going to collapse (miopathy) and she may fall. She felt the need for sugar and water. We were able to go into gas station and get a sweet snack. I estimated the volume corresponding to 15 g of sugar and gave it to here. Panic attack had stopped like it did not happen at all.
Most people will be puzzled by this situation, but it was clear as day to me. Her oxidative phosphorylation pathway got inhibited and she became unable to consume the usual levels of glucose from the blood. Her ATP production was down. When ATP production became critically low, the nervous system began to panic and the endocrinal and cardiovascular systems entered into compensatory state, trying to increase oxygen saturation (hyperventilation), the bloodflow (tachycardia) and glucose levels to overcompensate the ever decreasing ATP production. Once she ate 15 g of sugar compensation of ATP production was reached and she stabilized. Attack was stopped right there. She had a stroke of false hypoglycemia and it was resolved now.
Important observation - this occurred during the long walk which depletes ATP faster due to physical load.
Next morning, I measured her blood glucose level. She went into diabetic area (7.4 mmol/L), despite having an absolute healthy glucose levels (5.2 mmol/L) months before.
I immediately suggested the therapy targeted on mitochondrial ETC. B1 TTFD, B3 (Nicotinamd Riboside), Multivitamin Complex, C, D. This time, I extended the list of supplements with Q10, alpha-lipoic acid, L-Carnitine and Benfotiamine given the seriousness of situation.
Her glucose uptake were gradually improving. After 3 weeks of therapy she had 5.5 mmol/L fasting glucose level which was healthy and totally fine. No diabetes.
We continued with that route for 1 more month, then gradually downgrading to Q10, alpha-lipoic acid and B1 (100mg HCL supportive dose). She was on stable 5.2 mmol/L fasting glucose levels which is excellent.
Currently she is on Q10 60 mg + B1 HCL 100 mg every other day. No signs of regression. We will drop the medications in month or two.
Was I able to treat the diabetes? Probably no. What I've treated is a long Covid syndrome that could lead to diabetes and variety of other induced pathologies.
Why? Because science frees from suffering and I like to help people, despite all their flaws.
I hope that someone somewhere will find this information helpful.
But. I was able to observe, diagnose and treat one person with such condition. She had Covid in August 2020, then vaccinated in 2021 and had the second Covid in August 2021. All episodes were not severe, just usual cold.
During the second Covid, at the very start of illness, she started to develop the signs of POTS. She was administered B1 TTFD, B3 Nicotinamide Riboside, multivitamin, D and C. POTS quickly resolved in 1 week. After that, I had a hard time talking her to continue the medications. She believed that she was strong enough already.
All went seemingly well. She totally got well and fully recovered. On occasional walk I told her about mitochondria, ATP synthesis, electron transport chain, suffering people with burning feet and hands, just for kicks. She told me that I was a mad scientist, that all such diseases are designed by nature to make the Darwin selection work etc. And that I should not really care as people are not able to value that.
The next day we were amid a walk again and that time it was 12 km (7.5 miles) distance. In the middle of the route, she had her first panic attack. All of a sudden, her breath rate increased significantly (hyperventilation) and face were starting to cover in large redish blumishes. She then told me that her knee muscles are going to collapse (miopathy) and she may fall. She felt the need for sugar and water. We were able to go into gas station and get a sweet snack. I estimated the volume corresponding to 15 g of sugar and gave it to here. Panic attack had stopped like it did not happen at all.
Most people will be puzzled by this situation, but it was clear as day to me. Her oxidative phosphorylation pathway got inhibited and she became unable to consume the usual levels of glucose from the blood. Her ATP production was down. When ATP production became critically low, the nervous system began to panic and the endocrinal and cardiovascular systems entered into compensatory state, trying to increase oxygen saturation (hyperventilation), the bloodflow (tachycardia) and glucose levels to overcompensate the ever decreasing ATP production. Once she ate 15 g of sugar compensation of ATP production was reached and she stabilized. Attack was stopped right there. She had a stroke of false hypoglycemia and it was resolved now.
Important observation - this occurred during the long walk which depletes ATP faster due to physical load.
Next morning, I measured her blood glucose level. She went into diabetic area (7.4 mmol/L), despite having an absolute healthy glucose levels (5.2 mmol/L) months before.
I immediately suggested the therapy targeted on mitochondrial ETC. B1 TTFD, B3 (Nicotinamd Riboside), Multivitamin Complex, C, D. This time, I extended the list of supplements with Q10, alpha-lipoic acid, L-Carnitine and Benfotiamine given the seriousness of situation.
Her glucose uptake were gradually improving. After 3 weeks of therapy she had 5.5 mmol/L fasting glucose level which was healthy and totally fine. No diabetes.
We continued with that route for 1 more month, then gradually downgrading to Q10, alpha-lipoic acid and B1 (100mg HCL supportive dose). She was on stable 5.2 mmol/L fasting glucose levels which is excellent.
Currently she is on Q10 60 mg + B1 HCL 100 mg every other day. No signs of regression. We will drop the medications in month or two.
Was I able to treat the diabetes? Probably no. What I've treated is a long Covid syndrome that could lead to diabetes and variety of other induced pathologies.
Why? Because science frees from suffering and I like to help people, despite all their flaws.
I hope that someone somewhere will find this information helpful.
This is fascinating.
If you don't mind my asking, what kind of practice do you do? This sounds very different from the usual general practitioner family doctor stuff.
If you don't mind my asking, what kind of practice do you do? This sounds very different from the usual general practitioner family doctor stuff.
It is not the usual doctor stuff, but it should be.
I was misdiagnosed my whole life even though it was obvious there was some maternal genetic (metabolic/mood/immune) issues passed down through my family. It was only my own efforts at understanding genetics and the role nutrition plays in creating and controlling oxidative stress was I able to ween myself off of medications (many of which made me worse because breaking them down caused even more oxidative stress).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5841237/
The research fails at being implemented because these are polygenic disorders. ME/CFS can be caused by several different genotypes, so they will have to look at each person individually for answers.
Doctors do not care about nutrition and they do not yet understand the viability of vitamins as cures or prodrugs. I had a doctor yelling, yes yelling, at my friend saying she was not anemic and did not have a B6 deficiency. She went to another primary care doctor and she confirmed the anemia and when's he had her serum B6 tested she had a serious deficiency. The doctor put her on B6.
Since I was a child I had mood issues (Anxiety, Depression, Bipolar, Aspergers), fatigue, chronic muscle pain (lactic acid), and immune disorders (Ankylosing Spondylitis). It turned so bad I could not work anymore and have been on disability for 20 years. Yet, I getting any type of non routine test is a battle and when I do, and they are off, they just shrug. Why not look into it more so I can start working again? And it will be the same battle for people with Long Covid.
Regardless, Manganese (not magnesium) has changed my life pretty drastically. I do not think there is a final solution for me since my condition is genetic, but what I have done helped more than any medicine I have ever been on. And when I tell my doctors they say; "Well, I am glad that worked for you." They are not even interested.
Without knowing your genetics or having labs you can test with some supplements, but just know if you have a bad reaction that still tells you some good information! But a bad reaction is a signal what you are taking should be stopped.
Understand haw oxidative stress is controlled in the body and you will make great progress. For example, exercise increases oxidative stress, so, long covid...ya know?
I was misdiagnosed my whole life even though it was obvious there was some maternal genetic (metabolic/mood/immune) issues passed down through my family. It was only my own efforts at understanding genetics and the role nutrition plays in creating and controlling oxidative stress was I able to ween myself off of medications (many of which made me worse because breaking them down caused even more oxidative stress).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5841237/
The research fails at being implemented because these are polygenic disorders. ME/CFS can be caused by several different genotypes, so they will have to look at each person individually for answers.
Doctors do not care about nutrition and they do not yet understand the viability of vitamins as cures or prodrugs. I had a doctor yelling, yes yelling, at my friend saying she was not anemic and did not have a B6 deficiency. She went to another primary care doctor and she confirmed the anemia and when's he had her serum B6 tested she had a serious deficiency. The doctor put her on B6.
Since I was a child I had mood issues (Anxiety, Depression, Bipolar, Aspergers), fatigue, chronic muscle pain (lactic acid), and immune disorders (Ankylosing Spondylitis). It turned so bad I could not work anymore and have been on disability for 20 years. Yet, I getting any type of non routine test is a battle and when I do, and they are off, they just shrug. Why not look into it more so I can start working again? And it will be the same battle for people with Long Covid.
Regardless, Manganese (not magnesium) has changed my life pretty drastically. I do not think there is a final solution for me since my condition is genetic, but what I have done helped more than any medicine I have ever been on. And when I tell my doctors they say; "Well, I am glad that worked for you." They are not even interested.
Without knowing your genetics or having labs you can test with some supplements, but just know if you have a bad reaction that still tells you some good information! But a bad reaction is a signal what you are taking should be stopped.
Understand haw oxidative stress is controlled in the body and you will make great progress. For example, exercise increases oxidative stress, so, long covid...ya know?
garbanzos, would you mind contacting me at
[email protected] (iCloud private relay)
I think we have a lot we can collaborate on and talk about.
[email protected] (iCloud private relay)
I think we have a lot we can collaborate on and talk about.
Yeah, it's not easy / simple. But there's risk in allowing a less science aware media dictate the default narrative.
As for antibiotics vs "the gut", what I've read (on the gut) says there are known connections to the immune system, brain, nervous system, etc. Crush your gut (with ABX) and there will be side effects.
p.s. re: late teenagers - in the West youth is no longer synonymous with health. They're on the same diet + lifestyle. But, again, the media consistently fails to mention this. It's easier to blame than to own (a known problem).
As for antibiotics vs "the gut", what I've read (on the gut) says there are known connections to the immune system, brain, nervous system, etc. Crush your gut (with ABX) and there will be side effects.
p.s. re: late teenagers - in the West youth is no longer synonymous with health. They're on the same diet + lifestyle. But, again, the media consistently fails to mention this. It's easier to blame than to own (a known problem).
[deleted]
How can a few days of viral infection deplete NAD for months? There are feedback loops which are supposed to fix this right away.
Also shouldnt tissue hypoxia be quite evident?
Also shouldnt tissue hypoxia be quite evident?
>How can a few days of viral infection deplete NAD for months?
That's a mystery. A longer than usual disease progression fully depletes the NAD, while a flu does this partially? A more involved attack on mitochondria?
On a general note, metabolism is like a self-supported recursive function. But when one stack frame collapses, the whole calculation breaks like a house of cards causing the interlocked dependencies of pathological phenotypes.
>Also shouldnt tissue hypoxia be quite evident?
Not at all. For example, not all the labs can test for lactic acidosis. And even the ongoing lactic acidosis may be so localized that the measurement is negligible up to the error of measurement.
That's a mystery. A longer than usual disease progression fully depletes the NAD, while a flu does this partially? A more involved attack on mitochondria?
On a general note, metabolism is like a self-supported recursive function. But when one stack frame collapses, the whole calculation breaks like a house of cards causing the interlocked dependencies of pathological phenotypes.
>Also shouldnt tissue hypoxia be quite evident?
Not at all. For example, not all the labs can test for lactic acidosis. And even the ongoing lactic acidosis may be so localized that the measurement is negligible up to the error of measurement.
As someone who is disabled with a mitochondrial disease (Complex 1 Deficiency) that expresses as a mood disorder (which includes the anxiety they speak of in the article) and ME/CFS, I feel sure enough to posit that the cause of all the symptoms from covid are brought about by an individuals ability to handle oxidative stress. This increase in oxidative stress is most likely the result of a combination of genetics and vitamin depletion after infection.
Through years of living with my disorder I have found that any stress (environmental, psychological, physical) leads to a build up in oxidative stress in the mitochondria, triggering either mania or profound fatigue, pain and depression. Through shaping my environment and the use of specific supplements I am able to mostly control my mood and health without the use of daily medications.
Until we talk seriously about nutrition and stress, people will keep dying of COVID19, and they will never be free of medications that help in the short term but have bad/unknown effects in the long term.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002432052...
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3921/10/2/257
Through years of living with my disorder I have found that any stress (environmental, psychological, physical) leads to a build up in oxidative stress in the mitochondria, triggering either mania or profound fatigue, pain and depression. Through shaping my environment and the use of specific supplements I am able to mostly control my mood and health without the use of daily medications.
Until we talk seriously about nutrition and stress, people will keep dying of COVID19, and they will never be free of medications that help in the short term but have bad/unknown effects in the long term.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002432052...
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3921/10/2/257
Until we talk seriously about nutrition and stress...
There have been articles about how our crops have drastically less nutritional value than they used to have. So your comment has me wondering if that's kind of a root cause of the pandemic itself.
I can't find the article I'm thinking of but found these:
Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago (13 yrs ago)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=516155
The great nutrient collapse (4yrs ago)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15253127
As Carbon Dioxide Levels Rise, Major Crops Are Losing Nutrients (3yrs ago)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17353013
There have been articles about how our crops have drastically less nutritional value than they used to have. So your comment has me wondering if that's kind of a root cause of the pandemic itself.
I can't find the article I'm thinking of but found these:
Supermarket vegetables now 5-40% lower in nutrients than 50 years ago (13 yrs ago)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=516155
The great nutrient collapse (4yrs ago)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15253127
As Carbon Dioxide Levels Rise, Major Crops Are Losing Nutrients (3yrs ago)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17353013
Her name is not "A", is Maura Boldrini from Columbia Medical College.
Dear journalists, stop dehumanizing scientists and their workplaces, please.
Dear journalists, stop dehumanizing scientists and their workplaces, please.
The article is almost biographical, narrative and romantic, as a writing style, when it comes to the lab head. And is also very explicit about the research being a team effort - condition which makes both 'A scientist' and '"This" scientist' improper.
[deleted]
Same way watching tv does.
> ... Have found signs that the virus can establish a foothold of sorts on the periphery of the brain, where the protective blood-brain barrier opens up to allow key molecules to slip through. One of those places is the olfactory bulb ... Yet scientists have so far found little evidence that the virus penetrates any deeper than that. Instead, they’ve seen the type of damage caused by strokes, as well as the blood clots that may have precipitated them. That’s part of why Boldrini and many others suspect that inflammation — the immune system’s all-hands-on-deck response to an invader — may play an essential role in the brain damage experienced by COVID-19 patients. Inflammation can trigger blood clots, and once a clot forms, inflammation increases around it. It’s similar to what’s seen in people who experience traumatic brain injury ... [Such] people ... [may show] sudden changes in behavior and personality [including] suicide ... It’s eerily similar to what many COVID-19 patients face
> COVID-19 damages the hippocampus. That could help explain why some patients have lingering issues with depression and anxiety. If this damage is caused by inflammation, it probably wreaks havoc in several ways. Scientists suspect it disrupts the flow of serotonin ... and prompts the body to make kynurenine instead, even though it’s toxic to neurons. Inflammation also triggers coagulation, creating clots that can block blood flow to cells and kill them. And it activates the microglia, which may attempt to remove more neurons than they normally would.
> COVID-19 damages the hippocampus. That could help explain why some patients have lingering issues with depression and anxiety. If this damage is caused by inflammation, it probably wreaks havoc in several ways. Scientists suspect it disrupts the flow of serotonin ... and prompts the body to make kynurenine instead, even though it’s toxic to neurons. Inflammation also triggers coagulation, creating clots that can block blood flow to cells and kill them. And it activates the microglia, which may attempt to remove more neurons than they normally would.
A different view [1]:
> In the new study, Belgian and German researchers claim that the virus infects sustentacular cells but not OSNs [olfactory sensory neurons]. “That is just a critical distinction,” said the senior author Peter Mombaerts, who directs the Max Planck Research Unit for Neurogenetics in Frankfurt, Germany. “Once you believe that olfactory neurons can be infected, there is a quick route into the olfactory bulb and then you’re in the brain already.”
> Nobody doubts that the central nervous system is affected by the disease; the debate concerns whether these effects are due to the virus infecting neurons or some more indirect mechanism, such as an inflammatory response in the blood irrigating the brain – with different implications for prognosis and treatment.
[1] Covid-19 virus does not infect human brain cells, study suggests; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/03/covid-19-virus...
> In the new study, Belgian and German researchers claim that the virus infects sustentacular cells but not OSNs [olfactory sensory neurons]. “That is just a critical distinction,” said the senior author Peter Mombaerts, who directs the Max Planck Research Unit for Neurogenetics in Frankfurt, Germany. “Once you believe that olfactory neurons can be infected, there is a quick route into the olfactory bulb and then you’re in the brain already.”
> Nobody doubts that the central nervous system is affected by the disease; the debate concerns whether these effects are due to the virus infecting neurons or some more indirect mechanism, such as an inflammatory response in the blood irrigating the brain – with different implications for prognosis and treatment.
[1] Covid-19 virus does not infect human brain cells, study suggests; https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/03/covid-19-virus...
My hypothesis is that Sars-cov-2 breaks blood brain barrier and also mother connection to baby in vitro. Likely same is true about all coronaviruses.
Are you protected against this if you are vaccinated?
And if a T cell detects an infected neuron in the nose, will it kill it, or leave it alone (immune privilege)?
And if a T cell detects an infected neuron in the nose, will it kill it, or leave it alone (immune privilege)?
There's been different studies for symptoms like these that either have halved the chances of getting long covid or no change at all.
So I think vaccines definitely don't fully protect against this, but they might give better odds. It's unclear by how much, though.
So I think vaccines definitely don't fully protect against this, but they might give better odds. It's unclear by how much, though.
I've found this article/report showing it halves the chances (note that it halves the chances of long COVID amongst those infected, which means, since the vaccine also lowers the risk of getting infected, getting the vaccine will lower the total chances around a factor of maybe 4-10 (depending on which vaccine and strain of virus) compared to unvaccinated):
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58410354 (the study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...)
Do you have any link to other studies (esp. those that showed there was no change)?
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58410354 (the study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...)
Do you have any link to other studies (esp. those that showed there was no change)?
This one shows some odd results:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.26.21265508v...
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2021/10/26/202...
From this I interpreted that Long COVID feature (any) didn't have significant outcome difference. And that some symptoms oddly happen more within vaccinated.
Hazard ratios for the outcome within 6 months of infection with SARS-CoV-2 between individuals vaccinated vs. unvaccinated against COVID-19. HR lower than 1 indicate outcomes less common among vaccinated individuals. Horizontal bars represent 95% confidence intervals. Each outcome is a composite endpoint with death as a component to address competing risks. The contribution of the outcome of interest to the overall incidence of the composite endpoint is encoded by the colour.
There may be bias in this study of course, maybe unvaccinated and vaccinated behave very differently and the behaviour could be a cause.
Vaccinated may be more anxious folk and therefore end up with more anxiety after covid as well.
I'm missing some other study that I think found around 0-20% reduction for different long term issues. Can't find it right now.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.26.21265508v...
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2021/10/26/202...
From this I interpreted that Long COVID feature (any) didn't have significant outcome difference. And that some symptoms oddly happen more within vaccinated.
Hazard ratios for the outcome within 6 months of infection with SARS-CoV-2 between individuals vaccinated vs. unvaccinated against COVID-19. HR lower than 1 indicate outcomes less common among vaccinated individuals. Horizontal bars represent 95% confidence intervals. Each outcome is a composite endpoint with death as a component to address competing risks. The contribution of the outcome of interest to the overall incidence of the composite endpoint is encoded by the colour.
There may be bias in this study of course, maybe unvaccinated and vaccinated behave very differently and the behaviour could be a cause.
Vaccinated may be more anxious folk and therefore end up with more anxiety after covid as well.
I'm missing some other study that I think found around 0-20% reduction for different long term issues. Can't find it right now.
> Vaccinated may be more anxious folk and therefore end up with more anxiety after covid as well
I think there is a big mental thing at play with Covid for sure. Me and my buddy got Covid at the same time (before vaccination). I wasn't worried at all to be honest, because I don't let the media persuade me about things. For example: Letting my kids go out and play by themselves.
I basically just watched movies, checked my oxygen levels every now and then and called it a day. I felt like shit though. His situation was different. We have both the same build. He constantly kept going to urgent care freaking out that he couldn't breath even though his oxygen was fine. I think he was having panic attacks. He ended up getting through it but it might have a lasting or at least some impact to his mental his.
You're right though seeing young skinny, healthy, people at my work getting boosters just makes me cringe. I think to myself that there is some kind of mental disorder going on.
I think there is a big mental thing at play with Covid for sure. Me and my buddy got Covid at the same time (before vaccination). I wasn't worried at all to be honest, because I don't let the media persuade me about things. For example: Letting my kids go out and play by themselves.
I basically just watched movies, checked my oxygen levels every now and then and called it a day. I felt like shit though. His situation was different. We have both the same build. He constantly kept going to urgent care freaking out that he couldn't breath even though his oxygen was fine. I think he was having panic attacks. He ended up getting through it but it might have a lasting or at least some impact to his mental his.
You're right though seeing young skinny, healthy, people at my work getting boosters just makes me cringe. I think to myself that there is some kind of mental disorder going on.
This also explains the inhibition of serotonin production - all tryptophan reserves (serotonin precursor) are redirected to NAD syhtesis.
I cannot recommend this material enough [1]. Some quantative info on cellular respiration in Covid patients is presented at [2].
This sums up the symptoms of long Covid: fatigue, brain fog, neurological damage, problems with breathing, acquired type 2 diabetes, panic attacks, POTS, GI and cardiovascular issues. This hypothesis also provides the basis for an actionable treatment plan, which is similar to treating Beriberi.
Statistically 30% of Covid survivors are affected, regardless the severity of original illness. If your family member or you had a Covid you should be very alert.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY
[2] https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpcell.004...