Tildeverse.org: A loose association of like-minded tilde communities(tildeverse.org)
tildeverse.org
Tildeverse.org: A loose association of like-minded tilde communities
https://tildeverse.org/
88 comments
I don't know why, but personally I always associate old school style ~/ as more ... trust worthy? I don't know why though!
Perhaps because I remember having those kind of addresses when I younger, and therefore associate with an older generation? (Not that that guarantees trustworthiness!) Or maybe because a lot of academic personal sites use that as well?
I guess in terms of "what looks nicer", for me:
1. I assume this is just a directory
2. '@' in URLs just feels weird now, it's not a usename:password type thing
3. Not particularly pretty
4. I think that signifies what it is, and who it is
Perhaps because I remember having those kind of addresses when I younger, and therefore associate with an older generation? (Not that that guarantees trustworthiness!) Or maybe because a lot of academic personal sites use that as well?
I guess in terms of "what looks nicer", for me:
1. I assume this is just a directory
2. '@' in URLs just feels weird now, it's not a usename:password type thing
3. Not particularly pretty
4. I think that signifies what it is, and who it is
Personally I'd prefer example.com/users/foo, or even example.com/u/foo, because (i) you don't need unusual characters like @ or ~, and (ii) you don't need server config to look for a wildcard in the root.
Alternatively, if as you say it is for hosting "user generated content aimed at technical folks", users might want to feel like they own their own (sub-)domain, so how about foo.example.com instead?
Alternatively, if as you say it is for hosting "user generated content aimed at technical folks", users might want to feel like they own their own (sub-)domain, so how about foo.example.com instead?
I prefer ~, but that's probably mostly because I've found the sites that use it to align better with my personal philosophies (see: Sourcehut, most of the tildeverse, a lot of academic pages).
Your #1 is full of problems about users not being capable of using their names or taking over system pages. So, whatever you do, avoid it, it's a bad one.
The `@` has a special meaning in URLs, but I think all browsers are smart enough to not break on it.
The `@` has a special meaning in URLs, but I think all browsers are smart enough to not break on it.
The `@` has no special meaning in the path part of a URL.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3986#section-3.3
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc3986#section-3.3
Personal preference is @username
I have all the content off the root and I don't want a collision between /articlename and a user with that same name.
~ just makes me feel too old-school. And of course @ is used everywhere to indicate a username now.
I have all the content off the root and I don't want a collision between /articlename and a user with that same name.
~ just makes me feel too old-school. And of course @ is used everywhere to indicate a username now.
Tildes are painful to type on several non-English layouts (e.g. Swedish). I like their Unixy vibe but disdain having to type them.
Hmm, I use both Swedish and English layouts and I'd say they're about as painful to type on both. It's almost the exact same movement, except with the other hand.
Really? Tilde is a dead key on a typical Swedish keyboard, meaning that you have to type AltGr+~ followed by space. Technically, the space is not needed for letters that ~ doesn't compose with, but having to think about that is part of the pain.
I also can't agree that it's almost the same hand movement, you have to use your right thumb for AltGr while also reaching for the key with your right hand. On an English layout you'd use your pinky for shift, or even your other hand.
I also can't agree that it's almost the same hand movement, you have to use your right thumb for AltGr while also reaching for the key with your right hand. On an English layout you'd use your pinky for shift, or even your other hand.
You've already got your thumb by space after hitting ~. Pretty natural to just tap it.
Swedish QWERTY has a lot of awkward symbols, but ~ isn't anywhere near the same class as something like {
Swedish QWERTY has a lot of awkward symbols, but ~ isn't anywhere near the same class as something like {
Sure, {[]} are in their own league. But ~ is still very different, in a negative way, on the Swedish layout compared to an English layout.
And tildes don't exist al all on some keyboards. I remember memorising Alt+126 to enter a tilde on Windows with an Italian keyboard.
I would prefer http://foo.binarytask.com but that works best if you have you own custom DNS software.
I mean, FWIW ~camgunz "expands" to /home/camgunzcamgunz (or /home/camgunz/camgunz), so it's a little incorrect? It's like "pixel graphic" games now that aim more for nostalgia than accuracy: Genesis games don't look like modern pixel graphic games, ~camgunz isn't actually how it works, etc. So I guess I prefer @camgunz for non-URLs, but blah://dir/camgunz for URLs?
> FWIW ~camgunz "expands" to /home/camgunzcamgunz (or /home/camgunz/camgunz)
It doesn't. ~user looks up the home directory of "user".
It doesn't. ~user looks up the home directory of "user".
Actually, it is how it works. Try doing "cd ~camgunz" and it should take you to the home directory for camgunz.
WOW I had no idea! Why does this work haha
EDIT: Oh I guess yeah, for other users. Innnnnnteresting, and then ~ is just shorthand for you. Huh.
EDIT: Oh I guess yeah, for other users. Innnnnnteresting, and then ~ is just shorthand for you. Huh.
Website creator redirected to Rick Astley, maybe they were getting too much traffic? Funny but weird and vaguely hostile without any explanation
It only rickrolls you when you click from HN.
Is jwz behind tildeverse.org?
EDIT: it still redirects there from a new tab for me. Is it like this for everyone, has it set a cookie and I'll always be sent there? In any case, I don't care about this product anymore if they're going to be an asshole about it.
EDIT: it still redirects there from a new tab for me. Is it like this for everyone, has it set a cookie and I'll always be sent there? In any case, I don't care about this product anymore if they're going to be an asshole about it.
I was wondering why "vaguely hostile", but then I saw opening the URL itself works fine.
The "tilde" part of the name comes from the ~ character, traditionally used to indicate a users public HTML directory.
For instance, if you were a user "dannyboy" on example.com you might host a website in /home/dannyboy/public_html and it'd be exposed via example.com/~dannoyboy
For instance, if you were a user "dannyboy" on example.com you might host a website in /home/dannyboy/public_html and it'd be exposed via example.com/~dannoyboy
Origins of Tilde Club: https://medium.com/message/tilde-club-i-had-a-couple-drinks-...
Similarly used by https://tildes.net (invites available if you email me).
and unix shell expansion before that
As they say, $HOME is where the tilde is.
The tildeverse is amazing! So many creative folks in there and many of them can be found on irc.tilde.chat which is still widely used.
In some way, i find tilde servers to be some kind of hosting coop where users can tailor to their own needs and contribute more services to the shared infra. For example, thunix.net and fr.tild3.org both have public ansible recipes where users can submit patches.
With fellow people from ~fr, we published an article a few months back arguing how tilde servers change the power balance on the network during lockdowns: https://fr.tild3.org/en/blog/2021/may-first/
In some way, i find tilde servers to be some kind of hosting coop where users can tailor to their own needs and contribute more services to the shared infra. For example, thunix.net and fr.tild3.org both have public ansible recipes where users can submit patches.
With fellow people from ~fr, we published an article a few months back arguing how tilde servers change the power balance on the network during lockdowns: https://fr.tild3.org/en/blog/2021/may-first/
You can also visit them on gopher but some users don't have an active gopher space so it's a bit hit & miss sometimes (still less boring than mainstream web and its "here's what our algorithm thinks you will like")
Increasingly, Gemini too.
Pretty sure I just got Rickroll'd...
Wow, I don't think I've been rickrolled since 2007.
There really should be a built in browser feature that prompts the user that the link they clicked redirects somewhere else.
There really should be a built in browser feature that prompts the user that the link they clicked redirects somewhere else.
Firefox used to have better redirect limitations, I guess web developers didn't like that and they were noisier than the users that took advantage of it.
From context it seems like an awesome community, the sort of thing I'd like to be a part of, and I'm sure some other folks here feel similarly; but it's been redirected to a rickroll video, which I'm guessing means something like, "Part of what makes this fun is that it's small and doesn't get too much attention, so move along please." Okay. wistful sigh
I mean you /can/ just type in the URL.
Sameless bread-promotion: I run a bread-themed tilde server here (with no rickroll): https://breadpunk.club
I was inspired by the tildeverse and all the friends I've made on IRC! It's great fun :) Highly recommend.
I got started with https://tilde.town, which is v comfy.
I was inspired by the tildeverse and all the friends I've made on IRC! It's great fun :) Highly recommend.
I got started with https://tilde.town, which is v comfy.
Archived version:
https://web.archive.org/web/20211119133814/https://tildevers...
Looks like it's just the homepage that's been rickrolled, the members page appears to be up: https://tildeverse.org/members/
Looks like it's just the homepage that's been rickrolled, the members page appears to be up: https://tildeverse.org/members/
> tildes are pubnixes in the spirit of tilde.club, which was created in 2014 by paul ford.
I don't know what any of that means.
I don't know what any of that means.
Paul Ford puts it much better himself:
>Tilde.club is one cheap, unmodified Unix computer on the Internet.
>That’s it. That’s all it is. It is no more than that.
>If you look for more for it to be you will find nothing.
The implication I'd add is that it's just a 'shared' unix machine.
>Tilde.club is one cheap, unmodified Unix computer on the Internet.
>That’s it. That’s all it is. It is no more than that.
>If you look for more for it to be you will find nothing.
The implication I'd add is that it's just a 'shared' unix machine.
Hehe same here. I always feel like I have been living under a rock when a page like this gets pushed to HN.
It largely consists of a community of people eschewing social media and the big platforms. You'll see it pop up here and there, but a lot of the reason you aren't seeing it a lot is quite intentional. Much of the content isn't even published on the clearnet, instead only accessible over Gopher or Gemini.
It's a hodge-podge of punk, DIY, bohemian, counter-cultural weirdos of every flavor. Poets and unabombers and lovers and shitposters.
It's a hodge-podge of punk, DIY, bohemian, counter-cultural weirdos of every flavor. Poets and unabombers and lovers and shitposters.
> Much of the content isn't even published on the clearnet, instead only accessible over Gopher or Gemini.
How is gopher or gemini not "clearnet"? Gopher doesn't even have any encryption (gemini uses TLS). Seriously though, i find it weird that everything Google/Facebook doesn't link you to is considered "darknet" nowadays.
How is gopher or gemini not "clearnet"? Gopher doesn't even have any encryption (gemini uses TLS). Seriously though, i find it weird that everything Google/Facebook doesn't link you to is considered "darknet" nowadays.
Clearnet as opposed to deep web, not dark web.
What difference do you make between those? From my perspective, they're just marketing lingo invented by security vendors, intelligence agencies and cheap journalists.
EDIT: Is my mailbox darkweb or deepweb? What about LAN services? Torrents? Is anything not available on HTTP and public DNS not "clearnet"?
EDIT: Is my mailbox darkweb or deepweb? What about LAN services? Torrents? Is anything not available on HTTP and public DNS not "clearnet"?
If it's intentionally shielded from prying eyes, and possibly nefarious, it's the dark web. More often than not this would be on Tor, I2P, or similar, but that's not required. If it simply can't be easily indexed by search engines, it's the deep web. Overlap between the two is possible.
Your mailbox would be deep web, if it's exposed to the Internet. If your mailbox uses an auto-responder to respond to coded messages with encrypted binaries of an illegal nature, it would be dark web.
Your mailbox would be deep web, if it's exposed to the Internet. If your mailbox uses an auto-responder to respond to coded messages with encrypted binaries of an illegal nature, it would be dark web.
Definition is driven by convention, but if it's not trying to show up on Google or the socials, it can be argued it's not on the clearnet.
Isn't this just saying popular things are "clearnet" and not popular things aren't? That doesn't sound right.
Note that I didn't say "if it's not showing up on Google [...]", but "if it's not trying to show up on Google [...]". It's not that it's not popular, it doesn't care about popularity or want to be popular, for one reason or another.
This may seem strange if you come from the commercial web, but on independent web, it's a pretty common sentiment. There is very little benefit to actually getting visitors from the outside if you have no interactivity and no ads. It's not that they attempt to keep visitors away, they just don't do much to bring them in. Blocking commercial web crawlers isn't particularly rare, for example. Some don't support HTTPS, which means you won't get listed on Google.
This may seem strange if you come from the commercial web, but on independent web, it's a pretty common sentiment. There is very little benefit to actually getting visitors from the outside if you have no interactivity and no ads. It's not that they attempt to keep visitors away, they just don't do much to bring them in. Blocking commercial web crawlers isn't particularly rare, for example. Some don't support HTTPS, which means you won't get listed on Google.
> It's not that it's not popular, it doesn't care about popularity or want to be popular, for one reason or another.
Right that's what I mean. Is http://danluu.com/ outside of the clearnet?
> This may seem strange if you come from the commercial web, but on independent web, it's a pretty common sentiment.
I've written Gemini software so I don't need the intro. I do get however that "smolweb" people really like talking about their values at the drop of a hat.
Right that's what I mean. Is http://danluu.com/ outside of the clearnet?
> This may seem strange if you come from the commercial web, but on independent web, it's a pretty common sentiment.
I've written Gemini software so I don't need the intro. I do get however that "smolweb" people really like talking about their values at the drop of a hat.
if included in such definitions, your mailbox would be deepweb (if you access it through a standard web browser), since it can't be found just by following links.
> if included in such definitions, your mailbox would be deepweb (if you access it through a standard web browser), since it can't be found just by following links.
A mailing list that didn't have web-accessible archives would qualify. Arguably, so would a list that had archives that just weren't crawlable.
A mailing list that didn't have web-accessible archives would qualify. Arguably, so would a list that had archives that just weren't crawlable.
A mailing list that doesn't have web-accessible archives is not *web at all. If the archives are web-accessible but protected/hidden, deepweb.
Sorry, I misspoke. I meant publicly-accessible web archives, vs. ones that are publicly accessible (ie. browsable), but not crawlable (via robots.txt, for example).
This guy summarised the community well. I wouldn't go that far to call them unabombers though. Some of them might have some radical ideas regarding the way software should be written. But that's it.
I did actually find a site that basically boiled down to "Ted Kazinski Was Right And Here Is Why".
But I mean more the whole RMS vibe some people are rocking.
But I mean more the whole RMS vibe some people are rocking.
"Proprietary software and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race."
> I did actually find a site that basically boiled down to "Ted Kazinski Was Right And Here Is Why".
That's not a terribly uncommon sentiment. Usually people mean the manifesto, not the part where he bombed people.
That's not a terribly uncommon sentiment. Usually people mean the manifesto, not the part where he bombed people.
A pubnix is a public access *nix-system.
Time to promote the tilde quilt:
https://tilde.club/~lab6/quilt.html
Instructions:
https://tilde.club/wiki/quilt.html
https://tilde.club/~lab6/quilt.html
Instructions:
https://tilde.club/wiki/quilt.html
I ran what you would now call a tilde server back in the 90s.
Then the Secret Service showed up at my door.
Be careful who you share with. Some of them might actually be a unabomber.
Then the Secret Service showed up at my door.
Be careful who you share with. Some of them might actually be a unabomber.
[deleted]
My static tilde page is still there; this will be my canary for community vs. company persistence.
[deleted]
It's rare to see a non-commercial walled garden. But that's what the tildeverse is.
On the contrary, a tilde is a shared cooperative space. A co-op pre-K, a community garden, a maker space.
A walled garden is designed by its owners to keep its users inside -- AOL, Myspace, Facebook.
A walled garden is designed by its owners to keep its users inside -- AOL, Myspace, Facebook.
What are you talking about? How is it ‘walled’?
I've never been able to connect to tilde.chat. I'm connected to literally 20 other IRC networks with no issue. Can you connect?
Most of the Tilde sites allow users to post standard web pages (i.e. using http/https).
Lots of content made by Tildes folks end up in places like Gemini or Gopher which aren't easily accessible. It's walled, but not paywalled nor web signup walled.
I don’t see how this makes any sense at all as a definition of ‘walled’.
There are freely available and free of charge Gemini and Gopher clients for every platform, almost all of which are open source. No signups to any service are required. For that matter, there are Gemini gateways on the web, so you don’t even need to install anything.
If your definition of a ‘walled garden’ is anything that can’t be accessed directly by the web browser Google or Apple pre-installed on your device, I think you might want to reconsider.
There are freely available and free of charge Gemini and Gopher clients for every platform, almost all of which are open source. No signups to any service are required. For that matter, there are Gemini gateways on the web, so you don’t even need to install anything.
If your definition of a ‘walled garden’ is anything that can’t be accessed directly by the web browser Google or Apple pre-installed on your device, I think you might want to reconsider.
> If your definition of a ‘walled garden’ is anything that can’t be accessed directly by the web browser Google or Apple pre-installed on your device, I think you might want to reconsider.
No that's not my definition but also, why would I reconsider? Are you angry at Google or Apple and trying to defend the Tildes or something?
I'm using "walled" in the sense that there's a level of gatekeeping the community does, so builds up walls, to attract a certain kind of person. This kind of person _wants_ to hang out on a shared TUI-based *nix system. That's the wall. Much like a signup wall requires people have logins. That's all.
No that's not my definition but also, why would I reconsider? Are you angry at Google or Apple and trying to defend the Tildes or something?
I'm using "walled" in the sense that there's a level of gatekeeping the community does, so builds up walls, to attract a certain kind of person. This kind of person _wants_ to hang out on a shared TUI-based *nix system. That's the wall. Much like a signup wall requires people have logins. That's all.
Then say 'gatekeeping', and not 'walled'. The two mean different things.
I largely view them as the same. What is 'walled' in your eyes?
My suggestion to reconsider is based on your definition being meaningless. I suspect you hadn’t thought through the implications. Your choice, of course.
Regardless of your definition of “walled”, you seem to simply not know about tildes. There is no need to use a TUI or hang out on a Unix system to view the content.
Regardless of your definition of “walled”, you seem to simply not know about tildes. There is no need to use a TUI or hang out on a Unix system to view the content.
If you have a website that contains user generated content aimed at technical folks what looks nicer (and maybe what are some more options?):
1. GitHub's implicit username: https://github.com/foo
2. Medium's @username: https://medium.com/@foo
3. Old style homedir (eg tildeverse): http://tilde.club/~foo
4. Explicit user folder: https://example.com/users/foo
My preference is not to use implicit usernames since you then would need to filter against a blocklist (something like https://github.com/marteinn/The-Big-Username-Blocklist). Anybody have any opinions?