Ask HN: Anyone considered being phone-free?
I keep coming back to a desire to be phone free. Without digging into the reasons for this, how might one make this transition without losing too much utility? Eg. navigation, emergencies.
46 comments
I am dreaming of the day I can yell “f*ck you!” And throw my phone into the ocean, walk off and never need it again. Live in a little town somewhere, read books, write about stuff. Dress up as a wizard and read the hobbit to children.
If you have a chance to get rid of it and make it work, go for it. We survived before without it, we can do it again. :)
If you have a chance to get rid of it and make it work, go for it. We survived before without it, we can do it again. :)
I don't mean to criticize you, because I have the same dream. You can certainly do that yourself, but your country would still run on phoned-in people--the same way that the hobbits and Tom Bombadil relied on Gondor.
When you say "we survived without it, we can do it again", you're implying that everyone can do it. But "we" still need to solve several major problems:
- National defense
- Fuel
- Power
- Medicine
- Food
- Construction
- Textiles
The "retreat to a small town" hasn't really ever worked as a large-scale model. Small towns in Europe were still backed up by national militaries, as were small towns in the U.S. There has to be some large-scale, militaristically competitive infrastructure in place before a calm, slow existence could return to a meaningful fraction of the population.
When you say "we survived without it, we can do it again", you're implying that everyone can do it. But "we" still need to solve several major problems:
- National defense
- Fuel
- Power
- Medicine
- Food
- Construction
- Textiles
The "retreat to a small town" hasn't really ever worked as a large-scale model. Small towns in Europe were still backed up by national militaries, as were small towns in the U.S. There has to be some large-scale, militaristically competitive infrastructure in place before a calm, slow existence could return to a meaningful fraction of the population.
Perhaps a solution to that is to have everyone serve X number of years in the nation-scale defensive behemoth, and, after they're done, they can retreat to the good life. That's actually how military service is being organized in countries which are at a significant threat (e.g. Israel).
In broader context, we can have everyone say working 20 years in modern, corporate world, so that it does not crumble and we still get to enjoy its benefits, and then retiring to quiet life. It's what people some people with higher salaries are already doing (the FIRE movement), and with more wealth in the economy it would be available to everyone.
In broader context, we can have everyone say working 20 years in modern, corporate world, so that it does not crumble and we still get to enjoy its benefits, and then retiring to quiet life. It's what people some people with higher salaries are already doing (the FIRE movement), and with more wealth in the economy it would be available to everyone.
I have a phone, a soon to be useless, 3g candy bar phone. It serves as a notification and communications channel for me to other humans. It doesn't do email, or internet, it doesn't do images or apps. It does do texts.
If I didn't need to be on call for family or friends, I'd turn it off and only use it when I needed to communicate, but that's not an option for me.
I navigate without it because I'm old and learned to do so well before google was invented, let alone google maps. However, google maps has utility (specifically, real time traffic), so it's likely to be something my next soon to be useless phone might have on it.
I will not ever put Facebook or any other social media on something I carry everywhere, because I would become addicted to it.
As stated elsewhere, separate tools from garbage. You don't have to use this tool in the same manner as others. You can turn it off and pull the battery, and put all that in a ziplock bag inside a tin can if you want.
It's your tool, use it how you want.
If I didn't need to be on call for family or friends, I'd turn it off and only use it when I needed to communicate, but that's not an option for me.
I navigate without it because I'm old and learned to do so well before google was invented, let alone google maps. However, google maps has utility (specifically, real time traffic), so it's likely to be something my next soon to be useless phone might have on it.
I will not ever put Facebook or any other social media on something I carry everywhere, because I would become addicted to it.
As stated elsewhere, separate tools from garbage. You don't have to use this tool in the same manner as others. You can turn it off and pull the battery, and put all that in a ziplock bag inside a tin can if you want.
It's your tool, use it how you want.
I forward skype-in VoIP to wherever or voicemail. Verizon is going to kill my prepaid flip phone in December 2022 so I need to find a new flip phone that can do 4G at least. It's harder now that Walmart and similar stores are a few hours drive away. To be phone free I just power it off.
For navigation I have 2 portable GPS navigation systems. A really old one that I just can't get myself to throw away and a recent Garmin. If that fails I stop and ask for directions and meet new people.
Something you may find useful to reduce the phones attention-seeking behavior is to find a way to disable all sounds on your phone. I don't know if smart phones can do this but my little flip phone can be entirely silent and I can set custom ring tones in the phone book for important numbers. If something is important from a number I don't have they can leave a voicemail.
For navigation I have 2 portable GPS navigation systems. A really old one that I just can't get myself to throw away and a recent Garmin. If that fails I stop and ask for directions and meet new people.
Something you may find useful to reduce the phones attention-seeking behavior is to find a way to disable all sounds on your phone. I don't know if smart phones can do this but my little flip phone can be entirely silent and I can set custom ring tones in the phone book for important numbers. If something is important from a number I don't have they can leave a voicemail.
I have a phone, but use it primarily as a phone (voice + sms) and as a tool (maps, calendar, banking, pagerduty, 2FA).
For entertainment I have Spotify and use Firefox for youtube not often clicking suggested content, and then usually in the same topic as the original--except the physics ones.
Back when I commuted to an office, if I left the house without my phone, I might call one person to let them know I didn't have my phone that day but otherwise not miss it, except for music or reading downloaded text during my commute. Never got into podcasts, couldn't find a series that stayed interesting.
It comes down to habits and what you consider important. Is the virtually presented lives of others or endless funnies important? Act according to your beliefs. I'm not perfect--spend too much time on HN.
For entertainment I have Spotify and use Firefox for youtube not often clicking suggested content, and then usually in the same topic as the original--except the physics ones.
Back when I commuted to an office, if I left the house without my phone, I might call one person to let them know I didn't have my phone that day but otherwise not miss it, except for music or reading downloaded text during my commute. Never got into podcasts, couldn't find a series that stayed interesting.
It comes down to habits and what you consider important. Is the virtually presented lives of others or endless funnies important? Act according to your beliefs. I'm not perfect--spend too much time on HN.
Haven't owned a phone for 4 years, my partner and I use small Baofeng UV-9R+ VHF/UHF handheld radios to coordinate for market runs. AMA :)
Phones are customizable. Just remove everything you don't need.
Just don’t install apps that upset you more than give you value.
You're not waiting for the bus because you don't know what time it comes. You are thinking and watching the people go by.
There are many different reasons to be phone free, like (1) avoid tracking, (2) avoid interruptions, (3) removing big tech from your life, aka. degoogling (4) general dislike of all electronics, etc.
all of this have different consequences and mitigating options, so it would be relevant to know what exactly is that bothers you.
all of this have different consequences and mitigating options, so it would be relevant to know what exactly is that bothers you.
Some of us spent half or more of our lives without cellphones. It's not hard if you plan ahead, buy a map if you're going somewhere new, maybe throw on a watch if you really need to know what time it is. I'm not going to do it, but at worst it's a minor inconvenience.
Having a phone with you that you keep turned off most of the time would be a good way to learn what sort of things you really need it for. Obviously you wouldn't be able to receive incoming calls, but how much do you use your phone to browse the web, or as a map? If you can time-shift those desires (until you are at a computer) or satisfy them with other devices, then you'll be able to go longer and longer without turning the phone on, but still have it for emergencies.
Personally I'd settle for a phone which doesn't connect to the mobile network unless I'm dialling out, or only connects when I'm in certain locations at certain times. Perhaps using a VoIP service and automatically connecting to specific trusted Wi-Fi networks would suffice for that use case, however I've often wondered if it would be possible for a mobile network provider to also operate an FM radio station, which would broadcast a pre-agreed code specific to one of their users whenever that user had an incoming call. I don't know how much battery it would drain for a phone to be constantly scanning FM radio data, though.
Personally I'd settle for a phone which doesn't connect to the mobile network unless I'm dialling out, or only connects when I'm in certain locations at certain times. Perhaps using a VoIP service and automatically connecting to specific trusted Wi-Fi networks would suffice for that use case, however I've often wondered if it would be possible for a mobile network provider to also operate an FM radio station, which would broadcast a pre-agreed code specific to one of their users whenever that user had an incoming call. I don't know how much battery it would drain for a phone to be constantly scanning FM radio data, though.
I have lived 4 years of my adult life phone free. It was quite liberating. I know have a phone because I am working on an iOS app (and I enjoy having a phone as well so far)
But I think I might go back to having no phone next year. I would not define myself as "the guy who has no phone", and I definitely allow myself to change my mind, it's not for tracking or privacy reasons, mostly that sometimes I feel the need to be a lot more creative and explorative than social. Remove a phone from your life can definitely make you see the world differently.
But I think I might go back to having no phone next year. I would not define myself as "the guy who has no phone", and I definitely allow myself to change my mind, it's not for tracking or privacy reasons, mostly that sometimes I feel the need to be a lot more creative and explorative than social. Remove a phone from your life can definitely make you see the world differently.
I have a smartphone without the SIM card installed phone.
When I leave home, I use exercise, clock/alarm, and flashlight apps.
At home I use Google Voice on my laptop for Voice/SMS service.
The level of interruption is quite minimal, especially when I leave home.
At home I use Google Voice on my laptop for Voice/SMS service.
The level of interruption is quite minimal, especially when I leave home.
[deleted]
I survived the first 40 years of my life without a cell phone. Then I carried one phone and smartphone after another, first to keep track of my kids (who have always had phones), then for business and convenience. I have learned how to mute notifications and turn the phone off when I don’t need it. I don’t have it in my bedroom. It’s a tool that I can control, it doesn’t control me. Anyone can take control of their phone without throwing the useful features out.
I'm curious. Do you want to be phone free, pocket computer free, both or something else?
A mobile phone without a SIM card is still useful because you can connect to Wi-Fi when you want and be otherwise offline.
Another halfway measure is just block all incoming calls.
A mobile phone without a SIM card is still useful because you can connect to Wi-Fi when you want and be otherwise offline.
Another halfway measure is just block all incoming calls.
Many phones dont boot without a sim. I dont have pinephone but it looks promising in this regard
Do you know any examples? I've literally never had or even heard of a smartphone refuse to boot up for lacking a sim. I use several of my old phones around the house as security cameras and all of them work fine without sims.
I think it is common (if not a requirement in some jurisdictions) for phones to be able to make emergency calls even if they don't have a SIM card, or don't have credit. In fact, apparently making an emergency call but hanging up before it is connected is a recommended step in some iPhone tech support guides:
https://www.ukeysoft.com/unlock/bypass-iphone-activation-wit...
https://www.ukeysoft.com/unlock/bypass-iphone-activation-wit...
I don't take my cell when I leave the house. You could lose it. For emergencies they can be helpful.
Install a bare minimum of apps. No games. Turn off notifications on all apps except where it is really important. If you must just have visual notifications for preference. Ensure you are completely unaware of it at night. If you take it out keep it zipped up (say in a pencil case).
Had a mobile phone over 30 years.
Had a mobile phone over 30 years.
You could try going step by step. Either leave your phone at home when you go out, or slowly disconnect it from the things you don't like: notifications, emails, instant messaging etc. until you reach what you are after.
Learn to seperate tools from garbage.
Maps is a tool (actually i still like navigation without it).
Social media is a garbage.
all push notifications are garbage.
Messaging is a tool without push notifications.
Banking is a tool.
Most phone games are garbage.
Many apps are garbage because any hint of adult content is banned. And guess what: I’m an adult.
I took me a decade to develop a healthy relationship with my phone and this is my personal insight: It's really good at delivering anything mind numbing, repetitive, low effort. Anything that fits those criterias can bring out the good from the smartphone. Memorization fits this perfectly. Learning vocabulary of a new language with an App like Anki, which tracks and gamifies your progress was a tangible improvement in my life. Anki is like an addictive mobile game to me now. Always a tap away. But the result of the interaction with that addictive app is a positive one. Memorizing, passing exams. If my mind is foggy and in no condition to do anything productive, clicking "mindlessly" in Anki is a time filling, low-effort, yet positive task, with data backing up that I actually am memorizing and recalling new things.
I am not proud of the 4 digit hours I spend in counter strike on steam, but I am in the 3 digit hours I spend doing vocab. Paradoxily I look forward to long waits in the train station or at the doctors office, because I get more time in this positive feedback loop.
I am not proud of the 4 digit hours I spend in counter strike on steam, but I am in the 3 digit hours I spend doing vocab. Paradoxily I look forward to long waits in the train station or at the doctors office, because I get more time in this positive feedback loop.
This.
- remove social media apps, only use via browser, if at all
- deactivate all but the most relevant notifications
- remove all games and other addictive crap
- use daily time-limits for undirected "inspiration" sources like HN
The remaining phone is a tool and still very useful (or useful again).
- remove social media apps, only use via browser, if at all
- deactivate all but the most relevant notifications
- remove all games and other addictive crap
- use daily time-limits for undirected "inspiration" sources like HN
The remaining phone is a tool and still very useful (or useful again).
Concur. Once you get rid of annoying disruptions and bloat a modern magic tile is actually useful and can even be a net positive.
Disable all notifications. Don't publish your phone numbers. Be careful who you give out your contact information to.
Separate channels, e.g: dependants, friends, work1, work2. Mute as needed.
Teach your connections to stop and think before they ping you. Get them to limit it to important stuff. For me this has required several chats which can be uncomfortable to some, so keep it friendly.
Learn Discipline. Just because it sits in your backpack does not mean you have to look at it.
Disable all notifications. Don't publish your phone numbers. Be careful who you give out your contact information to.
Separate channels, e.g: dependants, friends, work1, work2. Mute as needed.
Teach your connections to stop and think before they ping you. Get them to limit it to important stuff. For me this has required several chats which can be uncomfortable to some, so keep it friendly.
Learn Discipline. Just because it sits in your backpack does not mean you have to look at it.
100% agree, from past experience, the phone itself isn't the issue and there are many aspects through which phones are gamechangers compared to c.15 years ago.
Maps + GPS are a great example, but generally any usage through which the phone gives you access to information in the right context (as opposed ti having to look up everything asynchronously from a computer) is invaluable. Being able to read email on the go to find an info (address, meeting time, previous interaction with someone, that time XX mentioned YY in an email, etc.), to check reviews on the quality purchases from the store (e.g. am I buying the right book books), to adapt and find a kid's playground/restaurant/transportation when travelling after having deviated from plans, etc.
It seems to me there is little debate in the fundamental benefits smartphones bring to the table, and what we need to work on is our relationship to the phone: querying it for info when we need it, and not letting it push useless info to us, as well put by the parent comment. Also, under that premise, any sort of entertainment should be avoided (it's just screentime with all it's negatives). Not sure how I'd classify Hacker News :)
Maps + GPS are a great example, but generally any usage through which the phone gives you access to information in the right context (as opposed ti having to look up everything asynchronously from a computer) is invaluable. Being able to read email on the go to find an info (address, meeting time, previous interaction with someone, that time XX mentioned YY in an email, etc.), to check reviews on the quality purchases from the store (e.g. am I buying the right book books), to adapt and find a kid's playground/restaurant/transportation when travelling after having deviated from plans, etc.
It seems to me there is little debate in the fundamental benefits smartphones bring to the table, and what we need to work on is our relationship to the phone: querying it for info when we need it, and not letting it push useless info to us, as well put by the parent comment. Also, under that premise, any sort of entertainment should be avoided (it's just screentime with all it's negatives). Not sure how I'd classify Hacker News :)
> Not sure how I'd classify Hacker News :)
HN is pushing information to us.
You typically don't visit HN to solve a specific problem. Compare to visiting Maps to find a route.
HN is pushing information to us.
You typically don't visit HN to solve a specific problem. Compare to visiting Maps to find a route.
When I get a new phone, I plan to keep my old one for all the “garbage.” And have a clean phone for everyday use, with only the essentials.
Also, I have been training myself to do st least some things phone-free. Such as taking walks or running errands without my phone. It’s crazy how in just a few short years, it feels impossible to leave home without a phone!
Also, I have been training myself to do st least some things phone-free. Such as taking walks or running errands without my phone. It’s crazy how in just a few short years, it feels impossible to leave home without a phone!
I use my phone mainly as a pocket watch; also it has a token generator thing on it which I need for work. The map app is sometimes useful, though I've never been very good at relating the map to the streets around me. I have a couple of news apps, for reading while commuting (not something I do much of ATM).
The key to successful phone usage is, when you get a new phone, don't tell anyone beyond your immediate emergency contact individual your new phone number.
The key to successful phone usage is, when you get a new phone, don't tell anyone beyond your immediate emergency contact individual your new phone number.
I've managed to resist getting a smartphone for as long as possible. This got to be impossible for me at roundabout the year of 2018 with some of the developments in the 2FA space. For example two of my banks now make it impossible to use their online banking unless you have their 2FA apps and I can't log in to my employer's systems without a 2FA app (and you can only get those on the Apple App Store for iOS or Google Play for Android).
The pragmatic solution for me has been to have a smartphone without a SIM card, only connected to WiFi, lying around in my office and not carrying it around with me.
But I fear that the next development is around the corner that will now finally force me to carry a smart phone with me, namely things like Corona checkin apps or restaurants no longer doing printed menus and instead having QR codes at tables for fetching their menus from the web. -- The cost-benefit tradeoff of such developments strikes me as insanely bad, but unfortunately it seems to be where humanity is headed.
The pragmatic solution for me has been to have a smartphone without a SIM card, only connected to WiFi, lying around in my office and not carrying it around with me.
But I fear that the next development is around the corner that will now finally force me to carry a smart phone with me, namely things like Corona checkin apps or restaurants no longer doing printed menus and instead having QR codes at tables for fetching their menus from the web. -- The cost-benefit tradeoff of such developments strikes me as insanely bad, but unfortunately it seems to be where humanity is headed.
> For example two of my banks now make it impossible to use their online banking unless you have their 2FA apps and I can't log in to my employer's systems without a 2FA app (and you can only get those on the Apple App Store for iOS or Google Play for Android).
That should be illegal... The employer at least I suppose you can already request a work phone if they require it. At least I'm pretty sure that's the case here.
Actually, are you sure the banks require their apps though, even if they say they do? Google also says you need its Authenticator for example, but you don't, you can use Authy.
That should be illegal... The employer at least I suppose you can already request a work phone if they require it. At least I'm pretty sure that's the case here.
Actually, are you sure the banks require their apps though, even if they say they do? Google also says you need its Authenticator for example, but you don't, you can use Authy.
I don't now a bank here that supports anything other than their own app. They don't support Linux and refuse to give me a dedicated TAN generator for whatever reason, so my only choice is using the Android app. That forced me to finally leave BB10 OS and buy a new smartphone.
As a result I rarely carry my phone around. I really don't like interacting with the UI, it feels like navigating a website with tons of ad popups and after a decade of using smartphones I still hate virtual keyboards.
As a result I rarely carry my phone around. I really don't like interacting with the UI, it feels like navigating a website with tons of ad popups and after a decade of using smartphones I still hate virtual keyboards.
I use appblock and when I want to take a step back from using my phone too much block everything except for Google Maps, WhatsApp, messaging and the actual phone. It has a strict mode that will prevent you from turning it off, uninstalling it or changing your settings that you can put on a timer. I find a couple of weeks resets the brain so even afterwards I don't use it as much for a few months, although it creeps back.
I did it for a while - because I don't like using a phone for browsing or app-based stuff vs. in browser on my computer, don't like notifications telling me what to do, etc.
After a while I got a 'dumb' phone in case of emergencies.
Navigation is harder, but actually it's nice to navigate London with your head up, remembering things, and realising how two familiar areas you know distinctly are connected, etc. Not to say I never looked up a route before leaving home.
Ultimately it was WhatsApp for family that got me to buy a phone again.
After a while I got a 'dumb' phone in case of emergencies.
Navigation is harder, but actually it's nice to navigate London with your head up, remembering things, and realising how two familiar areas you know distinctly are connected, etc. Not to say I never looked up a route before leaving home.
Ultimately it was WhatsApp for family that got me to buy a phone again.
I cancelled my cell phone contract right at the end of 2013. I haven't paid for a phone service or carried a phone since.
When the original iPad 2 released with a SIM card slot, I happily went phone-free for about two years. I had a messenger bag that allowed me quick access to the iPad (https://www.previousmagazine.com/hex-recon-15-charcoal-messe...).
I no longer use an iPad, in fact I haven't used anything Apple since ~2013 post-Jobs.
These days, phones are increasingly used for multi-factor authentication via apps, and a lot of these don't ship with a tablet version of the app, or they rely on a phone number as well as the app. Unfortunately, I do use an Android phone.
Do I miss being phone-free? Yes. But here's what's changed with how I treat my phone:
All of my social media notifications are completely disabled. I look whenever I feel the urge or I'm doing a marketing campaign.
I no longer use umpteen different comms apps, the cognitive load and battery life was terrible because of it. Instead, I aggregate everything via bridges into my Matrix Synapse server, and access it via Element, meaning all of my devices have one app for all of my comms.
I triage email once every 2h automatically. The exception being that important notifications containing x in the subject line or y in the from field will get my attention on each device, and flash my lights a certain colour until the message is read. (Gmail scripts are cool)
I no longer give out my personal phone number. I only give out SIP numbers, this way I have greater control of who can contact me, and blocking numbers en masse is simple. Android has SIP support baked into the default dialler on most ROMs. This also means I can use my SIP accounts from any device.
Other than a handful of the absolute most essential apps, my smartphone is increasingly like a feature phone, and that's not a bad thing.
I do most of my reading on an Android e-ink device. My eyes thank me for it. For about six months I was using eyedrops to mitigate sore eyes from staring at screens all day, every day, but then realized I had to treat the source.
FWIW, despite having a high-end desktop, most of my day-to-day work, particularly stuff most people would use a phone for, has been replaced by a modded ThinkPad. Swappable batteries are great.
I no longer use an iPad, in fact I haven't used anything Apple since ~2013 post-Jobs.
These days, phones are increasingly used for multi-factor authentication via apps, and a lot of these don't ship with a tablet version of the app, or they rely on a phone number as well as the app. Unfortunately, I do use an Android phone.
Do I miss being phone-free? Yes. But here's what's changed with how I treat my phone:
All of my social media notifications are completely disabled. I look whenever I feel the urge or I'm doing a marketing campaign.
I no longer use umpteen different comms apps, the cognitive load and battery life was terrible because of it. Instead, I aggregate everything via bridges into my Matrix Synapse server, and access it via Element, meaning all of my devices have one app for all of my comms.
I triage email once every 2h automatically. The exception being that important notifications containing x in the subject line or y in the from field will get my attention on each device, and flash my lights a certain colour until the message is read. (Gmail scripts are cool)
I no longer give out my personal phone number. I only give out SIP numbers, this way I have greater control of who can contact me, and blocking numbers en masse is simple. Android has SIP support baked into the default dialler on most ROMs. This also means I can use my SIP accounts from any device.
Other than a handful of the absolute most essential apps, my smartphone is increasingly like a feature phone, and that's not a bad thing.
I do most of my reading on an Android e-ink device. My eyes thank me for it. For about six months I was using eyedrops to mitigate sore eyes from staring at screens all day, every day, but then realized I had to treat the source.
FWIW, despite having a high-end desktop, most of my day-to-day work, particularly stuff most people would use a phone for, has been replaced by a modded ThinkPad. Swappable batteries are great.
I've gone to a halfway house. My smartphone has become a small tablet that never leaves the house and I put the SIM into a Nokia that cost £17 for calls and texts. Composing SMS is painful compared to a smartphone. Other than that I really like leaving internet devices at home, but my wife and friends can still get hold of me. Apart from the occasional snake game, I have no compulsion to pull the Nokia out of my pocket when out. And it only needs charging once or twice a week. It's impractical for most tbh but I find it really helps to shut off. Especially when I've been working on phone apps full time, at those times even looking at a smartphone UI makes me feel sick.
I have a cellular apple watch and usually leave my phone at home.
navigation is an easy one, a physical map is as portable and efficient enough.
re. the rest i feel the most important thing is to develop a solid social infrastructure. e.g. know your neighbors and be on good terms with them. know the places where you can get a hold of your friends if you need to. know your community and actively participate in it. that sort of thing. this is your safety net in case something goes awry.
re. the rest i feel the most important thing is to develop a solid social infrastructure. e.g. know your neighbors and be on good terms with them. know the places where you can get a hold of your friends if you need to. know your community and actively participate in it. that sort of thing. this is your safety net in case something goes awry.
I've considered doing this and keeping a device like a LTE smartwatch or maybe one of those pinephones.
Every once in a while I look around to see if there is something that seems like it would reasonably work, I haven't really found it yet. Maybe in the near future though.
Every once in a while I look around to see if there is something that seems like it would reasonably work, I haven't really found it yet. Maybe in the near future though.
I switched to using a cellular apple watch.
It's been great. However, I still need to use a phone during work hours
It's been great. However, I still need to use a phone during work hours