Russia bans coupon payments to foreigners holding ruble bonds(reuters.com)
reuters.com
Russia bans coupon payments to foreigners holding ruble bonds
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russia-bans-coupon-payments-foreigners-holding-rouble-bonds-2022-03-02/
48 comments
to me it seems that it's not such an unpopular war in Russia, mostly because of propaganda on TV, but still, not enough people are against Putin.
Yes seems like most Russians support this “operation” to “free” Ukrainian people from their nazi government :(
War is looking pretty popular here too, because of propaganda on TV.
What about Internet sources? Are Russian people living in a bubble?
Only 5% of population speak at least one foreign language. You can call it a bubble.
I just don't get it. What's stopping a hundred truckers to blockade Kremlin, with the help of opposition parties?
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30526769.
That didn't work in Canada, a supposedly liberal democracy. Trudeau enacted emergency powers and seized peoples bank accounts, what do you imagine Putin would do?
These truckers just illegally parked for several weeks, made a bit of noise, and some of them accosted passers-by.
I watched some aftermath footage of the vacated streets of Ottawa, the day after they were cleared out. There was no sign of any damage. Not a broken window or anything. I didn't see garbage on the ground. The commentators of the news clips I watched, though decidedly biased against the protesters, didn't remark upon anything like that.
I watched some aftermath footage of the vacated streets of Ottawa, the day after they were cleared out. There was no sign of any damage. Not a broken window or anything. I didn't see garbage on the ground. The commentators of the news clips I watched, though decidedly biased against the protesters, didn't remark upon anything like that.
Bank accounts in Russia are already lost. And Russians can regain their accounts by ousting Putin and cronies.
> a supposedly liberal democracy
Note that while I oppose the seizing of people‘s bank accounts by Trudeau with every fibre of my body, this whataboutism is easily defused:
Using these kind of soft power moves (basically doing things in the non-meat space) is precisely why Canada is still a liberal democracy.
Even if you became the state‘s enemy #1, the worst that happens is… your bank account is temporarily disabled, overtly (not a clandestine operation, so you can challenge it legally, protest it, etc).
This is completely different from Russia, where you just… disappear (ie you get killed).
Note that while I oppose the seizing of people‘s bank accounts by Trudeau with every fibre of my body, this whataboutism is easily defused:
Using these kind of soft power moves (basically doing things in the non-meat space) is precisely why Canada is still a liberal democracy.
Even if you became the state‘s enemy #1, the worst that happens is… your bank account is temporarily disabled, overtly (not a clandestine operation, so you can challenge it legally, protest it, etc).
This is completely different from Russia, where you just… disappear (ie you get killed).
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There are no opposition parties in Russia. On the topic of the war the main sentiment is "We can do it again" (Можем повторить).
When prominent leader of "opposition" Navalny was asked about returning Crimea to Ukraine after Putin, answer was "It is not a sandwich to pass it back and forth".
When prominent leader of "opposition" Navalny was asked about returning Crimea to Ukraine after Putin, answer was "It is not a sandwich to pass it back and forth".
We are not in Canada Toto. Poland under Russian occupation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacification_of_Wujek
"On December 16, three days after the introduction of the martial law in Poland, pro-Solidarity miners striking against the declaration of the martial law by General Wojciech Jaruzelski were dispersed by the troops of the Polish army and police. The forces used in the main thrust against the miners consisted of eight companies of riot police (ZOMO, supported by ORMO (police reservists) and NOMO) with seven water cannons, three companies of military infantry fighting vehicles (each of 10 vehicles) and one company of tanks. The miners repeatedly fought them off with their tools. During the brawl a number of strikers and 41 troops were injured, including 11 severely.
In the apex of the events, a commando-type special platoon of ZOMO opened the "shoot to kill" fire at the strikers, killing nine of them (Jan Stawisiński, Joachim Gnida, Józef Czekalski, Krzysztof Giza, Ryszard Gzik, Bogusław Kopczak, Andrzej Pełka, Zbigniew Wilk and Zenon Zając) and wounding 21 others. "
another one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Polish_protests
"The protests were sparked by a sudden increase in the prices of food and other everyday items. Strikes were put down by the Polish People's Army and the Citizen's Militia, resulting in at least 44 people killed and more than 1,000 wounded."
"On December 16, three days after the introduction of the martial law in Poland, pro-Solidarity miners striking against the declaration of the martial law by General Wojciech Jaruzelski were dispersed by the troops of the Polish army and police. The forces used in the main thrust against the miners consisted of eight companies of riot police (ZOMO, supported by ORMO (police reservists) and NOMO) with seven water cannons, three companies of military infantry fighting vehicles (each of 10 vehicles) and one company of tanks. The miners repeatedly fought them off with their tools. During the brawl a number of strikers and 41 troops were injured, including 11 severely.
In the apex of the events, a commando-type special platoon of ZOMO opened the "shoot to kill" fire at the strikers, killing nine of them (Jan Stawisiński, Joachim Gnida, Józef Czekalski, Krzysztof Giza, Ryszard Gzik, Bogusław Kopczak, Andrzej Pełka, Zbigniew Wilk and Zenon Zając) and wounding 21 others. "
another one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Polish_protests
"The protests were sparked by a sudden increase in the prices of food and other everyday items. Strikes were put down by the Polish People's Army and the Citizen's Militia, resulting in at least 44 people killed and more than 1,000 wounded."
The secret service even killed a priest:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Popie%C5%82uszko
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Popie%C5%82uszko
But you are not uneducated peasants from the past either. Seize control of your own country - not by peaceful convoy protest but by blockading Kremlin and escalating violence until Putin and cronies are sent to gulags.
Pretty much ALL major developed western countries went through such revolutions to earn their freedom. It is time for you to go get it.
Pretty much ALL major developed western countries went through such revolutions to earn their freedom. It is time for you to go get it.
> Pretty much ALL major developed western country went through such revolutions to earn their freedom. It is time for you to go get it.
You realise that you're asking innocent people to risk violence and potentially even give up their lives, to protest an invasion by a despot that they had little opportunity to oppose right? It's pretty easy to take credit for the bravery and fortitude that your predecessors had to bring about their revolutions from the comfort of your first-world home at little to no risk to yourself.
Honestly, this seems like the most out of touch call to action that I've ever heard. Also, it only starts to feel even more hypocritical when you realise that there have been several anti-war protests going on in Russia, for which the participants faced brutal violence at the hands of the state.
You realise that you're asking innocent people to risk violence and potentially even give up their lives, to protest an invasion by a despot that they had little opportunity to oppose right? It's pretty easy to take credit for the bravery and fortitude that your predecessors had to bring about their revolutions from the comfort of your first-world home at little to no risk to yourself.
Honestly, this seems like the most out of touch call to action that I've ever heard. Also, it only starts to feel even more hypocritical when you realise that there have been several anti-war protests going on in Russia, for which the participants faced brutal violence at the hands of the state.
> You realise that you're asking innocent people to risk violence and potentially even give up their lives, to protest an invasion by a despot that they had little opportunity to oppose right? It's pretty easy to take credit for the bravery and fortitude that your predecessors had to bring about their revolutions from the comfort of your first-world home at little to no risk to yourself.
The difference between Russia and Ukraine is exactly this. Ukrainians fought for their country in 2014 - called a coup in Russian media. https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt...
It was deadly, the consequences are felt even today. But they are proud of their land, they love their leader. Their country is theirs and they were willing to oust the ruling class to secure their own country.
Honestly, enough with the justifications. The cushy western life didn't come easy.
The difference between Russia and Ukraine is exactly this. Ukrainians fought for their country in 2014 - called a coup in Russian media. https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt...
It was deadly, the consequences are felt even today. But they are proud of their land, they love their leader. Their country is theirs and they were willing to oust the ruling class to secure their own country.
Honestly, enough with the justifications. The cushy western life didn't come easy.
You are barking up a tree that is about 1250 km away from the one that you want to bark at.
People get the government they deserve.
When Russians got fed up in ‘91, they knew what to do.
When Russians got fed up in ‘91, they knew what to do.
> People get the government they deserve
You've clearly never lived outside of a cozy democracy. Also, this is incredibly contemptuous.
You've clearly never lived outside of a cozy democracy. Also, this is incredibly contemptuous.
I've lived outside of a cozy democracy. When its regime tried to go full authoritarian in 2013/2014, my countrymen got their Molotov cocktails ready.
"People get the government they deserve" is spot on. I'd also like to add that every single person pays the price for the actions of their government, regardless whether they choose to care who rules them or choose to disregard it (which is an equally conscious choice with equal consequences).
"People get the government they deserve" is spot on. I'd also like to add that every single person pays the price for the actions of their government, regardless whether they choose to care who rules them or choose to disregard it (which is an equally conscious choice with equal consequences).
Molotov cocktails? Seriously? Yeah, you go try that in the streets of Moscow and see how it goes...
It goes like this (based on experience in Kyiv): first Police burns, than they shoot back, than you shoot back until there is no police left. Then elections.
Because he’d be alone. If 300,000 Moscovites stood shoulder to shoulder, there would be a different outcome. They don’t, therefore they get Putin.
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Even in a cozy democracy sometimes it can be frustrating when a candidate you didn’t vote for pushes for say a war on terror because of WMD that turn out not to exist.
Sometimes, even in a cozy democracy, both parties jointly support giving trillions in bailouts to pay bonuses to bankers and rating agencies who defrauded the public for years.
Even in a cozy democracy, I don’t think it is fair to hold the entire population accountable for the decisions of a tiny elite.
Sometimes, even in a cozy democracy, both parties jointly support giving trillions in bailouts to pay bonuses to bankers and rating agencies who defrauded the public for years.
Even in a cozy democracy, I don’t think it is fair to hold the entire population accountable for the decisions of a tiny elite.
Marcos, Ceaușescu, and Mubarak are a few names that come to mind.
And, again, the Russians themselves proved this in 1991.
And, again, the Russians themselves proved this in 1991.
But russia is a democracy though. The problem with living in a "cozy democracy" is that you are brainwashed far worse than those living in "authoritarian" countries like russia, china, etc.
Have you ever considered that most russians, chinese, etc support their governments? Do you think when most russians hear NATO is expanding into ukraine, they're celebrating? Do you think everytime we antagonize china with taiwan, the chinese population celebrates it?
What's incredibly contemptuous is the idea that russians, chinese, iranians, etc don't have any agency. On average, I'd say russians, chinese, iranians, etc are better educated, smarter and politically aware than the brainwashed masses in a "cozy democracy" - whatever that means.
Have you ever considered that most russians, chinese, etc support their governments? Do you think when most russians hear NATO is expanding into ukraine, they're celebrating? Do you think everytime we antagonize china with taiwan, the chinese population celebrates it?
What's incredibly contemptuous is the idea that russians, chinese, iranians, etc don't have any agency. On average, I'd say russians, chinese, iranians, etc are better educated, smarter and politically aware than the brainwashed masses in a "cozy democracy" - whatever that means.
> But russia is a democracy though.
Democracies don't jail the opposition party leaders.
Democracies don't jail the opposition party leaders.
Russia is proof that democracies do. Your own argument disproves your response.
Democracies jail opposition, democracies commit genocide, democracies censor newspapers, democracies enslave people, democracies invade and overthrow other democracies, democracies attack and harass journalists, etc.
Not sure where you got the notion that democracies are perfect.
Democracies jail opposition, democracies commit genocide, democracies censor newspapers, democracies enslave people, democracies invade and overthrow other democracies, democracies attack and harass journalists, etc.
Not sure where you got the notion that democracies are perfect.
Right, democracy is not nearly enough. It's more important to have a culture which values civil liberty—this is where Russia fails.
Democracy has a lower bound. That lower bound is not sham elections.
Otherwise we might as well welcome North Korea amongst the democracies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_North_Korea
Otherwise we might as well welcome North Korea amongst the democracies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_North_Korea
> But russia is a democracy though.
Citation needed.
Citation needed.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30526769.
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And what about north koreans? Do they "deserve" it too?
> People get the government they deserve.
That only applies to liberal democracies. We have a choice on a regular and recurring basis.
That only applies to liberal democracies. We have a choice on a regular and recurring basis.
From the POV of outside of Russia… this is Russia defaulting on its sovereign debts, no?
From the POV of people in Russia suspending access to international reserves is the West defaulting on its sovereign debt. Those were liabilities owned and owed to the Russians.
The West expects to get away with it, why not Russia?
And of course with all this defaulting on liabilities going on, those other countries in debt to the West are looking on to see what happens.
The answer will be less than most fear. As is usual in these situations the fear is a greater behaviour control than the reality.
The West expects to get away with it, why not Russia?
And of course with all this defaulting on liabilities going on, those other countries in debt to the West are looking on to see what happens.
The answer will be less than most fear. As is usual in these situations the fear is a greater behaviour control than the reality.
> The West expects to get away with it, why not Russia?
One of these two so casually mentioned in the same sentence is literally bombing civilians.
If bombing civilians will not stop you from defending a murderous regime with whataboutisms, what will?
One of these two so casually mentioned in the same sentence is literally bombing civilians.
If bombing civilians will not stop you from defending a murderous regime with whataboutisms, what will?
So do Americans, that argument doesn’t hold water.
What if I’m not American, why bring them up? The government of Rwanda also killed civilians. Does that excuse the Russians?
I would be upset indeed if I lost my job not because of anything I did but because of an unpopular war on the other side of the country started by a dictator