Regrets of the Dying (2010)(bronnieware.com)
bronnieware.com
Regrets of the Dying (2010)
https://bronnieware.com/blog/regrets-of-the-dying/
150 comments
If only it were that easy.
Life goals and dreams are hard because of their innate complexity to achieve them. It's easy to state "I want to start a family" or "I want to become a business owner" or "I want to climb Everest". It's the execution which is hard because that relies on so many variables most of which you don't really control.
Social background, economic background, your health, your personality, your skills and abilities, your awareness of opportunities or lack thereof, ingrained beliefs and biases, education level, culture, current events, family dynamics, upbringing,...
The notion that you're in control of what happens in your life is a convenient belief, not a hard fact. It's only when that belief is shattered by hard reality that you start to understand that life doesn't necessarily follow the script you had in mind when you're young.
The kicker then is understanding that happiness isn't to be found only when you reach the end of the rainbow, when you finally achieve the dream. It's there along the road, between the rubble and troubles that life throws at you. It's found in what you make out of each day you're given in good health.
Life goals and dreams are hard because of their innate complexity to achieve them. It's easy to state "I want to start a family" or "I want to become a business owner" or "I want to climb Everest". It's the execution which is hard because that relies on so many variables most of which you don't really control.
Social background, economic background, your health, your personality, your skills and abilities, your awareness of opportunities or lack thereof, ingrained beliefs and biases, education level, culture, current events, family dynamics, upbringing,...
The notion that you're in control of what happens in your life is a convenient belief, not a hard fact. It's only when that belief is shattered by hard reality that you start to understand that life doesn't necessarily follow the script you had in mind when you're young.
The kicker then is understanding that happiness isn't to be found only when you reach the end of the rainbow, when you finally achieve the dream. It's there along the road, between the rubble and troubles that life throws at you. It's found in what you make out of each day you're given in good health.
You still have some amount of control.
As a 30-something, it has recently become apparent to me that it is very easy to live a life you don't really care about. You start a job because it's the thing people expect you to do with your degree, chase some promotions because it feels nice to improve your status and win more money and without really paying attention you end up doing a job you rescent to keep living a life you dislike.
As a 30-something, it has recently become apparent to me that it is very easy to live a life you don't really care about. You start a job because it's the thing people expect you to do with your degree, chase some promotions because it feels nice to improve your status and win more money and without really paying attention you end up doing a job you rescent to keep living a life you dislike.
> You start a job because it's the thing people expect you to do with your degree
I obtained a job so that I could start a family and keep food on the table. I guess what you’re saying would make sense if you already had a retirement-level amount of money to begin with at age 18.
I obtained a job so that I could start a family and keep food on the table. I guess what you’re saying would make sense if you already had a retirement-level amount of money to begin with at age 18.
While I agree that there are a lot of factors we don't control, we can put that into perspective for evaluating how feasible a "life goal" is.
There's a culture that pushes us to "dream big" (e.g. build a unicorn startup, become a billionaire). That's usually awfully ambitious, and as feasible as winning the lottery for most of us.
We should be pragmatic about our life goals. They should be ambitious, but achieavable.
Even if we don't control a lot of factors in our lives we at least have the power to influence them, most of the time it comes in the form of "trade-offs". So you've got to be prepared to make some sacrifices in the present for making progress towards a future goal.
I also acknowledge that some of us have a head start due to our social/economical background, and we should be grateful for that.
There's a culture that pushes us to "dream big" (e.g. build a unicorn startup, become a billionaire). That's usually awfully ambitious, and as feasible as winning the lottery for most of us.
We should be pragmatic about our life goals. They should be ambitious, but achieavable.
Even if we don't control a lot of factors in our lives we at least have the power to influence them, most of the time it comes in the form of "trade-offs". So you've got to be prepared to make some sacrifices in the present for making progress towards a future goal.
I also acknowledge that some of us have a head start due to our social/economical background, and we should be grateful for that.
I have been listening to the ancients and have become suspect of ambition.
It is not like if you see ambition as something less than a moral good you will no longer get anything done. You will just turn off this useless modeling of future events in your head.
I suspect in our culture, ambition causes nothing but useless pain and is counter productive at the average as people model their future life up to these highly improbable lottery winning situations.
Climbing Mount Everest is really the best metaphor. Massive risk for basically no reward. The whole idea is objectively stupid but seen as some great accomplishment in our culture.
It is not like if you see ambition as something less than a moral good you will no longer get anything done. You will just turn off this useless modeling of future events in your head.
I suspect in our culture, ambition causes nothing but useless pain and is counter productive at the average as people model their future life up to these highly improbable lottery winning situations.
Climbing Mount Everest is really the best metaphor. Massive risk for basically no reward. The whole idea is objectively stupid but seen as some great accomplishment in our culture.
It's a choice. If that makes you happy then follow it.
Let's face facts. If our ancestors never had any ambition we would still be hunter-gatherers. We would probably have the same level of happiness and sadness since we would never know anything different. Flowing through life is a choice that works for some.
Let's face facts. If our ancestors never had any ambition we would still be hunter-gatherers. We would probably have the same level of happiness and sadness since we would never know anything different. Flowing through life is a choice that works for some.
True, it's not easy. But if you never start and try, I guarantee that it's even more unlikely to happen.
It's said that it's the journey not the goal so make the journey fun. If there are ever a set of people that can figure out how to solve a problem, HN has them. So,figure out how to solve your dream problem.
True, doing nothing is so much easier but I don't recommend it since you won't like the result.
It's said that it's the journey not the goal so make the journey fun. If there are ever a set of people that can figure out how to solve a problem, HN has them. So,figure out how to solve your dream problem.
True, doing nothing is so much easier but I don't recommend it since you won't like the result.
I'm young and that's probably the reason why I'm less cynical. Hurdles can't be a reason not to run the race. For me it's like project management: you're 100% sure that nothing is going to go according to the plan, and that you'll end up far from the target, but still, planning is better than not planning. And adapting the plan along the way is best.
Absolutely! There's value in planning for your life and at least trying to act on your plan. Even so, learning when and how to adapt or abandon your plans, well, that's an art form which takes a lifetime to perfect.
Then there are things in life you can't really prepare yourself for because they are, well, life altering. For instance, when you marry, there's only so much you can do to prepare for the probability of losing your partner through death and divorce. The practicalities, such as notary's and testaments, are fairly trivial to deal with. Living through the experience and confronting yourself with reality as it happens? That's a wholly different ball game.
Then there are things in life you can't really prepare yourself for because they are, well, life altering. For instance, when you marry, there's only so much you can do to prepare for the probability of losing your partner through death and divorce. The practicalities, such as notary's and testaments, are fairly trivial to deal with. Living through the experience and confronting yourself with reality as it happens? That's a wholly different ball game.
There's a school of thought among physicists/philosophers called "eternalism" (also goes by "block universe") that posits that all the future is already "laid out," so to speak, and that free will is an illusion. The idea is that the current state of the universe (and mind in our case) dictates the next state (deterministic or stochastic) and we really have to control over the process. Many physicists subscribe to this view (Albert Einstein is supposed to have been a proponent), and I'm increasingly becoming a believer myself. The upshot is that we should never regret/second-guess the past or worry about the future because we really have no control.
That paints a veneer of effortlessness over everything that I don't much care for. Sure, we could in theory trace back our every impulse to some preceding energy or interaction, but it doesn't much help in the moment when you're trying to push hard to get done that last mile of your run. Even if the universe already knows if you're going to fail or not by the end of the run doesn't mean you do nor should you accept the easy result in the moment.
The universe knew you were going to think that and push yourself hard for the last mile
Of course, if we really have no control then we also can't control whether we regret the past or worry about the future, so why bother telling anyone that they should not do it?
But of course you had no control over whether you would tell anyone that, so I shouldn't question your decision.
The whole notion of 'should' is absurd under such a philosophy.
But of course you had no control over whether you would tell anyone that, so I shouldn't question your decision.
The whole notion of 'should' is absurd under such a philosophy.
There's also determinism. I know that when I kick a ball it will go on a direction I want. Not always but most of the time and the more I do it the better I get. If it's an illusion, thats ok. I will live with it the rest of my life. It works for me.
Oops, should have written free-will not determinism.
The future has zero mass, thus has zero energy, thus most likely doesn't exist yet. It's a really long gamble to say that it does.
Can't the same argument be made about the past? The measurement of mass and energy is very much a measure of the present.
You can't control the hand youre dealt.
You control how you play the hand
And you control at how you take joy in the game.
You control how you play the hand
And you control at how you take joy in the game.
I don't think unrealistic dreams have to lead to regrets. I have a dream home, and I don't think I'll ever build it, and that's fine. I like occasionally thinking of my dream home, it makes me happy, and I don't need to actually have it become a real home.
Since it's just a dream, I don't have to worry about where to build it, or if the things I dream about are practical, and I don't have to worry about any trade-offs, since it's just a dream.
Even if I had a million dollars, and I could afford to build it, who knows if it would even work? There's a reason why real life houses don't look like my dream home, and I assume it's because of some things that I'm not thinking about when fantasising about my dream house.
So, I'm perfectly happy with having unfulfilled dreams.
Since it's just a dream, I don't have to worry about where to build it, or if the things I dream about are practical, and I don't have to worry about any trade-offs, since it's just a dream.
Even if I had a million dollars, and I could afford to build it, who knows if it would even work? There's a reason why real life houses don't look like my dream home, and I assume it's because of some things that I'm not thinking about when fantasising about my dream house.
So, I'm perfectly happy with having unfulfilled dreams.
You're aware that one of the most common regrets in the article is to have laboured too much? Not sure if thats your intention bit it really reads like in the face of that youre reaction is "work(labour) harder" to get fullfillment.
>People should note that having dreams without figuring out how to get them accomplished is a sure way to have regrets.
Disagree. My dream is to revolutionize my field of science. This is practically unattainable, but that doesn't I'll regret being a scientist and solving smaller problems.
I.e. It's not the destination, but the road traveled.
Disagree. My dream is to revolutionize my field of science. This is practically unattainable, but that doesn't I'll regret being a scientist and solving smaller problems.
I.e. It's not the destination, but the road traveled.
I buy lottery tickets because it's fun (for me) to pretend that I will win. It's playing as in "lets pretend" and "dressing up". I know that it's 1:14,000,000 against and I know how big a 1,000,000 is.
Dreaming in the longer run is good, and goals can provide meaning and structure in what is essentially a meaningless and chaotic world. Living in the moment is also good, playing is good.
Dreaming in the longer run is good, and goals can provide meaning and structure in what is essentially a meaningless and chaotic world. Living in the moment is also good, playing is good.
> I buy lottery tickets because it's fun (for me) to pretend that I will win.
Can't you pretend you will win without buying the tickets?
Can't you pretend you will win without buying the tickets?
[deleted]
I can pretend I'm shooting monsters in my head too, but it's more enjoyable when playing Doom. Though admittedly this metaphor would probably have a sudden drop in happiness the closer to real it got.
Well, sure. But in one case you have a chance of winning (although vanishingly small), and in the other you don’t. So it’s much less entertaining.
You could find a winning lottery ticket, so without buying you do still have an (even smaller) chance. While one is sufficiently likely that it'll happen to someone and the other probably won't ever, neither will happen to you.
I think the bigger difference is probably the prop and the immediacy of the experience.
I think the bigger difference is probably the prop and the immediacy of the experience.
Yes.
Sure, but you can also direct all that time, money and energy towards something much more rewarding, with real and very probable chances of succeeding, instead of string of little failures to win for rest of your life.
For example I have a long term dream of being self-sufficient paraglider, Icarus dream and all that. I live in a country where its hard to have full course (2 weeks minimum) unless you speak fluent french, which I don't yet. I have 2 tiny little small kids. I have had some recent injuries which delay/block similar efforts. But I didn't give up, waited patiently till suddenly I had a window for the course. Did it, and now looking for spring to continue the momentum, whenever family situation allows it.
Some other activities would be much easier (and cheaper) to get into. But somehow I knew and felt that this will be very rewarding for me, combining hiking up and flying down the mountains.
I don't call them dreams - those are rather impossible situations like me free floating on ISS looking a dark space around Earth, stars, moon and milky way. Or winning lottery. Goals is much better term for me, there are clear actionable steps to get there. Compared to this dream, paragliding is peanuts to achieve.
For example I have a long term dream of being self-sufficient paraglider, Icarus dream and all that. I live in a country where its hard to have full course (2 weeks minimum) unless you speak fluent french, which I don't yet. I have 2 tiny little small kids. I have had some recent injuries which delay/block similar efforts. But I didn't give up, waited patiently till suddenly I had a window for the course. Did it, and now looking for spring to continue the momentum, whenever family situation allows it.
Some other activities would be much easier (and cheaper) to get into. But somehow I knew and felt that this will be very rewarding for me, combining hiking up and flying down the mountains.
I don't call them dreams - those are rather impossible situations like me free floating on ISS looking a dark space around Earth, stars, moon and milky way. Or winning lottery. Goals is much better term for me, there are clear actionable steps to get there. Compared to this dream, paragliding is peanuts to achieve.
> Sure, but you can also direct all that time, money and energy towards something much more rewarding
It takes 0.1 units of time and energy to buy a lottery ticket, you just add one to your things at checkout. Sure, you could put that $1 per week towards your investment portfolio but hey, maybe?
It becomes an issue when people are addicted to it or are harboring false hopes and spend considerable money on lotteries, but as OP was describing, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
It takes 0.1 units of time and energy to buy a lottery ticket, you just add one to your things at checkout. Sure, you could put that $1 per week towards your investment portfolio but hey, maybe?
It becomes an issue when people are addicted to it or are harboring false hopes and spend considerable money on lotteries, but as OP was describing, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
I buy lottery tickets because I like the privilege of not being poor enough for the purchase to be a tax on me, lottery tickets are often called a tax on the stupid or a tax on the poor, both are said. why not just entertainment?
so I just like to think “l.o.l, privilege” when I buy
one of the $595 hourly rates from cpa and legal beats my lottery ticket purchases any year, shrug
I’ve traded options with a greater negative expected value than powerball
so I just like to think “l.o.l, privilege” when I buy
one of the $595 hourly rates from cpa and legal beats my lottery ticket purchases any year, shrug
I’ve traded options with a greater negative expected value than powerball
I buy lottery tickets when the prize is really large. My four best friends and I will chip in and we'll buy a few tickets. Then we'll spend the next week or two on our whatsapp group having fun about what dumb s*t each one will do with the money, what kinds of pranks we'll be able to lay on each other, etc. It's lots of fun and for about ten bucks, it's money very well spent. It wouldn't be this fun if we were just pretending to have bought tickets.
I believe that majority of people don't have a dream.
I disagree.
I believe a majority of people have a dream. Source: my decades in higher education working with families and students - literally everyone has a dream about their future.
What they don't have is a plan.
I believe a majority of people have a dream. Source: my decades in higher education working with families and students - literally everyone has a dream about their future.
What they don't have is a plan.
Well, for one thing, most people don't go through higher education.
Also, I did a Bs+Ms in CS and never had a plan along the way. I just wanted to have fun before I have to go work at some job that I'm probably not going to be too happy about. I'd say majority of people I studied with were like that.
Also, I did a Bs+Ms in CS and never had a plan along the way. I just wanted to have fun before I have to go work at some job that I'm probably not going to be too happy about. I'd say majority of people I studied with were like that.
or support/supportive people around them - at best.
Instead, there are a lot of people who dont want to see others do better than them. From personal experience, directly & indirectly, some of the closest people that we are taught to trust are the very people who shut those dreams down, or at the very least, give support as long as it doesnt help raise anyone 'above' themselves. How many accept that and regret it at the end of life when those people have long since disappeared. Stepping outsides the norms of ones social bubble/society is far more risky than conforming to ones 'place' in the pecking order.
Instead, there are a lot of people who dont want to see others do better than them. From personal experience, directly & indirectly, some of the closest people that we are taught to trust are the very people who shut those dreams down, or at the very least, give support as long as it doesnt help raise anyone 'above' themselves. How many accept that and regret it at the end of life when those people have long since disappeared. Stepping outsides the norms of ones social bubble/society is far more risky than conforming to ones 'place' in the pecking order.
Actively still has a dream, or had a dream when they were in higher education?
I would say actively have a dream. I'm talking about the parents of students and prospective students as well as parents and family of kids who had no intention of going into higher education at all.
All of the parents, once you got them to open up, had dreams about how their life would/could turn out.
Very few ever had a plan on how to make that, but more of a hopeful 'one day' sort of attitude.
All of the parents, once you got them to open up, had dreams about how their life would/could turn out.
Very few ever had a plan on how to make that, but more of a hopeful 'one day' sort of attitude.
> So keep in mind that most dreams are achievable you just have to work towards them by setting up a life plan.
No, no they aren't, especially if you haven't already won the birth lottery. We're coming in an era of decreasing social mobility, where the majority will drown in poverty.
No, no they aren't, especially if you haven't already won the birth lottery. We're coming in an era of decreasing social mobility, where the majority will drown in poverty.
Have capital
Dont not have capital
Dont not have capital
Why you should give up on your dreams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ZnfCmTJMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ZnfCmTJMY
That one is really good.
Related:
The Top of My Todo List (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28238124 - Aug 2021 (18 comments)
Top five regrets of the dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9689907 - June 2015 (5 comments)
The Top Of My Todo List - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3872613 - April 2012 (185 comments)
Regrets of the Dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3646379 - Feb 2012 (4 comments)
Top five regrets of the dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3542280 - Feb 2012 (1 comment)
Top Five Regrets of the Dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3331535 - Dec 2011 (1 comment)
Top 5 Regrets People Make on their Deathbed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2615886 - June 2011 (51 comments)
Regrets of the Dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1643239 - Aug 2010 (90 comments)
The Top of My Todo List (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28238124 - Aug 2021 (18 comments)
Top five regrets of the dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9689907 - June 2015 (5 comments)
The Top Of My Todo List - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3872613 - April 2012 (185 comments)
Regrets of the Dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3646379 - Feb 2012 (4 comments)
Top five regrets of the dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3542280 - Feb 2012 (1 comment)
Top Five Regrets of the Dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3331535 - Dec 2011 (1 comment)
Top 5 Regrets People Make on their Deathbed - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2615886 - June 2011 (51 comments)
Regrets of the Dying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1643239 - Aug 2010 (90 comments)
These are good but it's important to keep it in perspective. You might not need to optimize every day between now and then for what you think you're going to regret then. People who aren't dying have different needs, like paying rent next month.
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The million dollars question here is, if they had a chance to go back and do things differently, would that make them have no regrets on their dying bed, or they'd just end up with a different set of regrets?
My grandfathers dying regrets (expressed to me) were that he had bought the wrong sort of kitchen units.
I guess that there are always going to be regrets.
I guess that there are always going to be regrets.
Do people really have regrets?
I've seen my parents and my grandmother dying. Mostly they were weak, anxious, miserable and suffering. Nobody mentioned any thing they regretted. My grandmother kept telling me her life went so fast, that I should enjoy mine and do whatever made me happy. She sounded more nostalgic of her youth than regretting any past actions.
I think we like to make up stories, trying to find some drive, but if you don't believe in afterlife, life is pointless anyway.
I've seen my parents and my grandmother dying. Mostly they were weak, anxious, miserable and suffering. Nobody mentioned any thing they regretted. My grandmother kept telling me her life went so fast, that I should enjoy mine and do whatever made me happy. She sounded more nostalgic of her youth than regretting any past actions.
I think we like to make up stories, trying to find some drive, but if you don't believe in afterlife, life is pointless anyway.
Thinking about the regrets listed in the article. Pick this one:
"I wish I had not worked so hard."
What if this person went back in time and didn't work so hard? Are you suggesting they would, in their twilight years, express regret for not having worked harder? Perhaps regret they did not have the means to buy more stuff or travel?
Because nothing like that made the top 5 from the author's anecdotal evidence.
We have to assume either then that people rarely regret not working enough (or that the majority of us work too much and so never have the opposite regret, ha ha).
"I wish I had not worked so hard."
What if this person went back in time and didn't work so hard? Are you suggesting they would, in their twilight years, express regret for not having worked harder? Perhaps regret they did not have the means to buy more stuff or travel?
Because nothing like that made the top 5 from the author's anecdotal evidence.
We have to assume either then that people rarely regret not working enough (or that the majority of us work too much and so never have the opposite regret, ha ha).
Maybe those people didn't make it into the book because instead of dying in palliative care, they died under bridges or gutters or something.
I totally can see myself regretting one day on dropping out of University. Not that I ever needed the degree really, but just for the feeling of closing what you've started.
Same with sport, I was pretty good at some point, preparing for a state competition in swimming, but fell in love and dropped out of trainings (and she dumped me some 6 months later). If I worked harder back then perhaps I'd now have a medal on my wall to boost my ego with. There're literally millions of such events in everyones' lives, some small, some big, some more important and some less, and it's just a question if you'll go back to them one day or leave them be...
Same with sport, I was pretty good at some point, preparing for a state competition in swimming, but fell in love and dropped out of trainings (and she dumped me some 6 months later). If I worked harder back then perhaps I'd now have a medal on my wall to boost my ego with. There're literally millions of such events in everyones' lives, some small, some big, some more important and some less, and it's just a question if you'll go back to them one day or leave them be...
Bingo.
I had a bit of a "what am I doing with my life" crisis a few years back when I felt addicted to working, and I made the changes to live a calmer, more enjoyable life at the expense of some income. Will I now regret not leaving more money for my daughter/wife when I go?
We're all stumbling through life to the same conclusion. No one gets to do everything they wanted to.
I had a bit of a "what am I doing with my life" crisis a few years back when I felt addicted to working, and I made the changes to live a calmer, more enjoyable life at the expense of some income. Will I now regret not leaving more money for my daughter/wife when I go?
We're all stumbling through life to the same conclusion. No one gets to do everything they wanted to.
I get your point about different sets of regrets, but I really doubt anyone on their deathbed regrets not leaving behind more money. In this case I think you made the right call from a deathbed regrets perspective, trading money for a more enjoyable life.
Really? I guess it likely depends on what age they die at. If you're a 40-year-old guy with a wife and 2 teenagers, and you are dying from cancer, your family is probably going to be left in a much more precarious situation financially if you don't have a large life insurance policy, or a large amount of savings, than if you were a 75-year-old guy who dies with two adult-children, a paid-off house, car, and a wife that receives social security benefits. If you are the 40-year-old, I think you'd be feeling pretty lousy about leaving your family to fend for itself without your financial help going forward. If you're the latter, you know everything is as stable as can be.
The movie "About Time (2013)" shows a nice answer to this question. I enjoyed it a lot, so I highly recommend it
[deleted]
Asked the right question. We don't know what choices would have lead to global optimal point even at the end of life. It is possible there are multiple global optimal points. At least this serves as a motivation for anti aging.
Mortality is something I have been greatly struggling with lately, and I am neither sick nor old. But it's just tough to grapple with. By all accounts, life and this universe makes no damn sense, and for the most part, attempts to understand it are futile. We carve out little things that are interesting, but that's about it. And all that is ignoring the fatal flaws of humanity.
What's interesting is that I already share most of these regrets, and I am not dying, at least in the traditional sense since we are all dying. I think for the most part, all one can do in life is to just do. Be yourself but stop worrying about what yourself is. Treat any done project, not matter how small, as a good project. Look for little successes like that. And the older I get, the more I realize that relationships matter.
What's interesting is that I already share most of these regrets, and I am not dying, at least in the traditional sense since we are all dying. I think for the most part, all one can do in life is to just do. Be yourself but stop worrying about what yourself is. Treat any done project, not matter how small, as a good project. Look for little successes like that. And the older I get, the more I realize that relationships matter.
Life only has meaning when viewed through the collective: our purpose is to help others, make great things and self actualise (learn, develop).
Life isn’t about me or you, it’s about us.
Make plans that go beyond your lifetime - with the intention of “handing off” to a suitable person, or at least leaving a description of what you’d like to see next so that someone else can pick that up.
There are so many problems to solve, ideas to explore, others to help, people to inspire. The really difficulty lies in choosing one thing to work on at a time.
> Make plans that go beyond your lifetime
If you cannot find a meaning in one lifetime, adding a finite number of (other people’s) lifetimes will still be meaningless. (It can make the ending of your own less relevant but I’d say that’s a different issue.)
If you cannot find a meaning in one lifetime, adding a finite number of (other people’s) lifetimes will still be meaningless. (It can make the ending of your own less relevant but I’d say that’s a different issue.)
No, it won’t still be meaningless; it is not a different issue, and that’s exactly the point.
I think grasping this is a fundamental step towards escaping a very egocentric view of life.
I think grasping this is a fundamental step towards escaping a very egocentric view of life.
Even if by “escaping a very egocentric view of life” you mean that one’s life is meaningless but other people’s lives are not you don’t need to go “beyond your lifetime”.
If whatever you can do for today’s people is not enough to have a “meaning” how is doing things for future people different in that respect?
(Again, there is a practical difference in delaying the meaning beyond the time of death. It’s a common trait in religions for a reason, I guess.)
If whatever you can do for today’s people is not enough to have a “meaning” how is doing things for future people different in that respect?
(Again, there is a practical difference in delaying the meaning beyond the time of death. It’s a common trait in religions for a reason, I guess.)
Going beyond your lifetime is a useful mental exercise for those that trapped in an egocentric viewpoint.
Realising that the world will continue to turn when we’re not there - just as it was turning before us - is definitely a good exercise.
Whether this idea helps to find a meaning in life or not is debatable. If imaginary people from the distant future can give meaning to one’s life also should actual people from the present/near future, at least to some extent. Otherwise we’re fooling ourselves until the end.
Whether this idea helps to find a meaning in life or not is debatable. If imaginary people from the distant future can give meaning to one’s life also should actual people from the present/near future, at least to some extent. Otherwise we’re fooling ourselves until the end.
> Life only has meaning when viewed through the collective...
This may be true for ants. But I've never seen how this can be an absolute truth for humans for two reasons:
1. If one life is truly meaningless (0), how does multiplying it produce meaning (0 * 8 billion = 0)?
2. If you found yourself to be the last person on the planet, would you A) realize you have no meaning and die, B) create art and put a little more beauty into the universe? Given those choices, does option A or B have more inherent "meaning"?
This may be true for ants. But I've never seen how this can be an absolute truth for humans for two reasons:
1. If one life is truly meaningless (0), how does multiplying it produce meaning (0 * 8 billion = 0)?
2. If you found yourself to be the last person on the planet, would you A) realize you have no meaning and die, B) create art and put a little more beauty into the universe? Given those choices, does option A or B have more inherent "meaning"?
In hypothetical (2) I’d spend my time working towards the best collective outcome. The most obvious way to do so would be to explain how I ended up there and how it might have been avoided, and other points of wisdom gained from the experience. I’d record those in the best way possible for the benefit of other people or beings.
As for (1): obviously yes it does produce meaning. Otherwise I wouldn’t have said it. I don’t know why meaning should obey the formula you give.
'Denial of Death' by Ernest Becker really helped me make sense of our own mortality. Can't recommend it highly enough.
I want to read that book someday. If you liked the book, you will also like Mr Becker's podcast with Lex Fridman. Can you give a summary of the book? Thanks a bunch!
Ernest Becker died like 50 years ago -- how did he do a podcast with Lex Fridman? :)
My apologies. I meant Sheldon Solomon's podcast, where they talk about Ernest Becker.
> I wish that I had let myself be happier.
I see this as a call to mindfulness. A lot of adult life is spent sacrificing the current self for the benefit of the future self. For a lot of everyday activities like brushing teeth or walking to work we never really think about it, we just use it to think about what's going to happen later on.
Sorry for being wishy-washy, but we have to confront that we are living right now, and we ought to enjoy what we are doing right now! Not in the sense that we should live like there's no tomorrow -- but that we should enjoy the today we are getting.
I see this as a call to mindfulness. A lot of adult life is spent sacrificing the current self for the benefit of the future self. For a lot of everyday activities like brushing teeth or walking to work we never really think about it, we just use it to think about what's going to happen later on.
Sorry for being wishy-washy, but we have to confront that we are living right now, and we ought to enjoy what we are doing right now! Not in the sense that we should live like there's no tomorrow -- but that we should enjoy the today we are getting.
> enjoy the today we are getting.
insert spongebob meme where he points out all the hidden diapers have you watched the news lately?
insert spongebob meme where he points out all the hidden diapers have you watched the news lately?
Realistically, there is not much impact us little humans can have. The options are to donate to humanitarian organizations working there, vote for a government that's going to intervene, or volunteer as a soldier. I'm not eligible to vote, I would never be a capable soldier, but I did donate.
The idea is that even if terrible things are happening, and you are anxious for what's next, you have to look in front of you, and see what you can do different right now. To a large extent this conflict is outside our hands, and we should prepare accordingly.
My plea to you is to please donate to the red cross in Ukraine :)
The idea is that even if terrible things are happening, and you are anxious for what's next, you have to look in front of you, and see what you can do different right now. To a large extent this conflict is outside our hands, and we should prepare accordingly.
My plea to you is to please donate to the red cross in Ukraine :)
First step: stop watching the news! It’s designed to make you stressed and angry and unhappy.
Most of the time, yeah. But sometimes there are legitimate reasons to be stressed and angry and unhappy.
Stop watching the news, and maybe when you should be angry, you won't be too exhausted to do something with that anger. Anger without action is wasted emotion.
Stop watching the news, and maybe when you should be angry, you won't be too exhausted to do something with that anger. Anger without action is wasted emotion.
Does regret on deathbed matter that much? We live 30000 days NOT on our deathbed, and 1 day on our deathbed. Even if that 1 day is horrible, as long as the 30000 days are good, it should be fine, right? Just because it's the last day doesn't make it more important than the other days.
My theory is that these regrets eat you from the inside anyways. So the deathbed event is not a hallucination of sorts, but it happens because the dying lets go of their everyday worries and other such things, so their real motivations and inclinations crop up. And if they haven't acted on them, to a level that would be satisfying to them, then it leads to regret. As if they haven't lived their lives true to themselves. Which begs the question of the point of living too, of course. To which I have no clear answer.
Similar lines of thinking have made me curious about nihilism
Life is what you make of it. If you go around thinking nothing fucking matters because we're all dead anyway, then it won't, and your life choices will affect what the rest of your brief existence on Earth will be like.
Definitely a good topic to research and ponder about.
This is exactly my take on this (and I am family-oriented, religious guy). Majority of people will be “dying” between few weeks up to few monts, while they will be living 70-80 years. Shaping your 70 years of life so that you don’t feel (other people’s) regrets during your final few months seems stupid to me.
Haha. Assuming this isn't sarcastic—I would assume that (1) sentiments on the last day are probably similar to many of the days before it, and (2) you should weight the wisdom of those days higher than days early in life, because they have more experience.
If that was sarcastic... you got me.
If that was sarcastic... you got me.
It was not sarcastic. I meant it. I believe that every day is equally valuable.
Life is not an optimization problem, where we maximize happiness. I prefer to just let life flow in its natural waves, sometimes correcting course to achieve my goals.
Life is not an optimization problem, where we maximize happiness. I prefer to just let life flow in its natural waves, sometimes correcting course to achieve my goals.
Even if we wanted to maximise happiness in life, that's still very different from minimising ostensible regrets when dying.
as Morrissey said, paraphrasing Sinatra:
Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too many to mention…..
I think ones goal should be to live an optimal life, integrating good over time.
Reviewing the wisdom of those who have done more than us (lived long and are facing death) seems smart.
While I don't want to live my life in fear of regret, I often use a mental model for decisions - "if this is wrong how much would I regret it," to weigh the choices.
I personally don't want to be on my deathbed and say I wish after 35 I had spent more time with my loved ones - I want to be able to say that I spent a good amount of time with my loved ones and enjoyed it.
Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too many to mention…..
I think ones goal should be to live an optimal life, integrating good over time.
Reviewing the wisdom of those who have done more than us (lived long and are facing death) seems smart.
While I don't want to live my life in fear of regret, I often use a mental model for decisions - "if this is wrong how much would I regret it," to weigh the choices.
I personally don't want to be on my deathbed and say I wish after 35 I had spent more time with my loved ones - I want to be able to say that I spent a good amount of time with my loved ones and enjoyed it.
Robin Hanson expressed some doubts about this list back in 2010: https://www.overcomingbias.com/2010/11/deathbed-regret-is-fa...
I don't find his arguments any good. Basically "my wife is also a nurse and she haven't heard many" and "they're no good anyway".
> Ms. Ware said regrets are expressed “when questioned about any regrets they had or anything they would do differently”; my wife isn’t thrilled about this as a care technique.
Or:
> Deathbed folks are usually far from their analytical peak – they are often in great pain, and rather muddle-headed. So why would we think their comments especially insightful?
It also gets comically reductionistic:
> Added 9a: Stephen Smith suggests these regrets are the predictable result of opiate pain medication.
But I think it's more about the author trying to force his opinion, when it's not really needed, insightful, or that useful.
> Ms. Ware said regrets are expressed “when questioned about any regrets they had or anything they would do differently”; my wife isn’t thrilled about this as a care technique.
Or:
> Deathbed folks are usually far from their analytical peak – they are often in great pain, and rather muddle-headed. So why would we think their comments especially insightful?
It also gets comically reductionistic:
> Added 9a: Stephen Smith suggests these regrets are the predictable result of opiate pain medication.
But I think it's more about the author trying to force his opinion, when it's not really needed, insightful, or that useful.
I think "my wife is a hospice worker who has provided care to over 5000 patients and hasn't heard these regrets" is a pretty decent argument. I'm not saying Hanson is right, but I wouldn't dismiss his wife's experience.
I am not a hospice worker, but I have heard more than one old person say #2 and #4 - that they were busy working and did not get to see their kids growing up as much as they wanted, and they wish they had not lost touch with old, good friends. Not sure why she did not hear this from the thousands of older people she worked with in hospice care, I have certainly heard it.
>is a pretty decent argument
Well, did she fish for them? The author states that she disagrees about asking such things, so isn't the answer no?
(And, beyond asking: is she the type people would trust with such things, or e.g. does she come of as more cold, etc? There can be many factors).
Well, did she fish for them? The author states that she disagrees about asking such things, so isn't the answer no?
(And, beyond asking: is she the type people would trust with such things, or e.g. does she come of as more cold, etc? There can be many factors).
>
1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.
I learned this in my 20s. My horrible family tired to back me into staying in LA. Realizing none of them actually cared about me, I just estranged myself and left.
No one cares about you as much as you'll care about yourself. Do what ever you want, as long as your not breaking any laws, go for it. I phrase it that way since a shitty family member or partner will claim your "hurting" them emotionally when you don't do what they want.
It's somewhat hard to cut people off, but it's ether that or live a shitty life dictated by others.
> I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.
This is somewhat hard when you move, but newsflash. Your friends will end up moving too, getting married, etc. All things which will make hanging out harder. As much as hate on Facebook here, messenger has been invaluable in this aspect.
I still talk to people I met in highschool and college.
I learned this in my 20s. My horrible family tired to back me into staying in LA. Realizing none of them actually cared about me, I just estranged myself and left.
No one cares about you as much as you'll care about yourself. Do what ever you want, as long as your not breaking any laws, go for it. I phrase it that way since a shitty family member or partner will claim your "hurting" them emotionally when you don't do what they want.
It's somewhat hard to cut people off, but it's ether that or live a shitty life dictated by others.
> I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.
This is somewhat hard when you move, but newsflash. Your friends will end up moving too, getting married, etc. All things which will make hanging out harder. As much as hate on Facebook here, messenger has been invaluable in this aspect.
I still talk to people I met in highschool and college.
The framework I use to make important life decisions is a simple one.
On my deathbed, which choice will I wish that I would have made?
Surprisingly, it's almost always the one which feels uncomfortable and with the most unknowns. It turns out, anecdotally, that it's not that uncomfortable and you can learn things pretty easily.
On my deathbed, which choice will I wish that I would have made?
Surprisingly, it's almost always the one which feels uncomfortable and with the most unknowns. It turns out, anecdotally, that it's not that uncomfortable and you can learn things pretty easily.
Vague: I think you're going to need at least one example.
My wife and I would like to move to another city. We have a 9 and 11 year old that we would be pulling out of their current school.
Making the move is daunting because we worry our kids will struggle to make new friends and we don't know that we'll love the area like we think we might (plus, we don't dislike our current city).
The safe thing to do is to stay put. There's little risk and we know what to expect. But I believe that we will have wished we would have made the move when looking back 20 years from now.
Making the move is daunting because we worry our kids will struggle to make new friends and we don't know that we'll love the area like we think we might (plus, we don't dislike our current city).
The safe thing to do is to stay put. There's little risk and we know what to expect. But I believe that we will have wished we would have made the move when looking back 20 years from now.
I really hate when people are talking about these, it's like a big FOMO of YOLO, and is often used for telling (sometimes selling) you what to do in indirect forcing way. Lots of people won't have chances or conditions that let them do what you tell them to do. There should be another way to encourage people to improve their quality of life without saying they will regret if they don't have chances.
Regret works very well for me actually.
FOMO is such a strange "word". I'm not quite sure why it has such a negative connotation.
Fear of missing out on ... some 70's-band reunion concert? Yeah, that's vapid.
Fear of missing out on ... a life worth having lived. For many of us that sort of is the point of life. No shame in trying to find out what that is.
FOMO is such a strange "word". I'm not quite sure why it has such a negative connotation.
Fear of missing out on ... some 70's-band reunion concert? Yeah, that's vapid.
Fear of missing out on ... a life worth having lived. For many of us that sort of is the point of life. No shame in trying to find out what that is.
Fear "word" is generally negative. Even more negative when someone else puts it on someone and makes them miserable .. "If I can do, you can do too" is more ok-ish (despite of slightly cliche) than "you should do this and that otherwise when you die you will die miserably)
The point about regretting not spending more time with family makes me really sad. Slaving away in a high pressure cooperate job is a sure way to miss out on what’s really important.
The timing is horrible, ins't it?
I decided to try and leverage my life as a corporate cog and retire as early as I thought I could (age 57), but it is too late with regard to raising my daughters. They've all flown the nest.
I did try the best I could to give them, I think, more than my parent(s) gave me when I was growing up.
I decided to try and leverage my life as a corporate cog and retire as early as I thought I could (age 57), but it is too late with regard to raising my daughters. They've all flown the nest.
I did try the best I could to give them, I think, more than my parent(s) gave me when I was growing up.
You've got the best years still available with your daughters now though. Plan trips with them, plan experiences. I'm 37 and I go and visit my aging parents as much as I can, adding up that collective time together.
My dad is 76, I wish he was 57. I'd ask him to go camping or on a road trip. I should still do that now probably, it's just hard to shake the realities of aging.
My dad is 76, I wish he was 57. I'd ask him to go camping or on a road trip. I should still do that now probably, it's just hard to shake the realities of aging.
Especially when you consider how little you’ll see them once they move out. 90% of the time you’ll spend with your kids will happen before they are 18.
I'll make it worse: actually before they start middle school (junior high).
When mine were young, I read to them every night before bed and they seemed to really enjoy it. We worked through, believe it or not, The Lord of the Rings, Uncle Remus stories, the Harry Potter series, The Hobbit, most of the Andrew Lang Fairie books, etc.
But once they got past age 12, school got "real", smart phones landed in their hands and fairyland faded away.
When mine were young, I read to them every night before bed and they seemed to really enjoy it. We worked through, believe it or not, The Lord of the Rings, Uncle Remus stories, the Harry Potter series, The Hobbit, most of the Andrew Lang Fairie books, etc.
But once they got past age 12, school got "real", smart phones landed in their hands and fairyland faded away.
Fuel on the fire, life is painful and unfair. :(
I don’t necessarily trust the provenance of the regrets, but I do find that the regrets listed do invoke some thought about my life and the future, and so I appreciate it!
"I wish I had watched more TV"
What are the regrets of the newborn?
Who gets a place in an Australian palliative station?
What are the regrets of a dying San or Yanomami?
Did those excptionally lucky people that died in that Australian palliative station all regret something? What were they proud of? Who were they? What did they wished for and when? What do they wish for after they're gone?
Did they wished to do back then, what they regretted not to have done before they died?
Where is the data and statistics, beside book sales? And I would also love to know who bought them.
Who gets a place in an Australian palliative station?
What are the regrets of a dying San or Yanomami?
Did those excptionally lucky people that died in that Australian palliative station all regret something? What were they proud of? Who were they? What did they wished for and when? What do they wish for after they're gone?
Did they wished to do back then, what they regretted not to have done before they died?
Where is the data and statistics, beside book sales? And I would also love to know who bought them.
I'm old by any measure and yes, there were plenty of things that could have gone better and a few that are still cringe-worthy even after seven decades. But I'm not that person any more. I have experiences and insights that "me" hadn't earned yet, often the hard way. I'm glad this process continues to reveal and inform even this late in the game and would certainly "regret" if it ceased before I did...
Funny story I read this in 2015 and in the following years I completely changed my life. I came out, changed my relationships, moved, switched jobs, totally altered the pattern of my sleep and work, started eating differently, going to the grocery store with 'candy' on the list.
Every year since 2015 was the best year of my life so far. 2022 is shaping up to be an absolute delight.
Every year since 2015 was the best year of my life so far. 2022 is shaping up to be an absolute delight.
Let me share what I thought when I knew that I could legitimately die.
I was 21. Save some extra fat on my tummy and a very common kind of infection in my nose, I was very fit and healthy.
I was struck by a very rare disease and the doctor asked my family for 72 hours before he could tell whether or not I will live.
I spent much of the time under painkillers, intubated, and some tranquilizers. But I did not lose my mind. I was perfectly sane.
I realized and decided some things. The experience also bought many changes in me.
1. Scores, test, class rank are worth shit. Abandoning group activities and going to places that I would enjoy for preparing better for tests was a huge mistake. I made a decision that I would never do that for stuff meaningless for me.
2. There is no need to tolerate people's drama. You don't owe anyone shit.
3. Connections with people matter. The people you care about, you should invest time and effort to make those connections deeper. On the other hand, no need to tolerate people just for the sake societal reasons. Just cut people off who make you unhappy and does not contribute positively to your life.
4. Pets rock. For me, pet means dog. I decided to keep at least one dog whenever it would be logistically possible. I have kept the promise I made to myself.
5. A deep life is a good life. I wanted to be deeply knowledgeable and good in things rather than hopping among many.
6. Helping people is one of the best feelings. I keep doing that.
7. Being nice to people is another. I always was more empathetic than others, less judgemental. But my experience with death has made me more so.
8. I was big on rationality and I remain the same. But I have learned that going beyond logic is essential for one's growth as a human being. (This is the opposite of faith and ignoring logic). I was and remained an athiest. But I started to look into lives of people that I could love and feel devotion towards. The two people were Buddha and Sri Chaitanya. I continue discussing them, studying them, and knowing more about them. Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem, Turing's Halting problem has helped push me in this direction. Note that I am still an uber-skeptic and don't believe in religions or spirit or god or ghosts or whatever.
9. I started deeply focusing on what I want. The proverbial "people" can go do themselves.
10. The cause of disease is still undiagnosed. There is not enough research. I still learned to value my health.
11. I don't know why, but my experience has made me calmer. I take decisions more promptly, and in a well-thought out manner.
12. My sense of gratitude have increased five-fold. I understand and acknowledge my good fortunes. I complain much less.
13. I put more value on gaining physical, sensational pleasures. I used to feel guilty, but I don't anymore.
14. My capacity to love has increased. I am a bigger man, now.
15. I took months, gently, to recognize who I truly am. I have a much better picture of who I am.
The experience when you legitimately do not know whether you are going to live is unmatched. It has no parallels.
My "advice" would be:
1. Focus on personal connections. Work towards deepening them.
2. Don't tolerate assholes. But don't judge them either.
3. Help people.
4. Focus on what you want rather than what is wanted of you. Invest time and effort in knowing yourself.
5. Lead a deep life.
I was 21. Save some extra fat on my tummy and a very common kind of infection in my nose, I was very fit and healthy.
I was struck by a very rare disease and the doctor asked my family for 72 hours before he could tell whether or not I will live.
I spent much of the time under painkillers, intubated, and some tranquilizers. But I did not lose my mind. I was perfectly sane.
I realized and decided some things. The experience also bought many changes in me.
1. Scores, test, class rank are worth shit. Abandoning group activities and going to places that I would enjoy for preparing better for tests was a huge mistake. I made a decision that I would never do that for stuff meaningless for me.
2. There is no need to tolerate people's drama. You don't owe anyone shit.
3. Connections with people matter. The people you care about, you should invest time and effort to make those connections deeper. On the other hand, no need to tolerate people just for the sake societal reasons. Just cut people off who make you unhappy and does not contribute positively to your life.
4. Pets rock. For me, pet means dog. I decided to keep at least one dog whenever it would be logistically possible. I have kept the promise I made to myself.
5. A deep life is a good life. I wanted to be deeply knowledgeable and good in things rather than hopping among many.
6. Helping people is one of the best feelings. I keep doing that.
7. Being nice to people is another. I always was more empathetic than others, less judgemental. But my experience with death has made me more so.
8. I was big on rationality and I remain the same. But I have learned that going beyond logic is essential for one's growth as a human being. (This is the opposite of faith and ignoring logic). I was and remained an athiest. But I started to look into lives of people that I could love and feel devotion towards. The two people were Buddha and Sri Chaitanya. I continue discussing them, studying them, and knowing more about them. Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem, Turing's Halting problem has helped push me in this direction. Note that I am still an uber-skeptic and don't believe in religions or spirit or god or ghosts or whatever.
9. I started deeply focusing on what I want. The proverbial "people" can go do themselves.
10. The cause of disease is still undiagnosed. There is not enough research. I still learned to value my health.
11. I don't know why, but my experience has made me calmer. I take decisions more promptly, and in a well-thought out manner.
12. My sense of gratitude have increased five-fold. I understand and acknowledge my good fortunes. I complain much less.
13. I put more value on gaining physical, sensational pleasures. I used to feel guilty, but I don't anymore.
14. My capacity to love has increased. I am a bigger man, now.
15. I took months, gently, to recognize who I truly am. I have a much better picture of who I am.
The experience when you legitimately do not know whether you are going to live is unmatched. It has no parallels.
My "advice" would be:
1. Focus on personal connections. Work towards deepening them.
2. Don't tolerate assholes. But don't judge them either.
3. Help people.
4. Focus on what you want rather than what is wanted of you. Invest time and effort in knowing yourself.
5. Lead a deep life.
I wish it wasn't made under a throwaway, as I'd love to read more of your thoughts!
I don't write that much personal stuff.
And I am not some sage or ascetic. Not remotely.
I enjoy drinks, chicken, and mild flirting.
Anyway, do you have any particular question or want to know about a particular view?
And I am not some sage or ascetic. Not remotely.
I enjoy drinks, chicken, and mild flirting.
Anyway, do you have any particular question or want to know about a particular view?
Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply.
> Anyway, do you have any particular question or want to know about a particular view?
I do: how did you find what you truly want to focus on? You hinted that you took months and invested time and effort into knowing yourself. But how did you do that exactly?
What did you decide to go deep into?
And how long ago was that? I ask because if enough time has elapsed, I wonder if you have decided to revisit part of your past life - like places or people, whether to give them a second look or to provide catharsis/solace/closure/anything else.
> Anyway, do you have any particular question or want to know about a particular view?
I do: how did you find what you truly want to focus on? You hinted that you took months and invested time and effort into knowing yourself. But how did you do that exactly?
What did you decide to go deep into?
And how long ago was that? I ask because if enough time has elapsed, I wonder if you have decided to revisit part of your past life - like places or people, whether to give them a second look or to provide catharsis/solace/closure/anything else.
> how did you find what you truly want to focus on?
I realized many things beforehand, but did not have the proper wording often. After coming out of the hospital, I read many books, and found that others have realized what I realized.
This was a months long process. I don't think I can fit it into a comment.
My connections with my parents, pet, and girlfriend deepened a lot. And a lot of people came to visit me that I thought did not want to have anything to do with me. It felt better to have people caring about you.
They were not close, and they still aren't.
I reached nihilism through science. There is nothing in anything, and I know it. And there is meaning in only those things that we deliberately _assign_ meaning to. The latter part became clear after I survived my disease.
I came home just barely before the pandemic started. I read a lot of books, exercised at a gym very close by (doctor prescribed gym), and lived a simple life- learn new things (an advanced Discrete Math MOOC) during the day, talk with gf over phone, watch The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel during the evening, eat, masturbate, and sleep. It was very simple. I had amazing focus and clarity. I tried reading devotional books for a while (published by ISKCON), but disagreed with a lot, and abandoned it. But I liked their purity, their kindled devotion. That stayed with me in a good way. God is imaginary, but people's devotion towards it is very real.
I rediscovered Buddha through a historical novel. Read the Dhammapada.
I was a Physics honours student, but grew frustrated with it because the education system cared only about memorization of types of numeric problems, derivation, etc. I liked working with my hands very much. As much as I loved mental gymnastic, esoterica, or more. I spent 20-25 hours a week in the college Electronics lab.
One close friend suggested that I look into Data Science. I started MOOCs, courses, etc. Due to COVID, a lot of the paid stuff were made free and everything shifted to online. That was great for me.
I soon moved to Deep Learning. I always had a good mathematical foundation. And DL made sense very quickly. I did MOOCs, learned the Math, and before graduating college, I found employment in Deep Learning. I did DL work from day one. This was also my first employment.
I read more Buddhist texts, other books (a lot of books came from HN lists). GEB made a deep mark in my life.
You could approach work one of two ways- your work is how you pay your bills so that you can live your real life- after work. Or your work can be a central theme in your life. You can find this theme in Gordon's "Mastery".
I now live to make a serious contribution to human knowledge about the nature, about consciousness. I might fail badly. But I will try.
That's not only why I live. The more important part is to be a loving boyfriend / husband, son, dad, etc. Humans in our lives are important. And also dogs ;)
I genuinely enjoy learning new things. Improving human faculties in me. I read interesting non-fiction, learn new languages (both human and computer ones), talk with very diverse people, and struggle with the piano.
The thing I decided to go deep into are math, programming, deep learning, Buddhism, Bengali poetry, and culture. I spend a lot of my afternoons reading Bengali poetry written between 900 AD - 1800s AD.
I am in, by no means, a perfect situation. I still have too many interests to go deep into any. I will have to be better in prioritizing.
I am currently practising meditation. Using the book The Mind Illuminated and also Mindfulness in Plain English. I am striving towards the goal of annihilation of self and I already knew Anatta (no-soul doctrine). I am getting to know it better, discover it more.
"Annihilation of self" is not negative. You should must read "What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula if you are remotely interested in Buddhism. This book explains the Buddha's direct teachings only.
The goal, to me, is to absolutely improve my human quality and faculties, so whatever needs doing, whatever I want to do- I am ready to do it. This is my focus on the "work" side.
When I came back home, I factually knew that I was recovering, but my mind felt, for at least two months- that I was dying. That gave me an enormous, unmatched focus, concentration, and clarity- I now haven't regained yet. Maybe focusing to one thing only is a key element?
Thank you for asking me. Writing these felt good.
In what I wrote, there are several gaps. If you want any to be filled, please ask.
I am 23 now. Currently a DL Research Engineer and also a Master's student in CS.
I knew that humans are not more than very complex biological machines. But what do with that knowledge, I did not know. Buddhism (strictly Theraveda- no voodoo, faith, magic, or "trust") is teaching me that.
What to do if there is no "I"? I am getting to know more and more.
And as I said, I am no sage or even seem weird to others. Not that I care- but unneeded friction is despised by me.
In a party, you will find me donning a black silk shirt and a black suit with a drink talking with attractive women.
Good day!
I realized many things beforehand, but did not have the proper wording often. After coming out of the hospital, I read many books, and found that others have realized what I realized.
This was a months long process. I don't think I can fit it into a comment.
My connections with my parents, pet, and girlfriend deepened a lot. And a lot of people came to visit me that I thought did not want to have anything to do with me. It felt better to have people caring about you.
They were not close, and they still aren't.
I reached nihilism through science. There is nothing in anything, and I know it. And there is meaning in only those things that we deliberately _assign_ meaning to. The latter part became clear after I survived my disease.
I came home just barely before the pandemic started. I read a lot of books, exercised at a gym very close by (doctor prescribed gym), and lived a simple life- learn new things (an advanced Discrete Math MOOC) during the day, talk with gf over phone, watch The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel during the evening, eat, masturbate, and sleep. It was very simple. I had amazing focus and clarity. I tried reading devotional books for a while (published by ISKCON), but disagreed with a lot, and abandoned it. But I liked their purity, their kindled devotion. That stayed with me in a good way. God is imaginary, but people's devotion towards it is very real.
I rediscovered Buddha through a historical novel. Read the Dhammapada.
I was a Physics honours student, but grew frustrated with it because the education system cared only about memorization of types of numeric problems, derivation, etc. I liked working with my hands very much. As much as I loved mental gymnastic, esoterica, or more. I spent 20-25 hours a week in the college Electronics lab.
One close friend suggested that I look into Data Science. I started MOOCs, courses, etc. Due to COVID, a lot of the paid stuff were made free and everything shifted to online. That was great for me.
I soon moved to Deep Learning. I always had a good mathematical foundation. And DL made sense very quickly. I did MOOCs, learned the Math, and before graduating college, I found employment in Deep Learning. I did DL work from day one. This was also my first employment.
I read more Buddhist texts, other books (a lot of books came from HN lists). GEB made a deep mark in my life.
You could approach work one of two ways- your work is how you pay your bills so that you can live your real life- after work. Or your work can be a central theme in your life. You can find this theme in Gordon's "Mastery".
I now live to make a serious contribution to human knowledge about the nature, about consciousness. I might fail badly. But I will try.
That's not only why I live. The more important part is to be a loving boyfriend / husband, son, dad, etc. Humans in our lives are important. And also dogs ;)
I genuinely enjoy learning new things. Improving human faculties in me. I read interesting non-fiction, learn new languages (both human and computer ones), talk with very diverse people, and struggle with the piano.
The thing I decided to go deep into are math, programming, deep learning, Buddhism, Bengali poetry, and culture. I spend a lot of my afternoons reading Bengali poetry written between 900 AD - 1800s AD.
I am in, by no means, a perfect situation. I still have too many interests to go deep into any. I will have to be better in prioritizing.
I am currently practising meditation. Using the book The Mind Illuminated and also Mindfulness in Plain English. I am striving towards the goal of annihilation of self and I already knew Anatta (no-soul doctrine). I am getting to know it better, discover it more.
"Annihilation of self" is not negative. You should must read "What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula if you are remotely interested in Buddhism. This book explains the Buddha's direct teachings only.
The goal, to me, is to absolutely improve my human quality and faculties, so whatever needs doing, whatever I want to do- I am ready to do it. This is my focus on the "work" side.
When I came back home, I factually knew that I was recovering, but my mind felt, for at least two months- that I was dying. That gave me an enormous, unmatched focus, concentration, and clarity- I now haven't regained yet. Maybe focusing to one thing only is a key element?
Thank you for asking me. Writing these felt good.
In what I wrote, there are several gaps. If you want any to be filled, please ask.
I am 23 now. Currently a DL Research Engineer and also a Master's student in CS.
I knew that humans are not more than very complex biological machines. But what do with that knowledge, I did not know. Buddhism (strictly Theraveda- no voodoo, faith, magic, or "trust") is teaching me that.
What to do if there is no "I"? I am getting to know more and more.
And as I said, I am no sage or even seem weird to others. Not that I care- but unneeded friction is despised by me.
In a party, you will find me donning a black silk shirt and a black suit with a drink talking with attractive women.
Good day!
Thanks a lot for these precisions. They bring the details I asked, yet also make me wonder more how I could follow your example.
I have so many other questions to ask you - like where your interest for Buddhism came from, where were you born and in which culture (and if not Bengal, how come you are interested in Bengali poetry?), how you find your interest and the things worth pursuing with our limited time...
Yet I don't want to you bother you too much.
> I am striving towards the goal of annihilation of self and I already knew Anatta (no-soul doctrine).
I discovered Buddhism in a manga about the life of Buddha (seriously). Like you, I've had a brush with death that was transformative at the time, but I fear I may have lost my path.
Since then, I've read a bit, and now I seriously believe I am just a P-zombie, and that consciousness is an illusion.
> In a party, you will find me donning a black silk shirt and a black suit with a drink talking with attractive women.
You see the limits yet you enjoy life at the maximum. It's very inspiring.
I hope you will stick to HN for a while so I can ask you more questions.
I have so many other questions to ask you - like where your interest for Buddhism came from, where were you born and in which culture (and if not Bengal, how come you are interested in Bengali poetry?), how you find your interest and the things worth pursuing with our limited time...
Yet I don't want to you bother you too much.
> I am striving towards the goal of annihilation of self and I already knew Anatta (no-soul doctrine).
I discovered Buddhism in a manga about the life of Buddha (seriously). Like you, I've had a brush with death that was transformative at the time, but I fear I may have lost my path.
Since then, I've read a bit, and now I seriously believe I am just a P-zombie, and that consciousness is an illusion.
> In a party, you will find me donning a black silk shirt and a black suit with a drink talking with attractive women.
You see the limits yet you enjoy life at the maximum. It's very inspiring.
I hope you will stick to HN for a while so I can ask you more questions.
I have seen this article many times over the years. And I do believe it's a fine piece but also that it would great to see what people said coming from different cultures. And at the same time it would be great to read about what had made people happy in life.
The universe does not owe you anything. You do not owe the universe anything.
Of course some things/actions have consequences and of course some things just happen, but overall nothing cares about you except maybe yourself and some other living things that like you.
Of course some things/actions have consequences and of course some things just happen, but overall nothing cares about you except maybe yourself and some other living things that like you.
> The universe does not owe you anything. You do not owe the universe anything.
Being grateful for how we have been taken care of , by our parents, our teachers our friends, by the biosphere, and figuring out what we 'owe' them in return seem to me what life is really about.
Being grateful for how we have been taken care of , by our parents, our teachers our friends, by the biosphere, and figuring out what we 'owe' them in return seem to me what life is really about.
Work hard until you don't have to work hard.
I was just watching yesterday a guy who is probably mid 50s talking about how he worked for 20 years getting up early in the morning and being stuck indoors looking at his screensaver and imaging he was in it. He was saving up for a catamaran and when he had enough money , he quit to sail the world with his younger girlfriend. Boomer dreams do come true. Sailing Joy was his channel.
I was just watching yesterday a guy who is probably mid 50s talking about how he worked for 20 years getting up early in the morning and being stuck indoors looking at his screensaver and imaging he was in it. He was saving up for a catamaran and when he had enough money , he quit to sail the world with his younger girlfriend. Boomer dreams do come true. Sailing Joy was his channel.
Solid advice. Many (most?) people will not notice when they have reached the point where they no longer really have to work.
This is relevant and well worth reading.
Written by Kate Bowler, who at 35 was diagnosed with Stage IV colon cancer, and given a slim chance of survival.
One Thing I Don’t Plan to Do Before I Die Is Make a Bucket List
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/28/opinion/sunday/colon-canc...
Written by Kate Bowler, who at 35 was diagnosed with Stage IV colon cancer, and given a slim chance of survival.
One Thing I Don’t Plan to Do Before I Die Is Make a Bucket List
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/28/opinion/sunday/colon-canc...
This type of research needs to be controlled for age. The body of an 80 year old person is materially different from that of a 20 year old and that might change their outlook on life drastically. An unbiased researcher would seek out the regrets of dying 10 year olds, 20 year olds, 30 year olds etc etc
My wife always wonders why I don't care about certain things around the house. I always tell her I know for an absolute fact that when I'm on my deathbed I will never wish I spent more time worrying about how green my grass is.
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Maybe the only dying people with other people around who cared to listen to their regrets tend to have worked hard at sensible careers.
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wisdom
These are average people right? They worked in like HR or accounting, maybe something more blue collar? Well no wonder they regretted working. I wonder what you would get asking people who worked for a higher purpose? Dying certainly sucks, as does aging.
How do you define what a higher purpose is?
Workaholics always think that they're doing something super important, no one would voluntarily invest there time into something they feel is utterly useless.
What if one day they wake up with a realization that the purpose wasn't as "higher" as they've though it was? That they've missed other important stuff in their life? I've seen it happen to people around me...
Workaholics always think that they're doing something super important, no one would voluntarily invest there time into something they feel is utterly useless.
What if one day they wake up with a realization that the purpose wasn't as "higher" as they've though it was? That they've missed other important stuff in their life? I've seen it happen to people around me...
Doing some kind of high impact medical research, exploring the cutting edge of science, political or intellectual revolutions, making a spaceship to Mars, etc...
> hat if one day they wake up with a realization that the purpose wasn't as "higher" as they've though it was?
Look if you are researching how to save lives, you are researching how to save lives..
> hat if one day they wake up with a realization that the purpose wasn't as "higher" as they've though it was?
Look if you are researching how to save lives, you are researching how to save lives..
I guess you don't have real field experience - its a super frustrating job. 10 years of efforts end up in bureaucratic quagmire, rewriting same stupid article/publication 10x. You may find out you spent all thaat time in direction which doesn't work. No, its often a properly shitty job, unfortunately.
People in such field often, very explicitly, express to me how they regret going into it and how easy life I have it with my office job with tons of time for hobbies. No life, just locked in the labs. These are not anymore the days of Pasteur or Marie-Curie where fame comes to hard workers.
You want rewarding job? Doctors. Teachers. But ask them and few are happy with the job.
I'd say its a mindset thing - either you can be happy with little, or not and then its hard to not die with regrets. Personally, I've set my life and did all major decisions with primary aspect of 'not having regrets when dying'. It may or may not ultimately bring the result desired but it gives a clear, good direction in life which is enough for me.
People in such field often, very explicitly, express to me how they regret going into it and how easy life I have it with my office job with tons of time for hobbies. No life, just locked in the labs. These are not anymore the days of Pasteur or Marie-Curie where fame comes to hard workers.
You want rewarding job? Doctors. Teachers. But ask them and few are happy with the job.
I'd say its a mindset thing - either you can be happy with little, or not and then its hard to not die with regrets. Personally, I've set my life and did all major decisions with primary aspect of 'not having regrets when dying'. It may or may not ultimately bring the result desired but it gives a clear, good direction in life which is enough for me.
> I guess you don't have real field experience
You are mindbogglingly overconfident in your opinion and experience relative to my own.
You are mindbogglingly overconfident in your opinion and experience relative to my own.
The irony here is that in order to do any of the above things and to do them to the extent that you have a large impact on the world you have to sacrifice many, many other things in your life.
You can't be a dedicated parent and slave away 80+ hours/week in a lab doing research. The day has 24 hours for everybody and you can't be world class with a 9-5pm.
You can't be a dedicated parent and slave away 80+ hours/week in a lab doing research. The day has 24 hours for everybody and you can't be world class with a 9-5pm.
Then when you're on your death bed you realise that ultimately it was all futile, because no matter what you did or how successful you could have been at it: every life ends up at the same point you are at now.
The point is, I don't think it's as simple as that.
The point is, I don't think it's as simple as that.
I think that's incredibly cynical. It feels good to leave a mark on others lives.
What I think is that you need to be mindful to decide while it's happening. It might be satisfyingly important, or it might be meaningless, just very desirable. Really no objective way to measure it. Maybe someone helped a ton of people but let down those close to them, and they end up with regret.
> How do you define what a higher purpose is?
Judging by my conversations with Silicon Valley hiring managers these days: selling more ads.
Judging by my conversations with Silicon Valley hiring managers these days: selling more ads.
I’m a teacher. In very clear and obvious ways, my works “matters”, and I have the privilege of living my values every day. Paradoxically, I am increasingly sad and angry (which is not my natural disposition) about my work and very well may be on the path to burning out.
My wife and I are actively planning what will happen if I don’t return to teaching next year. What’s our runway? What will I do? (UX? PM? Sales? …?). Would it be possible to find a position where I can work 20-30 hours per week and be more present for our young son? Or - should I try to maximize income to make up for years of never making more than 45k?
I have strong emotions about all of this, but having a higher purpose is only so sustaining.
My wife and I are actively planning what will happen if I don’t return to teaching next year. What’s our runway? What will I do? (UX? PM? Sales? …?). Would it be possible to find a position where I can work 20-30 hours per week and be more present for our young son? Or - should I try to maximize income to make up for years of never making more than 45k?
I have strong emotions about all of this, but having a higher purpose is only so sustaining.
What would you regret then? These all seemed like things I could ask myself.
-Define dream
-Set up a plan to the goal/dream
-execute plan until achieved - but review on a set time table to make sure you are heading in the right direction.
Start, life really is short.