One in Three U.S. Workers Are Earning Less Than $15 an Hour(bloomberg.com)
bloomberg.com
One in Three U.S. Workers Are Earning Less Than $15 an Hour
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-22/federal-minimum-wage-1-in-3-us-workers-make-less-than-15-an-hour
67 comments
> Any federal minimum will create waste on one side and want on another.
Who can afford the waste, who will be wanting? While that's probably not the point I think it's a very convenient bonus to many people advocating for a federal minimum.
Who can afford the waste, who will be wanting? While that's probably not the point I think it's a very convenient bonus to many people advocating for a federal minimum.
> Who can afford the waste, who will be wanting?
Big companies like Amazon can afford the waste and small businesses will be left wanting.
Big companies like Amazon can afford the waste and small businesses will be left wanting.
Even Canada doesn't have a Federal minimum wage on the private sector; it's entirely left to the Provinces.
I don’t know where these people are working. Here in the south where the cost of living is SUPER low, Hardee’s will pay you 16$ an hour to start. Waffle House will give you 18. Panera Bread $20.
I don’t think this data has caught up with wage increases after the labor shortage.
I don’t think this data has caught up with wage increases after the labor shortage.
Those are posted signs but do you know anyone who was offered that. They could just post that to look like they’re not avoiding hiring.
>Those are posted signs but do you know anyone who was offered that.
Well this is HN, so I'd hazard to guess that most people don't know many people who take those jobs.
>They could just post that to look like they’re not avoiding hiring.
Seems like a conspiracy theory to me unless there's some sort of evidence that they're ignoring applications.
Well this is HN, so I'd hazard to guess that most people don't know many people who take those jobs.
>They could just post that to look like they’re not avoiding hiring.
Seems like a conspiracy theory to me unless there's some sort of evidence that they're ignoring applications.
Stop listening to BlueAnon.
There is also the question of if a full time schedule is available at some hourly wage, or if they expect to pay part time, with on call availability.
> They could just post that to look like they’re not avoiding hiring.
And achieve what, exactly?
And achieve what, exactly?
Profit. They need to recoup Covid losses with higher prices and smaller staff.
What you're saying is:
1. Pretend like you're hiring staff
2. ???
3. Profit
What is happening in step 2 that is leading to step 3? And more importantly, why does step 2 need step 1?
1. Pretend like you're hiring staff
2. ???
3. Profit
What is happening in step 2 that is leading to step 3? And more importantly, why does step 2 need step 1?
“higher prices and smaller staff“
Again, why do they need to pretend to hire people? They can just keep the smaller staff.
I didn't say it was some evil strategy but those signs aren't just for potential candidates, they know customers see them too. I think the appearance that the service industry is working harder at hiring than they are is an effort to justify higher prices to customers.
Remember demand has kept up despite higher prices and in many cases reduction to quality of service. Doing the same thing is the natural state for a business operator, even if they want to hire they may not have time to interview. There is no benefit to taking signs down in that case when every other restaurant has them up.
Remember demand has kept up despite higher prices and in many cases reduction to quality of service. Doing the same thing is the natural state for a business operator, even if they want to hire they may not have time to interview. There is no benefit to taking signs down in that case when every other restaurant has them up.
I saw a sign for Papa Johns the other day offering a $1000 signing bonus. Of course they don't specify anything else, so who knows how it's paid out. My girlfriend was offered something similar as a teacher but the bonus was paid over 12 months so came out to something equivalent to $80/mo -- not really helpful.
$1000 dollar signing bonus might be the most money they have had all at one time in one place. $80 a month could be a full tank of gas. Just pointing out it can be a big bonus relatively.
Ah yes, let's throw them pennies so they may afford transportation to slave for minimum wage that they can barely survive on in the first place.
The point though is well made. A 1000 signing bonus is a HUGE improvement over no signing bonus and a wage that you can barely feed one person on. Remember - these jobs require no skill or prior experience.
I don't think that every single human should be required to be heavily specialized just to earn a livable wage, that's ridiculous
yahn00(1)
Hard to really understand significance of this without normalizing for cost of living in each state.
In particular I’d like to see this normalized by the median rent for a one bedroom apartment. Looking at the map, most of the lower paid folks live in cheaper areas, which is to be expected.
In particular I’d like to see this normalized by the median rent for a one bedroom apartment. Looking at the map, most of the lower paid folks live in cheaper areas, which is to be expected.
Also what ages people are when they are earning this really matters too
Why? Labor is labor.
If labor is labor should everyone be paid the same?
Edit: age matters for a number of reasons, as employees gain more experience they become more valuable and take on more responsibility. Also the amount of money a person needs as they get older usually increases (care for children and possibly their own parents etc). Earning minimum wage at 21 is very different than being 41 on minimum wage. Often businesses hire young staff as an investment, they are untrained and at first add no value and this is reflected in the wages. However as they progress they earn more (certainly true of me I started on a really low salary , barely minimum wage).
Edit: age matters for a number of reasons, as employees gain more experience they become more valuable and take on more responsibility. Also the amount of money a person needs as they get older usually increases (care for children and possibly their own parents etc). Earning minimum wage at 21 is very different than being 41 on minimum wage. Often businesses hire young staff as an investment, they are untrained and at first add no value and this is reflected in the wages. However as they progress they earn more (certainly true of me I started on a really low salary , barely minimum wage).
Because as you’re growing up you’re supposed to get work on yourself, get more skills hence leading to higher paychecks.
So no, labor isn’t labor.
Of course the lower paid people live in cheaper areas, where else can they live? $15/hr is no longer a sufficient/comfortable wage for anyone in the US.
I don’t disagree but has the minimum wage ever been a comfortable wage?
MIT has a living wage calculator to attempt to answer this question.
https://livingwage.mit.edu
I would guess that $15/hr is above the "living wage" in a majority of counties in the United States. Perhaps your perspective is skewed by your experience in expensive urban areas?
https://livingwage.mit.edu
I would guess that $15/hr is above the "living wage" in a majority of counties in the United States. Perhaps your perspective is skewed by your experience in expensive urban areas?
Why are you guessing if there's readily available data? Every single state (as a whole) on that MIT page, states a living wage that is greater than the listed minimum wage, for even a _single_ person with 0 dependents. $15/hr is on par or within $2/hr to a living wage EVERYWHERE according to MITs living wage.
Perhaps your perspective is skewed by thinking this is the 1990's still.
Perhaps your perspective is skewed by thinking this is the 1990's still.
I'm sorry, but what are you talking about? I didn't say anything about minimum wage.
Perhaps the problem is what the definition of "living" is? There is a gap between economic serfdom and comfortable/economic physiological safety.
Their definition of "living" is fairly simple. "The tool helps individuals, communities, and employers determine a local wage rate that allows residents to meet minimum standards of living." For the purposes of this calculator that's enough income for food, housing, transportation, civic duties, and medical care.
Their overall methodology is located here: https://livingwage.mit.edu/resources/Living-Wage-Users-Guide...
Their overall methodology is located here: https://livingwage.mit.edu/resources/Living-Wage-Users-Guide...
And how many people are living in those counties only because they van't afford to move?
How could anyone possibly know that? You could suppose the opposite is also true, but what's the point?
I know people in the suburban southeast who make $12-15/hr doing manufacturing jobs. Despite having more mouths to feed per income they're living a lot more comfortably and securely than the people in the urban northeast I know who are making $15/16/17/hr doing service jobs.
Tax credits are a huge deal for low wage workers. People who have a few kids can get like 50% of their wages in tax credits.
There are many rural areas where it absolutely is.
The fact that they included Puerto Rico in the data is especially weird. It has nowhere near the same kind of cost of living as states.
>The subminimum wage, again, is sort of a legacy of the racist and sexist creation of minimum wage policies in this country,”
It's kind of crazy how much liberty authors of studies have these days to speak outside the scope of their study. This explanation is handwavey at best or downright fraught if you actually look into the history of said rules.
It's kind of crazy how much liberty authors of studies have these days to speak outside the scope of their study. This explanation is handwavey at best or downright fraught if you actually look into the history of said rules.
It’s kind of crazy how you think free speech takes a back seat to your sensibilities.
No one else has to live in your mental box.
No one else has to live in your mental box.
I don't see how you can read the parent comment and conclude that he commenter wants "free speech" to "take a back seat". It's one thing to make unfounded claims outside your field of expertise on your personal blog or whatever, it's another thing entirely to do the same thing but on a report for a respectable organization.
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That history being that minimum wage was partly motivated by attempts to exclude Black workers from the job market. Same thing with gun control—it was efforts to disarm freed slaves. (Colonial powers disarmed their colonies too.)
Of course there are non-racist reasons for both the minimum wage and gun control! But these “taint by association with racism” arguments are always deployed in an extremely selective way. The Senate is racist because it supposedly was to help slave holding states (which isn’t true) but gun control isn’t racist even though it was definitely popularized in response to the perceived threat of armed Black men.
Of course there are non-racist reasons for both the minimum wage and gun control! But these “taint by association with racism” arguments are always deployed in an extremely selective way. The Senate is racist because it supposedly was to help slave holding states (which isn’t true) but gun control isn’t racist even though it was definitely popularized in response to the perceived threat of armed Black men.
I don't understand the concept that each state needs to have their minimum wage immediately changed to $15 an hour.
There's are hundred of thousands of possible factors that go into paying people in different economic areas with vastly different policies, laws, costs of living, etc. Not even including non-economic based policies that have had unintended effects on the economies of each individual state. Saying that "everybody should make 'x' dollars per hour" is so narrow-minded to me, but I'd welcome someone to help me understand. If you raise minimum wage up from (say) $8 to $15, what happens to everybody else in the state - do their wages go up by $7, or is their labor now worth $7 less because of this?
Is this just a new phenomenon where everybody thinks their opinion is fact, and critical thinking is taking the backseat to what people "feel" is right - completely disregarding any other factors that might make the situation as a whole _worse_ than before?
There's are hundred of thousands of possible factors that go into paying people in different economic areas with vastly different policies, laws, costs of living, etc. Not even including non-economic based policies that have had unintended effects on the economies of each individual state. Saying that "everybody should make 'x' dollars per hour" is so narrow-minded to me, but I'd welcome someone to help me understand. If you raise minimum wage up from (say) $8 to $15, what happens to everybody else in the state - do their wages go up by $7, or is their labor now worth $7 less because of this?
Is this just a new phenomenon where everybody thinks their opinion is fact, and critical thinking is taking the backseat to what people "feel" is right - completely disregarding any other factors that might make the situation as a whole _worse_ than before?
> what happens to everybody else in the state - do their wages go up by $7, or is their labor now worth $7 less because of this?
My neighbor having more does not mean I have any less.
My neighbor having more does not mean I have any less.
This kind of thing is always shocking to sheltered middle class people in their bubble. You start to think everyone lives like you.
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Is it not common to have started out working minimum wage jobs? I started out as a teenager making a little over 5 bucks an hour, like all my other peers at that time.
A third of the country aren't teenagers I believe is their point.
$15/hr * 40hr/week * 52week/year = 31200USD = 481000ZAR.
It took me at least 5 years as a software engineer with a CS degree to reach that per year in South Africa.
I understand cost of living adjustments etc etc but $15 per hour in SA would help so many people dramatically. We have a huge number of citizens living below the poverty line.
For perspective, our minimum hourly wage is 23.19ZAR per hour which is roughly 1.49USD.
It took me at least 5 years as a software engineer with a CS degree to reach that per year in South Africa.
I understand cost of living adjustments etc etc but $15 per hour in SA would help so many people dramatically. We have a huge number of citizens living below the poverty line.
For perspective, our minimum hourly wage is 23.19ZAR per hour which is roughly 1.49USD.
I don't think you understand cost of living as well as you think you do.
Look at incomes across the world normalized with PPP (Purchasing Power Parity):
https://income-inequality.info/
Earning $30k in the US puts one in the top 5% of the world's population with respect to income (adjusted for PPP).
https://howrichami.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i
https://income-inequality.info/
Earning $30k in the US puts one in the top 5% of the world's population with respect to income (adjusted for PPP).
https://howrichami.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i
What would be the cost of living on average in US? I don't know what's the good way to compare between countries though.
Numbeo is a site that offers comparisons between cost of living in various cities.
It tells me that rent for a 1 bedroom in Johannesburg is around $440 USD per month. In Denver, a mid level American city, you would be paying $1790 usd.
Also keep in mind that if you want health insurance in the US, you might end up spending $5k-$10k for just the insurance, getting care for anything beyond a yearly checkup is going to cost more.
It tells me that rent for a 1 bedroom in Johannesburg is around $440 USD per month. In Denver, a mid level American city, you would be paying $1790 usd.
Also keep in mind that if you want health insurance in the US, you might end up spending $5k-$10k for just the insurance, getting care for anything beyond a yearly checkup is going to cost more.
In SA we also have to use private health insurance as the state run facilities are really bad. We have no safe public transport and those who can afford their own car usually have one. Our policing is sub par and many have to pay for private security.
We also have a very high income tax rate. Up to something like 45% depending on your level of income.
If I for instance saved 10% of my salary vs someone earning comparatively the same in the US, I would have far less buying power in the world in general.
Overseas holidays are something very few can afford. Spending ZAR overseas is rough.
We also have a very high income tax rate. Up to something like 45% depending on your level of income.
If I for instance saved 10% of my salary vs someone earning comparatively the same in the US, I would have far less buying power in the world in general.
Overseas holidays are something very few can afford. Spending ZAR overseas is rough.
No doubt there’s a reason that so many SA choose to work overseas. My point was more that $15usd an hour just doesn’t go that far in the states, even though it sounds like a very livable wage outside of the US.
Even within the states there are massive discrepancies. $15/hr in San Francisco probably means you are on the edge of homelessness. Meanwhile that same pay in the southeast might be enough for a modest life.
Even within the states there are massive discrepancies. $15/hr in San Francisco probably means you are on the edge of homelessness. Meanwhile that same pay in the southeast might be enough for a modest life.
The US has a ton of regional variance in cost of living, not sure it makes sense to talk about average in this case.
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In the us you don’t multiply hours worked by 40. Minimum wage workers have few protections and are assigned less then full time hours to Avoid paying benefits. They can also end up with shifts like 2 on 2 off 2 on where employers don’t pay for gaps between peak hrs
Honestly, even statewide minimum wage is fairly ridiculous. Within the state of New York there are counties with a living wage as low as $13.23 (Wyoming County) and as high as $21.77 (New York County). This is a "problem" to be solved at the county level exclusively.
[0]: https://livingwage.mit.edu