I'm ex startup CEO, schizophrenic and ex-inmate. Where should do I go next
23 comments
You should go to a doctor. Self-diagnosing is not always accurate. Sometimes it is, but there are also other causes for schizoid symptoms. Even if you are correct, treatment is possible via therapy, meds, or both. A psychiatrist can help you through that process far better than us randos on HN. Ask one.
Be careful with your terminology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder
has nothing to do with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder
has nothing to do with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
Exactly. And I have no idea if OP is well educated in what these terms even means, or if they just know what they've seen on TV. But what they are describing in their posts makes me stand by my term. Which doesn't really matter - the point is to get help.
I'm more-less fine now, and compelling issue is resocialization. That's where I'm either forced to act, or remain aloof weirdo.
Never submitted my problems to a psychiatrist because if I said them out loud I would be in mental institution (paranoid schizophrenia).
Never submitted my problems to a psychiatrist because if I said them out loud I would be in mental institution (paranoid schizophrenia).
Assuming you are in the US, a psychiatrist isn’t going to involuntarily commit you unless you threaten to hurt yourself or someone else. (It’s fine to say that you’ve had those thoughts in past, but if you say that you are thinking of doing it now then they have to do something both because of the law and because of liability issues).
If your symptoms are “in remission” then now is a perfect time to talk to someone. They won’t feel under time pressure to prescribe medication and they can do a full work up to figure out what the issue is, and help prevent future problems.
As other people have said, many mental health issues have overlapping symptoms (my personal favorite is that chronic sleep deprivation can look almost identical to ADHD), and diagnostic techniques and treatment regimes do change over time. Leverage the massive investment someone else has made in medical school to get a reliable diagnosis.
If you get a diagnosis and are in treatment I think you’ll find it easier to honestly explain both your gap in employment history and why you are worth taking a chance on now.
That said, be aware that psychiatry does suffer from the same over-prescription problem as the rest of US medicine and that there are financial incentives for hospitals to direct you towards ECT (it’s a “procedure” so they can charge more than for a simple office visit).
If your symptoms are “in remission” then now is a perfect time to talk to someone. They won’t feel under time pressure to prescribe medication and they can do a full work up to figure out what the issue is, and help prevent future problems.
As other people have said, many mental health issues have overlapping symptoms (my personal favorite is that chronic sleep deprivation can look almost identical to ADHD), and diagnostic techniques and treatment regimes do change over time. Leverage the massive investment someone else has made in medical school to get a reliable diagnosis.
If you get a diagnosis and are in treatment I think you’ll find it easier to honestly explain both your gap in employment history and why you are worth taking a chance on now.
That said, be aware that psychiatry does suffer from the same over-prescription problem as the rest of US medicine and that there are financial incentives for hospitals to direct you towards ECT (it’s a “procedure” so they can charge more than for a simple office visit).
So you're telling that they can apply ETC to a person reporting paranoid schizophrenia symptoms? Who on earth with some of critical thinking remaining would volouturaly give up for such a procedure?
All I’m saying is that the schedule of payments for medical care in the US is largely driven by what Medicare pays for each treatment code. The Medicare payment schedule is set by a board that is largely dominated by “procedural” doctors (surgeons). The only procedure in psychiatry is ECT, so a psych dept can charge a lot more for ECT than (say) a course of CBT.
I’m not trying to imply that psychiatry is coin-operated, but if ECT is “funding the department” there is an incentive to propose ECT, even if the science doesn’t support that.
I’m not trying to imply that psychiatry is coin-operated, but if ECT is “funding the department” there is an incentive to propose ECT, even if the science doesn’t support that.
There is a nutritional cure for schizophrenia discovered by Dr. Abram Hoffer, MD, PhD. (Niacin and other nutrients..) Start reading here:
Glad you are in remission. The above information may help you stay in remission, and the plus is you can learn about it and do it yourself. All with inexpensive vitamins and other nutrients.
Most psychiatrists don't know (and don't want to know) about this. I understand your reluctance to see a doctor. Maybe you were smart to stay away from them.
As for work, you might give contracting a try for a while instead of seeking direct employment..
Best of luck to you!
http://doctoryourself.com/review_hoffer_B3.html
http://doctoryourself.com/hoffer_anecdote.html
Glad you are in remission. The above information may help you stay in remission, and the plus is you can learn about it and do it yourself. All with inexpensive vitamins and other nutrients.
Most psychiatrists don't know (and don't want to know) about this. I understand your reluctance to see a doctor. Maybe you were smart to stay away from them.
As for work, you might give contracting a try for a while instead of seeking direct employment..
Best of luck to you!
Please don't listen to this comment.
Hi Scollet, I see you have dismissed my comment, but I hope you will investigate the evidence and see for yourself. Optimal nutrition can be very helpful and even in many cases a cure. And, it beats the drugs offered by most doctors with their side effects. The drugs should be a last resort in conjunction with optimal nutrition, but unfortunately they are usually a first resort. Best, -mxv
>ex startup CEO, schizophrenic and ex-inmate. Where should do I go next
>Are there other misguided people like me?
Strictly considering logical progression, looks like you would have recognizable preparation for modern politics next.
>Are there other misguided people like me?
Strictly considering logical progression, looks like you would have recognizable preparation for modern politics next.
I have schizoaffective disorder which is diagnosted since June 2001. It is like bipolar with schizophrenic cycles. I was great in Visual BASIC and ASP 3.0 and made a docket calendar for a law firm in St Louis MO. When my symptoms got worse I was fired and burned out. I am 54 now. No criminal history.
I am trying to write apps for small law firms so the big law firms don't have an advantage.
Most of my friends died of suicide or COVID 19. I lost track of the others. But due to my age and obsolete skills no startup wants to deal with me.
I am trying to write apps for small law firms so the big law firms don't have an advantage.
Most of my friends died of suicide or COVID 19. I lost track of the others. But due to my age and obsolete skills no startup wants to deal with me.
When did you begin to notice symptoms? Around 33?
In June 2001 I heard two airliners crash into our tower one after the other. There was no airliners I hear noises. I went on short term disability and during Sept 11 2001 I saw airliners crash into the wtc towers on tv. It freaked me out. Ever since then I had symptons. I was hired at the law firm in 1997 and had no signs of the illness.
My first diagnosis of OCD was around that age. A few years later it was Delusional Disorder. At 42 now the diagnosis has changed to Schizophrenia.
egoid333 wrote:
> what kind of ai and crypto projects do you work on? just curious.
>
> i have a similar story.
Hello egoid333: You are dead, so few will see your comments, including the poster, as his karma is too low. But as you clearly respond to:
> Are there other misguided people like me?
I tried to establish a contact, <deleted>
--
Regardless, good initiative! I hope you'll get your life back on track. Or maybe consider tech isn't your best bet to do so, a-t a-l-l, as it requires some isolation.
I've experienced someone schizophrenic in my life, and I must confess that wasn't the best of experiences, as it was intensely demanding, in fact impossibly so because of past events. Still I have respect for the intensity.
I agree the medical establishment can only do so much, and that the inclination there is to make you pay handsomely for something that can't truthfully be called a treatment. That's putting it mildly, as there are perverse financial incentives at play, not something you want to have to deal with. It's complicated.
That is, IF you can afford it to begin with (not likely), which is the point some evidently fortunate posters seem to miss. Duh. Must be disheartening to read.
Hello egoid333: You are dead, so few will see your comments, including the poster, as his karma is too low. But as you clearly respond to:
> Are there other misguided people like me?
I tried to establish a contact, <deleted>
--
Regardless, good initiative! I hope you'll get your life back on track. Or maybe consider tech isn't your best bet to do so, a-t a-l-l, as it requires some isolation.
I've experienced someone schizophrenic in my life, and I must confess that wasn't the best of experiences, as it was intensely demanding, in fact impossibly so because of past events. Still I have respect for the intensity.
I agree the medical establishment can only do so much, and that the inclination there is to make you pay handsomely for something that can't truthfully be called a treatment. That's putting it mildly, as there are perverse financial incentives at play, not something you want to have to deal with. It's complicated.
That is, IF you can afford it to begin with (not likely), which is the point some evidently fortunate posters seem to miss. Duh. Must be disheartening to read.
I've added a TOX handle to my account in case if anyone's trying to reach me.
Somehow I missed this chat alternative: tox.chat
what kind of ai and crypto projects do you work on? just curious.
i have a similar story.
i have a similar story.
So in case if people are interested with onset here's how it started.
So I founded a startup around mid 2013, and we managed to get real traction by the end of 2013. I was pulling long workdays 6 days a week, but results were worth it. My fiance wasn't happy with it, and slowly my personal life started to deteriorate, but I hopped that's just temporarily. Around that time I started to use marijuana to relief stress, but eventually developed a bad habbit a daily evening smoker.
By 2014 we started to look for post-seed funding, I managed to get some mid-funding from VCs, I started this marathon of even longer work-days, and tried to enforce this on my peers who didn't really wanted to go beyond 9-5. This is when tensions started to develop with a founding team. Mid-2014 we have only a month of runway and major VC negotiations dragging. I have a nervous breakdown shouting on my peers, blaming them for bad work.
My girl friend breaks up with me the same time and I'm double-devastated. We have to switch to remote-mode and cut half of our employees who all were my personal peers. We have to cut our own salaries and look for external gigs to stay afloat.
Around that time that major VC aqui-hires us and puts in their office. I really disliked the guys for their style and in hindsight it was obvious how they operate.
I continue to work from home only going there for weekly meetings.
And here's how psychosis breaks in. Initially a started to notice people following me when I go to office. I though that maybe their putting pressure on me, provoking me on something to officially exclude from a business. Then bizzare effects kicked in. It seemed to me like people on street were echoing my thoughts, commenting on my actions and me overall. I started to research the symptoms and they were straight from DSM-V. On one of the office meetings I started to get a sense that company isn't going anywhere, meeting are non-sence and participants are only acting. I had to look normal on the outside so I never leaked and of symptoms and never told anyone.
World of Wild West was running that time and I started to develop a delusion that I'm in simulation, that world around me is fake, that it's all a surreal joke. But it was only a beginning to me.
Eventually I was denied access to an office, my email and company accounts were cut, but I was never officially fired, jsut cancelled. I acted all the time, never gave a single clue that my mental state is cracked. My questions regarding business future, relations with investors and future of products were ignored. Thou I did continue to put on some code up until denial to entry.
So after 3 shocking strikes in a row: break-up, aggressive acquihire and firing a was left alone with little funds, so I switched to crypto to make a living. Symptoms were increasing in intensity, a heard faint voices when I was trying to fall asleep, sometime I would wake up and my head is occupied with seemings conflicting ideas about why on earth it has happened. I understood that delusions were trying to integrate with reality, but nonetheless with all my power to rationally think of things I started to develop double-thinking patterns. A full blown schizophrenia.
I made some money to continue living, but people on street were still commenting me, peers I met were hearing my thoughts. My parents weren't really my parents -- I felt like IRL deepfake actors. I still pushed through ignoring these delusions. By that time I wasn't smoking, drinking or taking any drugs. I understood that there's something fundamentally wrong about me, my world or probably my simulation meta-theory is way deeper than I previously though. I just acted and ignored these effects.
Around 2015 AI winter ended and I got my hands dirty with it (I am still involved). My found justification for some of my delusions, that probably I'm living within a VR-esque world with super-advanced AI. I could only act publicly, because these delusions made any interpersonal interactions impossible. I couldn't connect with people and eventually left alone in my schizo-world.
For next 5 years I learned to ignore the symptoms, never knowing what caused them.
So I founded a startup around mid 2013, and we managed to get real traction by the end of 2013. I was pulling long workdays 6 days a week, but results were worth it. My fiance wasn't happy with it, and slowly my personal life started to deteriorate, but I hopped that's just temporarily. Around that time I started to use marijuana to relief stress, but eventually developed a bad habbit a daily evening smoker.
By 2014 we started to look for post-seed funding, I managed to get some mid-funding from VCs, I started this marathon of even longer work-days, and tried to enforce this on my peers who didn't really wanted to go beyond 9-5. This is when tensions started to develop with a founding team. Mid-2014 we have only a month of runway and major VC negotiations dragging. I have a nervous breakdown shouting on my peers, blaming them for bad work.
My girl friend breaks up with me the same time and I'm double-devastated. We have to switch to remote-mode and cut half of our employees who all were my personal peers. We have to cut our own salaries and look for external gigs to stay afloat.
Around that time that major VC aqui-hires us and puts in their office. I really disliked the guys for their style and in hindsight it was obvious how they operate.
I continue to work from home only going there for weekly meetings.
And here's how psychosis breaks in. Initially a started to notice people following me when I go to office. I though that maybe their putting pressure on me, provoking me on something to officially exclude from a business. Then bizzare effects kicked in. It seemed to me like people on street were echoing my thoughts, commenting on my actions and me overall. I started to research the symptoms and they were straight from DSM-V. On one of the office meetings I started to get a sense that company isn't going anywhere, meeting are non-sence and participants are only acting. I had to look normal on the outside so I never leaked and of symptoms and never told anyone.
World of Wild West was running that time and I started to develop a delusion that I'm in simulation, that world around me is fake, that it's all a surreal joke. But it was only a beginning to me.
Eventually I was denied access to an office, my email and company accounts were cut, but I was never officially fired, jsut cancelled. I acted all the time, never gave a single clue that my mental state is cracked. My questions regarding business future, relations with investors and future of products were ignored. Thou I did continue to put on some code up until denial to entry.
So after 3 shocking strikes in a row: break-up, aggressive acquihire and firing a was left alone with little funds, so I switched to crypto to make a living. Symptoms were increasing in intensity, a heard faint voices when I was trying to fall asleep, sometime I would wake up and my head is occupied with seemings conflicting ideas about why on earth it has happened. I understood that delusions were trying to integrate with reality, but nonetheless with all my power to rationally think of things I started to develop double-thinking patterns. A full blown schizophrenia.
I made some money to continue living, but people on street were still commenting me, peers I met were hearing my thoughts. My parents weren't really my parents -- I felt like IRL deepfake actors. I still pushed through ignoring these delusions. By that time I wasn't smoking, drinking or taking any drugs. I understood that there's something fundamentally wrong about me, my world or probably my simulation meta-theory is way deeper than I previously though. I just acted and ignored these effects.
Around 2015 AI winter ended and I got my hands dirty with it (I am still involved). My found justification for some of my delusions, that probably I'm living within a VR-esque world with super-advanced AI. I could only act publicly, because these delusions made any interpersonal interactions impossible. I couldn't connect with people and eventually left alone in my schizo-world.
For next 5 years I learned to ignore the symptoms, never knowing what caused them.
Congrats on your early ventures.
I'll reiterate what others have said here: find a doc.
Even if you have to go into inpatient, it's better than letting the illness win.
I'll reiterate what others have said here: find a doc.
Even if you have to go into inpatient, it's better than letting the illness win.
In my early 20s I founded a startup, got it on rails with traction, revenue and investors, and I was fired from it.
Around time of firing I started developing schizophrenia, still undiagnosed because I never went to psychiatrists. I broke all my contacts within a year, locked myself in, broke up with my significant one and switched to a social recluse lifestyle.
I started tinkering with crypto around that time and made some money, so I don't really have to work a lot of time if I keep my lifestyle.
I kept my programming skills up do date, spent a lot of time with AI projects, but I was unable to find team-mates to work on these projects. Most of these projects I was involved with were solo efforts.
Eventually decease progressed to a point where I had no real life, locked in my apartment tinkering with AI and crypto, Terry Davis style. My schizophrenia symptoms were getting even worse to a point I had no real-world contacts except my parents.
Around 2019 my father died and my mental state gotten even worse. I landed in prison for 2 years for attacking a police officer.
It has been 6 months after the prison, I now mostly involved with AI RL, Rust and Substrate projects, but I'm afraid I've completely lost a direction in life, with 0 peers still. I figured out I might just find a normal programming job, but so far my resume with 8 years of non-working gap keeps alienating employers. I completely unsure where should I go next. I have no social life.
Are there other misguided people like me?