Apple ends consulting agreement with Jony Ive(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
Apple ends consulting agreement with Jony Ive
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/technology/apple-jony-ive-end-agreement.html
51 comments
I can’t find the article right now, but I believe Ive hasn’t really been present, in the figurative and also literal sense, at Apple for over half a decade. There was a really good piece regarding this that I read probably at least a couple of years ago, where Ive basically retreated to his home, “running” things from there, and would require presentations to be done close to his home, where he would barely contribute feedback.
I think he and Cook don’t get along. Ive is honestly a bit full of himself in a non-introspective way. I believe he wanted the Apple Watch to be a pure luxury object, and not just a smart watch. I’m not really sure I ever got the love for his designs. They are boring, cold, and often designed at the cost of functionality. I’m not sure how one gets to be so famous and rich struggling at both form and function. And with Cook being a logistics person, without a personality to be found, I’m sure their meetings were probably pretty awkward.
I think he and Cook don’t get along. Ive is honestly a bit full of himself in a non-introspective way. I believe he wanted the Apple Watch to be a pure luxury object, and not just a smart watch. I’m not really sure I ever got the love for his designs. They are boring, cold, and often designed at the cost of functionality. I’m not sure how one gets to be so famous and rich struggling at both form and function. And with Cook being a logistics person, without a personality to be found, I’m sure their meetings were probably pretty awkward.
I think most of his designs are pretty shameless knockoffs of Dieter Rams stuff, he does the same simple form thing that Rams pioneered.
Ive’s designs definitely changed over time. His history at Apple actually predates the return of Jobs, and he was responsible for much more expressive designs like that of the Twentieth Anniversary Mac, the Newton eMate, the PowerMac G3 AIO, and perhaps most famously the various generations of CRT iMac. It wasn’t until the early 2000s that he started leaning harder into the straight lines and cold metal.
sony minidisc player is the epitome of design... or I'm just stuck in the 90's
I had that growing up and loved it, it was a big upgrade over my discman, but for me the iPod 5th generation is the best personal music device ever created. I recently bought one (my original got stolen a decade ago) and upgraded it to use a 512gb SD card.
It's still the king. Got a pair of planar headphones and I'm hearing things in Beatles songs I've listened to ten thousand times that I've never heard before. When I use it in the car, I don't have to take my eyes off the road to change the track, the subtle audio feedback let's you use the menu without looking at it. It fits well in the hand, I wouldn't want it any smaller or lighter (it's a little too light due to my SD card mod).
No touchscreen, no internet connection and it holds my entire collection and then some.
I don't even like Apple laptops or phones, but that thing is a work of art.
Edit: The best part is I can service it. You could buy almost an entire iPod worth of replacement parts on eBay.
It's still the king. Got a pair of planar headphones and I'm hearing things in Beatles songs I've listened to ten thousand times that I've never heard before. When I use it in the car, I don't have to take my eyes off the road to change the track, the subtle audio feedback let's you use the menu without looking at it. It fits well in the hand, I wouldn't want it any smaller or lighter (it's a little too light due to my SD card mod).
No touchscreen, no internet connection and it holds my entire collection and then some.
I don't even like Apple laptops or phones, but that thing is a work of art.
Edit: The best part is I can service it. You could buy almost an entire iPod worth of replacement parts on eBay.
Not only the epitome of design, but the pinnacle of Mechanical sound playing objects. After this it's all flash memory and lcd screens.
I'm not stuck in the 90s ... which model of Sony Minidisc?
Is design supposed to be transient to catch up with the times?
Like fashion, the discipline is bound to change over time; fresh new thinkers are always needed to continually keep pace with innovation.
Like fashion, the discipline is bound to change over time; fresh new thinkers are always needed to continually keep pace with innovation.
> Is design supposed to be transient to catch up with the times?
The only thing design catches up is money saving. Computer cases from the 90 look infinitely better than the present day ones. Damn, even IBM ones look like someone "worked" on them. Today you will see cheap copies of the same thing with an axe applied here and there for variation. The same with other stuff (TV, monitors, keyboard, mouses). And cars.
The only thing design catches up is money saving. Computer cases from the 90 look infinitely better than the present day ones. Damn, even IBM ones look like someone "worked" on them. Today you will see cheap copies of the same thing with an axe applied here and there for variation. The same with other stuff (TV, monitors, keyboard, mouses). And cars.
To you. They look infinitely better to you.
> utilitarian
I wouldn't say so. My feeling with Apple software in the past ~5 years or so is that it's been a slow devolution into "growth & engagement" and catering to idiots (and nudging them to do counter-productive things) rather than true utility.
True utility would be to do a task, do it well, and don't change all the time. Instead, Apple has been devolving more and more into what you'd expect from a typical "growth & engagement" startup, with for example the Music apps on Mac and iOS being only a shadow of their past selves (despite iTunes having real problems).
Design-wise, countless features have been replaced by copious amounts of whitespace and the trend shows no signs of stopping. Say what you want about skeuomorphism, but I'll take anything over absolutely nothing.
I wouldn't say so. My feeling with Apple software in the past ~5 years or so is that it's been a slow devolution into "growth & engagement" and catering to idiots (and nudging them to do counter-productive things) rather than true utility.
True utility would be to do a task, do it well, and don't change all the time. Instead, Apple has been devolving more and more into what you'd expect from a typical "growth & engagement" startup, with for example the Music apps on Mac and iOS being only a shadow of their past selves (despite iTunes having real problems).
Design-wise, countless features have been replaced by copious amounts of whitespace and the trend shows no signs of stopping. Say what you want about skeuomorphism, but I'll take anything over absolutely nothing.
Smart Playlists!
Back in the iTunes days, I had a smart playlist that consisted of songs that I last listened to between 6 and 7 months ago. Kind of a reminder of music that I liked, but maybe forgot about. I had several different playlists that were all dynamic and based on some combination of my listening history, download date, release date, and/or other ID3 tags.
The new Music app is stupid when it comes to playlists. You have to manually create each one.
Back in the iTunes days, I had a smart playlist that consisted of songs that I last listened to between 6 and 7 months ago. Kind of a reminder of music that I liked, but maybe forgot about. I had several different playlists that were all dynamic and based on some combination of my listening history, download date, release date, and/or other ID3 tags.
The new Music app is stupid when it comes to playlists. You have to manually create each one.
This - the nag screen to sign up iCloud when attaching photos in iMessage is prime example of this:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250951130?answerId=2518...
This is for your security. You shall upload all your pictures on iCloud so they can scan them for CP. (and maybe sell some metadata or even data to ad companies) /s
> catering to idiots
Lots of UI improvements, still no container/jail support in the kernel. It has never been more a lifestyle statement, and less a useful operating system.
Lots of UI improvements, still no container/jail support in the kernel. It has never been more a lifestyle statement, and less a useful operating system.
While I doubt this will happen, I am interested to see if any of Apples products (recent MacBook Pros excluded) will get a drastic design overhaul.
Could you imagine if they finally made the Magic Mouse a decent mouse? Recharge from the front, more ergonomic, great pairing/switching.
Or, just wired. I don't care if they call it the Bottom Feeders Mouse for N00bs I'd buy it.
The whole point of it not charging from the front is so people don't just always leave it plugged in
Maybe make it chime so you have to unplug it and they keep their annoying "we know better than you" while leaving users to their own literal devices
Maybe make it chime so you have to unplug it and they keep their annoying "we know better than you" while leaving users to their own literal devices
I hope they don't change the ergonomics. In 30 years of using a mouse, trying out dozens of different ones, this is the only one that I've ever been able to use the whole day without discomfort. It's magic.
I can, other companies are making that.
Can we have kick ass laptops again?
We already started getting them imo. Look at the 14in MacBook Pro for example.
I’ve been just as happy or happier with my company provided M1 Pro 16” than I was with the much vaunted pre-touchbar 2015 15”. I can’t think of too much more that I’d want from a laptop.
HDMI 2.1, DP 2.0, ECC RAM, replaceable SSDs, non-adhesive batteries, and, ideally, a cellular modem. In my case, it's likely I'll be waiting a long time.
What's your company's policy on data safety? I would hope there's something in place should your Mac's motherboard fry.
What's your company's policy on data safety? I would hope there's something in place should your Mac's motherboard fry.
> ideally, a cellular modem
Does this make sense, these days? My phone's connection is a click away, in my Mac's WiFi menu. What does an integrated modem solve?
Does this make sense, these days? My phone's connection is a click away, in my Mac's WiFi menu. What does an integrated modem solve?
You can take the cellular modem in my X1 out of my cold dead hands and not a moment before. Open laptop, connected - no matter where you are in the world.
> Open laptop, connected - no matter where you are in the world.
This is how I have mine set up, when I travel. Open lid, and it automatically connects to my phone. Maybe my use case is different, since I always have my phone with me. I suppose one technical advantage would be the possibility of a better antenna, within the screen.
This is how I have mine set up, when I travel. Open lid, and it automatically connects to my phone. Maybe my use case is different, since I always have my phone with me. I suppose one technical advantage would be the possibility of a better antenna, within the screen.
the more obvious advantage is better battery life on my phone having its own on my laptop
My use case at least would benefit little from any of those listed features. Not that I wouldn’t take them if they were available without sacrifices elsewhere, but they’re cherries on top, not dealbreakers.
Data safety isn’t a concern because changes are pushed regularly. The amount of work lost would be at most two or three hours’ worth.
Data safety isn’t a concern because changes are pushed regularly. The amount of work lost would be at most two or three hours’ worth.
Two monitors.
It's a lot better than the old Macbook Pros, but that's only because they've been terrible for so long.
All I want is a Mac in a Thinkpad-like shell, with ports and docking support and all that 1990s-style jazz. But they can keep the modern monitor, that's pretty good.
All I want is a Mac in a Thinkpad-like shell, with ports and docking support and all that 1990s-style jazz. But they can keep the modern monitor, that's pretty good.
Is this the guy responsible for the Intel Macbook Pros becoming a useless single-port monstrosity with unusable keyboards? I think his personal motto was "Make it as thin as possible without sacrificing usability, then forget the second half and make it thinner just because I said so."
If so, good riddance! I wish Apple would go back to being an engineering company instead of a boutique advertiser.
If so, good riddance! I wish Apple would go back to being an engineering company instead of a boutique advertiser.
I know I’m in the minority but I really love my work 2019 MBP’s butterfly keyboard. I’m a very light typist, maybe that’s why, I dunno. I’ll miss it when it’s gone. I have a personal M1 MBP, and while I like it more in almost every other way, the keyboard is just ok by comparison.
I didn't realize anyone actually liked those! Thanks for sharing.
As someone with a very particular keyboard preference (Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop), I know what it's like to find that one keyboard you finally mesh with. It's tough when that happens to be built in to a laptop.
At least there'll probably be a lot of those flooding the used markets soon...
As someone with a very particular keyboard preference (Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop), I know what it's like to find that one keyboard you finally mesh with. It's tough when that happens to be built in to a laptop.
At least there'll probably be a lot of those flooding the used markets soon...
I loved the feel of the keyboard (contrary to some) but durability and redundancy were god-awful.
I'm in the same camp as the two of you!
Sure, I've had mine replaced 5 times, but I love the actuation/feel of the keys. It was/is light years ahead of any other 2mm or less keyboard I've tried.
I'm legitimately considering buying an M2 Macbook Pro 13 so I can have the final iteration.
Sure, I've had mine replaced 5 times, but I love the actuation/feel of the keys. It was/is light years ahead of any other 2mm or less keyboard I've tried.
I'm legitimately considering buying an M2 Macbook Pro 13 so I can have the final iteration.
Aside from the reliability.. For me the step was too fast too quickly. I skipped one generation of laptops, so for me it felt really weird. I think that right now I'd like it. But if they'd re-introduce it, I'd simply refuse to buy for a few years because of the issues.
Apple was originally an arts-based company, and much more concerned with design over engineering.
As for what Jony Ive came up with, his Wikipedia page has a lot of detail: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive
As for what Jony Ive came up with, his Wikipedia page has a lot of detail: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive
I dunno, their designs for the last decade or so, before the most recent years, have been entirely unimpressive. Yeah, they're supposed to be known for it, but IMHO their outputs were pretty ordinary and caused a lot of usability issues. Disposable trash-can desktops? Pro laptops with no ports? iPads that bend every which way? iPhones that didn't have working antennas? Whoever was responsible for those, whether it's Ive or anyone else... I just hope Apple is using this separation to turn a new leaf.
So much of design is subjective, but my particular problem with them is that they emphasized form over function so much that their products were unusable in the end. I remember needing a new laptop for a few years, and kept looking at the Mac ones year after year but unable to type on them.
Then, whatever happened in the last 2-3 years has been AMAZING. I thought Ive had already left in some capacity and that was why. Finally, usable pro machines again (still wish they had a USB-A port). I look forward to what they will produce without being under a bad design dictator anymore.
So much of design is subjective, but my particular problem with them is that they emphasized form over function so much that their products were unusable in the end. I remember needing a new laptop for a few years, and kept looking at the Mac ones year after year but unable to type on them.
Then, whatever happened in the last 2-3 years has been AMAZING. I thought Ive had already left in some capacity and that was why. Finally, usable pro machines again (still wish they had a USB-A port). I look forward to what they will produce without being under a bad design dictator anymore.
I wouldn't say that's true. The Apple II was actually the more flexible and engineering focused of the 1977 Trinity with it's multiple expansion slots and built in assembly monitor. It was very much a computer for hobbiests because that's what Woz personally wanted.
I am hoping Ive contributed to development of Apples forthcoming Reality Glasses. Existing VR/AR spectacles are so clunky. I am hoping for something almost light are regular vision glasses.
This isn't the result of existing makers not understanding that thinner/lighter would be ideal; it's the result of current technical/physical limitations. New tech like pancake lenses[1] isn't out the door yet, but advancements like these will be the next step.
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/AR_MR_XR/comments/utxvkg/3m_pancake...
[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/AR_MR_XR/comments/utxvkg/3m_pancake...
Sony set a very high watermark practicality and desirability - subjective of course, but just look at what they've done over the years:
https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/design/gallery/
I hope Apple can inject some creativity.