Ask HN: How did you become one of the first 50 at a major tech company?
29 comments
Approach it like a VC. Identify smart people. Hang around where they hang, like accelerators and coworking spaces. Listen to their pitch and ask yourself whether this could be an amazing thing.
I actually missed out on lots of good companies. Most are very humble. They don't smell like a big shot CEO, more like a lost student. They don't convince you that they're good at what they do, nor do they beg for help. So it's easy to miss. It's just some folks working out of a cheap area of town, sometimes even a large house. I rarely see big startups emerge from the expensive part of town, but there may be exceptions for some towns.
I actually missed out on lots of good companies. Most are very humble. They don't smell like a big shot CEO, more like a lost student. They don't convince you that they're good at what they do, nor do they beg for help. So it's easy to miss. It's just some folks working out of a cheap area of town, sometimes even a large house. I rarely see big startups emerge from the expensive part of town, but there may be exceptions for some towns.
Terrible advice, startups have so many variables it's nearly impossible to time on purpose, especially as any kind of outsider.
Go to Stanford or Harvard if you can, otherwise if it's too late to get into that club, it comes down to whatever network you can cultivate, along with timing and luck.
Hindsight is 20/20. Don't get too sucked into the casino that is Startup Land.
Go work at BigCorp for big bucks if you're actually adept at engineering. For non-harvardites, everything else is generally a gamble.
If you do work for a startup, make sure to join early for >1% total equity, and if things start to smell funny, don't waste too much time. Every day spent is one you can never get back.
Go to Stanford or Harvard if you can, otherwise if it's too late to get into that club, it comes down to whatever network you can cultivate, along with timing and luck.
Hindsight is 20/20. Don't get too sucked into the casino that is Startup Land.
Go work at BigCorp for big bucks if you're actually adept at engineering. For non-harvardites, everything else is generally a gamble.
If you do work for a startup, make sure to join early for >1% total equity, and if things start to smell funny, don't waste too much time. Every day spent is one you can never get back.
What does this post have to do with the post you replied to? What does it have to do with the thread?
The OP asked for advice or anecdotes from people who have been an early employee at a successful startup. There's value in that question, and in answers to it. Obviously not all answers will be applicable to all situations, but nobody reasonable would think they would be.
Then here comes this reply, which smells like the HN equivalent of a StackOverflow "you shouldn't be trying to solve that problem" comment.
Maybe someone doesn't want to spend years of their life writing design docs nobody will ever read, for a feature that won't ship, for a product that will get shut down in a year because the executive sponsor lost interest?
Of all sites, why post threadbare anti-startup talking points on Hacker News?
The OP asked for advice or anecdotes from people who have been an early employee at a successful startup. There's value in that question, and in answers to it. Obviously not all answers will be applicable to all situations, but nobody reasonable would think they would be.
Then here comes this reply, which smells like the HN equivalent of a StackOverflow "you shouldn't be trying to solve that problem" comment.
Maybe someone doesn't want to spend years of their life writing design docs nobody will ever read, for a feature that won't ship, for a product that will get shut down in a year because the executive sponsor lost interest?
Of all sites, why post threadbare anti-startup talking points on Hacker News?
You have revealed cynicism without evidence. There is no shame in working at a BigCorp, they ship lots of useful real life products and features.
My response expressed the lessons I (and many other HNers) have learned THE HARD WAY ALREADY!
What is wrong with trying to save a young puppy from suffering the harsh consequences of reality that I've had to endure? It's free advice, if you don't find it helpful please feel free to ignore it and move along, matey. In the meantime, I'd like to keep trying to rescue the pups.
My response expressed the lessons I (and many other HNers) have learned THE HARD WAY ALREADY!
What is wrong with trying to save a young puppy from suffering the harsh consequences of reality that I've had to endure? It's free advice, if you don't find it helpful please feel free to ignore it and move along, matey. In the meantime, I'd like to keep trying to rescue the pups.
> What is wrong with trying to save a young puppy from suffering the
> harsh consequences of reality that I've had to endure?
If someone goes to baking.com and asks for advice on becoming a pastry chef, don't warn them away because being a pastry chef pays poorly.
Respectfully, it seems best if we agree to disagree this time around. I acknowledge the validity of your feelings on this matter, and humbly request the same from you. There is more than enough room for us both, and you've made your position clear.
Cheers and please take care, John.
Cheers and please take care, John.
> If someone goes to baking.com and asks for advice on becoming a pastry chef, don't warn them away because being a pastry chef pays poorly.
I would want to be warned. It's highly likely I wasn't aware of that information.
I would want to be warned. It's highly likely I wasn't aware of that information.
Giving any advice depends on context.
I've listened to someone say they want to become a chef, and knowing it involves 12+ hour shifts, I've said "That sounds like a solid choice!" because this was an actual thing that pays money and a thing they could actually do.
I've listened to someone say they want to become a chef, and knowing it involves 12+ hour shifts, I've said "That sounds like a solid choice!" because this was an actual thing that pays money and a thing they could actually do.
Disagree - I would want to know the reality of being a pastry chef if I went to baking.com.
So this and the parent post both make sense to some degree. My problem is I don't even know how to identify the people even if they were right in front if me. And even if I did I am not sure how I can get them to "accept" me at more than a grunt (or capability level - 2) capacity.
An example, about 10 years ago a YC company (that would go on to be valued at high double digit billion valuation) was hiring. They were series A at the time. I knew I was more than qualified for that role (I had done that role at that stage of a company in similar domains multiple times). I had no pedigree ofcourse (founders were all MIT so clear they they were doing a breadth first traversal around that network of friends). Naturally never heard back. Sour grapes? Reasonably so.
To this point startup land is a huge crapshoot. Being in the in-network confers a 1000x advantage already and being outside is just tons of things you need to line up to get lucky!
My learning has also been you can try for the jackpot, or work at a big co and outside your work work on building your brand (building, blogging, side projects, marketing etc). Bonus if that brand comes through your work.
An example, about 10 years ago a YC company (that would go on to be valued at high double digit billion valuation) was hiring. They were series A at the time. I knew I was more than qualified for that role (I had done that role at that stage of a company in similar domains multiple times). I had no pedigree ofcourse (founders were all MIT so clear they they were doing a breadth first traversal around that network of friends). Naturally never heard back. Sour grapes? Reasonably so.
To this point startup land is a huge crapshoot. Being in the in-network confers a 1000x advantage already and being outside is just tons of things you need to line up to get lucky!
My learning has also been you can try for the jackpot, or work at a big co and outside your work work on building your brand (building, blogging, side projects, marketing etc). Bonus if that brand comes through your work.
One thing I've learned from sports is that positioning wins matches. Positioning is literally being in the right place at the right time, but it's not dumb luck. There's a bit of strategy to it. I love Andreessen's breakdown of luck: https://pmarchive.com/luck_and_the_entrepreneur.html
Another good analysis of it is Gladwell's book Outliers.
Branding is an approach, but make sure it aligns with getting you in position. Some things will make you visible, but it would not position you as the smartest person on a list.
Another good analysis of it is Gladwell's book Outliers.
Branding is an approach, but make sure it aligns with getting you in position. Some things will make you visible, but it would not position you as the smartest person on a list.
I feel it's impossible for all first 50 to get >1% mathematically. it's more like first 5 other than co-founders.
There will be "suckers" who join for a tiny slice of the pie. Don't waste your time and life, don't let it be you.
Yeah, >1% is a lot of equity for a non-founding employee.
Not really, if they aren't going to value you at >1% when they're small, they're probably delusional and you already know everything you need to make a good decision in your own best interest.
Founders being greedy when the company is worthless is always a bad sign in my considerable experience (more than 20 years in the game, and grew up in PA, CA worshipping the startup culture of the 90s).
For the quintessential case study in founder greed gone wrong, search around about how it went for a company I passed over because of low equity offer, their name was Clinkle.
Founders being greedy when the company is worthless is always a bad sign in my considerable experience (more than 20 years in the game, and grew up in PA, CA worshipping the startup culture of the 90s).
For the quintessential case study in founder greed gone wrong, search around about how it went for a company I passed over because of low equity offer, their name was Clinkle.
2% max seems pretty normal to me. Ex: https://searchgently.notion.site/Founding-SWE-at-Gently-com-....
How much equity would you expect if you were the first engineering hire?
How much equity would you expect if you were the first engineering hire?
[deleted]
Yup this is correct
Is the goal here to make money? Engineer #25 will get at most .3% equity. At a billion dollar valuation that's 3 million, which sounds like a lot, but if you see that exit after 5 years, that's more like 600k a year. Senior eng at Fang makes 400k+, and is much more attainable than first 50 at big company. You'll have a much better chance climbing FAANG ladder if you want to make a bunch of money
Luck. Luck. And oh yeah also Luck.
I'm the first employee at a well funded, fast growing company. I was an entrepreneur myself so I saw a lot of startups. The most successful of the lot is one whose early days were so pathetic. Their initial idea was uninspiring. Their CEO was always tired and deflated. He took a bad investment and was pretty bummed by that.
No one can tell...
I'm the first employee at a well funded, fast growing company. I was an entrepreneur myself so I saw a lot of startups. The most successful of the lot is one whose early days were so pathetic. Their initial idea was uninspiring. Their CEO was always tired and deflated. He took a bad investment and was pretty bummed by that.
No one can tell...
With respect, this is an unrealistic goal. The answer certainly boils down to “be in the right place at the right time”.
I got a referral from a friend that was also an early employee at the startup. I joined mostly because the people seemed smart and I thought I'd learn a lot from them and have fun building a cool product.
To be honest, most of it is just luck. My two cents is to just find really smart and hungry people, look for evidence of incredibly fast product velocity and some semblance of product market fit. For first 50, there's a decent number of post series A startups that should have those indicators.
To be honest, most of it is just luck. My two cents is to just find really smart and hungry people, look for evidence of incredibly fast product velocity and some semblance of product market fit. For first 50, there's a decent number of post series A startups that should have those indicators.
I had worked at Yahoo with people who had been there forever; did good work and made a good impression. Working on a lot of stuff that needed to be done, but not enough work to have a person or usually do knowledge transfer until it breaks (or needs to move), so lots of interfacing with old timers.
Anyway, I got recruited by four people I worked with there, who had formed startups. I managed to choose the one that had the best exit, but just by luck. One person I didn't want to work with again, one was at a time I was still happy at Yahoo and the product wasn't super interesting to me, the other two called me within weeks of each other (they were both moving to larger offices from an office they shared that was closing) and I picked the one with a realistic commute and the product I liked better.
So, I guess make an impression that you can get stuff done with smart, entreprenuerial people.
Anyway, I got recruited by four people I worked with there, who had formed startups. I managed to choose the one that had the best exit, but just by luck. One person I didn't want to work with again, one was at a time I was still happy at Yahoo and the product wasn't super interesting to me, the other two called me within weeks of each other (they were both moving to larger offices from an office they shared that was closing) and I picked the one with a realistic commute and the product I liked better.
So, I guess make an impression that you can get stuff done with smart, entreprenuerial people.
Outside of Silicon Valley (I'm only interested in UK/Europe) I've seen several opportunities. I did work for a startup for around 3months which was a terrible fit for me ~15 people and not offering equity at that time but low paying market rate salary. I was never going to have the passion for the business the founders have and that seemed to be unacceptable to them and they were constantly firing people.
I also had the opportunity to come in as a dba at a db as a service startup locally. There were only 2-3 people there and that may have been a good fit for me but I didn't want to make the jump at that point. They probably would have offered equity.
Around that time I would attend various db/web/mobile meetup events locally and I imagine that would be a good way to get in.
I also had the opportunity to come in as a dba at a db as a service startup locally. There were only 2-3 people there and that may have been a good fit for me but I didn't want to make the jump at that point. They probably would have offered equity.
Around that time I would attend various db/web/mobile meetup events locally and I imagine that would be a good way to get in.
I had a friend that worked there and he tweeted about an open position and I applied and got the job.
I talked with two co-founders (CEO and the CTO at the time) on my interview process and when they explained their plans, I saw a common problem that everyone I knew had (banking in Brazil), so my first thought was: this can be a huge opportunity.
I talked with two co-founders (CEO and the CTO at the time) on my interview process and when they explained their plans, I saw a common problem that everyone I knew had (banking in Brazil), so my first thought was: this can be a huge opportunity.
First one: rare-to-unique domain knowledge useful to that team. (So, yeah, luck.)
Second: founder (went nowhere, as so many do).
Third: ditto.
Current: Founder is a long time colleague and friend from the first one, plus rare domain knowledge, plus demonstrated enthusiasm for the work while contracting with the team.
So a mix of luck and hard work.
Second: founder (went nowhere, as so many do).
Third: ditto.
Current: Founder is a long time colleague and friend from the first one, plus rare domain knowledge, plus demonstrated enthusiasm for the work while contracting with the team.
So a mix of luck and hard work.
Founded a “pitch startup” in college to get my feet wet, was a wearable wristband for basketball tracking. Lasted a year and a half but gave enough experience to see how the lower tier startup ecosystem functioned.
Spent a few years in industry getting as much practical experience in autonomy software as I could, working for less than I was worth but gaining valuable experience making actual robots do complicated things.
Got into the MRSD program at CMU and signed up for a tough line up of classes, worked hard on projects to have a strong showcase of work. Made a portfolio website that highlighted technical accomplishments, honed my resume.
Spent as much time as I could during my final semester interviewing and seeking out early companies, used big companies as interview practice. Had offers from Anduril, Aurora, Boston Dynamics, Uber ATG, Fox Robotics. Talked to a few others, some small Boston startups that hadn’t showed progress, on in Houston that had inexperienced engineering/leadership. Most of these were opportunities that I tracked down and applied for, but Anduril did a recruiting session on campus and did a dinner with Palmer Luckey that I attended. Someone from Human Capital reached out and talked me into doing the dinner.
Aurora had potentially high upside and seemed like a sure thing (SPAC has proven otherwise) but treated me like I’d be implementing other people’s ideas. Uber ATG was low and wouldn’t negotiate, Boston Dynamics was a pile of cash and seemed like fun work, but didn’t have any equity stake as part of the compensation package.
Had red flags from Fox Robotics, so steered clear. Observed a cold call while I was on site that had a weird tone, and seemed to be entirely engineer driven rather than having a blend of business and engineering acumen.
The founders at Anduril were really experienced which stood out, all coming from previous successful startups. Was easy to tell I’d be providing strong value to the company with their blend of hardware/software and could see a wide range of market potential in the defense space. Having a founder like Palmer meant there would be steady ability to hype the company to new hires, capacity to scale and grow an engineering team is extremely important for a startup - if you are impressed by the founders then others will be. Other members of the team had strong background building Palantir and growing a business in the defense space. Above all seemed like a group of people with a strong sense of mission who cared deeply about accomplishing their mission, having a purpose that is clearly defined is incredibly galvanizing. Joined somewhere in the 45-50 range.
Leave enough time in your career plan to fail with at least one of the startups you found/join. Failure is always a possibility and you should budget for it. Be willing to walk away - I gave up the equity in my first startup and walked away because it was evident that we were spinning our wheels and not gaining traction. Build valuable skills and make sure you have a breadth of practical knowledge so that you can wear a lot of hats when you first join, and be prepared to gracefully transfer those hats to new hires who onboard and are able to take work off your plate.
If you’re in high school do cool things that you can talk to later. Built a remote controlled hovercraft, spent more time programming video games than playing them. Interacted a bunch with people in the Blender community for feedback on what I was building. Choice of where you go for undergrad can be less important if you end up doing grad school, but I wouldn’t have had the chance to join Anduril if I hadn’t been at a top tier institution.
Spent a few years in industry getting as much practical experience in autonomy software as I could, working for less than I was worth but gaining valuable experience making actual robots do complicated things.
Got into the MRSD program at CMU and signed up for a tough line up of classes, worked hard on projects to have a strong showcase of work. Made a portfolio website that highlighted technical accomplishments, honed my resume.
Spent as much time as I could during my final semester interviewing and seeking out early companies, used big companies as interview practice. Had offers from Anduril, Aurora, Boston Dynamics, Uber ATG, Fox Robotics. Talked to a few others, some small Boston startups that hadn’t showed progress, on in Houston that had inexperienced engineering/leadership. Most of these were opportunities that I tracked down and applied for, but Anduril did a recruiting session on campus and did a dinner with Palmer Luckey that I attended. Someone from Human Capital reached out and talked me into doing the dinner.
Aurora had potentially high upside and seemed like a sure thing (SPAC has proven otherwise) but treated me like I’d be implementing other people’s ideas. Uber ATG was low and wouldn’t negotiate, Boston Dynamics was a pile of cash and seemed like fun work, but didn’t have any equity stake as part of the compensation package.
Had red flags from Fox Robotics, so steered clear. Observed a cold call while I was on site that had a weird tone, and seemed to be entirely engineer driven rather than having a blend of business and engineering acumen.
The founders at Anduril were really experienced which stood out, all coming from previous successful startups. Was easy to tell I’d be providing strong value to the company with their blend of hardware/software and could see a wide range of market potential in the defense space. Having a founder like Palmer meant there would be steady ability to hype the company to new hires, capacity to scale and grow an engineering team is extremely important for a startup - if you are impressed by the founders then others will be. Other members of the team had strong background building Palantir and growing a business in the defense space. Above all seemed like a group of people with a strong sense of mission who cared deeply about accomplishing their mission, having a purpose that is clearly defined is incredibly galvanizing. Joined somewhere in the 45-50 range.
Leave enough time in your career plan to fail with at least one of the startups you found/join. Failure is always a possibility and you should budget for it. Be willing to walk away - I gave up the equity in my first startup and walked away because it was evident that we were spinning our wheels and not gaining traction. Build valuable skills and make sure you have a breadth of practical knowledge so that you can wear a lot of hats when you first join, and be prepared to gracefully transfer those hats to new hires who onboard and are able to take work off your plate.
If you’re in high school do cool things that you can talk to later. Built a remote controlled hovercraft, spent more time programming video games than playing them. Interacted a bunch with people in the Blender community for feedback on what I was building. Choice of where you go for undergrad can be less important if you end up doing grad school, but I wouldn’t have had the chance to join Anduril if I hadn’t been at a top tier institution.
How I got in: referral from friend who found the startup through another friend.
Why I joined: Was tired of big tech and wanted to learn faster. Founders were smart. Ran a surprisingly tight interview process.
Advice: if I were to reverse-engineer this, I would follow Seed-Series A investments from Tier 1 firms. These are the highest-signal companies.
Why I joined: Was tired of big tech and wanted to learn faster. Founders were smart. Ran a surprisingly tight interview process.
Advice: if I were to reverse-engineer this, I would follow Seed-Series A investments from Tier 1 firms. These are the highest-signal companies.
Tier 1 firms (YC, 500 startups?) are great, but honestly they do invest in a lot of crap too. Glassdoor has some surprisingly tiny companies and they're useful for flagging issues. I do bring up these issues in the interviews and let the interview address them fairly.
How did you decide to join that specific company over all of the others out there at the time?
Do you have any advice for someone who might be looking for the same growth potential but doesn't want to waste time at just any old startup?