The Failure Mode of Clever (2010)(whatever.scalzi.com)
whatever.scalzi.com
The Failure Mode of Clever (2010)
https://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/06/16/the-failure-state-of-clever/
49 comments
Every physics thread is 20% legitimate questions, 60% high-ego software engineers explaining how dark matter doesn't sound right to them, and 20% answers and refutations to the other 80%. About half of that 20% contains a misunderstanding, and the other half has a slight mis-phrasing or unimportant omission that all replies fixate on.
>You need to give an introductory class in yourself to others, over and over again, at the risk of boring yourself to tears, in order not to be judged by low-context people for your high-context comments.
The art of quickly and effectively bringing other people up, in the specific way relevant to a conversation, to a level that took you years to reach, is a complex skill and one you can learn to enjoy.
>You need to give an introductory class in yourself to others, over and over again, at the risk of boring yourself to tears, in order not to be judged by low-context people for your high-context comments.
The art of quickly and effectively bringing other people up, in the specific way relevant to a conversation, to a level that took you years to reach, is a complex skill and one you can learn to enjoy.
> About half of that 20% contains a misunderstanding, and the other half has a slight mis-phrasing or unimportant omission that all replies fixate on.
I feel like this is more like 50% of the comment chains.
It's the main reason I rarely comment on hnews these days if it relates to my area of expertise.
I wish low brow nitpicking and sidetracking was more discouraged in the guidelines. It's a nuisance.
I feel like this is more like 50% of the comment chains.
It's the main reason I rarely comment on hnews these days if it relates to my area of expertise.
I wish low brow nitpicking and sidetracking was more discouraged in the guidelines. It's a nuisance.
[deleted]
Yes, so very well put!
The loss of context / transformation of context that Twitter and Facebook imposes is key to how it has been used, to fuel genocides and foment political turmoil as well as to cross-pollinate across previous cultural divides.
The loss of context / transformation of context that Twitter and Facebook imposes is key to how it has been used, to fuel genocides and foment political turmoil as well as to cross-pollinate across previous cultural divides.
I've been a fan of Scalzi's twitter and blog for a while and this is one of my personal favourites.
It's kind of the general case of Poe's Law.
I now ask myself (usually) "Does correctly interpreting my comment/joke require the reader/listener to know that I am clever, droll, sarcastic and definitely not-a-nazi?"
It's kind of the general case of Poe's Law.
I now ask myself (usually) "Does correctly interpreting my comment/joke require the reader/listener to know that I am clever, droll, sarcastic and definitely not-a-nazi?"
> "Does correctly interpreting my comment/joke require the reader/listener to know that I am clever, droll, sarcastic and definitely not-a-nazi?"
This gets even more fun cross culturally. I used to practice emoting in the mirror when first moving to America because people couldn’t read me and would often joke/complain that I come off like a robot.
Even now it still takes some conscious effort to over-do my emotions. Especially around surprises and such.
Back home they now say I “grin like an american”.
This gets even more fun cross culturally. I used to practice emoting in the mirror when first moving to America because people couldn’t read me and would often joke/complain that I come off like a robot.
Even now it still takes some conscious effort to over-do my emotions. Especially around surprises and such.
Back home they now say I “grin like an american”.
Same, my humor is very dry. Everyone seems to laugh, but given it’s very deadpan I’ve made the mistake of being “humorous” around new people who don’t know me. Shockingly I later find their first impression was that I’m a complete ass. C’est la vie.
In university I was introduced to a group of people by a common friend. After ward she told me they all argued about me; half the group thought I was the funniest guy and the other half a complete ass.
"To Avoid Criticism, Say Nothing, Do Nothing, Be Nothing"... https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/01/09/say-nothing/
Nah, I just try to avoid being TOO clever until people get to know me. Then they know to look for the joke.
Those aren't always mutually exclusive
If the failure mode of clever is "you're definitely-a-Nazi.", that's on them.
Even if that is so, I suspect it is more likely to be a problem for you rather than them.
Hmm interesting. Personally I'm willing to constructively critique the flaws of my communication style if other people are giving me feedback that I come across as an asshole or Nazi.
It's a good thing to keep in mind: if you really want someone who you're pretty sure already disagrees with you to at least entertain an alternative viewpoint, being clever isn't the way. Simple, straightforward and polite is the best point of entry.
If they're willing to pay attention, then you can try introducing some complexity in a more intelligent manner. Note the word 'clever' has a lot of negative connotations - highly manipulative people are generally described as 'clever'. Consider also the phrase 'too clever by half' - it's a way of stating that someone isn't trustworthy.
If they're willing to pay attention, then you can try introducing some complexity in a more intelligent manner. Note the word 'clever' has a lot of negative connotations - highly manipulative people are generally described as 'clever'. Consider also the phrase 'too clever by half' - it's a way of stating that someone isn't trustworthy.
For anyone unfamiliar with Scalzi, he’s an accomplished science fiction author. My favorite of his is Redshirts, an odd take on a Star Trek-esque world.
https://whatever.scalzi.com/about/books-by-john-scalzi/
https://whatever.scalzi.com/about/books-by-john-scalzi/
OTOH, that's my least favorite book of his. Ironically, it's probably his most "clever" book, using contrivances for humor.
In most of his other books the humor is not the primary goal. But they're filled with witty characters, so contain much more good humor IMO than Redshirts where humor is the primary goal.
John Scalzi writes some of my favorite books, but Redshirts isn't among them.
Our disagreement is another example of the central thesis of his linked essay!
In most of his other books the humor is not the primary goal. But they're filled with witty characters, so contain much more good humor IMO than Redshirts where humor is the primary goal.
John Scalzi writes some of my favorite books, but Redshirts isn't among them.
Our disagreement is another example of the central thesis of his linked essay!
That’s weird, I didn’t think Redshirts was really that funny. Honestly, I though it was pretty bleak, although in the final third or so I thought it was really excellent.
Scalzi says here that he intended it to be funny
https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/726k57/comment/dnhg4...
https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/726k57/comment/dnhg4...
I definitely thought it was going to be funny, but instead of "ha ha, we're all going to die!" it was "oh god, we're all going to die!". Still, by the time I got to the final bit (if you've read it, you know the part I'm talking about), I thought it was really excellent.
I wouldn't say it's necessarily 'asshole'. I've learned this lesson from my own behavior and watching people in my family. Sometimes the failure mode is that they just have no idea what you're talking about and are confused. People don't trust people who confuse them, so it's a good idea to be direct until they know your personality and how to interpret you, as the article suggests.
This has been very clear after this was written if you look at internet communication over the past 12 years, just people desperately chasing internet points (upvotes, clicks, whatever) with attempts to be clever, and when it fails it just seems to breed toxic assholishness.
We could sometimes afford to be like "oh, that person tried to be clever, maybe I should give them another shot instead of just lazily judging them on a sample size of one"
It's possible that in failing to appear clever, one might also even fail to appear as if they were trying to be clever.
i.e. It's not that the recipient thought a joke wasn't funny, it's that they didn't even realise a joke was being attempted.
i.e. It's not that the recipient thought a joke wasn't funny, it's that they didn't even realise a joke was being attempted.
That's really part and parcel of the whole Hanlon's razor thing: sometimes you have to put forth a tiny shred of imaginative effort to consider whether someone was maybe trying to be clever, or otherwise find the non-asshole interpretation of someone's actions.
This is not even remotely the most important case where failure of imagination is a moral failing.
This is not even remotely the most important case where failure of imagination is a moral failing.
Now close to retirement as an engineer, I've met and worked with many people, mostly men. I've been telling the new workers who get hired the only thing that really matters to your co-workers is your reputation. If you pull your work load and are willing to help others, good things will always return to you from your fellow employees. However...
<The failure mode of clever is “asshole.”>
There will always be some of these clever people! Either they will attempt to prove their superiority or prove how stupid you are. This, of course, ruins their reputation. When I've respectfully tried to clue them in when they complain because they think others don't like them or quit helping them, they almost always are completely amazed that someone could actually think they are lacking in social skills. Oh well.
<The failure mode of clever is “asshole.”>
There will always be some of these clever people! Either they will attempt to prove their superiority or prove how stupid you are. This, of course, ruins their reputation. When I've respectfully tried to clue them in when they complain because they think others don't like them or quit helping them, they almost always are completely amazed that someone could actually think they are lacking in social skills. Oh well.
This resonates very strongly with me. Well said. Thank you for writing it.
If you enjoyed that, maybe you might think well of some pithy musings along similar lines:
https://www.wisesayings.com/tact-quotes/
I particularly like the ones which relate tact to cleverness or wit.
https://www.wisesayings.com/tact-quotes/
I particularly like the ones which relate tact to cleverness or wit.
I don’t get what is meant by clever in this context, how do you “cleverly” introduce yourself by writing to someone?
I do agree with the broader point about cleverness’ failure mode though.
I do agree with the broader point about cleverness’ failure mode though.
Basically by including a bad pun, obscure reference or complicated joke that can be interpreted in multiple ways. If the reader doesn't get the reference or joke they are left to interpret it as being in bad taste or that the writer is, well, odd and not worth communicating with.
A good example from popular culture: Chris Rock did a clever bit that basically said Jada Pinket Smith looked as bad ass, and hot, as Demi Moore in GI Jane. Will Smith, and many others, took it as Rock attacking his wife. The failure condition of the clever bit was asshole.
A good example from popular culture: Chris Rock did a clever bit that basically said Jada Pinket Smith looked as bad ass, and hot, as Demi Moore in GI Jane. Will Smith, and many others, took it as Rock attacking his wife. The failure condition of the clever bit was asshole.
Think online dating, for example: opening a conversation with a witty (in your eyes) comment based on the person’s profile.
I suspect the reason this article came up was because it was referenced by a comment on another recent one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32337934 (from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32337520 ).
The advice my adult children remember most from me, especially when visiting rarely-seen family, is "Don't try to be funny, try to be nice."
Funny, nice people don't stand out either. Lucky, connected, affable ones do stand out. They don't even have to be anything else, most of the time.
They don't get there by being nice or funny all the time, but by practice and reading the audience.
They don't get there by being nice or funny all the time, but by practice and reading the audience.
Or just be clever and accept what happens. I am content with that approach.
Although, when I am emailed by strangers offering work, I am polite.
Although, when I am emailed by strangers offering work, I am polite.
it has been quite some time since I read this, perhaps 12 years, and I had forgotten the salient point that it is about the first private communication with someone the initiator of communication does not know, in that context trying to be clever and failing to seem clever to the person being contacted makes one seem an asshole.
So while it could also be that internet mob decides that someone failing to be clever is an asshole it should be noted that the failure probably was quite larger of a failure, given that it was misinterpreted by a mob probably reading something on social media they sought out and not just a single person getting contacted out of the blue.
So while it could also be that internet mob decides that someone failing to be clever is an asshole it should be noted that the failure probably was quite larger of a failure, given that it was misinterpreted by a mob probably reading something on social media they sought out and not just a single person getting contacted out of the blue.
I was thinking this was about devs writing overly clever code and leaving it uncommented for the next guy to work out wth it’s doing. Asshole indeed.
Well, good advice.
I really like Scalzi’s sci-fi, especially the audio books narrated by Will Wheaton- I am fairly sure I have listened to all of them.
I really like Scalzi’s sci-fi, especially the audio books narrated by Will Wheaton- I am fairly sure I have listened to all of them.
I can't tell if you are clever or asshole.
I am neither.
Seriously, I really do like his books, especially those narrated by Will Wheaton.
Seriously, I really do like his books, especially those narrated by Will Wheaton.
It's some kind of TNG in-joke, right?
OK, I understand. Will Wheaton was a child actor on Star Trek Next Generation. Will is now almost 50, and he now has other ways of making a living. Being a good audio book narrator is one of them.
I especially liked Wil Wheaton’s rendition of “Fuzzy Nation.” Kaiju Preservation Society was pretty fun too.
They may consider you an asshole. But if they do then you can enjoy the satisfaction of knowing that they are dumber than you.
That's the implied equation. We all know it well.
And consider the realm of smart specialists. Every time your circle and the other guy's circle fail to intersect. So he fails to get your subtle jokes. Which happens a lot. Bam! There's another dumb asshole.
That's the implied equation. We all know it well.
And consider the realm of smart specialists. Every time your circle and the other guy's circle fail to intersect. So he fails to get your subtle jokes. Which happens a lot. Bam! There's another dumb asshole.
So it's basically impossible to perform yourself in a high-context way on an open social media platform like Twitter, because people reading you for the first time will always misread you, and rarely want to spend the time to understand the context. And as a result we have the usual fireworks of misunderstanding.