Pay attention to deviations from mainstream incentives(commoncog.com)
commoncog.com
Pay attention to deviations from mainstream incentives
https://commoncog.com/pay-attention-to-deviations-from-mainstream-incentives/
98 comments
> That said, it also isn't clear to me how money laundering can work if everyone suspects it at your business!
The huge wave of "American Candy" stores in the UK are apparently being investigated: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61777445
In that case, the alleged fraud relates to business rates (effectively property taxes). If it was empty, the landlord would have to pay them. If there's a business there, the business is liable .. unless, of course, it simply runs for a while and then vanishes.
The huge wave of "American Candy" stores in the UK are apparently being investigated: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61777445
In that case, the alleged fraud relates to business rates (effectively property taxes). If it was empty, the landlord would have to pay them. If there's a business there, the business is liable .. unless, of course, it simply runs for a while and then vanishes.
There’s a bank near me. It is open usual hours but nobody seems to go there other than employees. Nobody goes through the drive through, nobody in visitor parking, ever.
When I used to work late at night I would drive by there would sometimes be people inside scurrying about.
It has been open for nearly 20 years like this.
When I used to work late at night I would drive by there would sometimes be people inside scurrying about.
It has been open for nearly 20 years like this.
Many people don't know this but a bank's primary business is lending, not borrowing. It's totally possible that it was a bank that did almost exclusively commercial loans and didn't have any retail savings/checking accounts.
A bank seems like one of the worst businesses to operate as a money laundering front. They are subject to a lot of disclosures and reviews other companies aren't.
There are also many banks that specialize in lending and borrowing in really large quantities.
One of those can keep an store open with no visible movement but still highly profitable.
One of those can keep an store open with no visible movement but still highly profitable.
> late at night I would drive by there would sometimes be people inside scurrying about
Sounds like the cleaners.
Sounds like the cleaners.
A couple of months ago I went with a friend of mine to get a kebab in a place we haden't been before.
It was a very large restaurant in an important street of town, and yet it was mostly empty and the kebab was very below average. There were also people talking at a large table and constantly getting food without even ordering.
First thing I said to my friend was: "Yep, sure as hell they're getting the money from somewhere else"
First thing I said to my friend was: "Yep, sure as hell they're getting the money from somewhere else"
I encountered something similar to this a long time ago in NYC. My friend who keeps tropical fish invited me to tag along with him shopping for interesting new additions to his tank.
We visited a couple in Chinatown that were striking similar to your Czech restaurant: employees kind of surprised to see someone come in the door, one operational fish tank with one or two fish in it amidst a large wall of empty tanks, comically outrageous over the top nobody-would-ever-pay-that-ever-ever prices. Figured it must have been some flavor of money laundering, but it also seemed... too obvious?
We visited a couple in Chinatown that were striking similar to your Czech restaurant: employees kind of surprised to see someone come in the door, one operational fish tank with one or two fish in it amidst a large wall of empty tanks, comically outrageous over the top nobody-would-ever-pay-that-ever-ever prices. Figured it must have been some flavor of money laundering, but it also seemed... too obvious?
There used to be a popular teriyaki place in Seattle that I frequented. Nicknamed "scary terri" because the neighborhood was [still is] notorious for street crime and the clientele were weird. It was always crowded though, the food was cheap and good. It wouldn't seem like a money laundering business by the standard of "but nobody eats here".
Turns out the owner was a fence, buying and selling stolen goods. The police busted them a few years back.
Turns out the owner was a fence, buying and selling stolen goods. The police busted them a few years back.
This one? https://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2015/04/17/detectives-service...
"Scary" indeed: look at that health inspector report...
"Scary" indeed: look at that health inspector report...
That's the one. It might not have been very healthy but it tasted pretty good.
I think this is quite common. Either money laundering or a legitimate front for something else. There was a very good Bosnian restaurant in my town about 15 to 20 years ago, but there was only one waiter, who may also have been the cook, and one half of the restaurant was always slightly darker and always had people who clearly "belonged there" sitting at a table in the corner. Perhaps I'm being unfair and it was just a gathering place for the local community and they decided to make a little money off of it as long as they had it, but it always gave me a weird vibe. In a different town I lived in there was an African restaurant that was never open, but always had two or three people in it drinking coffee. It was there for years and I never once saw it open or empty.
Austrian here. In my experience, good Bohemien food is hard to come by outside of where it's customary. Even in joints that don't seem to be money laundering.
I've had a similar experience with fellow classmates at a small osteria in Vienna we used to frequent when skipping English classes. But the food was actually decent and very cheap. But we never saw any other patrons.
I've had a similar experience with fellow classmates at a small osteria in Vienna we used to frequent when skipping English classes. But the food was actually decent and very cheap. But we never saw any other patrons.
True, but if you find yourself in La Paz, Bolivia, visit restaurant Vienna. It's been a few years since I've been, but the food was excellent as was selection of dishes, some of which I haven't had/seen since my childhood (I'm Slovenian).
I'm more Slovak than Czech but I'd be interested in knowing what the good Chicagoland Czech places are.
So, I actually have somewhat devastating news on this front :(. The issue is that all of these restaurants were owned and operated by old families and their clientele were mostly older people... so this entire community of interest is slowly dying (figuratively for sure; but also quite literately).
My family's favorite restaurant growing up was Riverside Family Restaurant. I was back home recently, and intended to have dinner there, but hadn't realized they had closed back in 2019.
https://www.rblandmark.com/2019/04/09/riverside-restaurant-o...
> “Most of the recipes were basically personal recipes, and some were fine-tuned, but the basic were always there,” Stanga said. “We still cook, we make the dumplings. So maybe that’s why we were around for so long. I think we tie people to their roots.”
Then Little Bohemia closed in early 2020 (before the pandemic, FWIW).
https://www.rblandmark.com/2020/01/21/riversides-restaurant-...
> Riverside Restaurant closed and now Little Bohemia. If you notice, they were both restaurants that served Bohemian/Czech food. Good comfort food. At present I can count more good ethnic Bohemian restaurants that have left the area than still remain. Of course who could forget Czech Lodge in North Riverside? A bit fancier than the usual. You could go up and down Cermak Road to satisfy your cravings.
> Luckily Czech Plaza in Berwyn and Klas in Cicero, both on Cermak Road are still open. In Stickney there is Josie’s. In Westchester, I’ve been told, there is a good place to go — or if you want to take a ride, go to Crystal Palace in Westmont. So there are still places to go, but I liked having them here. I’m starting to whine and that’s not good!
But they are wrong about Klas: it closed in 2016.
https://news.wttw.com/2021/07/29/ask-geoffrey-cicero-s-klas-...
> A connecting line – literally – for all these communities was 22nd Street, known today as Cermak Road.
> The street is named for Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak, himself a Czech immigrant who served only two years in office in the early 1930s.
> Klas ultimately closed its doors in 2016 mostly for financial and operational reasons, although many hope not for the last time – more on that in a minute. ... As for the Klas Restaurant today, it’s currently unoccupied and not in great shape. ... Their goal is to turn the building into a museum of Czech history, as well as a bar and event space.
They probably just kept hearing about it as there is that campaign to rejuvenate it?
https://www.wbez.org/stories/whats-that-building-the-klas-re...
> In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Chicago was a powerful magnet attracting Eastern European immigrants. One of the most colorful remnants of that era sits at 5734 W. Cermak Road in Cicero. Currently closed and moldering, an organized effort is trying to save it, and possibly transition it into a memorable place for immigrants from all parts of the world.
> Klas Restaurant has been vacant since it closed about five years ago. From the street, an exuberant exterior of half timbers, carved stone, wooden shutters and metal spires is still an eye-catching presence.
And then Czech Plaza closed in late 2020, now dealing with the post-COVID restaurant landscape.
https://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=45872
> Czech Plaza has announced it is closing at the end of December 2020. Really a sad situation, they were done in by the pandemic. They were also not able to really get in on the outdoor dining thing in the summer because they lacked space and are located on busy Cermak Road. The owner of the building (not the owner of the restaurant) is trying to sell it. So we have lost both Little Bohemia and the Riverside Restaurant, both in Riverside over the past few years, as well of course as Klas.
> What's left? Well Bohemian Crystal in Westmont seems to be open, as well as the Westchester Inn, and the McCook Bohemian Restaurant. If anyone ventures to go to these, I would check first as restaurants seem to close abruptly sometimes, change hours or their menus, or they are only doing carry out business now, although some are defying the Governor's orders and allowing in house dining. There is also Cafe Prague, in the city, but it does not look like they have much Czech food on the menu. If anyone else knows of a Czech restaurant in Chicagoland, please post here. Some may say the Golden Pheasant in Elmhurst, and the Bavarian Lodge in Lisle but I'm not sure these are really on point for Czech Food.
I am assuming the aforementioned "Crystal Palace" is the "Bohemian Crystal", which is the other restaurant my family would go to if and only if Riverside was closed. However, it is currently for sale, so I guess get it while the gettin's good? :(
https://old.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/ktw7jp/czech_plaza...
> Back on August of 2020, Bohemian Crystal was listed for sale on Zillow. I just checked the link once again and found this info:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/639-Blackhawk-Dr-Westmont...
> Redevelopment opportunity directly across the street from the new FMC Natatorium at Ty Warner Park development. The existing 6,371 square foot free-standing building sits on 1.45 acres located just off the busy Ogden Ave commercial corridor with a traffic count of 32,000 vehicles per day. Currently operated as a successful restaurant with multiple dining rooms, large fully equipped kitchen and bar. The existing building sits on an expansive lot with 84 surface parking spots. Surrounded by high-end car dealerships including McGrath Acura/Lexus of Westmont, Laurel BMW of Westmont, Infiniti of Clarendon Hills, Audi Westmont, Mercedes-Benz of Westmont and Napleton Westmont Porsche. Across the street from Standard Market gourmet grocery store. Convenient access from both Kingery Highway (Rt 83) and the Tri-State Tollway (I-294). Perfect redevelopment opportunity. Land is being sold with existing restaurant and all the equipment and fixtures. DO NOT DISTURB EXISTING BUSINESS.
(early edit:) Oh... and it is now listed as "Contingent" (I did all of this research back in April); if it already was then I didn't know what that meant at the time, but if the new owner isn't intending to keep a similar restaurant running--which I presume is unlikely, as it was listed as a "redevelopment opportunity"--then the Bohemian Crystal is about to go on the pile of dead restaurants :(.
(later edit:) And now tptacek noted below that they have actually announced that they will be closing soon :(. I am adding a quote of that letter here, for completeness.
http://www.bohemiancrystal.net/
> Dear Customers,
> With huge regret we have to inform you that after 41 years in business we are closing our restaurant, Bohemian Crystal. Our last day will be Sunday October, 2nd.
> We would like to thank to all our customers for their long term loyalty and friendship.
> Please, come to visit us before the front doors of our restaurant will be closed for good.
> Your Bohemian Crystal Restaurant Team
For my dinner in April, I started having to dig more deeply, trying to find ones I hadn't heard of before, and it just got more depressing.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ChicagoSuburbs/comments/bs59oe/favo...
> I frequently visited Bohemian Crystal in Westmont. Never had a bad meal in the five years I ate there. Westchester Inn is also on the list of my favorites.
> Seems like these kind of restaurants are slowly dying in the Chicago area. Muldau's in Brookfield is closed along with Chauteau Rose and Klaus restaurants once located in Cicero.
So that leaves only the Westchester Inn, the Bohemian Crystal (for now), and McCook Bohemian Family Restaurant & Lounge. The former two are closed on Monday, and I happened to be in town on a Monday, so I tried to go to McCook... and there was a handwritten special sign on the door saying they were closed for the day :(.
I ended up finding a place a very short drive away from there on Yelp which shockingly sold fruit dumplings (and seemed to be a Czech place generally)... but the reason they were confusing was because they were a really a catering outfit which also sold some frozen food, not a restaurant where I could get something to eat.
The (Czech) owner there told me to go to McCook, as they should be open; but when I told her they were closed for the day she got this super defeated look on her face as she sighed "of course" and then started going on a sad rant about how all of the Czech restaurants were gone.
She listed the couple others I knew, noting they were closed on Monday, and then mentioned the existence a fourth one I didn't know of which was also closed on Monday and Tuesday (but she couldn't remember the name, so I don't know what it was).
(final edit:) That fourth restaurant is probably Cafe Prague, which was mentioned earlier in a quote as "in the city, but it does not look like they have much Czech food on the menu". I checked, and they are, in fact, closed on both Monday and Tuesday. FWIW, their "Czech Specialties" menu is complete enough? (They don't have fruit dumplings, though, which I personally find very sad.)
My (Polish) friend and I ended up going to... Texas Roadhouse :/.
But so, there are still a handful of places that might be open if it isn't Monday. It isn't, though, the vibrant community it once was, back when I would hear people say "Czech-ago" :(.
My family's favorite restaurant growing up was Riverside Family Restaurant. I was back home recently, and intended to have dinner there, but hadn't realized they had closed back in 2019.
https://www.rblandmark.com/2019/04/09/riverside-restaurant-o...
> “Most of the recipes were basically personal recipes, and some were fine-tuned, but the basic were always there,” Stanga said. “We still cook, we make the dumplings. So maybe that’s why we were around for so long. I think we tie people to their roots.”
Then Little Bohemia closed in early 2020 (before the pandemic, FWIW).
https://www.rblandmark.com/2020/01/21/riversides-restaurant-...
> Riverside Restaurant closed and now Little Bohemia. If you notice, they were both restaurants that served Bohemian/Czech food. Good comfort food. At present I can count more good ethnic Bohemian restaurants that have left the area than still remain. Of course who could forget Czech Lodge in North Riverside? A bit fancier than the usual. You could go up and down Cermak Road to satisfy your cravings.
> Luckily Czech Plaza in Berwyn and Klas in Cicero, both on Cermak Road are still open. In Stickney there is Josie’s. In Westchester, I’ve been told, there is a good place to go — or if you want to take a ride, go to Crystal Palace in Westmont. So there are still places to go, but I liked having them here. I’m starting to whine and that’s not good!
But they are wrong about Klas: it closed in 2016.
https://news.wttw.com/2021/07/29/ask-geoffrey-cicero-s-klas-...
> A connecting line – literally – for all these communities was 22nd Street, known today as Cermak Road.
> The street is named for Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak, himself a Czech immigrant who served only two years in office in the early 1930s.
> Klas ultimately closed its doors in 2016 mostly for financial and operational reasons, although many hope not for the last time – more on that in a minute. ... As for the Klas Restaurant today, it’s currently unoccupied and not in great shape. ... Their goal is to turn the building into a museum of Czech history, as well as a bar and event space.
They probably just kept hearing about it as there is that campaign to rejuvenate it?
https://www.wbez.org/stories/whats-that-building-the-klas-re...
> In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Chicago was a powerful magnet attracting Eastern European immigrants. One of the most colorful remnants of that era sits at 5734 W. Cermak Road in Cicero. Currently closed and moldering, an organized effort is trying to save it, and possibly transition it into a memorable place for immigrants from all parts of the world.
> Klas Restaurant has been vacant since it closed about five years ago. From the street, an exuberant exterior of half timbers, carved stone, wooden shutters and metal spires is still an eye-catching presence.
And then Czech Plaza closed in late 2020, now dealing with the post-COVID restaurant landscape.
https://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=45872
> Czech Plaza has announced it is closing at the end of December 2020. Really a sad situation, they were done in by the pandemic. They were also not able to really get in on the outdoor dining thing in the summer because they lacked space and are located on busy Cermak Road. The owner of the building (not the owner of the restaurant) is trying to sell it. So we have lost both Little Bohemia and the Riverside Restaurant, both in Riverside over the past few years, as well of course as Klas.
> What's left? Well Bohemian Crystal in Westmont seems to be open, as well as the Westchester Inn, and the McCook Bohemian Restaurant. If anyone ventures to go to these, I would check first as restaurants seem to close abruptly sometimes, change hours or their menus, or they are only doing carry out business now, although some are defying the Governor's orders and allowing in house dining. There is also Cafe Prague, in the city, but it does not look like they have much Czech food on the menu. If anyone else knows of a Czech restaurant in Chicagoland, please post here. Some may say the Golden Pheasant in Elmhurst, and the Bavarian Lodge in Lisle but I'm not sure these are really on point for Czech Food.
I am assuming the aforementioned "Crystal Palace" is the "Bohemian Crystal", which is the other restaurant my family would go to if and only if Riverside was closed. However, it is currently for sale, so I guess get it while the gettin's good? :(
https://old.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/ktw7jp/czech_plaza...
> Back on August of 2020, Bohemian Crystal was listed for sale on Zillow. I just checked the link once again and found this info:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/639-Blackhawk-Dr-Westmont...
> Redevelopment opportunity directly across the street from the new FMC Natatorium at Ty Warner Park development. The existing 6,371 square foot free-standing building sits on 1.45 acres located just off the busy Ogden Ave commercial corridor with a traffic count of 32,000 vehicles per day. Currently operated as a successful restaurant with multiple dining rooms, large fully equipped kitchen and bar. The existing building sits on an expansive lot with 84 surface parking spots. Surrounded by high-end car dealerships including McGrath Acura/Lexus of Westmont, Laurel BMW of Westmont, Infiniti of Clarendon Hills, Audi Westmont, Mercedes-Benz of Westmont and Napleton Westmont Porsche. Across the street from Standard Market gourmet grocery store. Convenient access from both Kingery Highway (Rt 83) and the Tri-State Tollway (I-294). Perfect redevelopment opportunity. Land is being sold with existing restaurant and all the equipment and fixtures. DO NOT DISTURB EXISTING BUSINESS.
(early edit:) Oh... and it is now listed as "Contingent" (I did all of this research back in April); if it already was then I didn't know what that meant at the time, but if the new owner isn't intending to keep a similar restaurant running--which I presume is unlikely, as it was listed as a "redevelopment opportunity"--then the Bohemian Crystal is about to go on the pile of dead restaurants :(.
(later edit:) And now tptacek noted below that they have actually announced that they will be closing soon :(. I am adding a quote of that letter here, for completeness.
http://www.bohemiancrystal.net/
> Dear Customers,
> With huge regret we have to inform you that after 41 years in business we are closing our restaurant, Bohemian Crystal. Our last day will be Sunday October, 2nd.
> We would like to thank to all our customers for their long term loyalty and friendship.
> Please, come to visit us before the front doors of our restaurant will be closed for good.
> Your Bohemian Crystal Restaurant Team
For my dinner in April, I started having to dig more deeply, trying to find ones I hadn't heard of before, and it just got more depressing.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ChicagoSuburbs/comments/bs59oe/favo...
> I frequently visited Bohemian Crystal in Westmont. Never had a bad meal in the five years I ate there. Westchester Inn is also on the list of my favorites.
> Seems like these kind of restaurants are slowly dying in the Chicago area. Muldau's in Brookfield is closed along with Chauteau Rose and Klaus restaurants once located in Cicero.
So that leaves only the Westchester Inn, the Bohemian Crystal (for now), and McCook Bohemian Family Restaurant & Lounge. The former two are closed on Monday, and I happened to be in town on a Monday, so I tried to go to McCook... and there was a handwritten special sign on the door saying they were closed for the day :(.
I ended up finding a place a very short drive away from there on Yelp which shockingly sold fruit dumplings (and seemed to be a Czech place generally)... but the reason they were confusing was because they were a really a catering outfit which also sold some frozen food, not a restaurant where I could get something to eat.
The (Czech) owner there told me to go to McCook, as they should be open; but when I told her they were closed for the day she got this super defeated look on her face as she sighed "of course" and then started going on a sad rant about how all of the Czech restaurants were gone.
She listed the couple others I knew, noting they were closed on Monday, and then mentioned the existence a fourth one I didn't know of which was also closed on Monday and Tuesday (but she couldn't remember the name, so I don't know what it was).
(final edit:) That fourth restaurant is probably Cafe Prague, which was mentioned earlier in a quote as "in the city, but it does not look like they have much Czech food on the menu". I checked, and they are, in fact, closed on both Monday and Tuesday. FWIW, their "Czech Specialties" menu is complete enough? (They don't have fruit dumplings, though, which I personally find very sad.)
My (Polish) friend and I ended up going to... Texas Roadhouse :/.
But so, there are still a handful of places that might be open if it isn't Monday. It isn't, though, the vibrant community it once was, back when I would hear people say "Czech-ago" :(.
Well, this is an amazing comment that I didn't super enjoy reading. And it looks like Bohemian Crystal has announced their closing as well:
https://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=45872
LTH seems to think Westchester Inn is still going strong. I'll have to hit it up. I've been to Prague a couple times and remember enjoying the food (I need more rose hips in my diet).
https://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=45872
LTH seems to think Westchester Inn is still going strong. I'll have to hit it up. I've been to Prague a couple times and remember enjoying the food (I need more rose hips in my diet).
:( After posting, I re-checked that listing on Zillow--as I had done all of this research back in April--and saw it is now marked as "Contingent", but I hadn't thought to search to see if they had already announced anything. That's sad... I am now seriously considering flying out to Chicago next week to frequent there until they close.
The bottom of that thread also mentions Café Prague a lot... I realized that that was likely the fourth restaurant mentioned by the owner of the catering outfit (as the hours check out, being closed on both Monday and Tuesday). Their Czech menu is a subset of their full menu, but is way more complete than anywhere I have so far found in the US outside of Chicagoland and is frankly competitive with McCook.
So, I guess that means we are down to three remaining restaurants, with Westchester Inn being the only one that still has fruit dumplings (boiled, not fried), which I have found to be extremely difficult to find anywhere... I went to a town in Texas that is 90% Czech and, while people knew of and loved fruit dumplings, they didn't know of anywhere locally that had them :(. (I ended up not even managing to get Czech food in that town, due to conflicts with the opening hours.)
The bottom of that thread also mentions Café Prague a lot... I realized that that was likely the fourth restaurant mentioned by the owner of the catering outfit (as the hours check out, being closed on both Monday and Tuesday). Their Czech menu is a subset of their full menu, but is way more complete than anywhere I have so far found in the US outside of Chicagoland and is frankly competitive with McCook.
So, I guess that means we are down to three remaining restaurants, with Westchester Inn being the only one that still has fruit dumplings (boiled, not fried), which I have found to be extremely difficult to find anywhere... I went to a town in Texas that is 90% Czech and, while people knew of and loved fruit dumplings, they didn't know of anywhere locally that had them :(. (I ended up not even managing to get Czech food in that town, due to conflicts with the opening hours.)
> That said, it also isn't clear to me how money laundering can work if everyone suspects it at your business!
Did you report this suspicion to any authority? Your answer should be there.
Did you report this suspicion to any authority? Your answer should be there.
And proving it in court is hard work, and probably low down the list of attack surfaces your average organized crime syndicate has. Plus criminals are perfectly capable of running moderately-successful businesses and just inflating takings, and genuine restaurant owners are perfectly capable of running places that are only ever full at peak times and with bookings (or are on their way to bankruptcy)
Proving it in court becomes easier if you have more reports from patrons.
What report? I went to this restaurant and it wasn't busy? That is not a report, that is just conjecture. If a DA went to a judge with that as the evidence for a warrant, they'd be insulted and embarrassed by the judge.
It’s just conjecture but if there’s already an ongoing investigation it could help.
You can report stuff to the FBI and they will ignore most of it.
You can report stuff to the FBI and they will ignore most of it.
The FBI really doesn't want your garbage reports about random restaurants unless there's actual evidence of a federal crime. They're overworked as it is.
Good luck trying to convict people of serious crime based on a handful of people testifying they visited a restaurant and it was empty!
Yet this is merely presumed, stated as fact. You may be right, yet...
Right or wrong, such reasoning means that you and others wave away reporting. And without any indication anything is wrong, the police may never know, never investigate.
Thus, the abridgement of process means failure is guaranteed.
Right or wrong, such reasoning means that you and others wave away reporting. And without any indication anything is wrong, the police may never know, never investigate.
Thus, the abridgement of process means failure is guaranteed.
> That said, it also isn't clear to me how money laundering can work if everyone suspects it at your business!
You know, I've never had one of those microwave Velveeta Mac and Cheese cups. But I bet they're pretty good, in terms of guilty pleasures.
Not that I don't want authentic meals and experiences of course.
You know, I've never had one of those microwave Velveeta Mac and Cheese cups. But I bet they're pretty good, in terms of guilty pleasures.
Not that I don't want authentic meals and experiences of course.
This is one of the funniest things I’ve read on HN in a long time, thank you!
This article is interesting not just because the particular businesses it explores via stories, but because of its broader message to entrepreneurs about the importance of understanding your customers' business models if you want to succeed. Many engineering-focused founders struggle with this part. If you want to actually sell the thing you built (food ordering kiosks in the author's case), you have to align the value proposition with the customer's business model and incentives. This business model and incentive structure might not be what you initially think.
Several large heroin deals went down in London in the early 70s. Tremendously profitable shipments were flowing from Afghanistan. So much so that one of the main problems was laundering those profits. Dozens of restaurants were sustained in Brick Lane by this “custom”, far more restaurants than there were legitimate diners for. After the money-flow dried up, many of them struggled and there were closures. They weren’t sustainable. Only the better ones survived.
If i recall correctly London is the money laundering capital of the planet. So this sounds right up their business alley.
It's American Candy shops now. Allegedly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61777445
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61777445
Was recently in the UK and found it very odd just how many of these places there were.
Was that article written by an AI? It was shockingly difficult to read and had a very oddly stilted to the text. Some of the sentences didn’t even seem like actually full sentences.
Unfortunately the BBC has gone dramatically down hill, mostly blogspam now.
Have a search for the original investigative piece done by Private Eye. The rest of the reports on this are somewhat lazy copies of their original work.
Found it: https://www.reddit.com/r/london/comments/cnkcaz/private_eye_...
Will give it a read...
Will give it a read...
> … differentiation strategy of ‘enlightened hospitality’ through a synergistic set of human resource management practices involving three key practices: selection of employees based on emotional capabilities, respectful treatment of employees, and management through a simple set of rules that stimulate complex and intricate behaviours benefiting customers.
So, hire nice people, be fair to them and encourage everybody to treat the customers fairly and kindly?
Maybe just being a good person is good for business?
So, hire nice people, be fair to them and encourage everybody to treat the customers fairly and kindly?
Maybe just being a good person is good for business?
The OP also explains (partly here and partly in a previous post, linked in the story) how this is not a good strategy for most other restaurants which do not have a wide range of locations, from fast food to fine dining.
This exactly.
In fact, this is an article in of itself. With most jobs, employers are heavily incentivized to not make them incredibly enjoyable.
Everyone complains about their employers. Especially in technology.
However, tons of businesses emphatically do not have an incentive to create happy, enjoyable workplaces for their employees.
In fact, this is an article in of itself. With most jobs, employers are heavily incentivized to not make them incredibly enjoyable.
Everyone complains about their employers. Especially in technology.
However, tons of businesses emphatically do not have an incentive to create happy, enjoyable workplaces for their employees.
> ... encourage everybody to treat the customers fairly and kindly?
Do you believe that is an accurate summary of "management through a simple set of rules that stimulate complex and intricate behaviours benefiting customers"?
The customers in the story had experience that were more than fair and kind. In fact, they are quite remarkable interactions. And the repeatability of remarkableness is not easy.
Do you believe that is an accurate summary of "management through a simple set of rules that stimulate complex and intricate behaviours benefiting customers"?
The customers in the story had experience that were more than fair and kind. In fact, they are quite remarkable interactions. And the repeatability of remarkableness is not easy.
> just being a good person
You say it like this is something well-defined and easily achievable, but I am not sure it is.
You say it like this is something well-defined and easily achievable, but I am not sure it is.
Easily achievable, certainly not. Well defined, possibly.
Morals and ethics. Things which were heavily taught in earlier times, and which now have been replaced by STEM.
Someone is going to squwak that morals and ethics have been debated for millenium, thus certainly NOT well defined.
response: nice STEM thinking, which assumes a mathematical definition of "defined".
VS a morals and ethics definition, which says "here are the points of variance which go into moral decision making." Where a "definition" is not an answer, it is a framing of the debate.
Because moral decisions are always tradeoffs along different dimensions. And moral reasoning is about making judgement calls under uncertainty.
Morals and ethics. Things which were heavily taught in earlier times, and which now have been replaced by STEM.
Someone is going to squwak that morals and ethics have been debated for millenium, thus certainly NOT well defined.
response: nice STEM thinking, which assumes a mathematical definition of "defined".
VS a morals and ethics definition, which says "here are the points of variance which go into moral decision making." Where a "definition" is not an answer, it is a framing of the debate.
Because moral decisions are always tradeoffs along different dimensions. And moral reasoning is about making judgement calls under uncertainty.
Moral philosophy, in practice, is not about finding the right answer but justifying the gut reaction of the practitioner. The utility of moral education wasn't to come up with better decisions, but to explain to young boys (or maybe girls, if they were educated) why the rules exist.
>Replaced by STEM
I cannot let this go because my Engineering undergrad is the one place I encountered a decent course on ethics; studying the subject is necessary for licensure. We didn't displace ethics, Philosophy departments got lost in their own rhetorical devices and don't talk about the 'how then should we live?' question enough to interest the general public.
I cannot let this go because my Engineering undergrad is the one place I encountered a decent course on ethics; studying the subject is necessary for licensure. We didn't displace ethics, Philosophy departments got lost in their own rhetorical devices and don't talk about the 'how then should we live?' question enough to interest the general public.
Nah, that you would be weird in a service oriented industry.
Very cool piece, one of the most interesting I've read on HN recently. As someone building their first starup in a completely different category (fintech for Africa), many of the high-tier lessons about SOPs still made me think.
So much talk of incentives and no explanation of the incentive to make only their second blog post in the series free. ;)
The Gramercy Tavern beetle story makes me wonder about this. If you provided unified customer experience in some contexts it's cool. In others, it's creepy. Even if the actual act hasn't changed.
I wonder what separates the two.
I wonder what separates the two.
> I wonder what separates the two.
Self mockery, I guess. If you're a fancy restaurant, it implies that you are high end but not arrogant enough to ignore your own mistakes. So, it conveys the message that you are always willing the best for your customers.
Self mockery, I guess. If you're a fancy restaurant, it implies that you are high end but not arrogant enough to ignore your own mistakes. So, it conveys the message that you are always willing the best for your customers.
It comes down to whether the experience is desired or not.
When multiple people recognize and respond to you, it is a sign of fame and respect. People generally like to be well-known and respected, so this coordination is appreciated.
When a machine recognizes and responds to you, it is often not a sign of respect but a sign of exploitation. I think it's kinda useful when I see relevant ads on a website based on my recent browsing. But I might feel differently if I spent 8 hours a day driving wherever a computer told me to go or cooking whatever a computer told me to cook.
When multiple people recognize and respond to you, it is a sign of fame and respect. People generally like to be well-known and respected, so this coordination is appreciated.
When a machine recognizes and responds to you, it is often not a sign of respect but a sign of exploitation. I think it's kinda useful when I see relevant ads on a website based on my recent browsing. But I might feel differently if I spent 8 hours a day driving wherever a computer told me to go or cooking whatever a computer told me to cook.
Mh... I've read few articles here and there that essentially, in the more or less explicit background say "cash are a source of evil" while e-cashes might be an answer.
I counter with a simple note: what about a LEGIT company who is just a branch of a parent company in another State, something let's say like a P.O. box in Delaware, a thing perfectly legal there, and the branch company have to pay much service to the mother company ending every year in red or nearly red and so paying no local taxes but still get allowed to remain in business? That's happen ALL by electronic money, officially transferred, officially formally billed according to the laws.
On contrary let's say we only tax the net, so we want to document any expense, even the smallest one, what do you think in this scenario?
I counter with a simple note: what about a LEGIT company who is just a branch of a parent company in another State, something let's say like a P.O. box in Delaware, a thing perfectly legal there, and the branch company have to pay much service to the mother company ending every year in red or nearly red and so paying no local taxes but still get allowed to remain in business? That's happen ALL by electronic money, officially transferred, officially formally billed according to the laws.
On contrary let's say we only tax the net, so we want to document any expense, even the smallest one, what do you think in this scenario?
I don't understand how money laundering works in the anecdote at the beginning. I guess you can launder some money that way, but how efficient is it?
The business records a high number of sales (or high value sales) and hence dirty money can be used as clean incoming money.
The high staff numbers indicate either a) staff can accumulate and no-one is really bothered because the normal economics don't apply, or b) more staff implies a bigger business (to anyone looking at the books), which means more money can be laundered without raising suspicion. Efficiency just depends on how much cash you can imply this coffee shop makes, so more staff is a good thing.
The high staff numbers indicate either a) staff can accumulate and no-one is really bothered because the normal economics don't apply, or b) more staff implies a bigger business (to anyone looking at the books), which means more money can be laundered without raising suspicion. Efficiency just depends on how much cash you can imply this coffee shop makes, so more staff is a good thing.
There is something I don't understand: If you pretend do have a lot of customers (to feed illegal income into pretend purchases), why not also pretend to have a lot of employees? At least they don't need to be present, since this seems to be what make people suspicious.
I'm just guessing, but if someone does decide to investigate your business I assume they'll start by checking the people in it. If they find you've faked employment records then the gig will be up pretty quickly. Employing people keeps the facade up in the same way as actually serving food and drinks.
I suppose if your "other" side of the business has people working for it, then it's not going to change the financials much to have them on the books of the restaurant.
I suppose if your "other" side of the business has people working for it, then it's not going to change the financials much to have them on the books of the restaurant.
Because employees have easily checkable social security numbers.
You also hire family members of your “ real employees “ so that they have legitimate income also.
I imagine this way you can launder on the order of 10-100k dollars/month? With 30-40% payed for taxes and employees?
Some number of the staff may also be from the “questionable” side of the business. They don’t have to do any actual restaurant work but will get some clean income as part of their total compensation. So the laundering happens at more than one level and could be more efficient overall than at first glance.
So talking about incentives.
Efficient money laundering will get you caught. Incentive is not to get caught and not having all the money seized.
Efficient money laundering will get you caught. Incentive is not to get caught and not having all the money seized.
Nice. I love how you stress the long-term compound efficiency goal ("don't get caught") vs the short term efficiency goal ("pay as little as possible").
Which also comes back to early comments about "treat your employees well", which incurs a higher up-front cost to generate a massive long-term payout.
Also see comment on ML efficiency rates, yes, 30-40% hit to get the money clean is a lot better than no money plus jail. One of the reason black market goods are expensive is because the costs of doing business are so high. You pay 40% or higher money laundering "tax" to avoid paying tax.
Which also comes back to early comments about "treat your employees well", which incurs a higher up-front cost to generate a massive long-term payout.
Also see comment on ML efficiency rates, yes, 30-40% hit to get the money clean is a lot better than no money plus jail. One of the reason black market goods are expensive is because the costs of doing business are so high. You pay 40% or higher money laundering "tax" to avoid paying tax.
Does this "30-40% hit" includes taxes already? Because that's the whole point of ML, right? Pretending that money came from legal sources means paying income taxes on them. Your last sentence is confusing in that regard.
That 30-40% is pulled from an earlier comment on the thread. I'm not actually a professional money launderer, nor do I rely on their services, so I cannot give factual current rates.
But to clarify, I meant the 30-40% as a total cost, i.e. I put in 100 dirty dollars and take out 60 clean. You are correct that an income tax would then apply.
If instead I kept the 100 as cash, I could spend the 100, and not pay any income tax.
Staying all cash probably works at the 100 level. Becomes dicey at the 100K level.
But to clarify, I meant the 30-40% as a total cost, i.e. I put in 100 dirty dollars and take out 60 clean. You are correct that an income tax would then apply.
If instead I kept the 100 as cash, I could spend the 100, and not pay any income tax.
Staying all cash probably works at the 100 level. Becomes dicey at the 100K level.
I found those stories of "enlightened hospitality" creepy and presumptuous. Don't eavesdrop on my conversations and respect my choices. Are you suggesting my opinions on expensive wine are sour grapes? I didn't want wine or salad. God, I'm happy I don't live in a country where waiters are forced to be a hyper-social adult circus clown to compete for tips.
There’s an article [1] from Ricky Gervais where he compares British and US culture/humor.
At the end he says:
> ‘for the record I’d rather a waiter say, “Have a nice day” and not mean it, than ignore me and mean it.‘
[1] https://time.com/3720218/difference-between-american-british...
At the end he says:
> ‘for the record I’d rather a waiter say, “Have a nice day” and not mean it, than ignore me and mean it.‘
[1] https://time.com/3720218/difference-between-american-british...
If you see restaurants as a place to get food, then you're right. If you visit a place to have a remarkable experience, you might enjoy this kind of attention.
Not saying either perspective is wrong. Just that there's some nuance.
Not saying either perspective is wrong. Just that there's some nuance.
I legitimately wonder how much of the restaurant culture in the US comes from the fact you can't just go to a brothel or a BDSM dungeon to get your "remarkable experience" outside of Nevada
I live in Berlin and I’m not from the USA. I prefer restaurants with this “US hospitality” or something close. Sadly, lots of people in this city seem to pride themselves in “kind not nice”. There is nothing that says both can’t exist :shrug:
[deleted]
Berlin has both. Must be something else. https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/berlin-region/berlin/restau...
Are being fed a wonderful meal and engaging in sexualized power play interchangeable experience for you?
No, but the treatment I get in Italy vs. in North America is very different, and the utter subservience the North American restaurant culture seems to require reminds me more of powerplays than of focus on food.
Also, Hooters originated in the US. Make of that what you will
Also, Hooters originated in the US. Make of that what you will
The exact opposite feeling here. The indifference and often not particularly great service in europe is dissappointing and can easily mar an evening.
Good service in North America heightens the whole dinner experience.
Incentives are everything.
Good service in North America heightens the whole dinner experience.
Incentives are everything.
I agree, incentives are everything. That's why I don't want every restaurant to turn into classy hooters—yes, tipping strongly selects for attractive people, especially young women. It's so hard to shake the feeling of insincerity, for the very reason that I'm aware of the incentives. Are we all so lacking in affection we need people to butter us up for money?
[deleted]
> providing excellent service in the F&B business works against the structure of the industry.
I tried to look at the preceeding article mentioned to go deeper on this but it is paywalled. I can't say for sure but this article has wiffs of the quasi-mysticism that surrounds F&B worship of successful professional F&B proprietors. And I'm getting a touch of the worst brand yet which is mixing F&B business metaphorically with startup brain.
So for example, almost all of these articles will talk about how some "culture" is "different". They'll enumerate all the quirky training processes that "bond" the teams together.
But in the end there are a few realities. Most people that have very professional service in F&B pay them more and give them better benefits. They can afford this because they work in niches of F&B service that allow for higher margins. Unless you can move your operations into something higher margin, you can't afford these pay and benefits. And if you do, someone else will fill your low margin hole and end up asking themselves the same questions. Namely, why do my employees hate me? I exploit them. Why do I exploit them? The margins demand it.
The other and much more insidious way that F&B luminaries provide superior service is by exploiting professionalized workers' egos. Essentially, working in a fancy restaurant is very clouty. A lot of people end up working in cutting edge or high end F&B while still earning very marginally improved wages because they believe in the place they work. In my opinion this is not good. This is asking people to start making real personal sacrifices for something they will never actually own, something that will give them nothing the day it slides from under their feet.
The vast majority of F&B is so low margin that I actually think the only conceivable way to pay people a livable wage, outside of high margin niches, is to be unrpofitble. Essentially, you have to distribute the profits to the workers. And the problem here becomes that scale is often the only way to secure yourself in the industry, yet getting capital invested into your explicitly profitless venture is unlikely.
I really wish I could read the other article because maybe I'm preaching to the choir but in the end I'd say, be very cautious about glorify anyone in the F&B business.
I tried to look at the preceeding article mentioned to go deeper on this but it is paywalled. I can't say for sure but this article has wiffs of the quasi-mysticism that surrounds F&B worship of successful professional F&B proprietors. And I'm getting a touch of the worst brand yet which is mixing F&B business metaphorically with startup brain.
So for example, almost all of these articles will talk about how some "culture" is "different". They'll enumerate all the quirky training processes that "bond" the teams together.
But in the end there are a few realities. Most people that have very professional service in F&B pay them more and give them better benefits. They can afford this because they work in niches of F&B service that allow for higher margins. Unless you can move your operations into something higher margin, you can't afford these pay and benefits. And if you do, someone else will fill your low margin hole and end up asking themselves the same questions. Namely, why do my employees hate me? I exploit them. Why do I exploit them? The margins demand it.
The other and much more insidious way that F&B luminaries provide superior service is by exploiting professionalized workers' egos. Essentially, working in a fancy restaurant is very clouty. A lot of people end up working in cutting edge or high end F&B while still earning very marginally improved wages because they believe in the place they work. In my opinion this is not good. This is asking people to start making real personal sacrifices for something they will never actually own, something that will give them nothing the day it slides from under their feet.
The vast majority of F&B is so low margin that I actually think the only conceivable way to pay people a livable wage, outside of high margin niches, is to be unrpofitble. Essentially, you have to distribute the profits to the workers. And the problem here becomes that scale is often the only way to secure yourself in the industry, yet getting capital invested into your explicitly profitless venture is unlikely.
I really wish I could read the other article because maybe I'm preaching to the choir but in the end I'd say, be very cautious about glorify anyone in the F&B business.
Yes, rest assured the previous article talks about exactly this. (I mean, the title of this piece should give you a hint: “Pay attention to deviations from mainstream incentives” because the mainstream incentives in F&B are just so, so bad.)
I dont get how having idle staff helps launder money? Presumably the scheme works by adding fake transactions to the books.
It could be a way of giving 'legitimate' income to friends/family/conspirators.
But why do they have to be there? Couldnt you just pay them the salary anyway?
Beats me, maybe they have nothing better to do.
Excellent piece. Definitely a better than average think piece site too. Cheers to exolymph.
These days it feels like almost every major business is a government, bank or drug money laundering operation at its core... What they say is their main business is actually just the front for the operation. The cash cow is money laundering.
This essay is really incoherent. What is the point of the money-laundering anecdote at the beginning?
Subscription bait warning, the very next clarifying part is behind paywall. These trickle artists are no better than free to play.
While the article functions as an ad for a paid subscription, it contains more than enough substance in itself that bait is not an appropriate description.
Casual HN readers get a very interesting article without banner ads or paywall. People who are interested in more related content are encouraged to pay for a subscription. I don't see much wrong with that.
Much like HN itself.
How do I pay for more related content from Hacker News?
You move to San Fransisco and pretend you are better than everyone else and can solve all the worlds problems.
Fascinating article!
A long time ago, I went to a Czech restaurant in San Francisco (I am always interested in finding Czech food, as it is somewhat rare in the US anywhere but where I'm originally from: near Chicago, aka Czech-ago ;P). The food my friend got seemed to be literally microwaved (he said half of it was very cold while the other half of it was very hot), and they were entirely out of at least fruit dumplings I remember for sure but I also think there were a couple other things missing. I definitely remember someone commenting that it felt a bit like a money laundering scheme more so than a restaurant.
Years later (still a while ago... maybe a decade?) I was again in San Francisco, and I went to the same restaurant--I mean, at least it is Czech food, right?! ;P--and now it was in a different much fancier dining area (though I also remember being somewhat difficult to find and sort of almost in a basement; it was just furnished almost ridiculously fancy). I was the only person there, however. This time, their menu didn't have a bunch of options they could be out of: they had exactly three dishes.
There was, however, multiple wait staff at the restaurant, all just kind of doing nothing. I ordered a goulash I think, and it was OK. I mean, I was coming into this expecting it might just be them microwaving frozen scoops of food, and didn't care as, again, "at least it is Czech food". It was tasty enough that I went back the next day for the svickova.
Again, no one was there. They also seemed so confused by how I was there. Now twice in a row. Ordering food off of their menu of only three options ;P. At the end of the dinner, I asked them "do you ever have... fruit dumplings?" and suddenly the guy--who maybe thought I was a cop casing the joint ;P--suddenly had a realization: "are you... Czech?!".
I did not return for a third day ;P. I remember checking and a number of the reviews on whatever review site I was using at this point were also people who stumbled into this restaurant and started to think "how is this even a restaurant? are we sure this isn't a money laundering front?!". That said, it also isn't clear to me how money laundering can work if everyone suspects it at your business!