Ask HN: I'm considering taking a break from startups to join big tech
I know this decision may not be popular around here, but I think the quality of advice that I'll get is good, so I'm going to ask for it. I'm a very talented programmer, started coding in 5th grade, and worked at top research teams at Facebook + Google immediately out of college. However, a combination of bad projects + not so great management made take the plunge to pursue my dream - startups. After around 3 years of trying different ideas (went through maybe 5+ different co-founding teams, applied to YC in the past, etc.) + last year finally getting traction on a project, I'm starting to feel not so happy with my current route. I've done consulting in between here or there to pay the bills, but now my savings is literally starting to reach empty and I just hit 27 years old with no girlfriend/dating life. I have some friends that somehow are just able to keep pushing through and not giving up, but I feel like that's not me at this moment. Any suggestions/thoughts?
31 comments
I have no advice, but I want to wish good luck with the change if you decide to make it [1].
I'm not sure if this is so unpopular here. Hey! I work in a free public university, that is probably the most different place than a startup (at least form size and the income sources point of view).
Just in case it's useful, this is an old post by patio11 when he transitioned from working in consulting+startup to working in Stripe "I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas" https://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/09/09/im-joining-stripe-to-wo... (HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12464647 850 points | on Sept 9, 2016 | 330 comments)
[1] Edit: And good luck if you decide to not make the change, too.
I'm not sure if this is so unpopular here. Hey! I work in a free public university, that is probably the most different place than a startup (at least form size and the income sources point of view).
Just in case it's useful, this is an old post by patio11 when he transitioned from working in consulting+startup to working in Stripe "I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas" https://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/09/09/im-joining-stripe-to-wo... (HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12464647 850 points | on Sept 9, 2016 | 330 comments)
[1] Edit: And good luck if you decide to not make the change, too.
I just read his post; thanks for sharing!
I've switched between startups and Big Tech multiple times. I worked for startups before and after college, left to found my own, ended up at a FAANG, quit to found more startups, and then went back to my previous employer. I was effectively financially independent (went back with more savings than I started with, after 6 year with no income), but I burned myself out. It's been almost 3 years since the last startup, during which I've written very little code (I've been an architect and then a manager), and I'm only just starting to enjoy coding again.
To me, the biggest red flag in your post is "I'm starting to feel not so happy with my current route". I had started to feel like my startup ideas had run their course around 3 years in, but I doubled down on a complicated one because I can be hella persistent and kept it going for another 3 years. Big mistake. When your feelings start telling you it's time to throw in the towel, it's time to throw in the towel. I don't regret leaving the security of a big company to play the startup game, but I do regret sticking with it for so long, even when evidence had mounted that the market had turned and there wasn't really an opportunity there.
To me, the biggest red flag in your post is "I'm starting to feel not so happy with my current route". I had started to feel like my startup ideas had run their course around 3 years in, but I doubled down on a complicated one because I can be hella persistent and kept it going for another 3 years. Big mistake. When your feelings start telling you it's time to throw in the towel, it's time to throw in the towel. I don't regret leaving the security of a big company to play the startup game, but I do regret sticking with it for so long, even when evidence had mounted that the market had turned and there wasn't really an opportunity there.
Yeah, I think you're right about burn out. It's starting to feel more like work/effort and not enjoyable.
I just went back to working for the man after a couple years of burning savings trying to make a bootstrapped startup work. It's not as exciting but it's such an incredible stress relief. I do work... and they pay me for it. What a concept!
Whatever you do don't burn yourself out. Make sure you're doing what makes you happy, and not what you feel like you "have" to do for one reason or another
>>> Whatever you do don't burn yourself out.
I will +1 this point a million times. I worked on a job I hated (just because there was less work), and pushed about 6 to 8 hours everyday towards my side-project and did that for a good 15 months, only to scrap it 5 months after launching it. The side-project couldn't be monetized and I had to call it off.
In those 15 months, I almost ruined my family time, turned down a lot of vacation trips and other plans, and overworked myself. I wouldn't say it's because of my side-project but it was technically because I was pushing it along with a full-time job. Maybe you could get it to work if you're just out of college and not in any relationships, but to someone who has a family, it seemed to me that it ain't worth it.
I will +1 this point a million times. I worked on a job I hated (just because there was less work), and pushed about 6 to 8 hours everyday towards my side-project and did that for a good 15 months, only to scrap it 5 months after launching it. The side-project couldn't be monetized and I had to call it off.
In those 15 months, I almost ruined my family time, turned down a lot of vacation trips and other plans, and overworked myself. I wouldn't say it's because of my side-project but it was technically because I was pushing it along with a full-time job. Maybe you could get it to work if you're just out of college and not in any relationships, but to someone who has a family, it seemed to me that it ain't worth it.
Brilliant insight. I've always heard this advice, and recognize how difficult it is to follow, so I'll be sure to keep this in mind.
It's worthwhile to have some degree of financial stability. It lets you weather other problems with some equanimity. Do it. You'll have time later.
Fwiw though, the only times I ever considered this was when I was upset at my life at a startup. I'm now happy at another startup. So this is a little of do as I say not as I do. But there's no harm in 2 years of big tech. It might blunt your edge a bit but burnout will do that worse.
Fwiw though, the only times I ever considered this was when I was upset at my life at a startup. I'm now happy at another startup. So this is a little of do as I say not as I do. But there's no harm in 2 years of big tech. It might blunt your edge a bit but burnout will do that worse.
How do you reason about the pay decrease joining a startup vs. joining a high paying small company or big company?
I thought about it poorly initially. I modeled it simply as pay drop for a learning period with greater exposure to the whole thing (I tried building out one arm of a company). In my case, I should have just founded at the time.
A close friend of mine actually helped. The short form is: I'm in my mid-30s, so the majority of my compensation and wealth is still in my future so long as I can keep the engine running. So I optimize to keep the engine running. Some time that may be a couple of years in big tech so you have the amount of money that removes financial anxiety from your life. The rest of the time that may be years in startups because big tech is a low productivity environment.
This may be different for you, but I don't want to stop working so so long as macro stuff stays sane, I will probably be doing things into my 60s. That means that endurance is more important than power.
A close friend of mine actually helped. The short form is: I'm in my mid-30s, so the majority of my compensation and wealth is still in my future so long as I can keep the engine running. So I optimize to keep the engine running. Some time that may be a couple of years in big tech so you have the amount of money that removes financial anxiety from your life. The rest of the time that may be years in startups because big tech is a low productivity environment.
This may be different for you, but I don't want to stop working so so long as macro stuff stays sane, I will probably be doing things into my 60s. That means that endurance is more important than power.
If you really believe in that startup and did a lot of research that suggests that the startup will boom and grow as much as you think it would, it is worth accepting the lower pay. On another note, a high paying company is always the same, it is basically a stable job without much adventures or financial upside in terms of stocks.
I also spent a lot of my 20s coding for FAANG and while I am able to retire at 35, once I met my future wife and had kids I realized just how empty my life was with just work. There’s a lot of lies we tell ourselves to settle with a hobby or piece of work that causes us to miss out of the real riches of life.
Very insightful. Would you say it's worthwhile to not settle when it comes to work/hobby then? What would you recommend in my shoes?
I would try to game plan meeting new people by increasing your exposure to new groups and activities, come up with a list of short and long term goals and action items. I started ramping with meetups I found online.
I'd say go for it. Work is work... There's good and bad parts about any job. Yes I do have to spend much more time on non engineering stuff, but on the flip side I enjoy working on things that millions of people use every day which is cool. The pay, stability, and growth opportunities are all great.
If you really truly want to look at it through a startup lens, there is a LOT you can learn in big tech, you will improve your skills, grow as a person, be able to have a personal life (except if you go with Amazon) and get paid a shitload of money to do it. It is an incredibly sweet deal.
I'm the opposite right now. I had a startup then joined FAANG. Spent the last 8yr in product at Google + Coinbase, and now I have the startup itch more than ever before. Maybe the grass is always greener.
What is it about your current route that is leaving you unhappy?
What is it about your current route that is leaving you unhappy?
I've done a lot of side projects and worked with a lot of businesses, so I'm starting to get a little jaded about how difficult it is to create or figure out what people want. I'm now realizing I could very easily spend another 8+ months and still not end up with a decent product.
Nothing wrong with working at big tech. Nothing has to be forever. Get some stability and then focus on your personal life. A job is one dimension of your life, but most humans are multidimensional. Life is meant to be lived, try and relish a diverse set of experiences. It will reinforce the other dimensions.
great idea. take some time and let work be your source of income and not your entire life. you won't get a do-over of your 20s. whatever you decide to pursue, inquire thoroughly about work/life balance. you can always go back to the startup grind later.
Yes, excellent point. Having built side projects and provided consulting for more than eight startups, I've grown somewhat weary of the never-ending pivots, dead ends, etc.
I haven't had a girlfriend in ages and have been living like a college student for way too long.
I haven't had a girlfriend in ages and have been living like a college student for way too long.
If you are going to join a big tech company but still have interest in startups on the side, consider doing it from a state that has strong IP/Noncompete protections for employees, such as California.
Sound decision, many startups have at best 20 months of runway (or should) and will find it challenging (as in not able to raise anymore money) if the rate rises continue in to 2023 (very strong possibility)
Get that bag dude.
Yeah, I never would've imagined myself thinking this way, but I think you're right.
Do it. Startups aren’t doing much interesting these days, the big guys absolutely are.
What a fantastic realization. Concentrating on the fundamentals— which projects, teams, etc are most interesting.
That may be a little too harsh. I will say for me that startups are not able to provide the work experiences I’m interested in due to their size
I'm in similar situation, 26 y/o. I have worked on a product for 3 years after high school (I attended university briefly twice and dropped out), that time I was lucky to be funded by my parents. At 22 (2018) I pulled the plug on it after failing to get initial traction (although looking back there were many mistakes and I keep thinking, what if I did that different and that different etc.). Following that I got into freelancing and lived a normal life for 2 years, I moved out of my parents'.
Then 2 years later the pandemic happened - I moved back to my parents' since there was nothing to do in the city anyway. I picked up where I left off with that previous product idea and even consider trying it again. I only started because I thought I would be ready to re-launch it by the end of the year, but that did not work out. I actually started rewriting the product from scratch and with that I came upon a related, but a different idea which I think it could actually have a shot.
Again, underestimating the effort, I spent the entire 2021 working on it 30h/week, living cheap at my parents' only to get a very crude prototype and brutal realization in 2022 that I need at least some good 3,000h more, if not 4,000 to launch it. I decided I need to make some space for my life, but first I've had to change my job / freelancing gig, which worked ok to self-fund myself living low, but does not make sense at all for earning decent salary (decent for the industry) and making some savings to possibly bootstrap future efforts. I took as much work as I could for the first half of this year, so now I can work full-time for a few months on an open source project to boost my resume, then looking to get a full time job in 2023 and I'm out.
As for the product I was working on, I did not write it off completely, I still consider I could have a shot to launch it without major life sacrifices (at least for the most part), but it depends on how much money I would make at the new job (I live in a relatively low cost of living area, aiming to get a job at a richer country), but the launch date would be somewhere in 2026, it just feels like too much - I'm afraid the market may shrink severely in the next 5 - 10 years. I have a new more-long term idea which I think is timeless and does not depend on a particular market as much as that one, so my plan as of now is to work the day job for 5 - 6 years, gather as much savings possible, enjoy life a bit more and then quit and hit hard on that other idea (if it's still relevant). Meanwhile I consider developing a small open source project to fill the void of not owning something, I still plan to do some work in that time and keep sharp.
Having said that, I think it's a big dilemma in general because in the 20s we want to have time to enjoy life, but the 20s are also like the most likely time window when one can plant the seeds to gain financial independence for life. I imagine it will be much harder later, as responsibilities grow, maybe some health problems, maybe having a kid unexpectedly, energy decline. I realize that me saying "I will take a 6 year break" may have the second order consequence of never doing actually doing it. That's why I said I still want to do plenty of work and maybe work on an open source project, to not fall out of the game completely. Nevertheless, I can't neglect some things in my personal life either. I can't help but think that I flushed a big chunk of my 20s in the toilet and I need to fix it asap.
Then 2 years later the pandemic happened - I moved back to my parents' since there was nothing to do in the city anyway. I picked up where I left off with that previous product idea and even consider trying it again. I only started because I thought I would be ready to re-launch it by the end of the year, but that did not work out. I actually started rewriting the product from scratch and with that I came upon a related, but a different idea which I think it could actually have a shot.
Again, underestimating the effort, I spent the entire 2021 working on it 30h/week, living cheap at my parents' only to get a very crude prototype and brutal realization in 2022 that I need at least some good 3,000h more, if not 4,000 to launch it. I decided I need to make some space for my life, but first I've had to change my job / freelancing gig, which worked ok to self-fund myself living low, but does not make sense at all for earning decent salary (decent for the industry) and making some savings to possibly bootstrap future efforts. I took as much work as I could for the first half of this year, so now I can work full-time for a few months on an open source project to boost my resume, then looking to get a full time job in 2023 and I'm out.
As for the product I was working on, I did not write it off completely, I still consider I could have a shot to launch it without major life sacrifices (at least for the most part), but it depends on how much money I would make at the new job (I live in a relatively low cost of living area, aiming to get a job at a richer country), but the launch date would be somewhere in 2026, it just feels like too much - I'm afraid the market may shrink severely in the next 5 - 10 years. I have a new more-long term idea which I think is timeless and does not depend on a particular market as much as that one, so my plan as of now is to work the day job for 5 - 6 years, gather as much savings possible, enjoy life a bit more and then quit and hit hard on that other idea (if it's still relevant). Meanwhile I consider developing a small open source project to fill the void of not owning something, I still plan to do some work in that time and keep sharp.
Having said that, I think it's a big dilemma in general because in the 20s we want to have time to enjoy life, but the 20s are also like the most likely time window when one can plant the seeds to gain financial independence for life. I imagine it will be much harder later, as responsibilities grow, maybe some health problems, maybe having a kid unexpectedly, energy decline. I realize that me saying "I will take a 6 year break" may have the second order consequence of never doing actually doing it. That's why I said I still want to do plenty of work and maybe work on an open source project, to not fall out of the game completely. Nevertheless, I can't neglect some things in my personal life either. I can't help but think that I flushed a big chunk of my 20s in the toilet and I need to fix it asap.