Museums on prescription: Brussels tests cultural visits to treat anxiety(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
Museums on prescription: Brussels tests cultural visits to treat anxiety
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/17/museums-on-prescription-brussels-tests-cultural-visits-to-treat-anxiety
65 comments
For anxiety “getting yourself out there” can literally be the entire issue in the case of agoraphobia, and the reason you see a doctor.
I don’t see this law as trivializing the treatment of anxiety, I’ve seen it be treated across multiple patients over a course of a quarter century and I would say probably “get yourself out there” was the most common treatment option used across many visits because being housebound tends to make the anxiety issues people are worried about enough to go to the doctor about worse.
I’ve also generally seen practices like children and dependant adults with autism (who usually have comorbid anxiety) getting guided through all manner of public places with social workers and guided to do various tasks and a huge objective of such efforts is to soothe any anxiety issues in such exchanges. I’ve seen quite a lot of this actually at significant public expense.
In any case if you read between the lines this story essentially means people with anxiety can go to the museum for free and that’s probably a positive development since we want to remove any potential barriers to the anxious getting out of the house (poverty is another anxiety comorbidity).
I don’t see this law as trivializing the treatment of anxiety, I’ve seen it be treated across multiple patients over a course of a quarter century and I would say probably “get yourself out there” was the most common treatment option used across many visits because being housebound tends to make the anxiety issues people are worried about enough to go to the doctor about worse.
I’ve also generally seen practices like children and dependant adults with autism (who usually have comorbid anxiety) getting guided through all manner of public places with social workers and guided to do various tasks and a huge objective of such efforts is to soothe any anxiety issues in such exchanges. I’ve seen quite a lot of this actually at significant public expense.
In any case if you read between the lines this story essentially means people with anxiety can go to the museum for free and that’s probably a positive development since we want to remove any potential barriers to the anxious getting out of the house (poverty is another anxiety comorbidity).
> should not be legislated without consulting medical professionals
I don't understand what you are on about. This is an option. Nobody forces people to participate. Nobody forces the medical professionals to prescribe it. Nobody even forces the medical professionals to consider it in any case.
> If you're feeling depressed enough to see a doctor, a free museum visit is unlikely to do anything for you.
Yes. The first sentence on the page: "Brussels tests cultural visits to treat anxiety". So we are talking about anxiety here and not depression. The second sentence on the linked page: "Psychiatrists in the city can now prescribe free visits to cultural venues to complement other treatments" So it is, even if prescribed, recommended in addition to other treatments. And again. It is optional.
I don't understand what you are on about. This is an option. Nobody forces people to participate. Nobody forces the medical professionals to prescribe it. Nobody even forces the medical professionals to consider it in any case.
> If you're feeling depressed enough to see a doctor, a free museum visit is unlikely to do anything for you.
Yes. The first sentence on the page: "Brussels tests cultural visits to treat anxiety". So we are talking about anxiety here and not depression. The second sentence on the linked page: "Psychiatrists in the city can now prescribe free visits to cultural venues to complement other treatments" So it is, even if prescribed, recommended in addition to other treatments. And again. It is optional.
> This is just a cultural subsidy in disguise.
This comes off as electioneering, which it probably is. It still is not a bad idea.
This comes off as electioneering, which it probably is. It still is not a bad idea.
in Canada they just recommend assisted suicide so a+ for brussels.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9061709/veteran-medical-assisted-...
https://globalnews.ca/news/9061709/veteran-medical-assisted-...
Boring people to death using existing underutilized equipment, les expensive than dedicated machinery.
Who else might take the time to get the exposure to suggest such a thing? a person whose job it is to do so.. "all arts are a waste of my money" is the pretext? bah!
>But if you read the article, you'll notice that approval for this new "treatment" came from the deputy mayor for culture with no input from the medical community.
The politician approved their involvement with a six month trial run by several hospitals. The politician is involved because they are in charge of the museums offering tickets.
>Even worse, this new law trivializes the challenges of living with mental illness and undermines the work of mental health professional, who have spent decades educating the public that treating depression goes far beyond "getting yourself out there" or "taking a break."
Not really a law, and it would be your health professional that suggests the program in addition to other treatment, and then consults you about it before and after the trip.
You can be cynical about this news story, which is likely politicians saying "we're helping you see?" But the actual program seems to have more behind it than your post suggests.
The politician approved their involvement with a six month trial run by several hospitals. The politician is involved because they are in charge of the museums offering tickets.
>Even worse, this new law trivializes the challenges of living with mental illness and undermines the work of mental health professional, who have spent decades educating the public that treating depression goes far beyond "getting yourself out there" or "taking a break."
Not really a law, and it would be your health professional that suggests the program in addition to other treatment, and then consults you about it before and after the trip.
You can be cynical about this news story, which is likely politicians saying "we're helping you see?" But the actual program seems to have more behind it than your post suggests.
Thanks for adding in these details. I definitely still feel cynical even with this information. It's not clear where the idea for this program originated. I highly doubt local hospitals approached the city government and said, "Oh hey, we would really like to start prescribing museum visit. Can you help with this?"
Looking at the big picture it is good to see the government try to improve quality of life. Things like reduced traffic, increased greenspace, and access to activities can play a role in treating / reducing illness. The government still should not be promoting museum visits as an effective treatment component for mental illness.
I honestly think museums should be free / low-cost for everyone in any case.
Looking at the big picture it is good to see the government try to improve quality of life. Things like reduced traffic, increased greenspace, and access to activities can play a role in treating / reducing illness. The government still should not be promoting museum visits as an effective treatment component for mental illness.
I honestly think museums should be free / low-cost for everyone in any case.
>It's not clear where the idea for this program originated.
I'm not sure, all I know is what was in the article. It mentions it was based off a similar program somewhere in Canada. Wherever it originated, it still would have had to pass the hospital review, but both groups are liable to do something for PR.
And while there may be better things the government could do, they also require far more work and money than this program that involves giving out tickets to museums.
I also find state mrun museums charging to be strange, but that's a separate matter.
I'm not sure, all I know is what was in the article. It mentions it was based off a similar program somewhere in Canada. Wherever it originated, it still would have had to pass the hospital review, but both groups are liable to do something for PR.
And while there may be better things the government could do, they also require far more work and money than this program that involves giving out tickets to museums.
I also find state mrun museums charging to be strange, but that's a separate matter.
Art therapy is used on many institutions and other psychiatric holding places so I assume art has already been proven to have therapeutic value
Tangential, there's some "evidence" suggesting metalheads are happier (on average), music is art right? ;)
Does it, though? On the level that you would write a prescription for it like a drug? Taking medicine doesn't rely on your aesthetic taste, judgement, education, etc. It just performs its chemical imperative.
Things like this seem to be tracing the gradual turn of rigorous science-driven disciplines into something else.
Things like this seem to be tracing the gradual turn of rigorous science-driven disciplines into something else.
First of all, drugs aren't that simple. They absolutely require judgement in prescribing, and any one drug can affect different people in different ways. See for example the antidepressant class of drugs SSRIs, where there are loads of related drugs, and basically no way (currently) to know which will or won't relieve depression in any single depressed person.
And lots of medicine isn't drug based! Would you write the same comment about the idea of a doctor prescribing extremely studied therapy such as CBD?
And lots of medicine isn't drug based! Would you write the same comment about the idea of a doctor prescribing extremely studied therapy such as CBD?
> On the level that you would write a prescription for it like a drug?
I'm assuming the prescription is just for bureaucratic purposes to determine who pays for the museum entry fees
I'm assuming the prescription is just for bureaucratic purposes to determine who pays for the museum entry fees
Yeah that's the "something else". The scientific establishment has garnered quite a bit of credibility, resulting in society giving it more power. But now people who are only interested in the power are seeking to have their ideas perceived as scientific instead of political.
Are you referring to this?
Modern art was CIA 'weapon'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-...
Modern art was CIA 'weapon'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-...
No, I'm referring to the phenomenon that I guess most people are referring to as 'science vs "The Science"'.
Science being the pursuit of knowledge through experimentation and peer review. "The Science" being the use of the imprimatur of scientific legitimacy as a political forcing function and illusion of neutrality to direct money and power in support of one's priorities.
Using science for power the same way the establishment used to use religion for power.
Science being the pursuit of knowledge through experimentation and peer review. "The Science" being the use of the imprimatur of scientific legitimacy as a political forcing function and illusion of neutrality to direct money and power in support of one's priorities.
Using science for power the same way the establishment used to use religion for power.
Correct. Hopefully this isn't diverting public health money away from other things.
Agreed. See my comment in this thread about the lack of scientific / medical input behind this.
If this museum visit scheme came in the form of a pill, it would require years of trials and data proving its efficacy. Why are politicans allowed to bypass the EMA?
If this museum visit scheme came in the form of a pill, it would require years of trials and data proving its efficacy. Why are politicans allowed to bypass the EMA?
First, psychiatric drugs don't have entirely predictable impact. Choosing them and choosing their dosage is matter of trial and error for many patients. They also often have very heavy damaging side effects.
And second, quite a lot of medical interventions or lifestyle recommendation don't actually have "years of trials and data proving their efficacy" - never did. The years of trials thing happen with drugs, because they are high risk. It does not happen with run of the mill "try to rest on bed", "take walks" kind of advice.
And second, quite a lot of medical interventions or lifestyle recommendation don't actually have "years of trials and data proving their efficacy" - never did. The years of trials thing happen with drugs, because they are high risk. It does not happen with run of the mill "try to rest on bed", "take walks" kind of advice.
Isn't this the very study you are calling for? Sure, it happens with an entire city at once, but given that there's little potential for harm I don't see the issue with that? Surely this experiment will give better data than a tiny study with two dozen participants.
Doctors are allowed to prescribe exercise and vegetables without years of trials.
Depression and anxiety are complicated because we still know so little about these conditions, as evidenced by the recent serotonin kerfuffle.
That means we are left to solve an urgent and life-altering problem with relatively artisanal techniques that center around our intuitive understanding of the world and of human psychology. This can take the form of therapy with a licensed professional (which is still an artisanal undertaking) or it can be the individual centering on what they know about themselves and their circumstances and 'tricking' their brain into being functional again, on the basis of the condition being hypothetically tied to our subconscious perception that things are going poorly.
That means we are left to solve an urgent and life-altering problem with relatively artisanal techniques that center around our intuitive understanding of the world and of human psychology. This can take the form of therapy with a licensed professional (which is still an artisanal undertaking) or it can be the individual centering on what they know about themselves and their circumstances and 'tricking' their brain into being functional again, on the basis of the condition being hypothetically tied to our subconscious perception that things are going poorly.
[deleted]
Why wait for a psychiatrist to prescribe one, go to a museum!
… or an arts center. In Brussels the Bozar stands out as particularly cool. I caught some great concerts there during a night soirée there last week, including Anouar Brahem Quartet and Arve Henriksen with Janne Mark and friends.
Free?! Now we are talking !
… or an arts center. In Brussels the Bozar stands out as particularly cool. I caught some great concerts there during a night soirée there last week, including Anouar Brahem Quartet and Arve Henriksen with Janne Mark and friends.
Free?! Now we are talking !
Therapy at the Retro Gaming Museum https://pixel-museum.brussels/ Play Alex Kidd in a loop for a day on a Sega Master System 1!
Honestly, I have always considered museums extremely boring and uninteresting, since childhood, a feeling that somewhat persists to this day. Some of them are even extremely depressing places.
What I would like, however, is free visits to Starbucks. Perhaps that makes me a simple guy, but I just love a good cup of coffee if I am feeling a bit down. It jabs me right back to reality and rationality usually.
What I would like, however, is free visits to Starbucks. Perhaps that makes me a simple guy, but I just love a good cup of coffee if I am feeling a bit down. It jabs me right back to reality and rationality usually.
This is probably the saddest thing I read in 2022
Both are used in anxiety treatment, but coffee is a bit of an unfortunate purchase for somebody with clinical anxiety.
Many are, sure, the trick is to find something that appeals to you. Here's a few I recommend:
https://www.micropia.nl -- A museum of microscopic life. With actual living exhibits and a bunch of microscopes you can play with. They have a lab on site to maintain the exhibition. How cool is that?
https://www.teylersmuseum.nl/en -- Loads of old fashioned, steampunk-looking gadgets. Leyden jars, old microscopes in brass, that kind of thing.
https://www.hnf.de/start.html -- Heinz Nixdorf Museum, the largest computing museum. You get to play with a working phone exchange and a whole bunch of other stuff.
https://www.rmg.co.uk/cutty-sark -- Cool ship, and you can also have lunch under it, because the whole thing is suspended over people's heads. There's a huge and very nice park nearby too.
https://frammuseum.no/ -- Ship that was used in Arctic and Antarctic exploration
https://norskfolkemuseum.no/ -- Norwegian Museum of Cultural History. Close to the one above.
https://15kop.ru/en -- Museum of Soviet Arcade Machines. Probably not the best time to travel to Moscow, but maybe when things quiet down.
https://www.micropia.nl -- A museum of microscopic life. With actual living exhibits and a bunch of microscopes you can play with. They have a lab on site to maintain the exhibition. How cool is that?
https://www.teylersmuseum.nl/en -- Loads of old fashioned, steampunk-looking gadgets. Leyden jars, old microscopes in brass, that kind of thing.
https://www.hnf.de/start.html -- Heinz Nixdorf Museum, the largest computing museum. You get to play with a working phone exchange and a whole bunch of other stuff.
https://www.rmg.co.uk/cutty-sark -- Cool ship, and you can also have lunch under it, because the whole thing is suspended over people's heads. There's a huge and very nice park nearby too.
https://frammuseum.no/ -- Ship that was used in Arctic and Antarctic exploration
https://norskfolkemuseum.no/ -- Norwegian Museum of Cultural History. Close to the one above.
https://15kop.ru/en -- Museum of Soviet Arcade Machines. Probably not the best time to travel to Moscow, but maybe when things quiet down.
[deleted]
Museums (like education!) are wasted on the young, in my experience. When young, a museum was just a lot of unconnected items; that is, I just didn't know enough about the world and the history of it for anything in the museum to connect to anything I already knew. None of it meant anything to me and being there was thus dull.
Now, almost any museum is interesting; the displays and exhibits will connect to things I already know about, places I have been, history I have already learned, cultures I've experienced, and something in my accumulated wisdom will make a new connection and fit better.
Eventually it reaches the point where things that should sound like parodies, like a museum of drainage, becomes genuinely interesting.
Now, almost any museum is interesting; the displays and exhibits will connect to things I already know about, places I have been, history I have already learned, cultures I've experienced, and something in my accumulated wisdom will make a new connection and fit better.
Eventually it reaches the point where things that should sound like parodies, like a museum of drainage, becomes genuinely interesting.
Children need museums that cater to them. Dragging a 6 year old into a building full of weird paintings or sculptures is a waste of time and only annoys the kid.
There are plenty museums full of cool stuff that's either interesting them, or can be played with, or are outdoors and can be handled as just a pleasant walk through a cool looking place.
There are plenty museums full of cool stuff that's either interesting them, or can be played with, or are outdoors and can be handled as just a pleasant walk through a cool looking place.
There actually used to be a very interesting science museum in Brussels called Scientastic [1].
The museum was aimed at children and the exhibit consisted of many practical "magic tricks" illustrating some piece of science or technology. Things such as electromagnets, refraction effects, color theory, optical illusions, simple mechanical devices, simple chemistry experiments, etc. For example I remember first learning about the brachistochrone curve at this museum, even though I was too young at the time to know or care about its name. Or that you could use red cabbage juice as a natural pH indicator.
Unfortunately the museum never got much funding or interest from the government, and at some point the museum was destroyed (possibly illegally) to make room for a shopping mall.
[1] https://www.scientastic.com/EN/IntroE.htm
The museum was aimed at children and the exhibit consisted of many practical "magic tricks" illustrating some piece of science or technology. Things such as electromagnets, refraction effects, color theory, optical illusions, simple mechanical devices, simple chemistry experiments, etc. For example I remember first learning about the brachistochrone curve at this museum, even though I was too young at the time to know or care about its name. Or that you could use red cabbage juice as a natural pH indicator.
Unfortunately the museum never got much funding or interest from the government, and at some point the museum was destroyed (possibly illegally) to make room for a shopping mall.
[1] https://www.scientastic.com/EN/IntroE.htm
I remember going to the National Space Centre (there might be multiple in the UK, the one I remember was shaped like a giant white beehive) a lot as a kid. In fact, it seems to my memory that up until the age of ~14 every kids birthday was hosted there, and we never seemed to get bored of it.
Looking back on it, I find it funny that out of all the amazing things there (a full sized rocket, some kind of capsule you could actually sit in and play with the controls on), the thing that continually fascinated me the most was a little audio visualiser with a microphone, so when you spoke into it the line would deform.
Looking back on it, I find it funny that out of all the amazing things there (a full sized rocket, some kind of capsule you could actually sit in and play with the controls on), the thing that continually fascinated me the most was a little audio visualiser with a microphone, so when you spoke into it the line would deform.
I think the science museum (also in London) is the perfect kind of museum for children. There's so many weird things that will interest the children in there.
Absolutely; or at least, I have fond memories of it from the early 90s when I was a kid myself.
>What I would like, however, is free visits to *Starbucks*. Perhaps that makes me a simple guy, but I just love a *good cup of coffee*
What do these have to do with one another?
What do these have to do with one another?
Museums are like any other venues, you have to choose things that appeal to you.
There's anything from exotic life forms to experience centered modern art, science experiment expositions, ancient musical instruments...
As long as you have any interests there should be museums relating to those.
As long as you have any interests there should be museums relating to those.
The clinics around here aren't quite so highbrow, but they commonly offer groups for walking and visiting shopping malls. This is considered therapeutic as it helps the clients socialize, integrate into the community, and also get out and have some fresh air and exercise.
I think museums and cultural outings are excellent ideas and there should be partnerships among them to welcome the mentally ill with open arms. I would imagine that these programs are already in place for school children and various disadvantaged populations. I wholeheartedly support their expansion, because good mental health is about much more than medication and medical treatments, it's about having good social experiences which are guided by professionals and benefit the whole community.
I think museums and cultural outings are excellent ideas and there should be partnerships among them to welcome the mentally ill with open arms. I would imagine that these programs are already in place for school children and various disadvantaged populations. I wholeheartedly support their expansion, because good mental health is about much more than medication and medical treatments, it's about having good social experiences which are guided by professionals and benefit the whole community.
Yeah I see this all the damn time, the reason you don’t see this with museums is less that it doesn’t happen and more that there isn’t many of them and they get old.
An embodiment of the power of the placebo effect.
The human mind/body is an amazing thing.
The human mind/body is an amazing thing.
Taking my children to museums does not reduce my anxiety.
In London (state owned) museums are free for everyone. Maybe they should offer them a Eurostar ticket as an alternative.
As much as I love London's museums, I wouldn't wish someone undergoing therapy to have to deal with the hassle, stress, and rudeness that is customs by whichever party the French hired to do juxtaposed border control at St Pancras on the way back to the continent.
And does the British Museum still have that security line outside where your bags are thoroughly checked¹ for bombs by some underpaid person who takes out his frustrations on visitors? Yeah, that's good for your sanity, that is.
1: Glossed over while being berated for not following mumbled orders fast enough.
And does the British Museum still have that security line outside where your bags are thoroughly checked¹ for bombs by some underpaid person who takes out his frustrations on visitors? Yeah, that's good for your sanity, that is.
1: Glossed over while being berated for not following mumbled orders fast enough.
I second the hassle and stress part. Going through customs while leaving from Amsterdam to London is no fun. Going to Berlin by train from Amsterdam, in comparison, is utopia.
You get in the train, laptop open, have a workday, get some food or whatever you need if needed. Boom! Arrival.
Can't say the same for Ams-Lon or Lon-Ams.
You get in the train, laptop open, have a workday, get some food or whatever you need if needed. Boom! Arrival.
Can't say the same for Ams-Lon or Lon-Ams.
Perhaps it's because I've never had to deal with US customs and being Dutch being spoiled with Schengen¹ that my perspectives are skewed, but all my experiences with British customs and security to date have left a bad taste. I've been to South Korea and Japan, and have never had any issue whatsoever, and no rudeness at all, but a layover at Heathrow? Rude security folk and depressed looking staff. Eurostar? Same thing over at St Pancras (the actual staff at the French customs point is mostly British).
It's not likely to have gotten better now post-Brexit either.
It's such as a shame, because Britain really does have its upsides and genuinely nice people too; not to mention a wealth of culture.
1: As you say, travelling to Germany (or Austria, Italy, Belgium, even Switzerland) by train is just great.
It's not likely to have gotten better now post-Brexit either.
It's such as a shame, because Britain really does have its upsides and genuinely nice people too; not to mention a wealth of culture.
1: As you say, travelling to Germany (or Austria, Italy, Belgium, even Switzerland) by train is just great.
It's not just you — even as a Brit with an upper-middle class accent, even when wearing a suit, even though the other UK airports I've used have been fine, Heathrow in particular is bad. (Not used St Pancras/Eurostar enough to really compare).
Dutch as well, we're definitely spoiled with Schengen.
I was in the British Museum a few months ago and just walked straight in.
Glad to hear that pointless bit of security theatre is gone then.
Hm, I didn't go over there since Brexit due to Covid ... don't they have those e-Gates anymore?
Yes if you're British/American/European/Canadian/NZ/Australian etc (a country with a low risk of illegal immigration), it can be quite quick if your passport works even when busy. But the queues for others can be scary
My wife got stuck in the e-gate, because it instructs you to take off your glasses and have your face scanned, but she couldn't follow the instructions without her glasses, causing her to panic a little. I was on the other side of the gate having passed through already, but got hassled by a security guy¹ in a booth to move on whilst my wife was looking for reassurance (and no one came to help her).
I'll take a manned gate any day.
1: Yeah, I'll move on when she's OK, now either help or kindly fuck off, mate.
I'll take a manned gate any day.
1: Yeah, I'll move on when she's OK, now either help or kindly fuck off, mate.
They are some of the best museums in the world too.
awestroke(2)
Non-medical interventions are perfectly fine but should not be legislated without consulting medical professionals. Have there been research trials that show museum visits are superior to other self-care activities? Politicians should never be allowed to legislate medical treatment like this. This isn't much different from legislating ivermectin as a cure for COVID.
Even worse, this new law trivializes the challenges of living with mental illness and undermines the work of mental health professional, who have spent decades educating the public that treating depression goes far beyond "getting yourself out there" or "taking a break." If you're feeling depressed enough to see a doctor, a free museum visit is unlikely to do anything for you.
I am sure if you polled psychiatrists in Brussels and asked them what they would most like to do for their patients, a free museum visit would be at the bottom of the list. Maybe they would suggest a free gym membership. This is just a cultural subsidy in disguise.