Ask HN: Any legal place to buy offline TV movie downloads?
74 comments
To my mind, the closest thing to a legal option here is to purchase the blu-ray and then use Handbrake to rip it to whatever format you want. I say close to a legal option because in most cases it's still going to be illegal in the US.
I've read conflicting stuff about this, but my understanding is that it is technically legal to make "backup" copies of media you own. However, breaking encryption to bypass DRM on the blu-ray (which you will need to do in almost all cases) in order to make that backup is considered a violation of copyright.
So, while I wouldn't advise anyone to break the law, I will say that this is one of those laws that I don't think anyone has an ethical obligation to follow. It's not only a stupid law, but almost impossible to enforce. Make of that what you will.
I've read conflicting stuff about this, but my understanding is that it is technically legal to make "backup" copies of media you own. However, breaking encryption to bypass DRM on the blu-ray (which you will need to do in almost all cases) in order to make that backup is considered a violation of copyright.
So, while I wouldn't advise anyone to break the law, I will say that this is one of those laws that I don't think anyone has an ethical obligation to follow. It's not only a stupid law, but almost impossible to enforce. Make of that what you will.
The DMCA allows the Librarian of Congress to revise exceptions every three years, and cracking videos for personal use gets recommended to them almost every time. (Called DMCA Section 1201 exemptions.) [^1]
In the last session (2021), they only carved out exceptions for recognized academic institutions, archives, libraries, and a few other limited uses. Alas, maybe it'll happen in 2024.
Here's the list of their exceptions for all technologies.[^2]
[1]: https://www.copyright.gov/1201/
[2]: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-37/chapter-II/subchapter-...
Caveat: IANAL.
In the last session (2021), they only carved out exceptions for recognized academic institutions, archives, libraries, and a few other limited uses. Alas, maybe it'll happen in 2024.
Here's the list of their exceptions for all technologies.[^2]
[1]: https://www.copyright.gov/1201/
[2]: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-37/chapter-II/subchapter-...
Caveat: IANAL.
Making personal backups is legal in all states, isn’t it?
I believe yes, but circumvention of the Blu-Ray copy protection is not ...
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Can you even make a backup without doing this? Which law takes precedence?
The struggle of living in the US. This really hasn’t been clarified either because nobody, as of yet, has ever been sued for only backing up their media, but for other charges added.
Movie studios seem to know that suing just for making backups of media you purchased comes with substantial risk of practically legalizing it.
It would appear though that anti-circumvention would take precedence.
Movie studios seem to know that suing just for making backups of media you purchased comes with substantial risk of practically legalizing it.
It would appear though that anti-circumvention would take precedence.
You can, but you have to crack the encryption yourself. Selling or distributing bypass tools remains illegal iirc.
Unfortunately not, unless you're an academic institution, archive, or library. At least, not in its entirety -- you can do short clips under certain fair use circumstances. (IANAL)
Here's the list of exceptions:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-37/chapter-II/subchapter-...
Here's the list of exceptions:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-37/chapter-II/subchapter-...
Ugh...
I use MakeMKV nowadays to rip then encode later to smaller size with Handbrake https://www.makemkv.com/
You can use an external device that stream the movie to the tv from Netflix, HBO, etc. This way you don't need to connect your tv to the net.
I personally use the nvidia shield tv pro.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/shield/shield-tv-pro/
I personally use the nvidia shield tv pro.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/shield/shield-tv-pro/
This is the comment I was looking for. I mean you don’t want your tv connected to Internet, then don’t. Just connect an external device like fire stick and let it handle your subscriptions.
Sadly, that'll only work if the internet connection is fast enough to stream 4K content, as I believe the Shield doesn't allow you to pre-download.
Yes or go a cheaper route:
Buy Firetv 4k With the Tivimate software (paid)
Buy Firetv 4k With the Tivimate software (paid)
I think the problem here is what you're really asking for is DRM free content. None of the content producers themselves are willing to license their content that way so it would be very difficult to build the service.
I would be willing to accept DRM as long as the convenience of using the files matches an illegally-obtained rip.
For example, Apple already allows to move files in-between devices associated with the same account. If they would now release an Android TV app, then I could download the movie on my laptop, move it over to the TV, and play it offline there with the app. Of course, Apple will probably never do that, but it illustrates that DRMed content is OK for my intended use.
For example, Apple already allows to move files in-between devices associated with the same account. If they would now release an Android TV app, then I could download the movie on my laptop, move it over to the TV, and play it offline there with the app. Of course, Apple will probably never do that, but it illustrates that DRMed content is OK for my intended use.
Why not get an Apple TV in that case? That has exactly the workflow you’re looking for.
No, doesn't allow 4K pre-downloads
Partially related: How come I can "purchase" 4K files on iTunes if there is no way for me to make a permanent backup of the movie (because I'm not allowed to download 4K files) which means I am dependent on the content not getting removed from iTunes or else my "purchase" just vanishes. For HD files the "purchase" label makes sense, because I can download and backup them. But for 4K, it's more like long-term rental.
I guess technically you are purchasing a licence to watch the film, within the constraints set out in the iTunes Terms of Service, which permit Apple to withdraw your access to the film at any time, for any reason.
I wonder how long until we'll have restaurants where you "purchase" a license to taste their food, but they may - at their sole discretion - withdraw your access before it reaches your table ^_^
Not to that extreme, but there are certainly restaurants that take your food away if you don't finish your meal within, say, half an hour.
That's pretty extreme. What's the point? They can't serve the food again to someone else.
The point is to free up the table so that they can seat another customer.
There are numerous justifications for avoiding connecting most smart TVs to the internet, so that's reasonable. None of ours get connected either.
Play a Blu-ray on an Xbox or laptop connected to the TV instead of your bad player, it should be more convenient than downloading on your questionable connection and shuffling files around all the time. After all, it's just a digital file with DRM on a storage device, which you're ok with. There may be rights issues that limit stores to offering 4K streaming and not downloads.
If you do bother to switch to another playing device, maybe try grabbing a UHD Movies Anywhere movie then playing it in 4K from several of the Movies Anywhere linked services to see if one buffers better or has a better bitrate suitable for your connection.
If the underlying connection problem is the ISP in your area and it doesn't even offer 20Mbps, maybe you could give Starlink a try. If it's more about wireless signal or interference, look into a better wireless router or try ethernet.
Lastly, the HD releases of some movies now are quite good due to better source material, especially at some viewing distance/screen size combos. I know it can feel like a waste when you've invested in a great TV since you miss out on HDR or other features, but part of having a great device is good upscaling. How much it matters really depends on the kind of movie.
Play a Blu-ray on an Xbox or laptop connected to the TV instead of your bad player, it should be more convenient than downloading on your questionable connection and shuffling files around all the time. After all, it's just a digital file with DRM on a storage device, which you're ok with. There may be rights issues that limit stores to offering 4K streaming and not downloads.
If you do bother to switch to another playing device, maybe try grabbing a UHD Movies Anywhere movie then playing it in 4K from several of the Movies Anywhere linked services to see if one buffers better or has a better bitrate suitable for your connection.
If the underlying connection problem is the ISP in your area and it doesn't even offer 20Mbps, maybe you could give Starlink a try. If it's more about wireless signal or interference, look into a better wireless router or try ethernet.
Lastly, the HD releases of some movies now are quite good due to better source material, especially at some viewing distance/screen size combos. I know it can feel like a waste when you've invested in a great TV since you miss out on HDR or other features, but part of having a great device is good upscaling. How much it matters really depends on the kind of movie.
That's my current setup :) bluray + separate player.
Are you in the US? Legality is strongly location-dependent, e.g. "Now I've heard that it is technically easy to rip the iTunes DRM to recover an MP4, but that is likely illegal again." is totally legal in Spain where people have the RIGHT of private copy of their purchased media (including circumventing any restrictions).
This is not correct.
Would you consider a middle ground for movie watching? I understand you don’t want to hook up your LG to the internet, but would you considering booking up a fire stick, Roku, Apple TV, etc device for the purpose of streaming movies?
You’d avoid the forced upgrades on your LG and suffer a minor inconvenience of streaming from another device which does have internet access. I don’t know what the ad’s situation is on those devices, but I’m sure with some research you could find a streaming device that hopefully meets your requirements.
Another option is cast all the videos from a tablet or computer to the TV.
You’d avoid the forced upgrades on your LG and suffer a minor inconvenience of streaming from another device which does have internet access. I don’t know what the ad’s situation is on those devices, but I’m sure with some research you could find a streaming device that hopefully meets your requirements.
Another option is cast all the videos from a tablet or computer to the TV.
> for the purpose of streaming movies?
My internet connection isn't always fast or reliable enough to stream 4K. I was considering buying an Apple TV until I read [1] which makes it very clear that even if you only use closed-OS close-filesystem Apple hardware, they still won't let you download 4K content ahead of time.
> you could find a streaming device that hopefully meets your requirements.
Apple TV, Roku, and Fire TV all don't allow 4K downloads.
> Another option is cast all the videos from a tablet or computer to the TV.
I'm not aware of any legal app for a computer that can download 4K. And iPad also doesn't allow 4K download, see [1].
[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207949
My internet connection isn't always fast or reliable enough to stream 4K. I was considering buying an Apple TV until I read [1] which makes it very clear that even if you only use closed-OS close-filesystem Apple hardware, they still won't let you download 4K content ahead of time.
> you could find a streaming device that hopefully meets your requirements.
Apple TV, Roku, and Fire TV all don't allow 4K downloads.
> Another option is cast all the videos from a tablet or computer to the TV.
I'm not aware of any legal app for a computer that can download 4K. And iPad also doesn't allow 4K download, see [1].
[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207949
It sucks but if you want convenience, get an Apple TV and hook it to your TV via HDMI. That way the TV stays offline and you can just buy and stream media from Apple with extreme convenience and decent privacy (they aren’t selling your personal info to advertisers).
Alternatively, as far I know, your options are buy ‘n rip or pirate them.
IMO the “smart” features of basically all TVs are worse than useless and trying to copy media to the TV is a huge waste of time compared to using streaming hardware (Apple TV, Roku, etc)
Alternatively, as far I know, your options are buy ‘n rip or pirate them.
IMO the “smart” features of basically all TVs are worse than useless and trying to copy media to the TV is a huge waste of time compared to using streaming hardware (Apple TV, Roku, etc)
Blu-ray rips as mkv play flawless on the TV. If only there was a legal source...
As for the Apple TV, that one can't pre-download 4K content and my connection isn't stable enough in the evenings for streaming 4K.
As for the Apple TV, that one can't pre-download 4K content and my connection isn't stable enough in the evenings for streaming 4K.
>Is there any place where I can legally purchase a movie file that can be played offline on an Android "smart" TV?
International waters.
International waters.
Well, you'd have to watch it in international waters too, AIUI.
Bring enough back to fill up your bathtub.
I thought it's a reference to a torrent site with maritime branding ;)
The closest and easiest is to buy the digital download or Bluray, then get a rip from a pirate site. You've already bought the content, you just want to choose how to view it.
I, like you, also have an LG OLED, and I use RARBG. I outlined my setup in a previous comment:
I'm using rarbg as my main source which has magnet links that qBittorrent detects on click. I use mpv with Anime4k for animated content or an Nvidia Image Scaling glsl filter which is a decent upscaler/sharpener. I also use SVP for frame interpolation with an RTX 3080 which supports optical flow, and I assume it'll be even better in the RTX 40 series given their DLSS 3's frame interpolation exclusivity. It all looks incredible on my LG OLED TV/monitorm with 4k HDR 10 bit support.
I, like you, also have an LG OLED, and I use RARBG. I outlined my setup in a previous comment:
I'm using rarbg as my main source which has magnet links that qBittorrent detects on click. I use mpv with Anime4k for animated content or an Nvidia Image Scaling glsl filter which is a decent upscaler/sharpener. I also use SVP for frame interpolation with an RTX 3080 which supports optical flow, and I assume it'll be even better in the RTX 40 series given their DLSS 3's frame interpolation exclusivity. It all looks incredible on my LG OLED TV/monitorm with 4k HDR 10 bit support.
Legality or ease of getting lots of content, pick one.
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Dumb TV's are harder to find, but so worth it. You probably can't walk into a Best Buy or Walmart and buy one anymore but there are options online.
As for the legal part of your question, I firmly believe uploading content is different than downloading it, so I have no issues sailing the high seas. Especially considering all of the price fixing scandals and Hollywood accounting that end up as a hidden tax on consumers. I have no moral qualms looking at something for free.
As for the legal part of your question, I firmly believe uploading content is different than downloading it, so I have no issues sailing the high seas. Especially considering all of the price fixing scandals and Hollywood accounting that end up as a hidden tax on consumers. I have no moral qualms looking at something for free.
It would be really weird if I make it to the frontpage with this, but nobody knew any answer.
But then again, maybe there's some entrepreneurs in here who can make it happen ;)
Looking at RARBG, it should be possible to convince movie execs that no, DRM is not preventing piracy. And I have a feeling that the "I go through extra work to avoid ads" crowd would have a higher than average income, so for them, $30 (the price of a recently released bluray) for a HQ file might work.
But then again, maybe there's some entrepreneurs in here who can make it happen ;)
Looking at RARBG, it should be possible to convince movie execs that no, DRM is not preventing piracy. And I have a feeling that the "I go through extra work to avoid ads" crowd would have a higher than average income, so for them, $30 (the price of a recently released bluray) for a HQ file might work.
Historically it hasn't worked out well. Look at what happened to my.mp3.com (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3.com#Original_version)
ouch. $53 mio out of court and then went bankrupt
It’s not preventing it but certainly is reducing it.
The only 4K download service is https://www.kaleidescape.com/ via a proprietary STB which will cost you multiple thousands.
You could buy Blu-Ray at Amazon and most Blu-Ray bundles include a digital download.
If you "purchase" a 4K = UHD file on Amazon, it's actually just them allowing you to stream the movie. Despite the name, the "digital download" doesn't allow you to download.
Thank you. I was not aware that a "digital download" is just streaming.
My preferred method, but not sure if “most” is true? Also the problem with this approach is that the licensor may go out of business.
Thank you. I had not considered this. I also just learned that the digital download is actually a streaming solution.
First mistake: buying a TV. Buy a cheap computer and plug it into a big monitor. After that, then we can talk about sourcing content legally/ethically/morally, which are very different concepts imho.
+1 I came here to say something similar: don’t buy smart TVs!
I gave away our very expensive smart TV to a friend and purchased a $200 plain TV that only has two inputs: HDMI and an old fashioned antenna jack. I also bought a little black Apple TV device.
If you don’t mind commercials, you can access a vast amount of TV shows and movies for free on Tubi. My wife and I pay for HBO, Netflicks, and Hulu, and we are Prime members.
For me, the important thing is to be able to temporarily download what I want to watch for a few day period, and not have any of the nasty smart TV ads or other bullshit.
For just the two of us, we also often pre-download stuff to a large iPad and watch on a small device.
I gave away our very expensive smart TV to a friend and purchased a $200 plain TV that only has two inputs: HDMI and an old fashioned antenna jack. I also bought a little black Apple TV device.
If you don’t mind commercials, you can access a vast amount of TV shows and movies for free on Tubi. My wife and I pay for HBO, Netflicks, and Hulu, and we are Prime members.
For me, the important thing is to be able to temporarily download what I want to watch for a few day period, and not have any of the nasty smart TV ads or other bullshit.
For just the two of us, we also often pre-download stuff to a large iPad and watch on a small device.
Good luck buying a 65" OLED computer display.
Won't monitors as big as TVs be much more expensive than TVs?
I read somewhere that over 30% of profit from smart TVs comes from user data. So, you are correct, large monitors or ‘dumb’ TVs can be more expensive.
My solution is MakeMKV. Allows me to rip DVD, Bluray, and 4K Bluray title to a MKV file, full bitrate. No menus, no FBI warning, no bs. I store the movies on a NAS and use a RPi running Kodi for playback.
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My approach was to get a TV-sized monitor (not sure what is the diagonal), and hooked it up to a Google Chromecast, as well as an old Mac Mini with a Plex server.
buy it, then download it via IRC/XDCC https://sunxdcc.com/
Very convenient and morally it feels okay, but I believe it's still technically illegal.
> but I believe it's still technically illegal
I don't think so but who knows... even attorneys don't know all laws.
I don't think so but who knows... even attorneys don't know all laws.
i mean, it's freakin crazy you and i are willing to jump thru legality hoops when they can legally hostage the content we paid money for.
I don't know that they are any better - but there's also Google play video and the Microsoft store.
Google Movies and TV doesn't allow you to move downloaded files from one device to another.
Microsoft Movies & TV: "4K playback is only available on Xbox One S and Xbox One X, and downloading video content isn't available on those devices."
Microsoft Movies & TV: "4K playback is only available on Xbox One S and Xbox One X, and downloading video content isn't available on those devices."
Doesn't Widevine need internet access to check the certificates?
From what I understand, the Widevine certificate is just metadata about the content and the expiration date of the license and that's signed by a trusted root and encrypted for the device's key.
So yes, I might have to copy the keyfile off my TV somewhere or install an online-provided file onto my TV. But that would both be possible.
(From what I understand, a common way how DRMed content ends up on RARBG is that people copy the key out of their TV and then use that to decrypt the Widevine-protected content, so the key inside the device appears to be the sole source of trust)
So yes, I might have to copy the keyfile off my TV somewhere or install an online-provided file onto my TV. But that would both be possible.
(From what I understand, a common way how DRMed content ends up on RARBG is that people copy the key out of their TV and then use that to decrypt the Widevine-protected content, so the key inside the device appears to be the sole source of trust)
No, Widevine certs are considerably more complicated than that. And they are individualised to the device, so there is no prospect of copying them over.
Well I'm not going to say pirate movies. But the laws exist to ensure capitalists make money, even if it is at the expense of people's freedoms.
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Now let's say I want to watch a movie on my TV.
I can rent a 4K blu-ray locally for 3€ per night and that'll work just fine. The Blu-Ray player needs regular online updates and is in general pretty hostile towards me, the law-abiding consumer, but it works. I've also heard that people have a great experience with RARBG, which appears to be a (likely illegal) place to freely download 4K movie rips. Then there's iTunes, where I can "purchase" and "download" movies, but the resulting files won't play on my TV, because they are wrapped in iTunes DRM. Also, iTunes vehemently refuses to download 4K movies, so for those I would be at the mercy of a good internet connection. Now I've heard that it is technically easy to rip the iTunes DRM to recover an MP4, but that is likely illegal again.
It appears that rented blu-rays are the only reasonable option here, but for convenience, I would like to download new movies. But legally. I don't mind if the file has DRM, as long as I can make the TV play it fully offline. So that means Widevine should be fine, as it's an Android TV. But it appears that all Widevine-based movie services (iTunes, Hulu, Amazon, Netflix) refuse to let me download 4K files. Also, they all insist on their own shitty apps, which I'm not sure I can get onto the TV without internet.
Is there any place where I can legally purchase a movie file that can be played offline on an Android "smart" TV?