Steering wheel falls off a new Tesla Y while driving on a highway(twitter.com)
twitter.com
Steering wheel falls off a new Tesla Y while driving on a highway
https://twitter.com/preneh24/status/1619889507133976580
94 comments
I used to work on error proofing software at an automotive assembly plant, and it turns out that error proofing steering wheel torque is hard.
Error proofing means at least two things in this context:
1. Making the operation hard to fail at, aka poka yoke (mistake proofing), sometimes called idiot proofing.
2. Work specification validation.
Both of these are difficult because the steering column has to be immobilized and then it has to be re-mobilized. This is not hard, per se, but it is just slightly more complicated than other assembly steps.
How does this happen? The validation mechanism and operator both have a type 2 error (false negative, failure to detect a fault) - they are not aware that some part of the tooling is not working or sensing correctly. Other things that can cause this: manual intervention to release a vehicle from the work cell due to excessive type 1 errors (false positive errors); repair work after the vehicle leaves the assembly line; off by one errors in vehicle tracking.
Error proofing means at least two things in this context:
1. Making the operation hard to fail at, aka poka yoke (mistake proofing), sometimes called idiot proofing.
2. Work specification validation.
Both of these are difficult because the steering column has to be immobilized and then it has to be re-mobilized. This is not hard, per se, but it is just slightly more complicated than other assembly steps.
How does this happen? The validation mechanism and operator both have a type 2 error (false negative, failure to detect a fault) - they are not aware that some part of the tooling is not working or sensing correctly. Other things that can cause this: manual intervention to release a vehicle from the work cell due to excessive type 1 errors (false positive errors); repair work after the vehicle leaves the assembly line; off by one errors in vehicle tracking.
To be fair, this isn't the first time this happens to Tesla either: https://twitter.com/JasonTuatara/status/1254498497170149382
Meanwhile Tesla is not recalling any vehicle.
The difference between a regular car manufacturer and Tesla is that they take responsibility and recall vehicles.
Now, who knows, maybe Tesla will recall their model Y, in which case I will stand corrected.
The difference between a regular car manufacturer and Tesla is that they take responsibility and recall vehicles.
Now, who knows, maybe Tesla will recall their model Y, in which case I will stand corrected.
Although I do not have any articles to show, I know that from my personal experiences that "other" manufaturers will also not perform recalls when there are "generally known" issues.
It is my belief that they all have bean counters constantly looking at the stats and have some sort of recall threshold before anything is recalled.
I'm sure some companies are better than others though which also probably depends on the country.
It is my belief that they all have bean counters constantly looking at the stats and have some sort of recall threshold before anything is recalled.
I'm sure some companies are better than others though which also probably depends on the country.
I bet they will not. In the meantime, apparently you'll stand downvoted.
Indeed, some 200,000 cars catch fire every year in the USA. Approximately zero of those make the news, unless it's a Tesla. So despite being 11 times less likely to catch fire, if you watch the news you might well conclude that only Teslas catch fire.
The fire problem with Tesla is two fold.
1. Tesla has electronic only locks in the rear seats of Model 3 and Model Y. Furthermore, the door handles to the front seats are electronic only, the mechanical override is hidden behind the speaker IIRC or under the floor.
2. Once the fire starts, the electronics fail to function, locking you inside of the car.
#1 combined with #2 means that Tesla vehicles are uniquely positioned to lock in and kill their victims. Even when there are people who are in the front seats, most people are ignorant to the location of the manual override, and thus get locked in for the fire.
Bonus points: it requires 10,000+ gallons of water to extinguish a Tesla Fire. Once that fire starts, they can't actually extinguish the flames.
------------
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/19/tesla-texas...
> “Our investigation has determined that one of the victims was in the front passenger seat; one was in the back seat,” Mark Herman, a constable for Harris County Precinct 4, told KHOU, adding police were “100 percent certain that no one was in the driver’s seat.”
> Officials in Houston said the battery inside Tesla ignited after the collision, causing a fire that burned for four hours and required more than 30,000 gallons of water to put out.
Current theory is that the driver tried the front door, which failed to work. (Electronics failed). Driver was likely ignorant to the manual-override process. Driver moves to rear seats to try back seats, which has no manual override. At that point, the two die to the fire. (There's a pretty bad theory floating around the media that it was "driverless". A later story found some Ring doorbell footage showing the driver in the driver's seat, so I don't buy the "driverless" theory that Wash. Po pushes in that story)
The "try the front door / try the back door" thing has happened so many times it should be the default assumption when we see these burn-to-death situations with Tesla vehicles.
----------
https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2019/10/florida-man-died-i...
Another case.
1. Tesla has electronic only locks in the rear seats of Model 3 and Model Y. Furthermore, the door handles to the front seats are electronic only, the mechanical override is hidden behind the speaker IIRC or under the floor.
2. Once the fire starts, the electronics fail to function, locking you inside of the car.
#1 combined with #2 means that Tesla vehicles are uniquely positioned to lock in and kill their victims. Even when there are people who are in the front seats, most people are ignorant to the location of the manual override, and thus get locked in for the fire.
Bonus points: it requires 10,000+ gallons of water to extinguish a Tesla Fire. Once that fire starts, they can't actually extinguish the flames.
------------
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/19/tesla-texas...
> “Our investigation has determined that one of the victims was in the front passenger seat; one was in the back seat,” Mark Herman, a constable for Harris County Precinct 4, told KHOU, adding police were “100 percent certain that no one was in the driver’s seat.”
> Officials in Houston said the battery inside Tesla ignited after the collision, causing a fire that burned for four hours and required more than 30,000 gallons of water to put out.
Current theory is that the driver tried the front door, which failed to work. (Electronics failed). Driver was likely ignorant to the manual-override process. Driver moves to rear seats to try back seats, which has no manual override. At that point, the two die to the fire. (There's a pretty bad theory floating around the media that it was "driverless". A later story found some Ring doorbell footage showing the driver in the driver's seat, so I don't buy the "driverless" theory that Wash. Po pushes in that story)
The "try the front door / try the back door" thing has happened so many times it should be the default assumption when we see these burn-to-death situations with Tesla vehicles.
----------
https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2019/10/florida-man-died-i...
Another case.
For at least the past few years the front and rear do indeed have mechanical releases. The front is easy to get, its right below the electronic button. The rear, at least on the Y, is not as obvious or easy to get to. Its under the doors storage mat. I believe the rear's has been updated recently but don't quote me. So not totally accurate for the first part.
Those aren't the same things though. You can extinguish a fire on a normal vehicle in many cases. However, it's pretty much impossible to extinguish once a serious fire in a Tesla gets going.
https://nypost.com/2023/01/30/firefighters-use-6k-gallons-of...
https://nypost.com/2023/01/30/firefighters-use-6k-gallons-of...
Whataboutism is lazy. This is notable on its own or in relation to other companies, otherwise it wouldn't hit the front page.
The major differences are that:
- Tesla has a well-documented history of sacrificing safety for factory throughput, including taping parts together and shipping parts that are out of tolerance
- Tesla's customer service in this (and, nowadays, all other) error is abysmal
- Elon Musk controls the outlet where this was first reported, and he has now shadow-banned the post (it's impossible to search for it)
The major differences are that:
- Tesla has a well-documented history of sacrificing safety for factory throughput, including taping parts together and shipping parts that are out of tolerance
- Tesla's customer service in this (and, nowadays, all other) error is abysmal
- Elon Musk controls the outlet where this was first reported, and he has now shadow-banned the post (it's impossible to search for it)
Unless you have data to show that Tesla is uniquely bad here, your post comes off as nothing other than a smear, especially with the "whataboutism" epithet.
Ford recalls vehicles _on the chance_ that its steering wheel falls off. In contrast, Tesla steering wheels fall off, _but no recall has been announced_ yet.
This is a very different problem. Ford is proactively trying to prevent steering wheels from becoming a problem publicly. In contrast, Tesla waits for it to be a problem before issuing a recall.
Case in point: instead of showing a news article about Ford steering wheels falling off, they listed an article discussing a hypothetical "might fall off" recall. Do you see why these two stories are completely different?
EDIT: Case in point: how long do you think it will be before Tesla issues a recall over this? Can Tesla even track its manufacturing errors and which batch of vehicles are affected by this problem?
This is a very different problem. Ford is proactively trying to prevent steering wheels from becoming a problem publicly. In contrast, Tesla waits for it to be a problem before issuing a recall.
Case in point: instead of showing a news article about Ford steering wheels falling off, they listed an article discussing a hypothetical "might fall off" recall. Do you see why these two stories are completely different?
EDIT: Case in point: how long do you think it will be before Tesla issues a recall over this? Can Tesla even track its manufacturing errors and which batch of vehicles are affected by this problem?
> Ford recalls vehicles _on the chance_ that its steering wheel falls off. In contrast, Tesla steering wheels fall off, _but no recall has been announced_ yet.
Seems like steering wheels had already fallen off before they issued the recall.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/03/14/ford-st...
Seems like steering wheels had already fallen off before they issued the recall.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/03/14/ford-st...
You are basing this off of this single event? Once again, do you have data that steering wheels are falling off Teslas in numbers?
I'm basing this off of Tesla's awful history.
Multiple people have burned to death as those silly electronic locks fail and when the car catches on fire. Has there been any recall to fix this issue? No.
Multiple people have died as 'Full Self Driving' has collided into walls and trucks. Has there been a recall? No .
Multiple safety critical issues have hit this company over and over again, and they do nothing about it. I can say that Tesla will ignore this problem too.
Multiple people have burned to death as those silly electronic locks fail and when the car catches on fire. Has there been any recall to fix this issue? No.
Multiple people have died as 'Full Self Driving' has collided into walls and trucks. Has there been a recall? No .
Multiple safety critical issues have hit this company over and over again, and they do nothing about it. I can say that Tesla will ignore this problem too.
colordrops(1)
It's textbook whataboutism.
And your comment is meaningless. Please provide a reference to the textbook that defines whataboutism. Right, you can't, because it's just word salad. The term is meant to make forum users disregard a statement by sneering at the commenter and generating social stigmatization. Looky here folks, we've got a whataboutist, ignore them. It's almost like the word "cromulant", it's just a placeholder word. It means nothing.
I found this a surprisingly interesting discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
It includes many historical references, and an example from 1974 which may be the first use of the term; the definition given there (and throughout the article) is obviously applicable to modeless' original comment. It also includes a thoughtful defense of whataboutism, including rndmize's comment that sometimes it provides useful context.
It includes many historical references, and an example from 1974 which may be the first use of the term; the definition given there (and throughout the article) is obviously applicable to modeless' original comment. It also includes a thoughtful defense of whataboutism, including rndmize's comment that sometimes it provides useful context.
From the article:
Some commentators have defended the usage of whataboutism and tu quoque in certain contexts. Whataboutism can provide necessary context into whether or not a particular line of critique is relevant or fair, and behavior that may be imperfect by international standards may be appropriate in a given geopolitical neighborhood.[7] Accusing an interlocutor of whataboutism can also in itself be manipulative and serve the motive of discrediting, as critical talking points can be used selectively and purposefully even as the starting point of the conversation (cf. agenda setting, framing, framing effect, priming, cherry picking). The deviation from them can then be branded as whataboutism.
Providing context is whataboutism now?
Yes.
"Whataboutism" is the attempt to make something seem more acceptable because it's common (or at least not unique). It's a dismissal of valid criticism.
In this case, it doesn't matter if every company had a steering wheel recall. Tesla didn't and hasn't owned up to this mistake, and it's notably egregious even if other companies have had a similar issue.
"Whataboutism" is the attempt to make something seem more acceptable because it's common (or at least not unique). It's a dismissal of valid criticism.
In this case, it doesn't matter if every company had a steering wheel recall. Tesla didn't and hasn't owned up to this mistake, and it's notably egregious even if other companies have had a similar issue.
> "Whataboutism" is the attempt to make something seem more acceptable because it's common (or at least not unique).
That's not what it is. Whataboutism is generally an effort to paint someone making an argument as hypocritical by citing other incidents that are similar and by drawing attention away from the original argument, eg. Republicans are bad because X; what about Democrats that do X?
The top comment isn't saying this is acceptable because other car companies do this. They're saying this is a manufacturing defect, and as is often the case when manufacturing items in the millions, defects happen. Mistakes get made. And unless the statistics of an incident are known, a single isolated data point tells us very little, and attempting to draw general conclusions from it is bad practice at best.
Further, I wouldn't expect to hear about recalls about steering wheels from other car companies (unless it was a very common issue), or incidents where their cars caught fire, or just crashes in general - and yet it seems articles crop up regularly about such events as they apply to Teslas. Going by media attention alone, one would expect Teslas to be 10x less reliable as any other car, which just doesn't seem to be the case.
> In this case, it doesn't matter if every company had a steering wheel recall. Tesla didn't and hasn't owned up to this mistake, and it's notably egregious even if other companies have had a similar issue.
Dude, it's been _one day_. Literally.
The Ford recall article notes "The automaker says it is aware of two accidents and one injury that may have been caused by the problem." So far for this case, we have one incident and no accidents. I'm genuinely curious how many incident reports Ford received before they decided to do the recall - but its pretty obvious its more than a single case.
It isn't whataboutism to expect the same standards to be applied to all car companies.
That's not what it is. Whataboutism is generally an effort to paint someone making an argument as hypocritical by citing other incidents that are similar and by drawing attention away from the original argument, eg. Republicans are bad because X; what about Democrats that do X?
The top comment isn't saying this is acceptable because other car companies do this. They're saying this is a manufacturing defect, and as is often the case when manufacturing items in the millions, defects happen. Mistakes get made. And unless the statistics of an incident are known, a single isolated data point tells us very little, and attempting to draw general conclusions from it is bad practice at best.
Further, I wouldn't expect to hear about recalls about steering wheels from other car companies (unless it was a very common issue), or incidents where their cars caught fire, or just crashes in general - and yet it seems articles crop up regularly about such events as they apply to Teslas. Going by media attention alone, one would expect Teslas to be 10x less reliable as any other car, which just doesn't seem to be the case.
> In this case, it doesn't matter if every company had a steering wheel recall. Tesla didn't and hasn't owned up to this mistake, and it's notably egregious even if other companies have had a similar issue.
Dude, it's been _one day_. Literally.
The Ford recall article notes "The automaker says it is aware of two accidents and one injury that may have been caused by the problem." So far for this case, we have one incident and no accidents. I'm genuinely curious how many incident reports Ford received before they decided to do the recall - but its pretty obvious its more than a single case.
It isn't whataboutism to expect the same standards to be applied to all car companies.
It's hard to have a reasonable discussion about Tesla or Musk here or anywhere in general. Some mix of emotions or conflict of interest or both is going to result in disjoint and irrational posts. I tried to move the discussion to data and fair comparisons in another thread but it only results in sneers and derision.
And I'm not a huge fan of Musk, especially his recent behavior with Twitter, but I try to be fair and data driven at least.
And I'm not a huge fan of Musk, especially his recent behavior with Twitter, but I try to be fair and data driven at least.
The problem is that more often than not, accusations of whataboutism are used against people pointing out unfair/invalid criticism that is not taking the a comprehensive view of the situation or agendas of interested parties into account.
A steering wheel should never fall off a car while it's driving. Period. Millions upon millions of cars have been sold and driven for hundreds of billions of miles without losing a steering wheel.
It's notable that a Tesla lost one, no Teslas have been recalled, and Tesla's support has been terrible/insane about this (and many other quality issues).
> agendas of interested parties into account
The Twitter OP's "agenda" was to buy an expensive car that had a securely-attached steering wheel.
It's notable that a Tesla lost one, no Teslas have been recalled, and Tesla's support has been terrible/insane about this (and many other quality issues).
> agendas of interested parties into account
The Twitter OP's "agenda" was to buy an expensive car that had a securely-attached steering wheel.
>> (it's impossible to search for it)
and yet, somehow you read about it.
and yet, somehow you read about it.
I think given that Tesla is dominating the current automative news cycle with its announcement of a global price discount, interest in a story on a potential quality control issue is understandable:
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
Is there a database or something to lookup stats of car manufacturing failures? A family member of mine recently got a Model X and the back wheel came off while she was driving it on the highway. Never occurred to me that it might be an issue that happens with other manufacturers but would love to see the numbers.
It would have been if Ford fanatics had been everywhere preaching the superior technologies found in their Fords. IME even Ford owners are not very excited about the brand, there are some models (Raptor and Mustang mainly) enthusiasts but not to the degree when they buy $F stock and follow Ford's CEO Twitter.
Also Toyota's new flagship EV had a risk of the WHEELS falling off, so they recalled every unit.
but those carmakers dont also own twitter
Other carmakers aren't trading at a P/E ratio of over 50 years.
Apparently faked: https://twitter.com/wk057/status/1620249680469954561
I mean come on, this is clearly driver error, if he would have purchased the full self driving package for the totally reasonable price of $15,000 then he wouldn’t have needed to use his steering wheel on the highway at all and this whole situation could have been avoided.
Not related but the 15k self driving package is why I will never buy a tesla. I want an electric car but ill just wait longer for a competitor as i would personally feel like an idiot paying for the 15k or the other package they have.
Standard Tesla build quality, nothing to see here.
The Model Y owner stated that they were billed for the repair.
Two weeks ago I took my new Model 3 to Tesla and was also billed for a warranty repair. They removed the charge but only after I complained.
My opinion of Tesla has really declined since the purchase of my first Tesla in 2019. Probably will never buy another.
Two weeks ago I took my new Model 3 to Tesla and was also billed for a warranty repair. They removed the charge but only after I complained.
My opinion of Tesla has really declined since the purchase of my first Tesla in 2019. Probably will never buy another.
The workflow when you schedule a warranty repair causes people to think they are being charged when they are not. It is bad UX for sure, but Tesla does not (as a habit) charge for warranty repairs. It will seem like it on the app, before you actually go pick up your car. Your case may have been one of these, or perhaps it was some issue that is borderline warrantyable, and all car makers will try to wiggle out of warranty claims if possible.
Sorry, what is your point? "It seems like you billed, but in reality youre not billed" while "all car makers allways try to bill you"?
The point is the parent's story is unclear if Tesla was attempting to not cover warranty work or if it was the confusing billing workflow that Tesla uses. Hope that clears the confusion for you.
At least the front didn't fall off.
Adding a context to help appreciate this joke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
That’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point!
I'm sure they'll tow it out of the environment.
Well of course not; a wave didn't hit it.
I sent this to my 16 year old who is a huge Elon/Tesla fan. He has been trying to convince me to buy a Tesla for years, and his response was too perfect:
It’s self draining it doesn’t need a wheelIf I were you I'd take a couple of screenshots, pop them on a Fracture and stash it for his 21st.
It's self igniting too.
Can anyone explain why the Tesla build quality is so bad compared to established giants?
Cost cutting? Higher US wages? Too little technical know how?
Cost cutting? Higher US wages? Too little technical know how?
> Can anyone explain why the Tesla build quality is so bad compared to established giants?
Because they can? Up until this point Tesla had no real competitors in its segment, it has (had?) a religiously devoted fanbase, and lets face it: their cars out-performed their nearest ICE competitors (luxury sports sedans and SUVs) by a long shot.
Therefore, they could afford to have lower build quality, because electric drive-trains are just so much damn better performing, and their cars in particular sold themselves for years based largely on image and identity.
You only need to test drive a Chevy Bolt to understand how much better even a cheap EV is than most ICEs.
Tesla's poor build quality isn't unprecedented either. Plenty of other niche luxury sports car brands also have been known to have bad build quality and require gobs of maintenance. But people who drive such cars tolerate such things due to the other benefits of the car.
Technically, I think some of this is also because of Tesla's ruthless focus on reducing weight to maximize the range of their vehicles. They remove every last bolt or other metal component they possibly can (which does also lower cost). They have received high praise compared to their competitors by manufacturing optimization experts like Sandy Munro for this.
But I think this approach can have its downsides when it comes to things like this issue, where it was trivial to detach the steering wheel. I don't have any proof that this issue was caused by that approach, but it's pretty plausible.
Because they can? Up until this point Tesla had no real competitors in its segment, it has (had?) a religiously devoted fanbase, and lets face it: their cars out-performed their nearest ICE competitors (luxury sports sedans and SUVs) by a long shot.
Therefore, they could afford to have lower build quality, because electric drive-trains are just so much damn better performing, and their cars in particular sold themselves for years based largely on image and identity.
You only need to test drive a Chevy Bolt to understand how much better even a cheap EV is than most ICEs.
Tesla's poor build quality isn't unprecedented either. Plenty of other niche luxury sports car brands also have been known to have bad build quality and require gobs of maintenance. But people who drive such cars tolerate such things due to the other benefits of the car.
Technically, I think some of this is also because of Tesla's ruthless focus on reducing weight to maximize the range of their vehicles. They remove every last bolt or other metal component they possibly can (which does also lower cost). They have received high praise compared to their competitors by manufacturing optimization experts like Sandy Munro for this.
But I think this approach can have its downsides when it comes to things like this issue, where it was trivial to detach the steering wheel. I don't have any proof that this issue was caused by that approach, but it's pretty plausible.
Always sort of assumed that Musk just has a kind of distain for expertise; it's not like it is a deep dark secret how to do this properly.
I suspect (but know nothing about manufacturing) that 90% of quality is boring, tedious things like quality control checklists, documenting processes, training low-level staff and so on.
Neither of these things strikes me as something Elon Musk would consider time well spent. He's more like, "cybertruck!", "really self-driving this time!", and more recently, running Twitter.
Neither of these things strikes me as something Elon Musk would consider time well spent. He's more like, "cybertruck!", "really self-driving this time!", and more recently, running Twitter.
...and yet somehow he manages to launch and land way more rockets to space vs what NASA has been able to do for the last 50+ years...and at a tiny fraction of the cost.
Guess he really is an idiot.
Guess he really is an idiot.
Well, first, that has nothing in particular to do with mass-producing cars. However, also:
> Rockets from the Falcon 9 family have been launched 204 times over 13 years
(Also Falcon 1 launched five times).
There are multiple _single types_ of US and Soviet rocket which have launched more times than that. Atlas I, for instance, 514 launches. Titan II, 396. Kosmos: 610. Soyuz: _1,964_.
> Rockets from the Falcon 9 family have been launched 204 times over 13 years
(Also Falcon 1 launched five times).
There are multiple _single types_ of US and Soviet rocket which have launched more times than that. Atlas I, for instance, 514 launches. Titan II, 396. Kosmos: 610. Soyuz: _1,964_.
Is it any worse? Or perhaps Tesla is now in the trough of disillusionment stage of the hype cycle, so every bit of negative news is made out to be a big deal.
[deleted]
For perspective, in case the reader has never had need to pull a steering wheel, there is a special tool for the removal of every steering wheel I've ever removed. Because even after you remove the giant-ass nut holding it to the steering column, the steering wheel is (supposed to be) pressed on firmly enough that you will not be removing it by hand. Let alone have the damned thing fall off in your hands. (Exception: if I wiggle hard enough, I can get the steering wheel off our '81 VW camper without a puller.)
In other words, Tesla manufacturing didn't give the nut enough torque at manufacturing time. How that's not automated with a preset gun/wrench/whatever, I have no idea. Or maybe someone just spun the nut on by hand and it never got the wrench.
Oh. I just looked at a video on how to get the steering wheel off. There's just a big Allen bolt holding the steering wheel on, and then the video author simply wiggled the it off the steering column. Man, I'm not so sure I like that, and this story seems to back me up. On the other hand, it could be the video author has a defective Tesla as well, and you really are supposed to need a puller. :-)
In other words, Tesla manufacturing didn't give the nut enough torque at manufacturing time. How that's not automated with a preset gun/wrench/whatever, I have no idea. Or maybe someone just spun the nut on by hand and it never got the wrench.
Oh. I just looked at a video on how to get the steering wheel off. There's just a big Allen bolt holding the steering wheel on, and then the video author simply wiggled the it off the steering column. Man, I'm not so sure I like that, and this story seems to back me up. On the other hand, it could be the video author has a defective Tesla as well, and you really are supposed to need a puller. :-)
>there is a special tool for the removal of every steering wheel I've ever removed.
Diesel engine tech here. Not only is there a special tool, but on most modern vehicles in the last 5-7 years, you have several more nuts to engage as well and a certain direction you need to move the wheel to align it with a pattern before it slides off.
that the nut was absent/loose on this vehicle implies a cascade failure in the manufacturing chain. the electrical team, the FA team, the driveline mechanics, everyone missed this failure at multiple steps or simply ignored it assuming someone else would take care of it. Toyota and Honda remedied this complacency thirty years ago with the line stop/all stop switch. basically its a big red button at your workstation where, if you detect any serious error or failure, you can halt the entire production line which triggers an immediate investigation into the failure condition before it ever reaches the customer. this halt can happen anytime, from the initial subframe assembly to something as insignificant as paint. its a massive amount of power and responsibility these companies entrust to each worker.
Diesel engine tech here. Not only is there a special tool, but on most modern vehicles in the last 5-7 years, you have several more nuts to engage as well and a certain direction you need to move the wheel to align it with a pattern before it slides off.
that the nut was absent/loose on this vehicle implies a cascade failure in the manufacturing chain. the electrical team, the FA team, the driveline mechanics, everyone missed this failure at multiple steps or simply ignored it assuming someone else would take care of it. Toyota and Honda remedied this complacency thirty years ago with the line stop/all stop switch. basically its a big red button at your workstation where, if you detect any serious error or failure, you can halt the entire production line which triggers an immediate investigation into the failure condition before it ever reaches the customer. this halt can happen anytime, from the initial subframe assembly to something as insignificant as paint. its a massive amount of power and responsibility these companies entrust to each worker.
> have several more nuts to engage as well and a certain direction you need to move the wheel to align it with a pattern before it slides off.
If anyone likes this kind of mechanical puzzle-slash-critical safety interlock, check out strong link/weak link systems in nuclear weapons.[1]
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_link/weak_link
If anyone likes this kind of mechanical puzzle-slash-critical safety interlock, check out strong link/weak link systems in nuclear weapons.[1]
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_link/weak_link
...but on most modern vehicles in the last 5-7 years...
Thank you for a more up-to-date perspective. My pro years were 30 years ago, and the only vehicles I work on these days are the ones in my driveway (most of which are over 10 years old).
And here's the video I was referencing, if anyone wants a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuTpEFGqXw4
Thank you for a more up-to-date perspective. My pro years were 30 years ago, and the only vehicles I work on these days are the ones in my driveway (most of which are over 10 years old).
And here's the video I was referencing, if anyone wants a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuTpEFGqXw4
> you can halt the entire production line which triggers an immediate investigation into the failure condition before it ever reaches the customer.
That's extremely impressive! But I gotta wonder: is there ever any soft pressure to just quietly fix the missing/loose bit quickly (if you can) and then not hit the button?
That's extremely impressive! But I gotta wonder: is there ever any soft pressure to just quietly fix the missing/loose bit quickly (if you can) and then not hit the button?
Hopefully the NTSB does its job here.
[deleted]
Nothing says "build quality problems" quite like a car rolling off the assembly line that would fit into a "I Think You Should Leave" skit
Exactly what I thought of, too. Dropping the link here for others.[1]
[1]: https://youtu.be/8YDpvMYk5jA?t=25
[1]: https://youtu.be/8YDpvMYk5jA?t=25
No need for a wheel, its on auto pilot anyways.
You don't need it anyway, it's self-driving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
[Interviewer:] Well, if this wasn’t safe, why did it have 80,000 tonnes of oil on it?
[Senator Collins:] Well, I’m not saying it wasn’t safe, it’s just perhaps not quite as safe as some of the other ones.
[Interviewer:] Why?
[Senator Collins:] Well, some of them are built so the front doesn’t fall off at all.
[Interviewer:] Wasn’t this built so the front wouldn’t fall off?
[Senator Collins:] Well, obviously not.
[Interviewer:] “How do you know?”
[Senator Collins:] Well, ‘cause the front fell off, and 20,000 tons of crude oil spilled into the sea, caught fire. It’s a bit of a give-away.” I would just like to make the point that that is not normal.
[Interviewer:] Well, what sort of standards are these oil tankers built to?
[Senator Collins:] Oh, very rigorous … maritime engineering standards.
[Interviewer:] What sort of things?
[Senator Collins:] Well the front’s not supposed to fall off, for a start.
[Interviewer:] Well, if this wasn’t safe, why did it have 80,000 tonnes of oil on it?
[Senator Collins:] Well, I’m not saying it wasn’t safe, it’s just perhaps not quite as safe as some of the other ones.
[Interviewer:] Why?
[Senator Collins:] Well, some of them are built so the front doesn’t fall off at all.
[Interviewer:] Wasn’t this built so the front wouldn’t fall off?
[Senator Collins:] Well, obviously not.
[Interviewer:] “How do you know?”
[Senator Collins:] Well, ‘cause the front fell off, and 20,000 tons of crude oil spilled into the sea, caught fire. It’s a bit of a give-away.” I would just like to make the point that that is not normal.
[Interviewer:] Well, what sort of standards are these oil tankers built to?
[Senator Collins:] Oh, very rigorous … maritime engineering standards.
[Interviewer:] What sort of things?
[Senator Collins:] Well the front’s not supposed to fall off, for a start.
We're still submitting Tweets as HN stories, huh?
HN guidelines require to submit the original source which in this case happens to be Twitter.
Why is this on HN?
Someone's family was nearly killed due to a defect in a product made by one of the largest technology companies of our time. It seems very Hacker News worthy to me.
Is this related to the fact that it's a large and uniquely technology oriented company though? I get stories about autopilot defects making it to HN, but there is nothing unique to Tesla or deeply technological about a mechanical defect found in multiple car brands.
Because Elon Man Bad and we need to drive Tesla stock prices down.
I don't have a dog in this race as I don't care about twitter and I don't drive an EV - this kind of activity to sully one's name always struck me as organized vindictiveness for financial and social reasons. It all just seems so artificial.
I don't have a dog in this race as I don't care about twitter and I don't drive an EV - this kind of activity to sully one's name always struck me as organized vindictiveness for financial and social reasons. It all just seems so artificial.
I wonder what the job title is of the Tesla employee searching the car's log data right now, trying to find something with which to smear the author of the tweet.
> Payment Due: $103.96
Not only exceptional build quality, but such customer service to boot!
trash
Not only exceptional build quality, but such customer service to boot!
trash
I was a Tesla skeptic for years, then I rented a Model 3 on Turo about a year after it was first released, and was hugely impressed. It really is a fantastic car by any standard: quiet, smooth, powerful, precise steering and good handling, etc. I thought the center screen and overall control scheme was innovative and a thoughtful way to keep costs down, and I was impressed by some of the other innovative tech (no analog fuses, etc.) I bought one and was super happy with it for three years, then sold it during the pandemic.
But I don't know what has happened to Tesla since then. The Model Y is nice, but just a slightly inflated Model 3. The Model S and Model X refreshes are unimpressive and the basic design of those cars is over a decade old now.
The Tesla Roadster never shipped, despite them taking $50k deposits on them. They've only "delivered" a few hand-made Semis. The Cybertruck is a joke and apparently vaporware. "FSD" is technically impressive but nowhere near usable and probably has no path to ever get there.
I think Musk pulled together a really impressive team and probably managed to burn them all out or scare them all off to get the Model 3 shipped, and they're just coasting since then.
But I don't know what has happened to Tesla since then. The Model Y is nice, but just a slightly inflated Model 3. The Model S and Model X refreshes are unimpressive and the basic design of those cars is over a decade old now.
The Tesla Roadster never shipped, despite them taking $50k deposits on them. They've only "delivered" a few hand-made Semis. The Cybertruck is a joke and apparently vaporware. "FSD" is technically impressive but nowhere near usable and probably has no path to ever get there.
I think Musk pulled together a really impressive team and probably managed to burn them all out or scare them all off to get the Model 3 shipped, and they're just coasting since then.
If you're impressed by Tesla then you've only been driving sh*tboxes. Their quality of materials, and fit-and-finish, is utter garbage. A late 80's Ford Taurus was better.
A car can be impressive in ways other than materials and fit-and-finish. I agree this is an area of weakness for Tesla.
I had a Renault Clio (bought new) where the steering cut out on the motorway. Not just the power steering dead but also the steering lock on. Luckily it was daytime, quiet and on a long straight stretch. I was able to disengage the clutch and the handbreak (and breaks which worked but not well). Pulled the key out + on again and it unlocked.
Happened twice in our journey, the second time I was driving very defensively (leaving lots of space and not changing lane) and reacted quickly.
It was the first and last French-made car I've owned.
Then there was the VW Polo I had whose main brakes failed coming off of the motorway. That was crazy scary, had to use a combination of the handbreak and going off-road to stop in time.
Happened twice in our journey, the second time I was driving very defensively (leaving lots of space and not changing lane) and reacted quickly.
It was the first and last French-made car I've owned.
Then there was the VW Polo I had whose main brakes failed coming off of the motorway. That was crazy scary, had to use a combination of the handbreak and going off-road to stop in time.
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That response from the service centre is the chefs kiss. "Why have you sent this Tesla in for service?"
> Ford is recalling 1.4 million vehicles because the steering wheels can become loose and even come off while driving.
> The automaker says it is aware of two accidents and one injury that may have been caused by the problem.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/03/14/news/companies/ford-steerin...
> Rivian recalls all of its vehicles for steering wheel troubles
https://www.pocnetwork.net/technology-news/rivian-recalls-al...
etc...
Of course steering wheels shouldn't fall off. But the comments here are already full of people under the impression that this incident proves Tesla is uniquely bad, and it's just silly. A few seconds Googling will tell you that most carmakers have had either isolated incidents or even widespread recalls of steering wheels that can fall off, or very similar problems such as the wheel disconnecting from the steering mechanism. Just on the front page of Google results I also see Mercedes and GM and Toyota. Turns out perfection in manufacturing hasn't been achieved yet, by anyone.